Isaac Mizrahi Talks Food, Culture; Says “I Don’t Really Feel Unzipped Changed my Life”

27:20I will say that. And again, it was merit, you know, merit, merit, merit. And you'll ask any of designers my age about that. In those days, it really was. If you did something that was better than what others did, it was noticed. And they would shoot it and they would run it, you know. So unzipped and it changing my life, you know. I don't really feel it changed my life. I don't. And by the way, I don't notice those things. So you might be right. Your observation as an historian is probably more accurate than mine as a human being living through something because I don't – I swear to God, it's like I understand the necessity and the importance of promotion and of blowing your horn and all that.

28:08I do. And I'm good at that, right? But it doesn't change my life if people like something or I'm more famous or not famous. So I don't really check those boxes. And I know there are those who do. You know, today I'm not really sure. I don't know what makes a designer brand. And I do wonder about what really sells in the end. Like today I don't really – I don't know who the woman is they're actually working for. I don't know if there's a woman out there who's going to the couture and buying that. You know what I mean? I think I don't know who that is. You think there's too much of a disconnect between the runway and reality?

28:51Yeah. Yeah. I think they're fabulous visual shows, you know. But I just don't know. I don't ever see people in real life dressed like that. And I might be wrong, but it feels like, you know, like Ann Bass would go to a Dior show, right? And she would come away with a beautiful evening gown, which was fur trimmed or like some amazing gray suit that she could wear to dinner or whatever with her amazing, you know, verdura, blah, blah, blah. You know, it was like a real thing. Or any of those women who went to the couture and bought those Saint Laurent dresses or those suits, I mean, dresses, suits, Nan Kempner, those ladies, you know, it was a different thing.

29:36So I'm not sure, like, who are they, first of all? Can you say who these socialites or people that we, like, okay, so— I don't travel in their world, that's for sure. No, but listen, if you're Cardi B, okay, you got something to wear this season, you know, in your video. And maybe that's what it's about. Or if you're Charlize and you need something to wear the Oscars, you got something, you got it, you know. But I don't know if they're buying it as much as negotiating to wear it. And in those days, people had to buy clothes. I mean, I used to work with Liza all the time, and she used to buy clothes.

30:10I mean, granted, she got it at Holst. Liza Minnelli. Liza Minnelli, right. But she would buy the clothes. I mean, like, she used to shop, you know what I mean? And Betty Hallbrich would come with her, and they would shop, and it was something. She was the legendary Bergdorf's. Yes, Betty Hallbrich. Or, like, Candy Bergen would come and buy stuff, you know. Or, like, I remember Mike Nichols came down with a fabulous woman who was mad. Diane Sawyer. Diane Sawyer, who I adored, and I got to know her. And they bought things that were crazy, but they bought stuff, you know? Sounds to me like you're talking about the corporatization of fashion.

30:44Like there was once a time where it was more of a metier and you're working more like dressmaker. You're working closer with your clients. Yes, yes. You like those days. Or like if you used to go to the ballet, which I did my whole life, right? Like, and then when I was a kid, it was packed every night because you had Balanchine, you had Kenneth McMeow. You had all these incredible choreographers who killed themselves to put butts in seats. They would commission music from Stravinsky and from unbelievable people, right? And so you had to see those shows. And then it became this kind of a not-for-profit thing, and people kind of breathed a little bit, and they didn't really need to sell tickets, right?

31:25And I don't know if people need to sell things anymore. Because they're selling bags or they're selling perfume. They're selling bags and perfume and shoes, right? Exactly. So I think that's the difference. In those days, in the 90s, you had to sell dresses. And also, there was a critical dialogue. Like, I'm not sure there's a critical dialogue anymore. I think maybe you write some things and Vanessa writes some things occasionally, but it's not what it used to be where it was like, you know, the first line. Slinging arrows. Yeah. Where it's like, well, he failed. You know, he failed at this, he failed at that.

31:58It was like, whoa, right? And no, you don't get that. That's when it's where daily reviews were unbylined, though, if I remember. It was maybe easier for them to be harsh. You knew who they were. You knew who they were writing because they were in the front row taking copious notes, you know. The Run-Through will be back with Nicole and Isaac Mizrahi.

