Wunmi Mosaku Was a Math Genius, Now She’s an Oscar Nominee

10:58Chioma:Thank you for giving us all. so then I picked up drama and then you know I really struggled with I'm not great I've got dyslexia you know I found out like I found out a couple years ago I have ADHD and I just was like I really I started getting accepted to university for maths and economics and I started getting panic attacks and really bad insomnia and I was like I just don't feel like this is right for me like my family are very academic but they also have I can see the artistry in what they do they think outside the box

11:38Wunmi Mosaku:my dad's a professor in architecture

11:41Chioma:was a professor in architecture my mum in chemistry that's why I picked chemistry I thought it was going to be an easy path

11:46Wunmi Mosaku:you came from a family of boffins

11:48Chioma:yeah my sisters did like biochemistry and neuroscience and engineering and politics and I was like I can see how their brains work and that they are not just good at it, not just good at following rules and regulations. They actually take it upon themselves to kind of go further, push it further. And I wasn't like that with maths. So I was like, I just feel like a sheep, and I'm not actually going to ever be brilliant at this. because it was very obvious to me that it wasn't really for me. It was just following instructions. And so, you know, I said I wanted to be an actor and me and my sister Googled everyone from the cast of Annie, which is my favorite film.

12:40Chioma:And then Sir Albert Finney went to RADA. That's how I heard about RADA in the moment. I was like, it's 30 pounds. Like, don't mess it up. But also, if you do, you've got the...

12:50Wunmi Mosaku:American listeners, Radha is like one of the best drama school, is basically the best drama school in the country.

12:56Chioma:I'm very lucky that I got in because it's not usual to get in first round versus first time.

13:05Wunmi Mosaku:Well, you're extremely talented. Maybe you need to own that too.

13:07Chioma:I mean, but it's also just like, it's one of those things that if you want to go to drama school, most people know that you might not get in first time, but you might get in the second. Okay. But I really thought it was my only chance. And if I didn't get in, I had to go. I promised my mom I'd go and do maths and economics. I can't do it. But like, painless, no, I can't do this.

13:27Wunmi Mosaku:I can't do this. And obviously, you know, I can't imagine what it was like to audition for the role with Ryan. And I know you were cast right away. But tell us how you found out about the movie or what made you want to, I mean, no brainer. Obviously, you wanted to be in this film, but tell us what you were thinking when you were going to the show.

13:47Chioma:I mean, first of all, I didn't even, you know, my team said, Ryan Coogler wants to meet you for his next project. And I was like, Ryan Coogler knows who I am. I love this. That's pretty damn cool. That is very cool. So I got seven pages, the scene between Annie and Smoke in her shop. One of my favorite scenes in the whole thing. The most beautifully written scene ever. Yeah. Like, just such a perfectly written scene. Like, you know so much about those two people. Just from that little... Everything. You know, their faith. You know what they put their hopes and dreams into. You know, where they differ, where they...

14:26Chioma:And what they love and who they love.

14:29Wunmi Mosaku:And their mutual admiration and respect for each other, which I loved.

14:32Chioma:Do you know, I mean, you even get the feeling about her brother. His brother, how she feels about his brother. and you get like you learn about her grandma you learn about her place in society like her with the two little girls you know and that she doesn't value money and that he only sees money and power as the only the only currency that's worth having but then he still has her mojo bag because he truly he truly believes in her you know and so I had that scene and and I basically said that to him i was like it's the most perfectly written scene i've ever read like it was perfect and i don't know how you did it it doesn't feel like exposition it doesn't feel like anything their loss of the her their baby oh that pop just so simple like the the simplest dialogue like well why didn't it work on her i don't know but it worked on you that's this that's it like and to me that felt like annie poured all she had into smoke's mojo bag when they first met that's how much she loved him she poured everything into that mojo bag that he's carried until the day he dies um so then then we you know we spoke about teachers good teachers and bad teachers the teachers that helped us bloom and the teachers that almost made a shrivel away from our purpose and who are those people in your life I'm only going to talk about the good ones let's talk about the good ones the bad ones do not get looking right I would say like Tom Wells at my at my high school at Trinity Wynne Moran and Rob Faulkner so Tom Wells is a my drama teacher my drama teacher Wynne Moran and Rob Faulkner at Severian Melvin Burgess the guy who came to see the play you know and Bill Gaskell my one of my tutors at RADA who gave me my first job outside of RADA and but yeah we talked about that how did that come up in the conversation like in the audition it's quite an unusual I guess every audition is different and some directors

