Paul Mescal and Josh O’Connor on Adele, Fan Letters, and Learning to Pose on the Red Carpet

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Chermanadi. and today we have a special bonus episode i have to say i'm pretty jealous and so is the entire office because chloe and vogue's features editor marley marris got the chance to talk to actors paul mescal and josh o 'connor it's like a internet boyfriend sandwich um they're obviously worked on the film the history of sound in the film they play love interests who after the first world war are determined to record their lives and music. So they talked about working together, how Paul is learning to play the guitar for the upcoming Beatles film, which I personally am very excited for, and about Josh's love of ceramics and gardening, which I'm surprised to hear about, and their posing strategy on the red carpet.

0:55You can see a shortened version, but visually hilarious video of their conversation on Vogue.com and on Vogue's YouTube channel. Okay, here's Chloe and Marley's conversation with Paul and Josh. Enjoy.

1:14Hi, Vogue. I'm Chloe Mal. I'm Marley Marius. And we are filming a very special episode of The Run-Through. We are here with the stars of the new film, The History of Sound. Welcome, gentlemen. Paul and Josh, will you introduce yourselves to our unsuspecting audience? I'm Paul Maskell. My name is Josh O 'Connor. And together. Together we are friends. Together we are friends. Yeah. When did you two meet? Because I heard there was a nice meet cute about when you first met each other over Zoom. Yeah. We did. During lockdown, I watched as we all did, normal people, and loved it. And Paul and I share an agent in America.

2:00And I reached out to him, reached out to my agent, and said, can I... There's this kid. There's this kid. Actually, I did. Did you say this kid? Have I told you this bit? I wrote to my agent to say, I've just watched this thing, Normal People. And this guy is incredible. And he was like, yeah, we know. Anyway, but I said, I'd love to talk to him. And so then we had a Zoom. Yeah. and it was so what did you think when you were told that this elder actor who's calling you a kid was to do I was a long admirer of Josh long, long, long I'm not that old I know I'd seen it was either in second year or third year of drama school I saw God's Own Country with my friend and I was blown away blown away by it And still am whenever I've seen that film three times and I think it's like such staggering work.

2:59And I very recently before I got this email from Josh, I'd seen a film called Only You, which I don't know if a huge amount of people have seen, but it's really spectacular work. And it's like the kind of film that I love where it's just essentially a two-hander and it's like kitchen sink drama. And it's just about the acting, really. And I loved that. So when he reached out, I think it's also like, it's a testament to who he is. And I think we share this feeling where it's like, it's an industry that can be typically quite competitive. But I've always felt that like, I'm highly competitive, but it's always felt redundant to me in this industry.

3:40And because it's totally subjective. It's like, I think it makes it all a lot more palatable if you can admire somebody else's work and not feel like in competition. And I felt that off Josh straight away. And that's when we, but then it was COVID and we didn't really see each other until the stuff that summer, the following summer. Yeah. How did your friendship sort of deepen during the process of making this movie? Well, I think it's like, you know, we really were like proper friends before. And then it's like Paul says, there's this thing, you know, we have a friendship outside of this industry.

4:22But when it comes to the, you know, a lot of what we talk about is we both have very similar tastes in filmmakers and movies and performances and actors. One of the exciting things about working with any actor, truthfully, is like just witnessing how someone else works. And you're constantly learning from other actors and their processes. And Paul, I think for us, it was just like kind of, I just remember being really excited. I was talking to another friend of mine, another actor friend of both of ours before I was going to start this movie. And I just remember saying, like, I'm so excited to see how Paul does it.

5:00But what was really interesting about this is like. And what did you learn? Well, what was interesting is that neither of us have, I don't think, a set process in that way. But I think what was interesting is that we are both actors who I think, and you can see it in Paul's performances, like it doesn't just happen. that you're giving a part of yourself, you know, with Paul specifically, like something of Paul is left behind in that character. And that was interesting to me. But I think because of that and because of the subject matter of this film and how moving the film is, but how deep those feelings of love and grief are, we actually found ourselves being very light with it.

