Meghann Fahy Has The New Lily Allen Album On Repeat | PLUS Why Boyfriends Are Embarrassing

0:00Getting the girls trip out of the group chat just feels right. The Fort Myers area delivers the memories, bonding, and let's do this every year energy. Start planning at visitfortmyers.com.

0:17This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mal. And I'm Chairman Audie. And today, I've lost my voice, and we have a very fun guest on the show, the fantastic Megan Fahey, who we all know and love from White Lotus Season 2. She was the lovable but slightly out-to-lunch blonde wife. And she has so many new projects in the works. I loved her in Sirens last summer with Julianne Moore. And in this interview, you'll hear what she stole on set, which I sort of like as a recurring theme for us because when we interviewed Julianne Moore, she talked about how she stole the cape jacket that she wears when she's finally leaving at the end of the season.

0:58So I like that the run-through has become what you stole from Sirens.

1:06Yeah, I mean, I honestly got so much FOMO just listening to it because Margot and Christian just seem to be having so much fun, our colleagues at VILG.com. Anna and I actually sat next to her at the Valentino show in Paris, and she was so much fun and so delightful and was having such a fun, like, romantic trip to Paris. She dates her co-star from White Lotus Season 2, Leo Woodall, and they're just such cuties. I love the idea of them having a romantic Parisian weekend and then her popping into Valentino. So everyone stay tuned for that conversation later in the show. Spoiler alert, they talk about ghosts.

1:47But first, Choma, what has been happening in London this week? It's been quite a quiet week. I think all of the action seems to have been coming over from the U.S. And I guess our friends in Milan, and now that the big Vogue World announcement has been made today, it's happening on September 22nd in Milan, and it's going to be a real focus on Italian creativity, I think both from a cultural and industry perspective. And the focus will be all about the human touch and craft in the age of technology. I'm very excited. I think it's fun that it's very fashion focused and it's very much about the art of fashion and the petit main, as they say, the real hands and the craft behind what goes into the making of clothing.

2:35It's really, to me, the intethices of fast fashion, but also looking at the way technology and advances and how things are produced contribute to that. Yeah. And I think, you know, the made in Italy still means something to a lot of people. And it's such a nation of craftspeople. And I hear that it's been, I guess they've got the entire city involved. In fact, the mayor, Giuseppe Sala, and the deputy mayor of culture, Tommaso Saki, are involved. So, yes, everything you need to know about Vogue More Old Milan is now available on Vogue.com and every international Vogue website. And off we go. Andiamo Ochoa.

3:16but speaking of cities I saw you looked amazing in the city last night this is really crazy how am I this segue is the worst segue of life no no we have to keep it I love it we just had speaking of cities you all live in one you are in one right now you looked really good in Diatima at the CVFF awards thank you so much tell us everything yeah I love that look on you I have to say I had not thought about what I was going to wear Monday night and on Sunday morning morning my friend Ricky DeSole texted me and said, what are you wearing tomorrow night? And I replied, shit. And she said, I'll bring you something.

3:54And so she brought me her Diatima look from what she wore to the CVFF dinner two years ago. And I think now going forward, I'm just always going to borrow my CVFF look. I'll wear Ricky's old look from the year before. I love that. How sustainable of you. Yes, exactly. It's a circular, circular fashion. But I have to say, this was one of the, I've been going to CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund dinners since 2011 because I'm an elderly individual. And this is one of the most fun, intimate, tender, joyful nights I've been part of. It was really lovely. It was at this restaurant, The Crane Club. People were so happy to be there.

4:33Cocktail hour was really fun. And all the finalists. My favorite part of the CVFF is how close-knit all the 10 finalists become throughout the process and how they support each other. It's really a moment for designers supporting designers throughout their creative process and getting through the business challenges that inevitably they face. The winners were Ashlyn, Ashlyn Park, and Julian Louis of menswear label Obero, and Stephanie Superville of Air Loam. And Choma, you can talk more about the jury and the selection process because you were on the jury for a long time, but it is a very involved project.

