With His New Shirts-Only Collection, Phillip Lim Wants to PlayLoveWin

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2:11This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. I'm here in the studio with designer Philip Lim, who for 20 years ran his namesake brand 3-1 Philip Lim, and whose new project, Play Love Win, launches the same day this episode airs. Philip, welcome to the show.

2:27Phillip Lim:Thank you, Nicole. It's such a pleasure to be here with you. In July, you announced Play Love Win on Instagram. Tell us what the project is. Wow. It is my third chapter in life. From a practical level, it is a singular destination for all your shirting needs that meets your most inspired moments. And from a spiritual level, it's a way to live. Why shirts? Shirts to me represent that unsung hero that when you put on a fresh shirt, it instantly resets your mind. And I'm in a space where I think that to get back to my purpose, it is important to reset that. And while I took a break, a short break, I realized what the shirt did for me.

3:30Phillip Lim:Every single day I would put on a different shirt and it would set my mood. And it came back to just this idea of like, why don't I just work on something that I wear every day, do something for myself, really go at it in a way where you just obsess over it. It's almost like exercising something to the point where, okay, let's hero that unsung hero. Well, let's get this out of the way first. As I said, you ran your own label for 20 years, but you walked away at the end of 2024. Why did you do that? Oh, we're going to go there, huh? I was not honoring myself anymore. I lost my sense of play. I was in a place where I was managing more than I was creating and I realized that's not what I am good at and not what I want to do.

4:30Phillip Lim:It wasn't an easy decision. It was almost 10 years in the making because, you know, life is not black and white and, you know, building 3.1 Philip Lim to the point that it was, it was complicated. It was very involved in, you know, so many things you have to consider. And, you know, there's a sense of responsibility. But ultimately, I wasn't of the right service anymore. Well, I have to say I admire someone who can identify what isn't going right in their life and pivot. And the way you put it a couple of weeks ago when we were chatting was so great. You said that eventually everyone has to walk away from the buffet.

5:18So you have walked away from the buffet and you are focusing very singularly on shirts. It happens to be a really good moment for shirts, right? You had Mathieu Blaisie at his Chanel debut partner with Charvet and Chanel subsequently bought Charvet, the shirt maker, the Parisian shirt maker. So do you think of this as kismet, that it's a good moment? It's definitely kismet.

5:46Phillip Lim:It is definitely kismet. When I saw that news, when I saw the shirts on the Chanel runway, I was like, oh, wow. This is either going to signal, oh, he's following suit, or it's a zeitgeist. You know, the antennas are up and it signaled the fact that, you know, I was able to bring myself back to a place where my antennas were dusted off. And I could feel, you know, what was percolating in this category. And when I was looking back at the dates of just like thinking about and bringing the project together, it predated that show. And it was definitely kismet. And, you know, I think that Anna, I'm in this room and I just can't stop thinking about her because she gave me the best advice ever.

6:44Phillip Lim:Everything is about timing. When you're too early, nothing's open. When you're too late, everything's closed. So it comes back to timing, luck, self-possession, and really being excited about making shirts really well. Well, I presume you're wearing a Play Love Win shirt. Yes, I am. What makes a shirt a Play Love Win shirt? It is about the intentions. When I think about how I work, how I design, I always observe people. I observe their gestures, how they move into the world. the way they roll up the cuffs, you know, what they place in their pockets. And I work around that because, you know, that's my job as a designer to be of service, to make things better.

7:34Phillip Lim:And for example, this simple, not so simple, Oxford called the Billy, Billy's my brother, is cut in this beautiful high twist Japanese Oxford that gives a certain structure. because, you know, I think traditionally the Oxford is to wear throughout the day. And I wanted to recreate that idea of like something you would keep forever because the quality, the materials. But even if you look at this pocket too, even the way we design the pockets, it's really like put my glasses in this pocket here and I could also put my phone in here. They never touch. So even going back in and scrutinizing function, form, materiality, and really how to craft a product because I spent the last 30 years working on that.

8:28Phillip Lim:Now I can use that experience and focus on a singular product and obsess and exercise it to the point of joy. What other obsessions sort of appeared to you when you were making the shirts and how are they showing up in the actual product? I mean, the basic stitches per inch, right? You know, it's just like I get to geek out again because that's what initially brought me into fashion. Geeking out over just something I obsessed with, even this idea of like buttons, right? Today, a lot of the shirts are nylon plastic buttons. You know, to even go back and touch and feel the fineness of real mother or pro buttons and realizing that every single one is slightly different and accepting that in a way is really accepting the imperfections, but also celebrating that.

9:21Yeah. And the business model is quite different than at your former brand. Is that right?

9:27Phillip Lim:Yeah. Yeah. I am also allowing myself a graduate class of doing things a different way. You know, my former brand, we were born in a time where it was really wholesale driven. And that was the business model. And during that time, things changed. There was a transition to direct to consumer. You know, we tried to dabble in that, but you can never really do it right because you would have to either have major funds or just restart again. And this time around, you know, going through the years, I realized there is no right or wrong. It's really what works for you. And maybe it's a combination of different models, right?

