Kaia Gerber and Homer Gere Are Vogue’s September Cover Stars!

8:06Homer Gere:Wow. It was a lovely gift.

8:08Kaia Gerber:And a couple of packets of seeds.

8:10Homer Gere:Yeah. So I can start my life. A little trad wife. Yes.

8:14Kaia Gerber:He said, go where you belong.

8:15Homer Gere:Trad wife primer.

8:18Kaia Gerber:I like that.

8:19Homer Gere:Enough of you and this. Yeah.

8:22Kaia Gerber:Well, now it doesn't seem sweet at all.

8:24Homer Gere:No, it's very sweet.

8:26Kaia Gerber:Had you guys read Less Than Zero? Yes. I know you had. Yeah. I read it after. After filming? After filming, yeah. Because I love Less Than Zero, and I was so excited to see, because in a way, The Shards is the fictionalization of Brett writing Less Than Zero. And that's actually what we chose as our summer book club is Less Than Zero. And so we're reading that all of our thrift books copies for our team are in my office. But I want to know if there's any discussion on set or with the producers around how do you make something that's so gruesome and disturbing feel human, both in the shards and in Less Than Zero?

9:12Kaia Gerber:Because there is this amazing thing about his work where you read it and you're like, oh, capital T trauma. But I feel for these people and I'm invested in them.

9:23Homer Gere:Yeah. Well, I think something that's very true for Less Than Zero and I think true in large part for The Shards as well is that a lot of the horror comes from the lack of reaction to the horror. Like that's some of the scariest bit of it. The indifference to everything. The difference, you know, and like in Less Than Zero, Clay, I think, keeps asking, like, what are we doing? And the answer is, I don't know. Right. You know, and I think that's part of the horror is, and as you're watching our show as well, the lack of reaction that these kids are having to the traumatic events happening around them.

10:00Homer Gere:And I think Brett does that really well of like going straight into the horror and the horrificness of the events, but void of too much emotion, which I think incites, it gives the reader or the viewer the opportunity to feel that.

10:18Kaia Gerber:It's almost a sense of dread. It's like the really gruesome stuff obviously is incredibly graphic and like, you know, it's on the nose a little bit. But the weirder kind of stuff that stuck with me is the kind of the creepiness or the kind of dread you get of like these people who are just indifferent to what's going on. And then you're kind of like, why? Why aren't they reacting?

10:40Homer Gere:Yeah, but I think it's a really good meditation on how it's so easy when violence or horrible things are happening around you to other yourself and go, well, that's bad, but it's not happening to me. And then, you know, you see in a lot of Brett's work and also in our show, it takes it happening to the person for them to actually understand the gravity of it. Yeah.

11:04Kaia Gerber:Well, you guys describe for listeners, like, what's your elevator synopsis? of the show when people say, tell me about the Shards, and they haven't read it. Well, Kaya has this memorized. I do. But what I say to my friends and family, like who, the most basic version, I said, it's if Euphoria was in the 80s and was also a horror and was also Glee.

11:28Homer Gere:Oh, my God.

11:29Kaia Gerber:That's amazing. By the way, that's perfect.

11:32Homer Gere:Yeah, I mean, my sort of thing that I've memorized to describe to people is that it's a seductive drama thriller from Ryan Murphy, adapted from Bretton Easton Ellis' best-selling novel that follows a group of privileged teenagers that go to an elite prep school in L.A. in 1981 as they navigate identity, sex, obsession, and the horrors that are lying beneath the surface of American adolescence. Wow. Same but different. Basically the same. What he said. Just to mirror what Homer said.

12:07Kaia Gerber:There's different doors to the same room. You know.

12:11Homer Gere:I actually did an escape room yesterday.

12:13Kaia Gerber:You did for fun? I've never done one of those. I've never done one, but my son is obsessed with Scooby-Doo, and there's a Scooby-Doo escape room in Rockfellar Center. It's so much fun. I love escape rooms. But we could not get into out of the room. Did you ask for hints? Because you know you can ask for hints, did you ask? We had to ask for so many hints. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like, this is for adults. I was like, well, it's Scooby-Doo. Like, obviously, I'm going to bring a six-year-old.

12:34Homer Gere:My friends stopped going to escape rooms with me because I take it so seriously.

12:39Kaia Gerber:It's such a personality pick to see, like we went with another family and their son and the way that the mother and father

12:47Homer Gere:were communicating around getting out of this was amazing. You learn a lot about people. Have you done an escape hunt? I haven't.

12:53Kaia Gerber:I would like to.

12:54Homer Gere:It was thrilling. Yeah.

12:55Kaia Gerber:Is it like a series of hints? Like is there like a scavenger hunt kind of thing? Yes, it's a full scavenger hunt with like clues where there's a poem, but you have to know that before is B4 on the thing. and you do the whole I feel like you would excel. You'd love it. I think I would kill.

13:11Homer Gere:Yeah. You should do a shards it's gonna be right we should do a shards themed escape room.

13:16Kaia Gerber:Honestly that's not a bad idea.

13:17Homer Gere:It's great and we can all be hiding in there and pop out and go Susan Kesser

13:20Kaia Gerber:let's do it.

13:27Kaia Gerber:The run through will be back in a moment.

13:35Kaia Gerber:This episode is brought to you by DeeDee's Discounts. Back to School Season is officially here,

13:41Homer Gere:and DeeDee's has everything on your list. I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials, all at prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on DeeDee's.

13:52Kaia Gerber:Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, DeeDee's has your whole family covered. Find a DeeDee's Discount store near you and go check it out today.

14:06Kaia Gerber:I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week, we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy-brand with it. Right. We take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture and also in your everyday life. We go highbrow, we go lowbrow, we go everything in between. Food culture to meme culture, Charlie XCX to Toni Morrison.

