Serena Williams's New Normal Is About Confidence

0:03This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mal. And today we are revisiting a very historic moment, the very first episode of The Run-Through. We knew we had to launch the show with a major moment and a major person. So naturally, the perfect guest was the greatest of all time, the GOAT herself, Serena Williams. Choma and I did this interview back in 2022 when Serena announced her retirement on the cover of Vogue's September issue. And I have to say, she was so charming and lovely to talk to at her house in Florida. So I'm really excited to listen to this conversation again because it's been three years.

0:43But also, it was a big news moment again for Vogue with Serena last week because Serena announced with Vogue that she is on GLP-1s. She's on a drug called ZepBound, and she talks about how important it is to be honest and attentive to your body throughout this process. If you choose to do it, she's still in the gym all day. And as Margo Ambuba, who wrote the piece, notes, you don't get those six-pack abs from taking a GLP-1. She is clearly doing all the work. She's eating healthy. She just felt like she could never get back to the baseline she wanted to be after the birth of her two daughters.

1:28And it was very frustrating for her since her performance and her body performing had been such an important part of her life for so long. So it was interesting to hear that perspective on weight loss. And it became a big news moment because for better or for worse, people have been very focused on Serena's body for a long time. So I think that makes it even more interesting to talk to Serena, which three years ago, it was even closer to it was before the birth of her second daughter. And her first daughter, Olympia, was a bit younger. And so hearing her talk about motherhood and what she likes to do as a mother and with her kids is fun to look back on now.

2:06Here is our interview with Serena Williams. You will hear about motherhood and her role as a business powerhouse and venture capitalist with Serena Ventures. But here's something about Serena you might not know. I love comics. I don't know if anyone knows that about me. I've been in love with Marvel Universe for a very long time. time so obviously when Black Panther came out I already knew about it I've been following in particular I followed the Avengers for a while before the movies came out honestly it was animation that I followed and then the comics so I really kind of know all the back history and the backstory of all of them as a kid or like as you were older when did it start as a kid I was more into um DC comics okay so it goes way way way way back I mean I'm talking about the super old Superman from forever ago.

2:54But I think everyone fell in love with Marvel because they did so much with everything, you know, and they just started hammering out amazing movies. And so ever since I can remember, I've just been a fanatic of comics. And then through that, I just like, obviously started watching animated stuff and then fell in love with Black Panther too. I think everyone fell in love with Black Panther. I'm pretty much just a comic head. So I liked all the comics. And did your sister like them too? Like, was it a family thing? Yeah, she liked them too. We never really collected them, which was a shame, but she always kind of enjoyed them as well.

3:28And, you know, whenever you can kind of be a superhero in your mind, it just kind of is cool, you know, or you just have this feeling of something greater. I've heard you've said before that it's a tie between Iron Man and Black Panther as your favorite character. What is it about those two that really sticks out to you? What is it about superheroes that you find endlessly kind of captivating? Well, first of all, I love this conversation. Second, you know, one thing I love about the Marvel Universe is that a lot of their superheroes are just geniuses and things. I just really think that's really cool.

4:06And I mean, I like Black Panther because someone I can relate to, he's Black, and that was kind of cool. And it makes you think of Africa and what could have been Africa and if Africa was able to hold their resources, their natural resources. So yeah, you know it just makes you think I think the whole story of Wakanda just kind of makes you think I love Iron Man too because I mean he's Iron Man and he's awesome and and I love how he's a genius I love how his superpower is like his brain that just like it's more reasonable in terms of like okay my brain is not definitely not my superpower but I have a better chance of that being my superpower as opposed to like being able to fly you know so yeah I think I think I like Iron Man because he's someone that I think a lot of people can relate to more per se than not.

4:55Is Olympia into comics yet? She is. And so she wants to watch the Avengers, of course, because I still watch the animated stuff. And they always have new stuff coming out in way different storylines. And she's like, let's watch the Avengers. And I'm like, well, she's five. So maybe not. Might be a little mature. So she watched other superhero shows that are more age appropriate. room. Now let's flashback to when Black Panther first came out. It's a clip from the private screening you hosted. I'm glad you guys can make it out. Obviously, this is a huge moment for us and for, you know, Black people.

