Jonathan Anderson on Loewe, JW Anderson, and Costume Designing Queer

0:06This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel. And I'm Chomanardi. Today we have a very special guest, an award-winning guest on our show who recently scooped Designer of the Year at the British Fashion Awards on Monday, actually. I know. I was very excited because, you know, the journalist in me aching for a news peg thought that was an excellent moment to add to our intro of this prestigious guest who we've been trying to get on the show since we launched. His reputation precedes him. I understand why he's hard to get because he's worth it, right? He's worth the wait. Jonathan is truly the man who does it all.

0:45He's the creative director of Loewe, as well as his namesake brand, J.W. Anderson. And he is the costume designer for Luca Guadagnino's newest film, Queer, with Daniel Craig and Drew Starkey. Yeah, I mean, I really loved watching Queer. It was like this crazy, psychedelic trip of a movie about an adaptation of William S. Burroughs' book of the same name. It stars Daniel Craig as Lee, a man living in Mexico City, who becomes infatuated with a younger man played by Drew Starkey, who is absolutely the internet's boyfriend right now. Oh, my God. So much so. The picture that we shot of him is like 300 ,000 likes on Instagram.

1:32He is like the guy of the moment. Anyway, so they have this crazy journey through the rainforest in South America. And there's an ayahuasca moment involved. Oh, it's more than a moment. More than a moment. And Leslie Manville, like you've never seen her before, like totally unrecognizable. Unrecognizable. I mean, I will say that visually this movie is stunning. I went to a screening of this movie with a few GQ editors and everyone was just sort of dazzled by the clothes, which are all, as you will soon learn, meticulously sourced vintage menswear. and it's just a feast for the eyes sartorially.

2:16You know, there's certain moments where you saw pieces that clearly were vintage, but you just thought, can Lueve make that? Can J.W. Anderson make that? Like there's a red sweater with white bananas on it. I know, at the bar. Yes, exactly. Did you notice that one? I literally thought that was a Lueve sweater. I know. I was, my mind was blown when Jonathan told us. Yeah, like I thought that is a Lueve sweater And Jonathan told us it was all vintage. I know. It was incredible. And, you know, as people know, Jonathan also worked on the costumes for Challengers. Also, Lugo Guadagnino, who is a very dear friend of Jonathan.

2:55Obviously, so much about Challengers went viral earlier this year. But one thing was the I told you a sweat T-shirt. And I'm sort of wondering, like, what's going to be the I told you a T-shirt of queer? And I wonder if it's going to be there's like a gold centipede necklace that's part of the magical realism moment. And I would love to have one of those necklaces. Although I did have lice this week, so I'm sort of anti-bugs at the moment. Nice segue. So everyone will hear that interview shortly. But before, Choma, tell us about your marathon week. week. I mean, honestly, just seeing your Instagram stories, I was like, good God, Choma.

3:41Choma's boyfriend runs marathons, but so does Choma. Choma runs marathons. Oh, my God. I know. I am literally past the marathon. Marathon is high right now. I am on the like, I need a I definitely had an IV drip, which sounds so like. No, I think I think you needed that. I needed it. So, okay, let's just walk through Choma's last week. While we all had Thanksgiving, Choma was hosting the Lightroom exhibition opening. Yes, yes. The Lee Miller film screening. Yes, which was amazing. Another Vogue event. Yeah, we had a Forces for Change Vogue event, which was like the kind of like finale of this big initiative that we've been working on for the last few years.

4:24Then the British Fashion Awards, where you changed. Then the British Fashion Awards. You had a wardrobe change. An outfit change, yes, because I presented Nan Golden and Kelsey Liu an award for their participation, well, for the campaign that Nan Golden did for Gucci, a sort of special recognition award. I had a few run-ins backstage. I met Simone backstage, Simone Roshar, who's like one of my favorite designers and won British women's wear designer of the year. So we were both quite emotional. So that was a lovely run-in. And then I was sitting next to the lovely Thames, who's a musician, Nigerian musician, who I'm a huge fan of.