14:42Kaia Gerber:K-pop to the Kennedys. From horror movies to heated rivalry. From the Oscars to the Met Gala. The Golden Bachelor to Wuthering Heights, great expectations to Desperate Housewives. That's what we're talking about over here. We're having fun. It's Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

15:05Kaia Gerber:Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

15:40Kaia Gerber:Less Than Zero and The Shards really, I think what Brett does so well is he captures these themes of wealthy childhood in Los Angeles. And I, who grew up in Los Angeles at prep schools there, it's all the places I used to go to growing up. It makes me just want to drive around LA again. Are there any places you want to revisit after reading these? Like, did you go to Fred Siegel? Are you too young for Fred Siegel?

16:05Homer Gere:I had a Fred Siegel moment. I really did. What was so fun for me about reading the book and then also listening to the audiobook, which Brett himself narrates, is, you know, you'll be driving on Mulholland. And in the book, it's like, I took Mulholland out, you know? And so I think that part's really fun. I wish the Hamburger Hamlet was still around. I used to go there every Sunday night for dinner. So you've been? Yes. That's so funny. You've seen the show? Yes. Does our hamburger hamlet look like the real hamburger hamlet? There have been a few different hamburger hamlets.

16:36Kaia Gerber:It doesn't look like the one. I used to go to the one on Doheny and Sunset. Okay, so it was a different one. And it was a different one. But it was very close to my heart.

16:42Homer Gere:We feel like we've been because we spent so many hours. So much in there. So many hours shooting in our sets. Smoky hours in there. Smoky hours at the hamlet.

16:48Kaia Gerber:There was a lot of first take choosing that we were going to smoke during that scene. Always in the state. And then you're about eight hours deep into smoking that herbal cigarette. And then they're like, action, you're like, right. Is there an option for a fake cigarette? And what is that? Yeah, they're all. But I mean, is there one that's going to make you less raspy? Or not really? I mean, they're herbal cigarettes. It's still, you're still burning something and inhaling it, ultimately.

17:16Homer Gere:Which is usually how smoking works, I think, right? Does it? Yeah. I know.

17:21Kaia Gerber:I was never a smoker, so I feel I've missed this.

17:24Homer Gere:I like, I'm so aware of people smoking in TV shows and films and whether they're actually inhaling or if they smoke. So we were all pretty adamant about looking like we were smokers because, you know, these kids are smoking all the time. And so not that I endorse that, but we really wanted to make it look like that was something we actually did. We did a good job with that. I think you guys did a great job. Thank you.

17:46Kaia Gerber:Hayes had a couple moments of, are you actually?

17:48Homer Gere:I don't think Hayes has ever actually inhaled anything. Yeah. You can spot the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

17:55Kaia Gerber:No, I love, I have to say, from like the Polo Bar to La Scala and Carney's, you have a nice panorama of Los Angeles must-see. We're doing a map of really everywhere, how to do a tour of the Shards LA.

18:09Homer Gere:In the Shards LA. That's so sweet. It actually is so wonderful, and it did make me fall back in love with LA. And it really, I feel like our show is a love letter to LA, and I feel like the book was also a love letter to LA. even though sometimes Brett Easton Ellis is very nihilistic, it's still you can tell that he loves the city. Totally. And I really like that. Yeah.

18:28Kaia Gerber:Go into that much detail about it if he doesn't. No, my experience was not, I had never really been in L.A. I'd maybe spent, you know, four or five nights total in my life before shooting this. So I was discovering L.A. through the locations we were shooting in the show. Wow. Which was really interesting, you know, going to like the Village Theater.

18:47Homer Gere:That was your first time at the Village Theater? Yeah.

18:49Kaia Gerber:Yeah, I hadn't been anywhere. So, yeah, it was kind of a cool lens to discover a new city. And I think it made me love L.A. I mean, the Village Theater was where the first place I would go that I would be allowed to go by myself. Really? My parents would drop you off in Westwood and you could go to California Pizza Kitchen and see the Village Theater. That CPK is so good.

19:13Homer Gere:I know. Oh, my gosh.

19:15Kaia Gerber:I know that was a confusion for me when Ryan Murphy's last show came out. Everyone was like, CBK, CBK. And I kept calling her CBK. CBK. CBK and JFK Jr.

19:28Kaia Gerber:But Kaya disabused us of the notion. I feel like people are like, oh, Kaya grew up in L.A. That must have been like what her childhood was like.

19:33Homer Gere:But from what I've read and heard about your upbringing, it's very much not the case. Not at all. I mean, I grew up in Malibu, which, you know, I say L.A., but it really felt separated from that. I did not go to any elite prep schools. I went to Malibu High School, which was incredible and kind of exactly what you think it would be. But yeah, I actually didn't start discovering L.A. proper until I moved back to L.A. from New York. So I was like, you know, 20. So this was also me discovering certain parts of L.A. Like I didn't have that childhood there. So it was fun to reenact it now. Because these kids are really living loose and naughty.

20:15Homer Gere:They're living it up. Their parents are nowhere to be seen. Or if you do see their parents, they're almost more troubled than they even are.

20:20Kaia Gerber:You wish they weren't there.

20:21Homer Gere:You almost think they'd be better off without. And yeah, there's no guidance really for these kids. They are adults.

20:27Kaia Gerber:So much access.

20:28Homer Gere:They live like adults. And there's, yeah, access and excess. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

20:33Kaia Gerber:Was high school senior Kaya and Homer similar at all to what these, like, what was your partying version of, what was the worst thing you were doing senior year of high school? friends mom's not over let's go play beer pong in the basement that's about as far as it got

20:51Homer Gere:i was never a senior in high school oh wow i i dropped out well i graduated early but i kind of dropped out so i but i was because you started modeling full-time at six yeah i i moved here and i was working full-time um so i didn't have that experience so well based on the shards you're okay

21:11Kaia Gerber:What was your first thing with Vogue? How old were you?

21:14Homer Gere:With American Vogue, I think probably 16. I think I did a story when I was 16 or 17. Yeah. Yeah, I know. We now don't allow under 18, but that was recently. It was, I thankfully caught, I think I was like the last year. And then, yeah, yeah. And then I was 18. I think I did my first solo cover. And then I got to do a cover with Homie.

