Martine Rose Is Breaking The Formula

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Cho Minardi and this week our lovely Chloe is out on a much needed vacation. so I'm taking over with a London focused episode this week I spoke to my friend the lovely and talented Martine Rose Martine had an incredible collection last month and I was so excited to have her back on the show her fashion show was just one of the highlights of the summer for me and just wanted to get her back to talk about where she's at with her brand and just how she's feeling. Her intuition is so great and she's always so plugged into the zeitgeist. So I'm really excited to share that.

0:48But before we hear that interview, I have my colleague Daisy Jones, who is British Vogue's acting news and features editor. But before we discuss what's been happening in London, the big action was actually in Basel this weekend because we were both in Basel. And Daisy, would you like to share why we were both there? Yeah, well, it was the Euros final, which I was really, really excited about the women's Euros final. I had a great time. Did you have a good time? I had an amazing time and I have to say I don't know much about football I mean that's soccer to you guys but I brought my brother with me who is an absolute expert and we were hosted by Nike which was was really great because they brought in all of these these athletes and I I knew who Megan Rapinoe was but there were a lot of new gen football international football stars I didn't know like Sue Carl who's from Australia who's kind of a legend and a legend in the making she's quite young I'm making out like she's like she's young um but it was really I just got so into it and I didn't think I get so emotional and I mean it went to penalty it went to a penalty shootout it was one of the most exciting games I'd seen in a long time I thought Spain played amazingly and obviously was really close.

2:12But it made me understand just how people can get can live and die by this game. Yeah, completely. And for context, like I was never into football before this Euros. So you're the same as me, basically. Yeah, but it sort of happened slowly. And then all at once, throughout the Euros, I felt my obsession building. And then it got, you know, I can never do things in half measures, I have to be like, really obsessed with something or not into it at all. And by the time it got to the England-Sweden game, I'd just fully gone down the rabbit hole of being completely obsessed. And I was up at like 2am on Reddit, like Googling strategy and finding out everything to do with the players, everything.

2:51This doesn't surprise me, guys, because Daisy goes deep on everything. I got full, full tunnel vision. So by the time I ended up in Basel, my obsession had really reached fever pitch at that point. So I was just really, really excited. and I felt like England were going to win even though everyone told me they wouldn't. I know. It was, I mean, let's talk about some of the players. It's got to be Chloe Kelly. I know. Oh my God, everybody loves Chloe Kelly. Yeah. I just love her cockiness. I love her little hop that she does. Tell our audience, what should they know about her? I did notice everybody has a high ponytail.

3:26It's just the look. I know, it's weird, isn't it? I was like, what? Everybody has a high ponytail. Yeah, and I've got face blindness. I have written about that on the site before. Ewan Lin Yeager, OG fashion writer and Vogue editor. What does she also... She has facial blindness. We've been friends for a while, and I remember in the beginning she would never recognise me and always be like, but we've seen each other a million times. Yeah, it's really bad. People think you're being really rude, even though you've met them multiple times, and you don't care. But yeah, it's a problem for me. When I was watching the football to begin with, they've all got blonde ponytails for the most part, so I was like, I'm never going to be able to tell who all these people are.

4:03But obviously as time went on, I started to recognize them more and more. Now I love them all. But yeah, Chloe Kelly is sort of the, she did this excellent penalty against Italy. But she did this little smirk before she did it, almost like to say like, I've got this. And then she does this signature move that's this little hop. And it's so cheeky. And she did it again in Basel. And when I saw her stand up to take the penalty, I was like, we're going to be fine. We're going to win this. And I like seeing on TikTok afterwards, you know, lots of like little girls and little boys are like copying her, her signature move and stuff, which I think is quite fun.

4:45I think for me, it was Hannah Hampton, who's the goalie, goalkeeper. and she kind of went on a deep dive on her and how she got to where she got and the fact that she had an eye condition that made it almost impossible for her to play football as a child. And she's just seemed like the kind of person who's been told no her whole life and has proved everybody wrong. She stepped into the shoes of a very legendary goalkeeper called Mary Earps who I think a lot of people weren't sure whether she was going to be able to hold her own. And she saved the match, literally. I mean, the penalty shootout was one of the most exciting ones I've ever seen.

5:30There was a victory parade that went down the mall and we sent a photographer to capture it because I just thought this is such a big moment for the UK. And it was so lovely looking through the images and seeing, I mean, all of these amazing, like a cross-section of like girls and young women. And there was one picture of a girl on her father's shoulders. And it just made me think like, this is not just like a moment. It's like a bigger movement, I think. And I hope that there's more of this energy to come. I know that all eyes here are on the rugby team because the English rugby women's team are incredible.