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33:33So I miss the 90s. What do you miss most about the 90s? Well, first of all, my cute body. I had such a cute body. And listen, I think that's why I don't like seeing the movie so much, you know? Sometimes I have to sit through it. But there's something, the tragedy to me, the biggest tragedy in life, right, when somebody dies, like when Dolly Parton dies, when Tim Curry dies, right? It's the passage of time, darling. You know, it's like, I don't know about you, every Friday night, my entire, for two years, I went to the Rocky Horror Picture Show on Waverly, at the Waverly Theater in Greenwich Village.

34:12And, you know, with the lighters and the umbrella and the rice. And there was Tim Curry every Friday night. And he was so gorgeous and so cocky and so funny and so avant-garde and right, you know. And New York was such a great, incredible place. And now it's passed. A lot of time has passed. Everybody's dying. And so that's what I find to be a little bit tragic. That's why I don't like to look at things from the past because it makes me go like, aging is, as my husband says, aging is real. It is real. Aging is real. Yes, indeed. I watched the movie on Sunday night with a house full of guys. It was my husband, my 18-year-old son, and our family friend.

34:54And in their honor, they want to know all about Eartha Kitt. What was it like meeting Eartha Kitt? Well, you know what? I always worshipped Eartha Kitt. And I used her music all the time in my shows. And here and there, I heard from how happy she was. Or, please, thank you so much. Right? But I never really met her. And then at one point, Douglas said, get in the car. We're going to the Carlisle. And I was like, why is that? And he said, we're going to meet Eartha Kitt. And I was like, oh, no, we're not. I thought, really? How stupid. That doesn't tell any part of the real story that's going on.

35:21And he was like, well, just get in the car. And I was like, no. And we had like a real head-to-head fight about it. And finally, I just was like, okay, shut up. I'm in the car. And then it was like, oh, my God, I'm in the room with Eartha Kitt. You know, the reason I didn't understand what he was doing is I thought he was telling a story and we were shooting on the shot list. And this was something that wasn't on. It just occurred. It was an opportunity. Somehow it was set up without telling me. And then at the last minute, it was like, well, wait a minute. I thought I was supposed to be in on this, you know?

35:53So I was forced to go. And then it becomes the centerpiece of this movie, you know? How fabulous she was. How fabulous she was. So talk about that, you and Douglas. Were there lots of disagreements? Are there moments that you fought about not being in the film or stuff you wish that were in the film that isn't? No, I mean, again, I swear to you, all we thought about was like the what? The Langer. You know, it's like he actually, I'm not kidding you. He had this apartment in the East Village on like Avenue A and like Second Street or something, right? And he actually had this giant machine called an Avid.

36:31That was what you edited film in those days on, an Avid, right? And he had a big Avid brought to his living room. So he had this big editing suite for months just in the middle of his living room. And he would just sit there editing, editing. It was like, darling, move it. Come on. How long does it take to edit this shit? You know, right? And so that was him. And those were the things I used to fight about. So when you rewatched it recently, what was your favorite part? I think I loved the part where it shows me sitting in my little enclosure doing those sketches and smoking. I just used to love listening to music and sketching and kind of, you know, what's the word?

37:13Receiving the muses, right? Receiving the muses and smoking. And smoking was a big part of receiving the muses, you know. And what's funny is no matter who it was looking at sketches, I don't care if it was the smartest editor in the world. They didn't know what they were looking at. The only other person who knew what they were looking at were other designers or people makers, you know. But people would look at these sketches and go, hmm, nice. And then I would be fitting the dress and like, what the hell is that? It's gorgeous. And I'm like, darling, the sketch has been there for months, you know, and you're just going, oh, that's gorgeous.

37:46Really? Really. My son was very impressed that all of those sketches were yours, by the way. Yeah, of course. Well, yeah. Yeah. But you know what? Talk to Christian Lacroix. Talk to Marc Jacobs. Talk to people who sketch, you know. People sketch. They do. I think they still do, you know. Some of them. Not a lot. Yeah. This is, I think, the best fashion film ever. And one of my big criticisms of Hollywood and fashion is that it seems to get it wrong. Hollywood really sort of messes it up. I know. Do you agree? I do. I fully agree, yes. Why do you think it's so hard to get fashion right? Because I think either it skews in favor of describing a business and a process.