21:38Kaia Gerber:I want to talk about the cover because I got to visit you guys on set right before you started shooting I mean you'd already done a day of shooting but you had just arrived what Kaya you've been shooting with Stephen Mizell since you were 13 yeah isn't that crazy Homer had never done so what did you what was advice you shared with him about a Stephen Mizell

21:57Homer Gere:I mean I don't really think I gave you that much advice except I was like here's kind of how it normally works What I love about Steven is he's very consistent. And once you work with him a couple of times, you understand the way that he works and you really trust him. I mean, he's such a – he's incredible. He's such a professional. He's such – like he's to me one of the photographers I feel the most fortunate to have worked with.

22:24Kaia Gerber:There's really a cadence to how he works though. Yeah, there's a rhythm to it. Once you figure out what the basic of it is, then you're really going quick.

22:30Homer Gere:Yeah, and he puts a mirror in front of you, which is actually very helpful. because he's so much about posing and hands and head to toe, your whole body. So once you get that pose, there's a lot of movement. But you honestly stepped onto that set, and I was like, it's like you've been doing this since you were 13.

22:47Kaia Gerber:It was really fun to do with you, too. I feel like we were on the same page about everything.

22:51Homer Gere:We like working with each other.

22:53Kaia Gerber:We do like working together. Yeah. What was your, because the original fashion idea around this issue and this story was, We were so impressed when we came back in March from the collections by how these new creative directors were reinterpreting these iconic houses and these fashion designers with their own point of view and their own perspective, but bringing it to houses with such heritage. And so it was sort of about reinventing your heritage and turning over a new leaf. And so we really paired, it became like this, you know, study hall, beautiful mind project where we had a 1950s Dior bar jacket plus Jonathan Anderson's version from 2026.

23:35Kaia Gerber:And it was about pairing those classic moments with their new interpretation. How did you approach what you were wearing? What were some of your favorite pieces that you wore? Spencer Singer styled it. I think he did such a brilliant job.

23:49Homer Gere:It was so fun to work with Spencer. I've been such a fan of his for so long. And it was so fun to also have someone that young styling the cover of American Vogue. And Homer and I are still sort of young. Just like hanging out with him.

23:59Kaia Gerber:I know. He's a good hang.

24:00Homer Gere:Yeah. He's a good hang. We didn't want it to be over.

24:03Kaia Gerber:We both have run into him since on the street.

24:05Homer Gere:On the street. Yeah, it's great. But I thought the clothes were so good. And it's funny. Like my mom says, she's like, when I was modeling. That's literally not what she sounds like at all. She sounds exactly like me. You may sound like Fran Leibowitz. Back when I was modeling. She's like, it was the name of the designer was the name of the house. You know, you had like Gianni Versace at Versace. And now it's, you know, it's so interesting because that's not the case anymore. But it's so fun for me seeing people that I came up with, like Mattu, now being, you know, the creative director of Chanel.

24:44Homer Gere:It's like, it's so wild for me. When did you first meet Matt Che? I met him, I feel like, with Raph when I did Calvin, which was my first show. Wow. I know. It's insane. Back in the day. Back in the day.

24:59Kaia Gerber:But I was going to say, I think my favorite outfit from that was, I think, what ended up being the cover, which was the Celine jacket and jeans. Yes. Right? I thought you were also in Chanel, but it is the jeans and jacket. It was Chanel. Yeah. but Kai's in an amazing so good that dress which is a great example of reimagining a classic coat of like the Chanel tweed suit but in you know

25:27Homer Gere:printed metal yeah there's metallic yeah it's so beautiful oh I love I love what he's doing right now so much

25:33Kaia Gerber:we have such funny pictures from that set day

25:35Homer Gere:you and me yeah I know on August 11 you share them on August 11 is that the day yeah

25:42Kaia Gerber:wow soon That is so soon. It's very exciting. My God.

25:45Homer Gere:Yeah. We got to go to newsstands.

25:47Kaia Gerber:Are we going to do that? Well, yes. You're in L.A., but I want to go with Homer and Spencer. I'll come wherever you want me. And if Spencer's there, I'm absolutely there. Gracie just did that. Gracie Abrams came and was so cute. She signed issues for people at Iconic magazines, and they were so excited.

26:05Homer Gere:Her cover was so beautiful. I know.

26:06Kaia Gerber:She looked amazing. She's the best. We love Gracie.

26:09Homer Gere:You've been friends with Gracie for a long time. She's also an L.A. native. Yeah, I've known Gracie for over 10 years. And I'm just her biggest fan. I've always been her biggest fan. But just to see someone excelling and being the best at doing exactly what they were put on this earth to do makes me so happy. And I also just so happen to love her on a personal level, too. But she's just a magical, wonderful human. Have you listened to the new album? Of course. On repeat. What's your favorite song? I love Daughter from Hell. I really do. I also love Good Reason. Minibar is very fun. I'm going to name the whole album now.

26:48Kaia Gerber:Minibar has been the fan favorite. Minibar is a bop.

26:51Homer Gere:And I love Audrey Hobart too, who I know she wrote that with. Have you been listening? I have been listening. We're big Gracie fans here. Have you been listening, Homer, to the Gracie Abrams album?

27:00Kaia Gerber:I'm sorry, I haven't been listening to the Gracie Abrams album. But I'm a big fan.

27:02Homer Gere:We have some homework for Homer. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send you my faves. Don't worry.

27:08Kaia Gerber:Gracie is getting into acting too. Have you guys talked about that? Have you given her any advice? Are there other people who sort of have hybrid careers?

27:17Homer Gere:I mean, I don't think Gracie, something about Gracie is she's so wise and so smart and also so well read. I love sharing books with her. She doesn't really need any advice. And Helena Rain, who's directing that movie, is also a dear friend and such a fun person to work with. we did something together for Givenchy a while ago and she's just the kind of director that would never ask you to do something that she wouldn't do herself and quite literally will be doing next to you if you want support like that and I think that's so rare and so she's just like I mean that's a dream first director to work with so I have the utmost faith in them well I'm very excited about that movie me too and Connor's story's in it too right I know do you know who that is Homer?

