Decoding Summer Dressing—Silk Scarves, Flip Flops, and Grown Women In Baby Tees

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. I'm very excited to have with me in the studio senior fashion News Editor, Laia Garcia-Furtado, and fashion writer, Hannah Jackson. Thank you both for being here. Thanks for having us. This is exciting. This is a new combo. We haven't had this combo on before. A new menage a trois. We are talking about summer trends. And when this came up, my first thought was shirtless men. I don't know if it's because it's so hot and humid in New York this summer, but it feels like guys are taking it off. It's because they're all bulked up from protein. They're showing off their gains.

0:43All the protein. Protein chic. As Jose said recently, men just discovered triceps. So we're showing off the gains. Yeah. Which, yeah. Which makes, I mean, I'm not, I guess I haven't seen, as long as I don't see a shirtless man on the subway, I'm fine. Like, I feel like if you're in the street. Time and a place. Yeah, like if you're running, if you just got done running, I'm not going to buy an eyelash, but you got to put a shirt on on the train. So I haven't seen that yet. So that's good. There are limits to this trend. Yeah, I agree. I have seen a lot of people wearing shorts and cowboy boots or shorts and heavy or young women rather, really short shorts and chunky boots, which I think is very like, I don't know, your feet are boiling in those leather boots.

1:28It does look cool, though. But they're not going into nasty puddles, which there sometimes are in the city. It does look cool, though. It's very cool. I think it's a great look. You have to absolutely commit, though. And you're like questioning at every moment, but you look fabulous. And your legs are just... You've got a great tan line. Yeah. Oh, that too. That's a crazy... Yeah, that's a farmer's cowboy? City cowboy tan? It's not a farmer's tan. Anyway, yeah. Part of this Summer Trend conversation is inspired by your column, Laia. You were here back in May, and we took some questions from listeners.

2:04First of all, tell us what your column is called and what you do there. The column is called Addressed and we address. You're welcome. You know, style queries. It's kind of it's a style advice column, but I think I like to think of it also as like a conversation. Like I think a lot of we we have done a lot of questions from viewers, but also it's been like, oh, I've seen a lot of pajamas on the runway. Like I kind of want to try that. So I'm trying to also do it more like let's chat about things that we're seeing and how we can put them in our put them in our wardrobes or not and stuff. You know, like it's really it's like it's a chat.

2:44One of the things we've been seeing, obviously, because it's so dang hot, are fans. Fans. You devoted a whole column to the right kind of fan. Yeah. What's the right fan for you? I like a classic foldable fan. Mine has a Puerto Rican flag, of course. Of course. But, you know, Jose has a – I want to say that he sort of championed the – not electric because it's a battery-operated portable fan two years ago. Before everyone started carrying them. Yeah, that's a Jose. It was like him and Naomi Campbell, which is like name of my iconic duo. Do you have a fan, Hannah? Which one do you prefer? I do.

3:21It's in my bag right now, and I brought it out salsa dancing last weekend, and it was a hit because it was so hot. Everyone was asking to borrow it, not to brag. I do a foldable fan. I think it's just much more chic. But I will say I started at Vogue two years ago during Fashion Week, and I was like, who is this genius who brought the electric fan? And now I know Jose is a genius in every other sense. And my young nephews are carrying these little handheld fans now, so Jose's influence spreads far and wide. Another subject you took up is bathing suits on dry land, bathing suits off the beach. And I feel a little mixed about this.

4:02What about you? I honestly can't do it myself. First of all, where did you get the idea? So on the RLE runway, which in the latest Men's War Collection in Paris, it was all like chic two-piece bathing suits with like a chunky boot or a jacket. And it was a show that, I mean, every single look, It was a co-ed show. It was styled so amazing. And it's the kind of show that you're like, wait, I need to dress like this. And it was funny because I would never wear a swimsuit out in dry land. But it was done so well that I was intrigued. And then Tory Burch did it two seasons ago when Mew Mew had done it.

4:39I think it's cute if the Gen Z girlies want to do it and look cute doing it. But I feel like I just feel like you're wearing a swimsuit with jeans. Like I can't. Can you do it, Hannah? As a Gen Z, I feel like I cannot do a one piece, but I also have like a stupidly long torso. So that's just a me problem. But I don't know. I could maybe do a bikini top like layered. Absolutely not on its own. But I could imagine it like the Heim sisters do a very cute bikini top thing with like leather pants. I don't know if I would do that in the summer, but I could do it maybe layered with like a button down or like a crocheted like open knit kind of top.