10:11Phillip Lim:This time around, from a sheer place of wanting to control the narrative first, we're launching direct to consumer. But at the same time, in that transition, I'll be honest with you. It's really like, I realized the beauty of our shirts, you'd have to experience it. Textiles, the structure, the construction, it looks as beautiful inside as out. And I realized that, you know, maybe it's necessary to have some brick and mortar partners. So right now we're kind of retrofitting slightly and adjusting to also have physical launch partners, just a handful. So it's really, to me, it's another reminder of everything is alive.

10:56Phillip Lim:And to meet the moment is you have to be in the moment. And you have to be open for the moment and have a structure that is very agile but focused. The concept is sort of anti-fashion in a way because popular styles will always be available, right? If I fall in love with a Billy shirt or my husband falls in love with a Billy shirt, he will be able to get it a year from now the same as he can get it on September 1st. Yes. And that was part of the impetus as well. While building this project, I did a survey with just friends and a group of trusted people. And I asked, where do you get your shirts?

11:38Phillip Lim:Where do you buy your shirts? Do you go there constantly? And what I got back was, that's a great question. You know, I buy from here, but it's not right. I buy when I find something. I buy very expensive shirts, but I'm a bit cautious to wear it. Or I buy throwaway. But I can never find what I love again because it's so seasonal and cyclical. And I wanted to come back here too and just start this idea of building this perennial foundation. So this first launch, a fall winter edit. And I don't want to use it to classify as a seasonality, but it is literally when we're launching. It is a profile of different shapes and types of shirts.

12:27Phillip Lim:So when I say, you know, Play Love Win is a singular destination for all your shirting needs, I mean that. It's not a single shirt. It's not a single shirt with many different fabrics. it's not this idea where it's just the shirt I want it's really thinking about everyone and the types of fits they want the types of usage case you know and even like this idea of going back and just dreaming about what a shirt could be so this whole idea is like play would be what a shirt be. Love is the continual perennials that, you know, you find your fit, you come back and, you know, it's going to be there.

13:10Phillip Lim:We develop signature fabrics from scratch. You know, I have this one beautiful vintage wash broadcloth that was inspired by 80s Ralph Lauren shirts, obsessed with a touch, a slight peach skin, but also like weighty enough so it's not see-through. And that's going to be something that we always carry as a house fabric. And then win is the collaborations, you know, really opening up this idea where we're not alone in this. It's a whole community. And we can choose to be a brand on an island or a brand that, you know, welcomes to play with each other and win together. Well, more on that soon, I'm sure.

13:56Will people who were fans of yours or have been fans of yours for the last 20 years see Philip Lim-isms in this collection, and what will they be? Absolutely.

14:09Phillip Lim:First of all, I'm revealing what it is to you for the first time. People don't know it's a shirt brand until I guess when they listen to this podcast, they will know, right? Yeah, it is going back and thinking about that added value. Not necessarily what you see, but what you feel. You know, when I started 3.1, the first question I had was, why can't we have it better? You know, we were at a stage where we're all young professionals reaching and aspiring. but we could not spend our money just on a singular piece of clothing. It was based in reality. And this time around, I get to come back and do that again with a single category and really get it to a place where it's really nice.

15:04Phillip Lim:It really has a certain value. It will not be the cheapest. It isn't the most expensive, but you'll see the value in it. you'll feel the value in it. And hopefully, first time you try it, you try other ones too. And for me, that's what I do well, I believe. Well, speaking of the early days, in my closet, I still have a micro-check wool cropped trench from one of your very earliest collections that has stood the test of time. And a black jumpsuit that was from a little bit later that I think of as very Angelica Houston at Studio 54, which was another keeper. So right from the start, what attracted me to you was this sort of right price point that you were giving us fashion, but it wasn't at the high fashion prices of the very top designers.

16:04And that will hold true here too, as you're saying.

16:08Phillip Lim:Absolutely. It's what I am. It's what I identify with. It's what I think is the right balance. You know, we're in a place in fashion where it's so, so cheap at all costs, literally. Or it's astronomical at all costs, literally. And it's funny how we got here because it didn't used to be this way. You know, there was this rich middle ground of just ideas and value. And, you know, that brought me to love fashion and clothes in particular. And I want to get back to that using a shirt, you know, a simple shirt, a vehicle that we all have. And if you think about it, a shirt appears at every important ceremonial part of our lives, right?

17:06Phillip Lim:it has no expiration date it's not like okay 30 days out it's done it's tired you know what i mean we actually grow into the shirt and i just want to play around in that um sandbox to see what comes out of this and i and you know i i think that again this is using a vehicle that touches all of us or or we have in our closets and how can we make that better slowing down the time, but also not being unrealistic about a business of fashion, the business aspect, right? So it sounds like you've thought a lot about the consumer in putting this launch project together. Where are shoppers' minds at when you think big picture?

