FINNEAS is Not Sentimental | PLUS Chioma Goes Callas Core

0:28This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mal. and producing music with his sister, Billie Eilish. You may have heard of her. She's American Vogue's November cover star. In addition to Billie, Phineas has collaborated with artists like Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Drake, Rosalia, just a few, you know, small-town names. And this is his second solo album, and it has a very different vibe from his debut. I was very charmed by Phineas. He came into the studio. He was here in person with the Chloes. and you know what got me? We had three water glasses and he poured all three of us water. Chivalry is not dead.

1:06Phineas knows how to treat his guests. There was a profile of him written by Jen Wang in the November issue that Chloe edited and the cover story of his sister, obviously, written by Alessandra Codina, which Chloe also edited. So she's well-versed in the Eilish family at the moment. And so it was fun to do it with her. Also, obviously, personally, I'm very invested in Phineas and Billy's sibling dogs because Shark Eilish was our top performing dog cover star after Scout Walls. No way. Oh, yeah. Shark and Scout were neck and neck for most clicks. Choma, have you ever met Phineas? I actually have.

1:49I sat next to Phineas and Billy at the Met and we had a really fun time talking to them. Okay, flex. Sorry, yeah. I remember because Billie was wearing that fab Simone Roshar piece. I think it was the Karl Lagerfeld met because I think I remember Billie telling me that she went up to Kristen Stewart and totally fangirled out. Interesting. That's cute. I'm really fond of Billie especially. I mean, I interviewed her and Alessandro Michele once many moons ago when we had a virtual forces of fashion. And that was such a treat to sit in on their conversation because Alessandro Michele, who is now the creative director of Valentino, creates these really deep relationships with the people who he considers his muses.

2:38You are so good at this that you unwittingly just gave two excellent segues into the next thing I wanted to talk about. I did? Like what? One, you mentioned a virtual forces of fashion from back in the day. Two, you mentioned Alessandro Michele, who is speaking at the Rome Vogue Italia forces of fashion. Your forces of fashion is this weekend also. They're both. It is. I'm trembling. Tell us everything. What are the dumpster fires of the moment? No, no dumpster fires yet, but I'm just nervous. I want it to come off well. We have a really fantastic lineup. I'm so, I had a call with John Galliano and Gwendolyn Christie and they both put their dogs on the Zoom and it was fantastic.

3:19Oh my God. I don't know how we're going to keep the conversation to an hour on the day. Bring the dogs, they'll keep it tight. Oh my God. It was so, it was really special. And Gwendolyn is such a huge fashion fan and has, it's at Central Saint Martins. Central Saint Martins is basically the best fashion school in the world. Sorry to trumpet my country's own horn. but it's the truth. And most of the sort of big designers you can think of from the UK and beyond have been through that school, including John Galliano and Stella McCartney, who I'll be interviewing on Saturday, which I'm really looking forward to.

3:56Ooh, that's fun. Yeah, yeah. And then we have our cover star, Saoirse Ronan will be there, Lena Dunham and Christopher Kane, who are really great friends, are going to be there. Oh my God, that's so fun. But yeah, last week was a big week in New York, I have to say. and everyone I feel like is sick afterward. I like had to leave the office yesterday to get like prescription Sudafed from this poor doctor who was like, yeah, you have a sinus infection. I don't know what to tell you. But yeah, everyone like, so it was the Victoria's Secret show on Tuesday, the Force of Fashion and the CVF dinner on Wednesday, the Armani extravaganza on Thursday, which was insane.

4:38That sounded insane. They took over the entire Park Avenue armory. It was black tie. They flew in hundreds of guests from around the world, editors, influencers, celebrities. But it was also felt very much like a New York event. It was celebrating Armani's new building, which is condos, stores, restaurant. It's like Armani Disneyland. Mr. Armani came and he took a bow. He's 90 years old. I'd never been to an Armani show myself. So I was an Armani virgin. And what I thought was charming, and I always really like to see this at fashion shows, is when other designers fan other designers. Like, I love that Loewe, that so many designers came to see what JW did this season in Paris.

