Rebecca Hall Talks The Beauty, Entering Her Villain Era, and Bette Davis

28:32Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

29:31but it's quite hard. We do see stuff. Actually, when we go to London, we just did a trip for the holidays, and we tend to pack in a ton of theater there and be very cultural. And we just saw a lot of stuff there. What did you see there? Well, we were with our daughter, so we saw a lot of children-based shows. Did you see Paddington? No, we didn't see Paddington. Did you see Paddington? Marley's disappointed. But I'm just really upset about it. Marley's like, I can't believe you let me down. Yeah, I was like, oh no, it's going to be horrible. The way that my timeline is just filled with the bear.

30:04I just, I'm like, now I'm like, in my mind, everyone in London has seen that show, everyone in London has been. No, I saw The Ballet Shoes at the National. Oh. This is great. This is like a really great production. Oh my God. Do you know that book? The Ballet Shoes? The children's book by Noel Streetfield from like the 1930s? No. Not The Red Shoes, the different one? We did actually also see The Red Shoes. Crazy. Just to be confusing. We only saw things with shoes on the title. love them it's good to have a theme yeah honestly yeah but yeah when there's so much theater yeah it organizes it's gonna give you one it organizes things but it's limiting honestly it's very limiting there's not that many i think that's probably it ballet shoes and red shoes was it 12th night we also saw didn't fit into that category did your daughter like 12th night she did she really liked it it's a banger yeah how old is she she's seven okay yeah do you remember obviously yeah you have a theater background do you remember the first thing you saw i don't Just like forever.

31:01No, I think they just had me in a carrier and stuck me in the back row of the stools for whatever they were rehearsing. So I was watching everything. I mean, if listeners don't know, like, yes, you have, you know, your parents are deeply involved in the performing arts in sort of very meaningful ways. Your father was Sir Peter Hall, a very important director, founder of the Royal Shakespeare Company. your mother Maria Ewing was a opera singer. I actually did want to sort of ask a little bit about your relationship to opera. Like as an adult, is that something that you enjoy? Is it something that you listen to at home?

31:39I enjoy it. It's something that I've like had to kind of learn about sort of on my own. It's like not, you know, not something that a lot of people grow up with. Not something that a lot of people find accessible even though I think it has like a lot to offer people and certainly like the Met Opera in New York is like such a gem. but I feel like it's always like fighting for its life. So I'm sort of curious as to like what your sort of relationship to it is. I feel like when it's done well, it can be like the most purely accessible sort of art form that is there. I mean that because it's something about singing on stage in front of people, like sort of accesses everyone's emotional core and just kind of drills right to that place.

32:17Totally. When it works. Totally. And when it doesn't work, it does feel like elitist and strange. Sure. And like, what are they doing? And an endless, endless night. really long. Yeah, so I feel like I was so saturated with it growing up that I feel I have a complicated relationship with it. Like, I don't go home and put on some opera. But now and again, I do think to do that. And I know more about it than, well, I know about it as you would imagine. Sure, sure, sure. But no, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but also my mother didn't listen to it. You know, my mother was kind of funny about it. What kind of music did you listen to at home?

32:53Jazz. Like, solely. that was it and my dad too actually he listened to he listened to a lot of classical music but he loved jazz as well so that was really that was really what i was raised on yeah music wise and that's my sort of go-to comfort now yeah that's so interesting yeah because i've also found that like my the older i'm getting my music taste is just completely merging with my parents my mom's especially like i am listening to what my mom was listening to at my age and you know 1994. Yeah, that's really true. I have the same. I know exactly what you mean. And I'm like, I mean, and I think it was like, I grew up with that music then I rejected it and now it's in a real way.

33:34You've talked also about the tragedy of losing your playlists. Oh, don't bring that up. Sorry. Why would you do that to me? I don't want to reopen that word. I'm sorry. More just... Wait, how do you lose a playlist? I saw that but I was like, what is that? Tell us more. The story is very dark. If you are a person who has UK and US citizenship and lives in both places often for most of their life and ends up in America having made all of their playlists on a UK iTunes account and your bank account doesn't match up with where you are and it shifts and there's some sort of like, you know, cosmic glitch that happens that then reject, reject, reject everything and then you You just wake up and it's all gone and there's no way to bring it back.

34:24I'm so sorry about this. That is really the cost of being a dual citizen that they don't tell you about. They don't tell you. Oh my God. Our colleague in the UK, Liam Hess, recently transitioned over from Spotify to Apple Music not to blow up his spot. Why would he do that? Tell him to be careful. Apple Music is superior. Oh right, you're in Apple Music. Whatever. Go on. Anyways, but he was very upset because it like jumbled all of his playlists. It didn't lose them, but he was like, they're all out of shape, and now I can't even touch this. I'm over all of it. I'm over all the digital everything.

