Sabrina Carpenter is Vogue’s March Cover Star

0:08Welcome to The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel. And I'm Chomanati.

0:41through. No way. And posted it. It was a good reminder to not look grumpy in public. But I was very touched and I responded to her DM and I said, we love to hear. Thank you so much because I love you and Choma. I love hearing you guys catch up. So there we go. Fans in the wild. We love that. We love fans in the wild. We have a very fun conversation today. Sabrina Carpenter, as I hope everyone knows is American Vogue's March cover star. And deputy editor Taylor Antrim and I got to talk to our cover story writer, the brave and brilliant Abby Aguirre, who Choma also loves. She wrote such a delightful, almost academic assessment and take on the phenomenon of Sabrina Carpenter's stardom and got to spend time with her backstage at her show in San Diego.

1:41I mean, everybody is talking about this cover. I was last night, we did another conversation at the Lightroom in London with Pierpaolo, formerly of Valentino and now waiting to be wedded to another brand. But, you know, one of our favorites. He was very coy. But yeah, he had, And he's very good friends with Philip Tracy. He's a very legendary milliner here in the UK. And Philip was talking nonstop. The whole table was buzzing about Sabrina Carpenter and this cover and this wonderful Stephen Mizell cover that was starred by I.B. Kamara. Yeah, it's making waves around the world, Chloe. Waves around the world.

2:24We love to hear it. Yeah, I just love that classic bombshell. Me too. That's what I said. I'm such a sucker for an old school bombshell Vogue cover. And then last night we had a little party to celebrate. And Sabrina actually got off a flight and changed into her laced up corseted dress and came to the new bar in the East Village, Monsieur. And she and Anna Wintour greeted everyone and gave a really cute speech. um Taylor says this later in our interview and I think it's true that there is this frisson of excitement and thrill around a first Vogue cover like a starlet who's on on the rise and has really made it their first Vogue cover is this exciting moment to be a part of yeah it really is it it's so special and I think um you feel it you feel it on the internet you sort of feel that sort of tingle of excitement that people are like oh right okay this is like the big moment in Vogue.

3:25Yeah, which is it's so it's so fun to see someone at that moment in their career. There were a lot of actors and other stylists, celebs, photographers. Tyler Mitchell was there, a lot of designers, Emily Bodie, who's very pregnant and had just come from the GQ Bodie Bowl. Morgan Spector and Rebecca Hall, New York's most attractive couple. Chloe Finan. And they're so nice. They're so nice. I love Rebecca. And yeah, the party was great because for one thing, they obviously had espresso martinis in an homage of Sabrina's signature track. Although I joke to the events ladies that they should have made it ristretto martinis since ristretto is like a short espresso and they're like too much.

4:12Go away.

4:16Tell me more about New York Fashion Week. I mean, I'm sort of like I'm seeing lots of snowy street style images. I'm seeing pictures from Tom Brown. Are you feeling FOMO or are you feeling, what's relief over having missed out? Romo? Romo. I'm the queen of Romo. Jomo's the queen of Romo. I used to be, I made the switch. I used to be queen of FOMO, but now I'm Romo. No, I feel FOMO. I love New York Fashion Week. There's so many designers I'm fond of and I love, yeah, and I love that cab drivers know that it's like, it's New York Fashion Week. Oh, what's happening? People are like, what's happening?

4:55I know, they always want to know what's happening. I thought Fashion Week was actually lovely because it was a little more, felt a bit more low-key than in the past. It didn't feel quite as, the wattage wasn't as high, which I thought was kind of nice. I still felt like there were, a lot of the presentations of fashion funders I thought were really strong, and that's always nice to see. People loved Zankov's playful take on sweater dressing and sweater layering. Diotima really branched out into new silhouettes. Yeah, they're like very good friends, aren't they? Those two. Yeah, I think so. I really like the Tory show.

