Vogue Editors on Chanel’s New Artistic Director Matthieu Blazy

0:03This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. It's been a very busy week in fashion.

0:11First, On Wednesday, John Galliano stepped down at Maison Margiela. But today was the day. The news that we have been anticipating for weeks, months, came. Mathieu Blaisie left Bottega-Vaneda and he was appointed at Chanel, the new artistic director, starting in 2025. This is major, major news for the fashion world. Also today, Bottega-Vaneda announced that Louise Trotter of Carvin will replace Blaisie. So we have a lot to discuss. I am in the studio with my colleagues, Mark Holgate. Hello. Laya Garcia-Furtado. Hola. And Jose Criales-Anzueta. What's up, divas? Okay, so the first thing we have to do is put it into context.

0:58Why is this the fashion story, the fashion appointment of the year? So I think the best way to sort of contextualize this is when Karl Lagerfeld took the Chanel job in the late 80s, he basically, you know, revolutionized the way Chanel was perceived, but also luxury fashion operated, right? In a sense, he really helped create the pyramid of luxury fashion today, where you sort of have couture at the top, then you have ready to wear, then you have accessories, then you have beauty and event. And that's kind of how our system now operates. That's basically how everyone sells things, right? So that's part of it.

1:34But also it's because he spent so long at Chanel that basically what he turned that job into was not just the job everyone wanted to, but also the job you would graduate into, right? That's the crown jewel. That is like, it's like tenure, right? That's the job everybody wants. It's also really interesting because, you know, the president of Chanel fashion, Bruno Pavlovsky said in an interview earlier this year that Chanel has no option than to lead, right? To me, that quote is like really tantalizing because Chanel has no option than to lead. It helps sort of show the direction of the wind in fashion.

2:15So that's why everyone's just like, who is going to be this person, right? It's crazy. So many names were mentioned. So many names. I mean, no, it's just, you literally, it was, you know, every single designer, and non-designers. I mean, I love the idea of Sofia Coppola, an amazing director. It was incredible just to see the way that, you know, it captured the imagination. It captured not just the imagination of all of us sitting around this table who are in the industry, but I think it becomes a bigger question. Who is going to be the creative director? Sorry, my apologies. Artistic director of Chanel.

2:53Artistic director of fashion activities, Mark, please. Please, I need to get the correct verbiage down. But Mechia was not necessarily in those early rounds of discussions. You've always got to bet in the dark horse. That's the real one. We hadn't thought about him, I feel like, at all because he's doing so well at Bottega. Exactly. It just seemed, you think of people who don't have a job. You think of people who have been somewhere for a long time and are ready for an upgrade. Like, I think those were the names that everybody sort of gravitated to begin with. And Matteo was not one of them because, I mean, we all love him.

3:33We all love his Bottega. And we were like, well, that's working great. Like, no need to interrupt that. And then I feel like when somebody finally mentioned it, like when the rumor mill, because the rumor mill also, there were many other names that we had all also like did the acrobatics. Like Jose likes to say to be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And then the mature rumors started and we were like, actually, we see the vision. And we really did. I think what's really interesting about this, too, is that, as I said, you know, when a job becomes open, you first go to the free agents, right? Like, who could take this job right now in theory, right?

4:08But above that as well, like, again, historically, going back to Carl, he had also, over the course of his career, kind of like almost but not quite selected a successor, right? And he first did it, I think, with Haider Ackerman, you know, in an interview, he sort of like threw out a quote that was like, oh, you know, Haider would be great. And then he sort of like shifted that direction. And then, you know, Carl famously loved Eddie Zilman's work for Dior Homme. He lost a lot of weight to fit into his tailoring, right? So then people thought he was going to be the one. And then earlier this year, he left Celine.

4:46Michael Ryder has joined Celine, and that is very exciting. So a lot of people thought it was going to be him. So there's also a lot of historic speculation, if you will, to throw into the mix. But as Mark says, basically every designer you can name either nominated themselves or was nominated by someone to take over this job. There's also the fact that Chanel was unchanging for decades. I think that's the other thing too. We're so used to a designer last 10 years or so, something like that, and then they move on. And that's actually a really good, really long run these days. I mean, sometimes you've seen that people last two, three years.