28:00Kaia Gerber:I know who that is I read that script actually it's a great script really? It's really good.

28:04Homer Gere:I can't wait. I'm so excited for that movie.

28:07Kaia Gerber:I want to know if you guys, I always think about in Less Than Zero, how a lot of the story is about clay journaling and going back and forth. Are you guys big journalers? Do you keep a diary? It's not an everyday thing, but I'll go pages deep. Okay. By hand or typed? It used to be typed because I wanted to, I can get more out quicker. Me too, yeah. but then I find that it loses some kind of quality or something when I'm not doing it by hand I'll do either I don't think it really matters that much what you're doing as long as you're getting stuff down yeah but usually like on a plane or on a train or yeah automobile

28:48Homer Gere:um I I go through phases but I do love on a plane to just write whatever's coming to me and they make no sense if you go through my notes app it is you're you're worried about me I'm very confused. I know the notes app is it. The notes app is so funny because the dichotomy of like grocery list and then you're like, when I was 12. Like it's like insane. It's crazy we have one place where we can put all of that. And it's I think the most insightful thing to look at. If you want to get to know someone, the notes app tells you so much. What's the last thing you put in your notes app? The last thing I put in my notes app.

29:26Kaia Gerber:I wrote down Scooby-Dooche. because I thought that was funny. Just to call it like a dog. You don't like a dog, you call it a scooby-dish.

29:34Homer Gere:You're out of your mind.

29:35Kaia Gerber:Isn't that good? You're out of your mind. That's actually good.

29:37Homer Gere:Especially after my escape room experience. Yeah, I almost said it. To tie it back to the escape room. I don't know. Honestly, I think that I was writing down some notes about Less Than Zero because I did a reread because I knew we were going to talk about it. And I loved the part that I wrote down that I loved is Clay gets really annoyed at the comment that people are afraid to merge onto freeways in LA. Yes, I want to make t-shirts with that. It's so good, but also I am afraid. I'm afraid to merge. It's terrifying. And I've been driving in LA for almost 10 years, and I'm afraid to merge.

30:05Kaia Gerber:But honestly, I sort of feel that you should be afraid to merge.

30:08Homer Gere:People who are not afraid to merge, yes. You have to care about life more. I agree. You have to have more of a lust for life. If you're not afraid to merge, then you need something else to live for.

30:17Kaia Gerber:But also, on a level, being assertive is more safe than being scared. Yes, every DMV teacher says, be defensive, blah, blah, blah. But I still think that a healthy amount of concern about your surroundings is important. I think fearing death at any part of your life is helpful. I think it keeps your priorities straight. There you go. Good job. Kaya, back to you. Am I afraid of death? Not the question. I think being, you know, intimately aware of our own mortality is what makes us human.

30:47Homer Gere:It's true. That's a good notes app. Yeah. Scooby-Dooche and. No, but that's what notes app is. It would go from Scooby-Dooche to that. Yeah.

30:55Kaia Gerber:The one beneath it is like everything is reforming anew. Everything comes apart in reforms.

31:01Homer Gere:I found one of my old journals recently. Some of the cast, except for homework, because he was with his mother. But for Thanksgiving, we all stayed at my parents' house and did Thanksgiving with them. Oh, my God. How fun. It was so fun. You missed out. We would have loved to have you. I knew you had plans, and you would not have come. I know you well enough by now.

31:18Kaia Gerber:It's still a courtesy to just say that.

31:19Homer Gere:But we were all in my childhood bedroom, and we found my old journals when we were going through, and I opened to a page, and, like, the first sentence is, like, all I feel is pain. And I was like, geez, Kaya.

31:30Kaia Gerber:I totally have ones like that, too. Yes. So emo. It was so dramatic.

31:34Homer Gere:I think I was listening to a lot of Linkin Park and Michael Romance and going through a phase. Yeah. So who cooked for Thanksgiving? We all chipped in a little bit. I did the—oh, I made a carrot cake, which I know is not traditional. Oh, you talked about that the last time you were on the podcast. I guess I can't stop talking about my carrot cake. I'm very impressed.

31:52Kaia Gerber:Well, I was actually listening to that again last night, and I was very impressed by your frosting, which is white chocolate and cream cheese.

31:59Homer Gere:Yes, white chocolate and cream cheese. It's so good. And then a little bit of lemon.

32:03Kaia Gerber:Carrot cake is my favorite cake.

32:04Homer Gere:I will make it for you. I love carrot cake.

32:05Kaia Gerber:Will you?

32:06Homer Gere:Yeah, absolutely.

32:07Kaia Gerber:I usually ask for that if I have a birthday cake.

32:09Homer Gere:Really? I would be happy to make you one. It's delicious. It's the best cake. Yeah, I did that. Igby brought some things. things. Hayes brought her energy and her presence and her humor. Her gall. But yeah, it was really fun to spend Thanksgiving as the family that we are. Wow. Minus Homer. Kind of worked for what we were filming though.

32:33Kaia Gerber:What do I cook? Well, I've been really into this like Moroccan salad recently. It's like quinoa, like frizzled chickpeas, dates, slivered almonds, a little lemon with like a little pan fried salmon like a yogurt sauce. Wow. Are you kidding me? I've been making little like homemade sodas not homemade but like pomegranate juice

32:58Homer Gere:Do you have a soda stream?

33:00Kaia Gerber:No. I do the pom with like club soda.

33:02Homer Gere:Okay. Oh wow.

33:03Kaia Gerber:Which is good.

33:04Homer Gere:I love a mocktail. I've been very into a mocktail lately. They've really mocktails have upped their game. They're back. Yeah. I guess drinking is out and mocktails are back. I do feel like no one is drinking right now.

33:15Kaia Gerber:Gen Z is drinking the least out of any. I know. Have you seen that? Yeah.