5:17I think that many of the designers will say that they learn a lot from it, but I think we as judges learn a lot from it. I love to hear everybody's perspective. I always felt like it was a real privilege to be able to do it and to be part of it. And you get to know the designers in a really intimate way because you go and visit them in their studios and you see how they work. And it's not so often that we get to do that. I did have the honor of having breakfast today with Sean McGurr, who's the creative director at McQueen. And it was nice because we started around the same time and we were both kind of sharing stories about what it's like to be two years in.

5:52So that was fun.

5:58And so announced yesterday morning on Vogue Business, Belma has a new creative director. Choma, tell me about Antonin Tron. Yeah, I think, I mean, honestly, Mark Hoggett was actually the first person to really introduce me to Antonin Tron's work. He's a Parisian-born designer. He studied at the Royal Academy of Arts in Antwerp. And he apprenticed with RAF, so he's of the School of RAF, and a few designers can say that they're part of that kind of hallowed group, and he's one of them. And he also worked at Louis Vuitton and Balenciaga and Saint Laurent and Givenchy before he struck out on his own.

6:34And about 10 years ago, he launched this independent brand called Atline. And I remember when it launched because it was quite, he really was passionate about sustainability, but it wasn't any, there was nothing crunchy granola about his line at all. It was these beautifully cut jersey dresses that were quite sexy, actually, and completely not what you'd imagine. But he involved from a brand that has kind of sustainability as part of the mission statement. And yeah, people are excited about him at Valmont, although I love Olivier Rousting. And yeah, I mean, Olivier is going to be big shoes to fill.

7:08He's larger than life and really made the brand what it is today in the last decade. So there's big shoes to fill. But I think perhaps now it is time for a new chapter. Yeah. So I think exciting on both counts. Exciting to see someone new and also exciting to see someone who's incredibly established and has given a lot to fashion to do something new. So watch the space. Now, Choma, a few weeks ago on the podcast, we talked about the very viral is having a boyfriend embarrassing piece that ran on British Vogue. And it is amazing to me that people are still talking about this and having conversations online.

7:46Two people asked me about it this weekend. Someone sent me a meme about it. Earlier this week, you spoke to the writer, Shantae Joseph, about the piece and also a follow-up piece that she has in the works. What did you learn? So much. I mean, honestly, it has upended her life. It's definitely touched on a nerve in the culture she has gotten. She's been flooded with messages. And I think, honestly, she's, there's this critical mass around the sort of singledom and what it means now. And that is something that women are choosing a lot more for themselves in a way that feels very much like the anti-pick-me energy that kind of had been pervasive up until this point.

8:28It is totally that, Choma. It's like the not thirsty for a boyfriend. Yes. Yeah, just like I complete myself. Thank you very much. And if I need someone, they have to actually bring something to my life rather than this desperation that we have to define ourselves by the men that we stand next to. So it was really refreshing talking to her. I mean, obviously, she's had a lot of really amazing responses from other women who feel similarly. Young women, she's literally just barely 30, you know. So she's young and she has a lot more living to do before she decides whether singledim is something she wants to play with for now or if this is something that she feels like, yeah, this is who I am.

9:07You know, this is part of me. And it was very interesting because she also had a lot of negative feedback from men, you know, a lot of quite incel type energy and people being very upset, men specifically being very upset with the message. I mean, sure.

9:52about this idea of like a relationship recession. Oh, wow. So I think that there's something in the air and she's got a book in the works. So I'm very excited. And you're going to be hearing much more from Shante. Well, I can't wait to hear your conversation. Here's Choma and Shante.

10:13Welcome. Hi, Shante. Hello. We've been anticipating this moment for quite some time. We're so excited to have you. I mean, I don't know where to start because before we started recording, Shantana was actually talking about how you were spotted on the street. Yeah, literally. And people have been messaging you. And basically the last 17 days has just been a complete whirlwind that you've had interviews every day. And it's all because of this incredible priest that you wrote about, which the title of it is, is having a boyfriend embarrassing now. And it just seems like you touched a raw nerve on the culture.