6:09and the World Cup's happening, I think, this September. So very excited about that. But I do feel like this is, it feels like there's a bigger shift and I think we're going to be hearing much more and more about these women. I think people are just going to be more and more obsessed with them. So the London Fashion Week calendar dropped. Who are you excited to see? Yeah, I had it this morning. I'm really excited to see Talia Burnley. She's doing her debut. How would you describe her work to someone who hadn't seen it? Oh, God. Stripey. It definitely has an interception. I feel like I actually wore one of her shirts too because I didn't know what to wear.

6:53We did an event at Wembley Stadium for one of the Lionesses' friendly games and it was England v Portugal and they won like 6-1 or something. and I didn't know what to wear because I was like, it's an event and I wore one of Talia's tops because I think she's sort of at the intersection of sport and fashion a little bit. Would you agree? Yeah, I mean, rarely a day goes by when I don't come into the Vogue office and someone's not wearing one of her rugby shirts. They're like very popular. I feel like that happens every single day. So yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think I'm really excited to see Chipova Luena come back.

7:34They generally show once a year and it's always a big event and they have such a wonderful casting. They tend to invite their friends to walk the runway and it just has such a community feel to it. Connor Ives is showing. Roxanda's celebrating her 20th anniversary. So it feels like it's going to be quite vibrant a week. Yeah, I heard that it was 18 % more designers this week. So it's very robust. Yeah, no, and the British Fashion Council has a new CEO, Laura Weir, who's really great. And she actually announced that she would be cutting the fees for designers to show it on the week. So I think there's a lot of momentum around that and a lot of goodwill around that because I think the designers need as much support as they can.

8:28yeah I'm actually sitting with the sensei of summer summer London style trends every time Daisy writes about a summer trend it pops off on the website and then I start seeing it everywhere I have to say literally every girl in London is wearing a micro mini under the age of 30 is wearing a micro mini pleated skirt it is an actual fact yeah because we throw you know obviously people throw around the word everyone is wearing quite a lot but I think the mini skirts everyone is wearing them. I feel like in the future people will remember this as the summer of the miniskirt. I think you're, I put money on your proclamations and I think you're actually right.

9:07And I remember going to see Charlie earlier this summer. But there's a uniform at the show. What do people wear at a Charlie show? It's funny because I saw, obviously I saw Charlie in June and then I saw Lana Del Rey, I think that was earlier this month at Wembley. And for Charlie everyone was wearing little black miniskirts and like some biker boots but I mean everyone was in miniskirts to the point that it was like they were barely there just like a strip of fabric um and actually everyone was in miniskirts for Lana but they were sort of white floaty rara skirts so it was like it was almost like same vibe different color um obviously for Lana there was a lot more cowboy boots and sort of more of a boho vibe to the crowd um but the main thing pulling all together was everyone apart from me probably was in a miniskirt or a mini dress.

10:00Has it inspired you to get on this trend? I live in my Levi jeans. I'm not. And also, you know, every day the office is blasted with air cons. So I don't think I could even sit there. I mostly see Daisy wandering around the office with a scarf wrapped around her head. That's quite chic. I know. And that's not even an exaggeration. I'm always in a woolen scarf. Literally. So that's what I'm wearing for summer. I do I also think you're like the sensei for training like you know when well when we say trainers we mean sneakers yeah so what is the look in London like what are the what are the sort of more obscure brands like what are the the ones that people are going back to what are the retro ones like what survived I keep seeing trainers getting smaller and smaller and smaller to the point that they're practically plimsolls um so everyone's going to explain what a plimsoll is thin, slimline, barely even sneaker sneakers around.

10:59Harry Styles loves them, which means that everyone loves them. True, true, true. And, you know, he finally hung up his sambas. I don't think he wears them anymore. He wears these, like, little Prada trainers. So I think we're finally, finally over the samba. I know. I think the fact the sambas, we've moved on. We've moved on. I do think that maybe there's also the one big concert that we haven't really registered is Oasis, the concert tour. And I do think two Vogue staffers showed up today with the Oasis adidas merch, which is actually really brilliant. It's so cool. Yeah, and it feels like throwback to late 90s, early aughts in such a good way.