17:56Like what's missing from fashion? What's wrong with fashion? And how does Play Love Win address that?

18:03Phillip Lim:you know i'm i'm not uh a researcher in that aspect i try to just be in the shoes i am a shopper i am the i am the consumer basically and i think it's with such a busy life and more and more i hear i don't know where to go i don't know where to shop i don't know where to find this i don't know where to find that because it becomes so either again i don't want to spend my money throwing away. And I can't afford that. And I also don't have time. So I'm trying to take all these factors and put it in a place at playlovewin.com where if you want a shirt that you might get lost in the discovery, the storytelling of the features of a shirt, we put it on the website.

18:58Phillip Lim:So it becomes not only a place where you can find what you're looking for, but also learn about the details. We have a glossary section where what is a button down? Where did it come from? What is a French cuff? What was inspired by? What is a hidden placket? What does that mean? What is a hidden placket, Philip? A hidden placket is your center front placket where the buttons are hidden, literally. So right now with this Billy shirt, it's a classic placket where you see the buttons. But a hidden placket is it would be a fold of fabric on top of it and usually done in more formal shirts. Right.

19:39Phillip Lim:So it feels like very effortless and you don't see the buttons. So we have that, too. So, you know, it is a place where I want to not only offer you maybe what you're looking for consistently, but also share my knowledge. It's a place where, you know, fun facts, right? It's a place where, you know, you learn about the materials. It's a place where there's a lot of education, not education, inspiration behind it so that maybe we get back to a place where we appreciate it. Because I think that's the barrier too, where, you know, the barriers become too difficult, too fast, is incongruent with our value system, or we can't afford it.

20:24Phillip Lim:So we just like, I give up. And maybe that's why we're here. Because we've all kind of given up. And I don't believe that's the way forward. I think we should give a shit. I think we should start to exercise the small things that bring us back to a place where we feel like we're in play. We're in discovery. We love the process. And we get to redefine the win. We're going to take a quick break.

21:00as fall is approaching i've been feeling a little bit stale with my closet i've been looking in there and realizing that i kind of rewear the same thing every single day and it's not exciting me to get dressed in the morning anymore as someone who usually loves to get dressed so i want to add a few fall pieces that will help me elevate the outfits I already gravitate towards. That could be a nice high-end handbag or some fun accessories to give a new life to my closet staples. And I think Macy's is the perfect place to do that. So I'm gonna head over to Macy's to get all of my essentials and I recommend that you do the same.

21:41Shop Macy's online or in store today. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear?

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22:51So let's talk about the almost two years in between when you left your first brand and you're launching this one. What did you do and how did it give you this crystallization of this idea?

23:06Phillip Lim:That's a great question. And every time I rethink about the journey, you know, it kind of, I hate to say this, but it was meant to be. When I left, it was October 31, 2024, which is Halloween. And I had planned to take a hiatus because it's been a while since I was able to take a hiatus. and I had to travel to Hong Kong and then Thailand to just fulfill some commitments. And I remember before I left, which was in November 26, I think. So almost a month by the time I left. November 24. 24, yeah. I keep messing the years up because it's been so quick. before I left I was asking myself what is it you want to do and I did not have an answer but then I rephrased that how do you want to live and the simple words were play, love, and win again, come back to creative play because that's what I do and you don't even have to be categorized in a creative field to come back to play in your everyday life what brings you joy, right?

24:27Phillip Lim:And I was going to also like relearn the process so that I can appreciate the process. And no matter how difficult, love it again. Love, because ultimately when you do things with love, no matter how difficult, even hard conversations, you know, something good happens out of that. And also the big word, win, as a son of immigrants, I am still working on this idea. Do I deserve to win? Do we deserve to win? Why do we do so much and we overachieve and we push ourselves to the edge just to be okay? Just to get to that acceptability. And I think about my career and it was always just getting to that line and I was okay with it.

25:17Phillip Lim:No matter what it was. Because I was so grateful. But with this chapter, I want to break through. I want to win and I want you to win and I want us to win together. And winning is not about like, yeah, that award or the accolades or whatnot. Winning is a personal matter. Winning is how I define, how you define. For me, winning is like as a son of immigrants, as Philip Lim coming to this for the third time, how do I break through? That will be my win as long as I say to myself, yeah. So I believe that you were born in Thailand and you lived in Cambodia before moving to California. As you said, you're the son of immigrants.

26:02How does your family and that experience show up in your work?

26:08Phillip Lim:It shows up in the hard work. It shows up in the values. it shows up in making sure that whatever I put out into the world you know it is valuable and I say that in a way where you know I don't come from means basically you know it is this idea of having a mother that showed me love no matter what unconditionally is it is his father who roll the dice every day. And between those two polarities, I'm here. And this idea of like, not been giving anything other than using this intrinsic creative superpower to get myself here. I understand the value of being here. I understand the value of opportunity.