10:50and it's taken the internet by storm. It's sparked so many interesting conversations. The name check by Zoran Mandami. It's just like, it's insane. I think for my life, there is before the Vogue piece and after the Vogue piece. I don't know quite how to explain the level of virality I've experienced, but just in the last 17 days, over 100 ,000 people have followed me on Instagram and TikTok. I cannot believe it. I did not know that many people could just flock to one place on the internet in that way. That has been insane, you know. I remember I was in the airport on my way home from Munich and someone was like, oh, can I take a picture with you?

11:27And that's happened like twice. And I've been so, and I just look so bummy and plain and just like, meh. And people are like, I want to take a picture with you. And I'm like, this is insane. You know, I'm getting so many messages. Like family members are reaching out because other people have asked them. My dad was like, a recruiter said to him, oh, are you related to Shantae Joseph, the girl that wrote the article? I was like, what do you mean? Even my parents are being accosted about this. Like from just, you know, their generation all the way through to my younger Gen Z cousins, everyone is speaking about this.

11:58Everyone has something to say. I've had so many people just reach out and like messages, emails, texts, phone calls. Like I am, I'm overwhelmed. So much media as well. I've been doing interviews, like radio interviews, podcast interviews, like, you know, written interviews. It's just been endless. I cannot believe the level of like almost somewhat like celebrity that has been thrust upon me because of this one piece. Like it's wild. I mean, what do you think it is about this and the moment we're in that struck a chord with women, people? I mean, everybody really. Yeah, I think it's twofold. One part is that I think single women particularly, our lives are so like heavily scrutinized.

12:36Sometimes the way that people question single women particularly about their status, it just feels kind of repulsive you know who are you dating at the moment why are you dating what's wrong with you why are you not on the apps why does your profile look like that why do you take pictures like that do you mean like it's so you just feel judged for it and i just think it never really lets up and i think when someone turns around is like well actually he's having a boy it's like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa things have changed the tables have turned and then on the other side you do have just the way like men are in society now the fact that there's not a lot of shame attached to like being treated badly by a man anymore and that's why I think a lot of women can come on TikTok and be like oh here are the 10 things awful things this man did to me or this was my tinder date from hell this was a horror story hinge day I went on like we don't hold that shame anymore we talk about it and because we talk about it that sort of like heterosexual romantic fantasy is really starting to just dissipate it doesn't hold the way it did it doesn't grip people I need this thing because we know what's happening behind the curtains and so I think now we can kind of have candid conversations about our desire or our lack of desire to be in a romantic relationships and we don't get judged for it like we used to and I think that's really just worked people up into a frenzy you know I think this it's been very very polarizing very polarizing and I think it's interesting that you talk about shame because I think the word embarrassing has really triggered it's that idea of shame and like you know guilty by association that idea has really because it's obviously a super polarizing word right yeah yeah and that's that's done like on purpose you know i mean i think the only way to get people to really think critically about their particularly heterosexual relationships is to attach this element of ill to it because now they're like no one wants to be disgusting no one wants to be gross no one wants to be embarrassing and so when you say oh this thing that i have kind of centered my life around actually isn't serving me culturally in the way I would like it to, it really forces you to interrogate it a bit.

14:33And one of the things I talk about a lot is this idea of like, even though we're so progressive and everyone is like so much more forward, I think we still believe that like straight heterosexual relationships are the norm. We still believe that this is the base and everything else is sort of other and different. And we can scrutinize and critique all those other things. But as soon as you start to criticize heterosexuality as a norm, people don't like it because they believe is biologically wired in us and everyone else is a bit off. Actually, no, this is a construct. This is something that we should also critique and be very critical of.

