Styling Charli XCX’s Brat Universe with Chris Horan

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Jose Crealizunsueta, filling in today for Nicole Phelps. I am so excited to be joined by my dear friend Chris Horan, the stylist of the moment. Chris worked with Charlie XCX to style and be basically the architect of the brat aesthetic, which has had a massive impact on pop culture over the past year, as you've definitely seen. Chris and I recorded this conversation right after the devastating fires in LA, when Chris and his partner worked organizing to help the communities impacted by the fires. Chris and I actually recorded this conversation the morning after he had evacuated.

0:37So he was calling in from a friend's house. We talked about his early days as a stylist, from styling some famous Disney girls to styling Charlie XCX, creating the brat look, and of course, my major Charlie XCX Halloween costume. And here is my conversation with Chris Horan.

0:57Chris, what's up? Thank you for being on the run through. How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good, all things considered. so I'm safe and Pete is safe and we're staying at a friend's house up north so we're good I think yeah we're really grateful. So for context for our listeners you are well you live in LA with your partner Pete. Yes. I've also seen a lot of the really incredible community activations you guys have both been doing can you tell us a little bit about you know what Pete has been doing what you have been doing with other stylists or with just the community in general?

1:30Yeah I think kind of i think that's like been the most amazing thing about la or like i mean i guess the whole everyone is helping but i think the community wise there's like so many people who have just started amazing fundraisers and drives and so on my end we just knew obviously clothing was like the easiest way and then a few pr companies actually kcd and people reached out and were like oh there's also So Elizabeth Stewart's doing this and like Lindsay Hartman's doing this. And we all kind of joined efforts. And that has actually turned into this huge, massive thing where like the Palladium and Milk Studios and people have offered to give space.

2:10And I think we're going to do a big event actually on February 5th at the Palladium where it will be like a benefit. So it's all kind of just like took off because so many people have been helpful and so many brands have been helpful to us. And then on Pete's end, he's just been a lot of the Altadena, like a lot of the black and brown families that have been displaced. That's kind of been Pete's like effort and kind of aggregating all of these different family names and finding out how we can help direct. So it's been I feel like it's just been like that's been the positive thing about it is like maybe this past year it's felt a little like, you know, stressful with the climate of the world.

2:49and then to have like community show up like that, I think has been like a positive part about all of this. Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree. I think it's, especially I think on the fashion side and, you know, seeing what you are doing or even, you know, Charlie XCX for our listeners who, you know, you work with all the time. I saw that she posted on Instagram. It was like, you know, as a person in the public eye, people send me stuff all the time, but I would ask brands to reconsider sending stuff to me and donating them, which I think is really incredible, right? brands always have a couple samples laying around, a couple things allocated for gifting for celebrities, influencers, editors, stylists, whatnot.

3:27And there's people that actually could use a lot of that instead of us. Yeah, 100%. And Charlie, she messaged me and was like, I saw you're doing this. Let me know how I can amplify or what I can do. And then she's just been really supportive and amazing, of course, as always. Yeah, of course. I love that. That's really great to hear. So let's talk a little bit now about you working with Charlie. When did you start working with her? In 2021. So about four years ago. An OG. Yeah, like kind of around this, I guess, yeah, similar time to now, maybe a few months closer to spring. But yeah, at the start of her crash era, that is when I...

4:12You loved crash. Me too. So yeah, that was kind of the first thing. Nice. So before we sort of really go into the brat of it all, which we really want to hear you talk about How did you get started in styling? I think it's like, you know, people love stylists people love to hear from stylists But even everyone who wants to be a stylist doesn't really understand exactly how it works how to get there So can you demystify a little bit? Mine is the worst story I think because mine is so not normal I feel like That probably makes it a good story though Okay. Um, so I grew up in Thousand Oaks, which is like 45 minutes outside of LA.