5:27And what was nice about this was it felt very New York, but also very much an homage to Mr. Armani as a great designer. Willie Tiberia was there. Joseph Altazar was there. Like, all of the young American designers were there to sort of pay homage, and that was really touching and nice. But they transformed the Park Avenue Armory into, like, a train station. It sort of reminded me of Scorsese's movie where Chloe Moretz comes out of a clock, Hugo. But I don't know if that's what they were going for. But and everyone was looking very glam and mostly like black and white, black tie, tons of Armani around.

6:03Over 50 celebrities, Amanda Seyfried, Brie Larson, Orlando Bloom, Megan Face, even Yoon. And then this week, there's a fun Gucci dinner with Debbie Harry. But more importantly, it is the battle of the sample sales. It is the Prada sample sale and the row. Oh, no, I'm missing it. The same day. So I went to the Prada one. And? And I got a dress. A dress? Is that it? You just got one? I got a dress and a houndstooth skirt. But that was it. But the dress is from the 2020 Cruise Collection. It has jockeys all over it. And I'm not sure if it's a great sign that my first instinct was, Ooh, this is perfect for my Miss Frizzle costume for Halloween because I'm being Miss Frizzle and Alice is being the magic school bus.

6:54Oh, my God. So you'll be seeing that in your dress next Thursday. I heard reports from the Rose Sample sale that it was like editors fighting over Margot Beggs, Emma Stone, Zoe Kravitz. Like it was a real scene. But God bless. Big news also in New York right now is that the New York Liberty women's basketball team won their first championship. Oh, that's so great. And we here are all big Liberty fans, and we're also obsessed with Ellie the elephant. And we actually had Ellie do a getting ready diary for one of the playoff games. And it was fab because Ellie, who knew, has two braiders who do her hair for an hour before every game to make sure her braids are tight and going to last through all of her head flipping.

7:43She gets custom jewelry put on her trunk and her ears before every game. So that was a very exciting moment for us. Oh, and then this weekend show, there was a lot going on. It was the Academy Museum Gala. Oh, I saw that. A lot of vintage, right? A lot of great archival fashion, including Kaya Gerber that wore that fantastic, yeah, that Alexander McQueen for Givenchy. Oh, my God. The Kaya Gerber dress, I love. And Hannah Jackson did a really great piece on the history of the dress. Tell me, I only know that it was one of Lee McQueen's haute couture Givenchy. pieces. But you tell me more. I'd love to hear the story behind it.

8:26Basically, it was a 1997 dress from Lee McQueen's Givenchy collection, which the connection there is that Sarah Burton obviously just took over at Givenchy coming from McQueen. And she and Kaya have a close relationship. And Kaya really wanted to honor her by wearing something from McQueen's old Givenchy. And the dress at the time was a reference to Audrey Hepburn's dress in My Fair Lady at the ball scene. And actually, Matthew Williams, when he was at Givenchy, did another version of that same dress for Kendall for the Met, but like a naked one. So it's been a dress that's been an inspiration throughout the Givenchy archives and periods.

9:13And I thought Chi looked so gorge as ever. Who else did you like, Chioma? I mean, I always loved Greta Lee, and I loved that Loewe collection. And she wore this feathered, kind of voluminous, printed, floral Loewe dress, which was exquisite. It's interesting to see that Loewe collection getting so much red carpet time. Yeah, Meg Ryan wore it too. Yeah, Meg Ryan and Gal Gadot. Coleman Domingo wore Valentino and brought out the little kitty cat. Oh, yeah, the kitty cat clutch. Kitty Cat Clutch that was on the Valentino runway, obviously Alessandra Michele's first collection for Valentino. So quite a kind of fashion, a big fashion nod to wear that on the red carpet.

9:55it and then we saw those archival Mugler you saw um Kim and Kylie um but I do I do like the way the Genesis is and when I say the Genesis is I mean Kendall and Kylie are leaning into this Hollywood glam I I the sort of big wavy kind of roller curls and I kind of I kind of I kind of like that they're leaning into I think it works especially on a on a young girl to wear something like that. I mean, a young girl, a young woman. Yes, I just do. I did think that, you know, obviously the gala is to raise money for the Academy Museum Gala, which is about the history of film. And I felt that everyone really kept that in mind.

