How Law Roach Made Zendaya a Red Carpet Star

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Malle. And today we are bringing back one of our favorite episodes with stylist Law Roach. I don't think anyone dominates red carpet meth dressing quite like Law and Zendaya. This summer, the two of them really worked some unforgettable magic for the Odyssey and Spider-Man press tours. There's even a phrase on the Internet lately that I love, which is, Zendaya's best look is always her next one. And I really love that she has been wearing everything from Versace to fresh off the runway Schiaparelli couture to Machiaire Fecal. So very excited to see what Law and Zendaya come up with for Dune Part 3 in December.

0:43In our conversation, Choma and I asked Law how he is able to achieve these incredible looks on the red carpet. Specifically that insane Mugler look. You know the one from The Last Dune. Working with Celine Dion and his incredible career origin story. So here is our conversation with Law.

1:04Well, Law, it is such a treat to have you on. We've been talking about having you for ages, and this felt like the perfect moment because the big Vogue cover. Drumroll, yeah. Both two Vogue covers. I mean, which is pretty amazing. American Vogue and British Vogue. Zendaya is on the cover, and you, the fashion editor, are on both. which is incredible. And they're very different shoots. Yes. Yes. I know that was something that we talked about from the beginning, them being very different. Tell us a little bit about the concept for the shoots. Which one do you want to start with? We can start with British Ro.

1:43No, let's start with British Ro. So an interesting story is that we planned out both shoots at the same time. And I think working with Chiangla and working with Anna in her office and Chioma with the British Vogue team, it was very intentional that the shoots would be on the opposite end of the spectrum. And I think what was important is that Chioma decided to work with younger brands and British, you know, British brands, which is always so helpful to me and also exciting to me. And then the American Vogue was, you know, haute couture in Paris, shot by Annie Leibovitz, which is my little gay boy from the south side of Chicago, fantasy and dream.

2:36Two covers, because we saw, you know, British and American share cover stars before, but usually it's one big shoot. And for this to have two identities was really incredible and I feel so grateful. And I have to say, watching you work with Zendaya was one of the most special moments for me, being on set and seeing the dynamic between the two of you, how you collaborate, how you communicate. It's really this symbiotic relationship that you have because you understand each other seemingly without even having to speak. Well, that's 13 years in the making. We started together in 2011. Wow. How old was she?

3:20She was 13 turning 14. Oh, my God. So she was a baby. And I was 15 turning 16. So, you know, it's that's not true. But yeah, so we've grown up together and we've our relationship is very interesting. It's a really interesting dynamic. And we call each other, you know, big idea, small detail. And I'm the big idea and she's the small detail. So I have these big dreams and these grand dreams of like everything, how it should be and the way I see it in my dreams and the way I see it in my imagination. and she takes my big dreams and she grounds them and she makes them real and she makes them also fit to not only the story that I'm trying to tell, but she makes it in a way where it becomes this comprehensive story that we're both trying to tell.

4:17And we've had that job and that relationship since the beginning. It was always, I'm always like, oh, you should have, you know, hair that cascades down the hallway. And she's like, no, girl, no. You know, so it's the perfect balance. It's the perfect yin and yang. I do feel like you and Zendaya are so thoughtful and have such a good time crafting a narrative around her looks, whether it's in a photo shoot or on the red carpet. And I love the New York Times did a piece that Zendaya sort of killed it at method dressing, basically for her films. How do you decide, is something too much? Is it too little?

4:59Is it just enough? I loved in the video, the getting ready video for Vogue.com, you've said that for the first look for the Challengers press tour, you were going to just punch him in the face like this Loewe dress was going to have the tennis players actually on the dress. First of all, the print that was on the dress is actually, if I'm not mistaken, a grab from a shadow of actually her. So it's her character So that was on the dress. And we know Jonathan Anderson, for me, sits on that borderline of genius and insanity, which we love. Because he's the costume designer for the film. So it was, you know, very right and fitting that he would do some of the dressing, you know, create some of the looks for the tour.

5:44And we talked about it and we talked about having no fear of being literal. In some cases, people will have that conversation like, oh, it may be too costumey. And we look at everything we do as entertainment. It started out with us just entertaining each other. And then it grew into this thing of us entertaining the world. And we're happy with that. And, you know, some people are going to love some things and others are going to hate it. But at least we're starting conversations. and it just brings us so much joy to know that maybe in the middle of somebody's incredibly busy work day they have a few minutes to kind of criticize or compliment things that we've done together so we've been doing the method dressing although it just got a name very recently but we've been doing that for actually all the movies that she's done i love it actually when when you both take to the red carpet and you're part of the narrative and i remember when you were on the red carpet at the Met in 2019.

