Eva Victor Talks 'Sorry, Baby' Directorial Debut, Cats, and More

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0:17This is The Run-Through. I'm Chloe Mal. And I'm Choma Nardi. Choma, I had—oh my god, first of all, Choma, these are fabulous new glasses. Thanks! Uh, I sort of—they're not new. They're like Warby Parkers I've had for a while, but I sort of struggled with wearing them. They haven't been big in the rotation. No, no, because I'm in denial that I actually need glasses to read. They're sort of big wireframe. How would you describe them? Like aviator glasses. I feel like aviators always suit my face. And are they kind of like what Jenna Lyon wears? Yeah. Hers, I feel like the frames are thicker or did she go into wireframes?

0:59No, maybe the frames are thicker. Yeah, you're right. No, they're wireframes. They're like aviator style. A little bit big, but not too big. And they're rose gold. They're a rose gold frame. I like them. I've had them forever. But the initial lenses that I put in, sorry, we're going into real detail on my eyesight. But yeah, it's hard because they're just reading glasses. So sometimes when I look up, I'm like, oh, it doesn't feel right. So it's getting used to that. It's just aging, guys. It's not dignified. You give it dignity, Choma. I'm always teasing my brother about having the big font on his phone.

1:34And now I'm like, am I going to be that person? You know who I am now? I'm the person who puts a flashlight on the menu. Wow. I need to stop that. Yeah. I'm at that stage of sight. In any restaurant or just a cool, dark restaurant? I mean, most restaurants dark and cool. Like I'm going to a dark and cool restaurant later. I'm sure it's in a basement, but it's like you can't see anything. But your flashlight will be on. Yeah, the romantic lighting does nothing for my eyes. So here we are. But yes, I'm glad you noticed because I actually really like them anyway. I do too. Oh, I heard you had Ava Victor on the show.

2:09She was so fabulous. I had met her at a screening I went to at the San Vicente Bungalows of her film Sorry Baby, which she wrote, directed and stars in. and I loved the movie and I loved her Q &A that she did afterward with co-stars Naomi Ackie and Lucas Hedges and I am a big fan of hers and we had a really fun conversation. Oh, I'm so excited. I've heard so much about this movie. My movie sensei, Sally Singer, has told me that I should watch this. It's not out in the UK yet, but I'm chomping at the bit to watch it. So I can't wait to hear your conversation. Yeah, we chatted on Zoom. We had a very fun meandering chat where we covered a lot of discussion about her cats.

2:58They work with Daniel Goldberg, who's an amazing stylist. So that was interesting to talk about. But first, Chalma, I want to hear what is happening in the UK. Yeah, I mean, over the weekend, Charlie XCX, who is the woman of the hour here, just forever and always, and the coolest girl in town. The brattiest brat of all. the brattiest brat of all um i'm just still i'm having flashbacks to her cameo at duolipa's concert and she was fab i really wish i'd seen her at glastonbury she got married at hackney town hall and now we're thinking about how chic town hall weddings are again and we've been having this conversation in the office city hall weddings in in america but we call them town hall weddings um she married um her beau george daniel's drummer the drummer george daniel and she got married in Vivian Westwood.

3:51I liked her Vivian Westwood. I mean, we have a whole post on all the best Vivian Westwood brides, but I thought hers felt very fresh because it was a mini dress and she carried a bouquet of daisies. What did you think, Choma? Same. I really zoned in on the bouquet of daisies because I'm really picky about flowers. And I think like I just think bouquets can always look a bit done. And I love that she chose like the humble daisy, which I don't think gets enough play in our world. And I love wildflowers. So for me, that was like a perfect touch and made me obsessed with the overall look. You know what I liked was that his boutonniere was also daisies and wildflowers.

4:30It didn't feel too coordinated, but it just seemed very, there's something quite charming and sweet about that. Oh, I like that. Yeah, same. I'm very here for that. Well, it looks like a Devil Wears Prada fever is ramping up, no? I have to say, I would be curious to talk to someone who works in film and TV more about this, but it really is a recent, I would say in the last five, 10 years phenomenon of paparazzi photos leaking from on set because it's such, it really drives a conversation in positive and negative ways. I mean, we've seen with the Carol and Bissette Kennedy American Love Story pictures.

