Nicolas Ghesquière—"Fashion Needs Aesthetic Danger"

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps and today is our very last daily fashion week episode of the season. From Chimina Kamali's four-letter word, that's boho, to Julian De Sina on what's next for Rabban, we've had an incredible group of talents this week. And so, of course, we're ending the week with a giant. Today on the show, Nicolas Ghesquière talks about his decade at Louis Vuitton. We discussed where he thinks fashion is heading, what it was like to be at Jean-Paul Gaultier as a young designer, and what's next for him. Here's a hint. It has to do with designing for film. Here's my conversation with the one and only Nicolas Ghesquière.

0:49Nicolas! Hi, how are you? Bonjour! Bonjour! Ça va? Ça va, très bien, merci. And you, Nicolas, how are you? I'm doing well. I just got to Milan a couple of hours ago. Oh, that's it. I was wondering where you were around the world. Well, thank you, Nicolas, for taking the time to do this. I know you are in prep mode for your show. You're probably reluctant to say too much, but maybe you could share a little bit about what's been on your mind as you have prepared this season. Yes. You want me to talk about the show? Wow, that's good. That's kind of a preview, a rehearsal for a preview, right? Yes.

1:29Okay. It's a season when I was thinking about traveling in time again. And you know how much with LV, this is one of our important topics. You know, this is something that is so attached to the history of the house, this idea of how the history of Louis Vuitton has traveled in time and has been next to so many people, explorators, race car racers, different people that were discovering the world and still. So I would say there's a trip going on. And there is also, yeah, a time travel. I had the wish of expressing a certain renaissance in the show in different ways. So I will just say that and I will let you appreciate the expression of this renaissance.

2:31probably after 10 years at LV, I guess, to think about what is it to start a new chapter. It's probably a reason why I wanted also to express that. Yeah. I remember that first show of yours very well. And one of the things that still touches me to this day is that handwritten note that you said about how important it was for you to be fresh here and starting anew and writing a new story. What do you remember about that first show? Oh, the emotion, the intensity. It was, of course, very emotional. It was also very warm. I remember how people were very welcoming in the house and in the audience.

3:20I remember a lot of joy, a lot of stress, of course. When you speak for the first time with such an important house and you reveal what was going to be, I did reveal what was going to the new vocabulary for LV, the pressure was very high. And in the same time, it was very clear for me what I wanted to say about a certain functionality in the silhouette, a certain color card, a new code that I was developing that I wanted to last. It was not just a coup of the season. It was just not like something for six months. It was something that was going to be there for a long time. And hopefully it did.

4:09It's what is so important with that first show is I think we were all very clear about what we wanted to say about who was going to be the new LV woman or LV girls at that time. And this consistency is important in fashion. You know, it's important to be relevant in the season, but the consistency in time is even more important. So the memory of that show gave me that comfort, if I can say today. Even if it was not, not everyone liked that first show, to be honest. And I understand, you know, why? Because when you arrive and you develop and you work with a new territory, it's also absolutely normal that people can take time also to want to be a part of it.

5:05So it felt very good to also feel that we were going in the right direction. That's interesting. Of course, I covered your collections for many years at Balenciaga, too. And I guess what you're saying is that people noticed a break from what you had been doing at your previous house to what you started to do at Vuitton. And it takes people a minute for the eye to adjust, right? Of course. And it is natural. You know, it is natural. Somehow your style is a very interesting exercise. And when you marry a new house, you're not going to, you know, you keep your style. You keep who you are. But, of course, the story of the house, and again, the history was to be written.

5:57It was so important to create a big break. And my break was very short. I had like not even six months of real break. So I missed two seasons to prepare LV. And of course, it was kind of a reset for me in many ways. Well, I wanted to go back and talk about your design history. The Run Through, which is our podcast, has a lot of young listeners. And so I think there are some people who only know you since your Vuitton days. But I go back further. I remember Balenciaga. I remember my first Nicolas Jesquier show. It was that Callahan show you did in New York. Remember that? And of course, you know, one of your earliest jobs in fashion was for Jean-Paul Gaultier.

6:44So can you sort of synopsize your career for us? Well, it's a career that probably is, I don't know if it could be the same today. I started very, very young. I was not working at 14. It would have been totally illegal, but I was doing a lot of internships since I was 14. So I have the feeling now that I always had a, you know, I was always living surrounded by this world. And my passion drove me and my passion made me meet fantastic people that were so supportive and again, so helpful. I ended up at 18 year old working for Jean Paul Gaultier, which was the dream, which was a dream. It was a dream come true.

7:32It's where I really wanted to be at that time. And it's where I wanted to learn. And the aesthetic of Jean Paul is so brilliant that I was really dreaming. I did everything to integrate his studio. So after a few internships, I ended up at Jean Paul Gaultier. and I stayed for a couple of years. It was the most incredible experience to watch Jean-Paul and the studio worked on the collections. Clearly, Jean-Paul was a big game changer. He changed the way we look at ready-to-wear today. He changed the way women dress today and people in general dress today with his very free approach of mixing culture, identities, genders, He was an example because of his style, but also because of his spirit and his very progressist state of mind.