6:43And you were the fairy godmother. And obviously, Zendaya was Cinderella. Like, tell us a little bit about how that look came together and where that idea came from. I give her so much credit because she encourages me to be 100 % myself. And also has always pulled me into the narrative, right? and always wanted me to have a personality and a place. And she's always had this mindset that as she got big, I would get big with her. Because, you know, a lot of my critics are like, oh, he thinks he's the talent and oh, he thinks he's a star. And every time that you see me on the carpet with her or taking a picture with her, it's that because she's invited me into that space.

7:31The interesting part about MAD, so it was the theme that year, of course, we all know was Kemp. And I came up with this narrative about, and this story about her being Cinderella because she was right in the point of transitioning from Disney star and she was going into euphoria, which was a way that the world had never seen her. And, um, it was our way of kind of our last hurrah and a way to being a Disney princess, because I think at that point she was Like in people's eyes, at least she was the reigning Disney princess and kind of the last of that whole class of the Disney girls. And it was a way of showing that, but also saying goodbye to it.

8:14And because she was going into this new era of playing Rue, her character on Euphoria, and in a way that no one had ever seen Zendaya. And I was her fairy god brother. And we, you know, of course, we were with Tommy Hilfiger, and we were just coming off of that collaboration.

8:35The run-through will be back in just a moment.

8:52Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

9:22I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy brain with it. Right, we take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture and also in your everyday life. We go highbrow, we go lowbrow, we go everything in between. food culture to meme culture charlie xcx to tony morrison k-pop to the kennedys from horror movies to heated rivalry from the oscars to the med gala the golden bachelor to weathering heights great expectations to desperate housewives that's what we're talking about over here we're having fun it's critics at large from the new yorker every thursday wherever you get your podcasts

10:20i want to know law how you and Zendaya work together to get an outfit across the line. Like, let's take, for example, the insane vintage Mugler look, the sort of body armor that she wore. That had to come. Walk us through like A to Z, law to Z. That show and a lot of those looks from the mask that Terry Mugler, I think are all ingrained. If you're in fashion, that look is ingrained in your brain. And after the first Dune, press tour, she and I was just talking. And when there was like firm confirmation that they were going to do another one, we both kind of, she sent it to me. I already had it, you know, in my phone, in my favorites.

11:08And she was like, we should try this for the next press run. I was like, that happens to us a lot. Like she'll send me something or I'll send her something. We already have it saved. And so we started talking about it. And then when Mr. Mugler passed away, you know, I thought it could never happen. It would never happen because I know that he still was in charge of who got to, you know, where the archives. Then I started regretting that we never had a moment with him and we wouldn't have the opportunity to, you know, have that meeting and ask him, you know, could it be possible? And so I kind of conjured up enough bravery to reach out to Casey, Casey Carrella, the creative director of Mugler Now and the Mugler team and was like, hey, I got a crazy idea, but I want to ask you in person.

11:59And we had, we set up a meeting and I took her and we walked in into the atelier, his showroom, and we were like, we all sat down, We sat across from each other. It was so dramatic. It was like so dramatic. And I was like, well, we have an idea. Anybody knows my personality. I'm a little, you know, I'm a little mad. I was like, we have this amazing idea. We were like, our side was looking at their side. And he was like, yes. And I was like, so we would love to wear something from the archive. for one of her premieres. And he was like, yes, and tell me more. So I think I whipped out my phone and we looked at each other.

12:46I put the phone out. I was like, we want to wear this. Can you describe the outfit for maybe the one person listening who hasn't seen it and doesn't know what we're talking about? With affection, we'll just call it the robot. And you saw her wear it to the Dune premiere in London, the world premiere in London. And the interesting part about it is because right after we got to and say, Casey, you know, was giving us the seal of approval, like, yes, we make this happen, but we need to take measurements now. So because if, say, for instance, the measurement from elbow to wrist was off or knee to ankle was off, she wouldn't be able to wear it.