11:38Do you think there's going to be a knock-on effect of the Oasis look or are you seeing any of that on the street? Yeah, definitely. I feel like Britpop style has been huge. I don't know if it is huge across the board or if it's just a UK thing. But certainly over here, that is still huge. You know, people wearing football shirts in all sorts of styles, bucket hats, like anything like that. And I almost feel like with the Euros and the Oasis shows back to back, it sort of has kept that Britpop style alive throughout the summer. Oh, I think we have one last piece of important news. how do you feel about dogs because dog is back i'm so excited i'm so excited yeah they're looking for the next cover star yeah you know who i want to be the next cover star who um the dog from too much oh my god mia is such a good idea because i've also been loving too much yeah yeah i loved i loved too much i thought it was laugh out loud funny i still haven't finished it but i need to and I've loved it.

12:44Can you describe, for those who haven't seen the dog on Too Much? Yeah. Well, she's a Chinese crested dog. I think that's the name of her breed. Right. Very peculiar looking. Yeah. She's 13 years old. I know that. Damn. And whispers that I've heard around and about is that this is her first role. Oh, my God. Yeah, but maybe she's wanted to roll for a while and she finally got her big moment. To be fair, she might not make it through the application process because she actually has had a shoot in Vogue already. Of course. Yes, so to apply you have to do it via the app. You submit a photo. So stay tuned because the winner will be announced on August 19th.

13:27Not many people know this about me, but I actually have a frog. I own a frog. Daisy, why am I not surprised? That's what everyone says. And I said, what's giving frog a mother about me? so maybe Froge can come next Froge has to come next I mean every time I talk to you I feel like I discover something weird and unexpected just for context go and read Daisy's stories because she's done so many things in the name of Vogue in the name of a great story thank you so much for coming on Daisy thanks so much for asking me

14:07We'll be back in just a moment.

14:33in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

14:54Let's talk about your most recent show, which usually when I go to Fashion Week, I always feel a bit of anxiety. Oh, yeah, me too. But you managed to make it a space where people feel welcome, where it's a place where you stay, where it's a place where people commune. Talk about the setting for the show. I mean, you know, it feels like such a warm place. And so I think this idea of home is really like. Yeah, thank you again for saying it because it is something that I take really, really seriously. And all of my, you know, the team, Tam, Polly, everyone, everyone that contributes towards. So Tam, who's your amazing stylist?

15:38Yeah, Tamara Rothstein, who's my amazing stylist and dear friend. It's a real focus. It's a real focus. It's like so much time is spent on like people's experience, where they sit, how it feels when they sit, the angles, the environment, how we want people to feel. And that goes with every single environment that we create or that we go into is we really, really focus on that feeling. I just want to create, always wanted to create a bit of a pause, a bit of a minute to sort of bring it all down a bit. And that, I mean, I have the luxury of that because I always show off season. So I know, or I'm the last late show.

16:23So I try and choose slots where people are not rushing off to something else. So they can, there's an opportunity to pause. And I do think that that is from my nan's house. Yeah. I mean, I'd never been to a Martine Rose show. I'd only seen them from afar. I lost my Martine Rose virginity that day. Oh my gosh. Stop it. That is so surprising. Isn't it? Yeah. It's surprising for me. I've always had you there. I know. I've been there in spirit. You have? I've always been there in spirit. In fact, and it was lovely because I ran into so many people. Yeah. And not just fashion people. No, no. There's artists, there's photographers.

16:59It's like quite a community. Yeah, I want to break that. Your family were there. Your lovely daughter, Valentin is there. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I know. So I, from first doing shows, I really wanted to cut through that sort of like the fashion edge, I think, of shows. And I really wanted to make it to sort of like break it because the thing with, you know, fashion audiences is they're very spoiled and sort of jaded and very fluent in that, you know, in that sort of thing. and it can become just a little bit repetitive. And I sort of realised that there was a formula that I needed to break when I did my first show, my first proper show in the market in Tottenham.

17:46And we got all of the storeholders in and they would, so it was in an indoor market. We asked the storeholders to still keep their hair up on it, but it was more than an indoor market. It was like a community. It had an immigration lawyer in there. You could go in on Saturday morning, get your hair done, get your nails done, get your shopping done, your husband can watch the telly, the kids would be running around. It was a real safe space. And so we asked them to keep their appointments and serve food and all of that sort of stuff, which they did. And so we invited them to the show and they were whooping and cheering and it just bought something else.

18:19And I was like, that is how I want my shows to be. I want that. You know, I want people to be excited, to really feel like they're going to a show, you know, to feel like that. And you can't get that with just a fashion crowd anymore. You have to cut through it. And so that has been something that I've sort of been really interested in building and all of that stuff. And then this last show was another example of that, I guess. But when we actually had a market, we invited people underneath, you know, to sort of like have the floor underneath. And it's just fun. It's just fun to invite everyone.

