Inside Milan Fashion Week: Debuts at Gucci, Marni and Fendi

17:12Francesca Ragazzi:Thumbs up for Diesel. Uh, the next day on Wednesday, we started, uh, at Simone Bellotti's second show for Jill Sander, which was interesting. He said the first season he was focused on reducing and taking away. And here he wanted to add and embellish. And he, he was asking himself the question, can something superfluous be essential? So what do you think? Can it?

17:37Luke Leitch:I think the value of the superfluous has to lie in how much you treasure or appreciate it. Because if it's functionally superfluous, like your appendix, for instance, then are you fond of it? Does it, you know, and I think in this, in Simone's collection, there were, I wasn't aware of this sort of preamble at all, but I really enjoyed the slicing into the garments. I think to put exposure into sobriety was very interesting. I think there was such a lot of interplay between the immediate facade of his character and the second look. It looked initially like these were sometimes even quite daunting, very sophisticated characters, and then almost unavailable.

18:35Luke Leitch:And then there was a hint of availability, and I'm not being so basic as it might sound, but I think that it was a very layered collection just through really quite strong gesture. I thought it was great.

18:47Nicole Phelps:And there is these always hidden layers, for example, the poetry, the voice of the poetry written by Chiara Barzini. And spoken by Kim Gordon. Yeah, spoken by Kim Gordon. And it was that idea of the house above the sea. So I think it's very clear for Jill Sander, you need this layer concept, performative concept that you need to dig in to understand. Right.

19:15Francesca Ragazzi:The real big news of Wednesday in Milan was Maria Grazia Chiuri's Fendi debut. And what an incredible story. She leaves Dior and six months pass, barely, and she is rehired by LVMH at Fendi. So to me, that says that they know that this woman has the goods. What does it say to you guys?

19:38Luke Leitch:I think Fendi was in such an interesting place because we'd heard so many stories about Fendi over the last few years that didn't come to pass. And I think that as part of the LVMH group, which apart from L 'Orupiana, which is very successful for them at the moment, I understand, and companies in maybe the, you know, the jewelry and the other sectors, it's its biggest Italian property. And I think because of that, because it's such a French group, Fendi sometimes feels on the outskirts of it and has done for some years. And I think, you know, Maria Grazia is absolutely at the top of the echelons of contemporary design in terms of her track record.

20:27Luke Leitch:So I think having her there is very exciting for Fendi. And of course, there's many other dimensions because it's where she began.

20:32Francesca Ragazzi:What about you, Fran, when you were watching that show? To me, I was like, oh, yes, that is a coat that I could use in my life pretty badly, pretty desperately. What were your reactions?

20:44Nicole Phelps:The more I think of it is all these women showing in Milan, their collection is less about just one trend or one kind of women. I really see this multitude way of looking at women that wants real clothes for real life, a bit loose, but still chic. And I love, for example, even the simple shirt, creamy with the lace that was a bit open and all these details on the baguette that gets softer. Of course, this is hard to see on a show, but when you I'm sure when it gets to the store, you want all those pieces. And I loved the matchy gilet with the baguette, the fact that some pieces were very precious and other very essential that you could mix and match.

21:35Nicole Phelps:I really loved also the front row with many Italian actresses of different generations.

21:42Luke Leitch:I flew to Rome last week before London Fashion Week and went to speak to her at the Teatro della Cometta. And we had a great chat about what her plans for Fendi were, her emotional connection with it. She said some really great things. She said that, yes, she felt committed to Fendi. Yes, it was where much of her identity had grown in terms of her work career. But also, she talked passionately about loving all of fashion, about loving all houses. And she said very funnily that I could work anywhere. Not everywhere, she said, everywhere. which I thought was wonderful. She also, she slightly misunderstood a question I gave her, which I was simply asking about her plans for menswear.

22:31Luke Leitch:And I think she took it as a suggestion that I was saying that she hadn't designed menswear before, which wasn't the case because I reviewed her Valentino menswear and I interviewed her after those shows. But then she completely understandably laid into me slightly. She became very sadonic and ironic. And she basically hit me with sarcasm saying, ah, only men can be geniuses. Women are not up to that. And that, you know, really laying out the double standards of misogyny that we see and that we see often in fashion. And it's interesting, Francesca, you've just been talking, you guys have just been talking about this collection in terms of wearability.

