Spike Lee on Highest 2 Lowest, How He Finds New Talent, and Loving the WNBA

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Leah Faye Cooper, taking over for Chloe and Chioma today. I had the pleasure and honor of speaking with Spike Lee. His newest film Highest to Lowest to Lowest is in theaters now if you have not seen it. It is fantastic. It is a reinterpretation of the 1963 film High and Low by Akira Kurosawa. And it's a really, really fun watch. Spike and I chatted over Zoom. He was in his Fort Greene office. I loved, loved, loved this storyline. I loved the father-son dynamic between Denzel Washington and his son in the movie. The fashion was great. There was some Pharrell Louis Vuitton.

0:49There was some Cartier. Lots of lots of good things. A$AP was in the film. He was wonderful. I interviewed A$AP for the May cover of Vogue and one of our four covers for the MacGal issue. And he spoke about how excited he was to be in the film. We also got to see Denzel Spike and A$AP at Cannes. And they looked great. Like, they were having a great time on the red carpet when it premiered there. So, great, great, great film. Spike and I also spoke about some of his favorite spots in Brooklyn, where he gets his coffee, where he likes to go shopping, where he likes to hang out. So, without further ado, here is Spike Lee on The Run-Through.

1:36Hello. Welcome to The Run-Through, Spike. It's so nice to have you. It is nice to be with you, sister. Thank you so much. Where are you right now? I'm in my office. The world headquarters of Four Acres of Mule, Fort Greene, Brooklyn, and the People's Republic of Brooklyn, New York. Nice, nice. Well, I saw Highest to Lowest last night. In the theater? In the theater, of course. Well, you went to Alamo? Where'd you go? No, I went to Village East. Cool. Were you the only one in the theater? No, it was full. Good, good, good. It was full. And I loved it. Thank you very much. For those who have not seen it, what is your brief synopsis?

2:18This is the fifth film from the dynamic duo, Dee and Lee. Batman and Robin, and I'm Robin.

2:35And happy about it. Absolutely. Absolutely. So D is Denzel Washington. It's been a while since you guys worked together. 19 years. Oh, my goodness. So how did this... Inside mail. Nice. How did this come about? There was a script going around for years, and it ended, you know, in Denzel's possession. He read it, thought of me, called me up and said, I'm sending you something. Hope you like it. And then before I even hung up the phone, I knew I was doing it. Okay. We had to get the gang back together. Nice, nice, nice. And what has changed since you guys last worked together? We got older. 19 years.

3:19How has that changed your working process? Anything about the dynamic change? No, you know, that's a very good question. It was like we didn't have to renew anything. It was like Inside Man was yesterday, not 19. We didn't have to relearn or not. We were in sync, so it wasn't even a problem. Now, A$AP Rocky, tell us about that casting. I actually wrote his Vogue cover for May and spent some time with him, and he was really excited about it, yes. Tremendous breath as an actor. You know, one of these parts you had for the film, I gave him a big hug and said, your next role, you cannot play a rapper.

4:06I said, you cannot play a rapper. He agreed. He cannot let industry box him in, especially at this young stage of his career. He has so much death with, so he could do anything. But I said, brother, don't do it. Your next film, you're not going to be playing a rapper. He dug all the same. Jeffrey Wright, too, is also phenomenal in this film. A giant. He was so, so, so wonderful. I actually, even though I knew he was in the movie, it took me a while to realize that was him. He doesn't repeat stuff. He comes into that role and like you just said, you know it's him. Something else that was gorgeous in the film was the art collection.

4:53Were there any pieces from your personal collection? Well, mine just is the collection of Tanya and Spike Lee. Yes, you and your lovely wife. Yeah, well, there's a lot of stuff. It weren't the originals. We made copies of the stuff. Because them crewels are notorious for tearing shit up. Okay. So the copies were made of fine art. And then once we finished shooting, we destroyed those copies. Okay. What was your specific piece that you saw on the walls, on the sky-high penthouse? Yes. Of the kings? Yes. I liked the three-panel Basquiat. Yep. I don't own that one. I loved that. I also really loved all the covers that were mocked up with King on them.

5:50Yeah, we had to convey to the audience that he's a giant. So it's shorthand. Just put it on the wall and the audience would see that. Yeah. Rolling Stone, a whole bunch of stuff. And Black Enterprise. David King has the, you know, best years in the business. Best years in the business. And he said it like three times in the movie too. Yes, he does. Something I picked up on was when they would tell their son that they loved, or their son would say, I love you, they would say, I love you more. But there was one time when he didn't say it, which was when they weren't sure if they were going to get the money back.