38:35And there's that whole speech in Devil Wears Prada about Cerulean Blue, which, oh, if there's anything worse in this world than that speech, you will have to show it to me. Because I'm sorry, darling, that speech, it doesn't make any sense, you know. And I also love that movie. But it's just they try so hard to explain how it trickles down and how blah, blah, blah, blah. Stop. Either make it about Meryl and Anne Hathaway or shut up. You know what I mean? That's my feeling. So I like it when it's a story and I like it when it's about an industry or when it's a glamorized thing like these movies in the 50s about the fashion business like Backstreet or something.

39:16Oh, my God. Backstreet, darling. I got to see it. Backstreet with Susan Hayward. Oh, you'll die. You'll die. It's about a fabulous fashion designer. And it's so ridiculous. It doesn't do a thing. It's just funny and glamorous and beautiful. Right. So do that. You know, if you look at a lot of other fashion documentaries, there really isn't a whole lot of story. There aren't a whole lot of laughs. That's another thing. Fashion people rarely allow themselves to be, like, laughed at, at least in those days. Like, maybe now you have people understanding that it's really good to be laughed at and it's really good to laugh at yourself.

39:50But in those days, not so much. Let's go back before Unzipped. You grew up in Brooklyn. Yes, I did. How did you know you wanted to be in fashion? What was your first fashion memory? You know, I really wanted to be in show business. That's what I wanted to do. And I went to performing arts high school. I was lucky because I grew up in this very crazy kind of parochial, terrifying community, which did not value creativity. They did not value homosexuality, honey. That was not at all persona non grata. You know, like really not a good thing. And then I got accepted to Performing Arts High School through the auspices of this wonderful teacher at the yeshiva.

40:34She was like, maybe not. Maybe you should go here. And she was great. And I got in. And I was just like, this is what I was supposed to do. I used to make puppet shows. And I did female impersonations when I was eight years old. And so I landed at Performing Arts High School. And it was like the best possible world. world. You know, after I got over the culture shock of it, you know, from Yeshiva to Performing Arts High School on 46th Street, seriously, between Sixth Avenue and Broadway, okay? That's where I went to high school in 1978, all right? So you cannot imagine the squalor, darling, the squalor.

41:09And then towards the last year, I just thought, I got to get out of this house. I got to start making money. Who's going to cast this? I'll never get cast when you have my classmates at the time who were so beautiful and so easily seen as stars. I did not see myself as a movie star in that way. And so I decided I was quite good, you know, I was making clothes and selling clothes and making and selling clothes as this kind of way to make money. And that's what I thought. I thought it'll just be easier for you to get a job as a design assistant. So I kind of changed horses. So it was a practical decision.

41:48It was a practical decision. Wow. Yeah. It was. And then that happened. I worked for Perry Ellis, and that was so inspiring. I have to tell you, my dear, that was an incredibly inspiring place, you know. And it would have changed anybody. Like, if you had been in that world with Andre stopping by and Carrie Donovan stopping by and the fabrics and the flowers and the, I mean, just the parties and— So you were seduced by fashion. And then I worked for Jeffrey Banks for a minute. I worked for Calvin Klein for two or three years. And then I went on my own, right? Because I thought, okay, if I'm going to make money and I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it.

42:29And then this happened. So here I am. And now I'm trying to— Now you are a star. I am. Now you have a movie star. Well, maybe so. I loved you in Marty Supreme. Thank you. Isn't that a good movie? Such a good movie. Such a good movie. Before we get into your life as a cabaret and movie star, I want to talk also about your recent assignment. You went back to Target. Yes, I did. I did. So you are now the creative director at large. That's right. What does that mean at Target? It just means that I, at a very high level, kind of look at things and encourage the incredibly talented people that work there.