23:17Luke Leitch:You've immediately put yourself into the position of inhabiting the garments, right? And I spend a lot of my time for Vogue Runway reviewing menswear shows. And when I'm reviewing menswear shows, I see myself, or I really don't, in the garments, but you place yourself in the garments. And I think there's no doubt that everything should be equal and nothing should be gendered and it should all be a free space. But of course, if you're designing for the gender that you are, you're not projecting your vision upon a different gender. And therefore, it seems funny to me that a vast majority of creative directors are male.

23:55Luke Leitch:And I think she's frustrated. She was declaring a frustration about that, but also that her successes have been, in the past, have been written off as a form of commercial rather than creative success.

24:07Francesca Ragazzi:Speaking of women designers, Meryl Roge, who was trained underneath Marc Jacobs and Dries Van Noten and launched her own label right as the pandemic was hitting, which is remarkable that it's still existing six years later, was named the creative director of Marnie last July. And she had her debut yesterday. And the responses that I've been seeing on social media and En Vogue Business, which, you know, goes out and talks to people in the audience after debut shows, is that it feels really good to see another woman in this kind of role in Italian fashion. What did you think, Fran?

24:51Nicole Phelps:Yeah, again, I think she played with the codes of Marnie and also injected her own way of seeing things and colors and the shirts and the layering. And I, you know, when I went backstage to say hi, the first thing, but how are you? Like, she really cares. She's very lovely. The kids, her kids were there. I think she really wants to bring back a much more accessible in the daily life way of living and wearing Marnie. And I thought it was also a bit sexy, like it was not that heavy. So I really liked it.

25:33Luke Leitch:I think Manifal's first time around, when it was being designed by its co-founder Consuelo, thought much of the appeal, apart from the very sort of distinct intellectual Milan identity of the design output, was that it felt like a female space. So I think that that's why at the beginning, Francesco Riso had some problems winning over. I think there were many people who were quite hostile to his entry. I remember they were at the brand, but actually I think he was really successful in finding his metier there. But I think there'll be a lot of core old school Marnie Files who will be willing to give this new 0.3 version ago and I think it's worth it but I also think just stripping away the identity of the designer completely for a moment and not being tokenistic or affirmative in terms of gender at all I just think it was a very interesting collection and if I hadn't known who was behind the curtain I still would have been interested in it it felt like it had a relationship with old Barney felt like it had a relationship with Meryl's knitwear expertise because her knitwear It was amazing.

26:43Luke Leitch:And she is a brilliant... Yeah, she's really, really brilliant at that.

26:48Nicole Phelps:I also love the little panties and the shoes were great. Honestly, I think Marni, I love the body of work of Francesco Rizzo. I think that also respected the connection to arts. I can really see this woman going to Salone del Mobile and the arts fair around the world. I think this colorful connection with the art world is maintained.

27:15Francesca Ragazzi:I spoke to Meryl in the lead up to her show and, you know, decided by the end of it that she was born to do this job. Not only did she buy a pair of Marnie wooden platforms, this is 2008 with her first paycheck from Marc Jacobs as a newcomer to New York City. And this was the era where women walked around town in platform sandals. Doesn't happen so much anymore. And even before that, when she was a teenager, she bought a green Marty skirt to wear to her older brother's wedding. And she spoke a lot about having grown up with the brand and how it really shaped her identity and sort of taught her how to love fashion.

28:02Francesca Ragazzi:And it's an incredible story that here she is actually at this brand, you know, 20 plus years, you know, later. And how often does that kind of thing happen in life, really? I mean, it's like kismet in a way. It's very cool. So Prada was also on Thursday, and it was a very interesting concept, this staging. And instead of having 60 models, they had 15 models who each came out four times in different versions of the outfits that they were wearing. They sort of peeled pieces away each time they came out. How quickly did you realize this was happening?

28:55Nicole Phelps:I realized it with Bella did. All of a sudden, she came back. That never happened before at Prada. She's also on the cover of Vogue Italia for March in Prada, shot by Gia Coppola. But yeah, I love the set. It was already there for men. So, but I mean, I noticed that some decor was added. I thought that was very sophisticated because for men, it was just the walls and they added those, the drawers.

29:30Luke Leitch:Ah, I didn't notice those.