4:50Right. And so it's a suburb and it's close by location, but like when you're growing up, I might as well have lived in like Arizona or somewhere, you know what I mean? Like we didn't go into the city that often or, so I dated someone when I was in high school, like end of high school. And he had a family friend who was a stylist and was like I had always been very into obviously fashion that was like my like superlative was based around you know what I mean like I was always into right I it was this was like right before Rachel Zoe had a tv show or anything like that where it had become this like more public facing before it was a thing that people knew existed yeah so I basically thought you were either like a magazine editor or a designer and I was like right kind of like well I don't I wasn't so much like I need to move to New York or I didn't want to move to New York so anyways he was like you should intern for her and I did the summer I graduated and I became her assistant for a very short time and that was it like I literally just was like and she doesn't even style anymore she did like a lot of like music videos like for like the first things we did were like the fame the like movie the musical that they remade into a movie and the music videos for that and then she had a lot of the twilight people but like everyone but rob and kristen so it was like a lot of like so um yeah so that's kind of how i started and i just like fell in love with it but it was kind of like a you know rough it also wasn't the most it was hard so i feel like i was working at nordstrom and working with her and then just by living in la and going out more I met someone who was a publicist for a Disney girl who was having her own show come out and it was Debbie Ryan and then that was like my first ever client so that's so fab yeah so I'm curious like because you mentioned sort of the idea of being either a designer or magazine editor like to me it was kind of similar and that's actually why I ended up going into design first and I was a designer for a couple years before I was like I don't really want to do this and I ended up in the marketing world.

6:56How did you first realize what a stylist was? Like obviously, you know, Rachel Zoe, for a lot of people younger than us, that came, you know, there was TV, there was reality stuff that sort of illuminated all these career paths. But how did you realize what a stylist was? I mean, so that kind of was the moment when he was like, oh, I have this friend, this is what they do. And I kind of like clicked in my head because I was like, oh, well, like I love entertainment and I honestly like I feel like I was kind of like I wasn't that when you're I don't know when you're a teenager like I just was like oh I don't know if I could even be a magazine editor because you're it's kind of like so outside of your world that it's like right like the entertainment element made me feel somehow more comfortable like I could achieve it quicker so I that's kind of what happened more closer to home I guess yeah and obviously fashion like I was obsessed with but it has like a scary exterior so I feel like I was just like I don't know if I could ever like fit in that world so I felt like the entertainment part just seemed a lot more easy and it was also where I lived so that's kind of how it all that's what it was and then once I did it I was like I'm this is what I want to do 100 % nice who are some other people you sort of started um styling like earlier on so i became once i worked with debbie i was like a by the by the way i'm like this is what i was saying i have a very non i'm the worst story for this because i was like 20 when i got debbie so i was like a baby and so she i dressed her for the teen vogue young hollywood party and it was when neta porta was still the sponsor or was a sponsor of it and And I dressed her for that.

8:33And then it like got on the weekly magazine next to like Haley Steinfeld. So then I was like, oh, I'm good at this. Because like it was like, I'm doing something. I'm actually, I'm a thing. And so then she requested me to Disney. And then I just became this, the like Disney girl for a little bit. Like they would do all these. Not you being a Disney child star. Well, literally. I also was a child. So I was a child. So, but it was amazing. I love all of these. All of the people at Disney were actually so great. and I'm still friends with them. But they would come to me every time they had a new show.

9:06So I literally worked with like Dove Cameron, like all these people before us. Then I got Rowan and Sabrina for Girl Meets World and that was like, I dressed both of them. I dressed the whole cast of that for their press tour and then Rowan and I just really hit it off. And so, Rowan Blanchard, sorry. And so Rowan was kind of my first client that I feel like she was like 12 years old that she just like had it. Like when she was like, she's put on things and would just be like, yes, I love it or whatever. And so that was kind of like the first client that really like went there with me fashion wise.

9:44And it kind of gave me confidence in return to be like, okay, no, like we're gonna try things. And you know, we did a, Rowan was like going to Chanel Couture's when she was like 15. And like, it was like impressive. So I'm still very into that. That's so fab. And then after that, I kind of was like, once I had a, you know, bigger portfolio of all these people and some of those girls took off and did like, you know, Rowan did a Mew Mew campaign or it kind of like started to establish me outside of that circle of, you know, obviously we love those girls, but like I didn't want to, I didn't want to work as a Disney stylist forever.

10:20So. Right. You also needed to grow up eventually. Actually, what was that transition sort of like your coming of age outside of Disney and into, you know, now you sort of do Charlie, you do Christina Aguilera, which is fab for someone our age who grew up with. Yeah, literally. We'll talk about that in a minute. But what was sort of that transition like? Honestly, a lot of it happened like pretty organically as far as like word of mouth, even being with an agency or anything like that. I feel like a lot of what people probably don't, I mean, maybe they do and maybe they don't, but like, it's a lot about just relationships is the biggest thing.