43:04And I hopefully am bringing out stuff. It's almost like design education or something. And I feel like when I worked there in 2001 or whatever, and I did that first collaboration, it was extremely ahead of like all everything. It was before you had Uniqlo. It was before you had all of it. Practically before H &M and Zara. It was definitely before H &M and Zara. But the point is, so it was a real crusade. Because I was doing a one-man show off Broadway. I was working on a series. I had a talk show. And I thought, well, no, no, no. I'm not doing it. But then this thing came in from Target. And I was like, actually, that's hilarious.

43:48I would do that, you know, because then it would be like another one of my dreams, which is to actually make stuff better and make stuff that everybody loved that could be really democratic. You know, so we did that. And we did it. And we did it for seven years, you know. And then we moved on and blah, blah. And we moved on. And now all these years later, I feel like I look at other retailers and other people who do fashion and clothes and design. And I just wish for them because I deeply care about this is my this part of my legacy. So when it came up as a subject, I was very happy to talk about it.

44:26And here I am, you know. Moving on, you have a new show, a new cabaret show. I do. Well, I always do. I mean, I always have a new cabaret. I'm always writing jokes at 3 o 'clock in the morning because that's what I do. And I have an incredible musical director, Ben Waltzer, and we're always texting each other. And I'm always getting ideas and giving ideas and sending him recordings of things that I like. And, you know, and it's something ongoing. I have a yearly residence at the Carlisle for two or three weeks. You know, this year I'm doing a week at the holidays and then two weeks in the winter, right?

45:00And then I have a yearly summer residence at 54 Below, which I just completed in August, which is another incredibly fun kind of Broadway room, you know. And so those are the two poles. And then in between, I do concerts at different venues, like at the Wallace Annenberg in L.A. or at, like, the Tillis Center, wherever it is, like all these different centers. And musically, we are very, very prepared. You know, we rehearse our heads off, right? For some reason, I don't know. I feel like I'm in that room with a bunch of people who – it's not going anywhere. Like we'll keep this amongst ourselves.

45:39Except – I know. I know. I know. It's terrible. It's a stupid thing. It's like, what are you thinking, right? Like, oh, my God. What's wrong with you? You know? Yeah. Except what? You posted on Instagram that in one of your cabaret acts, you were talking about being on Ambien and writing to my boss, Anna Wintour, at three in the morning. And that's all true. I did that, I mean, in the day when everybody was on Ambien, right? Because sometimes I would wake up in the morning and my husband would say, darling, I had to literally lock you in the room in London because you were literally in the lobby at Claridge's, like asking in an English accent, speaking in an English accent, like at three o 'clock in the morning.

46:20So I put you in the room and locked you in and took another room, like literally. I'm not kidding. So one night I texted Anna like all because I'd been talking to my mother before and she was talking about the September issue and there used to be two issues and it was so fabulous and blah, blah, blah. So I wrote this long text to Anna at three in the morning or four in the morning and sent it because I was on crazy ambient. And the next day in the morning I saw like not even a full word. It was like the letters, are you okay, Anna? I'm not kidding. Are you okay? That's what she wrote back. And I thought, oh, and then, of course, you read back what you wrote.

46:57It was blathery, blithery, blathery stuff. So anyway, this is true. Now I know why I don't take Ambien. No, don't take Ambien. I could suggest a few other things if you're interested. So how do you rank your passions, fashion, performance? You know, I have to say, like, because they're neck and neck, especially now, you know, especially now. Like, right now, I'm so excited by the prospects of what's going on at Target. It's like, I can't believe where I landed with this. It's just such a great thing that happened, right? And I had sort of thought, okay, well, that's a past chapter. Turn the page, fashion.

47:42Turn the page. But then that came up, and it was like, oh, wait a minute. Excuse me. Whoa. Stop everything. And also, it's just the rapport is amazing. I work with this person, Jenna. She is so amazing. I work with Tara. I work with Cara. Everyone's name is Cara, Mara, Tara, Jenna, Jen, or Jennifer. You know, it's a crazy world, but I know the difference, and I love them all. And they're all brand new to the brands. Everybody's like, there's a bunch of new people. And it's just so exciting to love people that you work with so much and to feel like you're being heard. And so, like, right now, I love it just as much as I love anything to do with my shows.

