‘Love Story’ Star Sarah Pidgeon on Becoming Carolyn Bessette Kennedy

0:00Hi, I'm Arden Fanning Andrews, Vogue's beauty editor at large. My husband and I talk a lot of eBay strategy together because it is something that we have bonded over since the beginning of our relationship. We've known each other for 20 years, and we've been using eBay for even longer than that, both of us. He's very proud of his five-star review, which I have the same. We're pretty popular. We have a really good reputation on eBay.

0:27This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel. And I'm Cheminardi. And this week, everyone is in for a real treat. I was very lucky to speak to the one and only Sarah Pidgeon, the star of FX's new series Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bessette. And I have to say, I binged it over the weekend, and a lot of other people did too. I felt like everyone was running home from fashion shows to watch it. And actually, Sarah was at the Kate show with her castmates, Naomi Watts, who plays Jackie Kennedy, and Grace Gummer, who plays Caroline Kennedy. And so the three of them are posing together at Kate.

1:09And then Cassandra Gray, the beauty, Violet Gray beauty entrepreneur, was also at the Kate show wearing a Carolin Bissett Kennedy vintage Yoji Yamamoto skirt suit. And so she posed with Sarah Pidgeon in the CBK archive piece, which felt very exciting and full circle. And then Kate had this really fun party with my Teresa at Bemelman's Bar at the Carlisle after their show. And Sarah Pidgeon was there and she was sort of the belle of Bemelman's. Everyone was fluttering around her and she looked fabulous and was sort of channeling CBK with her Kate look. I actually haven't had a chance to watch it.

1:53Now you've piqued my interest. I'd love to hear your full review of the show. Well, I will say that after the great drama of the summer with the test shots that everyone lost their minds about, the fashion and beauty inaccuracy of them, the fashion is completely fixed and good on the show. Sarah Pidgeon looks fantastic. It really feels chic and like it nails that 90s minimalist look. And her hair looks great. And she actually, when the first test shots came out and everyone said she was too blonde, she was wearing a wig. And so then they really dyed her hair. And it makes a big difference. Wow.

2:37And what's the chemistry like between the two? It's good. I mean, Paul Anthony Kelly, he was a model and they had him read with Sarah Pidgeon, who had already been cast. And he looks so much like JFK Jr. that it's hard not to be sort of swept up in the two of them together. but they're super charming together. Oh, well, I can't wait to hear your interview with Sarah. Choma, I loved your Giselle Pelico cover so much. I thought she looked fantastic. Gabby Wood's profile on her, oh my God, it was so long and in-depth. I also, I heard her on NPR earlier this week, and she was just talking about how complicated it was to decide whether to have a private versus a public trial and how that decision was so weighted for her.

3:24And I feel like she's just displayed such bravery throughout this. Yeah, I mean, she's such, I mean, you know, it's such a cliche, but she is such an inspiration. I just think she truly embodies that. And a lot of women have responded. I've never seen such an outpouring for this cover. It's been quite amazing to watch because I think, obviously, we all admire her resilience and her willingness to be so vulnerable. on the world stage around something that was just so incredibly harrowing that happened to her. But what you get from the piece is this sense of generosity she had towards her partner and his situation and the things that he had endured as a child.

4:12So you kind of get this incredible context. I think Gabby's interview is so disarming and intimate. You get a real sense of intimacy with her and it ends on this wonderful note because obviously she's also found found love again and she has a new partner who came to set and I think it was quite an emotional wow it wasn't on the shoot but it was quite an emotional set was her first shoot in the string of press that she was doing she did very few interviews and then she did she did an interview the New York Times and then she did some TV interviews but I think it was like her first step into the spotlight in that way with her memoir.

4:50Wow. And knowing that the sort of details of her life, I mean, it's literally like a movie. Obviously we know. The one thing that you take away is this sense of hope and optimism and this idea that you can overcome and that you can also see how someone can do some incredibly horrendous things, but also have a human side to them. I mean, she was very, it was really illuminating and I encourage everybody to read it. It's a really gripping read and I think Gabby Woods is an incredible journalist and I'm so grateful to her that she took on the story. She had to transcribe the interview from, obviously she speaks French and she conducted the interview in French so she had to transcribe her interview and then obviously translate it into English to make sure that everything tracked.

