Ms. Tina Knowles on Beyoncé’s Name, Blue Ivy in Mufasa, and Cowboy Style

0:03This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel. And just in time for the new year, we are bringing back one of our favorite episodes with the incredible Ms. Tina Knowles. Earlier this year, Miss Tina visited the Vogue offices to chat with me and Kiana Merton, Vogue's senior beauty shopping writer and a huge Beyoncé fan. And we had such a fantastic conversation with Miss Tina. We covered everything from the origin of her daughter's names to the salon she owned when they were younger to cowboy style and even her granddaughter's first acting role in Mufasa, The Lion King, which came out on December 20th.

0:38And certainly Beyonce is on everyone's mind after her incredible halftime performance at the football game on Christmas Day. So I can't wait for all of you to listen.

0:55Miss Tina, this is such a treat. You look so beautiful today. Thank you. I want to hear all about what you're wearing. And Keanu was just asking about your nail polish, which we also we have a lot of questions for you. So my nail polish is red. I wear this classic red that I've been wearing for 20, 30 years, and my kids are always saying, you know, Mom, can you just try something else? But I always come back to it. You know, it's just easy. What brand and color is it? I think I have a MAC lipstick, and the nail polish is, I get gel nails at the salon. I'm not sure. All right. It's nice that they match all your nails and your lip color.

1:38I really love that. It's a perfect red. Thank you. I'm glad you appreciate my red. I'm going to tell my children. Of course, yes. And tell us about this outfit. And can you describe it for people who are listening and can't see it? It's an Alexander McQueen jacket, and I just fell in love with it because it has these cups in it, like corset cups. And it's very tailored, and I love the flare pants. I love Alexander McQueen. That's my jam. I mean, you look fabulous. It's a very sleek black suit, but with surprising tailoring details, I would say, is how I describe it. Yes, that's a great description.

2:15And I like to pair jackets with belts. So I collect belts. I collect vintage belts. And this is a Schiaparelli belt that I got. And I have gotten more wear out of it because it just kind of dresses everything up. It really does. It's a black leather belt with an amazing gold buckle with charms coming off of it. Yeah, body parts. Body parts. Oh, are they? Oh, yeah, that's an ear. Oh, yeah, so you've got a lot of jingle happening. I love jingle. I hope that these bracelets, I bet you they're jingling like jingle bells in here. Are you a big Schiaparelli fan? I am a big, huge. Because they're wearing a ring as well, right?

2:55Yes, this is the ring. And I, you know, I have a lot of pieces. I've been collecting it, and that's my go-to gift. Wait, your go-to gift to receive or to give? To receive. Definitely not to give. And I do splurge every now and then, like the belt, and buy those things. Where do you buy your Schiaparelli? At Bergdorf and Neiman's in Los Angeles. You know, I go looking for accessories because I like clothes, but I think that a good belt and good accessories can change something that's just very plain into something signature. Absolutely. That's a good shopping tactic. I love that. What's your shopping approach?

3:39Do you shop in person a lot? Do you shop online? I have certain brands that I love. And, you know, I love Terry Mugler. I love everything with a structured shoulder and great tailoring. I'm a suit person. I very rarely wear dresses. But if I do, it's a fitted, you know, nice Dolce & Gabbana, like sexy form fitting dress. Where do you shop online if you shop online? Well, different brands. Everything from Nadine. Nadine Morabi. Yeah, Morabi. But I love like the jumpsuits. I'm a jumpsuit person, too. And they have these beautiful beaded lace jumpsuits. And they're moderately priced for what you get.

4:25It looks so expensive. But I shop online. I look at the collections. I love looking at Vogue.com. We love to hear it. Our favorite thing. Yeah, and it's how I learn what the trends are and, you know, keep on top of things. Are there any trends this season that you're excited about or rejecting? Oh, you know I'm excited about all this Western wear. Cowboy Carter. Yes. And I'm from Texas, so I've always worn boots and cowboy hats. Like, it's so funny, when I first moved to L.A., my then-boyfriend would say, Tina, you know, you kind of overdress a little bit because I came from New York. And so I wore my suits and, you know, and I put all my accessories on.

5:12And he's like, you know, this is California. and you can kind of lay back and wear some warm-ups. And I'm like, never, never. But I would wear cowboy hats and I would wear my boots. And it was such a thing that it was distracting. Like people would say, oh, you got on cowboy boots. Like not in such a great way. So listen, I am in heaven knowing that I'm fashionable and I got all these boots and cowboy hats. Excuse me, I might just have to say that you might have been the inspiration. Exactly. For cowboy carting. Maybe you're the reason it's now in fashion. Oh, that's very sweet. But no, my whole family, we're cowboys.