48:20So I mentioned Marty Supreme. That's not the only TV show or movie you've been in. You had a Sex and the City cameo briefly. You were on Ugly Betty, right? That's right. I was in several Woody Allen movies. You know that, but I don't know if we talk about Woody Allen. Do you, well, first of all, tell us a little bit about being on set at Marty Supreme, because it was such a cast of New York characters. Naomi Fry, the New Yorker writer, I think, had a little part. Kim Hastrider, the darling Kim Hastrider. Well, it was a bunch of days. It was like three or four days. And the one day when I shot that scene in the dressing room, I thought they would cut it.

48:59Because one of the days when I showed up to do this giant scene where they taped the play that Gwyneth was supposed to be in, right, and we were supposed to tape that scene after. And it was just the one scene took too long. So they canceled. I was like, oh, there goes my scene. I guess that's getting cut. And then they called to reschedule it a few weeks later. I was like, oh, okay, I'm there. And then I showed up, and it was literally from like 7 in the morning till 7 at night. I could not believe the pains that Josh took to really get it right. Josh Safdie, the director of Marty Supreme. I couldn't believe the pains he took with me, of course, and with Timmy and with Gwyneth, you know.

49:41And it was my first time meeting Timothy. Oh, yes. That was my next question. Tell me all about that. Well, I mean, you know, they gave him this crazy prosthetic sort of bad skin. And, you know, and he had this sort of febrile little mustache, which was so, I was like, who's that? Oh, my God, it's Tim Chalamet, right? And he was incredible. You know, he came over to me and he like, he asked me and then he hugged me. I was like, he was like, can I hug you? I was like, excuse me? You could do more than hug me. Do anything you want, you know? And he was such a gentleman and so nice. And then Gwyneth I've known for a million years.

50:13So that was like a reconnection of sorts, you know, but yeah. So are there any movies in your future? Not at the moment. You know, there's a series that I'm hoping will come through that I did a table read for called Tiny Hot Dogs, which I love. That sounds good. I know. It's a very, very good script. I hope that someone decides to make it. Well, that's a good pivot to talk about food. Yeah. Yeah. Food. Oh, my God. You know, I'm on a GLP-1. Yes. How's it going? It's going really well. I lost 12 pounds in like under two months. That's amazing, right? It's funny, like the subject of food is somehow not as featured as it was before.

50:57In your life, you mean. June, yeah, in my life. And then all of a sudden I go crazy and I have a night where I've got to make some kind of crazy giant pasta ordeal and some big dessert ordeal and ice cream and blah, blah. And then I have three bites of it and I can't eat anymore. You know, it's a crazy thing. Talk about your, if you will, because you've talked about this before in the past and as well as at the beginning of this episode that you, you know, you have body issues. Yes, I do. I do. And I talk about it a lot in my cabaret, and I feel I can because it's me and it's my body I'm talking about.

51:34So I'm not, like, body shaming anyone. I'm just talking about what it's like growing up as a fat kid. You know, I was a really fat kid, which was another reason why I couldn't see myself as a star. Because I thought, you know, fat people are just never going to be cast, right? Or they're going to be cast as a buffoon, which I'm fine with. But I want to do Orlando in As You Like It. I don't always want to be Falstaff. You know, I like Shakespeare, whatever it is. And so being fat, you never see yourself as quite thin enough, you know. Recently, Dolly Parton died. And we posted on Instagram this interview I did with her from like 2003 or something like that.

52:16And I was so thin. And I looked so cute. And I look at that and I go, darling, do you remember being in that body thinking you were the fattest person in the room, you know? Because, of course, when you work with Kate Moss and you work with I don't know who, you are the fattest person in the world. Not to mention the ballerinas that I used to, you know, I used to make costumes for the ballet. So between ballerinas and supermodels, you are the fattest person. Yeah, I always come home from Fashion Month and I say I have body dysmorphia for a couple of weeks. Yeah. And so multiply that by 100. You know, I write this, I wrote this in my memoir, which is like, I was hurt by being bullied, you know, for being effeminate and flamboyant and gay, but not nearly as much as I was hurt by people who would bully me about being a fat person, you know.

