Revisiting a Conversation With Erykah Badu

0:28This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mal. a great piece because you she really opened up to you in the article. And then when she came in, I really loved being with her. And the fact that she read our tarot cards and told me that I needed more help. I was like, I do need help. Yeah, she's a great interview. I mean, honestly, I find that people who've had interesting lives and people are just really good in their own skin, especially kind of people who embrace the wilder side of life, the weirder side of things, the more fantastical side of things. They're just always more interesting to interview.

1:05Yeah, that cover was March 2023, I think. God, time flies. I know, Troma. She had a collaboration with Marnie at the time, and she was actually photographed in pieces from that collection, which honestly, I wish I'd have bought some pieces from it, because it was such a great collection. It was a great capsule. And Jamie Hawksworth, brilliant British photographer shot the cover and Alex Harrington styled it. So it was a really great team. And I got to meet her family and spend time with them and her mother, who is absolutely hilarious. And, you know, I learned that she's really a stand up comic under it all.

1:41She's a frustrated comic. Well, and you also spent time in the Badoodio. Oh, I did. I spent a lot of time in the Badoodio. My only regret was not being able to see her house because it was under renovations. But the Bedudio was a very close second. Can you tell us what the Bedudio is? The Bedudio is kind of a home away from home where she has a studio, but she often also sleeps there and entertains there. And it's not too far from her mother's house where she grew up and her own house, which is on the lake in Dallas. So it's a really cool space and she has a lot of her clothes there. So everything, you know, all the wonderful pieces that you see her wearing.

2:27She's a special one and her space is really cool. And she had wind chimes everywhere, obviously. Like, she just loves wind chimes. Okay, well, enough chat. Here's our actual conversation with the exquisite enigma Erykah Badu. And next week, we will be back with some very exciting coverage of Fashion Month. Bye. Bye.

2:56Well. Hey. Miss Bardu. Yeah. So good to have you in the studio with us. Tell us how your fashion week has been. My fashion week has been... Eventful. Successful. Um, tiring. It's a lot of work. I'm super grateful for it. I spied you across the room at Tom Brown. Oh, I didn't see you. Yeah. What do you love about Tom? I love that he makes me feel like when wanting to do something really creative and whimsical and imaginative, I would want to do it but think I'd get in trouble for it. And he does those things that we think we'll get in trouble to do. And he's courageous and always imaginative and inhibited.

3:47That's what I like about him. Tell us what you wore that day. I wore Tom Brown that day. But Tom's look was inspired by the actual look itself. I looked at a photo of the full look and I interpreted it in my way. I love the curlers. Thank you. Yeah, they were really great. Thank you. There were curlers in the original look, but they were very small little red and blue ones. Right. So I thought that. You upped the ante? Yeah, just a little bit. I think they were, weren't they from this young designer duo in Brooklyn? Yes, El Enchanté. That's it. Very, very cool jewelry brand. Yeah, two very talented twin sisters, originally from Nigeria.

4:32You're like a jewelry connoisseur. I feel like you always have incredible jewelry that you have either custom made or you've commissioned. Yeah, I love it. I think it creates sometimes the look. You know, it's all you need, really. those little accents and things that enhance the silhouette but not take away from it. So now we're dying to know. How do you decide? Is it a mood thing? Is it a vibe thing? You wake up, you're naked. I mean, not necessarily, but how do you build what's... I just feel like you're painting a picture with your clothes every day. How do you build your outfits? Yeah, that's how I feel too.

5:14I wake up and I, you know, do my morning ritual, and I'm thinking about it the whole time. What's the ritual, do you mind me asking? I light a candle on my altar, and I make a cup of tea. What kind of candle? Just a small tea light. Okay. That can go out in about an hour. Okay. Yeah. And I make a cup of tea and I turn on. I say, Alexa, play soothing wind chimes. And she does. Sometimes she goes, your Amazon account has been suspended. But it's a mistake, obviously. So I say it again. Alexa, play soothing wind chimes. She plays it again. So she plays it and I go, you know, open the doors and I'm thinking about, you know, what I have to do for the day.