18:56Yeah. No, no. I love that. I mean, so you had a, I mean, you could shop there the day of the next day too. There was a whole market of vendors, of designers. I know that the likes of Jawara Alain were there. Oh, beautiful Jawara. I know. I'm so honoured. So honoured that I was, I mean, I was honoured that everyone participated. But how it happened is we, obviously we had the job centre. It was a massive space. So I don't think people in the US might know what a job centre is. I was trying to explain this. Yeah, that's true. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Because someone else, we were talking about the definition of what job centres are.

19:34And in the UK, basically, they are where you go to find jobs and usually and all different types of jobs. And apparently that the job centre that we use is where the clash met. No way. Yeah, so I think like in popular culture, job centres have, you know, they have paid a part in popular culture as well. You be sure you did a very famous song called, I can't remember, it was about a gyro slip. The song was about, and it was about the job centre because it's like it's sort of the front line of where government policy sort of like impacts real people and all of that sort of stuff. So, you know, there have been lots of sort of punk and reggae songs about it in the past.

20:14But anyway, so we did the job centre, derelict job centre where the clash met. And we had the backstage on the top floor and we built the show in the second floor. And then we just had a spare floor. And we were like, well, you just can't have a spare floor. You can't waste a floor. So we invited all different types of makers, jewellery makers, magazine people, people that make magazines, vintage sellers, records, you know, that have contributed for the past, over the past half a century to culture. And we invited them to, yeah, to show, to actually set up a market. And so then before the show, we had Havana Club sponsoring the drinks, which was amazing because it lubricated everyone to spend money.

21:02We love that. We love that. Shopping drunk is so fun. Shopping drunk is, yeah, I got a few texts going, I can't bloody believe how much money I spent at your market yesterday. but it was amazing. The market was open the next day, so I didn't have, obviously post-show is always really hard. You know, there's always so much going on, but then I went back the next day to do some shopping myself. Did you find stuff? Oh, loads of stuff. Amazing. I spent a fortune. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to see that unboxing. Yes. I love that. I've already unboxed it, sadly. Well, we need to talk about the collection, which I thought was so great.

21:41And I think I love this kind of what you call modern sexy. It had everybody on the edge of their seats. And it was like so cool to be there because, you know, when people get excited and they're like giving them something like fresh and new. Talk to me about how it all came about and what your starting point was. What was my starting point? I think it was a desire. it's always really hard to sort of pin down because it's never like, right, okay, sometimes it's not clear. Sometimes it's just this sort of feeling that I want to create. And it was just, it was like this feeling of, I could see it.

22:26I could see almost like a crow, almost like this sort of like too tight, too short, too sort of sexy. It was just, it was very much a sort of silhouette that I could see. and I could see this hunched figure with hands in pockets and everything was just a bit too short, a bit too tight. But somehow finding the sexiness in that and the sort of, I'm always interested in this sort of like the edges, people on the edges, but also the edges of where it can be real, it can still be real, still you don't know where the line between sort of sexiness and like reality is, you know. But it's just that point.

23:09It's a little bit, you're dancing on the edge of everything, but it's still, it's still cool. You know, you don't know why he's cool. You don't know why it's cool. You don't know why you like it, but you just, but you just do. Yeah. And that also comes from the people that embody it, the people that sort of embody it. Tell me, because for me, I'm always attracted to the casting of your shows. I mean, we didn't even get to talk about the hair, the accessories. I mean, there's so many shoes I want from that show. I love the kind of... Yeah, I know. The sort of like kitten heel that had a bit of a...

23:45Almost like a trainer kitten heel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I loved. So we should talk about the people first, because I think, I know the casting is so important for you. It is. You know, I sort of figured out quite recently that everything, sort of the reason that I do what I do is sort of to get close to people. Actually, I just really love people. And I'm really noisy about them. And I sort of figured out that actually the medium is closed, but it's just a tool to sort of get close to people and to tell stories about them and to tell stories about the people that are in the clothes and but stories about other types of people types of people you know or I don't know I don't know what it is but I find the casting is really really important they're really part of the storytelling and you know the way that we choose people it's like it's a sort of a quality that you can't it really transcends beauty physical beauty although they are at all physically physically beautiful but it's not it's sort of in often in a very nuanced unconventional way and sometimes the beauty is a beauty that you've pulled out of them because they absolutely can't see it themselves so you're getting people that have never walked before never done any modeling before never even considered themselves for whatever reason particularly beautiful then you're getting them into an environment that is quite like you know overwhelming but then you're you're again can you put on these really long shoes this wig and these really short shorts so that's a leap that gives you a sense of what the collection or the sort of yes yeah the sort of silhouette the mix the mix but then you sort of it's trust isn't it and then you you build up because you do it over time you know you find someone and like they have this quality and it's like a curiosity but they can't and they're like they're sort of nervous but they're curious enough and they're curious about what it is you see in them sometimes so they're unsure but they still go with you and then you build up and they and they go with you and then you you know you put as you're layering more onto the character they start to see it themselves and they start to see that they're part of this bigger thing and they start to look at the other people around and you sometimes they And honestly, I can't tell you the moving stories that we've had of people that have come with you.