5:29We've never had a superhero movie, so we're so excited. I feel like I've waited my whole life for this, and we're happy that we got able to, with Black Girls Code, to bring you guys out and enjoy this amazing movie. So I'm glad you guys came. I love you Serena I love you too it was a super surprise they were super super excited and we just wanted to make kids smile and be happy and just have a black superhero it was really cool I have to say to so many people and to me included I think you've always been a superhero to watch you know and I think I was watching some of the clips of you as a little girl and the answers that you gave it was just incredible to see how much confidence and how much you were in your power at such a young age.

6:15I mean, it must be interesting to sort of see all those things resurfaced on social media and a lot of feelings come up, I'm sure. Yeah, I am too. Like, how did I say that? Like, why did I say those things at that age? Like, wow, that was so insightful. I always say I was way more mature when I was younger. But yeah, I don't know. I'm like looking at some of those videos and thinking, wow, what was I? how did I know to do some of those things? You know, it's, it's pretty, pretty mind blowing. Why do you think you were more mature when you were younger? Movies like Step Brothers wasn't funny to me, you know, and like.

6:53Yeah, you had an old soul, maybe. You know, I was like, but now I think it's the most hilarious thing. And I would be so serious back then. And now I just make jokes. So I'm like, yeah, I was serious before. So obviously, kind of love that you bring this obsession with superheroes into a fashion realm. Let's talk about your famous Wakanda catsuit, the one that you wore at the French Open. Tell me a little bit about where that idea came from and why you decided to sort of merge your two passions. Honestly, I can't take credit for that idea. Nike kind of came up with this fantastic bodysuit. And I've worn bodysuits before, but they were usually shorts.

7:32I just had Olympia and, you know, I was coming back and also I have a lot of issues with blood clots. And so, you know, I always wear like long pants when I'm practicing and playing at that point, because if you look back, I think Olympia was like six, seven months at the time. She was pretty young. Gosh, I can't believe I played when she was six months. Me neither. I'm impressed. Yeah. So basically it was more of a design to help me with that. And as well as it was, It was mostly for fashion. When I saw the design, I was just like, I've never worn anything like this. And then for the 2021 Met Gala, you wore an amazing Gucci version of a superhero outfit.

8:11It was like an all silver lace bodysuit with pink stars emblazoned on it and an ombre feather cape. It was sick. Yeah, I that I can take no credit for, but a little more because what they had was something super awesome in lace. And I was like, what if we did like this really cool bodysuit? And they were all about it. They thought it was a really good idea. And then they came up with like these stars and like they came up with the whole design and the cape was just insane. Like I look at that cape every day when I walk in my closet. So it was just like a wow moment. And it was, it was so like, it was superhero because it was kind of the inspiration.

8:52I mean, let's talk a little bit about Gucci because I think some of my favorite looks of yours have been Gucci and you've gone to the Gucci show and several times you're kind of a regular tell me a bit about what you love about going to fashion week and what it is like to sit front row at a Gucci show especially when you're when your daughter's also dressed as amazingly as you are you know that's so cool and you know for me I'm still like oh my goodness is this too much for her and then at one point I was like I don't know I don't know and I just would like okay give her the phone to look at because I'm like you know fashion is very avant-garde at times.

9:25And I'm like, okay, wait, did I think this through all the way? But ultimately, obviously I love Gucci. They're a really amazing brand. I think they really speak a lot of culture when they design and the thought process that they go through. And even talking to like the CEO and the Alessandro, the designer, it's just like, they love what they represent. And I think that's why they are so good at what they do, because they embrace what they represent and they love it. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood.

10:08There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

10:52way even when she was a baby it was like and my mom remember my mom saying she wants to pick out what she wears and she's literally always done that so I think she has like a fashion I think she has something fashion coming up for her well yeah I mean it definitely runs in the family does she have a comment on your looks does she ask to be dressed similarly because I think it's pretty adorable no no no I'm all about the Serena mommy Serena looks and so is she so now that I want to We're the same, same. She says, same, same. Oh, you describe yourself as always wanting to be perfect at everything, but that you're not a perfect mom and that it's been one of the biggest challenges and that you've been constantly trying to be better at that.

11:34What would you say has been the most surprising challenge about being a mom? Well, I think in the beginning and still now it's the guilt, especially in the beginning, you're like, you want to do so much with your baby. And then you realize that you can't because you still have to like live your life and stuff. And that's hard to like accept. But at the same time, it's like, all right, well, you know, you're doing your best and there's nothing wrong with doing your best and your best can't actually do everything. Right. You know, and the guilt is real, like the guilt of missing something or that's hard to like kind of put in words, but it's, It's something that's not very easy, but it's also normal.

