Zoë Kravitz on Her British Vogue Cover, Being A “Cool Girl”, and Wearing Braids on the Red Carpet

0:05This is The Run Through. I'm Chioma Nnadi and today I am so, so thrilled to be joined in the studio by two of my favourite contributors, Contributing Beauty Editor Tish Weinstock and Contributing Fashion Director Julia Sargema. Hi! Hi! I love our mouthy titles. I know. I was like, I literally was tripping over myself to get the words out. I forgot what my title was, actually. It's like, what do I do? I have to say, you also just wrote the cover story, and I want to reveal it to you. Yes. The cover right now. I think Julia has it right there. Oh, my God, she's stunning. Doesn't she? Isn't she? Yeah, it's really unfair.

0:48Isn't it? It's really unfair. Wow. She's gorgeous. We're basically taping this when she... Great styling. I know. Thank you very much. I haven't read the words, but I'm sure they're going to be great. Completely forgotten what I've written. But she looks great, so that's all that matters. Yay. So, yeah, we're taping this on Wednesday evening here in London. So tomorrow morning the world is going to see this. So you're getting a very sneak preview. So Zoe Kravitz is officially our July cover star. And I had the chance to speak to her, and she loved working on the story with both of you. and I this was a bit of a dream team uh cast for the for the cover story because obviously loved julian i've worked with her many times and adored tess but also tish but also god it's been a long day it's been a long day it has been adored tish um and i know you've been friends for so long and i was really i was really thrilled to find out this was the first time that you've worked together on a story even though you've known each other for for years and years and years since the id days since the id days i think i delivered julia's mail at one point yeah um she was very nice i think you were like thanks i was like you're welcome phew did i maybe i made you cup of tea i don't know i just remember like the editor at the time just saying how you how great you were and all of your stuff got like the most amount of hits and she was so impressed i was a bit of a sort of a traffic elf um but yeah this was the first tour i was i was met i was gonna come and um visit you on set while you were doing this shoot in paris but we realized it was a bit far away yeah it was during fashion week wasn't it and making a plan during fashion week outside of like your rigorous schedule is always a recipe for disaster um so it was a nightmare so i didn't make it to set um would have loved to but it was great great vibes yeah it was so yeah so was the fitting as well that was great vibes i knew it was going to be good because the fitting was like such good vibes as well so where is she on a roof somewhere yeah julia can give perfect mysterious room yeah yeah she is outside of paris but i was saying like i quite like how you can't really tell where we are doesn't scream paris no it's not screaming it's like continental yeah it is giving you it's giving like summer it's giving europe yeah european summer it's not No, not at all.

3:37The LA light's different. I was in New York, so the interview was a two-parter. The first part, and I speak about this in the story. Were you nervous first off? Well, yes, because the first part was bowling. Oh God, are you any good? No, obviously not. I don't know my left or my right. No one's going to bowl it. What did you wear? I can't remember. I'm so curious. I know what I like. I'd like to know, actually. Like something really unsuitable, obviously. I know, I know. I was wearing a look at it because it was kind of hot. So I wore like a 30s, 90. Of course you did. And some like Chloe biker boots.

4:21I was like, oh, these are sturdy. Yeah, in case the bowling ball falls on your foot or something. Yeah, in case that happens. And I had lunch with my friend in Williamsburg because we were meeting at The Gutter in Williamsburg, which is like a very trendy place. And I actually, when I was writing the story, I had to text Alexa Chung to be like, quick question, is The Gutter sort of, does it count as Indie Sleaze? Because in my mind, it was sort of felt like Indie Sleaze. And she corrected me and said, no, it was not Indie Sleaze. Oh, okay. I love that she's, yeah. And if she would know. But yeah, so then in Wall Street, Zoe, I was nervous.

