What is 2025 Bringing to the Wellness and Beauty Space?

0:28Welcome to The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel. Do you always go to one another for your beauty and wellness tips? It's become a bit of an annual tradition, this wellness. Well, I guess it's the second time we're doing it. And it's so much fun because, you know, I'm a secret wellness nerd. So all of the crazy things that I've been doing and that Tisha's been doing and that Jess has been doing, we sort of share and compare notes. And it's quite funny. Um, so lots to look forward to there. We get really candid. Like, you know, it's bodily function time. Choma sent me a question this morning. I think it's okay if it mentions this.

1:10I was like, absolutely. There was a certain point here that I was going to cut, but I figured embrace it. Embrace it. 2025 is about radical truth, no matter what Mark Zuckerberg says. Yes, be warned. Be warned. But before we get to that, let's get into some headlines. Our Vogue winter issue digital covers are out. How Sports and Fashion Fell in Love. This was such a real labor of love that came from Anna herself. It was sort of inspired by the year of 2024 really felt like this peak moment of sports and fashion aligning from the Olympics to the WNBA to tennis always feels fashion-y at Vogue. And so there are two digital covers.

2:04I'm sorry. I just have to. But I'm having a really hard time focusing today because of the Los Angeles wildfires. Oh, sorry. All of our thoughts are with all of our friends in L.A. and the firefighters who have been doing an amazing job. And I think the city's done a great job evacuating everyone. But I keep getting sent a lot of videos. My mom's house is in the Palisades and probably isn't there anymore. We'll find out tomorrow or hopefully. Oh, Chloe, that's awful. We are recording this on Wednesday afternoon, and the fires are very much not contained, and they're in fact spreading. So I'm sure, I hope by tomorrow when this airs, tomorrow morning, there will be more information.

2:59But I have been having a hard time sort of focusing on other things today. But I really give a lot of credit to the FDLA and know they're doing their best. But yes, the athletes' covers are fantastic. Angel Reese, who shared her news with Vogue.com exclusively about joining the draft instead of continuing at college last spring. And now people were so obsessed with the New York Liberty this season. Obviously, my beloved Ellie the Elephant. And Gabby Thomas was such a star from the Olympics. She is the incredibly elegant, gracious U.S. sprinter who won three gold medals. Yeah, she cleaned up at the Olympics.

3:51I remember seeing her run in Paris and it was just incredible. I'm a big fan of Angel Rees too, and I thought she looked gorgeous. Yeah, they both look fabulous on the covers. And Maya Singer, as ever, did a great job writing this sort of taking the pulse of the Zeitgeist piece about fashion and sports. And Norman Jean Roy shot the images. The wonderful friend Johanna Lomisi starred her first folk cover. Oh, wow. She starred Gabby. And then we had, obviously, the Golden Globes, which we covered. But thanks to the Golden Globes, we learned that Zendaya and Tom Holland are engaged with a East-West Marquise diamond.

4:37Yeah, Jessica McCormack? Yeah, Jessica McCormack. And people were— That's all the girlies. All the girlies. Yeah, Hannah actually is doing a piece today on all the ladies who have Jessica McCormack engagement rings. are you surprised by the news? Zendaya and Tom Holland I don't know I'm very into them as a couple I went through a period you know when you like watch a couple of videos of someone on TikTok and then that's all you get like around there is like a cute moment of them at some point or when they were lip syncing at something together they were both like singing in the stand somewhere and I watched like two of those videos and for like a month I was served only Tom Holland and Zendaya videos and then I was like you know what I'm in it for them I've been converted yeah that's pretty adorable And I kind of guess it's not a surprise because Zendaya's been in London so much.

5:25And, you know, to make that kind of commitment to someone, to basically move to London. I mean, she spends so much time there. Yeah. No, I'm very into them. You know, award season continues. Oh, I watched Baby Girl. And now I get the whole, now I'm sort of like mad I wasn't there for Harris Dickinson because he is so, it's so funny. I've seen him in so many movies. Well, not so few. And he didn't really register. But I think when you style him as this like downtown kind of like intern fuckboy, somehow he is so hot. I know. Hannah wrote a whole piece about Harris Dickinson's little gold chain is the new Palmess gold.

