From Ceramic Purses to Chappell Roan: Julien Dossena’s Rabanne

0:29This is The Run Through. I'm Cho Minardi. under Nicola Ghesquière at Balenciaga. He was such a treat to talk to. I'm so excited for everyone to hear about all the surprises and the moments that the brand has coming up this season. The Run Through will be back in just a moment.

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1:31Bonjour Julien, how are you? Bonjour, good and you? Sorry to be late. I was stuck with the girls in the fittings. So I just had to check the last length, but now I'm fine. Thank you very much. That's exciting. Tell us about the length. So what's happening back there? Well, it was a fundamental question about like, is it floor sweeping or ankle length? So it's really, no, there is short shorts And there is also another length that we are trying to figure out. So we did. So that's a good thing. I can't believe we're talking to you 48 hours before the show. Set the scene a little bit. What is it like for these sort of ticking time down to the actual show?

2:15You know, we are in the middle of the fittings. So we did the looks for three days this weekend. Then we had to go and see and casting on Sunday. and now we are beginning the fitting since this morning and we have another day tomorrow all day long and so it's like counting. We hear there's some big reveals coming and luckily the show airs after the show so can you fill us in? So there is different things actually. We did some collaboration with some houses in Paris for their no-ho like really luxury techniques that I wanted to work with. you know our iconic bag let's say which is called the 69 which is the which was an original from from pakoraban in 67 something like that and so it's it's our the bag that we are selling the most and i wanted to just like um make it super precious this season so we contacted artist bertrand a gold medal house that are specialist of uh gold medals and gold chains so we made one um in full gold, actually.

3:27Wow. The chains, the rings and everything. So it's a really astonishing piece, you know, and they made their medals into the chain mail piece that we use engraved with their own patterns and stuff. It's a really beautiful bag. I just saw it yesterday. Will that be sold? Yes, it will be sold, but it will be sold as a high jewelry piece because you can imagine like that amount of gold on itself. It's already like a really big amount of money. Dare I ask, how much money? Still in search, but it's more than 200 ,000 euros. Wow, it sounds amazing. And then there is another one with ceramics, actually.

4:10So we made dress and bags also, you know, with that French house called Astier de Villat. Yes, I've been to their factory. Have you? It's great. Yeah. It's really cool. And they are really nice people, too. And they're always like up for a creative challenge as well. So we met and we worked on that ceramic dress, you know, like in chain mail and the bag as well. So it's little tiles of ceramic, little pieces connected with a chain mail? Exactly. So it's the same technique. And they just like made it in clay, then with the mold and everything. And then after they enameled them, you know, with their specific technique.

4:47And, you know, what I love about their ceramic is that the clay that they use is quite dark. So it's really that off-white, grayish feeling that I really found specific about their work and their techniques that is beautiful on a dress with the bag. And the last one is the bag that we made. It's a house in Murano for glass called Venini. And they developed also one of the oldest glass makers in Murano that is working. and they made each piece by each piece, you know, with the techniques of like glass blowing and everything with the dégradé from like light pink to transparent. But you know, that kind of bubbly glass that is not really transparent.

5:34So we made a bag also with them and we work on a dress also. Of course, not in glass, but to match with the bag like that. I have to admit, I am a huge fan of your bags and I wear them like jewellery, but I like to wear them during the day as well. like not just for evening. I'm sort of curious to know a little bit about how, what your process is because, you know, some designers, they have like a mood board or they think of an inspiration. Like what's your, what tends to be your process, your starting point? That depends really on the collection. Sometimes it's color in a movie, you know, something that just, it's always difficult for me, just the starting point of something.

6:18So sometimes it's just like, yeah, a feeling in a movie, a kind of sensuality, a movement somewhere, something I'm reading that interests me, you know, about a woman that depends on the novel or the book I am reading at that moment. But mostly it's like by walking around in the city. That's mostly when I travel, it's just observing some gesture some um attitudes of of girls what they are wearing i mean i love it because as i tell you it's like a real inspiration but i think the tube every day you know just to yeah it's so good to be on it's so good to see how people dress you know real people are dressing when they take the subway it's it's really a crowd that is really mixed and how uh just i don't know color popping or just even like a hairdo and how the look is built because people are quite super precise in their expression you know on fashions when you look at that it's all the little stories that you can tell yourself about that character let's say that you that you figure out so so mainly it's really i get inspiration day after day i really force myself even to go and walk and walk in the city just to to look at at things or people sometimes i'm a bit like not creepy but you know i take pictures you know like hidden just because there is a good look good attitude what's the last picture of a look you took i think it was um in the tube so she was really close which was complicated to get without like you know being weird but it and all the back she was having a jersey all ripped cut you know in stripes uh the jersey in the in the back and it was braided and then it was all like a macrame technique and you could tell that she had done it and i thought that was really interesting like how to twist a t-shirt so that's the last one i took i think so you joined ruban in in in 2013 can you tell us a bit about where the brand was at then because i think it was in quite a different place right yeah basically it was um not uh doing fashion for a long time.