5:23For someone to be what, Chanel for four or five decades? Yeah. I mean, it's both to your point. It's the most revered and wanted and lusted after job in fashion. because of the iconicity of the House of Chanel, but also in some ways, I think, because of its rarity. Yeah. It just, it's a kind of unimaginable dream, I think, for most designers to get that job. It's a job you cannot get. Yeah. Well, you can if you're Mathieu Blaise. Period. He has a lot of fans here at Vogue, Mathieu. He's hugely talented. He is also a very kind guy and a great person to talk to. I mean, a really good interview. I think that's it, Nicole.

6:04Well, I think he can creatively lead, but he also, I think he leads beautifully as a human being. I know that sounds so kind of woo-woo and everything else, but he really does. I mean, we've all known him many, many years. I mean, I first met him when he was doing Margiela Artisanal, and he got famously outed by Susie Menkes because they were trying to keep it quiet and not let anyone know who was actually designing the Margiela Artisanal collection, which I think you and I both went to see back in the day in Paris. what was it 10 12 15 years ago great shows were amazing and it was only i don't know a dozen 15 looks beautifully executed intriguingly executed a lot of upcycling of old antique vintage materials which he actually told me he was getting from his father who's a antique dealer so he was basically taking bales of fabric and things from his dad and then just like turning these into these incredible kind of highly conceptual highly beautiful pieces um but No, he is just a kind of, you know, it's the talent and also the ability to be someone who is in today's world and understands the nuances and emotions and the way to be a public person, you know, I think is also really important.

7:17I think what's interesting about what you're saying right now, Mark, and in general, I think, you know, every time this job, a job in fashion opens up, I think it's really important to contextualize what the job is, right? I always think it's really interesting because the public and a lot of fashion people and a lot of fashion fans, the first thing they do is kind of like dreamcast a job based on their aesthetic preference, right? Like I would love TK Designer that I really adore go to this job because their work is great. but these jobs have very specific responsibilities and duties right like working at chanel is doing a very specific thing and you have to think of who's the right person for this for this specific job and um it's interesting because all those things that you both have just said mark and nicole we like i ended up putting into a business article because i was thinking about this like this guy really is the perfect person for this job and we kind of just need to say this right because again he is the perfect interview like people love to speak to him there's so much good will around him so you know that like whenever he his debut collection happens everyone's just going to be excited right and you want to start off that way you don't want to start with an eyebrow eraser um so all of these things become really important when you when you're hiring for this job more so than of course the aesthetic and the design skill is really important but you also want to tick off all these other boxes it's still also a corporate job you know you're hiring as a corporation it's like being a like it's like being a president it's what lion says walk with me It's like being a president when that title held a sort of different connotation, perhaps, where, you know, it's somebody that you really like, it's like you lead by example.

9:00It's not only their creativity. Like Chanel is like, you know, it's like an insanely global company. You have to be a lot of things to a lot of people and you have to get all of those things right pretty much all the time. Yeah. So I think there's also the kind of thing where like the the the mentally I think it's also a big part of the job. If you can be level headed, if you like all of those things factor in just like just the same way, I guess they would do any other job. But I think there's more than just the creative aspect for a job like this. 100 percent.

9:37OK, we're going to take a quick break.

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10:41And we're back. Well, we haven't talked about bags, which are an integral part of both Bottega, Veneta and Chanel. So I'm curious if you think he'll have sort of free reign, free license. There's such an identifiable Chanel bag. And yet he was so creative and inventive with the bags at Bottega. Well, I think he just he loves craftsmanship. I mean, he loves the make. He loves the artisans. I mean, I think he's someone who's really happy, you know, elbow deep in leather, which sounds like a terrible way to. for one of a better phrase i mean i think he's actually someone who really really is a maker he's a designer and a thinker and he's also a maker and i think for him that's going to be uh a really exciting thing i mean there's just been so much i mean i think for all of us watching his bottega it's been really uh you know the kind of level of inventiveness and thoughtfulness and humor.

