Mariska Hargitay on Uncovering The Real Story Behind Her Mother, Jayne Mansfield

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel, and today I'm joined by my colleague Margot Mbuba. Do you want to introduce yourself, madam? Sure. Hi, everybody. I'm Margo. I'm Vogue's senior beauty and wellness editor. And today we had the amazing pleasure of chatting with Mariska Hargitay, who you probably know as Detective Olivia Benson from Law & Order SVU. She is also, in addition to being a mother of three, an incredible philanthropist, and a wonderful woman, She is daughter of one of the most iconic women of 1950s Hollywood, Jane Mansfield. And I didn't realize that Margot is a longtime Jane Mansfield fan.

0:46Yes, she has been on my Pinterest board for as long as I've been Pinteresting. I think that she has really incredible style. I've always loved her in leopard print. She has always had this beautiful, like, white, white blonde hair. And I love pinup style, like, with a twist, which she's always been doing. And for those of you that did not read my story about the return of the bullet bra, she is one of my bullet bra icons. She is a bullet bra icon. It's true. I'm really excited that Mariska made this film about her mother. It's really beautiful. I watched it. Oh, my God. Margo was slacking me throughout watching it.

1:23I'm sobbing. I'm sobbing. It's really so beautiful. It's called My Mom Jane. And I think that for those of you who know who Jane is, you probably have some preconceived notions about your idea of her. And I think you're going to learn a lot of surprising things about who she really was. And I think that Mariska learned a lot about who her mother was, which we get into a lot in our conversations. Really beautiful. I do love in a documentary when the filmmaker seems to be learning with the audience. And I feel like this film, you really felt like you were on that journey with Mariska. Yeah, it was really inspiring.

2:00I love to learn about my family and like the history. And I feel like this sort of like reengaged with the idea that I wanted to get back into doing The Family Tree. Oh, wow. Not that I have anything this like fabulous in my family tree, but I just want to know what's up. No bullet bras in the Ambuba family tree? Oh, definitely not. We were so happy that we could meet with Mariska in the studio a day before her film was set to release on HBO Max. And without further ado, here is our conversation.

2:31Mariska, we are so excited to have you here. We both watched your documentary this week. Margo was slacking me. I'm sobbing. I was like, all right, too much. Many times, many cries. But I've been hearing about your documentary for several months because my mom saw it a few months ago and then forgot she saw it and then called me when she went to the premiere and said, I saw Mariska's documentary. It's amazing. I was like, it's still amazing. That's actually you can't get a better endorsement, right? You can't get a better. We are recording this the day before the film comes out. Are you worried about any sort of postpartum after this project's done?

3:05That's a great question. And I'm absolutely not. I am so excited and it's been such an incredibly full and cathartic experience for me and surpassed sort of my wildest dreams in every way and has changed me as a person. And so for me now, I feel like I have so much more internal space and more internal creative space that I got to tell the story. I'm curious. You come from a really big family. You have a lot of siblings. Have you always been the family historian? Are you always the one who – because you're also one of the youngest. Yeah. I wouldn't say I was the family – I mean, I would say I'm the family historian.

3:53Now you are. You're the family expert. But I wasn't. No, that was not at all my role in the family. I think that I've always been a deeply curious person and somebody who is a truth seeker and a digger. And I think some of my siblings before this documentary were like, okay, that happened. Let's move on. And weren't very interested in reliving or doing a deep dive on the past. But it was really beautiful because when I flew to L.A. to talk to them and, you know, ask them to be a part of it and ask them really for their blessing, it was extraordinary because they all voiced their hesitance and their reticence and going, oh.

4:38And then by the end of our meeting, they said, we're on board and we trust you and we trust you with the story. My five-year-old is very into, as many five-year-olds are, construction. And his favorite thing is an excavator. And when I watched this, I was like, you are, it's an excavation. It really is almost like a paleontology. You were really working that. That's so beautiful. And the way I described it, I love that you're saying that because I was calling it for a long time an archaeological dig. Yes. I actually use those words. That's what it felt like. Completely. Because I didn't know. And I said, OK, guys, we're doing this.