5:41So it was quite an undertaking for her and obviously as you can imagine the legal implications and how many checks and balances the story had to go through. And so we're all really proud of it. And so her memoir is called A Hymn to Life, A Shame Has to Change Sides. All right, Choma, what are the highlights of London Fashion Week? Oh, my goodness. I can't believe we're literally hours away now from London Fashion Week. I know. Yeah. So on Thursday when this show airs, I'll be at Tolu Koka, which is a fantastic young designer. She's doing a presentation, which will kick off the week and she's been getting a lot of buzz.

6:22Chipova and Luena are doing a presentation. They don't usually. And I hear there's like a mini golf theme. So that'll be interesting to see. Then on Saturday, Erdem has his big 20th anniversary show. He's showing earlier in the day because we have the BAFTA awards in the evening. So all of the people who will be doing red carpet prep will be able to run to his show and then hopefully make the red carpet in the afternoon because it's quite an early carpet. I think it's like two to four or something in the afternoon. So there'll be a mad dash from the Erdem show for many of his Hollywood friends and starry actor British friends too.

7:01And then obviously Simone, one of my faves, will be showing on Sunday as well. And then we have... You always look so great in Simone. I love when you wear Simone. Oh, I love Simone. And I just love wearing her clothes because she's just such a wonderful person and friend. And she, yeah, it feels like a warm hug when you wear a designer that you know, you know, it's like it's something quite special. And then on Monday, Burberry will end the week. And we also have a guest designer coming from India, a brand called Romango that I think everyone's quite excited about. So they'll be bringing in some exciting South Asian talent.

7:40So we'll see who will show up there. So lots, lots to look forward to. And then, of course, we have our Vogue Cafe this weekend, which I'm excited about. And we have the big fashion and film party that comes after the BAFTAs. And Adam Madawi, my dear colleague, will be co-hosting the event on Fashion and Film Party. And now his title has completely changed. We have to give him a huge round of applause because he will be the new head of editorial content for GQ in the U.S. I am so excited. I've never met Adam, but you are such a big fan of his, Choma. And he's going to be in New York next week.

8:18So I'm very excited to get to chat with him before I head off to Milan. yeah I hope you do because he's he's really truly wonderful really a great colleague to have he's got an incredible sense of humor and he's got that Aussie optimism and a fantastic eye so um I urge you to get a coffee with him if you can because he's he's fab I think you guys are gonna really hit it off but yeah last night I was um I went to see Cynthia Erivo's much anticipated Dracula one woman show um and i was on the way in i saw michael calls and he was actually a couple of seats down from me which was really exciting and and i have to say cynthia is phenomenal i'm not sure how she it was a true feat of theater to be able to one just memorize the script that she had it was insane and then the the timing the theatrical timing because you see the other characters are often captured are pre-recorded because she plays every character and wow you see her interacting with the other characters all on cue so I just I can't imagine how difficult it was to pull it off it was incredible to watch it was truly incredible to watch so I think if anyone gets a chance to see it it's it's like nothing else I've ever seen and uh the director had a big a big hit with a picture of Dorian Gray which had a similar sort of narrative where there was one I I think Sarah Snook did a one-woman show of the picture of Dawn Gray.

9:49Yes, that was incredible. Yeah, so it's the same director. So this was quite incredible. So I hear you have a new newsletter. Tell me everything. I love the name, Malware. Well, we've been talking so much about personalizing our newsletters, and I do love when people send newsletters that feel like it reflects what they're actually reading, doing, seeing. And so actually Hannah Jackson, my colleague, came up with the name Malware, which the newsletter team at first was like, are we sure people aren't going to think they're being spammed? But I think we've persevered. And it's been fun. I mean, it does feel like sort of things I've liked on Vogue.com this week and things I've done.

10:35But yeah, this week I will say that it sort of overlaps with headlines too because it's sort of what things were up to. And one exhibit that I loved that I went to this week is the new show, photo show at MoMA, Ideas of Africa. And it's portraiture, mid-century African portraiture. And some of the photos are so beautiful and joyful and intimate. I really loved it. Wow. I actually think the last time I was in that gallery in the MoMA was when you and I went for the podcast, Choma, like three years ago for another African photo exhibition. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah, that was so good. It's that same gallery, and so it's great.

