Madonna, Marni, and Prada | Best of Milan Fashion Week

0:28This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. at Bali. We also agreed that one particular show stood out as the show of the season for us. So stay tuned to hear what really blew us away in Milan and what to expect in Paris. Here's my conversation with Tiziana. Ciao, Tiziana. Welcome to the show. Hi, Nicole. How are you? It feels very strange to have been sitting next to you all week and then suddenly here we are on Zoom, but I'm already in Paris and you are in Milan until tomorrow, right? Yes, yes, yes. Well, as you know, we are here to talk about Milan Fashion Week. You are a Milan native, and the storyline seemed to be designers on the hunt for joy.

1:14And we heard a lot of people talking about that from Donatella Versace to Mathieu Blasie at Bottega Veneta last night. And I want to know, did you feel it? Did you feel the joy during Milan Fashion Week? Well, joy, I don't know. I was always tired. Anyway, no, no. Yes, I think that overall it was a positive season because I think that designers respond to what's going on around us, knowing that, you know, everyone is distracted from what's happening. And fashion somehow can feel irrelevant in this moment. So they really wanted to push creativity and the spirit of positivity. I mean, every designers I have spoken to, from Francesco Risto to Simone Bellotti, even Lorenzo Serafini at Philosophy comes to mind, they really wanted to address the soothing power of beauty.

2:27That was a concern they had. And so I think that they were really involved in trying to send out a positive message. And I think they succeeded. So you've mentioned Francesco's name. Francesco, for people who are listening, is the creative director of Marni, where he's been for almost 10 years. Yeah, you put it, nine years in your piece. You also said that it was a collection. It was one of his finest yet. Why did you think so? Well, I think that overall designers need time. You know, they mature, they grow, they are more experienced as time passes. And so their message is more focused, is more clean, is more easy in a way, you know.

3:19And I think that for Francesco, this season, it was particularly true. He's a very talkative designer and sometimes is a true artist. And sometimes is a visionary, definitely, which is something that not all designers are. And speak a little bit about the collection. I was really struck by the fact that he made all of these incredible silhouettes with cotton, right? It was in fashion we like to call cotton a humble material because it's readily available. It's not luxurious. And yet it was such a spectacular show. Yes. And I think that, I mean, what he said to me was that he chose cotton just because of that, because he wanted his message to be very direct, very clean, very clear.

4:11But, you know, being clear for Francesco entails always some kind of whimsy, some kind of also, you know, extra creativity. And so he really used cotton in the most original way, I should say. I've never seen a collection like this where cotton is the only fiber, the only yarn you use. So Francesca is a radical, and Marnie is a radical brand in a way. What did he tell you about the makeup? I really encourage people to go look at the pictures of Marnie, especially Asiel's backstage photos, because she has these beautiful pictures of the makeup. It was so exaggerated with these penciled-in brows, sort of like Marlena Dietrich on acid and eye shadow, and then these extraordinary hats, which were also cotton, or were those paper?

5:09Or am I getting the stories wrong? No, it was cotton. I thought it was paper, but it was cotton. It was extraordinary. And there was one hat which really looked like a crazy Audrey Hepburn. You know, remember the big black hat? And My Fair Lady, yes. Yes. And also the makeup added. Because if you look at the clothes, the shapes were kind of simple in a way. They were kind of straightforward, a little oversized, but not overworked from a design point of view. So the makeup and the hats, they just added this extraordinary whimsy, you know. And I think it was really one of his best shows so far and very transporting.

6:00Well, I will describe it as the show of the season for me so far. We have eight days of Paris shows. But to me, that was really, really a remarkable 20 minutes that we got to spend together. Moving on, we also saw Prada, which is typically one of the biggest shows of the season. together, Mucha Prada and Raf Simons are the most watched, the most respected designers in the industry. And this season, they said they wanted to do something quite different than what they usually do. Typically, when you go to a Prada show, you get the message. They work on several themes. And this season, it was all individual looks.

6:45Why did they decide to do that? And what do you think they were trying to tell us? Prada has always been very individual in her way of addressing fashion. You know, she's, I mean, one of the kind. She has always been very directional, even if it comes really natural to her. That's the way she is. You know, she's the person who really wear the clothes she makes, you know, so she doesn't design for anybody else. And they rehashed old classics, old best-offs, old Miuccia, Miuccia's best-offs in a way that felt also completely new because, you know, they have this ability to transform what they have, what Miuccia has done before, but she redid it and they redid it in a way that felt rather new.

