Jonathan Groff on Bobby Darin, Divas, and His Leather Era

0:06This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel, and I am here with Vogue's Features Editor Marley Marius. It's so good to be here. And we had the loveliest interview with the one and only Jonathan Groth, who honestly I was deeply charmed by. He is charm on two legs. Oh my God. That's who he is. He came in, he said to Marley, oh, we've met before. It was very like... He hugged absolutely everyone. He hugged everyone in the studio, including Jake, our engineer. He was wearing a little Tom Brown knit. He looked great. And it was just a total dream. And he is currently playing the other heartthrob, Bobby Darin, in the Broadway musical Just in Time.

0:52And he was nominated for Tony for his performance. And he won a Tony last year for his performance in Merrily We Roll Along and got a Grammy for Hamilton in 2016. When did you meet Jonathan? I met him when I wrote about the production of Mary Lady Roll Along. First, I spoke to him and Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendez on the phone when it premiered off Broadway. But then once we shot them for the magazine, Norman Jean Roy and Max Ortega worked on like a really lovely shoot of the three of them. I went to the shoot, which was in like Long Island City, and it was like such a grim day. But everyone was like so emotional and so happy to be there because they love that show so much.

1:35And Jonathan was— We love emotional theater, kids. That's—look, yeah. And so it was like cute. And he was, yeah, very then as now, super charming, so passionate about what he does, so passionate about that show, so passionate about this show, which was very much a passion project for him. He's just always a sort of delight to chat with. We will be right back with Jonathan Groff. Thank you.

2:26Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

2:41All right, here's our conversation with Jonathan Groff. Charm on legs.

2:50Jonathan, we are very excited to have you here. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me. Huge Bobby Darin fans. Oh, cool. Amazing. The most heard words in my mother's household are Alexa, play Bobby Darin. You're going to laugh. Yelling at Alexa all the time. Okay, well, you've got to bring your mom. Oh, she's been. Fear not. That's so cool. In fact, you asked her to dance and she declined. Oh, my gosh. I remember her. She is the only female that has declined my dance. Wow. That sounds right, which is so sad because she's an excellent dancer. She just didn't want to get up. Listen, I respect it. Such a wallflower.

3:27that is so funny because I've asked men to dance yeah and there was a guy that said like that's going one step too far I was like okay so usually when someone refuses to dance I just then sit next to them on the steps and hold their hand and sing to them which is what I did with your mom oh she was on the aisle and I went to her and asked her to dance and she was like no not happening like not even like not even questioning it she was it was a hard hard no so tell her what's the breakdown of no's to yeses for it's mostly yeses yeah which is why and it's it's never your mom was the only female no I've ever received wow which is why I remember her super iconic distinct honor really distinct yes what's your mom's name Candice Bergen Candice Bergen what the actual fuck I must say it must have been her how did I not recognize her well happens we get a lot of you look like Candice Bergen anyway we digress that would have gotten me even more if I had known it was Candice Bergen saying no to me in the dead that would have been even harder like no to overcome that's so funny I have to tell you it's not an uncommon but it is always a startling moment when Anna emails you or texts you after she goes to the theater and it's only for really intense, urgent moments of passion.

5:00And she said, Jonathan is groundbreaking. We need a photo. And I was like, ugh. It was chaos. We really made it happen. We used an outtake from the Norma Jean Roy shoe from last year. Which was beautiful. And he loved that too. He was like, I'm glad that this is seeing the light of day. It was an amazing portrait. Oh, nice. that is so freaking cool very few people get the 11pm text oh my gosh that means everything to me and she wrote me an email after that night as well and I was like wow this is epic because not only because it's Anna but because it's Anna who also sees everything I mean she like over 10 years ago I was doing a play in London a revival of Death Trap with Simon Russell Beale directed by Matthew Warchus.

5:49Estelle Parsons was in it. Amazing cast. And I came to London and came to see that play and came back afterward and said hi. And that's when it really that's when it really landed on me. Like, oh, she is a theater animal. True lover of the form. Yeah, she sees everything. So that's so cool that she made that phone call. Jonathan, for The Uninitiated, can you tell us about Just in Time? What's the elevator pitch? Which I did. I gave the elevator pitch in 2019 to our now producer Tom Curdie who went and got us the rights for the show. So elevator pitch is a musical about the life and music of Bobby Darin.