5:21Let's open it up. Couldn't believe you were cracking open these boxes, like literally with a crowbar that you said, I think, hadn't been open since 1969. Yeah. It's Olivia Benson's biggest case. Truly. Truer words were never spoken. So you talked about how this was like a labor of love and longing. And you just told us about this emotional space that's really opened up for you. I'm curious how taking this on both the starring in it and directing it, like you did everything really for this project. How did that help you emotionally, I guess, really take control of the story? And how did that – because I feel like you had to have a lot of trust in yourself probably also.

5:59Because you go into this story talking about how for a long time like you had sort of been like ashamed of. Yeah. I had a very, very complex relationship with my mother my entire childhood. And it brought me a lot of pain and shame, to be honest. And, you know, I just wanted a normal mom. I just wanted somebody who, like, baked cookies and made my lunches and, you know, wore normal clothes. And this idea of my mother running around in a bikini and heels was just more than I could handle. And not that I was ever there when she did that, but the photos. It was just too much. And so, first of all, thank you for that.

6:43But I also assembled an amazing team. This is my second documentary. And I did it with my producer, Trish Adlesic, that I knew from SVU. So we had a long relationship and history there. Once you assemble a team like that, such incredibly soulful people, and it was a little bit like speed dating and then entering a marriage. Because if you make something like this, which is such an excavation and such an unzip, it's like you're sharing a soul. It's so intimate. And yes, it was a lot to take on, but I was ready. What made this the moment you were ready? Was there a turning point where you decided, I can do this now?

7:29There were several. You know, there were several moments I realized that have been leading up to this. But it was during the pandemic when I had the time and space to start going through some things that I hadn't had a chance to before. And I started, I found this box of fan letters that were all related to my mom. and it was so emotional for me that I would just put it and go, I can't deal with this now. And I also thought reading something like that required time and space and energy to respond and write a letter. And so I put it in a box and I was like, I can't deal with this because, you know, SVU is pretty rigorous and I was in that marathon.

8:11But I had the time and space during the pandemic. And so as I started reading them, the beauty that came out of them, People sharing stories with me about my mom. And actually, it felt like giving me a piece back of this person that I was longing to know. So that was the impetus. And one of them was this incredible woman who said that she played the violin with my mom for so many years. And she used to go over to my mom's house in Dallas, Texas, and sit in her driveway and listen to her practice. Wow. And I was so moved by that. I was so moved by this like artistic connection and then started looking at the photos of her playing the violin and seeing these private moments.

9:00You know, so much of my mom's life was this pose, this sex symbol, this thing playing into this role. And I was like, I'm not interested in that. I want to know who's behind it. And so as I started seeing like snapshots or photos, I mean, obviously this happened in a beautiful way during the making of the film and scouring the archival footage was, you know, the greatest gift. But everything started to change. And it's a funny story. You'll laugh. I'm a huge Hamilton. I'm obsessed with it. Hamilton file, we'll say. I've seen it 27 times. And so I wanted to. Yeah, no. That's a lot. I've never heard of 27.

9:40No, no. I win. Happy 10th anniversary to you then. Thank you. Thank you. Somebody surely will send me flowers. But anyway, I was at a party because somebody wanted to introduce me to Ron Chernow. And I went there and he said, have you ever thought about doing a documentary about your mom? And I said, no, Ron, I couldn't. I mean, everyone's dead. And he looked at me and said, I could help you with that. Oh, my God. That's an amazing story. It's so great. It was so funny. I didn't realize who I was talking to. Oh, that's hysterical. You know, dead presidents and Hamilton. So it was little moments over the years where there was a crack where I started going, ah, give a shot.