33:18Homer Gere:Are you guys drinking?

33:21Kaia Gerber:Less than, much less this year. It feels like it's going down every year. Yeah. How much I'm drinking.

33:26Homer Gere:Do you think it's because the hangovers get worse, or at least in my experience? For me, that's 100%. I'm just like, with every passing day.

33:31Kaia Gerber:The sleep is bad. I can't get more than like five hours if I've had a couple drinks.

33:35Homer Gere:The sleep is bad. The anxiety I've noticed gets worse and worse. So I'm not currently drinking right now, but I do love a French Gimlet.

33:44Kaia Gerber:I think it's just like an urge to feel good, basically. To drink or to not drink? No, to not drink. Like you just realize you're like, I would rather feel good than— I'm like drinking, right?

33:52Homer Gere:To feel good. No, yeah. I think that was all this time.

33:55Kaia Gerber:As you get older, your priorities just get a little more healthy maybe.

33:59Homer Gere:I don't know. Do you drink?

34:00Kaia Gerber:I do. I have a—I feel like I drink because I'm always rushing either from work, home to my kids, and I feel like I find a glass of wine very grounding for that transition.

34:13Homer Gere:I couldn't agree more. I say this, like, sometimes to transition from work into home life or relaxation and turn your brain off and play and win, then I think, like, you know, you have a drink just to signal to your body, like, stop working. Yes. For me, it's like tea time, but a little later. But with a little something in there.

34:35Kaia Gerber:But so, yes, but I do feel that I notice my aura rank sleep score is different if I drink later. so I really try to get it done early not drink more than three hours before I go to sleep

34:45Homer Gere:yeah forget about REM I mean forget about it forget about REM I bet you have a lot of REM don't you

34:50Kaia Gerber:I what is that what are you don't you yeah don't you

34:56Homer Gere:you have a lot of REM what's your REM score

34:57Kaia Gerber:your arm moves so fast

35:00Homer Gere:wrap it on me your eyes are going crazy when you sleep aren't they

35:04Kaia Gerber:I've been made aware that I've been doing this thing when I sleep when I have my arms in the air

35:08Homer Gere:what yeah

35:09Kaia Gerber:wow I just thought I'm like

35:10Homer Gere:that's haunting that's creepy that's a harrowing sight to wake up to yeah

35:15Kaia Gerber:so the rem's going well yeah

35:22the run through

35:23Kaia Gerber:will be back in a moment

35:32Kaia Gerber:this episode is brought to you by Didi's Discounts back to school season

35:36Homer Gere:is officially here and Didi's has everything on your list I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on Dee Dee's.

35:49Kaia Gerber:Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, Dee Dee's has your whole family covered. Find a Dee Dee's discount store near you and go check it out today.

36:01Kaia Gerber:This episode is brought to you by Dee Dee's Discounts. Back to school season is officially here and Dee Dee's has everything on your list.

36:08Homer Gere:I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on Dee Dee's.

36:18Kaia Gerber:Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, Dee Dee's has your whole family covered. Find a Dee Dee's discount store near you and go check it out today. The best summer memories are made outside. And L.L. Bean has the clothing and gear you need to make these memories. Their effortless styles are created for summers spent outside with family and friends. Like hand-sewn boat shoes, coastal cotton sweaters, rugged polos, and, of course, the iconic Boat & Tote, which has been made right here in Maine since 1944. L.L. Bean. Be an outsider. Visit llbean.com to learn more.

37:01Kaia Gerber:Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

37:35Kaia Gerber:I want to know how you guys dressed in high school and if it was similar to the Shards. Because that's one of my favorite things about this show is I think the fashion is so fab. And I think people are going to be just obsessed with it.

37:49Homer Gere:I mean, shout out Lou and Josh, our incredible costume designers. The clothes. Like, it was so sad to get back into our normal people clothes at the end of every day because we looked so chic. And then I was putting on my sweatpants and Uggs, which I love and wear every day. but I was like and now we're back to being a normal regular girl

38:09Kaia Gerber:yeah I was I tried to steal stuff honestly yeah what did you take

38:12Homer Gere:we always ask people what they took from their last set did you steal anything

38:16Kaia Gerber:I stole a bunch of tank tops I liked

38:18Homer Gere:that's fair

38:19Kaia Gerber:yeah which was like normal yeah I tried to take a pair of leather pants I wear a lot of leather pants in this show but I got caught actually

38:27Homer Gere:really yeah those leather pants leather pants

38:32Kaia Gerber:I couldn't tell if it was like a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing or if I actually started liking it. I don't know. Yeah. But by the end of it, I was into it. Are you going to be method dressing during the press tour wearing any leather pants? No leather pants. No. I can let that rest for a little bit. I think. It's summer.

38:49Homer Gere:I spent six months straight in leather pants. It's so crazy. Six months.

38:54Kaia Gerber:It's also like we're in summer. I'm not wearing dark leather pants in summer. That's true. That's true. I mean, some would. A death wish. You could. Fair enough. Unless I want to be intimately aware of my mortality.

39:05Homer Gere:That's true. As one does.

39:07Kaia Gerber:Yeah, as one should.

39:08Homer Gere:As one should.

39:10Kaia Gerber:What did you wear? What was your uniform in high school? Or no, you didn't have one.

39:12Homer Gere:I didn't have a uniform. I wore, I had Heelys that I loved and wore. What is that? Heelys. Oh my goodness.

39:22Kaia Gerber:The wheel on the back of the shoe that you can wear. The ones that you call them? Oh, my kids want those and I'm like that. Talk about death wish. They are dangerous. They're hard to learn too.

39:31Homer Gere:I had a really cool pair of SpongeBob Heelys, so I liked those. I had some like, I mean, I grew up in Malibu, so it was a lot of like, like Billabong and Roxy and like Javianas and Uggs. And I wouldn't say I had great style in a high school, but my school was very casual. It was like people would go surfing and then walk up to school. So it was a lot of that attire, beach attire, I think.