5:47and by light I mean cheeky chat. Cheeky chat. A couple of cheeky chats. But we were so, there was like a lot of like giggles in between. But I think it was out of like a necessity because it was what we, the subject matter was so. But I think it's a wonderful example of like, I love how surprising this job can be because I felt the same when I watched, I watched God's Own Country and I was like, and I think it's an important distinction to make that I don't think all work that is worthy is painful to do but I also do appreciate when I see tough subject material being engaged with sincerely and with attention as I've seen with Josh's work and I could just tell like I knew enough about acting that point where I was just like that's really hard work like you're going to the like well with that and you're coming and it's not that like I don't necessarily know but like if you leave something behind or if you don't but it's just like you're taking a kind of risk with just your feelings for like a period of time and you're extending that you're kind of sitting in a well of discomfort for kind of an undisclosed because it doesn't end when the film ends it kind of ends when it decides it's going to be finished but i i loved how knowing that he that the work that he produced and that I feel like I work similarly it's in terms of like fun and levity that three weeks that we were together was the height of that for me across like my entire career and it's weird because the film is so painful and or to me that relationship is like the centre point of like somebody's life but the truth is it's very elegiac yeah yeah it's not a cheeky it's not a cheeky it's not a cheeky those two are not cheeky chaps those two are not famously not cheeky chaps but it's not like that i guess the reason it's so painful is because the time they have together is so joyful yeah so it was okay that was yeah well i have to say marley and i went to a screening of the film last week and it was one of those sort of midtown screening rooms where it's all grumpy film critics and we were both sort of sobbing at the end and it was not really the vibe of the rest of the room.

8:04We were kind of like, you guys good. You guys good? But we were both, I was so moved by the film and so excited to see it. And it really has, I think, stayed with both of us afterward. But I was wondering what it was like preparing for these roles and how you even began that process. Well, first of all, thank you. We came across this film at the same time in 2020. So it's been like five years. And definitely the longest it's been for me from like reading something to getting it done. It's the same for you. But weirdly, kind of like, I'm quite impatient. So there was like a part of it that was awful waiting to make this.

8:48But also it was great from a preparation side of things that you could kind of like have this project slow, like slow burning throughout everything. And I think it's something that is kind of meditative in tone. And so it benefited from that kind of slow boil of getting made. We also, like, because of the length of time between reading that short story initially and then chatting to Oliver and that big chunk of five years, that was like so many things. You know, Paul and I were already friends. And so whenever I saw Paul, we would talk about the movie. and I just feel like sort of in a weird way like you know in normal circumstances maybe maybe there's a year of like next this you know this time next year I'm going to be making that movie and so it's kind of percolating oftentimes like while you're doing other projects and then as it comes closer there's really a sort of for me anyway there's usually a sort of in an ideal world like a two to three month period before the film where you're like sole focus is on prepping this character ideally we'd have longer but that's usually how it works out with this film i think just because it was so present for such a long time by the time we got to sort of december november december just before we started filming in january i just remember being like i'm looking at the script sitting down with the script and feeling like it was all there already yeah and i i guess that is because we were sort of having all these conversations so It wasn't one that was like, obviously it came at the back of a strike.

10:23So the time was condensed beforehand. So, but it was one of those where I did similar to you'd sit and be like, oh, I know these people. Like I'm not worried about getting onto set and kind of being confronted with questions and not having answers. What was your relationship to folk music like before this film? I feel like the folk song in the film is pretty close to a lot of like traditional Irish music, like different but similar. and a lot of the traditional folk songs that we hear in American folk songs are actually kind of taken from this the sound of the music of immigrants that came in um so there's lots of similarities to my ear to Irish music and the kind of Shanno singing that you hear in Irish pubs is um kind of tone that so I I love that kind of music what was really nice actually was learning about there's so much music in this film that I didn't know before and that we learnt by doing and but yeah I was a big fan of folk music for a long time did you already know the piano because you play the piano a bit in that movie I do not I did not know how to play the piano I knew you had to play one Adele song and which one it must be Sapphire to the Rain it's sort of it's kind of fast I think it is I think it is that one it's Ainstee Josh Oh, shit.

