Vogue Editors Break Down The December Issue Edited By Marc Jacobs

0:28This is the run through. American Vogue's history to be guest edited by none other than Marc Jacobs. Oh, heaven. I saw it pop up on my Insta feed and it was just like joy. I feel like people had a really jubilant, excited reaction to this issue. It's the first time, anecdotally, in a long time that I have had friends asking me for copies of the print issue. That has not happened to me in a while. So I do feel like there is excitement and a frisson of hype around this issue. And on Monday night, we had a really fun party at a library, a book bar, if you'll call it that, in Soho called Bibliotheque with Kaya and Mark.

1:13They each read a different poem. Mark read from Rilke, Taylor, and Virginia, who will join us later to tell us more about the issue. But they give a very cute speech talking about how they felt like children of divorced parents sort of negotiating between Mark and Anna throughout this. Sounds like a challenging process. I really think this issue is going to be a collector's item. Like, I think people are going to collect it. And I just love, for me, it was interesting to see Mark's socials because you could tell how much fun he had doing it. Yes, totally. They're such great friends. They've known each other for so long.

1:51And I love that portrait of Anna and Mark turned away from the camera. Both with the signature bob. It really did feel different. Like there are a lot of unexpected features that I feel like probably wouldn't have either happened or happened in such a big way. Like a 22-page dance portfolio is not something I've ever seen in Vogue before. So that was – it felt like an exciting opportunity to test new waters. Today on the show, as I briefly mentioned, I spoke to Vogue's deputy editor, Taylor Antrim, friend of the pod, and Vogue's director of the global fashion network, Virginia Smith, the woman, the myth, the legend.

2:32And they worked closely with Mark and Anna on this issue. As I said, they were a bit of the diplomatic corps going back and forth between them. And I'm very excited for you to hear. Oh, I can't wait to hear this conversation. I love, for me, the BTS, especially as someone who's also putting together a magazine, is like the juice. That is the juice for me. The juice is worth the squeeze here. Yes, exactly. Choma, I feel like you've had a big week. What's happening in London? I've had such a busy week. I was out late last night celebrating the brand Chipova Luena, who are British Vogue and the BFC, which is our version of the CFDA, British Fashion Council.

3:12we have a fun together and they were this year's winners and it was great because I had to make a speech as I sometimes do but it it came very naturally because I remember meeting Emma Chupova and Laurel Lawena who are the designers behind the brand and going out to Deptford which is in in southeast London and going to their space and I remember when they were just making their signature pleated carabiner skirts on the floor by themselves. And it was just the two of them. And they were making these very heavy necklaces out of carabiners too that have become such a signature for them as well. So it was kind of this lovely moment.

3:55And that was pre-pandemic. And they've been in business since 2017. And they've really become such a force here. And I So many of the younger editors love their brand and wear their brand and there's such excitement. And of course, I wore a really fun Chipova look and loving it. And it really is different from anything that you'll ever see. And yeah, so it was a really fun night. And then the same day, I was at Lightroom for the press preview of Vogue's interactive exhibit, which is called Inventing the Runway. The elevator pitch is it's 100 years of fashion in 50 minutes. It's a 101. It's Runway 101.

4:37It's some of the best fashion shows that have ever taken place in the last 100 years in a immersive room. So it's like a front row seat, even better than a front row seat, because I experience shows in the light room that feel even more immersive. And you see the detail and you sort of see the backstage and you see you just see it from a 360 perspective. You walk into this enormous room and there's different images being projected on four walls and the floor. To be honest, if I was, you know, if I think about my 14-year-old self and having something like this available to them at that age, I would have, it would have blown my little mind because it was such a, yeah, it was such a like, you know, when you just get those moments when you're like, oh, like, this is why I love fashion.

5:22And this is what makes, this is where the magic happens. And that's what this show is, really. God, you're really selling it, Toma. I know. No, I mean, I just think it's quite, it's just nice when we make something that's so different, right? And I think our colleague Marco Ducci has been working, basically it was something that he kind of spearheaded and has been working on it for a long time. And being in London, we've been there, we've been there along with him along the way for the whole thing, pretty much. So it's just so cool to see come to life. As much as I love making a magazine, it's also cool to see how other things are made.

5:59Like there's the animation side of it. I just had no idea how they make this amazing animation come to life. So it's been very cool. But yes, I was extremely braindead after two hours of talking about it. I want to know what else you've been doing this week. Have you seen any movies? I feel like all of the Oscar, the awards season contenders, all the screenings are starting to happen and all those movies are coming out. So like Vogue had a screening of The Brutalist last week and you and I obviously saw Queer. And there's the Soderbergh film with Cate Blanchett, the black bag that we're seeing a screening of tonight.