6:29You know what? I did not know that. I got to look at the film again. And you know what? That hints to the genius of Denzel. That's hit me. That was not a mistake. That was Denzel. That's the type of giant he is. He does stuff that you don't see right away, but multiple viewers are like, I'm going to spell it how it sounds. D-A-Y-U-M. D-E-E-N-F.

7:01Deep. There's the washer. It's a blessing. Five times. Mo' Better Blues. Malcolm X. He got game. Inside Man. And 19 years later. High syllabus. 19 years later. Oh, let me do it again.

7:21We'll be right back with Spike Lee after a quick break.

7:34Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

8:10All right, fashion also plays a big role in a lot of your films. You have a signature look yourself, the hat, the glasses, lots of NYX gear. I want the blue skies. I want the blue skies. This is our year. This is our year. I was going to ask, is this the year? How are you feeling about Mike Brown and Jordan Cleggson? Well, look, I got love for Coach Tibbs. You know, it's a tough business. So we haven't won since the 1972-73 season. But those keeping scored home, that's more than 50 years. It's been a while. A minute, you know. So through the grace of God and the basketball of God, we gotta at least make it to the finals this year at least the finals and I say that fortified by the horrible injuries to my brother Jason Tatum so I don't want nobody to get hurt but injuries are part of the sport and we gotta take advantage of this what do you make of the athletes really dressing up for the games now I'm old.

9:25Wolf Fraser used to come. I mean, he's still styling and profiling. But I mean, right now, it wasn't a level back then. I mean, Phil Jackson used to ride his bike to the garden, you know. Right. But, oh, you know what? The ladies are killing it now. Oh, the ladies are killing it. Yes. The ladies are killing it. They are. Killing it without the G at the end. What? Not the G to possibly. The ladies are killing it. It's like. Oh, yes. Killing it. Yeah. Yeah, they are. The WNBA, the WNBA is really exciting right now. Oh, yeah. The ladies are killing it. They're killing it. You know, and it's a beautiful thing.

10:09We had a lot of them. We had some of them at the Met Gala, which you attended. How was that? How was your night? It was a great night. But the Knicks were at the Garden that night. They were. I got a lot of heat going to the McGill instead of my courtside tickets at the world's most famous arena. Oh, they were hating on me. What kind of fan are you, Spike? You're not even at the game. Well, we're so happy that you made it. And Tanya looked amazing. Thank you. If I didn't go to McGill, they might not have seen me anymore.

10:55I've been cut off What was your reaction to hearing about the theme and that this year's Met was going to be celebrating Black Dandyism About goddamn time I was the only one who thought that either I was not the only one Better late than never as some people say Have you gotten a chance to see the exhibit? Did you see it that night? Oh yeah You'd get to sit down and eat They kept you walking around before You could sit there and it locked off And unlock The dining room was unlocked It was a big night, it was a historical night And also I was the only one that had the game On our phones You know what I will not name names But I may have seen a few other people Russell Wilson I'm named him Russell I'm sorry I put you on blast And you're a tenured graduate film professor at New York University Tisch School of the Arts I'm the artistic director of the graduate film school in NYU so I went there, Ang Lee and Ernest Dixon I have a classmate, Jim John was a couple years ahead of us so I loved, I got my late mother was a teacher so that's where I came from illustrious, illustrious She taught at St.

12:19Anne's, Broken Heights, for many, many years. Oh, my niece goes there. Yeah, great private school. What is some advice that you give your students to make their film theirs? Oh, first day. First day, I didn't talk about film. First, I talk about work ethic. Work ethic. I mean, I dropped that sign throughout the whole semester, but I got hit with work ethic first day of class. And what specifically do you say about work ethic? I make understand that for those who are speaking Spanish at home, they got to bust their culo. Don't come in here thinking like you're going to be the next motherfucker.

13:00It don't work like that. You got to work. You got to put the work in. You got to put the work. You got to put the work in.

13:14We're going to take a quick break. More with Spike in a moment. Thank you.

13:48New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

13:58I mean, you've been making films for a long time, and there's a lot of talk right now about the film industry. It's always been obviously competitive, but being particularly challenging right now, especially with streaming and all these different formats. What do you make of where we are right now, like in Hollywood, in the state of filmmaking? Well, I think it's a state of flux. Like, people are scared. They want the executives in Hollywood and also streaming. But for me, me specifically, I want as many people to see Highest and Lowest in the theaters before they see it September 5th on Apple TV+.

14:39See in the theaters first also I'd like to say understand that it's been somewhat difficult to find theaters near you but I appreciate the people who contacted me said some people driven as many two hours the nearest theater and I really really appreciate you because that's asked a lot how many people drive two hours I don't care what the movie is but thank you very much thank you thank you thank you you know that reminds me they did a screening of Sinners in Mississippi like near you know where the film was based because there was no theater there right and you talked about really enjoying that movie what was it about it that film in particular that resonated with you it was unique great storytelling and that immutable sequence, that's the one made me jump out of my seat.