40:00Kaia Gerber:That's exactly what I had in mind when you say Malibu High School.

40:03Homer Gere:Well, you're correct, by the way. You were probably, you were East Coast, you were probably, wait, what was the brand that you said? And I was like, what is that? And you couldn't believe I'd never heard of it?

40:11Kaia Gerber:Vineyard Vines.

40:12Homer Gere:Vineyard Vines. He said Vineyard Vines. I'm like, what is that? I'm thinking like Grey Gardens. I'm like, what? It just shows the difference in us. I'm like, I love that movie.

40:21Kaia Gerber:I love that movie.

40:22Homer Gere:I love that movie. And yeah, I had never heard of it.

40:26Kaia Gerber:I went to like, I went to a Westchester prep school. So we had a, we had a uniform. It was khakis and, you know, a button-down shirt. But until—and then my senior year, they switched to a gender-neutral dress code, which was really hard for the teachers to understand because you were allowed to wear a blouse if you were a girl or a woman. So then I was allowed to wear blouses all of a sudden. But blouse is not a very defined term, I guess. I was wearing a lot of regular shirts, and no one could really enforce it.

40:55Homer Gere:Oh, interesting.

40:55Kaia Gerber:So senior year was kind of—we were all going buck wild.

40:57Homer Gere:Wow.

40:58Kaia Gerber:Wearing white shirts. As one does senior year. Yeah, exactly. Do your kids have— They don't have uniforms. And I actually—it disappoints me because kids are just in pajamas every day. Are you picking out the outfits? Well, thank you for asking. It's a point of concern. Oh, no. My son is like a doll. Like, you can just put on whatever you want. He just doesn't care. My daughter and I, it is like a very robust negotiation. Okay, how old is she? She's four. Yeah. Opinionated. Every morning. she's also in like a very like Mormon phase where she just wants to wear only long sleeve like long dresses and I was like it's a heat wave

41:39Homer Gere:she's in her trad wife era

41:41Kaia Gerber:she's fully in her trad wife era and she's going full ballerina form totally I have to you know I'm like you need to wear shorts you're going to gymnastics camp she's like tripping over this like fluffy dress Oh my gosh, it's so funny. So we're working through that. Okay. But yeah. Yeah. I wish you well. Thank you so much. I want to know if there's any similarities between Kaya and Susan. Susan Reynolds, who is your character. Yes, Susan Reynolds.

42:11Homer Gere:Because I love that part of the cover story where you were like, we have nothing in common. We have nothing in common. Well, that is the funniest part is when we all first met for the first time, it was like a week before we did the camera tests. I was looking around I was like everyone's exactly like their characters except for me and they all just looked at me excuse me and they were like you think you're the exception and honestly like the the deeper into filming we got the more similarities I noticed I had with Susan or maybe some of Susan was rubbing off on me she has this sort of quiet confidence and an effortlessness I don't relate to the effortlessness that she has in her like she wins everything but it feels effortless i'm very obviously effortful so we don't relate in that way but um yeah i think the sort of the dynamic in the group ended up being that i was kind of the susan like rallying everyone i was planning things i think that's right thanksgiving you were class president of of our cast thank you and i ran for class president and i did not get elected

43:16Kaia Gerber:and it was so sad really so sad chloe mal she'll be your pal that's such a genius how do you spell Like normal pal. Which, of course, everyone pronounces my ass name Maul, so everyone was like, what? This doesn't even rhyme. Chloe Maul will be your pal. Maul will be your Paul. Chloe Maul will be your Paul.

43:34Homer Gere:Yeah. Devastating. So it was really fun for me to do the assembly scenes because I was living out my fantasy. And I knew they were all, like, everyone was paid to clap for me, but I didn't care at all. You loved it. I loved it.

43:46Kaia Gerber:That was a long day, and you kept energy all the way through.

43:49Homer Gere:It was the best day of my life. I would go back and do it every day if I could.

43:53Kaia Gerber:That's actually kind of a good microcosm of us and our characters. What? Because you're saying it's this speech where we're doing it kind of together. Oh, for really Rhonda? For really Rhonda. And she's giving this really serious speech, and I'm kind of giving this ironic little asides. I think the way that me and Robert are the most similar is he's just kind of ironic and self-aware and kind of, you know what I mean?

44:14Homer Gere:I love the Khalil Gibran line that you say.

44:17Kaia Gerber:Yeah, I say the most, I say the darndest things.

44:19Homer Gere:Was this your first set?

44:21Kaia Gerber:No, Euphoria was. Oh, I didn't know if this film before Euphoria. It was one after the other. I had three days off between. Wow. Oh, my God. Did Kaya, a Ryan Murphy veteran, give you any advice?

44:34Kaia Gerber:There must have been. I mean, there's a lot of like, I mean, we're with each other all the time. So it's like, it's little things. It's like, who's that? What's that person's name again? You know, in that kind of way. But I don't know if it was like a welcome to the club. This is what you need to know.

44:48Homer Gere:Oh, and it was my first time, you know, the shows that I'd done with Ryan in the past, he didn't direct on. So it was my first time working this closely with Ryan. And so I got some really great advice from Sarah Poulsen. We got some good stuff from Sarah Poulsen. Yeah, like Sarah was really helpful and lovely. They've worked so closely for years. What did Sarah tell you? She just was like, don't be afraid to ask him questions. Like he really, he's, the thing about Ryan is he's really there to take care of you as an actor, to look out for you, to help you. Like, he's so generous in a way that he in no way needs to be.

45:19Kaia Gerber:And that he loves actors. He loves actors. Like, he wants you to be comfortable and for things to work out. So you just have to self-advocate. You just have to say what you need.

45:27Homer Gere:So I think that gave me confidence, and I passed that on to everyone of, like, if you have a question about a scene or you're not sure about something, just go to Ryan. And he's so generous with his time about things like that. And I was so grateful to have, you know, a direct line to go to for that kind of thing. Yeah.