5:09People are rabid about that. With this Devil Wears Prada, people are tearing apart every look. The same thing happens within Just Like That. And it's very much about not being able to hide if you're filming in a major city. So that's definitely been the case with Devil Wears Prada. The first few days of filming in New York City have already come out, and there's really some dramatic looks for Andy Sachs. do you think they adjust the costumes according to the reaction i mean i wonder if these are discussions that are being had is there time even for that or are they releasing things that have been filmed eons ago and it's kind of in the run-up to the movie and not in real time no i think this is today and i think there's definitely room for adjusting um yeah that's what ryan murphy said in his interview with lauren sherman was that they're enlisting fashion experts based on this feedback, et cetera.

6:04Wow. Well, I think it does show you that the clothes do make the movie often. And especially with these movies that have such, especially if they're biopics, you really have to get it right. Or very beloved series or sequels because people were very attached to, I mean, Carrie, I still, I mean, I know we're not talking about I'm Just Like That today, but I still think that this - Everyday trauma. I just can't believe she dumped Aiden for the first time, for the third time. I think I'm still reading from that. Wait, I can't remember. You're Team Aiden? I was, but he's just not. He's such a dud in this particular.

6:43He's always been a dud. I'm sorry. He is so boring. Okay, maybe I just didn't. This just shows you maybe I'm not good at relationships. All he does is make furniture. I'm not good in relationships. I don't have a good ticker for men, girl. Haven't you noticed? I have to get it wrong three times before I realize. I realize as I say this that Graham's biggest hobby is making furniture. But anyway, we digress.

7:09Oh, my goodness. Guess what I did this weekend, Joma? What did you do this weekend? I went to see The Smurfs with Arthur and Alice Albert. Yes. And Rihanna steals the show. She is the whole movie. Smurfette owns the film. It's really a delight to behold. Oh, I can't wait to see it. But as exciting have been her maternity looks, which she has just been rolling out. And we are all delighted. I mean, she's wearing some sort of kooky polka dot tie over her bare bump with an open blazer. She obviously had Riot dressed in custom, new Jonathan Anderson for Dior men's. I mean, this is really. I love that moment.

7:55A high point of dress your children better than yourselves, I have to say. I know. I almost feel like just when I thought her maternity style couldn't get any better, she threw in the addition of like custom looks for her kids. It's impressive. Choma, I don't know if this trickled across the pond, but everyone here was obsessed with the WNBA All-Stars game that was in Indianapolis this past weekend. And they had a huge celeb and influencer and editor contingent. And people, I just find that among my peers and friends, people are so invested in the WNBA in a way that they never have been in, frankly, any women's sports league.

8:36So it's been exciting to see and to watch. Emma did a and I want what they have with Paige Beckers and her girlfriend, Azzy Fudd. And people went nuts. I got so many texts being like, oh, I feel so seen. I love them. Blah, blah, blah. This is it's really activated a fan base that we love to see. And obviously people are very invested in Ellie the elephant. Our very own Ignacio Murillo was at the Liberty game last night and was on the Jumbotron for an extended 30 seconds dancing. Oh, my God. I want to see that. I wish I was a fly on the wall. It's on his Instagram stories. So you're in luck. I'm going to go check it out.

9:14It's funny that you say that because I have a friend who literally text me about the WNBA players and their looks recently. And this is how it broke through for me from across the pond. We have the same thing happening here with women's soccer. And actually this weekend I'm going to Basel in Switzerland for the final. Yes, England made it to the final. Choma, what did you do last week? You saw Kendrick Lamar? I saw Kendrick Lamar and SZA last night. Oh, my God. They're playing. They've taken their tour here. It's actually the highest grossing duo tour of all time. I think they've made like$100 million.

9:54What? It's insane. That's crazy. It's bigger than Jay and Beyonce's. So it's quite a big deal. And it was a really fantastic show. I went with both of my brothers and we never have sibling outings. So it was very, very sweet. And my younger brother is a huge Kendrick and SZA fan. And there is two favorite artists. So it was really cool because in the crowd, obviously, you have the people who are Scissor fans, the people who are Kendrick fans, the people who are both. There was like a mosh pit basically erupted when Not Like Us came on and everybody was singing the lyrics, which is insane. And it was like there were there was pyrotechnics.