10:55And I think in general, like relationships help you get new clients, but also relationships and just personality is kind of what drives. I think it's like 50 % creative, 50 % personality, because if you think about just talent in general, they don't, they're spending time, you're spending time with people and they already have insane lives. So I feel like a lot of times it's about like, who do I want to be around that's going to be? And I feel like that's such a big part of styling that people don't think about because you're kind of like you're doing a service, but you're also like a big part of these people's like downtime when they're supposed to be relaxed and kind of I don't know.

11:31Yeah. So I think a lot of it was word of mouth. Like Rowan was friends with Barbie Ferreira and then Rowan recommended me to Barbie. And so then I dressed Barbie for Euphoria. That was like one of the things that happened. And then I also like things like working with basically Chelsea Peretti. She saw how Rowan was dressing, which is amazing because Rowan was like 13 at the time. And she was like, I like this girl's style. So she like found out that I was working with her. She reached out to me. And then like, so that was like one thing. And then she was like, can you dress my boyfriend at the time, Jordan Peele, who's now her husband, like for the Emmys.

12:09And then that snowballed, like all these like small things kind of happened. And then those people, all their careers kind of like moved along and it just kind of kept helping push me out there a little bit further and further. Right. I love that. And then Charlie, they had reached out to me because they liked how I had been styling Barbie and Rowan was like the thing that had them reach out.

12:35More with Chris Horan after the break.

13:12So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

13:27And we're back. We sort of, we texted a little bit about this, but there was, every year, well, starting last year, well, starting 2023, actually, I do a Vogue Runway industry poll. So I sent out a poll of questions about, you know, the year in fashion to some of our, you know, stylists, PRs, photographers, designers, whatnot. And this year we asked about the best dressed performer and Charlie was crowned the best dressed performer. And there was a line there that I really loved that someone sort of submitted as an opinion that was like, this was amazing because Chris, Style and Charlie sort of was able to fold in so many brands that we love into the brat universe.

14:08Like, when else are you going to see Rodarte at the club, at the rave, which I thought was kind of, which is true. Like, you know, Rodarte is like such a beautiful sort of like dainty, fairy-like brand. And then all of a sudden it's on stage at like the sweat tour, you know, which is kind of amazing. So tell me about that process of, you know, working with brands to sort of fill in or, you know, work into the Brat universe or into the Charlie narrative. Well, also, I mean, Kate and Laura, just a shout. I mean, they were the first designers to ever like really support me. And like for Rowan, actually.

14:44And I just loved them so much. And they were always. Shout out to Rodante. Shout out to Rodante. I love working with them, too. But the bra, it kind of started, it really like snowballed because we were going to just do one outfit per show. And so in my mind, it was afterwards. Yes. And so I was like, OK, like this will be like, I don't know, we'll need 23 outfits or whatever. And so I think we kind of were like, OK, we'll like ask the people. And then it just I think we talked about it snowballed because Troy was going to do like five outfits. And then we were like, OK, we're doing and then we ended up with seven somehow.

15:20And I was like, I don't know where that happened. But I think the thing that was amazing was we, you know, used the last couple of years to build fashion momentum. So I feel like with Crash, the difference is like we were kind of like, A, playing more of a character because it was this like sexy pop star thing. But also, Charlie wasn't really like that established in the fashion world during that time. Like we had some, but I feel like by the time we got to Brat, we had made more real relationships. So, and then it obviously started taking off quickly. Like obviously in June when it came out or even before that, like Von Dutch and 360, I think brands were already like telling that this was kind of very exciting.

16:03I think obviously the album, like the summer, it like happened a little bit later, but we kind of got people who were like, we want to be a part of it quickly. And so that really just helped us. So I was just like, let's just like go for it and see. like I think I was just in my mind I'm like we're gonna have events or performances for the next year so let's just like make a ton of things and yeah that's kind of how it happened I mean you it was when we were working on that story about the sweat tour was sort of like you know I was going through all the credits and I don't there it was it was like you know what list the sort of like their index of the hottest brands in fashion basically like you and Charlie created your own Like, to me, I was like, if you dress Charlie, you're a brand that, like, matters in a way, right?

16:47You're a brand that people want to sort of see, which was really special. Yeah. Because, again, everyone from Rodarte to Westwood to, you know, Saint Laurent. It's a Christian Dior game. Dior, girl. Listen, that's what I'm saying. I love it. You've got to have some surprises, you know? You've got to keep the girls surprised. Yeah, you've got to keep the girls on their toes. Well, you also have a tour, like a solo tour that she's embarking on pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. That's going to be, it's in the works. But I also, you know, speaking of sort of touring and all of that, I also want to talk about the people attending the tour.

