Summer Cover Star Gracie Abrams Talks New Music and Her Acting Debut

0:07This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mal, and today I'm here with our senior features editor, Marley Marius, and Samantha Sussman, our global director of social media. Welcome. Thank you, Chloe. Hello, Vindy Robin. Our summer cover drops today, and it is none other than pop queen Gracie Abrams. The two of you spoke to her a little bit ago when she stopped by the Vogue offices, and she was just embarking on filming of her new movie, which is a first for her. You also got a preview of some of the new songs that she's been working on and chatted about the cover shoot. And you also, you heard all about Daughter from Hell.

0:47What is Daughter from Hell? Is she a daughter from hell? What does this mean? A self-professed Daughter from Hell. Indeed. Which I think a lot of us could relate to. Totally, Sam. Totally. I mean, that is a big part of the story, the profile by Brittany Spann. I was Gracie talking about how she was like a nightmare growing up and has been like apologizing to her parents. It's hard to see it. Honestly, she was angelic. Exactly. But apparently she's a reformed Daughter from Hell. and the story yeah talks a bit about that talks a bit about where her mind has been making this new album how she's I think she describes it as the sum of her parts like she's maturing in real time and making art about it and it's very cool to witness and where her mind's been where her body's been to which is in London that she's moved to London and she's having an amazing time there and about yeah about to embark on on something very new for her it's also sounded like she wasn't acting was not something she was trying to do, even as someone from L.A.

1:47Like, it sounded like Helena Rain, the director that she's working with, just kind of identified something in her and felt that she seemed, like, really relatable. And it sounded like it came together in a really, like, organic, cool way. So I'm so excited to see how that movie turns out. Because it has quite an amazing cast, even beyond Gracie. And I think from being on set with her and from our conversation with her, the way Marlee and I kind of reverted to our truce that we were three girls, just Gavin. I think she is someone you immediately feel comfortable with, and she knows how to do that.

2:18And I think she'll be successful in portraying that on the screen. I feel that way about her, too. I only have met her a couple of times, but at Vogue World Hollywood, she was zipping around on the back of a golf cart heading to her rehearsal. And she was so friendly. She's so present. And to me, she's stylish in the way of someone who's very self-assured in an appealing way. And that I think is fantastic. I also want to talk quickly about the Tony Awards on Sunday night. Marlee Marius, I think of you as Tony czar. Okay. Well, yes, the 79th Tony Awards were this past weekend. I always look forward to the Tonys.

3:03I look forward to the performances. What was your highlight? I would say, so there were a lot of tribute performances because they were celebrating the anniversary of certain shows. So there was like a fun Book of Mormon tribute since it's been on Broadway for 15 years. Rachel Zegler sang What I Did for Love from A Chorus Line, which is a fantastic number from a fantastic show that's 50 years old now. Oh, there was also, like, Leslie Odom Jr. sang a song from Rent because that show is turning 30. So there were a lot of nice tributes to sort of iconic shows of the past, which I appreciated. But then also there were, like, a lot of great first-time winners.

3:40Some first-time nominees, but certainly some people who have been nominated a couple of times but hadn't won until last night. And some major people like Leslie Manville. Like, yes, making her Broadway debut. And obviously she's a legend in the West End. But yeah, amazing for her to come over here and win for Oedipus. Joshua Henry winning his first Tony. He'd been nominated, I think, three times before this, and he's amazing in ragtime, so that was well-deserved. And also his ragtime co-star, Casey Levy, also won, and she's great in that show. So yeah, it was a lot of like fun wins. Death of a Salesman, I think, was the most awarded show of the night, which was, to my mind, very well deserved.

4:20It's an amazing production. Laurie Metcalf won for best lead performance by an actress in a play. But yeah, it was a good show. I think the nice thing about the Tonys is that everyone there is so happy to be there. No one is jaded. Everyone is like so grateful for the work that they get to do in the theater. And it's adorable to watch. And Pink was so random as a host, but she is very talented. And so, like, I give her that. She has an amazing voice, and that is undeniable. Other things that you guys did this weekend? Marlee and I went together to see a great documentary on Louis Mall, which you actually— Was that the Metrograph?