8:35And I believe that it's what was so attractive when I was young. And it's what attracted me to be a part of his studio and his fashion world.

8:50We're going to take a quick break. The run-through will be back in just a moment.

9:21can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

9:45And we're back. I want to ask you one more question about being 14. that, as you say, as a young age to start interning, how did you know fashion was what you wanted to do at 14? What experiences as a younger person sort of indicated this was for you? Well, we're talking before social media, obviously. So this is the magazine, the press, the print, of course. My mom's magazine, going to the, you know, the local library and look at magazines, books. It's what I remember. And I think every teen does that. It's like I was transforming everything into fashion. History, when I was learning history, I was thinking what would be, how it was related to fashion and costume.

10:37When I was, everything was driving me back to fashion, strangely. And it was very exciting because it was exciting my curiosity also. And I think it was also TV at the time, of course. You know, it was a moment again, we're talking like beginning of the 80s. There was a lot of fashion on TV in France. So to see the creator at the time, which is Azedin Alaya, Thierry Mugler, Jean-Paul Gaultier, Claude Montana, Comme des Garçons, was starting to show in Paris. All that was also on TV. So I didn't find my access limited when I was young. I was not living in Paris. I was living in a very, very small city.

11:27But my curiosity was balancing the distance with Paris, where things were happening and where I definitely wanted to go. so there's so many things that you have to think about as you're preparing a show and you know the message that you want to tell for a season in balancing creativity but also the business side or your your role as a leader and i just wonder if you could talk a little bit about your day-to-day in the lead-up to the shows i mean what how do you split your day all of these responsibilities that you have? Well, discipline is necessary. It's something very, you have to be very organized and pragmatic too.

12:16And by opposition, you have to be very free and try to forget the position you are talking about. I would not consider myself as a leader. I would consider working for a house that has values, that leads our industry. but I think if you consider yourself as a leader in fashion you're dead you're not going to survive I think if you don't honestly with a lot of honesty put yourself in a certain aesthetic danger I would say that this way every season you're not playing the game of fashion you have to be able and ready to show a part of yourself every season and express something that might not be appreciated.

13:11If you are too confident and you think you are already in such an unquestionable position, it's never a good formula. So my spirit hasn't very changed, honestly, since I first started to work in fashion. My position has changed and I'm very grateful, of course, for everything that happened and all the people that did support and are still supporting me. But the feeling every season is the same. It's not starting all over again, obviously. And that's also what is beautiful about being at LV. It's all this vocabulary, all the new classics that we did developed in the past and in the present that are very making me feel more secure.

14:03They are making it for sure. But also it's interesting to make a proposition that will touch people, that will create a new emotion. Not everyone is able to wear the clothes or the bags or the shoes, but they're able to share that emotion with us, to feel, I think, that something can bring, it's not only about newness, it's about a feeling that is fresh for you. I think it's what everyone is looking for in fashion. It's that moment when you're like, oh wow, I haven't seen that this way before. Even if I have the feeling we've seen everything, I've never seen that this way. I've never felt that because that combination, that constriction, that color, that story, that show makes me feel that.

14:59And it's what I'm looking forward every season is to create that emotion only. All the work of doing the clothes, doing the shows, to designing, the goal at the end is to share that emotion with people. That's, I think, probably the most important reason why I'm doing that. Yeah. Well, that's definitely why we keep coming back. And I love that expression, aesthetic danger. That's so great. So Nathan Heller just did a great profile of you in a recent issue of Vogue magazine, and you gave him this quote that has resonated with a lot of us who are your generation, which includes me. And you said that fashion used to be for weird people.

15:52so much has changed over our you know time in fashion as you say social media but can you talk about those those years of watching alaya and mugler and and what was different about about fashion then than now well today you know what is kind of cool it's like everyone is an expert in fashion and everyone has a voice and I enjoyed that very much. At that time again, you know, this is, we had to wait for a review the day after to see how the collection was appreciated or not. I'm like, fashion shows were much smaller. It was a little world by itself. And I have to say it was quite fun, you know, because it's hard to put the name on it because Because it was not intellectual, but it was kind of a certain state of mind, a certain spirit.

16:49And of course, it was also a place where acceptance, you said that acceptance was already there. Being different, having a different sexual orientation, you know, everything that we know that the beautiful values of fashion can bring about, you know, evolution, acceptance, love of the others. everything was already there, except the scale was smaller than today, I would say. Let's say it in a better way. It was a place where you felt more protected at the time because people were much more ready to accept a new world. And somehow, I'm glad this new world exists in a larger scale today. I believe that's why also fashion became so successful.

17:39So many people recognize their differences and there is beautiful unity with all those differences. And I believe that moment was the raising of this movement somehow. Well, I know that you recently bought a house in Los Angeles and I know you enjoy spending a lot of time there. Do you think that California is influencing your work more than it used to in the past? Sure. I mean, first, my partner is from San Diego. So, you know, when you live with someone, you are obviously inspired by where he's coming from, what's his story, what is where he grew up, you know, as simple as that. And he did grow up in California.