6:32But what sets it apart from other kind of bio musicals is that we've turned Circle in the Square Theater into a nightclub. so when you walk into the theater you're in some ways walking back in time to the Copacabana of the late 50s, early 60s but it's the Copacabana of your dreams it's not what the Copa look like but it's sort of like an amplified theatrical version of that we've got a live big band on stage we've got cabaret seating at tables the audience and the performers are you can reach out and touch each other and I start the show as myself I heard about this. Yeah, by all accounts, like Bobby Darin, Oscar-nominated actor, Grammy-winning recording artist, prolific producer, songwriter, but was at the height of his powers when he was at the center of a nightclub floor.

7:23And in the present moment with the audience. So at the very start of the show, I come out as myself. I locate us all in what we're calling the basement of Wicked because Circle of the Squares is essentially like in the basement of the building where Wicked is. That was shocking to discover when I got there. and like seeing the two lines because obviously there's this crazy line for Wicked Around the Block. And then there's also a line for Just in Time. The pink and green didn't. It's well - Give it away. Lots of merch. Yeah, anyway, it's fine. Anyway. The origins of the show were as a concert performance in 2018.

7:57And I know that preparing for that, you went down like a Bobby Darin sort of rabbit hole. Yes, yeah. On YouTube. Yeah. What was kind of capturing your attention about him as a performer at that time that was kind of inspiring your interpretation of him. Yeah, so Ted Chapin, eight years ago this month, asked me to do this series at the 90 Second Street Y where we were going to amplify Bobby Darin as a singer, but also as a songwriter, because he wrote a lot of his own music. So I went on YouTube, like you said, and I was watching clips of him, and I immediately, and still, I'm still in the YouTube rabbit hole.

8:34I'm still every day watching clips. I'm obsessed with him. And why am I obsessed with him? Because when you watch clips of him singing music, it's not a singer just singing a song. He has got this primal need to perform. It's almost animalistic when he's performing. Do you identify with that? I do. I do. I love singing, but I've always felt like an actor first. And my way into music has always been the story that I'm telling or the thing I'm trying to communicate more than enjoying the sound of my own voice. I'm obsessed with like watching clips of old clips of like Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand or even like now like clips of Beyonce like in the way that Beyonce in such a ferocious way attacks the songs that she does.

9:27She's not just singing music. Same thing with Lady Gaga. He's like which for me usually are great amazing female performers. and I was watching these clips of Bobby Darin and he had this energy and he gave me this feeling that I get when I watch all of my favorite diva performances. So it's rare for me to find a man. A divo. A divo that evokes that pulse racing in me and the sweatiness. And so I was like, whoa, this guy is really going for it. No, he's kinetic. I mean, he really. Kinetic, that's the word. Yes. And then I got this book called Dream Lovers The Magnificent Shattered Lives of Bobby Darin and Sandra Dee.

10:03and learned a little bit why. He was told he was going to die by the time he was 16 years old. So from 16 to when he ultimately died when he was 37, he was living on borrowed time in his mind, and he wanted to get as much in as he possibly could. And when he was performing, he was always negotiating his weak heart. He would suck oxygen, an oxygen tank in the wings. So when you went to see Bobby Darin, he was performing with absolutely everything he had. And we get a lot of people coming to the show that was, you know, I was 10 years old and Bobby Darin danced with me or Bobby Darin kissed me on the cheek or Bobby Darin commented on my blue dress.

10:42And so part of the conceit of me starting as myself is to establish this connection between performer and audience where I can say if someone has a sash, which they had last week that said, it's my 50th birthday. I can say happy birthday. I can engage with the audience in the live present moment first before we go back in time and tell the story of his life. Because that was really apparently his magic. And that's what really stuck with people. And that's why I felt really passionate about telling his life story in the context of live theater. Because his magic was in the live moment. And I think it's part of why his legacy is easy to forget about.

11:21Partially because you listen to Splish Splash, Mac, The Night of Dream Lover. if I were Carmen Deir, it sounds like four different people. He was a chameleon, so he doesn't have a distinct sound like Sinatra or even Elvis. And so someone whose magic was in the moment liveness, once they're gone, it's easy to forget about that. So now we get to tell his story in a live theater setting. And we're trying to, yes, tell his story, yes, sing his music, yes, give the fans of Bobby Durham what they want, but we're trying to celebrate being in the present moment and that energy between performer and audience, which was his magic.