8:30I think that they worked maybe until the end of the 19th, I would say. And then they stopped until 2010 or something. And they tried to work with two designers previously and it didn't coat and it was not maybe the good moment or I don't know. And then when I arrived, it was really, which was a luck for me, It was a brand that resonated, you know, in terms of image, because it's a beautiful brand. And you get some inspiration from that brand that pop up immediately when you say Paco Rabanne. It's like Jane Birkin with the bag and the short, short dress in the nightclub in Paris in the 70s. You got Brigitte Bardot and Paco Rabanne in cinema, you know, with Barbarella, of course.

9:20And so it was all part of that lifestyle, let's say, of those days that is really linked to Paco Rabanne. and that the brand was famous for. But then it was a luck for me because basically I had a beautiful, precious name. And at the same time, it was totally free for me to work it in the contemporary way. So I could ask myself like, oh, okay, so you have to celebrate and to dig into those values of the brand that you love, that are relevant for now. And at the same time, you can totally inject what you are eager to do or what you think what a brand right now should look like or to propose you know to an audience or to to potential customers so uh it was the fact that nobody expected expected so much about it at that moment that was a lot less of pressure for me also to go because it was a territory to take that was not something to lose you know at the same time I didn't you know have people that were going to say you know how the industry works sometimes like oh it's not really Paco Rabanne or it's not really what we expected from a brand you know some some brands sometimes are really difficult to work because everybody has an opinion about what it should be and not at Paco Rabanne because it was really free and it was interesting to to think about people that are going to rediscover it through the the work we were going to do.

10:50And at the same time, also to propose it to people that didn't know the brand at all. You know, like the younger generation that came to the brand really naturally and they didn't know that much about the history of the brand. I just always thought, don't consider that it's an archive brand that you have to put back on the market, but consider it's a new brand with specific values that are easy to work right now. Because I have to say, I'm really helped by the values of the brand, which are, you know, that kind of sensuality, innovation also, always pushing the laboratory feeling, this kind of avant-garde proposition.

11:26So it was not a brand that you have to work some archives that are quite difficult, for example, like a specific material or a specific shape of a jacket that you have to respect and to twist, but still respecting it. It was quite experimental, you know, the way it was working and free. So I guess it was also easier for me to make resonate the brand in the present. Yeah, I remember actually being at that show 10 years ago and the excitement afterwards was, it just connected very quickly. And the succession of shows after that that you did and your approach to, you didn't seem to be encumbered by the history or the legacy.

12:08You seemed to be really free and you just took it in your stride. because I think a lot of people find that legacy and that history to be quite oppressive. Yeah, a shackle. That's true. And you took Paco off the name. Now it's just Rabanne. Was that a part of that decision? No, not really. I think it's a group decision. To be super honest, it was because they wanted to go more global with the brands. And then they wanted it to be like one word. For me, it doesn't make that much difference. I'm always talking about Paco Rabanne because for me, the man that defines fashion, you know. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, Senior Awards Correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men.

12:54Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

13:23Is there one iconic Paco Rabanne look from the 60s or early 70s that you always think back on, whether it's Brigitte Bardot or Barbarella? Barbarella, is there one sort of moment in your mind that sort of epitomizes the old version of the brand? Yes, there is a few because now that I dug into the archives for more than 10 years now, but I would say that, of course, Francoise Hardy, beauty, the fact that he was writing so many beautiful songs and our really intellectual androgynous attitude must be the more striking image that I got of his work and the perfect combination. At some point, it was really to make femininity move forward.

14:09You know, when he was talking about what he wanted for women, when he was dressing in them in metal, he was saying that he wanted them to be able to defend themselves in that really masculine world that was not treating women really well. you know, and that he wanted to help them to have that attitude that is a bit, you know, like an armor, like an Amazon he was thinking. So I found those images really beautiful in that way, let's say. Well, I think that leads us quite nicely into the sort of cultural moments you're creating with and the women you're dressing, including that amazing look that you made for Chapel Rhone.