5:34I thought there were a lot of things that were sort of cheeky but also wearable. What else? People loved Eckhaus Lada and felt like their whole thing was we're like anti-mood boards. This is what real dressing is. Yeah, one of my colleagues was talking about that on the team here, about how they loved the Eckhouse Latter Show. I mean, we were trying to sort of nail what the big viral moments were or what the thing that got people talking or got people smiling in this case, which I thought was like Kate Moss and Christy Turlington. Yes, the Calvin of it all. Big debut, no? Big debut and big front row, very glamorous.

6:14That definitely felt like the starriest, splashiest show of the week and the most anticipated. You know, Nicole had a great conversation with Veronica on Tuesday's show. And we had a really fun lifting the veil behind the scenes, front row, hot take on all the shows. Our intrepid producers trek through the snow following our editors around to different shows. and you should listen to Wednesday's episode, Choma, to feel like you were here in person. No FOMO, no ROMO. I cannot wait. I will. Choma, did you watch the Super Bowl? I didn't, but I watched the halftime show on repeat the next day. Best halftime show ever.

7:00You watched it on repeat? Wow. Yeah, it was so good. I just think Kendrick's a genius and there was so many Easter eggs, so much symbolism buried within the performance So you kind of had to watch it a few times. Oh, my God. I know. Even what he was wearing. There was so much. The Gloria jacket. Yeah, there was a lot going on. Yeah, the Gloria jacket. Yeah, it was a lot going on. I mean, he broke the Internet with his flares. Oh, my God. Well, we have a big debate internally about flare versus boot cut. OK. And we think this is a boot cut or a flare? We think this is a boot cut, but there's a lot of debate about what is the difference between the two.

7:38And we've decided that a boot cut is a type of flare, just like a square is a type of rectangle. I mean, because there's also bell bottoms. So what's the difference between a bell bottom and a flare? I think it's I think a flare is the overarching umbrella under which bell bottom and boot cut live. OK, that that that makes sense to me. But because there's just such a subtle distinction between the two. I think you're right. A flare is like, but you think a boot cut is more specific. A boot cut really should just be enough room to go over a boot. Yeah, yeah. So then a bell bottom is kind of on the other end because it's quite...

8:22A bell bottom is as wide as you can go. As it go. Okay. I just can't remember the last time that a halftime performer was able to start a trend in fashion. I mean, it's kind of amazing. It's crazy. Artie's preschool teacher this morning was like, I need to talk to you about Kendrick's bell-bottom jeans. I have bell-bottoms, so I'm ahead of the trend. I was like, Naoko, you are ahead of the trend. And then his current teacher was like, I know, I saw that too. I bought my son Hollister jeans for Christmas and he made me return them because they were flared. And now I told him that we were on trend.

8:58So it really, this is. I mean, you know, and I think Pharrell has been rocking a boot cut since he did the cowboy inspired show. So I think we have to give some credit where credit's due or at least say that this is a building trend. I feel like it's like quite committed to a flair. Kendra, the boot cut is like the Helen of Troy. It's like the jeans that launched a thousand Celine dupes. Something about denim trends just triggers people or gets people going. Like, I don't know why, but I guess because denim is such a humble, universal American fabric. But like, yeah, anything about denim trends, like you can go so micro on denim trends and people have so much to say and feel very like unsettled.

9:44Like it's still a pair of jeans, like, but you can go, it can communicate so many different things and get people. Yeah, people are definitely talking about those flares here. Like, everybody's talking about Kendrick. Kendrick just, like, I mean, he just set the world alight. And your girl SZA. She really looked amazing, sounded amazing. Samuel L. Jackson as Uncle Sam. Oh, I know. In Bodhi. In Bodhi. You know, so much political messaging. And then Serena cripwalking. I know. I mean, it was amazing. Choma, I want to know what you're doing for Valentine's Day since you and your Valentine have an ocean between you.