10:36And it was very much an old Hollywood, a celebration of classic Hollywood glamour in the way that people addressed it with fashion and glam. Choma, what did you do this week? I did see Maria over the weekend. Yeah, and Angelina Jolie came for the screening with Pablo Loren, and there was a Q &A after the screening, and I went to say hi to Angelina because obviously I interviewed her once upon a time and I wanted to catch up with her and just tell her how I thought the film was, which I did think was beautiful. It was beautiful. And honestly, the set design, the fashion, just wow. Like, I'm just into Maria, Carla's core.

11:20Like, I just want to dress like that. But even the house, the clothes that she wore in the house was so considered. And her dressing room was the most beautiful dressing room that you've ever seen in life. Basically, they wanted her life to feel like a stage. so every kind of scene was designed that way and every I mean that apartment I just want to live in that apartment if can I just live in that apartment it was just so special anyway that's my takeaway and and and Angelina was was fantastic oh I'm so excited she spent months learning to sing so a lot of the singing the opera singing that you hear is her wow I didn't know that and And I didn't know that until the end, until we got to the Q &A, that she trained, I think, for seven months.

12:10So she was it was it was a lot of work required for this role. And I think she's someone who really kind of is such as she's such a student. She really gets into it. She's very she wants to know things back to front. And she really threw herself into the role. So I think you should absolutely go see it. OK, Choma, what are you what TV shows are you watching and what are you reading? I actually have been holding off on reading the new Sally Rooney, but I've read all of her books and I love them all. So I think I'm going to and my colleagues have all been reading and loved it. Have you read Intermezzo?

12:44No. I love Sally Rooney. I've read all of her books. I need a minute. I feel like they're too fast. Yeah. I'm not like rushing to the bookstore for Intermezzo. Yeah, I haven't got it yet, but I want to read Naina Cherry's autobiography too. That's on my list. And TV-wise, there's a couple of things I haven't started, but I feel like I'm super behind on. I still haven't finished Industry. I'm really excited about Jilly Cooper's Rivals. Apparently it's great. Oh, that's what I want to watch. Oh, yeah, I've heard it's fantastic. I know, me too. I've been watching the franchise, which is really fun, which is the Iannucci show about that sort of a satire of superhero franchises and films and is really funny.

13:32And I love the main actress in it, Lali Adafope, and it's just it's a fun Sunday night watch. Last week also, I think we were really devastated to hear the news of Liam Payne's passing, who was a member of One Direction and very beloved here in the UK. And I think the way it's been reported has been quite difficult and quite fraught. And I think the tabloids have not really, have perhaps gone a little too far in the way they've covered this. Well, fill me in, how have they covered it? Because I obviously haven't seen. Obviously, someone who struggled with addiction and was quite open about it.

14:07And, you know, the circumstances of his passing were tragic. You know, he fell from a window, from a hotel balcony window. I just think that there was just no sense of decency around the way it was reported. I think they very much wanted to get in on all the details and it was unnecessary. when someone's died. It just felt too soon to be running stories about every single detail. There were many of the staffers who knew him here. I know he was very friendly with Edward. He used to edit British Vogue, Edward Endenfall. So I think it hit close to home, particularly in this office, from what I could tell.

14:54And it just felt like the coverage of it was salacious in a way and sensationalist in a way that it didn't need to be. Oh, that's so sad. Yeah. Okay, we are going to take a quick break and then back with our conversation with Phineas.

15:20Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, Senior Awards Correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

16:03Welcome to the run through the Vogue. So we are very excited to have you here. Joanna, one of our producers, was telling us about going to your sold out show on Saturday and the fans were losing their minds. Was there a highlight of the evening for you? It was a great, super participatory crowd. Okay. You know, clapping if you ask them to. Pretty rhythmic. Good sing-along experiences. It was really fun. Great audience. What do you do if they're not rhythmic? Gently correct? Well, okay. So I'll usually try to get a clap going, right, on the twos and the fours at some point. Yeah. And if they're not rhythmic, that's the one of the show.