53:09I think because the fat thing was such a thing for my mother. My mother was just so obsessed with, as so many Jewish mothers are. Either they overfeed you or they're like, stop eating. Stop. Just stop eating. The first bite tastes just the same as the second and third. It's like, shut your mouth. And I always say this in my show. I say like, and all this body positivity, blah, blah, blah. How's that going for you? You know? Your talk about your mom reminded me of how charmed I was about your relationship in the movie. I mean, I love the bits with your mom and you. She loves you so much. Right.

53:53Well, I mean, I feel like it was a qualified kind of a thing. She loved that I was a fashion designer. She loved it, you know. And let's put it this way. When I was doing female impersonations in the driveway on Avenue J in Brooklyn, when I was doing like Shirley Bassey and Barbara Streisand and Liza, it was not a source of pride. Let's put it that was not a source of pride for the Mizrahi family, you know. And they were very good at sort of looking away and kind of trying to discourage. Because, again, in this very religious, crazy Jewish, right, like God forbid, you know. Well, we're running out of time.

54:31And since we've talked about diets of one kind, I want to ask you about your cultural diet. You consume a lot. Obviously, you were watching Backstreet, the 1950s movie as a child in the 60s or 70s. What are you liking now? What am I liking now? You know, I go to see a lot of shows. Oh, you know what I love? There's a show at the Jewish Museum, the Wiener Werkstatt Show, which is amazingly beautiful. There's also a beautiful show at the Met of Orientalists. Orientalism, oh, my God. It is so beautiful and endless. And you can't get it. By the end, you're like, more, more. You know, it's so beautiful.

55:11Also, the Giacometti at the Temple of Dendor. I mean, like so much. There's a lot of good art right now. There was that amazing Duchamp show. So beautiful. And I went to – I've been going to a million Broadway shows. I love – I always love the stupidest shows. I love shows that have the least amount of, like, kind of gravitas. I love Titanic more than anything. I love Jellicle Ball so much, you know. And, of course, I loved Death of a Salesman and I love Schmigadoon and I love going to plays and I love going to Broadway plays. But something about a Broadway house, it's a sacred thing. I walk in there, it's like I'm going to shul or something, you know.

55:50I swear to God. It feels so deeply, deeply spiritually rewarding, even when I don't like something, especially when I don't like it. I love not liking things, by the way. I'm not going to make you tell us what you didn't like. I don't like a lot of things. And sometimes I leave, which I think is a prerogative, if you buy the tickets, which is mostly why I buy tickets to things. Are you going to go to the premiere, the first showing at the Film Forum of Unzipped in September? Of course I am. Are you kidding? I'm so going. I mean, I have to go because I think it's like a talkback. Okay. I have to go.

56:26Yeah. I'm not sure whether or not I have to sit through it, but we'll see. One last question. And I always ask this question of designers. What advice you have for aspiring designers? But since you're also a performer, what is your advice for young performers? You know, my advice for all artists is just don't listen to advice. Just don't listen to it. I got some shitty advice in my life, and I tried to listen to it, and it was always bad. I mean, it's like they try to get you to sort of love your family. They try to get you to think that it's important to save your money. They try to get you to think that you're supposed to do this or that.

57:03You're not supposed to. You're not supposed to. Nobody has an easy time of anything. So that's my advice. Just ignore any advice. If someone gives you advice, thank them and then literally toss it aside. Well, Isaac, this has been such a delight for me. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. It was so fun.

57:27That's it for The Run-Through. Bye.

57:32The Run-Through of Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Alex John Burns. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer. The show is engineered by Pran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman.

57:49I want to date with Roars, Carti says. Roars? Raka asks. This is the love story of real hinge couple Carti and Raka. Written and read by me, Nicola Dynan. Listen to the free audiobook now. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode, available on Plus and Pro Plans.

58:36The wild world of college football continues Labor Day weekend. On Saturday, East Carolina looks to shock Alabama, and Baylor and Auburn battle it out in Atlanta in the Aflac kickoff game. Then Clemson hits the road, looking to spoil Lane Kiffin's Death Valley debut. Sunday night, it's Louisville versus Ole Miss in Nashville in the inaugural Liberty Mutual Music City kickoff game. College Football Labor Day weekend continues Saturday and Sunday on ABC and the ESPN app.