5:50You know, we're from Texas. And rodeo was like a big deal with us. Did you go? Oh, absolutely. We never missed the rodeo. And that was the time that everybody got their new boots and their new shirts and their new hats. I grew up going to prison rodeos in Texas, in Huntsville, Texas. My dad used to love the prison rodeo. Does it still exist? Like, can you still go to the— The rodeo? I don't know if the prison rodeo still exists in Huntsville, Texas, but the rodeo in Houston does. And, you know— We just photographed that, actually. Did you? Great street style. It was great. Yeah. Oh, my God. I went there for two days, and I ate so much junk I was sick when I left.

6:30You have to do a detox after the rodeo. Fried snickers and, you know, you got to have that stuff. Turkey legs and, yeah, all of that stuff. It's great. What's your go-to cowboy hat and boots? You know, Stetson hats we wore a lot. I literally love the new cowboy boots that are, I have the older ones, but you know, they take a lot to break into. Yeah, I've heard. So now everybody's making cowboy boots and they're very affordable and very comfortable. And they got a heel on them. So, you know, I'm trying to get that height. So I like the newer brands of them. Steve Madden is killing it with the cowboy boots.

7:07And they're reasonable and so comfortable. How do you manage hat hair under a cowboy hat? Hat hair? You just wear your hair. You got to know how to put your cowboy hat on with your attitude. You got to kind of tilt it to the side. Oh, wow. There's a whole approach. Oh, it's definitely an approach. You know when somebody's a newbie when they have their cowboy hat on straight on.

7:32The Run-Thru will be back in just a moment.

7:39Thank you.

8:09has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

8:21So obviously you had your salon growing up, one of the headliners. I've heard amazing things about it. It's been a couple months since Sager launch. Yes. How has that been? Oh my God. And what has the reaction been? I'm in heaven. Because, you know, I had the hair salon And I would have probably been there much longer. Not probably. I know I would have. But Destiny's Child took off and I had to go and be a chaperone and protect. So I earned my keep by doing the hair. So I gave my salon to one of my stylists. But I love nothing better than to make women feel beautiful. It's nothing like taking somebody and transforming them and transforming their hair.

9:02And they walk out of there feeling like, you know, they're on top of the world. We have a test salon in our building, and I'm in there five days a week just doing hair and testing it on different hair types. Because we have all these new products coming out that I'm so excited about. And sometimes I'm in there for six, seven hours a day doing hair. So if you look online, you'll see all the videos of me just sitting there acting like I'm back at headlining. Can you tell us about the name? Because I think it's so clever and unique. and I feel like hearing it, you don't really understand how it's spelled.

9:39We love the word sacred because what we found is as we were doing this process for six years, we kept saying, you know, doing your hair is a sacred experience. Like I always thought of it as being such a gift to me to be able to do somebody's hair because they trust you so much. They will tell you their life story because you're touching them. And so it was a sacred experience. And then we thought with CE, ending B's name, that we would try it with, you know, CE rather than SA. Thinking about the formulas themselves, how long were they in the making? Were you using them before sacred came to be?

10:19Well, I was using a lot of things because in my salon, I was always mixing things up. And so that's what Beyonce grew up seeing. And I would mix, you know, egg whites, mayonnaise. Really? Oh, yeah. Help me with the years or the timing of you having a salon. Was it when the kids were little? Was it before? I opened the hair salon when Solange was born. So it was the late 80s. And Beyonce grew up, so did Solange, so did Kelly. So they could all be hairstylists if they wanted to. But we did see a void that we wanted to fill, and we always talked about doing this product. We finally had the time to do it.

11:02She sends me stuff every day. I have this idea to do this. And so as far as us working together, sometimes we disagree. Sometimes we get a little spiffy with each other. But overall, we're really good friends. And we respect each other so much that it's easy. And what a joy it is for me to get to have an excuse to see my daughter every day and talk to her. So even when she doesn't want to be bothered, because you know how y 'all are with your mothers sometimes, I'll say, yeah, but I have a business question, so it's an excuse to bug her. And she got an answer. When I think about Sacred, I think about how Beyonce recently posted a video of her showing off her natural hair using Sacred.

11:46I think in a lot of ways it's in response to there being a lot of negative commentary around like, oh, should she start a brand? She doesn't even wear her hair. Why do you think that black women have to kind of show that they have healthy, natural hair? Why do we get these transisms? It's so disappointing because to me it insinuates that we can't grow hair. Like, why is that such an oddity? Hair grows out of your head. It grows out of everybody's head. And your hair grows a half an inch a month. So do the math. If you did six months of a half an inch, that's three inches of hair. That's a lot of growth.