14:52Oh, yeah. I love her. She's great. Are you a fan? Were you a fan before? I loved one of her songs, actually, that I knew before. Which one? It's called Pink Pony Girl, I think. Pink Pony Club. Pink Pony Club, exactly. And there is a place in the world called the Pink Pony Club that you can be who you are, that you can go on the stage. and she's talking to her mom back in Tennessee saying like, you're not going to be proud, but I'm just having fun at the Pink Pony Club. And it's a place where all people can, yeah, be themselves, you know. So I love that song. It's a good example, actually, of what the brand, all the values that he infused, you know, in that brand and the type of femininity that he defined at that moment is still relevant for today, you know, because she really wanted to express that why you're feeling and that almost revolutionary feeling about the way she dressed and how to fight back or how to fight for the rights of just being who you want to be.

15:56I'm always curious to know how those kind of moments come together. Tell me, was that a conversation that started directly with her? We never got in touch that way because, you know me, I love when it's quite natural in a way. You know, sometimes it's always a good surprise. We had the same with Sabrina Carpenter three years ago, I think. She didn't release her last album yet. And she really wanted to come to our show. And so we said like, oh, maybe, I don't know, let us see if we get the budget to fly you and everything. But I love the character already, you know. And so she said, no, no, no, I come on my own.

16:34I really want to not bother you and everything, but I really want to be at your show. And then it was our first Met Ball that year. So we said like, oh, we can make you a dress if you want for your first mat and everything. And so, you know, when it comes like a mutual meeting, you know, at some point, like there is not one or the other that wants more. It's just like a meeting, a connection at some point. And it was the same with Chapel because actually I think she asked us for a look, for that look. And the team said like, oh, you know, we're going to try on some different things. So you are in options for, there is different things.

17:12And me, I was not even aware that she asked for, you know, because I think my team didn't want me to be, as I know that I really liked her, disappointed or something. So I didn't know. And then both, you get the nice surprise of her wearing it and having the award as well. And, you know, like it's a good luck charm, let's say, the dress. So we were happy. And then after, of course, we reached out and we said like, oh, let's do some stuff together, you know, like the universal, let's say, connection. It really felt like a universal connection because it felt like she was wearing this Joan of Arc armor and was in this very powerful look to support this very powerful message that she gave, which was dedicating her award to the queer community.

17:58And I thought she just, it was a great example of how fashion really can amplify your message and can carry home what you're trying to convey to people. Definitely. And that's why it was like that kind of perfect moment, you know, on that, I would not say collaboration, but moment, as you said. And I love what she said, and I felt it was so relevant when she sank the LGBT community. And no, it was really a really good surprise. I think it was on the Sunday. I was like, wow, that's nice. that's a nice sunday yeah and the picture with her with her parents in that look is so sweet too yeah definitely so cute but she is so cute and she writes so well i mean you know like the music and everything she's just great that felt like her first big major fashion moment to me anyway i mean i'm not like i don't i don't think i've been following her as long as you but this felt like that she really nailed it.

19:01True, true. And even have you seen on the red carpet when she was like yelled at by the photographer and she said like, no, that's me who is saying you to shut up and everything. I love that moment. And I love that kind of, you know, like femininity, as you said, like, you know, that really handled things like that. Is there anyone you want to dress that you haven't yet? Well, I mean, it's like, So, yeah, there is a lot of women that I'm really inspired by. But there is, you know, Cindy Sherman, I'd love to dress as well because I've been inspired and I'm a huge fan of her work. I have so many women who inspire me or, you know, Patti Smith because I listened to her song for a very, very long time as well.

19:49The same as Jane Campion or Annie Ernault or listening to Patti Smith. You know, some women that really made me who I am now, you know, by watching it and by listening to it. So those kind of women that really define culturally and still are still defining what we are now, you know, by filming or by painting or by photographing or by singing and writing. So, yeah, I have a lot of women that I would love to dress. Julia, I want to know what you're going to do the weekend after your show. What do you do to relax? What is a sort of time off? What does it look like? I have a house at the countryside not far from Paris.

20:30So coming back to the weekend after the show, I'm sure I'm going to be there. I guess I'm going to be there with maybe a glass of red wine or something and my close friends in blankets, you know, on the sofa, I would say. But then after I come back for my friend's show, you know, So I think it's going to be like a quick trip from Saturday to Sunday, maybe. And then I come back to work already on the next pre-collection, fall collection. And also to see my friend Nicolas Vuitton show on Tuesday. So yeah, but countryside definitely for the weekend after the show. Well, Julien, this has been such a pleasure.

21:15Thank you very much. and see you, I hope, soon when in Paris, you tell me. And let's have a real conversation when you're there next time. That would be great.

21:29That's it for the show. Bye.

21:36The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and Joanna Solotaro. Pran Bandy and Mike Kutchman are our mix engineers. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conor Nast's head of Global Audio.

21:58Right now, in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe. It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.

22:44Thank you.