18:30I always love California and LA, But of course, to meet Drew was a big reveal somehow. It was the old package. It was Drew and California. So I went for it. And yeah, there is a spirit that I really love. Another thing that you've talked about, sort of LA related, is someday possibly designing costumes for film. Yes. What would be a dream project? Oh my God, there's so many dream projects. I talked about science fiction many times, and obviously this is something, it's really a dream. I would love to collaborate with a director on a science fiction movie. Historical movie would be amazing too.

19:24Well, actually, it's going to happen. and I can't say more about it but I can give you a little scoop that we are working on a great project so I'm very excited it's starting, it's happening so I will let you know more when I can Vogue wants to know first that's great, how exciting right now in movies, in the opera even in pop music Divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe.

20:15It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. So I wanted to sort of open up a little bit and talk about fashion more broadly. You are a designer who is a very forward thinker and sort of opening up the camera lens. Where do you think fashion is going? And, you know, 2025, we're thinking about spring 2025 now. What's the zeitgeist? What's the vibe for you? I can express where I wish it should go.

21:02Tell me where you want it to go. Okay, where I wish it should go is to make sure our industry is becoming the most sustainable possible. That's, I think, the criteria. That's a very big criteria for the future of fashion. To be relevant, we have to be the most sustainable possible. This craziness about disposable clothes has to stop. And we all have responsibility about it. I'm not pointing at anyone. I'm just saying we're proposing so much all the time. I think we need to be our own editors in terms of proposition. And we need also to make sure what we produce will not keep destroying the world.

21:55At LV, we are making actions and there is rules that are very important, like not doing sales. They never did sales at LV. The caliber of our production, what we produce is what we sell. so there is of course the resources there is many many important questions but we have this responsibility and i think the future of fashion depend from that so to answer your i can answer your question aesthetically i can try and tell you that i wish that creativity will be first and it will always be essential. But I believe that really the way we do things and how many things we do and the way the last is going to be where fashion should go.

22:52So that's the way I see things. That's such a great answer. And it's all of our responsibilities to address that, right? Because as consumers, we also have to sort of, we have to adjust the dial of, you know, desire and consumption and want and sort of get the balance, get the balance right. And it's very difficult. I mean, we all, you know, have desire and we, you know, for things and there is beautiful things, but it's true that luxury should be something you keep or you transmit or you sell because when you invest in luxury you want to make sure the values will grow instead of you know going down and so this is very important to to protect those values it's what we do at lv it's what many many many people do but it's true that we have to encourage people to keep their clothes, to wear them again, to transform them if they want, you know, custom them.

24:01Like there is so many ways instead of like buying disposable clothes and then sending them somewhere that is destroying the world. And it's a huge, huge question now. In luxury, you know, there is a natural way of approaching things, but this is important that we contribute to this evolution. Well, lots of people say that the biggest luxury is time. So you didn't have to do another collection and another collection after that. I'm curious what you would do with your time. Is there a special trip or a journey that you haven't done yet that you really would like to do? Oh my God. I'd have no idea.

24:48Probably. I think I leave with the rhythm of collection since 33 years, 34 years. I just leave with that clock, like a show every six months first, and now it's every three months. So it's almost impossible for me to answer and to mentally and almost physically try to imagine how I would feel without a show. It's very interesting. Would you go to space? Would you go to space when they start sending people up there? Oh, yeah, I would. Yeah. You would? That's something I would love to do. Yeah, of course. Wishing it's not a final trip, but, you know. No, I guarantee you come back. I would go to space for sure.

25:38I would discover the world more and discover people. Probably it's what I miss, spending a lot of time here working on fashion, on luxury. But I'm so very lucky. We can travel the world, discover people. So it's very fulfilling, you know, to do what I do. So I probably would, I don't know, maybe, I really don't know. Probably something closest to nature. Probably finding a way to be closest to nature. Well, I just hiked the Grand Canyon this summer and I have to recommend it if you're looking for a trip. See, it's something I never did. So that's one. It's on our list with Drew. So that's what he's preparing for me, apparently.

26:29So, OK, I take your tips. I take your recommendation. I have often written about how influential you are, how so many designers have looked at your work over the years and found inspiration in it. And I wonder if there is some secret book or painting that you haven't talked about or something else that you go back to that influences you. oh um well that would be probably listening to francois hardy you know the french singer that unfortunately passed away recently um i have memories of my mother was uh always listening to francois hardy and um later in my career i was lucky enough to dress her and to collaborate with her and uh it's something that uh it's not a book it's not a movie it's it's her voice it's the story she's telling on her song and i remember probably listening to her song made me understand a certain uh part of femininity uh a certain part of uh her sensibility was very important in in how I define my aesthetic later.

27:44You know, there is a, there's romantism and in the same time, there is something quite strong. And I think it's also a beautiful definition of community somehow, you know, a great sensibility and a lot of strengths. And I think it's what I took from listening to Françoise Hardy when I was young and I still, when I listened to her. that's beautiful thank you thanks to you it's so good to talk to you and i i'm looking forward to your show thank you nicole it was really great and i'm looking forward to see you too have fun in milan merci i see you in paris

28:33that's it for the show see you next week

28:42The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Joanna Solitaroff. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of global audio.

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