5:02I get ID'd which is like reliving trauma of being a teenager when you're getting ID'd at a club using fake ID. And yeah I don't have ID and they're like you can't be in this establishment. Anyway so then we just looked at her and I was like oh god. I was like should we go shopping? She was like yeah. So we walked through the park. It was a really forced artificial situation. It wasn't we were like oh let's like shop today. it was like shopping question mark I don't know because does Vogue love an activity like what is why is it that we do this sort of like activity day and then interview it's sort of to like break the ice break the ice yeah it's an icebreaker it's the Vogue way my god you think you I had to I've done roller skating on the streets of Accra that's illegal I've done it that's kind of fab though to be honest yes with Michaela Cole I was like roller skating I would literally be like No, I'd be calling HR and be like, no, I'm not doing this.

6:04It's not for me. I don't like physical activities. No, neither do I. That involve coordination and aim. I did, for our sort of getting to know each other date, we then went to a cafe, five something, Five Leaves? Yeah, oh my gosh, it's an institution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been there since, I think, like 20 years. I mean, it was great. Love to know that Five Leaves is still going. Yes, it's still going. And I basically, I think I was still feeling a bit nervous and like slightly spooked by being ID'd. So I just spoke about myself the entire time, which I don't think is really breaking the ice.

6:46But I don't think that's what you're meant to do. It's meant to be a bit of a two-way thing. But I was like monologuing. That's my tactic always. Talking about like... Just nervous rambles. Yeah, nerves, rambling, sort of like complaining about my children and husband and like getting like botched tweakments. I mean, Zoe is famously private. Yes. And I think for me as someone who also interviews people, those are the hardest interviews to do because like I'm quite an open book. I like to talk, you know, and I end up talking about myself in the interview just because you sort of create a level of intimacy.

7:25um but she has quite kind of rightfully so has boundaries i think you handled it really well at the time i don't think we knew that she was as she were very happy for she's now engaged she did talk a little bit about um what it's like to navigate the paparazzi and what were your takeaways from yeah i think also there was an understanding going into it between the both of us that like i was not going to ask her anything she did not want to be asked um which i think you know obviously like someone's team might be like don't ask these questions and it's i guess up to the writer or the interviewer to be like i'm going to anyway but then it just creates this really awkward tension where then they just completely close up it's just not nice and it's like uh for me i didn't i'm not in the business of trying to like catch someone out like get a scoop i think in 2026 like i you know this isn't the daily mail no like no i don't know any other establishment.

8:39But, you know, it was about getting to know her and allowing the story that she wanted to be told to be told. So, but yeah, we spoke about, it was interesting, like I was expecting, like we just went on a walk through this park in Williamsburg, then we sat outside, we sat outside at, we had lunch at Dimes on the second, on the real interview day, and then we had love a dimes lunch yeah yeah yummy we need a dimes here can we I would love to have a dimes please guys I need a yeah there's no I love dimes yeah yummy food and we were sat outside at five leaves I was going to keep saying five guys but it's not very different quite different very different five and people were kind of maybe they were aware of her we had a very attentive waitress the people everyone in Dimes didn't bat an eyelid didn't not didn't care but like the waitress came over and was like oh hey I haven't seen you for ages but people like I've if I've I've definitely given what my Instagram was like this echo chamber for pictures of like Zoe Kravitz and Harry Styles walking down the street getting a coffee wearing matching they weren't ever matching outfits but I think everyone likes to talk about their couple style mirroring their immaculate style yeah they're just both very stylish people and they look good together and they're hot yeah they're individually very stylish yeah I don't think they like match she has like the best style she's got the best style I know like what they look good together and anyway so like I was expecting to be swarmed but it was really chill and I was like is this kind of weird for you like is this a rare day like because I have seen a lot of pictures of you recently and she was like Like, it depends where you are.