10:29It was my partner's 40th birthday yesterday. But yeah, I'm a bit of a Valentine's Day, like, scrooge. Oh, are you a Valentine's Day hater? I kind of forgot about that. I am. I'm not like, I never really, I mean, I do, speaking of Valentine's Day, I do love all the love stories on Vogue.com And I feel very excited to see that this year they're all themed around astrology, which is obviously my favorite topic. We're dipping our toe, Chama. For the uninitiated, Anna Wintour is not a huge fan of astrology. So we've shied away from it in the past. I mean, that's an understatement. But you know what?

11:08How did you get this one? How did you sneak this one in? Because people, when you look across the company at what stories perform the best worldwide, they are all astrology stories. And I know we don't have to do what your it's your horoscope for the week or the day, whatever. But I do feel like there's ways to cover astrology and funny, unexpected takes on it. And we have done this love story series for the past couple of years that Chloe Shama has spearheaded. And last year, our theme was, I think, secrets and lies. Yeah. And this year we decided that a lot of the youth in the Vogue office are really making a lot of decisions based on astrology.

11:51And so we had all of our five stories be astrology focused. We even had Maya Lane, one of our intrepid Gen Z colleagues, do an intense first person investigation where she dated, went on dates with her three least compatible signs. Oh, my God. I need to read that immediately. I encourage everyone to read that immediately. Really gripping, gripping takeaways. I love that she did that for the sake of art. This is very, this is. There was a lot of debate about when to. This is my kind of first person story. Yeah, we couldn't decide when she had to tell the dates. We decided halfway through the date.

12:32Oh, my God. Valentine's Day plans. I am actually going to. There is the big Saturday Night Live's 50th anniversary event is sort of all over this weekend. It's Friday night is a big concert at Radio City and then a party at the San Vicente Bungalows. And Sunday night is a special three-hour show with an after party at the Plaza. And I am going with my mom. I'm an SNL spouse in this case. But I'm very excited. And that is taking up my Valentine's Day plans. We don't really do Valentine's either. Although I have to say I was very touched. I was sort of struggling last week. And Graham knows that food-based acts of service are my love language.

13:22And he always makes me nachos for the Super Bowl. And I thought that he would forget this year because we were, you know, sort of strangled by lack of child care. But then he and Arthur went out and did a secret errand and made us delicious nachos. And I felt like that was the Valentine's Day gift I wanted. Oh, that's so nice. What else? I mean, everyone's just getting gearing up for Oscars and figuring out who's actually going to win. And it is an interesting race this year with the Amelia Perez drama. And it doesn't feel like a surefire film is going to sweep. So I need to catch up on my films and be ready for that in two weeks.

14:10Yeah, we're gearing up for the BAFTAs here. Oh, right. I still haven't decided what I'm going to wear, but I think I'm wearing something vintage. I'm doing the last thing tomorrow. And we are this year, we're teaming up with GQ. So my lovely colleague, Adam Badawi, who is the head of British GQ, is going to be co-hosting with me, Cynthia Erivo and Adrian Brody. Adrian Brody was sitting next to Anna at Tom Brown doing a lot of videotaping. He was very into the whole affair. Oh, amazing. And wow. Well, so, yeah, we have him. We have Cynthia. We have Harris. And we have Mikey Madison. So I think it's going to be a really fun party.

14:57And we're sort of doing it differently this year. So I think it's going to be really fun partnering with the guys, with the GQ guys. The bros. We love that. I'm excited. Yeah, me too.

15:13The run-through will be back in just a moment.

15:51Thank you.

16:10I am so excited to talk about this cover because I have to say, I am a sucker for a classic old school Vogue cover. And this, to me, I feel like I really got the dopamine hit. To me, it delivers everything you want it to visually. And then I had the treat of reading Abby's story. And it's so much fun. And I feel like it's like this forensic investigation of the carpenters and Sabrina-dom and what it means to be Sabrina. And it was a feat. Chloe, I agree with you. I mean the thing that's so cool about this cover also having worked at Vogue for a long time is that when someone gets their first Vogue cover, it is like a – it's like a certain kind of like charge.