4:59So it was a really eventful night. It was a really, really eventful night. And like my social battery is done. Oh, my God. Oh, you know what we didn't talk about? What? Sorry. A$AP Rocky and Rihanna. Oh, my God. Tell me everything. So the first time that Rocky came to the British Fashion Awards, when Rihanna won an award, and obviously she's so deserving of an award. So he tells this story of like how he came to the British Fashion Awards and he just came and thought, well, you know what? I deserve one of these too. And so like it was kind of a lovely full circle moment for him to be bringing his date, who was Rihanna, who was wearing this amazing Christian Lacroix.

5:43He wore an amazing Bottega, kind of quite low key, but very him, kind of this boxy Navy Bottega dress. suit but very loosely a suit it looked much more workwear inspired and then he had michelle lammy introduce the award and it was very sweet because he talked about remind us who michelle lammy is so for those who don't know who michelle lammy is she is rick owen's wife and muse and kind of like an amazing jewelry designer in her own right and this just force of nature and she at a very kind of a very impressionable time in um in rocky's life took rocky under her wing and kind of gave him this education in fashion and helped and basically took him to freeze and said and not even just fashion like in culture took him to freeze and said look at the art figure out the art that you like this will help refine your taste this will help refine your sense of like, style.

6:45Yeah. So it was a really lovely moment and he, and he completely spotlighted her in his speech and he didn't prepare anything. And he just spoke from the heart, which I always think makes for the best speeches. And he definitely got the crap, won the crowd over. And it was a really sweet moment. I mean, he is one of the best dressed men in the world, if not the best dressed man in the world and loves fashion in a kind of like, just in a like like unabashed way like it's just like he was like the only thing now i'm regretting now standing on stage is i should have worn the other outfit like he's always so cute it was really cute you know like he loves fashion and he lives and breathes it and he he no one wears clothes like him you know him and rihanna are just the best dressed couple in the world and i i think that we can say that with without any competition what was the vibe like when alex couldn't saw Alex's speech was so wonderful.

7:38She paid homage to all the trans women before her who had paved the way, specifically pointing out the black trans women that had come before her that I thought was really special. But it was extra special that this was like a historic moment, like the first trans gender woman to win this award. How was your Thanksgiving? Thanksgiving was lovely. We went down to Virginia to my in-laws who live in Colonial Williamsburg, which is a very charming place to visit because you like go for a run or take, you know, the stroller out for a walk and you're walking past people in tricorn hats like churning butter.

8:16And there's sheep out in the pasture. And we had a really lovely time. We went to Bush Gardens, which is the local theme park for their Christmas town. and my 10-year-old nephew and I waited for 90 minutes for a roller coaster, which was the most terrifying 90 seconds of my life. Oh, my God. Then we got home and discovered that everyone in our house had lice. And so we spent three and a half hours on Monday morning with a wonderful woman named Margaret who came with many lice combs and her lice potion. And then after I got the all clear, I came to work and everyone was like, go away don't infect Kondi.

8:58I'm so relieved for you. It just doesn't sound like fun. No it was very much not fun. Choma I loved your SZA conversation. It's true Laya in her write-up about the episode was saying that it was like listening to two old friends chat instead of just listening to an interview and you and SZA have known each other for so long and I love that that's sort of the evolution of this relationship. I feel very protective of her in a weird way. She's like a little sister. It's just wild seeing someone grow that much in such a short space of time. But then also knowing someone for that long, too. Because that 10 years isn't a whole lot of time for a megastar to come into their own.

9:46But she's done it. And she's literally like one of the biggest women musicians right now. And yeah, it was it was really special. And her and Kendrick Lamar's Grand National Tour was just announced. Everyone here is obsessed with Kendrick's album. Virginia Smith said she woke up at 4.30 a.m. to listen to it, which I found. I know. I know. I mean, I'm I'm I'm obsessed with Kendrick. And I think this is going to be I'm literally coming to America for this tour. I'm not going to wait for it to come to the UK. Oh, wow. I like that. I think I'm going to, if I come for the Met, I'm staying for the tour because I think it's the following weekend.

10:25I've already marked my calendar. Oh, I love this planning. Since I can't go to the Super Bowl. This is your Super Bowl. Yeah, this is my Super Bowl. What did you think of the Gotham Award red carpet? Gotham Awards, I just feel like everyone, all the stars and all the potential nominees do attend. So it feels like a great place table setting for what the rest of awards season is going to look like. And I think Saoirse Ronan, who's now been working with Danielle Goldberg, has been killing it. She wore a Schiaparelli couture dress that was extremely body hugging with 3D. Thorny. Thorny, yes. Little thorns.