16:49Wunmi Mosaku:that's they want to get to know who you are that's exactly Ryan wants to get to know who you are

16:54Chioma:how you got here why you're here I don't think sometimes I don't think teachers really appreciate how important they are. Maybe because society doesn't tell them or the government doesn't let them know how important they are. They're definitely undervalued. Completely undervalued. They should be the highest paid because without them, we don't have the doctors, we don't have the lawyers, we don't have the politicians, we don't have anything without the teachers, actually. So I feel like, you know, but sometimes I think they underestimate those small comments here and there. They can really change someone's life or they can really divert them from off the path that they think they're meant to be on.

17:36Chioma:They're powerful people. Powerful. They're like healers. They can pull you in the right direction and pull you in the wrong direction. 100%. 100%. So we talked about that. We talked about our kids. We talked about our family. We talked about hoodoo and African spiritualities, something I knew nothing about and was kind of scared of.

17:58Wunmi Mosaku:What's your relation to it now that you've— I know that you're also, speaking of teachers, you're currently taking Yoruba lessons. Yeah. I feel less guilty for not knowing my dad's language.

18:10Chioma:You can't teach yourself from nowhere.

18:13Wunmi Mosaku:So who's teaching you and has that felt like a spiritual kind of journey in a way? Or has it unraveled things about, because I just think the way language works does tell you a lot about a culture. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you had much time to learn much so far, but I'm sort of curious who's teaching you. I've been nearly six years now. Oh, my God.

18:35Chioma:I've learned a lot about my culture through my lessons with my teacher, Professor Olewale. What made you decide to learn? 2020. Right, yeah. You know, I had a real heartbreaking, like, awakening during the uprising and the racial reckoning we were facing that I had never actually had a conversation with my grandma. We lost her the year before. And just like three weeks before we got to Nigeria, me and my husband. And she was, we were meant to go get her blessing. And, you know, we were close. Like, I felt like I understood her spirit. I felt like I understood, and she understood my spirit. But I had never had an actual conversation with her.

19:34Chioma:Me neither.

19:34Wunmi Mosaku:Me and my grandmother. My grandmother didn't speak English.

19:36Chioma:No, my grandma didn't. So I had to rely on interpreters. And that depends on how bothered they can be to interpret word for word. The nuances of language. The nuance of the language, but also like her spirit. Like I could tell she's a funny woman. She loves telling stories. She loves doing impressions. I can tell those things about her. But, you know, sometimes like, you know, my mom's tired of interpreting. And like she's like, oh, she said this. She said this happened to da-da-da-da. Now I'm so glad I took a lot of recordings of my gran. So now I listen to them and I'm like, oh, I can hear the nuance of what she was saying.

20:16Chioma:I mean, Yoruba is a very, to me, it's very complicated. It's tonal, first of all. So, like, there's three tones. You say one thing one way, and it's three different words. Like, and I still can't tell. I can't tell the difference. And that's why my Yoruba is not great, because I'll be like, I want to drink my soup with a knife, because I'll say soup and knife are the same thing. You know, like, and so I am, they're spelt the same, but they have a different tone. So I'm not good at that. But I, if I write it, if I read it, I can decipher it. But when I speak it, people really struggle to decipher what I'm saying.