35:00I know. Bring back burning CDs. Bring back mini discs. There you go. Fuck off, man. I actually keep being advertised a little CD player that I guess it has a speaker. Oh, like a six-cham? It sort of sits there, and it just goes. But then I would have to buy CDs to use that. I'm seeing that. I'm loving the vision of that. I actually don't own CDs though. But I want only Blu-rays, only CDs, records. Physical media is back. Because what are we going to pass on to our kids? No, it's so true. My playlist. Literally, I'm like, yeah, my Spotify password is this. This is how you access all my data. Good luck.

35:37You just log into the cloud and then, no, it's so true. And it's just, I have vinyls that are actually being warped to death and that's a shame, but I like having them. Yeah. Makes me feel interesting. Nice to have me too. to hold. All that to ask, what are you listening to these days? Absolutely nothing. Nothing? Yeah, I really, I'm going through a non-music phase. I don't know why. I'm like really saturated with music my whole life usually. It's very weird for me. I'm just not listening to music right now. Sometimes you have to like have a palate cleanser. Yeah. Mental sorbet. But are you listening to anything?

36:12Are you listening to podcasts? Yeah, I do listen to podcasts. It's okay if it's not this one. We'll assume this is in there but you don't have to mention it. We'll have Dimension. We'll know. I listen to all sorts of podcasts, and I listen to audiobooks, and I listen to... What else do I listen to? I don't know. I'm just going through a reading phase, actually, of just like having some quiet... What's the last great thing you read? Oh, my God. I read this excellent book called The Ex-Wife by Ursula Parrott. Ooh. Can you give us a... Write it down. Write it down. Do write it down. It's just been reissued by Faber, I think.

36:45And it was actually written in 1929 by a woman who she wrote this very open, like completely uncensored account of being an ex-wife in sort of like flapper New York. And it became this huge sensation, very scandalous, because it's got shock. I mean, my jaw was kind of on the floor reading it because I was like, I can't believe that this was written. I was like, this is a joke. Someone wrote this yesterday. They didn't write it then. And it was such a huge sensation. She became so famous so quick, this woman, that she basically ruined her life. Wow. And she never wrote another thing. Wow. And it's a crying shame because she's a great novelist.

37:26Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I highly recommend her. It was a really good read. Sold. I mean, honestly, me too. I'm also really in an audiobook moment at this time. I need to get into that. I don't know why I can't just go for it, but I think it'd be really good for me. It's really, it's nice to be able to take in a story passively. Especially my eyes are just constantly failing. So it's also that they're tired. I was like listening to like short stories by Thomas Hardy over the break also. Who's reading them? Great question. And that matters. It does matter. A bad audiobook? No, no. I have to.

38:04No sense of narrative? Oh my God. And it's just like, you're not, it's a very, it's a careful art. it's like a very important art and he would be great and not have you recorded any audiobooks? Yeah I did I did I did Howard's End when I was really pregnant Oh my god that works that is perfect I really enjoyed it and I really I like barely stopped I don't know I'm sort of attributing it to being pregnant and some sort of hormones happening but I was like I'm just gonna keep I was like I was on a yoga ball just like rocking back and forth just like I'm just gonna keep reading they were like you wanna take a break Rebecca?

38:38and I was like no one sitting oh my god so it's probably terrible speaking of high art we talked a little before we started rolling about the Real Housewives and Bravo flowing right into the conversation you've talked a bit about loving reality TV and the Housewives even though your husband doesn't quite get the hype he is lying. I'm sorry. Maybe, are we right? Are we wrong? I mean, he's, I don't, he gets it. I don't want to like, throw him under the bus here. He may not want to admit to getting it, but he gets it. No, he, he does not always. He's a bit resistant. He likes to be a little, you know, but this seems like a waste of time when we could be, you know, watching something great or like, reading something great.

39:35And I'm like, but we do all those things. Shakespearean. It's good to have high-end love. Not that I'm saying, by the way, I'm not putting, you know, not denigrating Housewives. It's an important part of our media ecosystem. It is. It really is. What reality TV are you watching right now? Like, what's your go-to? What's your fave? Well, I have been watching Salt Lake City Housewives. Did you watch the new episode? The one that, was it the last episode in Greece? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I'm like one behind. Yeah, I might be one behind as well. They got asked to leave a restaurant. That was where I left off.