11:09Can we crown her the queen of the red carpet this year? I think she is. I also like Mikey Madison, who also wore. Oh, yeah. Schiaparelli. So it was a big scap night. I feel like Mikey Madison, she needs to be the face of something. Yeah. Some brand needs to snap her up, like AASAP. Coleman Domingo looked heaven. Zoe Kravitz looks chic as ever in Saint Laurent. She can do no wrong. It was like a pale lilac Saint Laurent sort of ruched with really beautiful drapery. Oh, and you know who else has been looking great? is Danielle Deadweiler. And she wore... Oh, yeah. And that McQueen was incredible.

11:49That McQueen was really fab. And Elle Fanning, I always love. Oh, and Chloe Sevigny in the Saint Laurent. It was a big Saint Laurent week. Chloe Sevigny wore the new Saint Laurent to the Gotham Awards. And Emma Corrin wore the naked Saint Laurent. Oh, I love the naked Saint Laurent on Emma Corrin. So good. Harry Lambert styles her. I feel like that was one of my favorite looks of the month so far. Totally. um now choma the rumor mill the book oh it keeps swirling it keeps swirling i mean honestly a watch pot never boils but at some point the bubbles must come i know i think it's the most anticipated appointment of the year without maybe of the decade i know it feels so funny because we are in such a bubble continuing my bubble talk um yeah uh my sister-in-law we were talking about this weekend and I was like, well, everyone's waiting for the Chanel appointment.

12:46And my in-laws were like, what are you talking about? I was like, it's true. This is a very niche topic. And yet in our world, it is the only topic. It's the only topic. I do think that an announcement is going to be made at some point soon. And from what everyone on the internet is saying, Mathieu Blasé looks very likely, but I have no inside intel on that. I'm just going from the internet. I don't either. But yeah, and I think there will probably be other switcheroos in early 2025, too. So it'll be an interesting sort of basketball draft season for fashion houses. I do think from a craft perspective, Mathieu really, I mean, has done wonderful things with the studio and the traditions and the craftsmanship of Bottega.

13:34Well, speaking of craftsmanship of Bottega, I went to the Richard Scarry event that they had at their new Maison above the store in Masson Avenue. And it was heaven. This Richard Scarry collection they've done is so charming and whimsical. It's like little intracciato leather apples, like Loli Worm's apple car. So I'm a big fan. Anything else we need to talk about? Anything this weekend? I hope not. Is there anything happening this weekend? I don't want anything happening. Oh, I'm meeting Santa this weekend. I'm meeting Santa at Bergdorf's. Oh, really? A chic Santa. Oh, my God. And actually, we have a fabulous piece going up today that our producer Joanna wrote about a woman who is the wife of the most popular Santa at the Mall of America.

14:24Oh, my God. When he is spending all of December with the nation's children, she is single parenting for their own two toddlers. And it's extremely funny and A-plus journalism. We have to wish someone a very special day. Our producer, Chelsea Daniels. Happy birthday to Chelsea! It's not just wrapped day, everyone. It's a much more special day.

14:54The run-through will be back in a moment.

15:09Right now, in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe. It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

15:56And we're back. We had such a fun combo with Jonathan Anderson, so let's get right into it.

16:04Congratulations on working on these costumes of the film. We absolutely loved it, and the costumes were amazing. It's a very surreal thing. You know, Luca and me are very, very dear friends. And I think after Challengers, I think we were hooked. So it was quite nice to kind of do something which challenges, which was like, you know, when I was younger. And then going into a time period, which is completely different. It's like actual doing historical costume, which was scary, to say the least, when doing it. I'm sure. Had you read the book before you agreed to the project? Or did this send you down a wormhole of research on William S.

16:49Burroughs? Or what was your relationship to his work? I had read the book many, many years ago. I think I read it in my 20s. And I've always loved the book, because I find the book really kind of like, it's a hard book. It's sort of like, but you really kind of feel like you are, what are you in? Is it a dream sequence? Is it not a dream sequence? In a weird way, I've always kind of had this thing about Burroughs, because, you know, if you look at Bowie and people like that, he became this sort of like cult figure near the end of his life where people nearly went to see him as pilgrims. and these characters, these sort of like conceptual characters don't exist very much today.