12:20It's a lot of growth. And if you take care of that hair and keep it on your head, your hair will be not that long hair is better. But if you want to grow it, you should be able to grow it. And you can. And I was very irritated when people were saying those comments about she needs to show her own hair because why would I buy her product if she can't grow her hair? But those questions are not asked of other brands. Think about it. She's held to a higher standard of scrutiny. And I understand that she shot that video in February when we launched. And I kept saying, well, why don't you just put it out and just shut them up?

12:58And she's like, nope. But the comments just irritated her. So she was like, I don't I don't have to prove anything. I'm not putting it out. And I'm like, please put it out. Please put it out. And she's like, no, I'm not going to do it. So finally, we got her to do it after, you know, everybody else put theirs out. Because if you look on social media, I'm just overwhelmed at how many videos we have that people just shoot on their own. We don't solicit them. They just are so excited about the product that they show the steps and how great it's working. And so they're doing a lot of it for us, and I couldn't be more appreciative of that.

13:34Thinking about Secret, I think Beyonce's had another incredible moment, Cowboy Carter. Oh, yeah. So talk to us about that. I hear you heard it before the rest of us. So you're very, very lucky. What do you think about— She's her business partner. Exactly. She has to hear it. What do you think about her pivot into country music? Did you guys listen to country growing up, like as the kids were growing up and things like that? You know, we were influenced by country music, but just traditional country music, you know, it was—we heard it and we liked it. What were the favorite songs playing in your house when the kids were little?

14:08Oh, my God. The Isley Brothers was—that's my favorite of all times. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Just a lot of Motown artists. You know, I've become really good friends with Smokey Robinson and his wife. Y 'all might not even know because y 'all so young. I love Smokey Robinson. Okay, well, good. I'm glad you know him. But when I was pregnant with Beyonce, my ex-husband used to sing to my stomach. And he would sing the Smokey Robinson song. And when Beyonce was born, she was a real cranky baby. But we would put that song on and she would just lay there and just be quiet. And she loved it.

14:46We'd play it over and over. Can you sing us a bar for people who don't know the song? Oh, God. I have no voice. But saw you there, ooh, and the magic seemed to fill the air. Remember that? Yes. You don't know that. No, I do. I do. But anyway, I tell Smokey all the time that he is the reason why we have Beyonce as a singer. because I think that music, playing it to my stomach, and then her being born and her listening to it, he actually planted the seed. Oh, I love that. So don't start any rumors. He didn't plant a seed in me. He planted a seed in her. I think on the Western point, though, about music, but it also showed up in, you know, the costumes that you designed for them and Dusty's Child and things like that.

15:35Did you guys wear a lot of Western stuff? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, if you go back and look, and I've been collecting those things like photos. I did a lot of fringe and cowboy hats and cowboy boots. And it was all through the early Destiny's Child days because we were influenced, especially around rodeo time. I just got this tunnel vision that I'm going to do a bunch of fringe and, you know, and cowboy hats. And Beyonce has always worn cowboy hats. And she's a little girl. We have pictures of her. So it's been a part of it. She's been country. Being country is a negative sometimes, right?

16:12And so when we would speak or when she would speak when she first started off, they would say, oh, that girl is so country. And now she's not country enough, obviously, you know. So what can you do? What can you do? What's your favorite song on the new album? Probably I have so many and they change all the time, but I love Daughter. I love daughter not because she's my daughter, but because she sings an Italian aria. And Beyonce went to the High School of Performing Arts, and her teacher would always say she should be an opera singer. And I was like, you know, that wasn't her path, but she can sing opera.

16:53So for her to be able to put that on a record and is such a dramatic song about, you know, killing somebody, you know, it's a drama. But I just think for her to break out in that sweet aria after she just murdered somebody is so cool. It was unexpected. I know it's very unexpected, but I love that song. I love Protector for obvious reasons. And Levi's Gene. I mean, I could go on and on. I live with that record, and I'm telling you, it is—I'm not saying it because it's my daughter, but it's a masterpiece. It really is. Which song is it Protector or My Rose? That's your granddaughter Rumi's lullaby.

17:34Protector. That's her lullaby. She did that years ago, too. So she doesn't talk baby talk anymore, but she did it because some of these songs are like, you know, three and four years old. Wow. So you've been hearing them percolating. I've been hearing them a long time, yeah.