5:19I think that'd be fun. Yeah, like I feel like it's like if you're on vacation, you can definitely, you know, do the two peas with a crochet or with a sheer kind of thing. But just, yeah, you're not going to. It's just like I feel like you need to have a body of water nearby. Like I feel like that's why it wouldn't work in New York because it's like, why am I wearing a swimsuit? I'm just. Well, you're headed to lap swim. Wow. Or you're coming from lap swim. Or I'm going to the park with my three-year-old and I'm going to be like, yes, let's go into the water, the fountain. Yeah, let's go in the fountain.

5:50You're prepared for any circumstances. It's like the Friends intro, yes. Yeah. The reason you couldn't do it at the Vogue offices is because it's notoriously freezing. It is. Which is, you know, it's because offices are kept at temperature for men. Yes. That's why it's always so cold in the office. Even worse when you go up to our cafeteria floor because it's like, you know, there are some real suits up there. And I'm like, it is 50 degrees. Yeah, the cafeteria is pretty sick. We're on ice. It's awful. You've got to get a hot soup when you're up there. Oh, my God. What is the strategy? Because this is not just a Vogue or a Condé Nast problem.

6:24It's an office work problem. You're sweating until you get to the office and then you catch a chill. Yeah. I mean, I think it's obvious in a way. It's like keep a sweater. But I think like some people do a blanket, keep a sweater that you can drape over your shoulders or, you know, carry a jacket in your bag. But I think it's also like you can do layer clothes like you can wear a tank top when you're on the train so that you can just sweat and be disgusting and then bring a shirt to put on when you get to the office. So you're dressed for the office and you also don't are not walking around looking like you just got drenched before you came in.

7:07I mean, scarves, which are big now, you can also keep a scarf or. Oh, my God, I just forgot the name. Oh, a pashmina, you know, like bring back the pashmina. I have one of my dad. There you go. Pashmina. Yeah, it's so chic. But scarves, which like a couple of weeks ago, I was like, oh, my God, why am I so into tying? scarf around my hips and Hannah was like me too and then Hannah wrote about it Dries Van Noten right it was right before the Dries yeah it was right before the Dries menswear show yeah I feel like it's been happening kind of organically just in street style um our our colleague across the pond Anna Kofola is also a fan so international trend breaking um but it's really picked up with celebrities recently and I think you know we saw um Kylie did it yeah Kylie was on vacation and I want to say like Tuscany or something and did it with a cute little matching swimsuit top it kind of looked poochy I'm not sure I haven't been able to find it but I think it might have been Roberto Cavalli for skims that's a great shout but the girls have been loving like a fun kind of psychedelic print lately Hayley Bieber also opting for a poochy bikini but yeah Kylie did it Jennifer Lawrence just did it the other day she like dressed up a little t-shirt and trousers with a little scarf across her hips and it looked very chic I love it I think this is going to be this is actually my prediction that it's going to be the big trend for the spring shows I totally agree in September the sarong it's going to be that layering without pants underneath it I think it can be go either way I think it's actually it will be with with pants and I think it's very um you know i think drees is definitely like i knew when julian was named i knew because it's like you know does a new designer gets named he goes into the archives and like what are the drees early collections it's like fabrics and layering and and that's what he did um and so i feel like he's gonna go stronger into it because the menswear show was so so good and i think all like women want to wear all of those clothes.

9:18So I think everyone's going to be wearing a little sarong, an oversized scarf, tie it around, tie it around anywhere. Yeah, and you could do it over your head too. Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. That's been a big trend. Men too. Yeah. Timmy Chalamet. Oh, over the baseball cap. Over the baseball cap. Bad Bunny has been doing it for a long time. Yeah, it's true. And ASAP Rocky, of course. But I think, you know, it's just a great way to make use of what you have in your closet. Like you cannot wear a scarf around your neck when it's a thousand degrees and like a hundred percent humidity, but you don't want to only save these like nice pieces for winter.

9:47Yeah. And sometimes you do need, I feel like the thing about a scarf too, it's like if you're wearing regular jeans and a t-shirt, you tie a scarf on and suddenly you're like, ooh, it's a look. I'm wearing an outfit. Yeah. And it's like the least effort involved in it. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought up scarves around the head because I also wanted to talk about summer headgear. I have to admit that I was the person that asked for some advice because baseball caps are too bro-y. And I don't really like a bucket hat, but I know you're a big bucket hat. Yeah, I love hats. I do love a bucket hat.