17:34You know, these sort of like odd beacons of like kind of like by going near it, you're going to learn something, you know, there's like a mystery about it. I have a lot of questions about the actual clothing because I read that it was vintage, almost exclusively clothes from the 50s and 40s. Is there one white suit? How do you make vintage clothing? How do you, did you make things look like they'd been in the jungle for three days? What were the tricks to ayahuasca? Did you actually have to do ayahuasca in the clothes? There's many things to life. No, you know, me and Lucca had sat down and I wanted something different than what we did in Challenger.

18:19So for me, I wanted this idea that the actor the bag and the the suitcase that they would actually be using in the film that everything had to fit into it so there was no duplication made look i shot everything pretty much in sequence okay as they went to the jungle the clothing just got naturally jungle-fied you know we did have the the amazing you know at chino chita they have some of the most amazing people to break down clothing and they use like every potion. It's like going to like the craziest clothing doctor in the world and then they're like throwing potions on it and you can be like, let's make it five days older.

19:05Oh my God, amazing. And I have it with a yellow sweating neckline. What are some of the potions they're using? Is it like tea or like, I don't know. They're using like tea, they're using dyes, they're using a lot of natural things like beetroots and like different types of flowers and then they're using sawdust and then they're using all the mud that was collected at the thing that they would put into this like kind of like old fashion like drum and then they would like take all the grit out of it and then they would spray it so once we kind of established these wardrobes then the actors just had to kind of improvise within them everything i had researched over the year to find everything from the sock to the underwear to the sock suspender everything is from period you know I work in an industry that produces loads of clothing and I kind of like this idea that you were kind of like looking at these like precious artifacts and kind of becoming like obsessive about the idea of reusing something you know this idea of things that have life in them you know it's like when you look at Lee's suit that Daniel wears it took me six months to find that suit where'd you find it So I found this from a menswear dealer in London in the end, who actually sourced it from San Francisco, from a person who collects historical clothing, menswear.

20:30It's a type of suit that is when industrial suits of the Second World War became the kind of go-to for men. You know, it was like the birth of people like Brooks Brothers. And when you were looking at Sears, we're starting to do the industrial suits. So there is something about those suits that are kind of, they're anti-fitting, that they don't fit you like a Savarou suit. There's like a kind of, and when you have a summer suit, they have like a rayon mix in them. So they get this like kind of odd slub to them. And just to describe it for people who haven't seen the suit, it's a white, as you say, sort of a summer suit, a white summer suit.

21:13And did you always know that's what you needed? What was going to be the backup if not? um then it was this like horrible thing where i was like do we remake something and i was like i hope this is not the one thing that we have to do so each garment that i found the idea is that when we found the garment we didn't alter the garment if that makes sense so with drew and daniel everything that we found is is as the size that we found it in so that because i i like this idea that, you know, when you're working with someone like Daniel and Drew and Luca, Leslie Manville, Jason Schwartzman, you want something that is as connected to help to develop this character.

21:58You know, like if you look at Leslie Manville's character, you know, I found this amazing 1940s knit, which had these roses on it, which kind of reminded me. I took a note about it. I had lots of research of like drug culture in the 90s and looking at addiction and when you look at those sort of lsd tablets from the 90s from the club days that you have these little symbols and i like that you they go and they see this there's a woman who is ultimately mixing the potions she's finding the drugs and i quite like that there's this like kind of antique version of lsd or something in it. Yes. I could barely recognize Leslie.

22:37I was like, that's Leslie. It was so insane. Loved it. Oh my God. What a way we've come from Phantom Thread. Wow. I had it for like a kind of all in one woman's undergarment, which had these like darts on the boobs, which were quite, I mean, very strange. I found this strange garment. And then I found this really kind of amazing 19 just lit kind of a just after the war flight jacket and then on that knit I said to look I think this is the look and he was like go for it have you ever done ayahuasca did you feel I've never done ayahuasca you know I think when I was in university I tried pot once and I was never very good on it so maybe when I'm older I always have this thing that maybe I'm gonna I think the strongest thing I've ever done is like marijuana.