15:05But no one wants to do that because it means that you shattered the illusion and the fantasy that people have attached their self-worth to. And so, yeah, I just kind of figured I want to have this conversation. I know I'm probably going to get a bit of heat. I'm probably going to get flack. People are going to call me bitter, single, angry, lonely, jealous. But you know what? At least we're having this conversation no i totally i totally totally agree with you i mean what are some of the interesting most interesting responses takes that you've had that have kind of helped bring the conversation forward i think a lot of kind of women are saying things like oh it's only embarrassing if he isn't nice to you or he doesn't do these things to you or a lot of women will be like yeah men are embarrassing but not my man and there's this literally everyone does this gosh people are men are trash but not my man and it's this idea of people want to agree with me but then they always need to make themselves the exception and then it kind of defeats the purpose it's like we know not all men and we hate when people say oh don't say not all men because we know what we're talking about yeah but for some reason in this context particularly women just refuse to engage with that sort of same level of like critique which i found really interesting and then on the other side you kind of have the women who are single who have just taken this and they are just overjoyed they've turned into a tiktok trend you know people are people keep asking me is it going to be in print is it going to be in print and i'm like no and they've started to print out the article and make their own frames and posters i'll like send you i've got the screenshots i need to see this they put it up on their walls you know i've just i've they've really seen this as a pivotal moment for them a moment that kind of changes everything they understood as what is like normal or acceptable in society.

16:45And I think on top of that, you then have the men and women using this whole idea of, you know, you're single and you wish you were in a relationship and you're jealous and you're going to die alone and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, those threats don't hurt anymore. We're in a very, very different time when a lot of women are actively choosing to be single. Like, you know, The Economist just released their piece about the relationship recession. Like people are not coupling up anymore. So those threats, they just don't hold any weight and this sort of like oh your boyfriend is embarrassing feels a bit like you know another nail in the coffin it's like the tide is changing and you can't use those things to shame me anymore because like they don't carry any weight it's so interesting because i think you mentioned in the piece that there's been this shift on social media and i haven't really heard of this place called boyfriend land but it's coined by the writer josh lara and it's a phenomenon where women post their boyfriends online and I guess like you get value from doing that by association but that's no longer happening and that people are blurring out their boyfriends faces and obscuring their boyfriends in pictures when did you start to see this shift and when did you realize it was something that you needed to write about because I know that this commission happened but I actually don't know like how this idea came together so yeah I think I just started to notice it a lot because at first it became a running joke of like some women on Instagram just like editing out their boyfriend's head so it would be like someone down on one knee but they wouldn't have a head and you'd be like what the hell is going on and before it was kind of a more shy coy sort of posting where it might just be like two wine glasses at dinner or yeah yeah back of the head you know but then it started to be this sort of I still want to post this person but I just don't want there to be any sort of idea of them being really in my life but they are in my life you know you'd notice that influencers or kind of people who have big platforms would do it but then even just normal people were doing it and I was like you have 150 followers like what this is so why is everyone doing this you're literally not a celebrity but sure and I think yeah seeing a lot of that and also being you know super online and kind of just hearing the way that singleness was spoken about how many um influencers and content creators who are just like you know pro single their whole platform was about okay what does it mean to be a single woman how much their followers had grown exponentially over the just the past maybe two years and I was like okay there's something that is like really picking up steam here and so the sort of coming at it from the angle of people hiding their boyfriends was like a way another way for me to explore that because why do we suddenly start to really cherish our singlehood and our own identities why do we not even want to be associated with a man at all yeah then I was like you know I would love to write about this and I'm writing a book at the moment about dating yeah tell me about that it's called picky I haven't actually like i'm sure it's fine um and it's kind of about like yeah why things have changed so much and all this idea of like you're single because you're too picky like what does that actually mean what does the state of day look like people say that so you right and i've been because i was reading a lot about that at the time it kind of helped me to influence a lot of like the theory that i reference when i write this piece as well um just like looking at a lot of like feminist scholars and their views of heterosexuality like it just all started to click together like a puzzle in my mind and so I was like I need to just pitch this to Daisy and just like fingers crossed like I think it was like her first day back from leave or something and I was like hey I've got this idea I really want to send to you and then yeah she commissioned it and like the rest was history and you and you also write about this this thing that you call the evil eye where there's suspicion to related to posting their boyfriends online yeah it feels like there's such a weird can you unpack that for us a little bit so I think for some people there was like a cultural context of the evil eye being this thing where if you're showing too much of your success or your happiness, people's bad vibes will lead to you losing this thing.