10:36And, you know, outside my house, they're definitely paparazzi. I'm curious because she trusted you. By the time I got to the shoot, it was all, I mean, Julie had worked her magic. She was like, they were like practically best friends. And I wonder what's the process of working with someone? Because obviously you style celebrities, models, you know, your work runs a gamut when it comes to editorial. yeah what is the process like when you're styling someone who has such impeccable personal style and has this quite cool exterior and I was intimidated even just to meet her because I just think of her as like I know because she's so cool how do you impress the coolest girl I don't know honestly like I think even when we were talking about like the fashion and everything there was really a sense that we just wanted her to stay that it feels like herself like feels like she would wear the clothes and I think that's what I try and do when I'm working with someone who already has like amazing style is to not try to change them too much for this story and it was more like making her feel like comfortable her best self like a little bit different but not too far away from something that she would maybe wear um what were the looks that she was like that she really loved what was the fitting process like and were there things that you were surprised yeah so we prepped quite a few looks and we ended up I thought we'd maybe try like I don't know 10 or something and I think she came in for the fitting and we had like an hour and a half and we tried like 20 looks in an hour and a half so yeah we like got through a lot which was also great because then at the end we went through the rack and we were like you know I was like if there's anything here that you're not feeling just tell me because we have so many good options so that also I kind of like to make it collaborative when I'm working with talent because I want them to feel like good and you can tell that from the pictures I mean I think you and michael jansen who shot it really worked together to create this environment where she by the time i got there she was like at home like complete like taking pictures of the screen and like yeah she's just seen this was side of her that i wasn't expecting to meet immediately yeah totally i think like i think it was also because that collaborative thing and also even with the hair and the makeup you know kept it very true to how she you know how she looks like she always looks flawless so that side of things was like not really a concern um but yeah I think it's just like allowing them to feel like confident is really important when I'm working with talent so that's kind of what I was trying to do with this story um but I love like the sporty touch and you know like there's a there's a kind of mix of different like characters in there which I do like as well um yeah I feel like she would probably wear some of those looks IRL as well totally I think so too I think so too I think she I think she's taking notes I personally am always taking notes from you guys because I think you're two of the most stylish women I know in London on the planet and um I love it when you get together because you have complementary but different styles that's what i was saying when you show up like i love i think you went to an absolutely both went to an absolutely fabulous wedding you're both you know two of the best rest people there like what what are you like like is it fun getting would you get ready together like what is the we will exchange notes yeah definitely we were like talking before i was like also because it was like it was it was it was it was a friend of mine georgie right who was marrying her longtime boyfriend charles forte um and and she has this amazing amazing bag brand with adjuar called the veil yeah oh my god everybody has those yeah everyone yeah if you're listening by a bag from the veil um we're all really excited about the brand but also very excited about Georgie's wedding, which was really fun.

15:05Basically, there was a few back and forth conversations because it was in Sicily, but it was cold. Yeah, so it was tricky. How did you navigate that? It was bad weather. I was like, I'm bringing a fur. I can't be cold. Let the record show that there was no event that the furs don't come out for you. No, there isn't. Because I cannot be cold. I don't care. I'm not one of those girls that's like, I'll just be like half naked and it's fine. no I can't be cold I'm like comfort and warmth over style yeah no no no well you managed to fit it all together because you I don't mean yeah girl the coats no that whole thing stressed me out quite a lot yeah I actually don't weddings stress me out really yeah what do you think so what are your rules for like a summer wedding like are there do you repeat don't go yeah don't go don't go um No, no repeating looks.

16:01Really? Okay. I wouldn't repeat looks. What do you mean? As in like what? Some people have their go-to wedding guest outfit. No. I mean, like I can wear a dress that maybe I've done for a wedding a year ago. Oh, yeah, but not that same season. Oh, yeah. Not one look twice in one season, wedding season. Okay. So we're going to wrap up with our wellness. Right. With our wellness. I want to know what you're trying. I know that you've done your work. Breath work is your thing at the moment. I mean, it's been your thing. Is there anything you want to try that's new that you're curious about? I'm really into red light.

16:38Like, I love doing a red light bed. Oh, I have a recommendation for you, a new place. Yes, I love that. I will send you the place. It's a really good one. Okay, great. And there's a few, like, sort of, like, massage, reiki. oh yeah you have to go to vicky yeah dream of yeah and there's alexa recommended her alexa chung and there's like a few that i want to try um i will do that with you i saw you were doing hydrogen yeah hydrogen i did i did that yeah i did love it oh yeah hyperbaric i love that there's a place where you can do them all in one oh that's what we want we want just like time what's quite good about the hyperbaric is that it traps me in there yeah you so then i have to do my admin in i went in with my friend jazzy the other day um and she we were in the two men pod um which was really fun it was like the irony of like doing a wellness i went on a date in one of those yeah how was that i think it was quite good because at least like if you don't like them at least you're getting something healthy out of them yeah it's a win like it's a win situation You've stuck with them for at least half an hour.