11:56It sounds like you are just killing yourself every night, eight times a week. It's such a physical show. I mean, it sounds so physical. It seems really hard. Relentless. How on earth, besides your physical therapist, do you prepare for that? Truly. I'm killing myself, but it's all in the spirit of Bobby Darien. And it's like, I am killing myself, but I it's like this crazy thing I love it so much and we've been trying to make this show happen for 8 years and so this experience of doing the show it's like 2 hours and almost like 30 minutes the most I'm off stage Haley the woman who's dressing me told me is 45 seconds I feel like I'm on drugs when I'm out there I love it so much and I sleep really hard at night so I know I'm I'm like working hard.

12:50Yeah. But when I'm out, I can't wait to get to the show every night. I am like amped. So it is like running a marathon, but it's just everything I've ever wanted to do. I just love it so much. Is there like a marathon eating regimen? Like are you like, I don't know, pounding protein? I've been for the last, since the first week of February, doing meals sent to my house. So three meals a day, five days a week. Shout out to Daily Dose. doing great work I'm gonna I'm gonna do them through the Tonys it's like when we were rehearsing and then tech and then previews and now we've been promoting the show and now it's the big like publicity push to June 8th and then once once that's done and I get my days free again I'm gonna try to you know cook like make eggs is that something you usually like to do?

13:41no okay no but like usually but I can't like I'll like go to dinner or go to like lunch but the They don't have time to have a normal life right now. It's like nose to the grindstone kind of epic. I do feel like this pre-Tony's month is a very intense schmooze fest. Yeah. What's the fashion vibe? Yeah. Are you method dressing? Great question. In a way, Erica Cloud is the woman that I work with as a stylist. And I love her so much and she's so creative and I've come to really embrace like the rack that's set up in the living room of my apartment with all the different things, all the different looks.

14:31And I think I like, I don't know if it's like a, was like a body self-conscious thing or, or like a lack of being able to express personal creativity through clothes. I've always felt kind of self-conscious about that. Or like, I don't know enough about it or I'm not in tune enough with trends and fashion and whatnot. But in working with Erica in the last few years, it's become like a creative collaboration. It's really fun and really exciting. And like last night, for example, was the Chita Rivera Awards. Fun. And I was nominated for Best Dancer of the Year. And our ensemble was nominated for Best Ensemble.

15:13And our amazing choreographer, Shannon, was nominated for Best Choreography. And so the outfit that I chose last night was this like Tom Brown. it was like a white tux jacket with a bow tie and black shorts. We love a gal on the carpet. I was giving gams. It was giving this. It was giving that. For our Tony's look, are you gonna go wild or classic? What did you wear last year when you won? Oh my gosh. Last year I went classic with sort of like a it was a jacket with like a shawl. My big regret last year, honestly. Yeah, we love regrets. My regret was that I didn't button the jacket when I went up to accept the award.

15:55Because it was this beautiful shawl collar, kind of like dramatic drape down. But without it buttoned, it looked a little like unfinished. And so my regret is that when I went up there to accept the award, I forgot to button my jacket. Let's just keep it buttoned this year. Keep it buttoned for safety. The whole time. Just in case. Yeah. But like nerves wise, now that you've like, obviously you've been to the Tonys many times, you've been nominated four times, you had the win last year, like, you know how it goes each way. Does that make you less nervous going into it this year? Are you like, ready to like go and just kind of like have a good time?

16:31Or is it still kind of like the pomp and circumstances like nervous making? I was talking about this this morning with my friend it's such a it's such an interesting negotiation of internal emotion, ego and expectation because on one hand we do what we do if you're a theater actor and you live in New York, you're here because you love what you do, not because you necessarily wanted to become famous or outward vision of success as an actor is something that most people would move to Los Angeles for if that's what you're looking for is like to be well known in that kind of way. So it like, it's like a childhood dream and like a signal of, of success and acceptance.

17:25Who do you bring? This year, it's my, my, my parents, because it's at Radio City this year. Last year it was at Lincoln Center. This year it's Radio City, so it's a way bigger theater, so you can bring more people. Bringing my mom, my dad, my brother, his wife, and my two nieces who are 8 and 10 years old. That's going to be so fun. I know, right? I guess you're going to perform, right? Your poor brother and his wife, how are they ever going to top this? They're 8 and 10? Literally. It's like, I'm not going to see Minecraft. I went to the Tonys. They came to the premiere of Frozen 2, so really the Tonys is a downgrade from Frozen 2 for the nieces.