4:54Heard of him. We love it. Heard of him. And you actually did the Q &A with the director. That's true. There is currently through the 16th of June a retrospective of my father's American films at the Metrograph. And there's a new documentary about him that a very talented French filmmaker made. And it's screened on Friday night. And I hosted a Q &A with her afterward. And Marlee Marius and Sam Sussman were two very supportive people who came. You won't go into it. But it was really amazing. As we keep saying, it's a great time of an hour and ten minutes. But you get to see so much of his work, and something I never thought of when you look at all the work together was how amazing he was at going against the status quo by making films that people were so genuinely interested in.

5:44They really captured, I think, a lot of human emotions, and I was tearing up by the time you got to do your Q &A, but he never wanted to make something that felt the same, and that resonated with me. Well, thank you guys for coming. I mean, it was a really lovely evening. And then I had a big kid's birthday party weekend. I took Artie to see the Marcel Duchamp at the MoMA because he makes beautiful junk in his kindergarten class. So he was very excited about how. So similar to my. Exactly. Sidewalk already made. He was very into the urinals. We went to see Fraggle Rock at the New Victory Theater.

6:23Alice got a haircut. So cute. The bob is bobbing. It's Alice's big ballet recital. Much angst about this ballet recital happening. So that is finally on Wednesday. We've been talking about this since January. As you should. She has three costumes. Just like a cover drop. Yes, exactly. Major. Well, while you guys were out experiencing the world, I was transported to Fiji because I was inside keeping up with Love Island. Sam, tell me what that means. It's couples. So, you know, you've introduced me with my job, day job, but I also have a night job. And it is watching the Knicks, but it's also watching Love Island.

7:08So things are really, I'm really juggling right now. So tonight is a big night. We were filming this on Monday evening. So there's a Knicks game and there is a new episode of Love Island where, so previous night, Sunday, someone was sent home for the first time. And it was really sad. So it's kind of when you realize I started this season being like, I'm not so invested. It's not as good as the other seasons. And the minute it gets real and people start having to be voted off, you get sad. And people are really starting to emerge. There's a really sweet couple, Casey and Anaya, who I'm rooting for.

7:47It was also Dua Lipa and Count Turner's Italian continuation of their wedding festivities. Still pictures of the actual wedding dress are under lock and key, i.e. her phone. But she was wearing a leather Intrachato Bottega Veneta dress on Friday night, which I thought the bride wears leather was sort of fun twist. And then for her the sort of very paparazzi photos of the brunch on Sunday, she was wearing this lacy thing with, which I thought was very funny, the Chloe Swan purse, which I liked as a bridal accessory. It was perfect. Very dear. Bridal fashion on lock. A lot of brides, I think, we're going to see them kind of taking some notes from her.

8:28Yeah. She's a fun bride. Party bride. Party bride. They had really cute on Instagram. There were all these released photos of the details of their wedding. They had lots of embroidered details. They had a photo booth, and then they had fans that were embroidered and some book references because the night they met, they realized they were reading the same book. Famously. Yes. We love readers here. On Monday morning, we also launched as part of our big American issue rollout our American Style story, which we partnered with the Substacker, the writer Biz Sherbert, who has a Substack newsletter called American Style, where she travels around the U.S.

9:10identifying people with interesting, unexpected style. And she, we used the Vogue app to identify 50 young people across the country who represented modern American style to her. And it was ages 18 to 30. And we had hundreds of people submit from the app. And she met two of them in person, Owen Peters in Minneapolis and Chelsea Banks in Birmingham, Alabama. Owen and Chelsea sent us some voice memos about what this experience meant to them. Hi, Vogue. This is Chelsea Banks. I just turned 20 years old last week and I'm from Birmingham, Alabama. To be a part of the American Style Ex Vogue shoot has been such a surreal experience, truly a dream come true.

9:55For me, my personal style is really a big part of my identity. I think if my clothes can't reflect who I am, then what else will? I would describe my style as twee. I'm very inspired by the late 1960s and the late 2000s to the mid 2010s all of these eras encapsulated together really represent my style and what I want to say with my clothing this summer I'm really looking forward to wearing dresses drop waist mini dresses and baby doll dresses I know the baby doll has been pretty controversial but I love what it says and I love what it represents so I can't wait to lean into that this summer. Hi Vogue this is Owen Peters I am 19 and I am from Shakopee Minnesota.