6:19Most days I don't have to go anywhere. But on a week like this week, my day would be a little bit different. I would wake up and I'm in a hotel room and I'm just thinking about what I have to do that day. and what colors I want to create. Or I just wear what I slept in with a jacket, some cute boots, hat, some jewelry. There's not a lot of thought that goes into it. I would love to have a really eloquent answer, but I just, you know, it's grace. It's, yeah, it's what it is. It happens to work.

7:13The run-through will be back in just a moment.

7:28Right now, in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe. It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

8:17and we're back we very much enjoyed your cover thank you we really did yeah tell us about the shoot oh it was really fun where was it it was uh Santa Monica I believe on the beach a very overcast day at first. And then as it got to the golden hour, that's when we all became creative and expressive. It was the day before we were kind of pow-wowing in my hotel room and talking about the looks Alex and I. That's fashion editor Alex Harrington. Yeah, and did a little test shoot on the wall as I was just throwing things together. And some of them stuck. Some of them were things that were really cool looks, and we kept a couple of those.

9:15And Alex had some things in mind, so it was a true collab. It was his vision and my vision, seasonings and stuff that I can add. And we did. Were there some special pieces of your own that you kept in the shoot that you wore jewelry or accessories? There was a special piece we talked about for two weeks. We talked about we need to locate the perfect tattered T-shirt. Oh, wow. Wow. The perfect tattered T-shirt, and I'm going to wear it throughout the whole shoot. So you have to kind of find it in each photo. But it's me and Alex's own kind of... Talisman. Yes, exactly. And I slept in it the night before, you know, just to get the energy going.

10:04Because it guided the whole way, you know. So it's present in some of the photos, and other ones you don't really see. But, yeah. I love that your daughter's in there with you. There's really beautiful photos together. What was it like shooting with her? Easy. Just like doing everything with her. She's, you know, just easy breezy. She's helpful. She's kind. Consider it hardworking. So she didn't mind. She's really, she's starting her career and doesn't really want to be in the limelight when it's a job for me. She's very humble. She is very humble. I got that impression from her. She's very polite and lovely.

10:53Yeah. But, you know, they asked her if she wanted to be in it, and I go, what's the point of you want to be in this? Because everybody is waiting for you. Everybody thinks that you're going to be perfect for it. Come on, please. Okay.

11:08Yeah, that's how it is most of the time. Didn't she come with you to deliver those twins? She did. Oh, my gosh. It was almost the same thing. Come on, come on. We got to go to this. It's going to be perfect. Everybody is waiting for you. The babies need this. Yeah. Okay. Well, tell us about that because, I mean, I can't imagine delivering twins. Well, this story is going to break first with you. Okay. We weren't actually there. Okay. We went for the first visit. We should say, for anyone who doesn't know, that you are a doula. I'm a doula. And Summer Walker was an incredible singer. Yes, this is my second time with her.

11:49Oh, I see, I see, I see. Second time around with her. She had a daughter that I was present for the first time, two years ago. It was kind of a false alarm the first time we went. And we went back home and, you know, regrouped a little bit. And by the time it was time to go back, we were on the way and she said, well, the babies are here. Sometimes it happens like that. but there's still a tremendous amount of guidance and support they depend on. So I go afterwards and give post-support if I miss a birth. I haven't missed a birth before because you never know how quickly it's going to happen. And luckily, we had set up a great support team.

12:34We always have a really good support team, a network where there are people on hand. You know, I had other doulas who were available to help. Twins are always seem so complicated, though. How's she doing? She's doing wonderful. Yeah, she's back in these streets and being a good mommy and working, being creative. Wow. Yeah. I love how you bring ritual into everything that you do. And so tell me a little bit about what goes into your doula kit, like how you set it up, the rituals and the breathing exercises that you... Sure. My doula kit, I'll say it's the... Kit is the whole experience, I think.

13:17It starts when I meet a mother and we bond and I think this is something that I can do and a family I can support. And we decide on a birthing plan. This is probably the fourth, fifth month. And ahead of time, we decide who's going to be there and what the vision is. And that changes sometimes, but just to have a foundation of that. Then I walk a mom through her nutritional package, her, you know, the recommendations that are suited for a good, healthy birth. Then we come with our own dual ritual. For example, Tiana Taylor and I got up every morning at sunrise and we did a meditation and a prayer.