17:58Strongly. Yeah, yeah. Like Bobby Who? Yes, exactly, exactly. The Run-Through will be back in just a moment.

18:30colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

18:47I want to know what you're doing to have fun when you're killing yourself eight times a week and preparing for the Tonys. Like, is Cowboy Carter on your dance card? I am so excited. I will say, and this is true, that the show is the joy for me. Okay. And the show, and it's not even like the performing of it is the reward. Like that is the most exciting and amazing and fulfilling part of my day. I have this line at the end of the show when I'm back to being myself where I say doing this, meaning like interacting with the audience, this is when he felt the most alive. Honestly, same. Okay. And I feel that.

19:28That being said, you better believe Sunday night I will be at the Cowboy Carter tour with bells on. And also on Monday, July 7th in Washington, D.C. on our day off at the Cowboy Carter tour. Wow. And what are you wearing? Because just for the listeners who don't know, you are a big Beyonce stan. Huge. Like Beyonce is the closest thing I have to religion. Okay. Beautiful. I decided a couple of days ago I want to be in leather I think I might have a little bit of a leather fetish if I really am honest with myself the smell of leather have you seen what Alexander Skarsgård's been wearing at Cannes?

20:08take a look for inspo you just said his name and I started salivating no no just look big leather energy big fetish energy what I'm going to go for if I can find it is leather chaps a leather vest and a leather cowboy hat. This sounds hot. That's all I'll say? Like physically hot? It sounds hot. Oh, I was like, it does sound hot. But I'm thinking the leather chaps with like a jean underneath. That's kind of hot, yes. But the vest, I'm thinking no shirt. Okay, okay. It's just like a leather vest. Well, that sounds sticky. But you do you. Leather vest, no shirt, and then cowboy hat that I'll probably take off at some point.

20:51And you can use that to fan yourself. But I thought the sweat could be fun. I'm going to sweat regardless because the minute she appears on stage I'm going to just get completely wet because I'm thinking in July when I go on the 7th it's going to be super hot in DC too so that's going to be just like cut off jean shorts it's leather shorts maybe maybe it's just like leather is my whole I do have leather shorts from Pride I got the leather shorts I think in Berlin when I was there and I started to like get into the harness of it all So I'm in Club Hoedown. I'm standing in the center section. Who do you go with?

21:27I'm going with five friends. My friend Katie, who I've known since sixth grade. Leah Michelle. Bad. What is she wearing? Great question. TBD. Jenny T. My dear friend and publicist. My friend Alexis and her husband Raul and me. That group and that night and that outfit is going to be essential. and it's like it's like that like I listened to I was listening to Cowboy Carter today it was like in the Spotify wrap up all five songs of the year were all from Cowboy Carter and my my number one artist number one was Beyonce number two was Bobby Darriens that's a beautiful thing last year on Spotify you can really know what that's what he said wow which really sums it up for me this year but I'm so I'm so excited obviously I've been watching the clips online and like it's it's so profound what she does.

22:20She is, she like Bobby Darin is not just singing music. She is, she's even taking it like a million times more and she's like, she's giving me my religion for my life. I really mean it. I just love her so much. That's going to be so proud. Believe in what she does so much and what she's saying. Yes, Jonathan. Yes. So many great shows on this season. Have you been able to see anything else? I have. In the fall and winter we were just in like early I was doing my music lessons and my dance lessons so I had a lot of time to see shows I went to see Gypsy which I loved and I saw Sunset Boulevard which I loved both insane insane yeah insane in a great way recently on a day off like a month or two ago I went to see the revival of Floyd Collins which I also died for.

23:20And yeah, I saw maybe Happy Ending, which I also loved. You've seen things. That's great. Yeah, I like Anna, try to see everything. A creature of theater. I mean, O'Mary, but let's just like, we got to give it up to O'Mary. Oh my God. Because O'Mary is one of the - We love Cole here. Cole, come on. And we love Conrad Wiccomora. We love O'Mara too. I mean, yeah, come on. That was like, that's my favorite thing I've seen in many years. I just love that so much. Oh my God. love. Amazing. It's a great season and you're part of a great season. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. My mom and I loved us in time.

23:54We had the time all our lives. It was insane. Yes. Amazing. We were dying. Yay. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

24:06That's it for the show today. See you soon.

24:17The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Joanna Solitaroff. It's engineered by Jake Loomis, Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of global audio.