13:30Because it was an entire like it was a metal suit of armor. Unbelievable. It was a puzzle, but you put it on like a puzzle. It was all individual pieces. The pelvis, the thighs, the shin, the shoe, the arm, everything, the hands. So it was all like a puzzle, honestly. And so we took the measurements. And so we all just, we sat on pins and needles for them to compare the measurements. And they said, okay, it looks like the measurements will work. So then we scheduled a fitting. and again we're all like holding our breath you know to see if if it was looking i remember the first thing is when they took the shoe out and they put the shoe they put the shoe i looked at the shoe i said oh that's her size and casey he was like oh you can just look at the shot i said yeah i can look at a shoe anywhere tell you i can look at the shoe on someone's foot and tell you what size they are and i was like you are the fairy god brother i am yes the shoe i say the shoe it'll show it so she put the shoe on and the shoe fit and it was such like a cinderella moment wow oh my god they put the the the shin the shin then the shin fit and they put the thigh the thigh fit and then they she stepped into the pelvis the pelvic area and they put that up in that fit and then after that it just kept oh my god pieces on popping pieces on wow so they didn't have to remake any of it no no no no no it all just fit and it was i was literally in tears and could she move yes yes yes if you were to go and watch the video any video she the the thing was actual very mobile and the guy who actually made it with mr mugler was there he was at the fitting he came to london to get her help her get us dressed to get her in and out of the costume but la i want to know because you are so good at pulling incredible vintage looks from the archive you must have a photographic memory for a lot of these pieces.

15:29But what happens when it's not a Cinderella moment and it doesn't fit? Can you alter the pieces? Do they get remade? Do you just sort of wing it? Like, it just seems very tricky. It's all of those things, right? So just to give you a backstory, when I started working with Zendaya, and this is a story I've told a million times, I had a vintage store in Chicago. So my background, before becoming a stylist, I sold vintage. So I've always had a love and an affinity for things from the past, right? Which you inherited from your grandmother, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My grandmother used to take me thrifting all the time.

16:09And I just always looked at it as like a big treasure hunt because you kind of never knew what you were going to walk out the thrift store wheel. And I still have that joy when I'm able to search for vintage or go thrifting or whatever. And I read that she called it junking. Yeah, she did. She did. Yes, my grandma Eloise. That's so charming. Yeah. Aww. Because it was, you know, somebody's junk is another person's trash. I know they said trash, but junk as well. I had to use vintage starting out with her because nobody would loan us clothes. Like, no one would loan us clothes. So it was out of necessity that I actually got her to start falling in love with vintage as well.

16:51So, you know, that never left me. I think that's engraved in my DNA and now her. And so we've always done that throughout her career. She's always worn vintage. And now she's a collector as well. Law, who were your biggest fashion inspirations growing up? And how did you get your start in fashion? I had the vintage store and it was me and one of my best friends in Chicago. And, you know, I knew what a stylist was, but I also only knew styling through the lens of music. So I knew about, you know, of course, June Ambrose and Misa Hilton because culturally they were so important to us. And then one day Kanye came into the store and I watched him like go through every single piece of things that we had.

17:44And he turned the inside out. And the way he looked at clothes was amazing to me. and some way TMZ found out that he had came to the store. So we started to get all this attention. And I just started to get calls and emails from stylists all around the world. And at that moment, something went off in my head and I was just like, wait, wait, wait, this is a real thing. And I just started calling myself a stylist and then I started lying to people and telling them that I lived in New York. I got a New York phone number and I just kind of set myself up and told a lot of lies and used my credit card to buy a lot of looks and return them.

18:19I'm sorry, Barneys. Well, Barneys, I don't have to apologize to Barneys anymore, but I'm sorry to Sacks and Neiman's and Bergdorf's because I did a lot of returns. And yeah, and I just, you know, hustled until I made it.

18:37Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

19:07I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week, we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy-brand with it. Right. We take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture and also in your everyday life. We go highbrow. We go lowbrow. We go everything in between. Food culture to meme culture. Charlie XCX to Toni Morrison.

19:43K-pop to the Kennedys. From horror movies to heated rivalry. From the Oscars to the Met Gala. The Golden Bachelor to Wuthering Heights. Great expectations to Desperate Housewives. That's what we're talking about over here. We're having fun. It's Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. Law, I have to ask you about Celine. Yes. Because I love her so much. You were working with her for quite a while. and you really, I feel like the renaissance of Celine was a lot of what you were doing with her. And then you sort of came out of retirement for a day. You said you were unretired for a day to style her for the Grammys, which is such an epic moment.