11:40I want to do such a big chorus. Yeah, I'll try and I... To the rain, to the rain. On my own. Yeah, I think it actually is that one. Or Rolling in the D. It's something that goes... Turning tables. I knew you had to play that song. Actually, a section of that song. Of course. And then that was it. And so then I learnt for this. Yeah. and was there like vocal training involved or not really for this actually a lot of the vocal training was about like D training we both went to drama school and like you do sing oh that's funny yeah it's so much about like we worked with an amazing do you guys know the singer Sam Amadon he's like a folk singer he's brilliant music is phenomenal and I'd listened to him before but he sings in that style and it's like he would often say just like put no effect on the voice and let the song be the song.

12:38So it's all like kind of straight intonation. And if you are deciding to accent something, it's with intention. Like it's not to sound pretty for the sake of it sounding pretty. Yeah. Did you take note from any musicians in your life or go to any festivals that you were, I don't know, I saw pictures of you at Glastonbury. Has this changed your relationship to music in general? I've always loved music like I'm always jealous of musicians that I know I think there's like jealous and sometimes not like I like sometimes I'm jealous of the fact that they don't need permission to work they can sit down at a piano and feel creatively engaged but oftentimes if they're like successful they're like confronted with the fact that when their music comes out they're confronted with questions about their personal life and I'm like oh that's we're lucky that like when we're working yeah true things that are autobiographical to us generally are hidden under the veil of a character so i'm like jealous of them in certain instances i'm not but i've always loved music and and what's on your spotify right now what's on my spotify an artist called jake minch do you know what genre is this like folk key singer songwriting style he's amazing he's like 21 from LA and amazing lyricist what about you Adele

14:09Adele no I just gotta leave the song someone like you have you heard of it I actually uh have been going I've been revisiting a lot of like my teenage indie years. Say more. Yes, say more. Diving back into like Beirut. Oh. And Laura Marling. We were just talking about Laura Marling because I wrote her a love letter when I was 16. Two from two. Did she reply? She did not. And Adele. She's got, what's the song, that song For You by, For You. Oh. Do you know the song For You by Laura Marling? So good. It's so beautiful. I know lots of her. It's, that's a top five song for me of all time it might be for me it's amazing it's very romantic romantic yeah what did you say in your love letter I can't remember what I said but I I square it's so great it's so great in the last two interviews brought this up and also like happy to talk about it like clearly so delighted I'm just like just give me that chance you don't even need to say say more to Josh you're just like yeah Well, they pressed me.

15:21They pressed me. They twisted me. Yeah. I can't remember what I wrote, but I think it was along the lines of, like, your music means a lot to me, and here's a leaf. And I pushed, pressed a sort of an autumnal leaf. Oh, my God. Oh, wow. I was 16. I was 16. Okay. That actually is better. But Laura, if you will. Please. Reply.

15:53The run-through will be back in just a moment with Paul Muscao and Joshua Connor from History of Sound.

16:12You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

16:41Paul, do you play any instruments? I do now. He does now. I do now. No, I played a little bit of piano, but I'm obviously learning music for the Beatles. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. How is that music learning process going? It's great. Like, Paul McCartney's famously left-handed. I'm not left-handed. So that's a challenge. But it's such a wonderful gift that we get nearly 30 now and getting to learn these new skills. I assume it's healthy for my brain to be learning something left-handed. God, that sounds very hard. it is pretty difficult it's such a but it's such a weird thing that i'm having to explain to people it's like what's your job today i'm like i'm going in and trying to learn like bar chords and the opposite hand it's cool it's like wow yeah what is that is that an intensive schedule already in terms of it's it's like training training wow yeah is there a beatles group chat already there is a The Beatles group chat, yeah.

17:42Is it named after like a Beatles album? No. It's a really boring title. Beatles chat. I'm pretty sure it's called Four Cheeky Chops. I feel so betrayed. They're not the only cheeky chops. I could be wrong on this, but Four Cheeky Chops. But I'm your cheeky chop. No, you're my cheeky chop. What is your number one Paul McCartney song? Oh, it changes. all the time. At the moment, I'm like obsessed with Michelle. But it literally changes. Josh, what's your Beatles song of choice? I don't know. God. Who doesn't know a Beatles song? Who loves Beatles? Can't miss. Anyone. Anyone. Hey, dude. I guess. Banger.