16:54It has an extra little charge that comes along with it. And for Sabrina Carpenter to be on the cover of the March issue, which is like our second biggest issue of the year after the September issue and it's always like a big sort of fashion issue, one that we throw a lot of ambition into, really does kind of feel like a special moment. So I'm it's a great thing. Abby, I remember when you were the culture editor at Vogue.com and you since moved to the West Coast. But you, I feel like, have become one of the most beloved cover writers in Taylor's stable of thoroughbreds. That's so nice. Yeah. The thing is, like, Abby really does her homework.

17:40And the one that I was thinking of when Sabrina kind of came along as going to be our cover is, Abby, I was thinking about your – I think it was 2019. When was Taylor Swift? 2019. 2019. So I was like, that's what we need. Because that was – I feel like you went to – you got a Ph.D. in Taylor Swift studies to write that cover story. Yes. And I was like, it's going to require similar scholarship here for Sabrina Carpenter. And when you asked me if I would want to write about it, Sabrina, I had a similar feeling in my gut that I had with Taylor, which was, I don't know that I know enough. Right. And then I remembered immediately that that resulted in a very different kind of piece and that that could potentially be the case here.

18:31So tell us what you did to prepare, because I remember that too. I remember having that conversation with you because I know you plunge into preparation. But tell me, you know, give our listeners a little sense of behind the scenes of how you get prepared to meet someone like Sabrina. So before I went to the show, I just spent a lot of time with her music. I listened to a podcast that I love that's now on Vox where they really break down the music. What podcast? Switched on Pop. It's so good. They are, one of them is a songwriter who teaches at NYU and the other one is like a musicologist. And they don't get into the lore.

19:07They don't get into the celebrity stuff. They don't get into anything. They just talk about what's going on in the music and they break it down like musically. It's almost like Song Exploder, except that they're not interviewing the person. And I did not spend a lot of time in the Sabrina universe online. So it was really helpful to go to the show because immediately, I mean, I drove into this arena and it was just swarmed. with thousands of young girls all wearing this dress code. It was like sexy Valentine's Day. I mean, it was like sexy Halloween, but it was Valentine's Day because there's hearts everywhere.

19:50And there was a layer of it that it was my hometown. And this is the place where I was that age girl. So I immediately am like, oh my God. You know, I also just want to let the listeners know what's really fun about working with Abby is pre-deadline, you'll get these like text messages where it's like she's like she's discovering something about the artist that she's or the cover star that you're working on that you're so excited to share. And it's like I got one midway through that was like, Taylor, Taylor, did you know how sexual Sabrina Carpenter's lyrics are? and to be honest to Abby I mean this I should admit this like on mic but I was like the honest answer not really because a I don't really I don't really listen to lyrics that carefully and b my daughter's like 12 and she's just slightly maybe too young for Sabrina I had not really gotten into lyrics but I then I've tried this text exchange with Abby where she's like dude it's really r-rated I like I like went on to genius I looked at some of the lyrics and I was like oh my goodness.

20:59And then I wandered down the hall here at Vogue HQ and talked to some of my younger colleagues. I was like, guys, did you know how sexual Sabrina Carpenter's lyrics are? And the look that I received was just priceless. What we're talking about is also why it's become a bit of a controversy because you can miss it. You could hear his persona and miss it if you're not in that zone, if you're not in the demographic, You could have no idea. And then you go to the show. I mean, you for sure got attacked after I was at the show. I'm not one to wear pearls, but if I were, I would have been clutching them.

21:36I was like, oh, my God. And I was sitting behind her father. Yeah, you got to tell us about her family. You met her whole family backstage in San Diego. Tell us about that. She has three sisters and there was only one sister there. But her parents rolled in. On their RV. that made me laugh out loud that they got an accident not that that's funny but the way you presented it was very funny they presented it in a very funny way they're all very funny and it was all very light hearted and comical but they had been on this road trip that had turned into a comedy of errors basically and they finally arrived so they were just you know and it all happened as the Grammy nominations were announced so then Sabrina relayed that basically nobody cared because everybody was preoccupied with their flat tires and this and that.