16:40That's the only. That's right. That's right. I love that you played at the Warsaw, which is like an old school Greenpoint. It used to be a Polish social club. But it's a fairly intimate venue. How did you decide to do that? It's really fun. I played there five years ago on a little mini tour that I did, really. One of the only tours I've done under my own name. And during this album release moment, I wanted to do small shows everywhere. And I just love having everybody up close to me. It's really fun to just look out and actually see everybody. We should say the album name. It is For Crying Out Loud.

17:16We're all really enjoying it. Well, it's quite different from your previous album, right? A little bit, yeah. The previous album was just me alone in a room fighting for my life. And this album, I invited a room full of close friends and co-writers that I've gotten to know over the last couple years to participate with me. And first of all, it made it much more fun for me to be in the studio every day. I had all this company. And second of all, they had great ideas and made the work better, I think. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about the typical day when you were recording this? I think I read that it was done in quite a short window of time.

17:50Yeah, it was short and sweet. The first week we did was like Monday through Friday in March. We'd start at like noon, maybe 1. And I work out of a studio in a neighborhood on the east side of L.A. It's like a big sort of barn space, a bunch of windows, smells like a La Labo in there. It's very different than maybe like going to a storied old recording studio where it smells like mold and cigarettes and there's no daylight. I think studios sometimes have a kind of a casino vibe. Yeah, no clocks, no windows. Yeah, that's not my, I don't like that at all. I like to be in there in the afternoon, it starts to get dark and we're done.

18:28Oh, wow, okay. Yeah, I mean, there are days where you have to work a long day to get the thing done and there's a deadline, but in the making of this album, I kept it very loose and relaxed. And so we'd work until we ran out of steam every day, and then sometimes we'd go get dinner together, sometimes we wouldn't. But we kept it really loose. Do you think this is your new process now, a more collaborative one? Or do you think you'll ever go back to doing kind of more solo style music making? Yeah, it'll depend on where my head's at. I mean, I think the primary reason was that I hadn't done it before.

18:59So it was to shake things up and try something different. So now I've done it, and I would definitely like to do it again. It was really fun. But I also now, on the other side of it, may want to go back and make an album alone for the same reason. What's the virtue of doing an album alone versus with other people, if you had to sum it up? I suppose other than the kind of, to me, what felt like, you know, semi necessity, I made the last album during pandemic where I wasn't really seeing anybody. I think the benefit of making an album totally alone might be a kind of a, a bareness that would be harder to accomplish with a room full of people.

19:35The example I'd give is like, I played in bands in high school, and I'd write a ballad. And then I think, well, I have a drummer, like, there better be a drum part for this song. You know what I mean? And so if I'm alone in a room, there doesn't have to be any drum part. There's no drummer. So I think they're both sort of their own separate version of that. Like, do you want it or don't you? Yeah. We also wanted to talk a little bit about the music videos, which we found very entertaining. I love the music video. That's very kind of you. I really like those videos too. Oh my God. Was it so much fun to do?

20:03I hate being on set. Yeah. I first of all don't feel very good at doing it. And it's slow and tedious. and there's like a million things going wrong all the time. It's like a stressful process. More so than recording an album? Oh my God, yeah. Oh, interesting. Recording an album in many ways is like the thing that I feel sort of the most comfortable doing. Being on set, there's so many people all working sort of harder than you. If you're the actor, so to speak, in it, you're like waiting for them to get the lights right and waiting for them to get the background right and waiting for them to get, you know, the camera angle right And then you get there and then maybe you mess up your line or you mess up your lip syncing and you feel all bad about it.

20:43So I have a terrible time shooting. But Isaac Ravashankara, who made these videos, super talented. And I was very grateful to be working with him on the whole. I did all three. I did Cleats and For Crying Out Loud and Lotus Eater all with him. And I love digging into a collaborative relationship. For people who haven't seen the music video yet, the video for Crying Out Loud is various ways that Phineas dies in front of your onscreen and real life. In front of my real life and fake girlfriend, Claudia. Yeah, correct. Was that – were you doing your own stunts? Did you feel like you were doing a mini horror film?