18:36Banger. No, My Guitar. While My Guitar Gently. That's a great one. Yeah. Thank God for that. Nailed it. Very good. Oh, good. You're quite creative in other ways. A ceramicist, yes? Well, he is a ceramicist. Potter. What's a ceramicist? I would say Harry Potter. Potter. So revealing. You're a ceramicist, just a Harry Potter fan. No, no, just I like the films. No, no, no. Let me try to roll. It's been a huge misunderstanding. I don't know where the corn barb is. Yeah, even pot is rich. I like making pots. But I'm certainly not a ceramicist. You sound like Winnie the Pooh. I'm sure it's more than that.

19:22No, he makes gorgeous. Yeah, well, I have been known. I was very charmed in Gabby Wood's lovely profile she wrote for Vogue that you described your background as being an inherited hippie and that now you're gardening a lot and beekeeping. What are you growing at the moment at home? Okay, good question. At the moment, well, I've just had a good crop of courgettes. What do you call courgettes? Zucchini. Zucchini. Zucchini. Rhubarb. I've got two very brilliant fig trees. Oh. Really produced this year because we had mad heat waves. Oh, okay. They really produced this year, guys. They came in. They came in.

20:03They came in. Apples. Really produced. it really came through um thanks guys uh yeah that's what i've got josh is the oldest soul that i know actually we've already discussed that like i'm lying yeah it's true but it's so gorgeous he's like seeing like the privilege of being in josh's home like in the countryside last year and I was like, it's just like Josh in a nutshell. It's just like in the garden, gorgeous pots and little ceramics. And yeah, you're a happy boy when you're in that environment. We went swimming in the lake. A lake. So nice. So lovely. Do you still, Josh, have the DHL camper van that you traveled with?

20:53No, guys, terrible news. It's not great. I do. I do have it. But I'm selling it. I'm in the process of selling it. I'll tell you for why, guys. It's an ancient. it's an ancient vehicle and it was every time I'd take it out I'd break down that's so small I know and it luckily you can obviously sleep in it so you know if you break down at night you stay in the vehicle but it had to go it had to go it's on its way out hopefully it'll go to a happy maybe maybe you can get a new one at some point maybe maybe you just have to like you just have to like mourn this I have to see this through see this through yeah I want to ask about the red carpet mastery that both of you seem to enjoy.

21:38I mean, I do feel like it's nice when people seem like they're having fun getting dressed up, because not everyone does. Is this something that's evolved over time, or have you always loved dressing up? If you had seen the clothes I would wear in secondary school, it's definitely evolved. I think, or not to speak on your behalf, I feel very lucky to work with, I work with Felicity Kaye and I talk to other actors who are friends and sometimes they feel an obligation or that they are put in clothes. And I feel very much the opposite with Felicity. I'm sure you do with Harry too, that I think it's a really important thing because then you just end up feeling like you're on some sort of parade the whole time.

22:28and it's all lost on me that like it's so it's such an amazing privilege to have like these fashion houses go away and make these things specifically for you to wear it's like a really privileged thing to get to experience i think it's also it's like a balance because it's because those those events are sort of like they're really tricky because ultimately i think people think that actors are like um maybe that they enjoy that spotlight at those events and those things The reality is that, like, most actors are doing it. Well, I just do what they do for different reasons. But a lot of the time we're hiding behind these characters.

23:05And so it can feel quite exposing being yourself in a weird way. And so the advantage of having, whilst it's also creatively kind of fun and interesting to sort of, like, put something together with Harry or Felicity. it's also about like curating a character that isn't necessarily you and that can be quite like quite a lifeline actually in those situations oh 100 % do you guys feel like you have like an alter ego on the red carpet yeah no because it's like I always cringe sorry do you know when you see the videos of the photographs being taken and you see yourself and you see other actors and you see some people are so good at having their picture taken.