20:58Chioma:Because their brains are so intelligent. It's like, if you get the tone wrong, they're like, you're talking gobbledygook. Yeah. You know, so it's, I realize how poetic Yorobas are in the way they describe things. And that felt like a real, like, a feature of myself that I'm now unlocking, like, the poetry within language, poetry. Because it's there. It doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be so linear. When I said to my teacher, I said, I want my daughter to come to work. I want her to see me working. I said that literally verbatim, like, word for word like that. And he said, we would never say it like that.

21:42Chioma:We would say, we want her to come and see me at the mouth of work. And I said, would you? I just never, I would never have known that. The run through will be back in a moment.

22:04Wunmi Mosaku:Whenever I'm looking for things with eBay Authenticity Guarantee, it often ends up being sneakers. I'm not necessarily a sneakerhead, but there are specific sneakers that I may have like fallen in love with and have been discontinued. And it's really nice to find them on eBay. And so it'll be just like a pair of platform Converse loafers. It will be a pair of Vans white slippers with like a very specific low toe. And so it's great with eBay to just be like, this is a real thing. It's in the size that you want. It's in the style that you want. And it's real.

22:41Wunmi Mosaku:So how has your pregnancy been different this time than from your first? Because I think you know what to expect. Obviously, you've said your body gets into position a lot more quickly. Yeah. But like also your life is looking different. Now you have a child already. Trying to do this with a toddler. It's very different.

22:59Chioma:First of all, my first pregnancy was very difficult. Like I was very, very sick. I'm so sorry. I was sick until the day she arrived. And yeah, that was very difficult for me. but I was also filming and I was on my feet all day every day

23:14Wunmi Mosaku:what were you filming when with your first

23:16Chioma:passenger for ITV this one is like I'm on flights I just got in from LA yesterday and I go to New York tomorrow then back to LA on Saturday so that's exhausting time zones dealing with my daughter being just exhausted poor girl I keep hearing her saying my body hurts because I keep saying my body hurts and she's like mommy body hurt my body hurt she's like I'm feeling left out you're the only pregnant lady in town like my feet swell at like one o 'clock in the afternoon whereas that wasn't happening before and like my hips are like shifting so quickly just everything is different well you're glowing so that's one plus I haven't been as sick the only day I was sick was the day after of the nominations.

24:09Chioma:Okay. Do you know if you're having a boy or a girl? I do. You don't have to reveal. But yeah, so I just feel like I just, everything is, this feels easier in one respect because I don't have to worry about am I going to throw up like in this 40 minute thing. That was really tough. The throwing up was really hard. Yeah.

24:31Wunmi Mosaku:I mean, I love that you and your co-star, Hayley Seinfeld, revealed your baby bumps at the same time. Well, she had done it on Instagram before, but that was her first time out. Because there's loads of cute pictures with the both of you. When did you both know you were pregnant roughly at the same time?

24:48Chioma:Yes. So I, yes, we told each other like, wait, maybe, wait, November? Okay. Yeah, November. Wow, nice. Yeah, it was really nice. Yeah, we were all together. It was very sweet. Yeah, it's really lovely.

25:03Wunmi Mosaku:Yeah, it's, I mean, you wrote this wonderful post for Vogue, you know about the anti-pregnancy announcement yeah um what was it like doing that on the red carpet i mean it must have been so you have to be very intentional obviously you had this amazing

25:19Chioma:dress and it was yoruba inspired and that's yeah i just didn't want to be i didn't want to i wanted to acknowledge the moment of like this isn't what i would normally do like no one knew i was no one knew I had a baby until my baby was one years old. Right. I didn't talk about it on the press tour, you know, of Passenger and, like, Nigerians. I don't know about—I think Nigeria's on a whole, but definitely Yoruba don't talk about that stuff. No. And I understand why out of just protection and, like, being, you know, keeping it sacred and safe and making sure you don't invite unwanted attention, you know?