21:19Was it terrifying to be faced with your own mortality over and over again? No, I mean I have such a detachment because it's me, you know. But yeah, I did hear from my sister and my mom like that was a tough video to watch. Nobody wants to watch you get hit by a car or fall down an elevator shaft. So I have empathy. But because it's me, I'm not looking at it being like, oh, my God. Yeah. Is there an action hero that you were inspired by, like Daniel Craig or Tom Cruise doing your stunts? No, I mean, you know, the elevator shaft was like CGI. We did like a scan of my clothing. Okay. I stood in a hotel room and scanned myself.

21:56and then they put it on like a ragdoll dummy in an effects program that one of the, you know, effects guys ran. Wow. And then put my clothes on it and we ragdolled this little dummy down an elevator shaft. It's very cool. That is cool. I thought it looked really good. It does look good. Yeah. And I love that Claudia got a standing ovation sort of cheering at the show on Saturday. Yeah, that was so cute. That's so cute. She was up on the balcony and I think after the show ended, the lights all came up. she was spotted and I think maybe like a chant started or something but I've always felt that way especially like growing up anytime I was really into a band or a actor or something like I would become very invested in my parasocial relationship with them and I'd be a fan of their their real life I'd be a fan of their wife or husband and their whole thing so I find it cute that kids are are similar well especially with her in the in the video was she always going to with you?

22:53That was a kind of a funny, like, I just saw Sabrina talk about having Barry Keoghan in a, in the please, please, please video the other day where she was like, I just thought, oh, who's the best actor I could find? And he was right nearby, which is a really funny thing of her to say. Yeah, I think like Claudia is a really good actor. And, you know, the pitch comes through for the idea. And I'm like, oh, thank God I can, I can have a person I already feel super comfortable with. Is it weird to be fighting in a video with Claudia? Was there and then fake dying in front of her? Did you channel any?

23:26Was there like method acting where you were channeling real fights? No, I mean, the method acting maybe of that video day was like, I was in a bad mood during that shoot, as I am during most shoots. And again, I'm not yelling at anybody, but I'm sitting there kind of bummed out in the corner. Yeah. And Claudia, by contrast, is a really good actor and loves to be on set and is generous with her energy to everybody. So I think the on set vibe reflected that. I mean, the album cover is a still photo of a moment on set of me looking off in the middle distance, holding Claudia's hand, and that's pretty reflected.

24:03So I suppose maybe shy of being method. It's probably all stems from insecurity. I just don't think I'm that good at being in a video. So I think it's just kind of that. I think when you feel insecure about something, like I see that with people with social anxiety. People look miserable to be at a party. And I think it's just because they think they're not good at meeting a new person or something like that. So that's what I notice about myself. The time I'm the most eager to leave is whenever I feel like out of my depth. Yeah. What happens when you go on tour for a 30-city tour? Are you, how do you keep in touch with everyone?

24:39What is your routine? One of the cheat codes I've employed on this run is that I'm bringing most of my closest friends to play in my band. So fun. And, yeah, if I weren't doing that, as I haven't in the past, that is the thing that you miss. You miss all your friends. And the tradeoff is you get to play these exciting shows and travel. And those are fun things, but you do miss your friends. But I had this night after the show in the Warsaw where I was out at a bar with, like, my friends and Claudia was there. I had this feeling of kind of calm of like, oh, everybody back home is here. Like it was kind of a thrill.

25:14Yeah. So that's kind of a hack. What's like the way of staying sane when you're traveling that much? Like what are you listening to on your headphones? Yeah. I'm a podcast guy when I travel. I find those pretty easy to like kind of listen to and then maybe drift off, doze off to. That's nice. What podcast? Give us your top podcast. I listen to a lot of Armchair Expert. I listen to a lot of smart lists. I listen to a lot of Conan O 'Brien needs a friend. If I want to feel depressed, I'll listen to The Daily. Okay. Yeah. I often am like fresh off a Daily episode and Claudia will call me or something from home and I'll be like, did you know about the water crisis in Arizona?

25:52She's like, yeah, actually, because she's a big Daily listener too. And we have like a brief moment where we're like, what are we going to do? Yeah. Which is, you know, state of the world, right? What are we going to do? Right now, in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe. It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without.

26:33And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.