40:10No, I did see that. I think there's one more. No, yeah. That's where I am as well. Do you have a favorite? No. I won't pick favorites. No. I don't have a favorite. It's really diplomatic. I would love to base a character on Meredith Marks once in my life at some point. Perfect. She's everything. People love her. Yeah. Yeah. She's like always DJing. she's like she's always DJing maybe not always but she she's been known presently she's been known to dabble always there's one thing about Meredith she's always in the bath she's always a DJing in the bath both she's on the decks she's like set up across the top very oh my god well we did want to ask you about award season and yeah and style in general um You and Morgan share a stylist, Bailey Moon, who is just a doll.

41:07And we love Bailey. We love Bailey. What is it like to share a stylist with your husband? Are there other hoops you need to jump through so you're not too matchy-matchy? Or do you try to kind of coordinate a little bit? No. Okay, yeah. Bailey knows us well enough to know that that would be roundly rejected. I mean, there have been, he's come very, there are a couple times we've been quite, but I've kind of gone, no, this works, actually. Yeah, this is actually fine. I'm down with this and it's fun but if you were to suggest the idea without the artifacts I think we would be like absolutely not get out right now yeah but I think Morgan got him first which is important to remember credit words too and yeah it sort of happened quite naturally because I think what happened was Morgan would be doing things and then I'd be going to things with Morgan and I'd turn up and be like, oh, I was just going to wear this out of my cupboard and Bailey would be like, what about this?

42:06I just happened to bring this along. I just happened to bring this along. A woman's dress. Just in case. No, he was very good like that. He would literally just sort of throw things on the couch. Just in case you feel like you might want to. What a dear. And then eventually I was like, okay, let's do this formally. Yeah. And I love him. He's great. He was probably the busiest stylist in the last four years because he also styled Jill Biden. Yeah. Did you know? Yes, I did. Was that a really hard secret? I think it's like so inside baseball here that we were like, oh my God. Did I just tell it I told the secret?

42:43I did, didn't I? I don't think I was. No, no, no. It's fine then. No one knew. It's okay. Count on the bag. Well, I would love to know a little bit about like your approach to red carpet dressing because I just loved the Tom Brown trompe l 'oeil bust that you wore. Was that the Academy Gala? Yeah, it was at the Academy Gala. That was gorgeous. I loved that. Yeah. What do you look for in the look? What kind of sparks you're in? It's so hard to describe, isn't it? It's just that sort of instinctive, yep, or it's like, no. A lot of things I just go, meh. Yeah. And I don't want to feel meh on a red carpet because so many people are looking at you.

43:22you want to feel you want to feel excited and so it's got to be something that excites me i think um whether it's the craftsmanship or like the beauty of it or it is a little sort of a little risque yeah you know a little shocking a little something and i really that tom brown was like hit i think a sweet spot that's like very niche to me because it looked very scandalous yeah but it actually wasn't at all it was somewhere it was just it was a bit of a tease you know it was like And I think actually in the room, people did think that I had painted my body. They were like, she's an artist. Oh, my God.

43:57I think it was that. People kept kind of going, oh, my God. Like a natural little look. They're like trying not to look at me. And I'd be like, don't worry, it's embroidered. My eyes are down here. But actually, in fact, circling back to the question about being yourself on camera, like on a red carpet, there are people who say that they're sort of playing a character, or like performing a version of themselves. And I think maybe there are other for whom that kind of situation feels maybe more natural or more comfortable. How comfortable are you in those sort of settings? Like standing, having your picture taken, like walking a carpet.

44:34You know, like in the past, like really not at all. Like I think when I was really, when I was younger, in my 20s, I really struggled with it. Like if someone stuck a camera at me, I sort of immediately like recessed into my neck. it was like really not a good look on camera it was like please stop looking at me and I do that is honestly my natural state is one of please stop looking at me so interesting but over the years it has changed and it's not really as it's not really as straightforward as like I create a character that then because I don't have a persona yeah but I do care less about sure people looking at me or what they think so then and I think when you cease to care about that then you can get to a creative place where you can just be creative and fun yeah um and have fun yeah I don't take it very seriously I think that is key yeah you know like I'm there might be some real disasters and there might be some wins and that's okay the disasters are as important You know, it's like, it's all part of the...