17:54You can't get out of them. You can't just be like... Yeah, but I feel like it wasn't like a stranger. Okay. Like I'd met them. Yeah, I wouldn't go to the floor. It's not a first date. It wasn't a first date, but I think it's quite a good date. No, it is. Because at least it's healthy. Well, there's the thing. When I was in there with Jazzy... What happened to cocktails? No, cocktails is good. I know it's quite mad. It's quite like, hi, I'm like a tech girl. But the thing is, it makes you the chai tech brat, bro. It's good. It's good. Guys, we've had such a fun, fab conversation. I feel like there is a two-parter in this.

18:30We need to regroup.

18:35Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back with Zoe Kravitz herself.

18:47This week on Critics at Large, we're talking about Steven Spielberg and his blockbusters, Jaws. Jurassic Park. Of course, E.T. They're all classics for a reason. Does his latest, Disclosure Day, come close to those heights? There's a lot riding for the movie business on this question, and then for the culture sense of itself is large? Are movies still important? Are people going to the cinema still a thing? Are the youth like we were? All of those questions, those big cultural questions are coming up through Disclosure Day. Join me, Vincent Cunningham, and my co-hosts on Critics at Large. New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

19:37Hi, how are you? Hello. I'm so thrilled and excited that we're doing the podcast. Thank you so much. I mean, it was such a wonderful cover. I can't wait for the world to see it. It was wonderful to be able to see you on set and go through the edit with you. And I know Julia had the best time and Michael was so thrilled too. So thank you. No, the vibe was so good. It was such an enjoyable shoot, you know. So thank you. It really comes through in the pictures. Do you have a favorite look? Oh, that's a good question. They're all so fun. Like I really liked the shorts, you know, with the heels. I really loved that crazy kind of crystal skirt that I thought was so cool.

20:26And oh, and there was like that white fluffy. Oh, that was great. I love that look. That was so great too. Yeah. I feel like your style is flawless. So to hear you say that you enjoyed every look is a big compliment to us because we were really excited to feature you. I wonder what you're feeling for at the moment, what your approach to summer style is and what are you into at the moment? Where do you like to shop or how do you like to shop? I love shopping IRL, which is something that people do less and less now, you know? Yeah, that's not how people shop these days. I know and I'm one of them sometimes but it's just it's so I really do love walking around whether it's by yourself or with a friend and finding something new I love I mean I love flea markets I grew up going to flea markets since I was very little because my both my parents but my mom specifically was really really into them um so there's just something about finding a treasure you know which you can still do when you're searching online if you're looking for something and there's all these great vintage sites now and stuff like that but I just think it's such a fun Yeah, fun activity.

21:30So you're a vintage shopper? Yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of vintage stuff, you know. I mean, obviously there are brands that I love. You know, I wear a lot of Saint Laurent, obviously, and, you know, think their stuff is amazing. And, you know, big fan of the row as well. But I think it's all about mixing things together. I think there's a nice juxtaposition that happens when you, you know, wear something, you know, that's designer with a scrappy old T-shirt. or, you know, something a little bit more unique. So I think it's about, yeah, finding that combination. And is there anything on your shopping list right now that you're, are you hunting for everything?

22:08For me now, everything, the summer's here, the weather is suddenly like, it's like, who am I going to be this summer? And what do I want to wear? Totally, exactly. I feel like whenever I'm either packing to go a place or when the seasons change, I have like a full identity crisis. and it's fun you kind of do have to decide you know or you get to explore who you want to who you want to be you know like I remember a couple years ago I you know it was like super hot in New York and so you could really you know you want to wear as little as possible and then I had a moment where I was like but I want to wear pants I don't want to wear I don't want like my legs out all the time and you have to find like the right light linen pant or something It's not easy.