29:31Nicole Phelps:Yes. So I noticed like a female sort of touch added.

29:37Luke Leitch:And also there were these leather garments at which the edges of the leather surfacing had been frailed off, peeled off as if there were paint falling off a wall. And the set was made up of the interior of, it felt like a huge hotel. Maybe that didn't have floors anymore, but a few fireplaces suspended into the side. And then you understood that in a way that was showing the outside of the onion. I don't know, maybe this was an onion show. So we started with a full onion and every, you know, I saw it when Julie came back because she always opens those shows, doesn't she? And I really enjoy watching that look because it's normally the starting point.

30:17Luke Leitch:So to see her come back so fast was like, oh, what's going on? And then you saw that effectively she was just, you know, wearing very similar look, minus one piece to the first time. What I didn't really understand at the end of the day, because there's always a kind of greater rationale at Prada. They will talk about maybe it affects some form of mood or some form of instincts. And I didn't quite understand in the women's wear what the rationale behind all the removal was, whether it was about honesty, whether it was about bearing yourself. I don't know. Did you guys get any insight about what that artistic direction was?

30:54Francesca Ragazzi:It's always hard to get close to Mucha and Raph after the show because it's such a mob scene. And this season, even though I said this last season, was more of a mob scene than usual. So it can be sometimes quite difficult to hear what they have to say. But they were talking about the complexities of life and leaving room for personal choice. And it's a really different moment than, you know, once upon a time when designers sort of said, and now we will all wear, you know, 12-inch miniskirts or, and now you must have a padded shoulder.

31:41Luke Leitch:Everything's splintered, right? Everybody has their own point of view. Everything is so splintered. It's kaleidoscope.

31:45Francesca Ragazzi:It's sort of like looking at it the same way they did a year ago when they were talking about the algorithm and how they were sort of fighting against the algorithm. This feels a little like fighting against the algorithm in a different way. I think also Prada right now is like a brand that has been at the top of the fashion, you know, pyramid for 30 years. And they have so much material to play with. And because Raph has joined Miuccia as of 2020, they are, you know, they're really sort of mining the codes in the past in a way.

32:23Nicole Phelps:But really, the more you look at every outfit, like you can see four different outfits, like the layering things is impressive. Like you can, it's warm and then it's cold and then you have to go to a cocktail and then you have to go to the office and then you have to go to little underground moment in your life. Like it really feels like there is so many different moments of the day in every look, but you still want to have.

32:49Francesca Ragazzi:I mean, you could say it's sort of undermining because in a way they're sending a message that you have everything you need already in your closet, which is an interesting thing for designers to do. I found it, you know, you could say it's quite perplexing for designers to be making that point. But that's why I said in my review that I found it sort of humane. It's like, actually, yes, we do have a lot of stuff. What are you expecting from Saturdays and Sunday shows? We have yet to see Bottega Veneta. We have yet to see Dolce & Gabbana and Giorgio Armani.

33:26Nicole Phelps:Well, I went to Emporio Armani. I really love the collection. Completely new casting. Again, there were women who were petite. I never saw petite at an Armani show. And I could really see Silvana in many of the outfits. Sovanna is Giorgio Armani's niece. Exactly. And I loved that there was a moment in which many women came out with the shirts put in different ways, but a bit loose, open up. But I think we see this effortless and lighter way of wearing even menswear and this kind of approach that I found also at Todd's, which I loved. Matteo Tamburini's collection, I think, was one of his best at Todd's.

34:15Luke Leitch:And I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens at Giorgio on Sunday, because I think that will be a key key moment for Silvana. That house, I think, is possibly that line is possibly the most emblematic and important line and label in all of Milan, because I think without it, Milan would not be as it is. So I think it's the foundation. I think it It is the Duomo of Milan fashion. And I think that Silvana is brilliantly placed to continue it. But, you know, she spoke to our colleague Tiziana about her plans for it. And I think it will need not just to be a retrospective and a tribute. It will need to look at the world around us now and engage the legacy of Giorgio with that.

35:07Nicole Phelps:Oh, definitely.

35:08Francesca Ragazzi:We're going to go see Dolce & Gabbana tomorrow. how will they be able to top last year's star sighting of Miranda Priestly? That is the question.

35:16Luke Leitch:Surely there's no one more famous.