45:46Totally. The beauty is inside us all along. The beauty is inside us all along. This is brutal. These amazing things are happening. What is, how would you describe your kind of off-duty style? Like when no one's looking at you, when you're just kind of, yeah, putting around upstate. What are we like? What are we looking at? What are we doing exactly with the DL? We're looking at some crazy outfits, actually, is the truth. It's the honest to goodness truth. What kind of crazy? I feel like actually if anything, Bailey sort of holds me, like reigns me back. Like the truth is like if I'm... He's like, let's pump the brakes.

46:23No, I'm just like the thing that you don't get to do on the red carpet as an actor or as a person who's engaged with the fashion world is like actually put together outfits. I don't think your stylist doesn't even get to do that. You know, you can't like, I'm going to wear these pants and I'm going to wear this vintage top and then I'm going to pick this random bit of jewelry. And it's all different brands. You can't really do that. Which is something that actually kind of bugs me. Yeah. It bugs me too. Because I really love doing that on a daily basis, even if no one is looking. Yeah, that's how people get dressed.

46:53Yeah, it's how people get dressed. And that's a fun, creative kind of process. Yeah, I find it very creative and fun. And so I will wear some fairly strange combinations of things. I really rely on myself to wake up and sort of just, you know, ask what I'm feeling and who I want to be today. you know it's not and it varies enormously I'm not yeah and for a while I thought that was terrible like oh then I must be like have no style because I'm so changeable but actually I've just sort of like really like sat into the reality of like actually I I like to play yeah and every day is different and I don't know how I'm going to be feeling and yeah today I might want to dress a bit minimalist and tomorrow I'm going to dress like a you know the most extreme version of Helen Bonham carter and that's fine we love this we love this who i love by the way oh my god a queen and i can't be clear yeah so and that's you know that's just a part of expression and like being honest with yourself about that are there any pieces that you're saving for your daughter i feel like that's really like fun to have a oh yeah that's for you and is she like into clove like does she care she does care like she cares in the sense that she like loves a she's into color and combinations and actually she just she got like a k-pop demon hunter activity book for christmas and it had like design your own jackets like the front and the back and she spent like two hours yesterday doing it and it was like it was really good to the point that morgan was like should we just try and get this made oh my god so fun that's cool but she doesn't but she has yet to actually like make the link of that with actually getting dressed because she's like a real comfort person she's still that age where it's like if something's itchy or scratchy like get it off me yeah i only wear like very comfortable leggings and a long sleeve t-shirt even if that's like very stained if it's soft i'm living for it i mean we all oscillate between these two extremes yeah indeed Absolutely.

49:00I mean, you're also, for those who don't know, Rebecca's also a very talented visual artist and painter. So sick. You guys just, like between you and Morgan, you have this insane, you know, range of artistic talent. How do you kind of like get into the zone to paint? Like, do you find that there's a time of day that you like? Is it like periods of time? Yeah. I mean, there might be if I had that kind of life, but it's kind of like when I can get the chance. it's yeah it has is my daughter in school is there nothing going on do I then I'll just start and it and I won't necessarily stop um so I don't I don't have like schedules or anything like that but when I do start it's hard to get me out of it Morgan kind of Morgan does a little intake of breath when he sees me pick up a paintbrush because he's not really sure if I like emerge and he occasionally he's like have you have you had a glass of water oh my god when you started like exhibiting your work what was that like did that feel vulnerable or was that like exciting yeah of course it felt vulnerable yeah massively vulnerable yeah um but it also felt like a huge relief actually because it felt sort of odd to not at a certain point when you have something that's been a part of my life in different ways forever.

50:21I mean, the painting, like specifically getting into painting was more recent, but drawing and sort of being visual in that way has been forever. So it was sort of like, oh, no, this makes sense that I should just not keep it hidden. Sure. I mean, I'm curious as to how, I mean, these sort of different kinds of creativity and certainly like you yourself being, of course, an actor, also being a filmmaker and like working on your own material. Has having the experience of directing, do you think, informed the way that you approach work as an actor? Like the way that you like arrive on a set or kind of think about that job now?

51:02Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like everything, I think all the creative things that I do just inform each other. I don't really think of them as separate. Mm-hmm. I just watched an interview with David Lynch recently where he's talking about painting and it felt so completely exactly what I feel about this. Oh, fuck. That I just want to quote him on it. Please do. But I won't. I mean, I won't because I won't remember the quote exactly, but he was sort of broadly talking about how, you know, painting has always existed as this thing which sort of just processes everything and gives him like a sort of spatial time to be in a kind of dream state that's creative.