10:32It was a huge, huge show. Scissor transforms into a butterfly and is suspended from. Yeah, it sort of flies off. It was quite incredible. I spent last week on an upcoming cover shoot in Jackson Hole. I've heard that cover shoot went very well. Oh, my God. The photos are so fab. I've heard. I can't wait to see them. It's like very old school, early aughts vogue. It's really fun. Virginia said that. It was a huge undertaking. The ranch we shot it at was amazing. And it was in Jackson Hole. The production team that produced it was fantastic. It was just a really fun shoot to be on. And my colleague Sam Sussman and Iggy Murillo were both there.

11:22And we went to the famous Million Dollar Cowboy Bar where we sat on the saddle bar stools and had ranch water, which is tequila in Topo Chico. It was delicious. Thank you. Don't worry about it. Oh, God. And we saw real cowboys who were riding real horses. We were in the Grand Tetons. It was all a very, really experience. Is the landscape insane and beautiful? The landscape is one of the most spectacular places I've ever seen. And I'd never been to— I'd love to go. That's not true. I've been to Wyoming when I was little, but I'd never been to Jackson, and it was just so gorgeous. Choma, when are you going on vacation?

12:03I'm going on vacation in mid-August. I still have to work out my dates. But I think I'm going to go to Greece. My brother and his family are going to Greece. And I'm going to hang out with them. And that will be pre-going to, then I'll hop over to Venice for the film festival. How fun. Yes, it's going to be. And I might see Francesca Ragazzi, our wonderful Italian head of editorial content at Italian Vogue. Well, I hope you'll see the Marc Jacobs by Sofia Coppola documentary that everyone's been extremely excited about. I have no idea of the lineup from the days that I'm going, but I might pop to the Dolomites and see Fran.

12:43Oh, my God. It's so fun. Pop to the Dolomites is like a great travel memoir. In Europe, everything's close, darling. Everything's close. Where are you going on vacation? I am going to France to the southwest near Toulouse. My sister and her partner and her three kids are going to be there. We have a couple of friends coming. I am so excited. My kids are very excited. My kids are mostly excited because in French tabac press shops, they have little kids magazines with toys. And this has become an obsession of my children. And I'm like, over in the U.S., print is dead, my friends. So enjoy this while you can.

13:29The run-through will be back right after this break.

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14:20And we're back with Ava Victor. Where are you right now? Los Angeles. Okay. What is this calendar? Oh, this is my calendar that I don't use, but I got it in Japan. It's like Miyazaki cartoons on it. Ooh. But I don't, my goal for the year was to like write down the stuff that was happening. On the calendar? Yes, but recently I just changed it over to June, but obviously not that recently because it's now July. But if you look to where I'm looking, there's like a bunch of little toys, whatever. Like I look at all this stuff that's all my love stuff, but you just get the blank calendar, which isn't so fair.

15:04Give me one example of a good toy. A little Aquaphor. Oh, we love tiny Aquaphor. This is a toy that when my cat had his birthday, we put this on the cake. How old is your cat and how much did your cat inspire the cat in Sorry Baby? He is eight. completely inspired the film. Of course, he completely saved my life for like, for the last decade, really, like he seriously was there. And I think it's so beautiful that we, he does not speak English. I do not speak whatever he has going on in his head, but we seriously get each other. Like, it's just so deep. Do you have pets? I do. My dog and I are extremely connected.

15:47Dogs are so beautiful. I love a dog. I just, what kind of dog? He's a mutt, but we think he's half St. Bernard, half poodle. Oh my God, that's very sexy. He's a powerful presence. He must be kind of big, no? He's very big, but very squat. Oh, I love a squat dog. I love a little dachshund. He's a little short king. He sounds like legitimately my type. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, no, my cat's good and very much inspired the film. What is your cat's name? Clyde. Clyde. What's your dog's name? Lloyd. Oh, my God. They go together. They do. Did you choose or did you find with name? No, I chose. And I actually, we got Lloyd Wright when I found out I was pregnant with my son.