6:06He was like a gym designer and nailed it. He's in Triangle of Sadness. He didn't really register to meet there. Well, not in the same way, but like he is just so like he's just such a like he's that guy. It's incredible. I loved that film so much. Yeah. No, very much a talking point of this season. And speaking of the talking point of the season, if you have seen Baby Girl, you will know that when Nicole Kidman accepted her National Board of Review Award, She brought a full cup of milk with her on stage and sipped it, drank it down, which figures in the plot of the movie, and started a very lively conversation during our stand-up meeting this morning about the lengths celebrities go to for their Oscar press tours.

6:54You think it was real milk or do you think it was oat milk? That's what Laird said. She was like, what kind of milk? It's like an investigative report. And I don't think I could drink a whole glass of, like, real milk. I think I would be ill, to be honest. But, yes, I mean, from that to, like, Timmy Chalamet doing, he did some show where he was, like, singing or something. Anyway, everyone's really doing their press tours. Adrian Brody shirtless, last year Bradley Cooper wearing a New York Phil sweatshirt. People pull out all the stops. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

7:35Okay, so we'll be back in just a minute with my conversation with Tish Weinstock and Jess Dunger.

7:55You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

8:29So to kick off 2025, I cannot believe we are in the year 2025. It is a real trip. I really wanted to get your your takes on beauty and wellness so I'd love to start off with an introduction from each of you and also just to know what your favorite beauty product was that you tried last year oh my god I mean how long is a piece of string I feel like so um hi I'm Jess I'm Vogue's global beauty and wellness director Choma and I've been working together in London for the past year I'm obsessed with beauty I'm obsessed with wellness I'm lucky enough that it's my job but I really hoard products I mean if you come to my desk you've seen my desk you know and I just showed Tish my desk it's giving me anxiety actually I was like oh no you said yeah was it Marie Kondo that um but obviously some people file paper we file products so um I think if I was to talk about my favorite product from 2024 it probably would be so there's a couple things sorry it's really hard for me to narrow it down to one thing why don't you give us like top three top three, perfect so number one would probably be would probably be the road lip tint case everybody went crazy for that here's one she made earlier here's one I made earlier that's a nice colour, I've never seen that colour so this is like for autumn winter it's the plum berry and I just think it's so genius what is so good about this lip tint?

9:57the thing is, so the product is great Yeah. It's like, and that would probably be like an overarching theme, which we've written about is this kind of idea of like lip product textures. And it was kind of like the year of the lip oil, the lip tint, like lipstick obviously still stands, but like texture preferences, I think have really come into play when it comes to lip products. So genuinely use the lip tint all the time. And then they came up with this case and I'm like, but this is great. I don't even need a bag. I've got my phone. I've got my lip tint. I've got my wallet. All you need is your keys.

10:27The most genius marketing ever. And also it's so simple. You're like, how has no one ever done this before? I know. Soon our keys will be a QR code anyway. Yeah, exactly. And then this is all you need. But what I loved about it is obviously the physical product itself, but then the kind of conversation that it started, and you started to see everyone doing memes on TikTok about it. People were taping face sprays to the back of their phone and spritzing. I don't know if you saw it. I've seen people put some interesting things in there. Yeah, like you were putting a joint in there. Oh, my God. I actually, I was wearing mine for, do we call it wearing?

11:02I don't know. I was using mine for a bit. My phone was wearing mine for a bit. But like classic, chaotic, unhinged vibe from me. I didn't have the lip gloss in it. So I was just carrying this empty thing. And people were like, what is that? Yeah. And they're like, oh, is it a vibrator? Obviously, it was men asking me this. Is that a vibrator? I'm like. What a conversation start. I was like, oh, you don't know anything about the female anatomy. me obviously if you think that is a vibrator like where's the bit that goes in or like around anyway it was a nightmare it really exposed people for like their knowledge but I love things like that I love things that promote conversation and when it kind of just came out not a lot of people had it everywhere you went people like that's amazing that's genius so I just love things that are functional but also kind of like get you talking so that would maybe be number one and then it's also something that we wrote about was the return of like runway fragrance I feel like Runway Fragrance had such a moment and big fashion houses really returning to fragrance in a way that feels really like natural and like in a one house approach.