22:29And, you know, she's just very funny. She's very funny immediately. She's very comfortable. And I felt very comfortable there. And it wasn't, like, scripted to spend time with her family, but it was a happy accident that that was who happened to be backstage. Well, Abby, I have a question because you, as we've discussed, have become such a specialist of the pop star and the superstar. And I do feel like someone like Taylor, I remember interviewing her also, and she is so on message and she is so well-controlled. And I'm sure that's true for Adele, Rihanna, other people you've been with. But was Sabrina open?

23:08Was she closely media trained? Like, what was the vibe of her personality? She feels very open to me. she's very I mean I can tell that she's very much making the call what she wants to talk about and what she doesn't which I think just her generation I mean even Taylor on down every anyone that age like they are personally making the call what they share and what they don't share they've been art directing their lives you know from day one so they right they're in charge they're very much like decide what they're going to share with you and what they're not. And she was, you know, she, when she didn't want to share something, she just would, she wouldn't be evasive about it or coy.

23:53She would just be like, and that's that, you know, she wasn't trying to pretend she was giving me the whole answer. Like she would just be like, and no, she's very open. You can tell she's very open. She says all, I mean, she was very forthright. And if she didn't want to discuss something. She was forthright about not wanting to discuss it. Tell us what the show was actually like. And we all saw a little bit of it at the Grammys, which I think was a pretty blockbuster performance. I had to do a lot of work afterward just to understand sort of the many layers of what I had just seen. It was incredibly entertaining.

24:28It is, as the set designer put it, a sculptural environment. In other words, it's not a set. She's not standing. I mean, there's a set, but it's not a backdrop. It's a home and it's designed as a Manhattan penthouse apartment. And it unfolds in the style of a sort of old school variety show. The references she mentioned were the original Cher show and then Playboy After Dark. It's also supposed to be a tv show so there are old cameras being wheeled around um and i thought oh maybe they're making a concert film until i realized they were like super vintage looking cameras and it was just supposed to sort of look like they were actually filming playboy after dark and um she sort of moves throughout the architectural space in a way that every room like she performs a new song in a new room.

25:27So, Bed Kim is in the bedroom on a heart-shaped pink satin bed that is an homage to the bed in Austin. I mean, every single thing is a reference in a layer of, you know, no detail is too small. And at some point, she sits on a heart-shaped toilet and performs a song, you know, one of the songs where she's crying about a boy. And as the set designer explained it to me there's heart-shaped soaps and like a clamshell dish that no one will see except her but it's there she feels like you know it's real there's a point at which she performs one of her sort of folkier songs and like a 60s conversation pit and kind of interacts with the audience down there but I mean everything is a reference like her references are so deep just not just musically.

26:21So it was fun to sort of unpack it after the fact. Beatlemania volume screaming, as I said in the piece, like just head splitting. And there's a moment, she has a very funny song. You know, listeners should look it up. It's about, it's called Dumb and Poetic, but there's this whole moment in it with Leonard Cohen. And so there's this moment where they lead into this song with this old Leonard Cohen footage. And then just to hear all these teen girls screaming this raunchy lyric about Leonard Cohen, I was so amused. I mean, it was so funny. What could make Leonard Cohen happier than to know that an arena full of teenage girls were looking at him and screaming?

27:08And somehow none of this seems like wrong, right? Like, I'm so interested in how she kind of wears this cheeky kind of playboy after dark persona. She seems to wear it really lightly. Like, it doesn't come across as forced or gross or any of that, right? Like, what's your take on how she sort of comes across the sort of ultra-feminine persona that she puts out there? She does wear it lightly. The music doesn't sound dangerous in that way. It doesn't sound kind of transgressive. It all sounds so retro, so it kind of sneaks up on you if you're not expecting it. And so, but it's very casually sexual.

27:45I'll say that. There are some scenes there where I was like, oh, my God, her father's sitting here like what's the problem? You know, like I just but she wears it lightly. I think that's a good description.