6:34and then tomorrow night I am going to Anna's Wicked screening that she's hosting at MoMA. Oh, fab. That'll be fun. Also, there's been a lot of fun TV on that I've been binging and enjoying. The Martha documentary on Netflix. Oh, I started watching that. Oh, I was gripped. It's so good. Oh, I need to go back to it. She apparently, she's been very vocal about how she hated it, but I thought it paints her in such a human, interesting light. I was like so team Martha by the end. I think for me, it was a real introduction to Martha because I didn't grow up with Martha Stewart. So I only know the sort of current day Martha who's like A and fab and like on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

7:12I didn't understand like some of her tablescapes, literally, I was just like, I was, I was just gagged. I was just like, this is so special. I mean, she was like this crazy, beautiful stockbroker who suddenly, you know, decided that she wanted to be like a domestic goddess. And I don't know, I think she's just like such an inspiration. Is everyone watching Rivals there? Yes. Everybody is obsessed with Rivals. Rivals was so fun. I was delighted. It's like everything I want in Jilly Cooper, all hail. It's like sex, news, Cotswolds, class drama. Don't give away too much. I've only watched one episode.

7:56Oh, okay, fine. Well, it's a delight.

8:03Wait, so Choma, break down the Grammy now for me. What are you excited about? What are you not? Well, I feel very excited that Charlie XCX, who is a UK, you know, a UK treasure, has been nominated for many Grammys. And it was a lot of women on the lineup. It was a lot of women. Finally, they're getting the message, you know, and my girl SZA is on there, I think. And Dochi, who is an artist who I went to see recently in concert, who I'm obsessed with. My partner told me about her and I was like, well, I never really want to go to a concert if I don't know the music. Oh, but it was worth it? Oh, my God.

8:42And everybody knew the words and it was packed and there was like literally sweat dripping from the ceiling. And I don't usually like those environments, but it was so great. Like, I really think she's like the next big thing. And of course, we knew we knew Chapel Rowan would be nominated. What did you think of Beyonce's country album? I was surprised that I how much I liked it, actually. She's nominated for album of the year, but there are several other nominations that she's got. And this makes Beyonce the most nominated Grammy artist of all time. I mean, of course, she's the go in every way.

9:14So that doesn't surprise me. Wow. What else? Carolina Herrera has their resort show in Mexico City today. Oh, that'll be a fun one. And there's also the Latin Grammys happening this weekend, I believe. So Carla Martinez has a busy weekend ahead of her. But I think that I'm excited. I love when Herrera does a fun resort show. I remember when they did Brazil, it looked so bright and beautiful. And I'm excited to see the photos from that. All right. And The Run Through will be back in just a moment with a behind-the-scenes conversation with Taylor Antrim and Virginia Smith. And Choma, I can't wait for you to hear who Mark originally wanted on the cover.

10:02I think I can guess.

10:20Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

10:58And we're back, and here is our conversation all about Mark X Vogue.

11:07This is a big week at American Vogue. True or false, this is the first guest editor ever of American Vogue. That would be true, Chloe. Whose idea was this and why? So it is the first guest editor, although we should say that there's a rich tradition of using guest editors for Vogue's in other parts of the world, right? In other lands. In other lands. So Vogue France had, like, guest editors once a year for a long time, a lot of film directors and Alfred Hitchcock. David Hockney. Oh, my God, how chic. Right, right. So there have been guest editors, but American Vogue's never had a guest editor.

11:43And you asked whose idea was it? it was Anna Winters' idea. Okay. Why? I don't know if anyone really knows what prompted her. There's some stories. But apparently there was a lunch at Balthazar, which poor Mark Jacobs had no idea what was about to be presented to him. Over his chicken payard. Over his chicken payard. He likes to say that he had the side of mash. Yes. She did not. She did not. And lo and behold, Anna pulls out an envelope and had done sort of a mock-up of some ideas. So she came fully prepared, which is, of course, you know, how she works. And Mark was presented, you know, with this idea of being the first guest editor of American Vogue, which apparently he took some time to think about.

12:28I think he was a little overwhelmed by the idea initially. But he got his head around it, thankfully for us. And there's a little bit of a history here in that the December issue of Vogue has always been something in Anna's mind. It's a little special, a little call for celebration. We usually try to sort of tailor the fashion stories and the features towards that kind of theme and mood. And then there was also this problem of timing, which is that we would be making the December issue in a time before the presidential election. And it would be coming out after the presidential election. So there's really no way around that.