11:16Wow, and I imagine that it's the likes of like Malik Sidibe in that, if it's mid-century? Yes, exactly, and his photos were my favorite, I have to say. Yeah, and Saeedu Keita's got such amazing ones too. I'll have to go and see it when I'm next in town. Choma, I'm watching Love Story. I'm reading this book Strangers which is a memoir of an affair by this woman Belle Burden that I feel like everyone and on all my group chats have been talking about this sort of divorce affair memoir and so that's been a fun read and yeah I'm getting ready for my trip it's going to be the longest I'm away from my kids two full weeks I'm really anxious wow it's a long time We'll get through it.

12:04I hope you get through it. Mine is broken up somewhat. I kind of have breaks in between. I'm actually going to see Ray perform at the O2 before I head back to Paris to get back on the circuit. Wow. Yeah, I'm excited. The Run Through will be back with Sarah Pidgeon.

12:31Whenever I'm looking for things with eBay Authenticity Guarantee, it often ends up being sneakers. I'm not necessarily a sneakerhead, but there are specific sneakers that I may have like fallen in love with and have been discontinued. And it's really nice to find them on eBay. And so it'll be just like a pair of platform Converse loafers. It will be a pair of Vans white slippers with like a very specific low toe. And so it's great with eBay to just be like, this is a real thing. It's in the size that you want. It's in the style that you want. And it's real.

13:08All right, Sarah, I want to hear what you're wearing. I am wearing Colleen Allen. This beautiful military, soft military jacket. And I thought these were feathers at first, but it's this like amazing, I think it's silk that's just sort of frayed of the color as well. No, she actually uses a lot of lining fabric as like a main fabric. And I think it's such a beautiful sort of fragile texture to work with. Her new collection is so beautiful with all the draping. I love it. And I also loved her like bustle bags. Yes. She had these velvet pouches that basically tied around as like a fanny pack, a velvet fanny pack, but also doubled as a bustle.

13:48And they were really fabulous. I think you can also, it's, there is something there that you can throw over your shoulder. And that beautiful purple. Oh, I love. Her colors are always, she had the purple and persimmon this year, and they were like just the perfect shade of purple and orange. I've been trying to get my hands on one of her fleece coats. That's sort of similar to this style, but with the grommets or the hook and eyes. Yeah. Just, I said perfect for every season, but I mean, I would still wear it. If I got it, I would still wear it in summer, even though it's fleece. I know. People, they really, it does work for anything.

14:21Like I've seen people sort of go out to the bodega in it or wear it to like a fashion week dinner. It's like, yeah, very versatile. We're very into like fancy performance wear right now. Well, I feel like I've been seeing this online of the, I guess it's not utility, but clothing that can be worn in many different ways and many different places. Yeah. And I've been trying to do that more of wearing my fancy things. Yeah. I mean, I have new hair. Yeah. And things look very different on me than they did with my brown hair. Oh, that's interesting. Do you change the color palette you're wearing based on your new blonde hair?

15:03I've just noticed that the colors that I felt like really worked, or I guess maybe it's more the colors that didn't work on me as well, work on me now with a blonde. I wear a lot of black I wear a lot of white I wear a lot of maybe blue which looks good with blonde hair but I think it just it feels like a different vibe when I wear the clothes because of I guess the lightness but I mean I was getting dressed for six months on the show and then I would sleep for my weekends so I wasn't really dressing myself so new year new year new gym new year trying to dress myself it's a lot of pressure But we're in the year of the horse now.

15:45That's so true. What have you inherited from Carolyn Bessette's style? Do you think you've, like, sort of internalized any of her signatures? In the last three weeks, I've seen women on our team, like, dressing more like her. Like, I do think it's such a, in some ways, replicable kind of style. 100%. And I think that's why she's remained such an intense style icon for people. Completely agree. I mean, I think everyone has a pair of jeans. Everyone has a black turtleneck. Everyone has a button-down. She had some amazing coats. And I think she wore her clothes a lot. Yes. But I guess if something that remained—her clothes were very well tailored.

16:33They were always in great condition. Even with her Levi's, there was a patch on where the hole was. I don't know if she bought them like that or if she took them to get mended. but I think the thing that strikes me about Carolyn is that you really see her first despite wearing very architectural pieces like a lot of Yoji you see her face and her aura immediately the clothes don't wear her exactly and I think that has to do with the person that she was and her sense of energy but I think she really she waited to find pieces I don't think she was quick on the trend cycle. I mean, the trend cycle is so different than it was in the 90s.