10:45I grew up hearing and loving Vogue so much so to be featured is insane. One piece I'm really excited to wear this summer I bought this shirt from a vintage shop that is this pale pink and it has a hollywood star on it and says hollywood right across the chest i really love iconography from hollywood and stuff so that i'm very excited to wear out thank you bye

11:22scrolling through everyone is dressed so differently everyone has such different aesthetics, but Biz sort of identified something sort of worthwhile in what all of them were doing, and it was just very cool to see it come together and to see how excited she was to, like, curate that group of young people. So I think it came together in a really exciting way, and it's so fun to have on the site this week. I'm getting very excited about the World Cup. I just got an email from Chewy about dog football scarves. I might get one for Lloyd. Football scarves also. Amazing. Perfect for June. Yeah, totally.

11:56Lloyd's neck famously chilly.

12:01We are so excited about this Gracie cover. She is such a fan favorite at Vogue. The story was written, as Marlee mentioned, by Britney Spanos and was photographed at the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art, which is a new architectural landmark in L.A. Larissa Hoffman photographed it and Jordan Bickham was the stylist. I love the sort of sleek, pared-down American fashion that Jordan pulled for this. I think it looks spectacular. One of my favorite photos is Gracie in this cobalt blue row dress that I think just looks great against the backdrop. Well, since we spoke to Gracie, she released the first single from the album, Hit the Wall, which has been stuck in my head for approximately three hours.

12:48It rocks. and she's announced a tour. So things are happening. The gears are turning. This is going to be a huge summer for the pop girls releasing their albums and Gracie's is out on July 17th. So we're excited to hear the whole thing.

13:08And we'll be right back with Gracie Abrams.

13:22This week on Critics at Large, we're talking about Steven Spielberg and his blockbusters, Jaws. Jurassic Park. Of course, E.T. They're all classics for a reason. Does his latest, Disclosure Day, come close to those heights? There's a lot riding for the movie business on this question, and then for the culture sense of itself as large. Are movies still important? Are people going to the cinema still a thing? or the youth like we were, all of those questions. Those big cultural questions are coming up through Disclosure Day. Join me, Vincent Cunningham, and my co-hosts on Critics at Large. New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

14:11Today, we have a truly thrilling guest. incredible things happening in the studio. We have our summer cover star, one Gracie Abrams here, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for having me, guys. What a treat to be here. Wow, thank you so much for being here. I mean, Sam, you were on set for Gracie's cover shoot in LA. Can you guys tell me, set the scene, what was it like? What were the vibes? I'd love to, and I'll need Gracie's help, but it was not, unbiased opinion, best vibes. There was a heat wave, so we were all in it together. We had the best team. We had Larissa Hoffman, who I love. Jordan Bickham, who I love.

14:49We had our female team coming through. Emmy and Tomas. But yes, I'm the best. Emmy and Tomas, tell me how you felt about it because I had a blast. It was such a trip. It was so, I mean, to be in L.A. was also quite nuts having grown up there. Totally. And I think because of how intimate the crew felt, it was always a trippy moment to pull back and realize what it was we were shooting and where. And also, like, that environment was so remarkable and the people make everything all the time. But what a nuts kind of bucket list. Totally. Like, faraway dream. And the setting was George Lucas's amazing new narrative.

15:40I don't know what it's called, actually. It's the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art. Okay, gorgeous. I kept calling it the Museum of Storytelling. I'm sure he would agree that that's also what he did. Yeah, I mean, what was amazing, though, was, first of all, I feel like I've never been in such a big space in my life. I thought we had left. Like cavernous, like we left the earth. Something about it felt like insane. Just so excited for L.A. to have a museum like that. The design is incredible. I think 300 ,000 square feet. I mean, it's unimaginable. You enter. It's incredible. Gracie was in her kind of cover looks.

16:14I thought it was the craziest. I've never been in a museum before. It's open before. It was crazy. You're running through the museum. It was great. We got tacos that day. Got Marisco's. Have you ever had Marisco's, Jalisco's? We're flying to LA. Okay, good. Got a big tray of shrimp tacos. We wouldn't have made it through the shoot without it. No. It was a real dream. Oh, my God. Well, that is so fun. We can't, I mean, we're, for the audience, we are recording this a few months before the story's out. So we're, you know, with bated breath waiting to see the story, but we're very excited about it.