15:42I mean, that is genius. Genius. Yeah, I love that film. I have to go back. I only saw it once, but I think that's something you need to see multiple times. Now, in Highest to Lowest, I was looking for you, and I did not see you. I'm semi-retired. Okay. Are we going to see you again? I was looking, I was like, maybe he's going to be in the parade, which I have to say, I loved the Eddie Palmieri. That was... The late, great Eddie Palmieri salsa orchestra. That was amazing. That's a set piece. And that was still live. That was not done to playback. Wow. And I think we did seven, eight takes. And Eddie wanted to keep going.

16:29Eddie, we got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. Don't worry. We got it. He wanted to keep going. Oh, my gosh. My band. That's who done, though. That's who done. And they're like, oh. They're about to say, Kyle. My parents are born and raised in Harlem, and my uncle is a huge Eddie Palmieri fan and has seen him, I mean, more times than, like, anyone can count, probably. Is he with this now? My uncle? Yeah. Yeah. Did you take him to, has he seen the film yet? You know what? I went to see a late showing yesterday, but I'm not. You've got to take him. I'm going to call, yeah, I know. I got to call him and see.

17:07I'm not sure if he's seen it yet. This weekend, please. Yeah, I'm not sure if he's seen it yet, but he's going to be so excited. Yes, this film premiered, I'm not talking about Cannes, but here, like, three or four days before Eddie left us. one of my

17:28most cherished moments in all the films you know doing that with the great Eddie Palmer in the salsa orchestra yeah that was so special and nice to have Rosie Perez and Anthony Ramos in that scene yeah you know how to put some more Puerto Ricans in I also love the the way you captured going to a Yankees game because getting on the train and going up to Yankee Stadium on game day is an experience. Especially also, you know the Red Sox here this weekend. Yeah. Did you know that? I did not know. They're here this weekend. Wouldn't it be crazy if people seen the film and on their way to the game suddenly they're on the subway because they saw the film and they start cheering plus the sun.

18:15I hope somebody films that. I would not be surprised. We might see that. We might see that on Instagram. Yes, I hope so. I should get Nick DeTaro to start on the train. I'm going to find out if Nick is in New York. I'm going to say, Nick, you got to see what we did. You got to do it on the game. Well, social media, that was a big part of this story. Are you on Instagram a lot? Yes, I am. I'll tell you what's good about Instagram. Back in the day, way back in the day before this technology If you were a young artist, you had to move to New York or L.A. Madonna, David Byrne, they could have not moved here before it ran in New York City.

19:06And it's therefore, with this technology, displaying your talent, like Ayanna Lee, who sings the finale, end of the film, Instagram. That's where you first saw her? Yes. Wow. And Mrs. Jess McRae, who's, I call her, Black Joni Mitchell, who stops Denzel going into the lobby. With the guitar. Her also Instagrammed. Wow. So all technology is not bad. All right. But something we talked about on this film, one of the very first scenes, Denzel's character on the sun, like, how many hours do you spend on this? Yeah. That was really as the older generation speaks to the younger generation, and now 10 hours on this a day cannot be good.

20:08No. It's for brains that are forming at the age, it is not good at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have to comment on that. Yeah. Okay, I'd love to talk about some of your Brooklyn faves. So, do you drink coffee? Yes. Okay, what's your favorite coffee shop in Brooklyn? I get the guy in the car. Okay. Favorite movie theater? The Spike Lee Theater at Alamo, downtown Brooklyn. Anyone in the theater is a Spike Lee Theater. Do you have a favorite, like, retail store? Nike Town. Okay. Favorite restaurant? Well, I love Junior's Cheesecake. You do? Yeah. What is your order? You get the classic or you get one of the juiced up ones?

20:51Just plain, plain. Okay. Black person decal. And also, I love Steve's Key Lime Pie. Red Hook. Oh, yum. You ever had Steve's Key Lime Pie? Yes, I have. It's delicious. Red Hook. It's delicious. Red Hook. What's like the most underrated place in Brooklyn? Well, it was Sal's Famous Pizzeria, but Mookie threw the garbage can in the window and this shit got burned down. Oh, right. Famously. What is your favorite park? I think I know this. Fort Greene Park. Right. Central Park's next, then Prospect Park. That was a rhetorical question. Well, thank you. All right. Well, thank you, sister. Thank you so much.

21:36That's it for the run-through. See you Thursday.

21:49The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of global audio.

22:08From PRX.