26:04Chioma:So it's different. I still struggle with it, but I just know that I couldn't hide it anymore. And also made it harder for me to really appreciate the moment that I'm in for myself and my career in this moment. Oscars, Golden Globes, BAFTAs, I want to be present. And if I'm divorcing my head and my body, And I'm not really welcoming the baby into this too. And it feels like you're kind of taking them for granted. They're here with you. Yeah. Yeah. So felt important to just be honest, but also really like vulnerable being like honest and in the public eye about it.

26:46Wunmi Mosaku:You know, it's such a personal thing to share with the world. Right. Yeah. But I felt like it was one of the kind of most heartwarming moments at the Globes. And you did it with such intention and having the dress have such meaning. I think you did it in such a lovely way to welcome the baby.

27:03Chioma:I felt like you were really welcoming the baby. Yeah, it felt important to do it like that. And I felt like it was important to write the piece because I didn't want to just be like, I'm pregnant and everything's easy breezy. You know, like, it's not like it's not. Pregnancy is really difficult. I find pregnancy very difficult. And also like the journey of pregnancy is not easy. And that's not something I'm, you know, especially with Annie, like people want to talk about child loss. And I'm like, that's not conversation. I don't even feel like that's a conversation that we can really have like just like in a five minute interview, you know, or, you know.

27:40Chioma:So it's like I don't really want to – I just want to acknowledge that it's much bigger than an interview piece or a pregnancy announcement or like it's – you know, people really are going through it. Like and people are scared, especially black women. Especially now. Yeah, you know, and so I just wanted to kind of really acknowledge it in its entirety, the beauty and the sacredness, but also like the reality of like medical racism and the vulnerability. And how uneasy getting pregnant, being pregnant, having a baby, like, and it's not the end. like the baby being delivered is it's not the end either you know yeah I mean I think you did it in

28:34Wunmi Mosaku:such a beautiful way and um I can only imagine how yeah how how much you know courage it sort of took to be like okay I'm going to really sort of sync my my private world and my public persona together in this one moment having been someone who'd never done that before how has that made you feel now how does it make you think about moments are you more excited now to sort of embrace it fully like I know that you've also got we can talk about your your new project going on I think kind of threads the needle of all this thing these things yeah I mean it feels if you

29:08Chioma:know the love and the prayers that's what felt really good was like it's not just a congratulations it was there was every everyone also said congratulations and prayers for a safe delivery and recovery. And that was like, that's the thing that like people miss out a lot of the time is a safe delivery and full and whole recovery. And so that was really, that was really beautiful. And I really felt, I felt that love and that comfort around me. And so in regards to ER day, the maternity and nursing line that I've been designing. It was, you know, it felt like, you know. Tell me about the name first.

29:52Chioma:I think it's such a beautiful name. Oh, thank you. Yeah, Iade means Mother Has Arrived.

29:56Wunmi Mosaku:Okay, because I knew there had to be meaning. I love that all kind of Yoruba names have such beautiful meanings.

30:02Chioma:Yeah, it means Mother Has Arrived. And I really, I just felt really forgotten about as a mom. I felt like my clothes, like, I mean, in L.A., it's nearly impossible to find a restaurant that has a baby changing station.

30:20Wunmi Mosaku:They're not very baby friendly, are they? They're not.

30:22Chioma:I think it's like they want you to kind of bounce back, get the baby to the nanny or daycare or whatever, and then go live your life like you used to. And it's all very compartmentalized. and I'm like that's not that's not the reality I don't want it to be my reality I want my baby with me where I can like I want to I want to carry my baby on my back to a restaurant be able to feed comfortably and and then change them comfortably like I don't I'm not I'm not doing it on the floor of a bathroom you know um so it was very much like about including my baby in my life and so i um actually all started at with sinners to be honest i i showed up to uh the read through in what i had been wearing is like my best dressed nursing clothes and you know miss ruth was like hey tomorrow do you think you could wear like you know like a um like a bra with support do you think you could like wear like and I was like my goodness I have not I have looked like a slob for 19 months that's how I felt like I was like oh I've really felt like I've looked