35:21Francesca Ragazzi:Thank you, Fran. Thank you, Luke. Grazie.

35:24Luke Leitch:Grazie.

35:28Francesca Ragazzi:We're late for Moschino. We gotta go. We're going to take a quick break.

35:40Francesca Ragazzi:Sometimes people ask me which search terms I use whenever I'm on eBay. So I search a lot of deadstock. That's a term that I throw in there a lot. Deadstock means that no one's ever worn it before, but it is like an archival piece or it's a vintage piece. And so that's a great thing to find on eBay. There's a ton of deadstock vintage. And it's just kind of like comforting to know that like you're the first person taking this like piece on its maiden voyage, even if it's 50 years old. eBay offers this departure from the everyday that ends up feeling totally you.

36:20Francesca Ragazzi:We're walking into Mosquino. Yes, what is this place again, Debra? It is the Leonardo da Vinci Museum of Science and Technology. And there's a huge rocket in the courtyard.

36:41Francesca Ragazzi:Okay, we follow you. Lots of photo shoots happening.

36:48Luke Leitch:We're on our way backstage. Ciao!

36:53Francesca Ragazzi:How are you? This is my colleague Alex. Nice to meet you. Welcome. Oh my God. Zoma starting.

37:05Francesca Ragazzi:Okay, we're backstage at Moschino and we're looking at the board with all the looks and creative director, designer Adrian Apiolazza just came out right now and he's talking to Nicole, walking her through everything right before the show starts.

37:42All right.

37:43Francesca Ragazzi:Pronto. Pronto. Pronto. Say pronta. Are you ready? Si. Okay. What did you think? Well, Moschino's Adrian Apiolazza is from Argentina, and he decided to go back to his roots. I think he spent some time there over the holidays, or maybe it was last summer, and he made a collection devoted to Argentina. And so there were all sorts of Argentinian tropes. There was Eva Perón. There was the tango. There were churro cellars. Churro cellars, bien sûr. These beautiful, which I really loved, beautiful full pants with a blazer, which sort of reminded me of Lueve, which is where Adrian was before he got the Moschino job.

38:36Francesca Ragazzi:And this is fitting that he was thinking about roots because I think identity is like one of the key words of the season here in Milan with designers thinking about who they are and why they're in business, what they sell, and really digging into that. Were there any looks, you mentioned some of the ones that you liked, were there any looks that stood out to you? Well, very interesting was the last look, which was a, I think it was a black suit, and underneath the model wore a printed shirt printed with euros and shoes that were like a sort of a jumble of shredded fabric euros. And she carried a piggy bank purse clutch.

39:26Francesca Ragazzi:And Adrian said that he was making a comment on the, I guess you could say the corporate-ification of fashion, the way that money trumps creativity. These are all businesses that are being run, very large businesses. So that's natural. but I think that the designers who are asked to be creative season in and season out feel a great deal of pressure. I thought this was a creative but also quite relatable and wearable collection from Adrian. And where are you headed now? I'm going to the show of a young designer named Galeeb Gasinoff, and I saw him for the first time last season and I thought his clothes were very poetic and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does now.

40:31Francesca Ragazzi:That's it for the run through. Next up, Parigi. Ciao! Ciao, ciao.

40:43Francesca Ragazzi:The Run-Thru is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and Alex John Burns, with help from Emily Elias. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman.

41:02Francesca Ragazzi:My first job in New York City was as a trend forecaster. I do trend forecasting still, and eBay is a part of that because I'll search for things that I'm seeing around, and it will end up directing me in places that I could have never anticipated. And one of the trends that I'm seeing these days is crafting things that are made by hand. And so playing with clothes and accessories to create something kind of distinctive for your wardrobe is a great way of doing it. And getting supplies off of eBay is my favorite thing for it. I'll get like maybe a pair of slippers that I'm wearing right now and then cut them in a specific way.

41:36Francesca Ragazzi:And then they're totally my own. And I feel like it's a great resource to create your own trends because then you can both feel like you're bringing something back to life. You're already like pulling it out of the eBay archives. And then you're also adjusting it so that it really expresses your own style, which is something that, you know, people really want right now whenever they are feeling like so algorithmic about the style that's being pushed to them. That doesn't have to be perfect. Things can have rough edges and that sometimes makes them feel more special.