11:40I think sometimes we forget the humor as well. I mean, the idea of a, you know, a singlet and a pair of jeans, but actually the leather or whatever, he kind of is good at a kind of wink, wink, nod in a very arch and funny and smart way. So I'm kind of, I don't know, get those wait lists fired up already. I would pay money to just like follow him when he like visits all of the Mathieu's and when he goes to like you know the Feather Atelier and the pleading one. That's a good idea. I was going to say here's a free idea. Dior and I but for Mathieu and Chanel. I mean because you know like he's you know I think another thing about Mathieu's is that he's unnerved about these kinds of things like you know he's just going to be in there and he's going to be like and I would love to also be there.

12:28Period. She said I'll film it. I will film it. Get the iPhone off. And a lucky guy he is because he gets to do couture for the first time. He does. And that, yeah, I mean, I'm so excited about that. Can you imagine? That's going to be fabulous. But I think I want to go back to your point about the bag, Nicole, for just one second. I think what's really interesting is that Chanel has iconic pieces, right? Has like the flat, has like the shoulder bag, you know, the quilted black shoulder bag. It has all of these iconic pieces that are IT products in themselves, but they're not IT bags or IT shoes in the way we know them now, right?

13:06Like how volatile fashion is. But something Matthew does is create IT products. So I'm really curious as to where that's going to go. Like what, you know, of course, the tried and true are going to be there and those are going to be great. His take on them are going to be great. But I'm also curious, to your point, like what does a Chanel IT bag today look like? Right, because I think there is a small group of people in the industry who are maybe a little skeptical about this appointment because he is such a conceptual, free-thinking designer. And yet he's going to a house that has a lot of rigor in terms of its codes.

13:44They're very well-defined. And so negotiating that will be really exciting for all of us to watch how he deals with that, I think. I think sometimes really creative people thrive under rules in the sense like when you have freedom to do whatever, like that's great. But when you have parameters to do, to express your, like that, to express your creativity through, that clicks open a different window. like not to compare myself or what writers do with that but it's the kind of way of how you you work like you work better under deadline yeah you think you have three weeks to do something and you're like yeah i have an idea and then you know two nights before you sit down the night before you sit down and suddenly like things come out better yeah now i'm not saying it's the same thing but i i feel like i could see matthew being excited about the challenge in that way where it's like he's had you know four years yeah to do whatever his heart desires and how and he's tasted this freedom and now how he's gonna bring like i think that's like i think as a designer that's an exciting challenge it's also like you you know it's it's a famous sort of art saying right it's like you have to know the rules in order to be able to break them and you also have to pick and choose which ones to break, right?

15:11And that was the success of like a Matisse or a Picasso, right? Like, again, different context. But I do think it's really interesting to consider, you know, he's clearly aware of what these codes are. We all are. And it's really exciting to be able to say which ones you can break, which ones you uplift. And again, what's that negotiation like? Knowing him as well as we all do, what do you think is on his to-do list? What do you imagine? Put ourselves in his mind. What does he want to do first? I bet he's been doodling a lot of double Cs in the last few weeks. Subconsciously. Double Cs. I feel like there is going to be an incredible little suit.

16:00I feel like every designer has imagined if I was going to do the classic Chanel suit, how would I do it? And so many have done it. So many have auditioned over the years. It's true, and so many have done it. Indeed. Some of those auditions have been kind of rather good. Yeah, I've joked about this in the past. I'm like, why would we pull out every single designer's audition for Chanel to just put them all together? And it is an interesting exercise because it does happen. One day we're going to start an OnlyFans, but it's just these kinds of articles that we can't actually write. But I've also loved the way Bottega, he's had those forays into furniture design, into the kind of broader culture, which also to me feels very Chanel.

16:45And in the weird way, it also feels very French. Like the recognition of fashion as part of the kind of cultural language of the country, of course, but also the world today. I'm kind of fascinated by what he's going to do with that. the broader palette he will have. Because at Chanel, yeah, it's the art world, the design world, it's the movie world. It's all sorts of other things. It's the literary world. I mean, it's something where he'll have a lot of touch points. And I think that's going to be really interesting to see who he brings in and who he supports and who he, you know, lionizes. Yeah, exactly.