31:44Wunmi Mosaku:when you say Miss Ruth you mean Miss Ruth Carter yeah like I was like wow I haven't worn

31:50Chioma:underwire I haven't you know even that like that's something that they just don't really have in America is underwire nursing bras so I had to get mine imported from the UK no I'm not joking that that's how we had to rig nursing bras that we got from the UK in order for me to pump and nurse on set and have support everything's all this stretchy so wait you were nursing on set oh yeah wow yeah yeah yeah on the set of sinners seven months oh gosh okay so this is like full this is full circle in a way yeah this is full circle so this was like and the first you know finally like wearing like I was like when I put when I put on a proper bra again I was like I want to wear my clothes I want to wear the clothes that look like me instead of all these nursing t-shirts and they're so ugly and they're so ugly it's offensive and then like if the baby spits up on you or you leak a little bit you look like an idiot for the rest of the day and I thought I don't want this.

32:54Chioma:Anyway, my mom had bought me some stuff from Nigeria and I got them kind of tailored in so that I could, like I got made a few of them crop tops instead of just regular tops so I could pull them up to feed. And my daughter threw up all over me at story time and no one could tell and I thought why do we wear all these plain ugly stretchy clothes that just cling to our bodies in such ugly ways and then actually pattern and color is the perfect camouflage for a messy baby it's perfect so then I ended up basically living in three outfits that I was like I look cute in and she can throw up on me and it's great so then and then so then I started designing um I was like to um Heidi Miss Ruth's like number one um seamstress that I have this idea um of how this could work do you think this would do you think this would work and she I described her this this um these openings and she was like I've never seen that done and you need to go get that

34:08Wunmi Mosaku:patented so i did so i so i designed it all came out of a neat it all came out of it also came out

34:17Chioma:of sinners really yeah it really did it really did wow and i so i the dresses i wore for comic con 2024 those were both my first designs and it was a perfect like experiment so i i you know i had this idea um i tried it it worked but i was like the if i just did something if i did if i put a seam right here, it'd be perfect. And that's, and you know, I've had my, my designs patented and, and they work. And now I'm testing out the maternity stuff as I go.

34:53Wunmi Mosaku:The run through will be back in a moment.

35:01Wunmi Mosaku:Sometimes people ask me which search terms I use whenever I'm on eBay. So I search a lot of deadstock. That's a term that I throw in there a lot. Deadstock means that no one's ever worn it before, but it is like an archival piece or it's a vintage piece. And so that's a great thing to find on eBay. There's a ton of deadstock vintage. And it's just kind of like comforting to know that like you're the first person taking this like piece on its maiden voyage, even if it's 50 years old. eBay offers this departure from the everyday that ends up feeling totally you.

35:40Wunmi Mosaku:Do you know what you're going to wear to the Oscars yet? You don't have to reveal, but you can give us a hint. Are you watching the shows? Are you, what's your inspiration? Like, what are you thinking?

35:47Chioma:Oh, I don't see it. I'm so bad at this. Like, Shamila's like, send me some inspiration. I was like, from where? What shows are you talking about? No, seriously, what shows? The guitar shows. Oh, no, I haven't. It's okay, don't worry. I haven't been watching. You've been busy. You've got awards season. It's okay. It's a lot. Literally, every time I have a break, my eyes are shut and my feet are up. that's it but yes maybe i need to do that you are literally superwoman i don't believe you're doing

36:13Wunmi Mosaku:this is it is a lot yeah it's a lot but i feel like that's how life is right just kind of all

36:17Chioma:happens yeah and then my my team is like you know when when doing award season while pregnant is like running a marathon and heels and i can't i can't tell you how true that is because these leg cramps i've been getting have been wild um and they're just purely because i'm pregnant and then always on a flight um so yeah i i don't know what i'm wearing i the conversation starts this i mean i know who i'm wearing okay but i don't know what i'm wearing yet like clues to that

36:48Wunmi Mosaku:not sure if i'm allowed to okay okay a big designer or a kind of like independent a big designer oh okay okay i can't wait i cannot wait i cannot cannot wait well but before we go because i know i feel like we could talk for another hour i have to talk to you about your next project so tell us about your next project because I know you have a is it Mango the next project?