14:10Using elements, you know, fire or candle, incense for the wind, a little cup of water, and a plant or something for earth. And just to ground us and realign us with nature. Do you usually do home births or hospital births? I usually do home births or birthing center births. But I also attend hospital births as well. It doesn't matter to me. You know, it's no wrong way to have a baby. It's just that you are at peace and you have the comfort that you desire so that the breasts are easy, the heart rate is down, and the babies can come through. Your babies aren't babies anymore. My babies are not.

14:55My youngest just turned 14, and that's a special time. She's an Aquarius? She is an Aquarius. Special. She's the only Aquarius air sign in the house. The rest of us are water and Pisces and Puma's Cancer and 7th Scorpio. So she's a regulator. I just am in awe that so much of your family, so many of your family members work with you. I mean, it brings new meaning to family business. Listen, we had an intervention today, you know. Every now and then I'll ask, you know, for a report. Like, how am I doing in life? How am I? You know, then they'll tell me. Sometimes you have a tendency to say, your movement is snapping quick this week.

15:43Or, you know. They'll tell me because they're my family members. You know, it's my sister. I grew up with her. It's my daughter. She's honest, you know. It's my mother. She's like, come on now. She's definitely honest. Yeah. Straight shooter. And she's witty. She's so funny. She's half joking, half straight, but it's like she's going to be straight with you. You're right. My uncles, they're going to coddle me. That's so sweet. I get the balance of everything. I get the, you do everything right, and then I get the, nah, sis, that's not it. You know, so as long as we keep those lines of communication open and not shy away from loving each other and not put loyalty in front of it.

16:33I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about, you know, baby Erica when you, you know, when you were young and you learned to sing. And what are your first memories of kind of like being, you shared a little bit with me about how hearing music, but what were your first memories of making music? My first memories are in church with my great grandmother, the house that you were in. She also lived there and passed on there. In Dallas. In Dallas. And my grandmother lived there and passed on there. Wow. Now my mother has inherited the position of the matriarch of that house. In that house, there was a grand piano or an upright piano, and it belongs to my great-grandmother, Odessa.

17:26And she played for a church, so she would play it all the time. And it was a pretty tall upright piano, you know, the kind that you would see in a Western movie or in an old church. and she would kick the bottom of it while she played to use the bottom for a kick drum. Oh, wow. And I would sit under there and watch her foot, you know, and I would feel it, you know, whatever it was that you're supposed to feel. I felt it. And I always had, I didn't know if I would be a singer or anything like that, but I felt the thing, whatever that is, that, you know, the metronome, mine always finds the rhythm or the pitch of the keys or the tone of the thing.

18:23You know, I always find it. But I didn't know I would be a single, but that's my first understanding. And my other grandmother bought me a piano like that. and I just pretended like I was playing, like my great-grandmother.

18:44Did you teach yourself or did you take lessons? Yeah, I can't read music. I will say Erica played me a song. I wasn't allowed to record it, but we know that your music is such a part of you too, and I know that people are eager to see what you will do next with music. How are you feeling about that? Soon come. You know, I feel like I've been going through a downloading period. You know, I told you that for the past two or three years, since a little bit before COVID, the pandemic. Yeah, that sent us all into a spiral of deep thought. And I think that I'm ready to have something to say, maybe. To upload?

19:33Yeah, I'm ready. So that, because I'm feeling music a lot right now. I listen to it all the time, but I'm really feeling like participating. You know, even though I perform live, it's a totally different feeling. A live performance is like creating a moment. You can do that anytime. But the studio experience is perfecting a moment. And yet it's work. You get in there and you really start to craft something. and I'm ready to give that type of energy to myself. So soon. Is that what you asked me? Yeah. Okay. Yes, I'm ready to do that, I think.

20:21You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

20:48I was excited to learn that you actually started working at Steve Harvey's Comedy Club. And Choma was telling me that you actually are quite the mischief maker and prankster. And I was just wondering, how do you sort of integrate that into your life? Are you playing pranks on people and your family? Is April Fool's a big holiday? I didn't mention this, but you should see the – doesn't the welcome mat is really hilarious? Okay. I think that's what she meant. Oh. I don't know about this. My welcome mat? Well, there's always a little bit of fun. There's always a little bit of like – Yes, it's a little mischief, yes.