7:48You know, it was a statement in any case, I think, because that's what they do. You know, they don't follow, they just lead, you know. Right. I liked what they were saying backstage, which was they weren't problematizing necessarily, but they were calling to our attention this idea that online, the amount of time we're all spending on social media, we're seeing what the algorithms want us to see. And that means that we're seeing things that other people have already liked, or things that look like things that we've already liked, and things your vision online sort of starts to narrow. And to me, this was a collection with many different ideas is sort of designed to open up our vision again.

8:37Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. But it's something that it's in the line of what they have already done in the past, you know, because Miuccia has opened our eyes to fashion in so many ways, you know. You were very excited after the show and you said you thought it was so chic and so Miuccia. So I want to know what piece would you like to buy from this new collection? Well, it's difficult because, you know, So fashion is becoming so expensive that I don't know if I can afford it anymore. I kind of like the, not that I will buy it, but you know, the conic silver skirt with the metallic. The portholes?

9:21Yes. I would not have called that one. Wow. I'm not going to buy it, of course, but I really like that idea. You know, it was a really stunning piece. And you're right. I think that will be the hit that we'll be seeing a lot of that in February at the shows. And we'll have to see how women deal with having skirt with a lot of holes in it, how they stay warm. Okay, moving on to another very big name on the Milan schedule, Gucci. This was Sabato de Sarno's third women's collection, save the resort show he did in London. And there's a lot of pressure riding on him. His reviews have been pretty mixed up until now.

10:05So tell me how you think he did and what the vibe was like at his show. Well, I think that Sabato is a great technician. I think he's very consistent in terms of his experience as a tailor. He has been working, as you know, at Valentino with Pierpaolo for many years, and he was the head designer there. So Sabato is not conceptual. He's not a conceptual designer. He's not a visionary. But he's a consistent, solid tailor and technician. So I think that this collection was a little bit softer than his previous outings. I liked those jersey dresses, the draped jersey dresses. There was a black one and a few other colors.

10:58And those, he told me, were actually riffs on the famous white jersey dresses that Tom Ford designed for Gucci in the 90s, which, of course, were riffs on Halston dresses from the 1970s. And his way of changing it up, I thought was really clever, was to create these bamboo-shaped collar necklaces and arm cuffs. And he draped the dresses from the collar necklaces. And I thought those were, as you said, easy, but really chic.

11:35Okay, we're going to take a quick break. More on Milan Fashion Week after the break.

11:53You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

12:28And we're back. Segwaying to another Gucci story is Simone Bellotti, who is a former designer at Gucci. under Alessandro Michele, who has landed this Bali job and really shaken things up. People are crazy about him. So it was my first Bali show. And I agree with you. I think he's a real star in the making. Tell me what you thought of this show. Well, I really liked it because, you know, I've been following Simone since his first show at Bali. And I didn't know him before. But he has, I mean, he's not a young designer, he's 47. So I asked him about his trajectory. And he told me that his first job was in Antwerp at Van der Wurst.

13:20Remember? A.F. Van der Wurst. Yes. So he has like a kind of Nordic sensibility to begin with. That's why he's well suited to Bali because Bali is a Swiss brand. They had no ready to wear before. It's a brand known based in Lugano in Switzerland. And they are basically a shoe company, very traditional, very well made. They have an amazing archive of shoes, classic shoes, but also slightly twisted shapes. So it's an interesting brand. And what Simone is doing there is delving into Swiss culture in a way that's revealing another side of the stereotype, you know, because we know Switzerland as because of the watches, because of the precision, because of the chocolate, because of the cows in the fields and the mountains and Moritz and all this kind of stuff.

14:25But Switzerland has a very interesting subculture and underground culture that Simone is trying to unearth and put into his collection, which, if you look closely, is really a collection between rationality and whimsy, between, you know, what's logic and clean and what's absolutely absurd or bizarre. So there's a whole set of references that he's trying to blend into what he's doing. And it's very, very interesting. Especially because Bali is this little brand that nobody has really paid much mind to, even though it has an extraordinary history. And they've tried over the years to put in creative directors and, you know, nothing has ever really stuck.

15:21And now you have this guy, Simone, who is really punching above Bally's weight. You know, he is getting the kind of attention that, you know, in all likelihood will get him a bigger job at a bigger brand. But for the moment, everybody wants to go to Bally shows and everybody wants to wear those Bally clothes. Especially for me, those very cool jeans that had that cool hem, which was slightly higher in the front than in the back. And it was a surprise for me. I'm glad I finally went. Another brand who I think punch above their weight is Sune, who you've been reviewing for Vogue Runway for several years now.