12:16And I think just understanding that that's normal is super helpful. Right. Do you have like coaches for motherhood? Do you have people that you go to and ask for advice? My mom, you know, I've obviously always cherished and loved my mom a lot, but I feel like ever since I had a child, it's a different relationship because it's like that woman knows what she's talking about, you know? And if I ever, ever doubted anything, it's like I asked her, especially when Olympia was younger, it's like, she's sick or she's this and what do I do? Being a mom is so much about you just basically, you know how to swim, but you're just thrown in the deep end and you just have to swim and you have to survive.

12:56And that's kind of how it is. And so relying on, you know, a network of people that have been moms or have experiences been really, really helpful for me. you've described yourself as above all i'm just a mom do you feel like your sense of identity has shifted as you move to focus more on your family away from tennis like i loved in the vogue piece you open talking about how olympia is asking for a sister does that feel like more who you are going to be or does it always remain different parts of you that sort of exist side by side Gosh, I don't know. I think it's, you know, that saying too soon, too soon.

13:35Yeah. It's too soon. And I'm trying to figure out, like I just was talking to Olympia. I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to take at least, because I'm still running a whole business. I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to take one day off a week where I'm with you and I just work on my phone at break times and I'm not necessarily taking calls. I'm still, it's a still work in progress because I do run a company and I'm just trying to figure out how. how to make that the best, you know? And so, but at the same time, I've been working my whole life. So I'm also like, I really want to spend time with Olympia.

14:08So yeah, I'm still trying to find that balance. Like if you take a day a week off, what does that look like with you in Olympia? What does she love to do with you? What's the ideal itinerary for a fun day together? I don't know. She loves to play babies where we just sit and talk babies and we have little dolls like Kwe Kwe. yes the book we love the book thank you and then we just literally pretend and it's just like maybe not my favorite game but you know it's hers and so that's what matters yeah tell us a bit more about kwekwe and the book and how did olympia help so olympia thinks the character in the book is her and i'm like it's not really you because olympia the baby in the book is like seven and you're five and you just turned five and she's like no that's me and so it's really funny and then she gets a little upset when I say that it's not her but I just think it's the funniest thing ever so because I remember when I was young we had to use our imagination so much you know and so it'd be really good to have a book where you know we're really using our imagination and then not only that just believing in yourself and then like having your dog because I always I grew up talking to dolls my whole life.

15:19And I loved dolls growing up. I know, me too. And my dolls like would tell me things and, you know, it was like your imaginary friend. So I felt like a lot of kids would be able to relate to that, especially moms that are talking or dads reading them stories at night. And so I thought it was really a good way to kind of segment to a different chapter of Kwe Kwe and what she was doing. I mean, I love that Kwe Kwe probably has more followers than most influencers like were you surprised at the response or was it what you just sort of felt intuitively that this would strike a chord with people yeah I'm always surprised you know it's always like oh my goodness I really can't believe this but that's just me and you're just so grateful you know to like even have that opportunity but Quakeway has so many followers it's like seriously, it's a name, right?

16:11And so, and so many people say that they love the doll and, you know, having a black doll, how cool it is that actually is, you know, a character and it's just different, you know? And so that's what we wanted to do. And that was, and it worked out. And for the most part, it's just been really interesting to have, have it all kind of come together. You're extremely busy. It's just one of many things on your plate. I'm really curious about Serena Ventures and which companies you're currently investing in. And I loved reading about how you went to a conference and were shocked by the tiny percentage of investment in black and female companies and that that sort of inspired you to start this, that you wanted to change what that percentage looked like.

16:52Yeah. So for me, I've always been investing. Actually, a lot of people don't know. I've invested in a lot of companies. I think in my personal portfolio, it's like 70 something companies. And I've been doing that for 10 years now. And so a few years ago, I went to a conference and this lady was on stage and she mentioned that less than 2 % at the time of women got VC money. I actually thought she misspoke. Wow. Because my mind literally couldn't understand that that was a true fact. And because I'm thinking there's billions and honestly over a trillion of dollars, right, of money that's being invested in particular when it comes to VC.