21:28What does the welcome mat say? Well, I've got to tell you the story first. All right. People are stealing people's packages left and right. And it's like people just really feel entitled to people's things now for some reason. It's so weird. But people are also still scared of things that they don't understand. So in order to deter people from stealing packages, my welcome mat says, steal my packages and you will die in three days time. Now, did you make this custom? I did. Oh, wow. I didn't know it was custom. It was custom. Like on Etsy or how does that work? It was custom. I saw this Mac company on Instagram actually.

22:17I said, can you make me want to say steal my packages and you will die in three days time today? Everyone else has their name on it. And they said, yeah, we can probably do that. Came in the mail. I was like, yes. And put it outside. And there have been no thefts on my camera. I'm happy to hear that. I also know there was a word that you taught me and it's escaping me, but I think it's an indigenous American word. Heyoka. That's right. Explain that to everybody because I was really intrigued. Heyoka. The Sioux tribe describes Heyoka as an empath who deeply fills everybody's emotional experiences in some way.

23:13And he is the person in the tribe who tries to make light of heavy things by using comedy as a coping mechanism. riding the horse backwards or eating a rock or making light of someone's tragedy by making a joke of it. The whole desire is to create balance so that we don't take ourselves and our moments so serious. Heyoka is very blunt with their opinions, and they are very curt with their statements. And they often cut people off because they know what you're going to say, and they don't have time to listen to it. So that could be seen as rude. And people do say they're rude. But Heyoka's are, they're, it's not like I'm talking about myself.

24:22I am. I am Heyoka. I am Heyoka. Yeah, that's, and I am, when I read the description years ago, I felt like I fit that description because I mean well and my energy is pure, but sometimes people don't like the mirror up to them. And they will tell you stuff like, it's not always your job to show someone who they are. You know, I disagree. Who job is? It is my job. There you have it. I mean, you have so many talents. Thank you. We actually have a deck of tarot cards here. Oh, okay. And I think it might be time for us to... These are very old. Yes. I think they're actually in French. Are they in French?

25:17They're my father's. They're French, 30-year-old French tarot cards. They're beautiful cards. But because I know when I was there, you know, your altar has all kinds of beautiful things on it. And there was a stack of cards. And you pulled a card for me that was very accurate for my life at that moment. Yeah, too. Are you guys into tarot at all? Yeah, I haven't had my cards read in a long time. What do you know about tarot? Well, I have a—it's getting very personal, but when I was very young, about eight or nine years old, my mother and I went to a tarot card reader on a side street in Midtown, and she read our cards, and I forget what she said about me, but then she looked at my mother, and she pulled—it might have been the card of death, but she said, you're going to need help very soon.

26:07and then a year later my father died and so my mother has never seen a tarot card reader since then. How long have you been into tarot, Erica? Five minutes. But I can do it. I'm new to this, but I'm not new to this. Understand me? I can guarantee you that I'm going to give you a reading that's going to blow your mind.

26:40Right now. Right now, right now, right now, right now. Right now. Come, Spirit, and give us some energy. Something that we can use.

26:55Something that we may learn from, grow from. Thank you.

27:12All readers don't do this, but... So Erica's tapping on the stack of cards with her grill, which is amazing. That's the only stones I had available. I know. There are pearls in here. They're beautiful. I was admiring them. I'm also resourceful. Okay. So do you have a question in mind? or you just want... Let's do... Go ahead. Yeah. Let's do the whole thing. You have a question, Maia? Oh, that's my question. I've found myself recently, as I've become a parent, being concerned about the health of myself and those around me, and I feel like there's no way to control that, but I wonder... I'm constantly concerned about having health issues early.

28:02Okay. Death. No, I'm joking. Don't do that, Erica! That's not funny. No, no, I was kidding.

28:17Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Your card is a ten of cups. the ten of cups says to me that cups represent love in this case you are requiring and needing overwhelming love and support