Demna's Appointment Ushers In a New Era for Gucci

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. And the creative director shakeups, musical chairs continue, although I think we should call it artistic director in this case because Demna was announced as the new artistic director of Gucci. And that's not the only thing that happened today. Versace is getting a new chief creative officer. His name is Dario Vitale. And that means that Donatella Versace is moving into the role of chief brand ambassador after nearly three decades designing Versace. We are here to talk about what this means for Versace, what will happen to Balenciaga after Demna's departure.

0:40He is doing the Couture Show in July and why all of these shakeups are happening now. There is so much to discuss. I'm joined today by Vogue's global head of fashion network, Virginia Smith, and creative editorial director, Mark Waducci. Welcome. Thanks, Nicole. Nicole, I was ready for like, you know, a quiet weekend after being on the road for quite some time. And that is not the case. This is our first emergency podcast meeting. Can't fashion sleep for a weekend? Apparently not. Yes, we've been working for a month solid. So waking up to this news was overwhelming. But thanks to our colleagues at Vogue Business in London, we have a five-hour advantage.

1:26And, you know, just bless them. I bless them right now. Yeah, thank God for them. Let's start with the Gucci news. We announced that Demna was appointed the new artistic director following Sabato de Sarno. And Demna, as we all know, was the creative director of Balenciaga for almost 10 years. He also founded Vet Mall. And I am curious to hear from you why you think Gucci CEO Stefano Cantino and Kering's deputy CEO in charge of brand development, Francesca Bellatini, chose him. Well, actually, on this here pod, just a couple of weeks ago, Chloe and I were talking with Hari Neff, and we were talking about how fashion seems like it's ready for, I think Hari said, let's give birth to something, like a new moment, a new idea that really affects how we think about fashion, not just how we dress, but also how we approach things.

2:21and we were talking about Alessandro. And then we were saying that the last time that feels like that really happened may have been when Demna debuted at Balenciaga, that the shoulders went out to here and the idea of dressing wealthy people as if they weren't, this idea was very subversive at the time and really shook things up. So the idea that just a couple weeks later that we're talking about Demna filling that vacancy that, you know, there has been another designer there as well. But it has some sort of synchronicity. And, you know, I think that that moment in, I think it was 2016, fall 2016, was his first Balenciaga collection.

3:09You still remember that red puffer, right? That red puffer is still being sold at Balenciaga. You know, it's like a perennial favorite for everyone. But you do, I mean, and interestingly enough, I was sitting right next to Alessandro Michele at that show. No way. Yeah. It was very funny how those worlds were colliding. But I agree, Mark. I think he's an incredible, I mean, in hindsight, he seems like a very obvious choice, but it wasn't really one of the names people were talking about over and over again, at least in most circles. So, but, you know, Dimna's always had a way of looking at culture in a very interesting way.

3:48And he's very much at the zeitgeist of what's going on. And I think they probably recognize that and want that for Gucci. And it really does seem like it could be a very, very exciting fit for the two of them. Yeah, you know, one thing about a Balenciaga show is that it's one of the most exciting shows of the season, always. The ideas that are there. I mean, I remember the one that sticks out in my mind most was the one where we were on the red carpet, where we were inside the theater and projected inside the theater was the red carpet that was the arrivals for the show. And that was the show.

4:23Just the idea of subverting this idea of what a fashion show even is, like if he brings those kinds of ideas to his shows as well as his campaigns and the way Gucci will show up in the world as well as to the clothes, whether they are similar to what he's done for Balenciaga or not, I'm just really excited to see what that is. Yeah. Reading Francesca Bellatini's quote in the press release makes me think that they identified him not just because he is a real designer's designer and a guy who drapes on the form and can magic these incredible shapes, but also because he does have such a fabulous sense of like a dramatic moment.

5:08She said Demna's profound understanding of contemporary culture, coupled with his extensive experience in conceiving visionary projects, has established him as one of the most influential and accomplished creatives of his generation. So I guess we have some pretty big Gucci shows to look forward to. It's a big shift, obviously, from what they've been up to with Sabato di Sarno. Sabato was perhaps an experiment in quiet luxury for Gucci and an extension of what an Italian version of that phenomenon could look like. And Demna, who knows what he will bring, but almost certainly it won't be that. Yes, I do think this we should dig into a little bit because as we've already mentioned, that first Balenciaga show was so silhouette shifting.