16:31And it was sort of a telling detail for my husband that I had a list in my notes app of potential dog names, but not children's names. Wait, you have a son? I have a son and a daughter. Why are you, like, actually 18, though? I'm turning 40 very soon. Are you for real? I was a geriatric second pregnancy. People say being 40 is life. People say it's everything. Yes, that's all I hear. All I hear is your 40s are, it just gets better and better. Like 40s are it. Okay. Well, from people in their 40s. So I don't know what 50s are probably even better, but people say 40s are everything. 50 scares me a little bit, but 40, how old are you?

17:1231. Okay. 30s was good for me. There's a lot of things happening in 30s. Well, my 20s were like a complete dumpster fire. So I'm like, 30s have to be chill. Like, things were weird then. No, 40s, I look forward to. You don't have to worry about 50 yet. It's not time yet. Okay. All right. I like telling you what to do. That's not that cool. No, I was with a friend at his 40th birthday this weekend, and he was like, it was so scary because I feel like for so long I was getting all this attention for being really good at work for being so young. And now you're just middle age and okay at work. Yes.

17:47And it's a weird, that is definitely a thing with 40. It's like you're not a young person anymore. Yeah. Like you still get to be a prodigy. No, I think it's over already. But I think it's like the blessing of not being a prodigy is that you get time to get good at something in private. Yeah, it's like you don't have the Orson Welles syndrome where it's like Citizen Kane sort of screws you from now on. No, exactly. And like you're actually like not ready to be exposed because it's too painful. You know, I also think there's something to say about, like, hobbies being so important as you get older because it's, like, about humbling yourself to being a beginner and not doing something to be the best at it.

18:30That's a good point. What's your hobby? I don't have one. That's what I'm thinking. That's why I'm, like, I really want that. Obviously, I don't have that. I'm not okay. I feel like Lloyd is my hobby. Yeah, no, Clyde's my hobby. I'm like always talking to him and always helping him figure out what he needs. Wait, so, and your kids, how old are your kids? Five and three. Holy cow. Yeah. Very cute stuff going on. A lot of Disney movies. What's your favorite Disney movie? Mulan. You mean Princesses? We love Mulan. Yes, Mulan I think is like the girl of the world. She is. I was too old for Mulan. Like, it wasn't a thing when I was little.

19:11So I learned, I discovered Mulan recently. Mulan is such a badass. I really am in awe of her. It's so sad. Like, I feel like that movie, everyone is doing their best randomly. Yeah. And that's really rare, except for, I guess, the scary guys. Oh, yeah. Shen Yu is not doing his best. Well, he is doing his best, but it's bad. Yeah. I will say, like, I grew up watching it in French. So whenever anyone talks about, like, any of, like, I don't know. Like, I'll make a man out of you. I feel like I discovered through people doing karaoke of it. Like, I was watching it in French. I didn't understand it.

19:42But I feel like the story is powerful enough visually that I didn't have to... Like, when I heard Reflection, that's what it's called, right? Yeah. The first time I was like, holy shit. Like, this is such a beautiful idea. Do you go back to France a lot? Because you were born in Paris, right? Yeah, I was. I go back... It was like a milestone when I finally had a job where I could afford to take myself to Paris on my own as an adult. What was that job? Well, I think the first one, I got a job working at Comedy Central and had like a salary for the first time. And so I think I went once right before COVID.

20:16And then I did a TV show called Billions. And I was able to go back like kind of once a year after that, which I think I'd always go back alone. And I just find it to be really wonderful to be there alone and like sad but perfect. I want to know how you describe Sorry Baby to someone in an elevator. Like someone, like you meet sort of like your parent's friend. They're like, oh, Ava, what have you been up to? Oh, I hear you have a movie. And you have to describe it in two minutes. I stop the elevator. I'm like, listen. No. I'm like, hold on. I have a lot to say. I guess the thing I would say is, Sorry Baby is a movie about a person trying to heal and the best friendship that saves this person's life and the everyday pain of looking around when you feel stuck and everyone is moving on and it's just you in your house trying to figure out how to keep going in a world you don't totally understand anymore.

21:19They'd be like, that sounds really depressing. I'd be like, yeah, totally. It's also funny, but I can't prove that to you right now. But try to go see it. The movie is so funny and so touching. And I have to say, I really felt like I was transported into this very intimate world for, what is it, 90 minutes, two hours? It's a tight movie. It's not long. Yeah. It's like 100 minutes. It's 100 minutes. Okay, so it's close to two hours. But, I mean, it's such a powerful world to be part of because it is very much, you feel like you're in this quotidian day-to-day of such an important moment in the main character's life.