22:51I know. You know, when I was younger, I used to walk around like just, it's nothing on. Find that middle ground now. So I'm still, I mean, it's because the seasons have just changed. I think I'm still figuring it out. But I've been really enjoying this middle period because there's obviously that moment where you can wear your light jackets. That kind of get like a moment in between seasons, you know, and layering and things like that. Or, you know, when you get to wear a skirt with a light jacket. So that's also been a really nice moment fashion-wise. Yeah, I love the way. I think you're so good at wearing like a longer length kind of sinuous skirt with something a bit more masculine, like a more kind of.

23:30I always love those combinations on you. I know you're in Amsterdam now. Have you checked out any of the, I was there recently. They have some okay vintage stores. Have you had a chance to do any of that? I haven't. I've only been here for a couple of days and the weather did just, it was pretty cold the first week we were here. so I feel like now it's gotten warmer and I'll do a lot more kind of walking around and exploring but yeah I'm sure they have great vintage here I mean all I feel like Europe just has incredible vintage we we certainly do we certainly do though I have to say Los Angeles is is not far behind that's true that's that's true one of the great things about LA I absolutely loved your the Saint Laurent lace look that you wore it was absolutely stunning and all of the elements of your look you would like one of my absolute best dress I know you have such a close relationship with Anthony and the Met feels like such a kind of watched event dressing for that red carpet I think the stakes are somewhat higher but you looked absolutely comfortable and totally yourself in this look tell me about where the starting point was for that I mean it was such an easy thing to do which was so nice because it was you know it was what it was the one of the looks from his last show.

24:44And we often do custom things. And I think for an event that size, usually that would be the route, you know, we would take just because it's you want to make something specific for that moment. But when I went to that show and saw those dresses, I was just I was blown away. I thought they were so, so beautiful. And, you know, I think the themes are always kind of abstract. And I think that's always a fun thing to play with. So it was it was easy. I tried on the dress. There was a series of view and it was just pretty easy just because Anthony is so great, which I'm very lucky to work with him.

25:21Yeah. Tell us about your friendship with him and what it's been like working with him over the years. You've developed a real language together. I mean, I genuinely think that he's, I think he's a genius. I think he's incredible. and we've worked together for over almost 10 years now and I've really got to witness him you know grow as an artist and become more and more confident in his choices and he's just you know I think we live in a world where a lot of people artists whether it's you know clothing designers musicians actors whatever there's a lot of pressure to just make people look you know it's like the fashion equivalent of clickbait, right?

26:03Like just look over here and that's kind of like where it ends. And I think that can often be a mistake because it's just about being loud. It's just about getting noticed. Anthony is, his focus is always on the art, on, you know, on, you know, representing the house and the artistry and telling a story. And he doesn't need the attention. It's not about getting attention and it's about the detail and the love of it. And again, the artistry, which I think he's just incredible. So, you know, I'm always impressed and blown away by, you know, the way he is able to grow and change without, without departing too far from what the brand is, you know, he's just consistent and that goes a long way and he understands the importance of restraint which I think is in all artistry again you know whether you're painting or fashion makeup hair I think you know there's there can be a desire to leave a mark to let people know that you were there it just it's just as important what you choose not to do is what you choose to do as an artist I think and he's great at that.

27:21I can't believe you've been to 11 Mets Zoe I know I saw that the other day and I was like oh my god come on there's got to be like okay you've got to give me your like top three moments run-ins performances dresses like let's have the highlights there's been some good times at the Met I mean it's changed so much I mean when I first went when was your first one? 2009 And nine or something. It's quite different back then, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was pre-Instagram for sure. And so it was really this kind of, this very New York. It was because, you know, I think the internet has made it this like globally, you know, watched thing.

28:06But it was this very New York event. And the pressure was not the same. The whole world wasn't watching. You know, it was just, it just felt like this one really beautiful event. for a great cause and really a good party, you know. And I met some of my, you know, idols there. There's a picture somewhere of me talking to George Clooney, which is one of my favorite. Because I'm like, whatever I'm saying, I'm making some kind of a joke and I'm making a very intense expression with my face, which I think is funny. I'm sure you can find it easily. But, you know, of course, meeting people like that, you know, being in a room full of, you know, actors and musicians who you grew up watching and um you know seeing people like Cher perform and um you know there's Stevie Nicks like I mean legends I mean absolutely incredible um and then of course there was the infamous bathroom which is really no longer but there was a point in time and that was really it was a real vibe man it felt I would always describe it it was felt like it felt like high school it felt like high school in the way we're like everyone wasn't crammed into the girls bathroom everyone stared talking shit smoking and it was just like it had I mean it did have like this I know it wasn't the 90s but it had like this rowdiness of the 90s you know and yeah it was it was a fun time but it's always such a beautiful event you know Anna really does put so much into it you know she cares a lot and yeah it's always a really special night it's it's it's a nice thing to to be invited to I appreciate it I get to go we're going to take a quick break