10:25And what seemed so impossible started to feel within my grasp. And so during the pandemic is when I called Nancy Abraham at HBO and I said, I think I'm ready. Was that at the same time you threw your mom a birthday party? Yes. What did your kids think about that? They thought it was the coolest thing, and it was so fun, and they loved it. I mean, they all wrote her cards, and we decorated the table with—you'll see it in the movie. I did. Oh, okay. So we decorated the table and— And the hearts. All the hearts and everything. So it was this really beautiful ceremony that we had that was so joyful.

11:07also celebrating and in remembrance of somebody. So even for them, it started to become a fun, beautiful thing. Had they asked questions about her in the past? Are they curious about her? Well, my littles were too young at the time. You saw how teeny they were. But my son a little bit, we would talk about it, but I would show him things because he also looks so much like her. August looks exactly like her. It was just a very beautiful kind of surprising, sacred moment. I think it's really nice also as someone who has lost parents, sometimes we celebrate or like we talk about their heavenly birthday or the day they died.

11:48And I think it's really beautiful that you celebrated her actual birthday. So it was really a day of true celebration, not a lot of the time for people that have passed away. Like we talk about the day they died as like a momentous day. But you were taking like a true day of joy and making it simply that. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I'm curious about through this process if there was something that you learned about your mom that you were like, wow, I can't wait to tell my kids that. I learned so much about her. And that was the gift for me is because I think that she was one-dimensional to me.

12:22And I didn't really know anything about her. and I didn't like the fake voice, the high register, this role she was playing, this put-on persona that felt as a kid so inauthentic. And so it made me feel so disconnected from her. And, you know, I remember as a kid going, I really struggle with people with high voices that are not on their voice because I was like, I can't trust you. Like, drop it down, right? Because we can all talk up here, but that's dissociating in a way. It's armor in a way. It completely is armor. So it was very, as I say in the film, one of the things that was so meaningful to me was to hear her real voice, to hear those lower registers and go, ah, there you are, there you are.

13:13And that longing that I'd had for so long of wanting a mom, of wanting somebody to look like, somebody to be like, somebody that I am from, all of a sudden I went, oh, I see you. And I started to see similarities between us. And that was so beautiful. But again, it was the moments of candor. It was the moments of a candid shot or between moments of performance and just her sitting there or her making a joke or laughing that I started to see this three-dimensional person. So this, you know, the flat Stanley turned into this beautiful three-dimensional woman that I was in awe of. For me, when my mom got sick, my mom died of stage four colon cancer when I was in college.

14:03But it took me dropping out of school and taking care of her to sort of have that similar relationship that you had where I didn't really have a very good relationship with my mom until I dropped out and took care of her. And then seeing you grow into something that was sort of mirrored in my own experience was really helpful, actually, I feel like in my grief process, because grief can still be happening, even though it's been like 15 years since she passed away. So I appreciate you really like sharing that and being so vulnerable about sharing how this exploration really changed the way you felt about your mom.

14:37Because I think it's hard to admit when you don't feel positively about someone who passed away. I struggled with it my whole life. Yeah. I so get that. It can be kind of embarrassing, and I've always felt really bad about feeling that way. And then seeing you admit that felt really good, and it helped me a lot. Well, thank you for saying that. And if I may, it's worse than embarrassing. It's internally painful, right? Especially with everything that is put on mother. Mother. And when you feel like you don't have that, you also say, what kind of mother will I be? what kind of mirror will I be and the other thing about this film is I have always sort of preached and learned very young at a young age that I think that vulnerability is our superpower and you know a lot of women are like I don't want to cry and I'm like I do I'll cry right now I don't give a shit because that's part of me and part of this film too has been about my own integration and my own making peace and reckoning and integrating with all the different parts of ourselves.