5:58Suddenly we all wanted a parka that, you know, didn't quite go over our shoulders or the jacket, the tailored jacket with a little bit of hip. Which you still see, by the way. Oh, yes. And I mean, I still think that is one of the best collections of the last decade. But he had this show a few days ago in Paris, and it was quite different. Backstage, he was talking about standards. Our colleague Sam Hine at GQ called it normie clothes. And so I just wonder, what do you think he's going to give us? Do you have any predictions? I don't think it's something we've seen from him before. I would think it would be a new vision from him if I had to sort of guess.

6:42You know, it almost seemed like, looking back at that Balenciaga show, it almost seemed like a little bit of a bookend to, you know, he obviously knew it was going to be his last one or almost his last ready-to-wear. I guess couture is really a different thing for him probably. But in looking at it, you know, it was so sort of quote-unquote normal, as we say. But I don't think that's what we'll see from him at Gucci. I think it's sort of an ending collection from him, and he'll start something new. I love that idea. I hope you're right. You know, Gucci is at least four, maybe five times the size of Balenciaga as a business.

7:22And so Balenciaga is quite a focused idea. His Balenciaga is quite a focused idea. And to imagine what his Gucci would be also means that it would have to be something that has a broader market, too. So that'll be very interesting. Whatever Alessandro was able to grow Gucci from a smaller company into that because that maximalist aesthetic had so many ways to put it together, so many ways to take it apart. And it'll be really interesting to see how Demna's brilliant mind that all comes together. I also think it's worth noting that Caring really believes in Demna because it's not so long ago that Balenciaga went through a quite traumatic scandal around some of its advertising.

8:12And so to put this faith in Demna to take the biggest job that they have in their stable is pretty inspiring, I think. All right. Another big question. What happens to Balenciaga now that Demna is leaving? I personally like Nicola de Felice for this job. He is the designer at Courreges, which is owned by Artemis, which is in the Caring family. And he's a real designer, a real designer's designer like Demna. He drapes on the form. He does a lot with very little, these geometric shapes that turn into these really sexy pieces. But who do you guys like? And his shows, too. And his shows are incredible.

8:56That confetti this season was so joyful and so happy-making. It was fabulous. And so simple. So simple, and it was so memorable. That's a good idea, Nicole, I have to say. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, I like that one. I mean, I haven't thought about it so much in the last 10 minutes.

9:15But I do think that's a great idea, actually. If they, you know, want to keep it in the family, which they seem to want to do at this moment. Let's ship that.

9:29We're going to take a quick break. When we're back, a new chief creative officer at Versace.

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10:20All right, we are going to switch gears and talk about Donatella. This is a really history-making moment in fashion, as we know. Donatella took over at the house of Versace after her brother's horrific murder in 1997. So that means she has been at the top for nearly 30 years at that brand. It is a lifetime. And so what do you see as Donatella's biggest accomplishments? What in your memory of these last 30 or so years really sticks out for you about what she's done there? Oh, God. I mean, I feel like there's been so many Versace moments. I mean, obviously, the recent J-Lo one was amazing. The initial J-Lo one was amazing, where she basically invented Google image search.

11:11I mean, incredible. And then the return of the supermodels was really probably sparked by Donatella. I mean, she's just had an incredible tenure at her family's business, basically. And the thing that makes me feel good about this transition is that I feel, I mean, I don't know this. I'm just assuming this. But it seems like that a lot of people wanted that job and wanted that role, I'm sure. And other people have been rumored to have been in talks with her over the years. But she clearly took her time in choosing someone that she felt was really, I mean, this must be so important to her on so many different levels.

11:53on a personal level, on a business level. And it seems like, you know, unlike other transitions that have happened to other brands, this one seems like something that everyone was involved in and wanted to have happen. And that makes me feel very good about what's next for the future of Versace. I don't know Dario very well, but obviously he's had a ton of experience. He's been, you know, so... This is Dario Vitale, the guy who is the new chief creative officer. Yes. I mean, you know, he's been a bit behind the scenes, but I sort of love that, you know, that of all the people who wanted this role, that's who she chose.