10:20I do have, I think baseball caps, it depends on the hair. Like I feel like if I have long hair, I can wear it when I had short hair. I was looking like a little egg. Yeah, I have a round, we're in the round face club, I feel like. You do have more cheekbones than I do. But there are so many good hats that like Prada did all of the crazy. Like, I feel like you could do an oversized bucket, like, commit or go, which I think is very you, actually. Like, I pulled up those Patagonia, like, cool hiking because I feel like you're actually very practical. Like, Nicole goes on vacation in nature. Oh, I remember.

10:55She's like, I won't be found. And then she posts these beautiful pictures of, like, mountains and sunsets. So it's like she doesn't, like, the Prada thing is for fun, but she has no use for that. I'm like, here are some good Patagonia cool hats that we'll actually wear. Yeah, you're practical. We do have an REI version of that. Yeah, that's why they're so good. So that's why I put the Prada one in for fun, but I was like, well, this is actually what Nicole wants. You know who this is for.

11:22More on summer trends after the break. Thank you.

11:55well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

12:09So shorts are a summertime thing. What is the short length of the season, Hannah? I mean, I feel like shorty shorts, I think, have been having such a moment, especially for men. But I feel like we've really been seeing a variety of gym short lengths. We have Emily Ratajkowski doing the Adam Sandler, like, oversized baggy gym shorts with a tube top, which is a kind of fun mix. And then, you know, there's Zoe Kravitz, who's wearing a pair of very small shorts with, like, a little chic Saint Laurent bag. Dolphin shorts. Yeah, exactly. So I feel like people have been kind of mixing. And I feel like this has been going on for a long time, but I think it's kind of starting to hit, like, the celebrity style wave where it's like, you know, you can wear it with a fun little blouse and like a pair of Mary Janes or you could, you know, go a little sexy and wear a tube top or something kind of slinky, but you're dressing it down with like these pants I wore to go, you know, run on the treadmill.

13:07Yeah, I do love the, I love the idea of men in short shorts and girls in new metal below the knee Adam Sandler shorts. Like, I think that's the perfect combo because men should be showing off their quads also because they're hitting the gym. I know. All these. Listen, it's protein maxing. Paul Mezcal. He's a pioneer, frankly. We really. He's ahead of his time. He should be commended. Thank you, sir. For the little shorts. But yeah, also Zoe Kravitz is so good at wearing shorts, which is a crazy thing. But also when I did like the Lollapalooza festival dressing, I was like, why does she look so good in these shorts and like a random red T-shirt?

13:47I mean, it's because she's cool. So I guess that's the mystery. That's the mystery of that. Solved. Be really cool. Yeah, be cool. Laya, you used a word this morning that I have to say is a little bit like nails on chalkboard for me. like the Jaws scene where Quint is you know running his hands on the finger capris oh yeah I haven't worn capris since the 80s so why are we seeing capris come back I did wear capris in the 90s because everybody wore capris because Gap made them basically I feel like the capris have been floating around we have all pretending we do not see it like the meme but But they've been there.

14:34And then last week, Emily Ratajkowski was spotted in two different events wearing very, I mean, they're leggings, but they're Norma Kamali capris. And she looked so cool. Yeah, she wore this very cool, like, oversized slouchy, boaty baseball tee. Which is also a thing that I think is cool. Like, you know, the ringer baseball tee. Anyway, continue. Love. And then she's been doing press for that new Lena Dunham show too much. And then she changed into an Emily Dawn Long kind of like. Fitted blazer. Fitted blazer like off the shirt like very, very close to being off the shoulder. A lot of collarbone with these beautiful ceramic buttons.

15:20Both with Capri's. I'm like get you a pant that can do both I suppose. I was so sold. What's the right shoe for Capri's? I think. Go ahead. But I realized so that I think. Should we say it on three? I think the shoe is actually what can make, like, it's the shoe that makes the capri, not the other way around. Totally. I think you need a little, like, mule or a kitten heel. Because here's what I think, though, is, like, you're cutting off your line of your leg if you're wearing capris. And I personally am just, like, not into that, but to each their own. But I think if you're cutting off your line, you need to elongate your leg.