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18:24Tina, I am a big fan. I'm always sort of mortified by my own mother's social media presence, but I'm a big fan of your social media presence. You are? Yes, she's crazy. You're much better at it than she is. I'm crazy, too. Don't you see me actually pushing the wrong buttons? You're pushing good buttons. You're standing up for your team. It's so funny because, you know how many times I've liked something that was negative about my own children? because if I'm busy and I'm going through the thing, I'm like, ooh, there's Beyonce with so-and-so. I like that. And then the fans come back and say, Miss Tina, please erase that because you're liking some negative post.

19:08I mean, that's what happens to 70-year-olds on social media. It's true. I'm always screwing up. I'm doing voice and I'm country, so my words come out all wrong and I might have. Yesterday I was sending a message and I was trying to say eyes because I was looking for one of my Schiaparelli necklaces and I said it's got a lot of asses on it. And the person sent me back and they were like, Miss Tina, there you go again because I am that's what the thing heard because I'm, you know, my accent is thick. Wait, so you do your Instagram comments voice activated? Yeah, I just most of the time I just do them like that.

19:51Incredible. Sounds kind of smart. Why don't I go back, though? Because I know that it doesn't understand what I'm saying, and it's got crazy stuff. And my son-in-law, Jay, will say, listen, if you're going to read somebody, at least spell your words right. Don't misspell your words, Mom. You can't do that. You can't take your time and go over and spell check your stuff. And I'm like, I don't have time for that. People expect it from me. And I'm hitting the wrong buttons. Do your grandkids ever help you? Blue used to help me. Every once in a while, I'll get a call from Blue and she'll say, Grandma, that's really whack what you just did.

20:33That's really whack. You should delete that. Really, you should delete that. And do you listen? No. I'm like, girl, I'm on to the next thing. And all of the comments are like, there you go again, Miss Tina. Be more careful. You know, these are, they help me out. One of the things I love about your social media presence, though, is that you are really good about sticking up for your kids and the grandchildren. You know, what inspires you to do that on social media? Well, I'm a protector of my kids. And I just feel like that's my job. You know, that's my job. And some things are so unfair because what's unfair about social media and what's so terrible about it, you know, I love it and I love what it can do for people.

21:20But the downside is that someone can just make up something and say anything they feel like saying and put it on there. And, you know, my kids are always like, Mama, don't just ignore that. But at some point it gets to the point where I'm just like, I'm sorry, this is enough. It's enough. You know, because imagine being a mother and somebody's lying on your kid. It's hard to watch. Of course. And Jules, your grandson, he is now a model as of a few months ago. We did a great photo profile on him on Vogue.com. I saw it. It was wonderful. He was so fabulous. And I just want to know what it's like to see another member of the family sort of entering a professional arena of public.

22:08I love it because Jules has always been a fashion kid. Really? Yeah, he's always been obsessed with fashion. And he watches the runway shows to see the clothes. But I think he said, hmm, I like this. And I think he's going to be great at it. You know, he's really serious about it right now. And I have to say, there was this amazing moment at the end of New York Fashion Week where everyone was, I was like getting into bed. and suddenly my phone just exploded. And it was like, everyone's at the Luar show. Beyonce has arrived. And I was like, well, I guess I'm not going to bed. It shook the entire week.

22:48It really did. And so you attended the Luar show, which was in Bushwick. It was not, you know, in midtown Manhattan. You really made a trek. You, Solange, Beyonce, do you often do like a family outing to a fashion show? That was pretty rare. And it was because it was our baby. And so we all had to be there. But did he ask you guys to go? Did he know you were all coming? Oh, we told him we were coming. You know, we're there to support. Ride or die. It was interesting because Solange was like, I'm not sitting with y 'all. And we were like, please come and sit with us. She was like, nope, I'm not going to do it.

23:28I'm going to be over in the back somewhere in the corner in the dark because she, you know, She's like, it's too much hoopla. And I knew it would be, but it was worth it. It was really worth it. I was so proud of him. What was it like seeing him walk for the first time? Oh, God, we were grinning from ear to ear. We couldn't stop smiling. And he did really well. You know, we didn't know because I would try to get him to, I said, come on, Jules, demonstrate your walk. And he's like, no, Grandma. So, you know, I didn't know what to expect, but he walked out there looking like a model. And then the next week he was zipped off to Versace's show in Milan, and Donatello was so sweet to him.

24:10There were second shows to walk in. Yeah. Boo also performed on stage at Renaissance, which I loved. I remember when she came on stage, I was at the New York show, the Jersey one, and literally the crowd erupted in screens. What was it like seeing her do that? It was the best. every night her dad and me would get on this platform out there and we would just be screaming our heads off like with no shame at all just like blue and um it was great because it was a great lesson for her too because she was only supposed to do it one time and her mom finally agreed to let her do it because she'd be in rehearsals practicing with them every day and then um She was going to do it one time.