26:12Like they've gone and they've overcome it and how proud they feel of themselves afterwards. Because it must be frightening to walk out in front of a room full of fashion people. So we were doing, and we're asking people that have never walked before in like difficult clothes and, you know, complicated, you know what I mean? Fashion, you know, and that is fashion. with capital F. Yes. Capital F. And it's hard. So to go back to the casting, it's, they're impressive. You know, they're really impressive. They really overcome huge hurdles to do it and they, it's really worth it. You know, they're really proud of themselves.

26:52It's amazing. So they, they, it's all part of it. You know, and I think, and I think the people in the audience can feel it as well. A thousand percent. They're not blank. No. They're not blank. No, not at all. Do you see what I mean? And that, you know, that is, it's imperfect and that's what we tell them like don't you know it is not perfection that we're looking for we're looking for all of your quirks and nuances that's because i want people to see themselves in the people that in some way even if we're putting prosthetics and wigs and all you know what i mean and all of it all of that just doesn't feel relatable but somehow it has to be because otherwise what are we doing you have to be able to connect with a person and you connect with people generally because they're flawed because they're not you can sort of imagine themselves the wobble is a bit you know i mean and that's what makes them human and stutter yeah exactly it's beauty so it's always the beauty in the the flaws that really came through yeah it really came through i mean one thing i wanted to ask you was about the hair because i love the hair what was the reference like what were you thinking about oh you know what it was it was tap you know we'd we'd already had this idea so we wanted we wanted this feeling when you went into the market because that's where you came in first and we were like oh yeah we wanted people to think yeah it's a martine rose show a bit grungy a bit like blah I know what I'm going to get and then we wanted to transform we wanted to take you somewhere else so it was our version of a salon so we completely completely it was a kilometer of fabric we used and I don't know if the US listeners are going to know what Mills and Boone is no so Mills and Boone was like romantic novels a very the biggest selling romantic huge huge huge but it was it so it was almost like very sort of like 80s soft soft focus sort of sexy you know very feminine sex wasn't it like very draped curtains it was like completely completely transformed so we had this grungy market that you sort of went into and then you got went up a level to the show and you were sort of transported into this softness it was really enveloping wall-to-wall softness wall-to-wall softness and that's what we wanted this sort of like and we wanted the wanted everything to feel fluffy and light and so that was the that was the feeling for the hair we wanted it to like to almost like pulse Pulse, yeah.

29:18And those prints with the crotch. Yeah, the fringe. Amazing. Just everything to feel really soft and just to move with the clothes, I think, just to have its own life. Yeah, so that was it. And I mean, obviously, Gary is just a master. Well, it worked so well with the clothes. I thought it was. Thank you. It was really great. And it gave, like you said, this lightness, this fluffiness, this kind of like they were floating. Yeah.

29:50You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

30:17I mean I feel like your work always taps into real life communities you know often very close to you yeah are there people who are inspiring you lately how are you like I mean I get asked this a lot like and it's honestly as straightforward as as seeing people on the bus you know I took a picture of a guy the other day a bit like a creep but I couldn't help it I sort of like zoomed in and I was like because I've seen him a few times and he is uh his personal style is unbelievable sometimes I see him on the straddle green road and he's like oh he must be in his 60s but it's completely completely considered the color code you know everything is so perfect it's perfect his hat he's got the way he like the tilt of his hat I mean I can't even tell you and I saw him at football the other day and I never get the chance to take a picture and I was like there he is creeping through the bar yeah but I just I really respect it I really respect And I really enjoy how people express themselves.

31:20And it's just endless. So like it is literally, you know, people on the bus. It is groups. It is people coming out of church. It is kids coming out of school. It is the flourish that people add to this. And how kids, a little personal flourish they add to their uniform or something to just identify themselves slightly. I find that endlessly inspiring, what people choose to show. Agreed. You know what I mean? Agreed. I find that in all communities, I find that across the board, it's just so fun. I know. I mean, it's so funny because we recently interviewed A$AP Rocky and he was saying that Harlem is the best dressed area in the world.