20:32And a lot of girls were like, I don't want to post my boyfriend because of the evil eye. I don't want girls to be hating on me and then all of a sudden he breaks up with me and stuff like that. But this idea that if people see your partner and see that you're happy or whatever, even that you have someone, because everyone is so jealous of you, of course, you're going to lose this person. But it just kind of fed into this idea of, oh, I need to cherish this one partnership. I need this person to, you know, this is so important to me and no one else can have this and everyone else wants this. Almost sometimes I think like the delusions that we conjure for ourselves when we think about the importance of our heterosexual relationships.

21:08But also the privacy idea. A lot of people are like, well, I just don't share my partner because privacy. But I was like, everyone else in your life, your mom, your cousin, your aunt, your lizard, your fish, your best friend's aunt, everyone's on your Instagram. But for some reason, for some reason, your romantic partner requires this special privacy that, like, is only afforded to him. Like, what is that about? And I think that is an element of the shame, you know. When you share your partner online and when you become someone who's always like, my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my man, my man, my man, it just is a bit, ugh, it's a bit cringe.

21:42It's just, you know, it just feels like the complete antithesis to where we're at as women, which I know a lot of people are not trying to hear. but I think that's why it's been such a kind of vibrant debate you know I mean you wrote about how someone commented on a podcast that why does having a boyfriend feel republican now and this really feels like a definite sign of the times we've been talking about trad wives and how that has become such a popular phenomenon and what do you make of that statement and having a boyfriend might be to some people in this political climate yeah I think that feeds into it I think a lot of kind of conservative traditional values like they've taken the heterosexual couple and they've made it like their own thing like they've kind of overthrown the perception of those relationships so now to be in a relationship you feel like this feels conservative yeah i just feel like i'm following this script i feel like i am part of this kind of larger movement that wants to take away my rights that wants to take us back to the time of the nuclear family it kind of feels very archaic.

22:44And I think that's done on purpose. Like you want people to buy into your political ideology. So if you can take something as central to our societies as the nuclear family, as our relationships, then, you know, you've kind of like managed to coax yourself into a larger audience of people. And so I think all of that stuff is done quite intentionally. But also, I think it's because men and women are just leaning very different ways politically. The manosphere, incels. I mean, a lot of the really horrible comments I got off the back of this article was were clearly from you know men who are deep like steeped in the manosphere and all of the content i do not want to go to the right it is a scary scary place um but you kind of see that and i've had women even message me the past couple days talking about yeah you know i was with my partner and like now he's leaning more and more right you know he's like watching a lot of these youtubers and these podcasts now his beliefs have like fundamentally changed because obviously they speak so much to men's insecurities and this idea that women are becoming more empowered.

23:42You know, we are earning more than men. We're educated more than men. We're employed more than men. We're going up, right? And we're going left. And then the men are going down and right. And so it's just like one of the final spaces that men can truly exert dominance and power is in our kind of dating culture, where unfortunately, I think as much as women have progressed so much to our very core that idea of I need to be picked I need to be chosen I need to be loved by a man you don't want to be a pick me right you don't want to be a pick me but it's like you can't shift those attitudes and I think it's why like men can still get away with a lot of heinous stuff in the dating space because our desire to be loved is stronger than our sense sometimes for sure I think you're so you're so right I mean I hear you're writing a follow-up Yes, I am.

24:27I filed that this morning. I would love to discuss my potential column. I'd love to. I'm ready. I'm ready. I think we need this. We need more of you. Yeah, no, I need some column inches. I've got things to say. I've got things to say. I'm so happy that you came on. Honestly, thank you for making the time. And thank you for this. Thanks for having me. The Run Through will be back in just a moment with Megan Fahey. Thank you.