16:03They were celebrating their 10th anniversary and they did so with a very unusual by fashion standards cast, right? Yes, because the cast was made with only 70 and 80 years old people. The chicest 70 and 80 year olds around. Yes, but, you know, they were their friends. They were artists from Berlin, from Los Angeles, from Milan, from, you know, the suburbs. You know, it was like a really a celebration of their community because, you know, they're very community driven. I think that it was about age, how, you know, the system is getting old, how we are getting old, how growing is not always something that for a brand is suitable.

17:01That's what they say to me afterwards, you know. They don't want to grow, grow like growing as a company. Milan, of course, is a city of fashion giants whose names are known around the world. We've already talked about some Gucci, Prada, for example. I think since the pandemic, though, there is a new generation of designers who don't sort of model their business off of these billion-dollar brands. They're happier to do something more human-sized. And I'll be interested to see the next five years, as they do grow, inevitably, how they sort of reconcile that urge. Right now, in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere.

17:52This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe. It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

18:27So we cannot not talk about Madonna. There was a Madonna sighting at Milan Fashion Week. She was the guest of honor at Dolce & Gabbana because their show was very much an ode to her 1990s style. And I watched you take a video. We were all taking video as she walked in. Tell us what that moment was like. Well, you know, I was like, where is she? because I didn't see her. She was like completely veiled in that black Madonna, black Madonna. It was great. Also because they have been friends for so long, you know, those two, her and Stefano and Domenico. They really, really, I think there's a real connection between them.

19:13You know, it's not just that the style and blah, blah, blah. But I think that, you know, Madonna is basically very dramatic. She's basically, she's very Italian in a way. And she has this kind of drama thing, you know, that comes out as one of her most intense qualities. I think, you know, they relate very, they connect on that. And that's why they have been working together for all these years. And I think that she has a real aura, you know. I think she's the best of them all. I mean, she was there before anybody else. She's like, I don't know, she's the mothership. Yes. And the era that they were conjuring, that early 90s, I mean, she was my icon.

20:02I was so obsessed. I was Madonna obsessed in the late 80s and early 90s. So Alessandro Michele, the former creative director of Gucci, he has his runway debut at Valentino this week, which is the most anticipated show of the season for sure. What are you expecting to see there? Well, I expect to see something that relates to the archives of Valentino Garavani in the beginning, you know, because what Alessandro likes is... He likes, he loves, you know, he's a very cultivated designer. He's very articulate. And so for him, having the opportunity of like immerse himself in the Valentino archives, I think it was like manna from heaven, you know.

21:09And I think that he will address that moment in time when Valentino Garavani was very feminine, very opulent, very Roman, you know, exquisite femininity, beautiful craft, glamour, but also extreme upper crust chic. We shall see. Shall see. I can't wait. What else are you looking forward to in Paris? Well, you know, Paris is always so very, very varied and inspiring. Well, I always go, I always like to see the Japanese designers. This is one of the highlights of my week, like the Calm or Junior or Noir. I really like what they do. And let's see Chanel, which is another big question mark. That will be the subject of the week.

22:05who is getting that job. The rumors have been hot and heavy for months now, right? I don't know what to expect. And what do you think about Milan? Do you think it was a good season or it was like a so-and-so season? What do you think? No, I think it was a very strong week. Starting with the beautiful Milanese weather, we had pure sun. But I think we spent the summer talking a lot about the challenges that fashion is facing, the closing of matches and how difficult that was for young and emerging designers in London especially, but around the world, the way that department stores are shifting and changing.

22:52And I guess the retail landscape is quite hard. Business is quite hard. It's the thing I kept hearing over and over again this summer. But I don't feel like designers in Milan sort of retreated. If anything, I think they did the exact opposite. I think they really put their strongest foot forward and we saw a lot of, we saw risk taking. How about that Missoni guy who we didn't talk about who completely, completely surprised everyone with a really conceptual avant-garde collection, right? I mean, that is not what he had done for the last two seasons. not at all but it was absolutely unexpected because you know i was like what is that he probably wanted to just express this creativity with you know breaking free and say okay you know what i do what i want good for him it proved that you know he has the guts well here's to Lots more designers with guts in Paris.

23:55I'm looking forward to seeing you. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. Thank you, Nicole. See you tomorrow. Ciao.

24:09And that's it for the show. See you tomorrow with more Fashion Week coverage.

24:20The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Joanna Solitaroff. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of Global Audio.

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