51:42Yeah. And I feel exactly the same way. Totally. I can't really, I sort of make sense of a lot of stuff just in the act of painting. It's not what I'm painting. Sure. That can be completely irrelevant. It's just the sort of that engagement. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, I feel like it's so fun to be able to be a creative person operating in sort of different ways. I feel like you've spoken about the fact that you were kind of, like your father sort of hazarded against that. like spreading yourself too thin creatively and trying to do too many different things but you're like this is just what it this is the way that my creativity kind of yeah yeah it was sort of like i fought it for a minute because i assumed it must be i would be diluting everything and it would be not good and then i was like actually no this is the fullest expression of myself is to do the things yeah and they can kind of speak to each other and they can speak to each other and they all make sense and i do feel like i'm a better actor for all the other things i really do that's Cool.

52:37And directing is just a, it's like the sort of, it's everything. It's, you know, it's music, it's visual, it's story, it's all the things. Yeah. Is there, I mean, we know that there is a project that you're kind of actively working on developing. Critics sort of poo-poo the like constant like reboots and sort of revivals. But some of those projects can be really a kind of valuable way of, like, reintroducing old works kind of into, I don't know, the kind of popular culture. Like, I'm even thinking of, like, this summer, like, Spike Lee's Highest to Lowest was, like, kind of, like, an amazing way of revisiting, like, mid-century Japanese cinema.

53:19Anyway, so I'm curious if there is, like, a project that you would like to, like, readapt. Like, if there's an old, I mean, we've talked about your Betty Davis sort of fixation. But, like, is there, yeah, a piece of media from the past that you would like to, like, put your own spin on as a filmmaker? I feel like maybe it's a musical, funnily enough. Oh. Love. I would like to direct a musical. I'd like to be in a musical. I mean, I just sort of kind of was. Iris Axtus made-ish a musical. Oh, right. Oh, right. Oh, yes. But I would like to direct a musical. I feel like sometimes I've always been quite obsessed with Bob Fosse as a filmmaker.

54:00Oh, my gosh. All that jazz, I think, is a masterpiece. And also his film of Cabaret is incredible. Oh, my God, yeah. And sometimes I'm like, oh, it'd be nice to make another film of Cabaret. But then I'm like, but you cannot improve on that. That is tough. That is tough. You cannot improve on that. The alchemy of that film. Well, it's just it teaches, it's just like watch anything that he directs and it teaches you everything there is to know about timing and tempo in movies. It's like, it's just brilliant. And I think that's kind of something that I'm very interested in. The way that he moves, I'm thinking about his From This Moment On and Kiss Me Kate, like just the physicality.

54:36It's just like a crazy way of... That's so funny you bring that up because I have such a thing with that. When I was a kid, there were like various different like VHS, aging myself, like that was, I mean, it's fine. this audience we know from VHSs it's like I'm not I was like even when I said that I was like I'm not pretending I'm 25 but no one would believe me and I'm also not doing that nor would I ever anyway there were there was a VHS that was like taken off the television of that old weird Hollywood MGM documentary called That's Entertainment that has all the clips yeah yeah yeah right and I would And I would watch this, like, obsessively as a child.

55:22But mostly so I could fast forward to Bob Fosse coming through that arch in Kiss Me Kate and doing that slide across the floor. Because I was like, who is that and what is he doing? It's wild. It's so jazzy. It's so funky. It's so cool. Everyone, go to YouTube. Oh, my God. Anyway. You know what I loved him? It was The Little Prince. I'll go to that little bit. The Little Prince where he's a snake. Oh, yes. Oh, I don't even think I know. Oh, my God. It's very weird. It's so weird. The live-action adaptation of The Little Prince. He plays the snake in the tree. He's in the desert. Yeah. Yeah. He's just doing his little fluid slither.

55:57It's very, yeah. You are in for a treat. That's why Bob Fosse is a snake. That's the biggest thing. You just have it already in your brain. You already know exactly what you're watching. I know exactly what it is. You already know. No need to watch. Oh, my God. But without hands is confusing for Bob Fosse. He makes it work. I forgot that he was without it. He was without it. I'm just saying that it's challenging for any kind of Fosse movement. It's so true. It's like take away Bob Fosse's hands. What are you doing? This is criminal. Might as well take away his hat. What are we talking about? Thank you.

56:33Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you. This is so much fun. This really was. Again, everyone tune in for the beauty. January. January, February, March, April, May. Just always tune in for it. Always. Always tune in for the beauty. You never know when it's going to draw. January 31st on FX. Also watch Fosse Verdon, actually, while you're there. Just, like, to, like, close the loop, like, just in case. If you miss it the first time, it's all there.

57:13The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman.

57:31From PRX.