25:26So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

25:36Here's Margot and Christian's amazing conversation with actor Megan Fahey. So you have a new film out in theaters rebuilding on November 14th, which is the day after this episode airs. It came out to great reviews at Sundance. I watched it last night. I don't want to give too much away, but basically it's a story about a cowboy named Dusty, played by Josh O 'Connor, who is our very cute run-through alum. I love him. Loses his ranch during a wildfire, and you are his ex-wife, rebuilding the aftermath, what life is like. What drew you to this role? I'm curious because it feels quite different than a lot of the other things that we know you for.

26:19Yeah, I think that was the huge draw for me. also Max who wrote and directed the film is someone who I was a fan of before I just really love his style of filmmaking it's very modest in a way that I think doesn't exist a lot anymore you know he really leaves a lot of space I'm sure if you watched it you would feel like he's not forcing anything to happen he's just kind of like letting the thing exist and there's a simplicity to that that I find really intriguing. And the character, yeah, was very different than anything I've ever done before. And so I was really looking forward to kind of being able to step into that space of just like a very stripped down, subtle, honest piece.

27:07Well, you probably had a difficult job because you had to create a very interesting dynamic. Like you have, you know, Josh O 'Connor, you guys are ex, you know, ex-wife, ex-husband. You have a child, Lily Latore, who plays your daughter. and you kind of have to build that from nothing. Like, you know, you're meeting on set for the first time. So how did you build that sort of dynamic with both of them? Yeah, it was interesting because they started filming before I arrived, which is always a little tricky. Like when you show up and it's sort of already happening, it's like, you know, camp is started and you're there a week late and you just like feel like you're playing catch up a little bit.

27:41So I remember feeling like the first day I was like, oh my God, I don't think that went well at all. why why did you feel that way the only thing i had to do was like come in and like walk down the stairs and like give josh a look and i couldn't do it in a way that felt like a human being i was like why is this it's like when you don't have anything to do you just have one thing to do and you overthink it yeah so much that you're like oh i don't know how to say hi like a normal person because that's the only thing i have to do all day um but after that it was like Like, you know, I mean, it was a very cozy set.

28:16And Lily was amazing and super chatty and, like, really wanted to hang. So she actually was somebody who kind of, like, I feel like really brought me into the vibe with everyone else because she was so playful and wonderful. And Josh is obviously just really sweet and down to earth and was really, really lovely, too. So, yeah, it didn't take long to kind of fold in. But, yeah, at the beginning, I was like, oh, man. Any fun stories with Josh? Because he always has fun stories from set. He's such a good storyteller. I am not as good of a storyteller as he is. That's not true. We went to a rodeo.

28:56I went to my first rodeo. Oh, my God. What did you wear? I think I just wore jeans and a white T-shirt. That's actually very on point. Yeah. I mean, like, 50 % of the time, you'll catch me in that particular outfit. so I'm just taking a guess but I think it was probably that have you guys ever been to a rodeo? I actually never have I'm from Texas so you know I don't have a southern accent but I am grew up in Texas I thought it was an unbelievable experience what did y 'all watch? I was not familiar with like just sort of the the tradition of that and how everybody goes every weekend and it's like you know the whole town sort of there and it felt very cozy I was shocked by the mutton racing.

29:44Oh, I love it. Oh, I've heard of that. They have like two and three-year-old children like barebacking sheep and getting like thrown off. It was wild. It was really incredible. My mom was a barrel racer. And so not like when I was really a child, but she grew up doing it. And so I tried it and then switched to English writing. But I was like, that's way too hard for me. mostly I was into brushing the horse's hair if I'm being honest um but I like love everything about rodeos I mean I even love the smell of like horses there's something like really it felt so culturally different and so it was from from where I grew up I grew up in Massachusetts and so I think like to be experiencing a part of my own country that felt like it could have been a different one in this way and like really feel the sense of community in that space was I was so moved by it it was really it was beautiful so that was a highlight that's so fun so like I mentioned I'm from Texas I don't have a southern accent though you had a little bit of twang can you do one hey y 'all I feel like the only time I ever sound like southern is when I say y 'all I'm curious though because you had like a twang in the film yeah I don't think I was supposed to okay honestly but did you I really don't think I think I was supposed to.