15:58And then if you're wearing mules or kitten heels or something, you're at least extending below the knee. I think it's a mule, like a sandal mule, something kind of. It's very, you know what it is? It's very like Peg Bundy. Like I feel like she wore, you know. Married with children. From Married with Children in the 80s. For the kids out there. For all of the. And she wore a lot of like peplums with those leggings and like a pinup Barbie kind of mule. Like I feel like that's the vibe. I have a pair of capris that I bought last year. They're cotton eyelet. And I have every time I wear them, I'm like, I don't know.

16:37And I think it's because of the shoe because I can't wear my usual ugly little shoes because it needs to be like. You need a dainty, cute little. Yeah, it needs to be femme. I think if you're also like showing off that part of your leg, it's nice to show off your calf muscles and your, you know, your shoe is going to do that if it has a heel. But you can do a ballet flat, but not an ugly, not like a non-shoe shoe that cuts. It needs to be like a proper ballet flat that shows off your toe cleavage, like very Brigitte Bardot. Do you think you could do a tabby? Some people could. It would be really cool.

17:15Cool people could. It all goes back to that. Yeah. Zoe Kravitz could definitely do it. I feel like if you get classic Rapeto, we're both Rapeto girlies. Yeah, Rapeto girlies. A classic Rapeto flat. Yeah. A nice little block heel. Yeah. And yeah, or like a baby tee. A grown woman in a baby tee. Shout out, man of the year, Lord. Yeah, I think like you can do it. But I think for work, hard. And I don't know that I've unlocked that yet. I think you could do, I don't know, as a Capri hater, I think maybe for work you could do like below the calf. Or calf length, you know, not just like straight below the knee.

17:51Yeah, I think it's more that the capri that's cool, it is kind of like a legging. Yeah. Because once you start going away from the body and the legs start growing, you're entering different territory. I will say, though, like the pantaloon trend, I'm into it. Like those Chloe, billowing bloomers. But like the long ones. Maya was on that trend so fast. Oh, I believe it. Can you wear that to work? Sure you can. I'm here. You could tie a scarf around. Yeah. It all comes back. Two in one, baby. That's called trend maxing. Yes. I tried to use that in a headline, and I was swiftly shot down. Okay, we're going to bring it back.

18:32Let's try it. Trend maxing. We get absolutely no clicks. More trends for your—how many trends can you wear at once? Challenge? There's an address. That's an address. All right. Some summer conundrums. Flip-flops or not? Be careful because I'm wearing flip-flops right now. I was going to I actually I'm not against flip flops. I think it's a woman's right to choose. Kill me. Because my my personal fear with wearing a flip flop is I always for some reason imagine that I'm getting on the train and the train door is closing on my toe. Like that's truly the only reason why I, Laya Garcia, do not wear a flip flop because they look very cool with outfits.

19:16I have a pair of Javallana's at home that I wear around the house. and every time, like, I get dressed and I'm wearing my little Havaianas, and every single morning I'm like, what if I just left the house in these? But I don't. They feel like an inside shoe to me. Yeah. That's fair. But you love them. I do. I do love an open toe. Do yours have a little heel or a flat? No, mine are flat. I'm really, like, not crazy about the, like, thong heel. I just, it's not for me, and that's okay. It's for whoever wants it. But, no, I'm pro flip-flop. I do think you're kind of tempting fate in a certain regard, but, you know.

19:52You know what's the worst? When you have a flip-flop on and someone steps on the back of it as you're walking down the street. But I feel like if you live in a suburban area, this is, like, if you spend your life, house, car, office, car, home, flip-flop is totally fine. Like, I think to me, my big fear is really related to public transportation. And that's fair. I think I'm more afraid of like people stepping on my toes on the subway than it closing on my foot. But now you've like unlocked a new fear for me. I did just see in one, I think it was an REI or another one of the sporty Gorpcore real brands.

20:30They do make a flip-flop that covers your big toe. I don't know about that. And it's so ugly. So, you know, I was like, do I need it? So I'll report back. Stay tuned. There's an I tried it. It's kind of, it's cool looking though. I could get behind that. Like if Phoebe Philo did it, people would be like, oh my God. So. I kind of am like show all your toes or show nothing at all. Oh, okay. But I can see the like aesthetic value of a very ugly shoe. Yeah. Thank you for seeing me. You're welcome.

21:10More on what to wear this summer after a quick break.