13:04There was no way to know what was going to happen and meet the moment afterwards. So she thought to herself, as she said to me, that why don't we do something really special that's just like a gift, nothing to do with politics whatsoever, really just like a really creative sort of issue. It seems like a great opportunity to bring someone else in to do it. And Mark thought the same way. He didn't want to do anything to do with the news or with politics. It really was meant to be kind of a bit of a creative escape, I would say. Were there like second and third choices for guest editors or was it Mark or Bust?

13:44It was Mark or Bust. Mark was the only one. So Anna and Mark have a long relationship and they're really quite close. Yeah, when did they meet? Do we know that? I don't know when they met, to be honest. I think Anna has supported Mark through when his business was great and at times when it was more challenging. And they really have a deep respect for each other. And that was really apparent during this process, which thank goodness it was there because, you know, as we'll get into in a minute, there were times that were a little more challenging for both of us. But the fact that they really do admire and respect each other was really evident throughout the process.

14:23Yeah. So she was like, it's only Mark. It's not like who should be the guest editor of this issue. It was Mark Jacobs. And by the time she was telling me about it, he'd already said yes, I guess. So this was a fait accompli and she was scheduling the first meeting and on and on we went. I mean that was months ahead too. That was like last spring. Oh, really? Yeah, it was crazy. She works very far in advance. Wow. Well, so what were those early meetings like? So I would say they do have such longstanding respect and admiration for each other. They're really good friends. They're not the same person at all.

15:01So – In what way? Let's fill that in. So Anna arrives at these meetings. She's basically got the whole thing mapped out in her head. You know, forget the fact that she's actually bringing in a guest editor. She had all these ideas and really a timetable that was quite accelerated. She wanted decisions to be made right away. I remember looking at Mark, who I was actually meeting for the first time, and he looked a little thunderstruck by the whole thing. I mean, at times I thought to myself that he was desperate to escape. Mark is someone who I think his creative process is much different than Anna's.

15:39I mean, Anna, the way she works, as we all know, is, you know, she is the most efficient person on the face of the earth. If there's an issue, she wants it resolved right then and there, and then she moves on to the next thing. That's right. Mark Jacobs likes to think about things. He likes to mull things over. He likes to have more time. He likes to reconsider them, come back to them. It's just how he works. So that is the antithesis of how we are used to working at Vogue. So I think Mark in that first meeting, I honestly sort of thought he was going to run out and never come back again. I thought we were going to get a call later on saying, you know what, thanks, but this is not for me.

16:21What were some of the conversations at first meeting? I just remember it being sort of rapid fire ideas that were coming to him left and right. And Anna was trying to plan like a very linear sort of almost like a document basically that would have a document of ideas. And that is so not what was happening in this meeting. So it was Mark sort of definitely coming up with his own ideas too and his own, you know, but also sort of trying to react to what was coming at him so quickly. He had a lot of incoming. Yeah, he had a lot of incoming. Yeah. But, like, it's also he's not an editor. He was the first to say that.

17:04And so I think there was also a process of him thinking through the fact that the December issue needed to have a real variety of things in it, like any magazine does. Like Virginia and I have been doing this for a long time and creating a print magazine, which is quite an antique thing to be doing these days, is about curating and it's about the mix, right? And I had the feeling that he was thinking more of like a single point of view running through it. Like maybe one photographer does the whole thing. You know, that was an idea he had. And that really does run counter to what we often do. Though that was interesting.

17:43You know, I think those early meetings, as much as they were sort of like, you know, Anna talking over Mark as much as anything else, they were generative. You know, it was interesting to watch these ideas take shape. Like Mark was like, I love flowers. I love reading. Literacy is very important to me. You know, I love, you know, Mizell, Stephen Mizell, the photographer. Like things that actually came about in the issue when it finally was finished were brought up in that first meeting. That's true. We were so lucky to have Stephen Mizell do the cover shoot and Mark was, you know, very much hoping he would do that.

18:18It was one of his favorite photographers. So, you know, that did come out very early on in that first meeting. And I think also he talked about wanting to do something that was celebratory, that was a celebration of creativity. There were some good things that came out of that first meeting. He said he wanted to make something that would make people happy. And that is absolutely in step with what Anna was thinking. So that was good to hear. The other thing that, of course, with any magazine, you do start with a cover to some degree. And he really knew who he wanted to be his cover star, which was Anna.

18:51And Anna was not having that. So she politely let him say it one or two times and then she shut it down and she said it's not happening. Move on. And that was the end of that. Yeah, exactly. But you did get a pretty iconic image of Anna in the image. There was also in those earliest meetings, someone said – it was Mark probably – someone said we have to have a picture of the two bobs. So Anna's hairstyle, Mark's hairstyle, like uncannily similar, needed to be shot from behind. So we have these two bobs. And so – and indeed, we did create that picture and it's really great. Did the outcome of the election either direction change the way you were approaching this?