12:02So Fendi, Bottega, Balmain, Beauty, they all had like really big launches in the fragrance category. Louis Vuitton came out with a stunning fragrance they did with Pharrell. And I feel like obviously fashion fragrances aren't a new category, but the ones that have come out this year felt really purposeful, meaningful and actually really good. so there's one by Balmain called Carbon and every time I wear it oh I like the vert one oh stunning I mean but again their conversation starters every time I wear it people are like what perfume are you wearing and then on the flip side like niche fragrances still carry such weight and resonance and Kathleen Baird-Murray who's another one of our contributing beauty editors came out with this really stunning fragrance inspired by her family in Burma and it's called Catch Me If I Fall and that's probably such a good name I know oh my god yeah so that would probably be my third so like A lip case and two perfumes are probably like my products of the year.

12:54I'm Tish. I am a contributing beauty editor at Bourke. And the author of? And the author of, obviously, the author of How to Be a Goth. You know, it's on Undead Style. But it's basically a celebration of that more macabre style. It's about beauty. It's about fashion. And it's about women who are unapologetically themselves. and my favorite beauty moments this year they were less about products and more about treatments for me I think it was just about like trying to feel well and be well so I've been doing quite a lot of different things I've been lying sort of like in a coffin which is very on brand in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber I've done that too there's like the individual ones that you lie down and then I went in with my husband the other day so we were like couples that yeah they have a hyperbaric together yeah they have like a this is like a bubble it almost looks like a sauna you can watch Netflix basically I went in and did that I also did the hydrogen therapy oh yeah I have the hydrogen water I feel like it's it freaks everyone out everyone thinks it's like when it's like bubbling away I know everyone thinks it's like a I don't know like a air soda stream or something yeah no it's like a wellness thing I love it it's so good so I did this whole thing the thing that I found most sort of like out of my comfort zone it was this thing called what are we I couldn't say it oh this was the thing insufflation we had to write it down oh yeah what insufflation so it's ozone insufflation I think I have done it up your yeah yeah both parts no I haven't had vaginal I've had I've had both I've had bottom so sorry can we just unpack this because literally it's blowing we were like googling what it was called Blowing air at my house.

14:44Yeah. In advance of doing this. And I've never done it. No. Because, like, the idea of even a colonic is just not for me. But this thing, you don't feel a thing. Yeah. Do you? Apparently some people get bloated after. Oh, no, I don't feel bloated after, but you can feel, obviously, something is... And is it to promote gut health? Yeah, sorry, to, like, be technical. Yeah. To promote gut health and to sort of destroy the bad bacteria that's lining the gut, that's basically causing bloating. this problem with bowel movements. God, I'm really, like, lowering the tone of the bowel. No, no, no. Welcome to the ran through.

15:18I think you're the only other person I know who's done insufflations. I recently did this. I'm so intrigued. Anyway, I felt great afterwards of that day of extreme, because I'm, like, extreme wellness to combat the sort of extreme unwellness of daily life. And like, you know, as much as we love our skincare and our makeup and everything, like that's not going to make me feel well. It might make me feel good at the moment. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Which I think I'm obviously here for. But like, I want to feel well on a deeper level. Me too. And also like, all of this is at our disposal. And obviously there's barrier to entry that it's all very expensive.

15:54Yeah. It's eye-watering. Yeah. But we had that piece in the recent issue, which was basically talking about like, how the 1 % are well. And so it's how, you know, if you can afford it, you can do all these unbelievable wellness practices. But then all of the doctors that Hannah, who was our writer, all of the doctors that she spoke to were essentially like the stuff that keeps us well is all stuff you can do for free. It's like sleeping well. Yeah, sleep is so crucial. Eating well, eating the right things, breathing, but doing it properly. Breathing so underrated. Yeah, but doing it properly. Like all of these things are things that we do, but we just take them for granted slightly.