15:51So my vulnerability is such a huge part of me. Like, I play this badass on TV, and I am super strong, and I know it, but I'm a lot of things, and I'm not one thing. And so that's been the beauty is to say, I recognize pain. I had so much trauma going up. I was so at an identity crisis. I was so, I felt so alone, untethered, all those things. And I went through this movie and I had the tolerance to go, don't know what I'm going to find, super painful. And on the other side was glorious healing and integration.

16:34The Run-Through will be back in just a moment.

16:39Thank you.

17:16And we're back. I have always been a huge fan of your mother's because, one, I knew about her for a long time because I really have long admired the way she dresses. I wear only vintage clothing, including a full— Margot just wrote an important piece about the return of the bullet bra. I've been wearing bullet bras for a really long time. Which I kept thinking about in the movie. Yes. This is fantastic. Yes. And so she's been on so many of my mood boards, but also I knew about the fact that she played the violin. And for me, I come from third wave feminism and she's always been sort of a third wave icon where you can have the way that you look and still be intelligent and be smart and be a mother and be all of these things.

18:01And it's the world that's the problem, not you. And I think that— Beautiful. So I've always really admired her. But I'm curious what it was like to hunt down her objects because something that you talked about was that you guys didn't have a lot of her physical things. Yeah. Like, what was it like to hunt down her clothing? I thought that beautiful jacket that you tried on. I just got chills on my leg because— Yeah, I mean, I love to imagine. Because Fargo only wears vintage. I love that, though. It's so beautiful. I love to imagine the people and the things they did and the clothing that I wore.

18:28And so for you, what's that like? It's also, if I may, it's so meaningful to hear that about her, especially about her being a style icon. Because there were so many times, like in the 90s, when I would see Madonna and go, that reminds me of my mom. Or, you know, recently I think there was a Sabrina Carpenter Vogue cover. And I was like, ah. And Miley Cyrus, who I met recently, who was so incredible and generous because she loved my mom, loved her, and went on and on and on about it. And it was that same thing that you said about being sexy and feminine and all of yourself and being a badass. Yeah.

19:14And two things can be true at once, right? I mean, I did find that scene really shocking when she's talking about her violin. He says, oh, honey, just kiss me instead. Shut up and kiss me. Shut up and kiss me. Who cares? Just kiss me. So disgusting. And everyone, you know, when we had the premiere at Carnegie Hall, the whole audience gasped. Wow. And I was so grateful for this sort of communal response because I remember when I saw it first and I was like, you can't believe that somebody would do that. And she was so gracious and so kind and let it slide. And, you know, now imagine if somebody said that to one of us.

19:54We'd go like this. Are you okay? Did you not take your medication today? I mean, whatever it is, it's so rude and so—it's really just deplorable and disgusting and condescending. And I could go on anyway. Do you think that her career would be different today? Would she be able to do more of what she wants? wanted to. I think she was ahead of her time. Yeah. I totally agree. I was actually thinking about how like society is the problem with a lot of the way that she was portrayed. And it certainly was back then. Hasn't changed that much? It hasn't changed that much, but I do think. And yet there's a there's room now for a different woman's response.

20:36You know, I mean, And I sort of made it my business in my career to say, you don't put me in the box. I decide. Like that was a cognizant thing that I did. But a risk. Yes. But, you know, Chloe, when I was in my 20s, and listen, your mom probably has a million stories. But I remember like walking into ABC to have a general. And the guy goes, oh, I was expecting a blonde. And I'm like, well, sorry to disappoint. And then he told me, he said, what's your real name? And I said, do you think I made that up? Mariska Hargitay? And then he goes, you need to change your name. And then he said, and also you need to get a nose job.

21:21And you know what I said? You get a nose job. Because I think that was so ingrained in me already from what I heard that she endured, what I heard, the way I knew that she was treated. I was like, sweetheart, you're barking up the wrong tree. here. So part of it is like, what is it? It's almost like redemption. Yeah. You're doing it for her in a way. Completely. I love that. Your siblings were an amazing element of the documentary. I imagine that that was a complex process. Did that always feel easy? Were they reluctant to be participating? When I asked them, they were hesitant. But once we started, it was, I'm so in awe of my siblings.