17:25Which I thought was pretty fab about the brat of it all is that it also became kind of like, because brat means something so specific, but also nothing at all. Like there's such a fun ambiguity to it also style-wise that it allowed people to sort of become brat in their own way to attend the tour, right? And I remember, you know, when we spoke about it too, you sort of mentioned this idea that a big part of it is that it feels real. Like she looks, like Charlie looks like she's wearing her own clothes all the time, right? So like it inspires people to also do the same. um can you like did you expect people to sort of emulate charlie so much through the brat era to the tour or like sort of what was your impression of i thought well i think it's yeah i think it's interesting because i think that well first of all like i love that was like my favorite one of my favorite parts was just like seeing people like while we were on shows and like walking around and seeing people in outfits or recreating i think it's like very there's like nothing more exciting than that because i feel like you like made something that people want to like you know be be which i think is i mean it's really made me very like emotional but i think i do think that we i think that we we weren't like setting out to do that but we did set out to be like there's this level of like it's really like down casual like it's either like baggy jeans and converse and a nice jacket for so i think we kind of knew that it was a lot more accessible just because that's what we were playing you know what i mean like i think in some way i don't think we thought like black tights in a Weinstein tank top thing was going to become like, you know what I mean?

19:02Like I don't, I think you can't really like say that that's going to become something. But I think it was a really smart thing that no one planned to be able to make it so simple that people could recreate like endless versions of something. Right, it's also like a culture, right? Like it's a pocket of culture, like going out, raving, like all of these things, like going for the, like dressing for the club. But speaking of, you know, black tights, tiny shorts and a wine state tank what did you think of my halloween i was gonna say wait we need to talk about the iconic i thought yours was honestly top five thank you it's an honor to be nominated of course i was dead when you said that video i'm like it was so good and love well this was also like you know for context for an audience like the last time we sort of talk about you know the interview we're referring to was happened like the week of halloween like right before yeah so i was like okay if i wear two what should i do you literally told me like you were like girl first of all like you just need a wine stay tanked literally and some black tights and also like you have half of that stuff in your closet i'm like you know turns out you're right like i had that some like you know good sunglasses uh a moogler like corset hoodie like you know literally it's there which is kind of what's fab i know exactly i feel like that was i mean i honestly that was i think probably like i'm sure there's tons of people who are not like diehard brat fans but i feel like it was like an easy to make caution so it really helped us our numbers i feel like because it was a easy go-to yeah that's well that's that's sort of like to me that's like that's like now because so many images are burning our brains through like the internet so many things go viral being becoming like a easy and recognizable halloween costume is like you know to me is like the definition i agree you are pop culture well i I mean, that's how I feel with Miss Xtina, too.

20:53I'm like, every year there's girls and chaps. So, you know, that is truly... That's what I'm saying. Come on, Dirty. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, that's how you know. That's how you know.

21:06We're going to take a quick break.

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21:51I do have to ask you about this. SNL. Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. I love that we're going to talk about this. So basically, when Charlie performed the SNL, she was on stage. She was singing. And she was wearing a Gucci handbag. Looked fab. And there were so, like, well, she was performing 360, right? Like, she was, it was so funny because so many people had so much to say about the fact that she was wearing a handbag while performing. I know, which is so interesting. It's super interesting. You know, like, I have my personal feelings about handbags on the red carpet because I'm always like, girl, what's in there?

22:28But, you know, performing... No, by the way, same. Like, I'm like, there's no clutch to be seen. I'm like, first of all, you're not there alone. Like, let's just demystify it. Like, there's a publicism. Like, you need your phone and like, or even if you have a bag, someone else can carry it for those like five minutes and then you have it. You don't need to be in the step and repeat with like a handbag, right? I love that. But, you know, sort of on SNL, I thought it was really interesting because so many people had so much to say about the idea. Like the fact that she was performing with a handbag.

22:59From questioning whether or not it was necessary to questioning whether or not she got paid to wear the handbag and promote it, which I thought all of it was hilarious. Part of me, I'm like, well, I don't know. Like Charlie always performs like she's at the club raving. So you're at the club with your handbag. I don't know. Like to me, it wasn't that deep. But then we texted about it. So like, how did that handbag got to Charlie's shoulder on SNL? Okay, so what really, originally, like, I thought it would have been like, really like, bitchy and funny for her to have like, a fur stole, like a little like, something that she walked and then she like, threw it off at some point.