16:33so even you know talking about wellness trends it's like that kind of it it's a pendulum swing because there's all of this insane amazing high-tech stuff but then there's this wealth of stuff that's just available to everybody but you just got to tap into it and that's actually the more important yeah exactly no amount of like blowing bubbles up your butt is going to replace a good night's sleep he's also don't try that at home amen don't like get a straw no i feel like this episode needs like a medical disclaimer description like speak to your medical professional Yes. That the goth says. We're all very sort of wizened to these ideals of perfection where beauty comes into it and we're sort of aware of those.

17:11But this idea of self-optimization is also something that we've conflated with being healthy. Oh, tell me more. This sounds very like... Well, so basically the optimized self is all about living our best selves in terms of healthy, like holistically and wellness and everything. But we can actually do quite unhealthy, you know, we can live quite an unhealthy life in order to reach that ideal and attain that ideal. Because how do you measure absolute optimal wellness? You can't. But it's about a feeling. And your feeling is influenced by so many more things. Like your hormone level, like if you're feeling completely deranged that day, you're like, I feel unwell.

17:51And yet the next day you might be completely fine. It's like your perception. Or you've had a bad day and someone was mean to you. And you're like, oh, the world's ending. like what is optimal health like what does that look like and what it looks like to me might be very different like optimal health is one pilates session a week for me that's really that for me this year it's been about optimizing my sleep but my trade-off is i can either sleep or i can exercise so i could get up at like 5 30 or 6 and do a workout but i want to bank my sleep so that's my it's like just just kind of like deciding what your trade-off is and actually what you need to kind of get you over the line to feel like a normal functioning human being so for me it's like prioritizing sleep over exercise but I want to get to the point that I can do a little bit of everything but I'm just not there yet with where I'm at with my kids and with work and just being I suppose realistic actually of like little things that you can do in the everyday to feel just slightly less deranged.

18:51I think sleep over exercise every time. There's very heat debates on social media about this. Exactly, exactly. Because some people are like, well, you need to move and you need to exercise and that's the only way that you can then sleep better. But everyone's different, right? Speaking of debates on social media, what do you think were the beauty and wellness trends that dominated 2024? Anything that you're hoping kind of dies in 2024? I mean, I always look to our analytics on our website to know like what the zeitgeist are feeling like parsley. Apparently turmeric shots. Well, this is it. I'm like, so for me, 2024 was the year of the ingredient.

19:28And we just see like apple cider vinegar, magnesium, turmeric. Like there are these just one hit wonders that really fly and connect with people. and I think that's also really interesting you know when we look at the analytics of the site like sometimes like a month on month the top three pieces are wellness related and they're always things that are like honing in and lasering on like a specific ingredient that people are talking about on TikTok or Instagram but I think people really want to learn more about them so I think I hope that continues because I feel like people are really wanting to educate themselves in this space and even if it's just like you're reading it and absorbing in the information and not necessarily having apple cider vinegar every morning but just knowing that's something that maybe you want to do um i think that's not going to go away do you think it has something to do with the fact that like we're talking about making changes right and realistic changes for me it's like the idea of doing one thing that i can add yeah like ask me to add anything do not ask me to subtract so true so things i do not want to don't deprive me if you want to add some things we can do that easy steps 100 a bit of like apple cider in the morning turmeric in your food yeah magnesium in your bath seed oil not seed a black seed oil yes yeah these are little things that anyone can do because i think it's not like the goop sort of vagina candle i think people are like no this is what are you talking about is that being left in 2024 yeah is that 2024 it might have even been 20 wherever whenever it happens it can stay there I think like unhinged wellness ideas and people are like, oh my God, it's like, unrelated, it's like, how's, come on.

21:04But I think also, I don't know, things that I would quite like to see left behind are all of these beauty trends related to food. So like the blueberry blush or the strawberry manicure or the donut thing. Right, the donut, glazed donut. I'm like, why does everything have to be related to food? I know. I'd be quite happy to see the back of that. Well, we're sort of running out of nice food. And, like, you know, you're not going to be like, ooh, the Parmaham glass or something, you know. The Parmaham glass. It could be a thing, maybe narrowly. Speaking of food related. Yes. I mean, it's not really food, but it's got a, you can eat it.