16:45Did you listen to any music on set? Yeah, we had Gaga. The fame, always. Always. And I think we, like, we switched it up. We put some Tame Impala, too. And then at the end, like, last shot, I was like, we're going back to Gaga. Yeah, Sandy was like, we were all, like, a little bit fading into the day by the end of the, Because also it was full. It was like heat advisory, like heat warning in L.A. They were like, don't go outside. Don't go outside. We were in the row like this in 95 degree heat. Anyway, but then it was just so funny. There was some like ambient music and all of a sudden it's like, just dance.

17:18I was like, yes, thank you, Sammy. We got to hear a snippet of the new album, which was very exciting. Thank you for listening. I mean, when do you kind of decide how you want to sort of talk about what an album sort of is and how it kind of like fits into like the sort of trajectory of your works? I do feel like when you're like doing press around like a project, you kind of have to be like, this is reflective of this kind of moment in my life. To me, I feel very present with whatever it is I'm writing in that like, you know, there wasn't a single event that inspired a concept album in this case.

17:54I feel like I was surprised that as much music came as quickly after the last tour ended. You know, I wasn't anticipating that. I didn't feel like I had anything to say. And I think my nervous system was really like settling into what life off tour feels like because it had been four years of a straight push. Oh, my God. Yeah. And like I think when you're in it, I'm sure you guys feel this way with what you do, which requires like 24-7 attention in a way that I cannot even imagine. imagine but there's there's like you don't realize how your nervous system is kind of like running until you stop which like never happens and then but when it does you're then like whoa like I feel like being absolutely silent so I had no plans in this case to like jump in as quickly as we ended up doing it but my collaborator producer dear friend Aaron Dussner, who I've worked with for six years now, he has superpowers.

18:56And kind of whenever we're in the same room, even if I do feel like silent to my core, whenever he starts playing something, it sparks my imagination. And therefore, when we got together to kind of just throw something at the wall, so much came out and it felt like a really kind of quite accurate reflection of, I guess just being in my mid-20s and, you know, I think like being in your 20s is famously that sort of in-between space where like one foot is in your adolescence still and another is sort of in the future a bit. And this album, when I think about, because you two are like some of the first people I'm talking about it, you know, with at all, just like, so I'm kind of still figuring out the vocabulary, I guess, around it.

19:47But I do feel like it is, I'm looking at this album as like, I am the sum of all my parts and these are the parts that I was this year. What I was talking to Marlee, when Marlee asked how I was feeling about the album, I think that in between, I think that's an amazing way to talk about it because that's what I relate to it. You get that feeling perfectly of something can look one way, it can turn out one way, but how you're feeling inside and feeling like, oh, you wish something would have worked out because it would have been easier. You're like, but unfortunately it couldn't. And so, but then you make it fun.

20:24And I know you do. You somehow when you're sitting, somehow people can just... Maybe once or twice. It's fun. No, you find a very smart, clever way to talk about it where you're like, it didn't actually go that way. And I was in a lot of pain, but actually it's gonna be okay like no I do think there's lots of different themes I think there's like falling in love and heartache and like regret and I think like age now that comes with just enough reflection to like be like okay but you know just looking in the mirror a bit and I know you work with Aaron a lot but is there anyone once you're working with him who you're sending for feedback is there anyone else you look to even that you're not working with but just to be like oh I want your POV.

21:05For sure. I feel like, well, historically, when Audrey, Audrey Hobart and I lived together, when we were making The Secret of Us together, like she was my, it's like run downstairs and be like, do we like this idea? So that was such a gift to have my dearest friend, you know, and my roommate be the person whose opinion and taste I trust and respect the most. Like that was amazing and similarly now paul's like the i'm you know constantly i'm just like thoughts thoughts on this one you know what i mean so that's a joy for sure i think other than aaron i'll send a demo to my mom like do we hate that you know yeah but um otherwise i've never really been like cast a wide net it's people you what you're saying and i'm like you're really good about bringing people that you love into your world to work with.

22:02And so when these people you're talking about, you know the feedback, you're going to care about their feedback. So I love that. It's people you'll... I feel like feedback is so crucial, but I do think in this time, it's like discerning for all of us because of the internet. Like it's unavoidable. We're living in a time where nothing goes uncommented on, which like is also like our First Amendment Right. So I'm like, let's go. However, I do think it's important that like, regardless of the scale it's on in terms of like perception, etc. I do think it's important to internalize feedback and really respect and honor feedback you're getting from people who are invested truly in your personal growth and like evolution and not for the sake of like burying you in a hole and wanting you to like suffer.