45:41Kaia Gerber:I just want to hear about acting trajectories. Because, Homer, as you were saying, this was you had your two first sets back to back. And you really grew up very much shielded from anything in the public eye, right? I grew up about as normal as I could have. Yeah. Was that obviously a conscious decision by your parents to—I can't believe you'd only spent four days in L.A. until— Yeah, I mean, they were both New York—I mean, my mom grew up in Colorado, but she was born in New York. They were New York people. My dad's from Syracuse. Okay. So that's all our families were there. Okay. And so it was important to them that you and your, do you have siblings?

46:17Kaia Gerber:Yes. I was kind of raised an only child. I have this crazy. Brady Bunchy. Six siblings, no one within 10 years. Amazing. Mom's side, I'm the youngest. Dad's side, I'm the oldest. Actually, I'm the same. Really? I have four siblings, no one within 10 years. Really? It's an odd kind of thing. Yeah. Wow. But I've grown to love it and it all happened quick. Like I went from one older half sibling, my sister Hannah, to six all of a sudden. And it's been lovely to have, like, an extended family like that. I was just wondering because I feel like, Kaya, you started working very young. When did you do Versace Kids at 10?

46:49Kaia Gerber:10. But it also feels like you had this very sort of cosseted childhood in Malibu. Do you feel like as parents you would do the same, that you would want to keep your kids out of the public eye? Or do you feel like it's good to have some mixture of the two so that people get adjusted to it?

47:06Homer Gere:Yeah, I think, honestly, there was no stopping me. like I don't know if you've seen Oh Mary but there's a line in Oh Mary where Mary Talbinkin says when you keep me from the stage the whole world suffers or the whole world is miserable like that was me as a child so by the time I did you know Versace when I was 10 I was doing all the community theater in Malibu I was doing all the singing recitals like I was that's what I wanted to do and so I think there was really no stopping me so I think like my parents just trusted what I wanted in my dream and of course they like my mom was on set with me you know when I was 10 she wasn't sending me off and um but I also feel grateful that then outside of those experiences I was having a very very normal life I went to public school like I I really I mean this even this press tour this feels like I've never done anything like this like this is a whole new level So we're all really going through this together.

48:05Homer Gere:While I might have been in the public eye, quote, unquote, for longer, this is a first time for all of us, really. Something of this scale, I think.

48:13Kaia Gerber:Are there any lessons you guys have taken from your parents on how to navigate that? I just ask because I do feel like as, you know, the Daily Mail writes mean things about me or, you know, people are more focused on how I'm presenting myself, et cetera. I do find that I look to my mom in the way that she, frankly, doesn't give a shit. Yes. And I find that very helpful and inspiring. Is there anything that you've either actual advice you've taken from your parents about how to navigate this moment or just by learning by example? I think the biggest thing, I talk to my dad a lot about this kind of stuff.

48:49Kaia Gerber:And he's like the best possible confidant. But his basic takeaway was that the way you're going to thrive and survive best in this industry and this job is if you treat it as a job. You know, it can't be your whole life. You need to go home from it. You know, you have work and then you have home. And keep both healthy and keep both relatively separate.

49:09Homer Gere:Yeah.

49:10Kaia Gerber:And I think that's been really helpful so far.

49:12Homer Gere:Yeah.

49:13Kaia Gerber:Yeah. When I go to L.A., when we shoot, I work and then I go home. You know, yeah. Yeah.

49:18Homer Gere:Or to the rock climbing gym.

49:19Kaia Gerber:Or to the rock climbing gym. Oh, my God. I want to talk about that. Because what is the difference between normal rock climbing and sport climbing? uh well if rock climbing is the umbrella term sport climbing is a specific version where the the rock is already has bolts in it that people have put have have drilled a bolt into so then i'm going up and i'm putting uh a carabiner basically a quick draw and i'm have my rope tied to me and i'm bringing the rope up with me as i go up did you ever rock climb in providence There was a gym in Pawtucket that we used to go to. I went to the one in Warwick.

49:55Kaia Gerber:But yes, I have been to that one. Okay. Yes. But yes, we were laughing because somewhere I learned that you're a rock climber. And then we were talking that apparently it's the sport right now. Everyone and a 25-year-old on our team was like, every guy's hinge photo is him on a rock.

50:11Homer Gere:It can't be the hinge photo. Like the nice thing about—

50:14Kaia Gerber:Hey, it was mine and it worked. Was it actually?

50:16Homer Gere:And I'll tell you about your girlfriend. Yeah. Okay, maybe it should be your hinge. What do I know? I had a brief love affair with rock climbing, and I really actually enjoyed it a lot. But the dedication that Homer has, I mean, we'd wrap at 8 p.m., and he'd go to the climbing gym. Wow.

50:32Kaia Gerber:And full glam. And full glam. I took the makeup off. And leather pants. I took the leather pants off. I had leather jorts. Yeah, I'm a man of class, okay.

50:44Homer Gere:I had lords.

50:44Kaia Gerber:Leather shorts. wow yeah i want to know if you guys are on letterboxd and also kaya i want to know how you keep track of what you're reading do you have a libby account um so is it in your notes app

51:00Homer Gere:yes all of it so letterboxd i'm very active on but i am under a fake name because i write really in-depth reviews you don't want to be charlie xcx and i don't want to be charlie xcx or what

51:10Kaia Gerber:happened to io2 i recently did that i had one that was under my name and i got rid of it and i

51:15Homer Gere:I think they should be able to, you should be able to make your account on Letterboxd private. Yes. I think that should be worked on. So anyone at Letterboxd, please help. Letterboxd. Letterboxd. We need you. But I love Letterboxd. And I honestly like. What's the last movie you wrote a review of on Letterboxd? It was The Odyssey. What did we think? It was The Odyssey. I loved it. I did too. I loved it. It was so fun to watch. And I also, like, I get so excited. I don't care about a like on Instagram when someone likes my review on Letterboxd, especially because I'm just a random name. I will brag all night about this one got 23 likes.