23:34And then that kind of evolved. I think then we were like, or maybe it's a handbag. Maybe she was like, maybe it's a handbag. And we, basically that Jackie bag, it was my personal one. Like, it literally is not that deep. Like, this is why I think it's so funny because there's like, I honestly, it was a Vogue article, a British Vogue article, maybe. I don't know. But they were like, you know, she's definitely getting paid by this brand. But like, it seemed and I'm like, no, it wasn't. Like, I was just kind of like, and I, again, I think it is kind of, it is Brad-ish to be like the Jackie handbag.

24:06It's a very like, I mean, it's a lady handbag. It's a little more like, you know, stuffy is seeming. But I feel like I was like, no, it's not. It's actually, I mean, it's like my favorite bag. It's also named after Jackie Kennedy Onassis. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, historically, it's like not brat, but also brat entirely. Exactly. Is Jackie Kennedy brat? Stop. No, I can't. The internet won't. Yeah, don't make me. Don't make me. Okay, I won't make you go there. Okay, but so it was your personal handbag, and it just sort of like ended up on her. It was just like, it was fab. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you can imagine we had pulled like tons of handbags.

24:43And like what's funny is that mine, it's like it was the one that I was just carrying all of my stuff in. So like while we had like 20 other bags for the week of like events and stuff, from that first like fitting, I was like, I love this one. And then like we kept pulling more because I was like, oh, maybe it doesn't have to be this one. And then it always is like, no, that one's great. Like it was perfect. Yeah, it did look really full. Like it looked, because to me, something that's funny is like when people sort of wear bags to shows or red carpets or whatever, and you can, you sort of have the sense that it's like sponsored because it's empty.

25:18I'm going to put something in the bag. But that bag felt lived in. No, there was some something and there's some stuff in there. I was, it was obviously curated. So things weren't going to fly out of it. But yeah, there was some weighted, it was filled a little. Yeah. That's why I thought it was really funny when we were texting about this. because yeah I do think there was a British Vogue article that of course like you know Rachel Taschen who's one of her critics wrote for the Washington Post and she sort of talked about personal style and like talked about Charlie and talked about but I do think there's something interesting about the fact that everyone thought it was like sponsored because so much of fashion right now and celebrity fashion is about placements right sort of like giving things putting things placing things and I love that it was just such an organic I mean I do want to just like this is obviously just my own personal thoughts not any of my clients But like, I do think that like, it's funny to read those.

26:07And I think it's funny with fan culture and just like everyone having an opinion, but saying like, especially fan culture of being like, having this like, turned up nose idea of like endorsements and stuff. And to me, I'm like, okay, well, do you want, like, everyone's trying to make a living. And I think like, I think a lot of times people are like, I think it's kind of like, okay, do you want your favorite artist to make the best album if they're a musician? Do you want to make the best movie? So like, if that's the case, then like the, the, the calmer side of it is like, okay, well, these endorsements are like, don't impede on their art and what they output, but like make them money to live.

26:47So it's like, so I'm kind of like, I'm like, so I don't know. I'm like, do you want your favorite person to make like, I don't know, like some action movie number five or like, would you want them to make like some movie that you really liked them in like a while ago, but doesn't pay them any money? So, like, don't get mad at them when they're in the large campaign for some brand. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's part of it. I'm like, come on. Like, you have to, there's a push and pull here. Yeah. And, you know, we also have to be realistic about the fact that, like, we work, you know, entertainment, music, fashion.

27:16These are industries. Like, they're artistic. They're art inclined. They are art in so many ways. But they're also industries. Like, they are businesses. They require, you know, you can't be a stylist in L.A. running around requesting custom looks, samples. flying things back and forth, shipping things back and forth if you don't have any money to do so. So we just also have to be very realistic about the fact that things cost money. Literally. And I do think that like, especially in Charlie and Brat world, I feel like she's done such a good job about all of her partnerships. Like even if the partner itself seems surprising to people, I feel like anytime she's done something, it's like feels very much in line, whether it's like H &M where it's like, and I think some of those articles are like, brands really want to tap into and like take it but i'm like yeah but that's what they did like if you look at the h &m show it's like that was literally like those events are so charlie and also so matt like they were incredible and they like i feel like that's why i'm like i don't know i think that those things are actually amazing like the london show and the times square show like that's incredible like people got to see that and it was brought to them and they didn't have to buy tickets and like i don't know there's i think sometimes people just love to you know give people a hard time.