37:11Chioma:Oh yeah Mango so I signed on to exec produce this short film called Mango and it's about fibroids and so my friend Jo Neola has written this beautiful script that's really eye-opening and powerful and so I just said I would join and support in any way I could Oh that's so cool Yeah Yeah, yeah. And it's really well written, really well shot. It's a kind of body horror. But again, just kind of mimics. In a completely different context. Yeah, but it really does kind of highlight the horrors of a medical system that doesn't truly understand or listen to women, black women's pain. So yeah, I'm really, really proud to be a part of that.

38:00Chioma:and then I've got Idris Elba's movie This Is How It Goes again like another that one was a very eye-opening one for me because after playing Annie I felt like really grounded and I was like it's amazing I want to be Annie I want to grow up and be Annie do you know what I mean and then I played this and then I get this other character and I'm like oh I have all this judgment and I was like wow I have a lot of judgment and again it feels like therapy whenever you're kind of challenged with a character that makes you look at yourself and how you look at the world and how you judge people so that was interesting again because she was kind this character's a little opposite from annie wow oh my god yeah yeah and then there's a social network which i don't know when that's coming out either that's coming how did you do

38:52Wunmi Mosaku:this

38:54Chioma:I'm pregnant I don't know on the second baby guys on the second baby I don't know how I feel like women are incredible yeah we really are the capacity we can we can hold yeah it's quite it's quite extraordinary

39:10Wunmi Mosaku:I'm sure you surprise yourself every day with it because you I don't I mean did you plan it like this or did this no no no no probably not

39:19Chioma:no no no it's like Like, you know, last year was quiet. Last year was very quiet for me. That would have been a good year to do it. Do you know what I mean? And then everything comes right at the end. You're like, wow, I really, I had January through September.

39:37Chioma:But, yeah, it's been a welcome challenge, though, because I've really enjoyed the sets I've been on. Oh, I can't wait for social networks.

39:44Wunmi Mosaku:It's going to be huge.

39:45Chioma:Yeah, it was great. It was really fun. So, yeah, yeah, it's good. There's a lot going on now.

39:53Wunmi Mosaku:I'm just so happy to have had you on the show. It's such a joy. We've been talking about this for a while and very, very excited to meet you and everything. Thank you. It's really great. So nice to meet you. You too. Yay.

40:12Wunmi Mosaku:That's it for the show. See you later.

40:18Chioma:The Run-Through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, Alex John Burns, and Catherine Millsop. It's engineered by Pran Bandy. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman.

40:32Wunmi Mosaku:My first job in New York City was as a trend forecaster. I do trend forecasting still, and eBay is a part of that because I'll search for things that I'm seeing around, and it will end up directing me in places that I could have never anticipated. And one of the trends that I'm seeing these days is crafting things that are made by hand. And so playing with clothes and accessories to create something kind of distinctive for your wardrobe is a great way of doing it. And getting supplies off of eBay is my favorite thing for it. I'll get like maybe a pair of slippers that I'm wearing right now and then cut them in a specific way.

41:07Wunmi Mosaku:And then they're totally my own. And I feel like it's a great resource to create your own trends because then you can both feel like you're bringing something back to life. You're already like pulling it out of the eBay archives. And then you're also adjusting it so that it really expresses your own style, which is something that, you know, people really want right now whenever they are feeling like so algorithmic about the style that's being pushed to them. That doesn't have to be perfect. Things can have rough edges and that sometimes makes them feel more special. From PRX.