17:28I talked to her after and she was like, no, this is true, Serena. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Embarrassed. And then, wow, I had no idea. And so kind of prior to that, one of my mentors told me I need to, if I want to be a better investor, I need to like have a thesis, like invest for a reason. And I didn't have a reason. I just liked to invest in companies. I liked early startup. And so I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'm - That's good advice. Yeah, it was really good advice. And so literally after he told me that it was like a week later or two weeks later that I ran into this and I was like, this is what needs to happen.

18:02but I need to, the only way to change that 2 % number is to have women writing checks and writing the big checks and having women invest. Because like attracts like. And the reason I think that number is so different from between 98 % going to one type and then less than 2 % is going either women and people of color is because like attracts like, it's mostly men writing the checks, it's mostly men doing the investing. And there's a ton of women that do it. And so for me, in order to change that is chain, is to start at the top of the chain and just have women write checks. But at the same time, we invest in everybody because I feel like diversity is really important.

18:37Yeah. And I feel like there are firms out there that only invest in women and only invest in people of color. We invest in everyone.

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19:16You've talked about mentors and inspirations in tennis, Venus, Billie Jean King. Are there new women as you're getting older looking to new things that are sort of new mentors for you that you're really looking to for advice or just for inspiration? There's so many women mentors that I have and that I do lean on. And with that being said, I have a ton of male mentors as well that really has grabbed my hand and helped me through it. And I think some of the point that's missed often is we need not only women to believe in us, but we also need men to believe in us as well because they're in different positions and they can advocate for us in a different way.

19:53So I think it's important to have mentors in both and you can learn and see different points of view from both angles. Well, you have some in-house help too. I forget about your wonderful husband who's always on the sidelines and is an incredible delight. You know, I try not to go for him for too much or else I would be only talking business with him. So we really keep it very separate. But every now and then I'll be like, babe, do you, what do you think about this company? And he'll tell me the history and I'll be like, okay, thanks. And that's literally it. And he doesn't ask my advice too much, but as he shouldn't, he's like a mega star in this industry.

20:31But yeah, so it's, yeah, it's pretty fun. What does a day-to-day look like for you now? I don't know. Too soon, too soon. As of now, too soon. I'm still working on my day-to-day. I think it'll take me at least, you know, eight months to get to my day-to-day because I've been doing what I've been doing for 40 years. So I give myself a year to get to my normal. But yeah, I definitely work. I went for a run today because I'm like, I want to stay fit. I want to stay fit. Oh, and Venus asked me to hit with her because she's still on tour. And she's like, do you want to work on vacation? She's like, will you hit with me there?

21:07And I'm like, absolutely cringing, but I'm like, I'll do it. So do you think you'll be working for fitness? Like what's the workout plan after you don't have to work out as your job. Right? I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out now. Like, what is that plan? And what is that like happy medium? Because I definitely want to stay fit. And then I'm like, darn, I can't eat everything now because I'm not practicing. I'm not playing five hours a day. So I'm like, okay, that's why I'm like drinking this big gallon thing of water. I never get through those things. I usually don't, but I would say I get through 50 % of the time, which is not bad.

21:50It's good. Right. I don't know. I'm just like trying to figure out my new normal, but I'm excited. I'm really excited to figure out my new normal and spend time with Olympia. And I want to take a vacation where I don't travel with tennis rackets, even though Venus wants me to travel with tennis rackets for this vacation. well-deserved vacation well-deserved yeah well we're gonna let you go and but we just want to thank you so so much for chatting with us we've been really looking forward to it and it's such a treat and we have two goofy questions to ask you before you leave what's your biggest fashion faux pas or like biggest fashion regret that you have i don't have fashion regrets oh good answer Fashion is about time.

22:33And then like the things you wore in the 90s or the 2000s, I should say, that was cool at the time. And it was amazing. And to cringe maybe now, but it's going to be back in style. And then we're going to look back a long time ago and say, wow, we looked good. And wow, you know, so I don't have any fashion regrets. And I've worn some really awful things. But you know, that's what I was expressing at the time. And I'm leaning into that. That is the right answer. And we have one more. If you had to pick one piece of clothing to bring to a desert island, what would it be? It can't be my phone. No, no technology.

23:10No. Piece of clothing, fashion. I would do like a wrap, like just a lot of material. All right, that's smart. So I can make a dress out of it. I can make a skirt out of it. I can make a sarong out of it. There's so many ways I could go with it. And then I could even cut it. I can make myself a knife and cut it and design them. Dude, that's a designer in me. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sharina. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you.

23:44The Run-Thru is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of global audio.