17:21I'm also fascinated about the menswear of it all. You know, Chanel famously and historically does not have menswear. and Carl used to sort of throw a couple of menswear looks into some of his shows here and there. Famously, Pharrell used to wear a lot of Chanel before he went to Vuitton, right? We know that at Bottega, Matthew has Asa Brockie, has Jacob Lordi, some people who are really some of the best dressers in terms of celebrities at the moment, right? And they are men. You know, the Andiamo bag at Bottega became an Ed bag because partly because Jacob Lordi was carrying it, right? So I'm really fascinated by what that's also going to look like.

18:01Right. Laya and Jose, you both wrote a piece for the site today where you really dug into some of the very thoughtful and inspired things that Mathieu did at Bottega. And I want you to talk a little bit about those. And I'm excited because, you know, think of, you know, think of all of those ideas sort of times a hundred. And that's sort of what it feels like the possibilities are for him at Chanel. So, you know, one of my favorite memories of Mathieu's time at Bottega was the Strand dinner where he invited a small group of people to the rare book room and there was a dinner. And, you know, he told a great story about how much time he spent in the Strand, both early on as a kid and then when he was working in New York at Calvin Klein with Raph Simmons and Peter Moulier.

18:58and the funny story where he once fell asleep in the bookstore. And, you know, alongside that, he made a very cool tote bag that was sort of a grail for me that, you know, I never got a leather tote bag with the Strand logo. But what are some other things that you sort of, that he did that, you know, you feel that way, that, wow, the potential for Chanel is so big? Perverse finality. My favorite quote of his. Again, he is a really good, he just knows how to give you a soundbite. And, you know, as writers, like that's really what you want. You want the one soundbite that is going to allow you to write about someone's work, about someone's collection, about someone's sort of ethos.

19:37And perverse finality is something that the way he described to Unicol in his second runway show about his famous tremploi leather pieces, right? that were, as Mark was saying, like the tank top, the jeans, the plaid shirt. And I'm fascinated about, you know, how that concept can translate into, again, the Chanel icons, right? These things that we know so well that are so fun to play with. And again, he has this sort of mischievousness, right? He has this kind of very playful, which is another one, hand that I think will be really exciting. What about you, Laya? Yeah, I think after we came up with, what, 12-ish, 13 things.

20:24And, I mean, one of my favorites is, of course, that he is such a lover of print magazines. And he helped bring back Butt Magazine, the iconic queer magazine. And he also helped, like, other sort of young people and collectives to start, you know, to help fund their magazines, which I think is really cool. But I think my favorite, like the takeaway from our deep dive, I think, is that he's really just so driven by curiosity about the world. And he's just always down, like he's down to clown. I feel like he's just, he's like, that seems cool. What's that? Like, I think he's very unpretentious. And I think that that's also something that comes off from it.

21:11Because I think, you know, you could be like, oh, yeah, like I love books. Here's a dinner at the Strand. Like because I'm so well read and blah, blah, blah. But like that's not the vibe that he brings at all. Right. You're like, oh, yeah, this is your world. And I think that curiosity and, you know, I feel like there is a sense that he won't turn things down in a way. He's like, you give an idea. He's like, okay, let's see what's up with this. And I think that openness is the thing that I will remember about his time at Bottega and I'm most excited to see at Chanel. Yeah. Do you have a favorite moment, Mark?

21:54For Bottega? Oh, my goodness. I think seeing that first show that he did in Milan. We were all in masks still. Yes. And it was really just the energy in the room was kind of incredible. I just, and that was a difficult moment in a difficult time. I don't mean for him at the house. I mean, just generally at that time, culturally, historically, it was, as you said, it was, we were still deep in the kind of pandemic, the reverberations of the pandemic. But it was just, I thought, kind of magical and so exciting. And also that moment, again, not to sound horribly cliché, but to sound horribly cliché, you're like, wow, it's really like this is a major designer that's just emerged.