22:01And I want to know, where did you guys film? And sort of what was the day-to-day like when you were on set? Because it's just the vibe you get from watching it is this must have been such, that intimacy must have extended to filming it. Yeah, I mean, well, it's a very small film. And the one cool thing about making a movie for very little money is that anyone who's there is there because they do have something in the script that is calling to them. and that makes them want to do it. So there is just like this immediate sort of understanding that if you're there, you are there for a reason that is the story we want to tell.

22:41We shot in outside of Boston in a little town called Ipswich. It was very, very sweet. We shot on this property called Appleton Farms. There was like this little cabin that used to be where they, like the laundry house on this estate and the estate the big mansion on the estate got torn down but the laundry house remained and that's where we shot yeah I mean I think obviously it's a super personal story and it's in moments a very difficult story and I was very lucky that I had people who understood how vulnerable this was for me and I felt very very supported while we were shooting um and i wanted it to take place in this this sort of new england town that felt like it could skew romantic and cozy like the holiday or kind of horror when the character is feeling stuck and scared uh so so doing a cabin in the woods shooting in a cabin in the woods can be very helpful when you're trying to move through tone to cabin in the woods is almost uniquely pan-tonal.

23:55Yes. Yes. True. Yeah, I mean, it was like a movie of, there's 84 scenes, I think, in the script that we shot, and 70 of them are in the house. So finding the house and finding how a house moves and changes over five years was really important in telling a story about five years in time and how it moves. I was sort of amazed, and I keep laughing when I was preparing for this and was reading that everyone keeps calling it a tromedy and how triggering that is because it's a terrible word. Well, it's not a word to be clear. Yeah, right. And I feel like it's sexist. I don't know what to say. I think it's sexist.

24:36Like, I just do. I feel sexist. The film is trope defying. It's genre-less, which people hate. But I think that that is such an exciting thing. And also for a first film, it's a very brave thing. Was there ever a moment where you felt I need to be clear with people about what this is or were you always confident enough in the story that you knew it could straddle several different things I think I knew it could straddle but I definitely lied to people when they needed to be lied to to tell them it would be a certain way honestly like I was like it's gonna be like Juno like it's gonna be like Juno it's gonna be like Fargo and Step Brothers and then also like I'd be like but it's also like three colors blue but then but I wouldn't say that because that's like not something anyone wants you know you say different things to different people to make them believe in the film but I always knew I wanted to make a film that was beautiful in a very like art house way and shot in a very formal way ultimately while making a comedy too and I couldn't totally find an example of those two things I think the visual language became very inspired by the film Certain Women by Kelly Reichardt, which is a film all about women's interiority, and it's shot in a way that's very restrained.

25:53Like, we don't go close until we have to. That film was sort of a North Star for me of, yes, this film and the way that how beautiful it is to see these women and these wives looking alone, plus, like, jokes. I feel like it's become sort of lore now, well, in the Ava Victor universe, But that Barry Jenkins. With like three people. Barry Jenkins loved your YouTube films that you were making. And he really encouraged you to take this film that you had written and direct it yourself. When did you finally feel like a director?

26:37That's a good question. And I think there were a few moments in the edit that I was like, where I was, one of my editors, Alex O 'Flynn, is very good and very smart. And some of the things he would say about why things were working and not working at the very beginning, I was like, oh, man, I wonder if I could see that too someday. like that I could understand like I could understand why something's working and not working in the way that he does and I think there were moments in the edit that I uh I got to a place where I was like it has to be this way because and I understood why and I think that's when I that's when I feel like the directing I understood a part of the directing that I hadn't before which was why something needed to be a certain way and why we need to do use this shot and not that shot and we needed to cut here.

27:38And I feel like that was the real joy of directing ultimately for me, I think I found in the edit. But also on set, you know, it's really wild to be acting and directing at the same time because... I'm always astounded by it. And acting, directing your own material you've written. Because it's hard to find distance from that. I have a question. Fuck Chuck or Mary, writer, director, actor. Whoa. Like, which one really stays with you is like, I need to, that's my marriage for life. Well, you know, there's something about writing that is sort of like, and I think I'm probably also saying this because it's been so long since that part of this experience.