22:04I'm so in love with every single one of them. I'm so grateful for their trust in me, which is like, what else do we want out of our friends and family, right? But their, like, openness and courage to say, like, okay, Marish, I'm in. And we were close before, but this is a new level. And after when I flew to L.A., when I completed the film, it was a rough cut, like a final rough cut. And I flew to L.A. to show them the film. And we all sat together and watched this film. And we were connected, one hour, 45 minutes, holding each other. We started in four separate seats and ended up in two seats.

22:46Wow. My sister and I, Jay Marie, and Mickey and Zoli in the other seat. And we had our arms around each other and just held each other for the entire movie, crying, obviously. And then after the movie was over, you know, because they were so proud of me and they were so happy. And then my sister said, as we were doing a group hug, my sister said, I feel like we are four people with one heart. And that was everything to me. And I remember thinking to myself, if this film never sees the light of day, I've done my job. Yeah. And I couldn't be happier about it. And that was the thing of saying, I think it was very organizing for the family to see the story in sequence.

23:31Yeah. It's just healing to tell your story. Absolutely. Was there any memory that came from an interview with your siblings that was particularly surprising or healing or important, a discovery? Or did you anticipate what most of? I don't know. I think I was so—I don't know if it was a discovery. I just was so in awe. Oh, well, Mickey telling the story killed me. It still kills me when he told the story about seeing the blonde woman. Oh, my God. That was, that wrecked me. That was very hard to hear, especially as a mother. Yeah. Oh, God, I know. That was extraordinarily painful. And just for listeners who haven't seen the film yet, there's a very powerful scene where Maerska's eldest brother is describing after the car crash, a blonde woman is in the car.

24:33He wakes up and the blonde woman turns her head around from the front seat and he thinks it's his mother, but it's not. But that was, again, the extraordinary candor, generosity. and that was the moment for me that kind of, you know, undid me. And, you know, seeing some of the footage was so brutal. The moment. Had you seen all of that before? No. That was the gift of the film, Chloe, is that I hadn't. And the gift of the film as a filmmaker is to have access to that kind of archival. It was insane. Amazing. It was like, here, I've been waiting. Make a movie. I got you. It was waiting there for you.

25:18It was. It truly was. And also the fact that this story has never been told and that I got to tell it, that I got to tell my story is nothing short of a miracle. Well, Zoltan went on my baby list immediately. The moment that he came on the screen and I saw his name, I was like, I love that name. It's beautiful. And then the more that I got to know – I mean, all of your siblings seem incredible. But the more I got to know him, and he's so sensitive and sweet. I think he's the heart of the film. I was like, it was moving up the list. It was moving higher. Okay. Sorry. He's so gorgeous. In the movie, he was so raw and open and trusted me and trusted this process.

25:58And one of the most fulfilling things for me has been that he has said that this has been a very healing process for him. I'm sure for everybody. He said, you helped me deal with so much of my trauma. And I was like. in the documentary you revealed that you were actually originally left at the scene of the crash and when i heard that i mean i screamed out loud i was so shocked when did you first learn about that and i'm curious what that felt like because obviously i'm assuming you don't remember that experience no i don't remember that experience luckily i knew that story i had been told that.

26:40From when you were young? Yeah. I just knew that I knew that one. But I didn't know what to do with it or where to put it. And so I didn't. And so to hear my brother tell it to me as an adult was a very different experience. and again I'm just staggered by his openness and candor and the beauty of his soul tenderness and what he carries inside and you know I think he was so open and again I mean courageous doesn't even it feels like an inaccurate word in a way but what all of us carried from that experience was really hard. Yeah. And I've worked for so many years not to carry it anymore.

27:39The Run-Through will be back in a moment.