22:41It's kind of incredible. Yes, he's one of the few that can create that kind of atmosphere where you feel like you are at the pulsing heart of fashion. And you get it a few times a year, and definitely he can bring that.

23:01More on Mathieu Blaisier at Chanel after the break.

23:10Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

23:46Well, we shouldn't leave Louise Trotter out of this conversation. She is replacing him at Bottega Veneta. So excited. I'm so excited for this. I was going to say, I want to preface with this. For weeks, Mark has been talking about his love for Louise Trotter. I do love Louise. Which we love. We are all fans. It's again, in a weird way, she's very similar to Mathieu. She's someone who keeps it real. She's got a great sense of humor. She's super talented. She's lived her life. She's been at the front of her house. She's been behind the scenes. And she's talented. I keep coming at that. And she's talented.

24:26And yeah, I mean, it's true. Every time I would come down to your end of the office, and there was all those rumors about Mathieu leaving Bottega that we saw in the press and online Instagram and everything. And I was like, well, I hope they're going to give it to Louise Trotter. I hope they're going to give it to Louise Trotter. I kid you not, literally every single time. Every time we're going to have an opportunity to say something. Exactly. And then this morning, we were all in Nicole's office, and I just knew. I should have done a countdown. I just knew it. In the back of my head, I was like, three, two, one, and in goes Mark.

24:58It's a great day, isn't it? I have to say, I think it's great. And also, I would applaud caring for appointing a woman who is a certain age with a vast amount of experience, a vast amount of lived experience. As I said, super talented. I just think that's a really kind of wonderful affirmation. Both these appointments actually are, to me, a really wonderful affirmation of talent and an ability to make clothes and say really interesting things about clothes. And I feel the same way about Sarah Burton at Givenchy and Hader Ackerman at Tom Ford. Peter Copping at Lanvin. Peter Copping at Lanvin. I feel the same way.

25:40It's like the triumph of people who can really make clothes and are smart about them. And that is a great thing. And you have a special anecdote that we can't leave out. Well, it's a kind of anecdote. Well, kind of-ish. I mean, no. I mean, Louise and I have known each other for a long time. We weren't friends at college, but we were at Newcastle Polytechnic, the glamorously named Newcastle Polytechnic. Shout out Newcastle Polytechnic. Yeah, which is now actually, they rebranded it because even they were like, the name sounds terrible. So it became the University of Northumbria, which is in the north of England in the town of Newcastle.

26:10And we were there in the very, very, very late 80s. So I'm going to be giving my age away here. But she was studying fashion and I was studying art history. And, yeah, we kind of had similar friends and moved in the same orbit. But it was a small, it's a very kind of small city. And I think probably we're on the same dance floor together at various club nights in Newcastle back in the day. Mark has also lived a life, by the way. No, but it was, I don't know. I just think, I just applaud her for, you know, getting this great job because she's a great person, a great talent. Well, you, Mark, commissioned Julia Hobbs, our colleague at British Vogue, for a story in Vogue magazine earlier this year about Louise Trotter.

26:58About Louise Trotter for Carbon, yes. And I'm going to read this quote because this is my favorite fashion quote of the whole year. and I think it's something that designers around the world, and I've said this before, but everyone can learn from this quote. As a designer, you have to remain part of society. How do you feel the world if you're not in the middle of it? And I just love that. I love that. I think that entirely explains her ethos and I think that's why she's perfect for Batekha Venator. I mean, I think it applies. It's really interesting. I was in Hong Kong over Thanksgiving break.

27:30I went for a conference and I was walking with one of my friends who's an editor at a different magazine we were early for lunch with another friend and we're just walking around a mall, right? And we were really, something that we brought up is like some clothes really don't feel rooted in the real world at all, right? And some really, really do. And like we had just actually left Bottega, the Bottega store and we're like, oh, like this is, these are clothes. Like these are clothes you wear, like people dress this way. And that is really what it's, and I think also as ourselves as editors and writers, Like, our job is to be outside.