23:57I don't think I'm great at having my picture taken. So when I see a video of the picture getting taken Do you want to know this is really bad? It's shocking. It's so and you see them you see the actors like lock in and they're like Do you know when they do that like mini two step? It's the little show. Whenever you watch on an award show and it's being filmed I feel so bad for people because you're seeing it. I had a terrible You're not supposed to see how the sausage was made. I had a terrible Terrible experience of this. When we were doing, we had the Challengers premiere in London. My heart rate's gone through the roof, thank you.

24:28Yeah. I turned, I was kind of exhausted at the time. It was like, whatever. I turned up to this premiere. We'd just gone from Australia to LA to boom, boom, boom. And then we'd land in London. And it's the first time I'd had one of those big premieres, Leicester Square, big billboards and all this stuff. And then my family, I invited my family to come. Oh, boy. so I'm getting out the car and there's that bit where there's like a wall of photographers yeah it's insane and I was stood in front of the wall of photographers doing that trying to do like they're trying to get into like positions like trying to like get comfy and they're like can you give us something else and you're like no not really like a little smile and it was like awful finger gums yeah and there's just like all this noise and flashing photography and everything and then I caught sight of my parents and my brothers and something about seeing my family in this environment which felt like a threat and then seeing my beautiful gorgeous family who are like beautiful, kind, soulful people I was just like and then they're photographing me as I'm weeping I was like this and they're photographs of me just like with tears and they also it's very shouty it's very shouty it's more shouty in America than it's oh in America it's worse interesting way shouty yeah way shoutier but not way shoutier it's not although I think it can at the Cannes Film Festival there are a few of those French photographers who are a little bit like they shout and then they're like kind of livid like you I think it's so mad they get really mad the first time I went this is good the first time I went warning FYI you're going to love this one it better be good the first time I went to the Met you're obviously like people work so hard to make these outfits that are like and the whole whole point of the people making these outfits is to get that photograph on the stairs and I'm I'm waiting in line and you're not you don't really have like your publicist or the or Harry or anyone there with you so you're just waiting in this line and I didn't know anyone I'm just standing there standing there I see like an entrance some steps and they go okay Josh off you go and I went thanks very much straight up the stairs, straight in, in I go.

26:50I'm like, this is brilliant. So I'm walking around against the exhibition. I've checked my phone, like 15 missed calls, being like, what happened? I didn't get a single photograph. And then it was a disaster. And when I left early and it was just awful. It's my first, that was my first time. And all that, like months of work. Oh my God. And I just didn't realise. What did they do? They got photos in the end. Well, they said go back out and I was like, I couldn't pass. Oh my God. So then they managed to get someone to come in and take a picture. Shuffle, shuffle. Shuffle, shuffle. But I do want to ask Paul about your shorts.

27:28Is this something you've always worn? Thank you for that question, honestly. Thank God. Seriously, thank God. I was waiting. Yes. Sorry, the question. The question is, have shorts always been a part of your fashion? Always. Okay. But not even, I wouldn't, like, it would be an over, like, I don't consider them, like, they are shorts that I wore from the age of, not the same shorts, but Gaelic football shorts or, like, that's just what Irish boys tend to wear. Happy to promote the agenda of short shorts for boys. I think it's an important evolution in the story of shorts and modern fashion. History of sound, history of shorts.

28:10History of shorts. and the history of shorts no but it's it's not it's not considered past the fact that now I'm I'm like I don't know fucking thing if I just wear but they're always the shorts that I just want to wear gotta be you gotta be you time for a quick break when we're back we play Would You Rather with Paul Mascow and Joshua Connors

29:10Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

29:23All right, we are going to play a game of Would You Rather. Okay. Okay, no worries. Okay, yeah. It's going to be great. We'll do that. I've heard of it. We are also reading these for the first time, so don't judge us for these. if you had the choice to never listen to music ever again or only listen to one song over and over what would it be one song over and over never listen to music ever again oh yeah one song yeah one song what song that's where it gets to talk gotta choose a long one haven't you opinion rhapsody no that one imagine that one over and over I see a little silhouette of a man you're going mad I'm every kind of music I'm out I would wait does it play on loop oh that's a good one oh yeah does it play yeah is it like as in you can only ever listen to that song but you cannot listen to that song you can turn it on or turn it off oh yeah you can turn it off okay yeah I'm just gonna because it's in my head and she's featured heavily today in Laura Marling I'm gonna go for you by Laura Marling yeah nice mine would be Galleonship by Nick Cave minimalism or maximalism Minimalism.