23:29So maybe when I get really old, I'm just going to be like, I'll do everything at once. God, I can't wait. I've never done ayahuasca because it makes me nervous, but I would join Leslie Manville's cult if she was my shaman. She is this American woman who's joined the jungle in the sort of depths of Ecuador. and she is mixing ayahuasca for Daniel Craig and Drew Starkey. And she's wearing, I mean, she is really unrecognizable. It's amazing how she's been transformed. But I did wonder, Jonathan, she and her, I think she calls him her hubby at one point, they wear these amazing woven face masks that actually I think would be really chic hats.

24:15Did you make those? Did you find them? During the pandemic, I had done a women's wear collection and I saw these masks that an artist had made and I was like okay I need we can't do shows so we're just going to use this mask and we're going to get a mannequin we're going to put the clothing and then put the mask on it and then when we were filming Luca was like we need masks or something like some sort of like I don't want it to tie to any tribe I don't want it to tie it and I was like oh my god i have this crazy masks that look like kind of vortexes wow and i was like why don't we make them really kind of antique them with the amazing people at cinecita and then suddenly these masks that were in a pandemic show are being used again and i i love that things find a second Just for people who don't know, Cinecitta is the storied film studio in Rome.

25:16Was all of it filmed at Cinecitta? Yeah. Okay. Except for one scene, which is the beach. The boxer shorts were beautiful. Those were period also, right? Those were period. Wow. How does one find period underwear? I actually found a person in Canada that collected underwear, historical underwear. Wow. Which you would never thought existed, but does exist. And yeah, I was like, I needed the period because ultimately it's a period where elastic is not really used. So they're kind of done with like these little kind of slight little ties on the side and these like kind of like really like childlike snaps on them.

26:02that you'd have this little ring snaps you have on baby grows. I think that what you realize during a fashion show and going into film is that you're trying to make everything believable. You're trying to make people feel that they know the character instantaneously from the image. It's like with Drew's character, Allison, you know exactly when he enters the screen who he is, the coding of it. And I think what was nice is to go to socks and underwear from the period was just like another level. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us.

26:46Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

27:13For me, what was so interesting about the film was all those sort of surrealist fever dream moments. And I love that there was a necklace that kind of came alive. The centipede necklace. The centipede necklace. obviously I thought your last show was so amazing and I don't know if I can draw a line from the shoes in the movie to the shoes that you showed because it felt like oh those are the shoes that you know when kids are dressing up in their in a dressing up box they wear shoes that are too big for them it's also like felt like a bit reminiscent of the shoes in the film in a way not that not the proportions but just that kind of men's shoe of that period when we were doing challenges, I was flying back and forward from Boston.

27:55And it was like during the pandemic, it was like one of this moment of like the pandemic was about to end, everyone was still nervous. And it was very intense, like flying every week. Whereas with queer, I went to Rome, I kicked several weeks out of work into these big sections. I had people coming to Rome to do meetings for work but i was primarily full-time on set the whole time and for me it was like a kind of a moment where i'm like i'm not the boss i work for look at guadagnino i i look up to him he is like my best friend and i will do anything to make this work for you and it for me it was a really good way for me you know i've been at the web for 11 years it was a very good way for me to kind of get a brain space you know it was very kind of like to kind of go like uh I don't work in fashion right now you know it was it was a and it kind of helped me to just like be myself without the media pressure or the you know the pressure of like being the designer what was it like working with Daniel I know he's now been the face of of Loewe and I think people were quite surprised to see him in such a different light because we're so used to him 007 and I'm just sort of curious to know like it seems like he's really embracing his fashion side outside of this movie too.

29:20The first time I met Daniel was in Brooklyn and I was mesmerized by him. He's probably one of the most kindest sincere people I've ever met or ever worked with in terms of talent. You I think when you think of Daniel, for me, like one of my favorite films he's ever been in is Love is the Devil, which is on, you know, Francis Bacon. And what you realize with him is that he is one of the greatest actors of our generation, like of the last several generations, because he is so versatile. like you know and then when we were doing the filming I was just like I was talking to look one night and I was like I just have to put him in a campaign like and I was like and I remember turning up on set with like David and being like we kind of want you to look like A.D.