51:53Homer Gere:Like, I'm so excited about my— I have something. Yeah, no, no. I'm like, there's something special here. There's something good in here. And then—

51:59Kaia Gerber:I'm so eloquent.

52:01Homer Gere:But also— Siskel and Ebert. My reviews make no sense in there. Like, there was one where I think I compared May, December to egg rolling. Like, it doesn't really make sense. Wow, I don't know what that means. Egg rolling is a competition. It's a sport, really, is what it is.

52:16Kaia Gerber:I wrote a terrible one. I said, this movie is like if a student film at$300 million.

52:20Homer Gere:Wow.

52:22Kaia Gerber:Ouch. That was ouchy, ouchy. Ouchy, ouch.

52:24Homer Gere:Yeah. We're going to find out who you are now. Yeah, I'm glad you went.

52:26Kaia Gerber:I've deleted it. The anonymous. My most recent one was Maddie's Secret, the John Early. I love John Early. Which I thought was great, honestly. People are very into that. Yeah. It's its own brand of comedy that hit me so hard.

52:39Homer Gere:Yeah.

52:39Kaia Gerber:Yeah.

52:40Homer Gere:We bond over our love of niche, strange, esoteric comedy.

52:44Kaia Gerber:Tim Robinson, Kyle Mooney.

52:45Homer Gere:We love Tim Robinson in this family.

52:48Kaia Gerber:In this house? In this house, we love Tim Robinson.

52:51Homer Gere:And then for reading, I use Goodreads, or I just have a notes app, like, hundreds deep. So every time I finish a book, I just put it on there. Because then it's easy. I don't know. Sometimes I'll be halfway through a book, and I'll be like, I think I've read this. I know. I have such a bad memory.

53:09Kaia Gerber:And I try to do notes app or my physical diary, but I also listen to a lot of books. So then it's a mix of Audible and Notes app. Same. I really like Letterboxd, but my issue with it became, and also tracking books, is that I'm doing it for an extrinsic reason. I'm doing it so that I can say that I read it. And then you lose the pleasure of actually doing it.

53:30Homer Gere:Like you're watching the movie just to say that you watched it.

53:32Kaia Gerber:Or what's a cool movie to add to my Letterboxd account? Oh, mine is not cool.

53:36Homer Gere:It's not cool at all. Homer's is. Mine's fucking dope. Homer's is sick. Homer's favorite movie is Come and See. Sorry.

53:45Kaia Gerber:I don't even know what that is.

53:46Homer Gere:I just feel like so many guys on their letterboxes, in their top four, it's like, Come and See. Do you know that movie?

53:52Kaia Gerber:No.

53:52Homer Gere:Okay. Tell us about it. It's horrific to watch. It's really a horror movie. It's so awful to watch when you're watching this. It's a war film, and it's this little boy going to war. It's horrible. Has a man made you watch this movie? Of course.

54:10Kaia Gerber:Hinge date gone wrong?

54:12Homer Gere:I was never on Hinge. Have you guys gone on double dates? No.

54:16Kaia Gerber:No. I love Louis. Thank you. All right. My last very important question is we were very excited that on set, you and Iggy are... Igby. Well, no. Iggy is our model booker. Oh. Sorry. No, no. Very fair. Very rare. You thought that Chloe had a nickname for Igby? Iggy. Iggy's cute, though. It's very close. It's very close. Um, you were telling me about your dog Milo, who we love, that you had him see a pet psychic. Yes, I did.

54:49Homer Gere:And I'm desperate to know what my dog Lloyd is thinking, and I want to know what you learned. Sharon Lloyd, you gotta see her. I get her emails every single week. She's like, the, like, Darla, the donkey, was having trouble eating, and now she's all, like, it's incredible. My mom got me an appointment with a pet psychic, which I was like, ha ha, very funny. and I was like, I'm just going to do it so I can laugh. Within five minutes, I'm sobbing hysterically. She also, my dog Milo totally outed me to her. She was like, Milo's saying sometimes you let the water bowl run dry. And I was like, you little shit.

55:26Homer Gere:Wow. Like it was really intuitive and wonderful. And it started as a joke and I honestly bought in, but I'm also pretty woo-woo. But you should honestly book an appointment with her. It's amazing. because they have, at least Milo had a lot to say. He had a lot to say.

55:43Kaia Gerber:I love Milo so much.

55:44Homer Gere:He loves you. Did Milo come to set? Milo came to set almost every day. Quite a bit. Oh, wow. And he also wants to be in Homer's mouth 24-7.

55:51Kaia Gerber:We kissed.

55:52Homer Gere:You guys kissed. You made out even. Well, dog's saliva is cleaner than human saliva, famously. Is that true? Yes, famously. Yeah.

55:59Kaia Gerber:He looks just like my dog when I was a kid, too. So, yeah. What was your dog's name? That's a secret.

56:06Homer Gere:Oh, really?

56:06Kaia Gerber:No.

56:10Kaia Gerber:All right, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was so fun. This was so much fun. Thanks for having us. All right. That's it for the show.

56:25Kaia Gerber:The Run Through the Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Alex John Burns. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer. The show is engineered by Pran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman.

56:47Homer Gere:This episode is brought to you by Deedee's Discounts.

56:50Kaia Gerber:Back to School season is officially here, and Deedee's has everything on your list.

56:55Homer Gere:I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on Deedee's.

57:04Kaia Gerber:Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, DeeDee's has your whole family covered. Find a DeeDee's discount store near you and go check it out today.

57:18Kaia Gerber:Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

57:48Kaia Gerber:I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week, we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy-brand with it. Right, we take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture

58:15Homer Gere:and also in your everyday life.

58:16Kaia Gerber:We go highbrow, we go lowbrow, we go everything in between. Food culture to meme culture, Charlie XCX to Toni Morrison. K-pop to the Kennedys. From horror movies to heated rivalry. From the Oscars to the Met Gala. The Golden Bachelor to Wuthering Heights. Great expectations to Desperate Housewives. That's what we're talking about over here. We're having fun. It's Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.