17:15But I think she was very patient with finding the clothes that worked for her. So I guess tailoring and, I don't know, like letting yourself shine first. I mean, you can do a—she wore a lot of jeans and a lot of black tops and white tops and really good jackets. And, you know, she's all over Pinterest and Instagram and is still so inspirational to people. It's amazing. I mean, 25-year-old's in her office, and I'm like, you weren't alive. It's, I mean, yeah, it's been 30 years, and she's, her style is so enduring. It was incredible to wear some of her clothing. I loved that you, the amazing feathered Chanel outfit that you wore to the premiere.

18:06Oh, I felt so fabulous. Oh, it was so special. It was awesome. You told Christian that you saw that look at the show, took a picture of it, and sent it to Emma, who is your stylist and a beloved former Vogue alumna. What's that process like when you see something that you love? How did you know that was going to be something that made sense? I don't know. I think there was this—I think there's a question nowadays when you're dressing for press of, like, do you method dress? Do you not? And I think I was so lucky in being able to wear so many amazing outfits of Carolin's and feel so transformed by that.

18:43And I think with the premiere, it just felt like such a celebration and such hard work. And that outfit is, like, is so fun. Yeah. And the sense of, like, play and joy. So I think that felt right. And I remember, I mean, not that I'm like constantly at fashion shows, but every photo I take, I think like I've got the shot and then I look back at them and it's just like this blur of color. But I took that and I was like, I know this is kind of wild, but I love this outfit. And it had pants on with it. and yeah I think I was just really excited to feel wearing something that felt um fun and playful which also Carolyn was fun and playful in her clothing despite you know also being known for minimalism um and it had pants yeah so we love a pant we love a pocket we love a pant we love a pocket.

19:40It had feathers. Some of them fell off and now I have a few feathers. Like a hazelnut brittle? 100%. They're like, if someone wants to bring me back to life, they'll use that as the thing to put in the pot. But yeah, I think it was kind of a no-brainer. And the beautiful beading. Oh, gorgeous beading. I feel like I'm most impressed with Carolyn's suaveness or coyness. Like she's such, she's so good at courts, courtship. Have you like learned anything from her in terms of how to be cool? Oh God. I mean, I hope. I'm not sure. I feel like she was so one of a kind in that way. And I think - Do you give your number out if someone asks or are you like her?

20:26They could be a serial killer for all I know. No, I guess I think with Carolyn in this show I mean she is so effortlessly cool but I think and as we go through this series it's because she has this like subconscious knowing that her life will change dramatically if she pursues this connection with John and I think that partnered with how incredibly good she was at reading people, connecting with people, I think it just made for this, you know, just great energy that I hope we all have when trying to court someone. It's very impressive. Yeah. She really— I'm certainly not that cool. I'm not even close.

21:18Speaking of courtship, you went to the Kate Show on Valentine's Day. I did. It was such a fun way to spend Valentine's. It was awesome. You were in a very Carol and Bissette coat. I know. I do. I feel like there were a lot of leopard coats this fashion week. It was a big trend for people. I'm into it. I was able to keep – that was one of the things that I got from set. Ooh. What was it? We made it. We ended up going with something else, and I actually don't even know if it made it into the show. It was just for sort of one shot. But it was a pony-haired leopard print coat trying to replicate one of the coats that Carolyn had worn.

21:55the coats in the show I keep touching this the coats in the show are amazing they're incredible and her closet the red Valentino and the green the leopard what else I love her fleeces that she would wear sometimes it's not necessarily a coat but some leather Calvin Klein she looked great all the time she really did but I'm glad I got to absorb that piece of clothing What about her clothes did you end up actually wearing? Because I know you guys saw some pieces that belonged to her. I'm not sure if they were her exact, if she, her replicated. Well, they were, like, it was the Yoji skirt and the Yoji top from that same collection.

22:42I see. The same piece, but I don't know if we were ever able to authenticate that she herself wore it. Got it. But those, especially the EOG, I found it transformed me so much. He's spoken about his collections as being like a sense of armor for women. And I think that made so much sense whether or not Carolyn was aware of that. Apparently she would just buy a lot of stuff off the rack. Interesting. She was friends with all of these, everybody in the shops. She started as a salesperson, so she knew what she was doing. Exactly. The Run-Through will be back with Sarah Pidgeon.