19:33It was all done and dusted by the time the election came around. There was one thing we had to sort through, which is, you know, again, when you're creating a magazine that goes to the printer, there is like a set date when it's going to come out and you need to launch it or it will leak. And so you really are looking at a pretty rigid set of dates when you can start to launch things online and on Instagram and all those good things you want to do as a title like ours. The dates that the printing would demand is that we launch it on November 5th. And we were like, this is not going to work. This is not going to work.

20:05So we really had to - November 5th was election day for those who don't recall. Exactly. So we had to go, the 11th hour, we had to go to the printer and change the schedule so that we could launch after the election. Okay, so Anna did not want herself to be on the cover. Did Mark immediately have his next idea or was that an evolving conversation? I think Kaya came up very early on in the conversation. Like she was definitely, after he got over Anna, Kaya, sorry, Kaya, you weren't second choice really, but Kaya was really disgust because he loves her and has a longstanding relationship with her.

20:41And so she was settled on early on. And we actually did that shoot really early. We did it this summer. And Grace Coddington did that story with us. And we spent a very fun Friday afternoon in the Vogue closet with a very good-natured Kaya because Mart's clothes are these magical creations, but they take a lot to get on and off, right? And all the clothes in that shoot were Mart. Yes, exactly. So that was a unique thing that we decided to do. That was a unique thing. And Mark was very keen. You know, he wasn't—we had to even talk to him about that if he would feel comfortable with that because we felt we wanted to celebrate Mark in that way.

21:23And Mark's very much about wanting to shine the light on others, but he agreed to have the cover story be only his collection. And it was actually so, so fun. It was great to be working with Grace again. And it really felt like coming back home in a way. And there's another cover. That's right. I was going to say. So he also – this was either the first or the second meeting. He talked about the painter Anna Wyant, who is someone he loves and a friend of his and whose work he reveres. And he said from the jump, he was like we should do a art cover as well as a portrait cover. And so he wanted Anna Wyant to paint Kaya.

22:04There is some history of art covers at Vogue. John Curran painted Jennifer Lawrence like eight years ago or so on the cover of the September issue. So he was thinking of that, but he was also just really wanting to shine a light on Anna Wyatt, who's a superstar all herself. But she came to the fitting that Virginia was just describing, right? And got a little time with Kaya and, you know, got her, you know, photographs that she needed to do her painting. And then she went away and did this amazing painting. So obviously for any shoot at Vogue, but especially for a cover shoot, Anna's very involved in the choice of clothing, the direction that it's going in.

22:41There is, as we know, many run-throughs. How did that work for this issue? Was Mark involved in the run-throughs? Was Mark sending creative briefs to Grace and Stephen? Mark came to the shoot. He was at the shoot with Grace and Stephen. And, you know, obviously the clothes were the clothes. But he and Grace had many conversations about which looks should be chosen. I mean, Grace goes into great detail about everything. That's what makes her an incredible editor. So she and Mark had many, many conversations. And Michael Arellano, who does PR for Mark, who is very much a partner to us in this process, we would be constantly updating the boards, which is how we keep up with what we're shooting.

23:24So there was a lot of back and forth on those boards. You know, to be honest, those clothes were so, you know, upbeat and fun that, you know, there was not exactly a bad choice. There's some incredible images in this issue. And I'm curious about like the dance shoot, which is seemed like a Herculean undertaking. I have to say when I looked at it, I was like thrilled I wasn't a part of this. Some 20, 22 pages, something like that. Yeah, and about, you know, 45 trunks of clothes leaving the building. You know, it was quite something. And Esen Venud did that shoot with Alistair McKim, who works with Mark on his shows, but someone we had not worked with before.

24:05And it was amazing to be able to work with him. The theme of it, dance, is sort of fitting into this idea of joy and happiness. And Mark really was so gung-ho about that idea. And Raul Martinez, who's our creative director, and he's known Mark since high school. They were in high school gym class together. Oh, my God. I just learned that. I know. It's amazing. That is crazy. Where? Here in New York, wasn't it? Yeah, it might have been LaGuardia. I mean, I just found that out too. I was shocked. I never knew that. Nor I. Right. So he revealed that early on. We were all like, what? You were in high school with him?

24:36Anyway, so he knows Mark really well and knows that they both love dance. And anyway, he'd done all these sort of mood boards about dance and it looked amazing. So that was sort of where it started. And there was a lot of brainstorming and casting of finding dancers. But, you know, it was always going to be models, too, and a mix of street dancers and maybe, you know, a ballet, classically trained ballet dancer or two. And then just the important thing was that it would span every kind of dance.