21:41Salmon sperm. Ooh, tell me more. Polynucleotide. What the hell, where am I supposed to put this? Injection in your face? You can have it in the neck. Stop it. Yeah. You inject it in your face? Yeah. To be honest, I've never, like, used filler, but I think something natural. Okay, so I would totally expect it in my face. Basically, it's going to replace the trend for filler and Botox. Because people don't want to look true. Not Botox, but filler. So what does it do? It just kind of... So basically, it's like... It's kind of soft and... So it's salmon or trout, by the way. Jesus. Salmon seems more chic.

22:19I don't think I could do trout. Also, I keep calling it salmon sperm and all the medical practitioners are like, why do you call it that? It sounds so gross. So the technical term is polynucleotides or salmon DNA. But if you really want to get into the specifics, it's salmon sperm. But is it just that? Are there any other ingredients? It's basically, from a sort of cell perspective, the most close thing that you get to the human cell. Wow. So when you inject it into the skin, it's causing all this amazing regeneration of the skin. Wow, it's got nothing to do with PRP? A bit similar, actually. Not far off.

22:54And so, you know, even we were saying that you can inject it into your scalp in the same way you can with PRP. It's just all about regeneration. But the results and the... How new is this? How have I not heard of this? Why am I not doing this? I mean, we've written about it on the site. Sorry, my bad. But it's like it's a 2024 thing. It's recent. Okay, cool. And I'd say if 2023 was like the year of Profilo, which is what people were injecting for like volume and glow. Right. It's like, which was almost like a pure hyaluronic acid. It's not fake volume. No. The filler is sort of artificial volume.

23:24You've literally got something there. Right. Creating sort of the chiaroscuro of the face. Write that down. But the salmon sperm is sort of like getting, and it's not like a fishy bukkake all over your face. It's like injected in there, and it just stimulates. So we need it. Yeah. I mean, do you have noticeability? Have either of you tried it? Yeah. I'm like, do you? I'm going to get it tomorrow. Oh, my God. Tell me everything. I will. Okay, so I've had it in my neck, and that you have to like. wear a polo neck afterwards if but then you just because you'll be a bit bruised yeah so you've got a little like so you look like a little vampiric yeah kind of I mean the thing is I'll be like oh don't look and then I'll be like look I've had this which is like very much like my way of being I'll be like oh like I'm not going to tell people you have like little puncture wounds in a way yeah but then more mounds and then you can have it people get it under the eyes which I haven't had right yeah boost collagen boost cell renewal it's basically And if you use serum topically, it's like a way of injecting it.

24:26Oh, wow. Okay. But, you know, people are obviously nervous because it's an injectable and it falls in the sort of same category as other things that you have injected in your face. It's how all of these treatments are kind of like moving forwards in the sense that like filler and Botox will always be Botox, but filler was like a sort of unnatural compound that you were putting into your face. It would have to be dissolved if you didn't like it and it would take a while for your body to process it. These are all things that are kind of bioavailable and like semi-natural. So your skin is more, obviously everyone is different, but your skin is more likely than not to accept it.

25:03Wow. It's really cool. I'm a big fan. Big fan. And I won't name any names, but there's lots of people in our office who have also had it. And if you see anyone who's like particularly glowing or radiant, the chances are I've sent them to have salmon sperm treatment. Oh my God. I love it. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Just let me know if you want me to hook you up. I mean, I might be breaking my injectable virginity. But also, that's the thing, because it's not a foreign compound. Something, yeah. Something natural I can handle. Exactly. For me, I think I'm just still part of that generation that is a little bit like...

25:37Quite rightly so, though. Yeah. I mean, Tish, I love the piece that you wrote about for your wedding. Yeah, that was a nightmare. Yeah, let's talk perception. Let's talk about it. Yeah, let's call perception drift. I've written loads of pieces about, like, how to get ready for your wedding. So there's that. And I know sort of what you're meant to do and what you're not meant to do. And what you're not meant to do is get any sort of, like, procedure very close to, like, the date. Because, like, these go wrong, right? There's swelling. There's bruising. Also, like, if you haven't done it before, that's – and suddenly you look a little bit different.