20:24What's that experience been like? You know what? It happened, I think, 2016. And I'm still kind of shocked that it happened. I just got a call from my then manager and she called me. She said, Celine wants to speak to you. And I'm like, who is Celine? I'm like, who? Because I hadn't dreamt that big yet, right? And so she was like, Celine Dion. I was like, what? And she was like, Celine Dion wants to talk to you. And so we had a phone conversation and she invited me to Vegas. I went to see the show. And I also met her after the Billboard Awards. We talked about fashion. I kind of told her, you know, that I knew the brands that she was wearing.

21:05and I knew everything that she had, you know, wore and, you know, and she was like, and what do you think about it? I was like, I think it's great, but I think there's a lot of brands that, you know, that you should wear. Then there was a idea of what Celine Dion should look like. And my job going in without anyone saying this, I wanted to show the world how cool she was and how young she was. That led to her wearing Off-White. And then that led into her wearing the Vetements, the notorious Titanic sweatshirt. Oh, yeah. I love that one. I think what happens is I was able to disrupt the idea of what the world thought she was.

21:48And it really changed my life. So when they called me to do Grammys, and her team is so respectful. And they was like, hey, you know, we have a question. We know you're retiring. We respect for that. But is there any way that you can that you would do her for the Grammys? And I was like, absolute. I was like, I don't care where I'm in the world. I will be there for Celine. It would be the first time that people would see her out in public in years because she had been so sick. And I was like, yeah, I'll do anything for her. And just let me know when and where. You dressed her in this amazing, like, mustard yellow Valentino Couture coat.

22:30Yes. Yes. That I thought was so fabulous and this major necklace. What was the necklace? Tiffany's. Oh, it all, it really just was an amazing look. And I wondered, like, we're all thinking about her and we thought she was in such great shape at the Grammys. Any Celine update you can share with us? I can say I did a cover shoot with her that will be out very soon. And she was, it was just so incredible to watch her be back in her element and entertaining everybody on set. and she looked really, really great and she felt really great and strong. And I know that she is planning some really big things that I cannot share, but I think everyone who loves her and adores her will be very happy very soon to see her again.

23:27Well, that's exciting. Yeah, no, that's so good to hear. Yeah. So are you retired? Tell us. Okay. The internet is so mean. so people are it's like all these memes they're like i'm only retired if i don't like you which is not true um so for zendaya absolutely not never and she made that really clear when i announced it because to be quite honest when i when i said that i was retired i wanted to be done with everything and she let me breathe for a while then she called me she's like oh okay i know you're but I know that doesn't mean me. So in my mind, I would think I was retired as a stylist. And what I wanted to do is kind of, you know, use the opportunity to, and we may still do this in the future.

24:16I wanted to kind of be more of a creative director and hire a stylist. I want to give younger stylists that I think are talented or deserve a bigger platform the opportunities to dress her for certain things. You've mentored many stylists. Yeah, my babies. And I wanted to use that platform, but I don't think she was ready for that. She was just like, no, no, no, no. I got all these things coming and I need you to be you. And so, of course, I agree. And I really had no other choice, but still, out of all the things we've done for each other, how could I say no? And Celine Dion also, I could never say no to.

24:53Again, she changed my life. I do have one last little question and you might be able to give us a hint because obviously we know Zendaya is hosting the Met this year for the first time. Yes. And we know that nobody kills a theme like you. Can you give us a hint to maybe what we can expect? Or have you guys decided on what the look is? So let me stress everybody who's listening to this out As much as I'm stressed out about it We have no confirmed designer We have, no, and nobody's going to believe this But it's the honest to God truth We have no confirmed designer and we have no sketch Suspense So that's where I am right now Fingers crossed for me We know it's going to be magical But yes, we are slightly stressed for you Thank you I need to pass some of that off to everybody else.

25:50It was so wonderful to have you on the show today. Thank you for having me. It's always great to see you. Thank you for having me. And I'll see you soon. All right. Thank you. Bye, Law. Thank you so much. We love talking to you. Bye. Bye.

26:11The Run Through the Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Alex John Burns. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer. The show is engineered by Pran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman.

26:34Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

27:04I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week, we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy-brand with it. Right, we take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture and also in your everyday life. We go highbrow, we go lowbrow, we go everything in between. Food culture to meme culture, Charlie XCX to Toni Morrison.

27:40K-pop to the Kennedys. From horror movies to heated rivalry. From the Oscars to the Met Gala. The Golden Bachelor to Wuthering Heights. Great expectations to Desperate Housewives. That's what we're talking about over here. We're having fun. It's Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.