22:54A daily beat. You know what I'm saying? No, indeed. Hard agree. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm the same, but I just go to safe circle. That's where I'm like, where I can handle the feedback. Exactly. Exactly. Totally. Yeah. You are someone who has historically sort of teased, like, you put out sort of snippets of music that you're working on and sort of shared that with the community that you've built online, which is so devoted to you. I mean, the nice ones are so devoted in such a sweet way. But when you have done that, was kind of the feedback that you were getting sort of directional?

23:22Was this idea to just kind of be like, I am in the studio, I'm working on things, like things are happening? Like, what were you kind of seeking in those moments when you're sort of teasing things? I think when I started posting snippets years and years and years ago, it was like just another outlet for me. And I think because I didn't really think about the Internet as like another place that you are performing. To me, it was just, you know, I didn't have to face anyone actually. Like, in reality, no one, no real person was in the room with me when I was, like, hitting post. And so it initially was just somewhere for me to kind of log these things.

24:02And then as people somehow stumbled across my songs and would comment and let me know that they had been through something similar or that it resonated with them for whatever reason, I then felt like it was this beautiful relationship where not like using my following as a sounding board as much as kind of like feeling like they were a community of people that were receiving it and making me in turn feel less alone in whatever it is I was writing about. So it's always nice to see what hits harder, I suppose. And there have definitely been instances like in years past where that's influenced the amount of attention I put towards a song.

24:50Because I think I was so impulsive with uploading things. Like I would be in the middle of writing a song and like have just recorded the first half of a verse and still not have haven't gotten to the second yet and be like post. I feel less impulsive with the Internet today. but at the same time, I love that feeling. There's pros and cons. I mean, the bridge from I Told You Things, they say it's fans, maybe me, maybe have called it the crash-out song of the year. Oh, geez. Emotionally devastating. Great, yeah. Great. Do you agree with that take? I love that song now more than ever after touring it and kind of getting the catharsis of really, it feels so, it's so conversational.

25:34and kind of aggro, which I love. I love it too. I think it's funny just in terms of like audience influence on something, the way that their spirit rewires my memories associated with music is pretty great, especially because also like it's entertaining to see people like headbang to a song that I certainly wasn't like headbanging to when I was writing it. You know what I mean? I was like basically right here being like, and now they're like fully and so I love them for that and when I think of that song instead of thinking about what I was writing about I think about like specific shows where I remember them going particularly hard for it so so you've seen all the viral tiktoks I haven't I don't have tiktok or I have instagram on my phone sometimes but I haven't seen them but I'm just I feel again another reason I'm grateful for shows is like that's what I receive the internet for me makes me feel unwell I think fair enough very honestly um I think you've said and I've heard other artists say this which is so interesting to me that like the moment that you put something out there and certainly once you begin performing it like it's not really about what it was to you anymore it sort of becomes a completely different experience of the material which seems so interesting just to kind of see a piece of work kind of develop a life of its own like through your fans yeah because it just doesn't belong to you anymore once you put it out and it's nice to more than nice it's like inspiring I think to be in a room with a bunch of people that are like the demographic is like roughly we're all kind of growing up together and there's it feels like a massive support group or something like where everyone is relating to each other on some level regardless of like the fact that they're strangers technically and it just feels that kind of like catharsis that everyone talks about when it comes to music everyone feels no one's a stranger at your show i don't know how to tell you like i've gotten to watch it and the way that everyone freaks everyone's screaming lyrics together everyone always makes friends let me tell you They're dancing in circles around each other.

27:56They're so sweet. It's so sweet to watch. Cathartic for me. But talking about your shows, because I know you've said the idea of performing has made you nervous before, which I always couldn't believe because when you go on stage, I do feel you transform. And you're so focused in those songs. I feel like you almost go back to when you were writing them. That emotion really flows through you. And I was curious if anything's helped you become more confident in performing. I mean, you've done sold-out arena tours. How have you found that confidence, and how have you been able to be less nervous? Well, I think, like, before I— I hadn't ever played a show prior to COVID.