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21:59Other sandals you're feeling or not feeling summer 2025? Anne Hathaway just wore a pair of very chunky dad Chanel sneakers today on the set of The Devil Wears Prada 2. You are on it, Hannah Jackson. Oh, my God. Am I just refreshing back for it every five seconds of my life? But, no, she's trading in those Chanel boots for her Chanel sandals, and we'll see if they make it on screen. I somehow doubt that very much. But, you know, if you want a Velcro strap, Anne Hathaway has— We love a Velcro strap. Very Prada. 90s Prada. Yeah. I have a theory, though, about Velcro, which is it doesn't agree with humidity.

22:41I have a pair of great Dries Van Noten Velcro closure sandals. And in the summer when it's particularly hot and humid, it doesn't. Oh, really? They come undone, which is almost as bad as getting your foot. Yeah. We're going to need some. I was going to say the other sandal that I really love is the Dries sort of Japanese-ish inspired 90s sandals that they have. They've been doing it for a couple of seasons, but this season they have a pair in the shiniest red lacquer I've ever seen. And it is so sexy. Thankfully, I went into the store. You know, when you go to a store and you're, like, really tempted because their store in Soho is so beautiful and you're, like, everything is so beautiful.

23:25Like, yeah, I could totally be a person that shops here. And I was like, do they have these in my size? She was like, no. And I was like, thank God. Because I was so going to buy them because I was, like, it was so mothed to a flame where I was, like, shiny. So those are also mine. But let's investigate the Velcro. You know what else is happening right now is those Teva Infinities, I think they're called. but you know kind of going back to that like real shoe brand it oh I know which ones those are yeah they're kind of like lace up you like slip your foot in they're very utilitarian but they're having a moment right now because Mary Kate Olsen wore them like two years ago and I think people like just recirculated the image and now they're crazy I have a pair myself they look really cool my friend has a pair they're very cool they're$42 they're so affordable like you know if you can't buy the row buy these$42 divas which like but you know it's like that's who they are too which I love they'll like wear a shoe like we'll see a version of that in two years and I respect that but they'll probably make the flip-flop with the thumb the thumb the big toe covering you know so get it now so that you can be like yeah yeah I had it when it was$42 and not a thousand another fun uh column you did recently was styling band tees making band tees office appropriate how is it done um I think you just have to like tuck them in, tuck them in a pant, make sure they're not super raggedy, make sure they don't say a cuss word, which happened to me once.

24:55Well, I have this Spaceman 3 shirt, and on the front it just says Spaceman 3, so I put it on, blah, blah, blah, with like a pencil skirt, which I wear all the time, and like my little flat. And then after I got to the office, I realized that on the back it says like, for all the effed up children in the world. And I was like, okay. Okay, well, I'm just going to walk sort of with my back against the wall for the entire day. But, yeah, I feel it's like if you wear a proper pant or a proper skirt, whatever that means for you, or a proper whatever bottom, and your shirt is in good condition, then you can just wear it.

25:28Or put a blazer over it. Put a blazer over it. But, yeah, it's like my, you know, your favorite white T-shirt can just be your favorite band T-shirt. Do you feel like you have to kind of not overcompensate with your styling but like go more formal if you're doing something like a band tee? A little bit. Sometimes I want to be like a little bit more put together. Like I could wear it with a sneaker out to the world but not like maybe not to the office. Yeah. Unless I'm trying to be more. But yeah. With like a fancy skirt or a good pant. Like Nicole wears like a lot of like tailored jeans I feel like and it looks cool.

26:00Yeah. We are weeks away from the moment when the September issue drops. I remember the September issue coming to the mailbox way back in my high school years, and it was the best because there's nothing like a big September issue. It also means that all of the clothes for fall are starting to arrive in stores. So I know we're talking about summer, but when you think about fall, is there something or some things that you really would like to try? I can't even remember what happened in fall. I don't even remember yesterday. Oh, yeah. I love the granny trend, the senora trend, which because it's already how I dress, those like skirts in the middle of nowhere and like boxy suits.

26:50Yeah. But right now the things that are occupying my brain the most are the Dries Van Noon show and also the Michael Ryder's Celine show. Oh, yeah. You know what? Yeah. Just a new use for the scarf. Yeah. Kind of a nice little ascot. That'll be fun. A good blazer. Yeah. I appreciate like the kind of balloon pant silhouette. You love a balloon pant. Do I? Maybe you have to try. You brought it up. Isn't a balloon the same as a pantaloon? That's kind of true. I am trying to work on a piece right now how I want to dress like a haunted doll. And I feel like you can carry that into fall with like some, you know, pantaloons.