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24:02We obviously saw how intense people's reaction was when the test shots came out earlier this summer. when you you said that then you got more involved in what the sort of physical what carolyn was going to look like in terms of the clothing hair etc what was your involvement in that process i think it just sort of recalibrated everyone's understanding of the attention to detail that was necessary yeah and rudy mance came in our costume designer so incredible sourced a lot of these vintage pieces um the hair was a big transformation and I think I just I felt um more comfortable with uh with voicing my opinion I guess um not that I wasn't able to before um but yeah I think I I think we all understood the importance and I think um I was not doing myself for the show or carolyn any favors by like not um not collaborating with all these incredible artists that were around us um you know i think sometimes it's quite uncomfortable to speak your mind and like i'm i've been doing this for a little bit but it this certainly felt like a new sense of responsibility um not only playing a real person but just sort of it's kind of me and paul in in a lot of this show at the beginning um And also figuring out how Carolyn dressed it.

25:38I think some of the most difficult costuming was at the beginning of her life because there's so few photographs of that time. And just being in conversation with Rudy and Barry Lee Moe who designed the hair for the show. So, like, how do we do subtle nods to the Carolyn that we know very well while, like, taking these photos and video evidence from that time that we know? Like, how can we sort of thread this needle? So I think that was really where I started feeling, like, it wasn't difficult to speak my mind because of what anyone was doing. Right. It was because it was just uncomfortable for me.

26:13I'm, like, so Midwestern. But that's changed. Will you stay blonde? I think I'm going to. It's fab. For a while. I think it's really working. It's just so much work. I know. I mean, it's a very little work. Like, I just sit in a chair. Yeah, but it's a—you got to be attentive. You have to be on top of it. Yeah. Yeah. Carrie Hill, who does my color, and Alex Pardo, who does the extensions, he—they just completely brought Carol into life by the work of Barry Limo. It was wild seeing myself with a different color hair. I'd never really done that before. And now I see pictures of myself with brunette, as a brunette.

26:57And I'm like, who is that? Who is that? I mean, she just looks like a different person. Were there any specific mannerisms that you really focused on for Carolyn? And are there any that you have stayed with you? She had better posture than I did. so trying to work on that she spoke with her hands a lot I think maybe I'm starting to speak with my hands now I'm like really conscious of speaking with my hands but she gesticulated ran her fingers through her hair a lot yeah her eyes she bites her lip a lot in the show in the show yeah I guess that was sort of you know she was just thinking I probably should stop doing that I was kind of trying to focus on keeping my mouth open at times because there's a lot of photos of like her kind of open face to the world her big eyes but just thinking about her as a dancer and like knowing how clothes look on a body and her clothes even in motion always look so good yeah so I was really focused on my eyes and I was thinking about you know taking all this information from from these books and interviews that I sort of gathered.

28:17And he talked about her as a young woman, like just bounding down the streets of New York. Yeah. And that resonated with me. I feel like any New York, not that I'm a New Yorker, I'm from Michigan and I've only been here a few years, but if you live in New York, you're really trying to move. Yeah. You're like trying to make the next train. You know how to weave through the tourists. And then thinking about how you take this woman with so much anonymity and freedom in the city, this exciting job, a great group of friends, and then suddenly have the public eye sort of enclose on you and how that changes the body.

28:53And you can see that, I think, in her clothes as well. While she was always into tailoring, I think that, like the Yamamoto, it became more structural. And, you know, there's photos of her, I think, at Indochine in, like, a slip dress. And that wasn't as much. There's a few, actually, I think in her 30s, she's on a phone. She's on a phone booth with her glasses on. She always had tons of stuff. She's messy. I noticed that. She's like, you know, there's those TikToks of girls holding shit. She's sort of an original. Or like Ben Affleck with like the six Dunkin' Donuts. Yeah. Yeah, she stuffed her purses.

29:32Yeah. She always, there's this photo of her. She looks so fab. I think she was actually she was trying to get into the car as quickly as possible because there's so many paparazzi outside of her house. But she's got this big roll of wrapping paper in her hand and like two bags and something else. But I think that's also sort of city living. But yeah, her she they said she had they called her just like Mount Cashmere because she just had. Oh, my God. like sweater after sweater after sweater after sweater after sweater. She had very, I think her apartment was quite bare and messy. Wow. But she strikes me as the type of person where like it might be totally chaotic in there, but she knows where everything is.