12:31And, you know, he has been behind the scenes in a very, very influential way. So, I don't know. It feels like a really nice— Graceful. Graceful, yeah. I don't know. It makes me feel good about Versace and how it happened. Yeah. I mean, she is—she's iconic. You know, there are people who are, you know, some of the young designers that we're talking about maybe taking over some of these houses who don't know fashion without Donatella Versace, you know. And I was really touched by her quote. She said, it's been the greatest honor of my life to carry on my brother Johnny's legacy. He was the true genius, but I hope I have some of his spirit and tenacity.

13:16and that is the humility that's baked into that, you know, from which that comes is so beautiful and maybe too extreme. You think about, you know, this is a woman who has a Lady Gaga song named after her. This is a woman who, she almost doesn't give herself enough credit. She can't believe, I think, sometimes how important she is for people in fashion and even outside of fashion. And so many dresses beyond the famous J. Lo dress. Let's not forget that the famous Angelina Jolie leg sticking out on the red carpet was in an Atelier Versace gown. The other thing, of course, is that she is one of few women who have had, especially going back to the 90s, a brand with her name on it that she ran and whose image she really embodied.

14:14Of course, Johnny started that company, but when you think of Versace now, you think of Donatella. And she is synonymous with that. And that alone is really an accomplishment to think about what she's built, especially in a kind of machismo culture. You know, the other thing to say is that, of course, Donatella is, her role is changing, but she's not leaving her own company. And she is the chief brand ambassador, which is something she always, of course, has been. There's no one who could be more Versace than Donatella Versace. And so, in a way, it also opens up this idea of what else is she going to do?

14:52You know, like, what could she do with maybe more time on her hands to go be Versace in other ways? We'll be watching. So what do we know about Dario Vitale? He is a young guy, 42, I think, and born near Naples and studied in Milan at the Instituto Marangoni before going to D-squared for a year. And then he landed at Miu Miu and really, really made his mark there. But that's all we know, right? Right? That's all we know. But I look forward to knowing more. I think that is really interesting that we don't know him so well, you know, and I find that that's sort of great. You were saying earlier that you like the idea of somebody making it big who has really toiled behind the scenes for a long time.

15:47We're sort of seeing a revival of that behind-the-scenes talent getting bigger jobs with Michael Ryder at Celine, Julian Klassner at Dries, and now with Dario. And it's nice to see that people who've really put in, you know, the time, the experience are being rewarded with these roles. It's really different than the wonder kind hiring, you know, when Alexander Wang went to Blenciaga or something where a kind of hot shot kid gets the job or someone from outside the fashion world is getting the job. These are really important roles that are going to people who have worked in the background for 20 years.

16:26Yeah, agreed. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

17:04Today was a very big day in fashion news, and it might not be the last very big day in the coming weeks or months. There's another job being talked about. It's the worst kept secret in the industry. Why are we in this moment of such great and profound change with designer hires, do you think? I mean, why is hard to say, but I think that there are so many prognostications about what all of this means, where we'll be in a year. And I kind of think anyone who makes grand statements is saying too much. and that when we think about Gucci, actually, and you think about what Alessandro was able to accomplish there and how much that company grew both from a financial but even just a creative landscape point of view, I think it's kind of exciting to think that maybe some of these companies that we think of as smaller propositions could end up being some of the big players.

18:13and it's all up in the air, which is nothing if not really exciting. Who knows? We were talking about that big idea and where it's going to come from. And I think right now we feel like it could come from anywhere. I also think there's something, like some really talented designers are getting these roles, which is wonderful to see. And I think, you know, Demna going to Gucci and others, this is giving them, it's like you're starting with a clean slate and the world is your oyster. There's so much possibility. And I think that must feel amazing as a designer. Like you can start from scratch. And that is a freedom that doesn't happen that often.

18:51So to have all these new roles with, you know, very talented designers starting a new chapter in that brand's legacy is amazing. It's like the first day of school. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's going to be, you know, really an incredible thing to witness. witness. And for journalists to follow. Yes. And to talk about the clothes, which I think we should close by talking about what Demna said backstage. He was addressing the rumors and he says, but I think that in the fog of rumors, what is important? Sometimes I read more about rumors and about who is going where than what we really want from fashion now.

19:30Hopefully next season we'll be talking about the clothes. I hope so, too. All right. That is it for the run through. Thank you, Virginia. Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Nicole. See you next week.

19:50The Runthrough is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Joanna Solitarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of Global Audio.

20:15From PRX.