26:16That's not what you want either. that but then I also I'm not immune to all these other like ideals that we and like ideas about your wedding day um wanting to look your best and we're just bombarded with images of being of people looking great and stunning and photoshopped and filled and there's all of these treatments available like at my fingertips as a beauty editor so I was like why not why not but this was wait how close to the wedding I can't remember now was it like two weeks before Yeah, something like really sort of traumatic like that. And like it's also very me to do something that I know I shouldn't be doing.

26:52So I went to someone who I was very trusted and I was like, put something in my lips. And he was like, no. I was like, do it. And he was like, I'm not doing that. I was like, okay, fine. I'll show you. So off she tries to someone who will do it. Off I try to some like back alleyway and be like, you know, hook me up. Tish. No, no. I went against everything I know. And I was like, enjoy me. I was like, when my husband peels back the veil on my wedding day, I don't want to let myself. Obviously, I'm making awkward chat in the chair while my lips were being numbed. And then I'm just taking pictures of the numbing cream and, like, the hairnet that goes on and just being like, lol.

27:28Anyway, and then I just, it was just really bad. But also, do you know what? You're not actually thinking about what you look like on that day. Right. You're just having a good time. Yeah, you're just having a good time. Anyway, it's fine. and the thing is like you can dissolve it you can get rid of it so did you do that? and it really hurt it stings a little yeah how long is that process? also I thought I was like about to lose my lips when I dissolved it yeah because because it stings I think it's always a sign of a good doctor someone that says no I think so too I think you need a doctor that says no yeah 100 % I think someone is like no that's not going to work for you you should listen and take it boundaries yes we need boundaries 100%.

28:12Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood. There's 100 wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

28:48Well, Jess, speaking of boundaries, I think, speaking of, speaking of, I feel like one of the big kind of controversies and conversations in 2020, 2024, at least in the UK, was about preteens and older kids kind of experimenting with skincare. And I remember it kind of hit home for me because I was talking to one of my best friends and her daughter's, I think, 10, and I was like, oh, what does she want for Criscos? And she was like, drunken elephant or something. And I was like, I'm like, she's 10. I know. And like, what is drunken elephant? 10-year-olds do not need serums that are 60 pounds. I've got nieces who range from 13 to 22, and they're always like my barometer of beauty.

29:29So I'm often like, what do you think of this? And what do you think of this? And often they'll come to my house and they'll have rummage through the products. and my 13-year-old niece took my drunk elephant retinol, which is because it's like pretty and it's pink. No, it was not erotic. I think it was an acid of some description. Oh, dear. And I was like, no, no, you can't have that. That's not for you. She took it anyway. Classic. Yeah, classic. Because she loved it. She'd seen it on Instagram. It looked pretty. She had the most awful reaction. My sister-in-law was furious. Not with me, but just like Jess said, don't take it.

30:05why did you still do it but she's seen it on instagram yeah and she did learn the hard way and also she's got like i feel like she's probably like not irreversibly damaged but she's had a lot of flare-ups since because i think her skin barrier just got so screwed up yeah that it's taken time so then i i almost gave her like a prescription of like how to build her skin barrier back up with like lots of very gentle like calming ceramide products um but i just it was just so indicative of like what's going on now and I think we spoke about it on the pod before but I just feel like education about skincare for teens almost should be as ingrained as brushing your teeth yeah so it's like really basic but as soon as you kind of get to the age that you're like a bit sweaty you know you're going to start wearing deodorant start washing your face use a very gentle moisturizer but it does not need to be like a crazy serum that looks cute on Instagram just like very gentle and so we've written a few pieces about it both in print and online speaking to like various experts but there's some really cute brands that have come out of all of this which have basically been um created by mums who've had these exact issues with their with their kids um and they're literally for preteens there's brands like indoo bubble um solid and stripe i think is the name of the other one and i feel like those are the brands that you want to go to So, you know, Drunk Elephant's an incredible brand, but they're not for preteens.