30:37Or maximalism. In context of interior design? That's what I said. Interior design, personal aesthetic, kind of like... Because I find minimalism in interior design a little bit like... Snooze. Is there another context in which you prefer? Is there like a medium-alism? There you go. Not that. Put that one down. Medium-alism. Medium-alism. custom tailoring or off the rack off the rack if you find like an old vintage suit true oh my goodness I'm gonna say custom tailoring yeah that's fair yeah sweet or salty salty salty oh interesting no why did I say that it's not true jolly ranchers jolly ranchers pesky jolly ranchers pesky jolly I'm gonna go sweet yeah for me salty the ideal is what's that nature valley oh cinnamon toast Cinnamon toast crunch.

31:34Cinnamon almond butter. Yeah. That one. Oh, okay, yeah. That would convert me to sweet. Mouth-watering right now. Right now, yeah. Sneakers with everything or always dressed up? Sneakers with everything. Oh, as in you wear them with everything or always dressed up? Are you casual all the time or always dressed up? I guess you're going Bluntstones all the time. Yeah. I think I prefer casual dressing generally than being dressed up. What are you guys wearing today? for example are these do you dress yourselves this I was Harry bought these for me those are cool but I really like them yeah I do too what's the name of the brand Magliano Magliano oh and what about the sweater yeah me too same sick these are my boots they're Blonstones and these are Horace trousers that Felicity found and me and Felicity route around for vintage t-shirts everywhere and try and find them yeah yep red carpet or after party after party who wants to be on a red carpet red carpets are stressful yeah definitely as we've just heard imagine we were like after shitting on red carpets we're like yeah red carpet I love a red carpet sauna or ice bath I'm not great with either of those things well is there medium temperature I actually, okay, the enjoyment of a sauna in the moment, wonderful.

33:10For the experience after ice bath. Ice bath, yeah. No, you do feel good. I think ice bath. I feel like I can't, I get really claustrophobic in a sauna. I do like the feeling after an ice bath, so I would choose an ice bath. Would you rather have your sock falling off inside your shoe or your pants falling down because they're too big? This is a crazy question. That is an insane question. I would not want my trousers falling No thank you I don't want my socks 100 % Pants that are slightly too short Or sleeves that are slightly too long Oh I've got a real It's a real bugbear for me This crop trouser thing I like a crop trouser Depending on the crop And what else you're wearing It's just like Okay so I actually like A crop trouser on other people It's just that For me it's like everywhere It doesn't matter where you look now.

34:00They're everywhere. They're everywhere. There's an epidemic. Then what happened just to like a pair of jeans that reach your shoe? The old reach the shoe days. What happened to that? See what I mean about the old soul thing? I remember the days when people wore trousers. Right down to your ankles. I just wanted to get to the shoe and leave it. One question that I forgot to ask, Josh, that I'm very passionate about, which is the scrapbooks you make for every film. what what is the last page of the history of sound scrapbook ah well actually a little story on the history of sound scrapbook because i it's incomplete oh i know and there's i have a couple my lackey mera scrapbook is also incomplete and like i will complete them but the history of the last page currently that's on the history which is quite funny actually i haven't told you this but the um at the end of history of sound i was going off to do the challengers press tour and i was learning embroidery and uh he's good at that now i've gotten quite good but at the time i was like a bit rubbish but i was following you know those kits you can get and it gives you the outline and you do that as sort of needlepoint stuff i was doing i'd been doing those and this my first attempt at doing a kind of freestyle one was a little mountain i did a little mountain thing.

35:22And that's on the last page of History of Sound. Incredible. Lovely. Well, this is the end. The last page of our Scraps book today. Very well done. That was good. Thank you so much. This was such a treat. Thanks for having us. Good luck on your epic day and thank you for visiting the run through. Thank you very much. Thank you guys.

35:52That's it for this episode of The Run-Through. See you soon.