29:53hi this is bella freud each week on fashion neurosis i interview highly creative people in the world of fashion film art sport literature and music the format of the show is that my guest lies on the couch and I sit in a chair like an analyst. I know. I ask questions, quite simple things that revolve around how we reveal or hide things through what we wear, how we do or don't draw attention to ourselves. Find Fashion Neurosis on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

30:39your glam team everyone is obsessed with them i'm particularly obsessed with your hairstylist nikki helms who's incredible shout out to nikki now i'm obsessed with her as well and your makeup artist nina park i mean you have an incredible team and i think people underestimate speaking of restraint what that looks like in in glam because i think when you're wearing something so exquisite the glam can really make or break yeah like personally like nikki is like a joy in a little cup. She's just so fab and fun. And so tell me a bit about how you work together, what the process is like. I imagine now that you've known each other for so long that you've got a shorthand too.

31:22Oh, yeah. I feel very lucky to have them. Not only are they exquisite artists, but they're just wonderful human beings and really, really good friends. And we've been through a lot together and high pressure moments, moments of feeling insecure, moments, you know, everything they really you know we really have each other's back and also watching them grow as artists watching the world recognize them and how wonderful they are because we met you know kind of off chance I met Nikki at a W shoot like in maybe 2008 or 9 or something well I met Nina I might have been like 2014 or 15 or something like that and free her being the phenomenon that she is now, you know, she just, but I remember her doing both of them, you know, like someone does your hair and makeup.

32:11And I would, I always would go into the bathroom and fix it myself and but if that's around and do the thing. And then you meet someone where you're like, oh, you get it. You like see me and you get it. And you're not making me look like this weird version of myself that's not me, you know? And that's, I think the real skill is that they really both kind of tune into who they're working with and they don't try and change them or make everyone look the same or put their mark on them. They enhance, you know, who the person is, the essence of the person. And again, they don't need anyone to know that they were there.

32:47You know, I think sometimes someone wants to put a crazy eye on you so that they know that like, I was here. It's like, no, you know, I actually don't want anyone to know. I don't want it to look like I have makeup ball in the world. You know, Beyonce, I woke up like this. I genuinely want to look like that. You know, they're incredible. We get along so well. We have so much fun doing it. You know, it's always nice. Sometimes you're working a lot and you're tired, but then you see your girls and it's like amazing, you know. So yeah, I'm obsessed with both of them. I think they're incredible. I mean, I have to say, I think like you've got the most iconic braids, but I will say that I feel like when you started wearing braids on the red carpet it wasn't actually kind of that often seen um do you recall kind of what it was like to maybe wear them on the red carpet for the first time and what the because I you know I know that black hair is so political and people have so many opinions can you cast your mind back to a bit like that why it felt right for you and why you continue to wear like such a beautiful style yeah I mean I've always I struggled with my hair a lot Growing up, as, you know, many Black girls do, you know, for the obvious reasons, you know, it's not something we see a lot.

33:58And, you know, at least when I was a kid, even more, you don't see it a lot in mainstream fashion. You know, it was people thought you look, you know, nappy or dirty and they want to touch it and all of that. And then I noticed also, you know, when I started auditioning for things, I would often, you know, if my hair was natural, people had a really hard time imagining me as something else it's always like oh we want like a girl next door I'm like what does that mean you know what I mean and I noticed if I would straighten my hair or you know how to wear weave like people you know I would I got a bigger response from casting directors and things like that and it made me more quote-unquote versatile style um and then you know I just I got so tired of fighting with my hair you know it's like it's exhausting it's exhausting it's exhausting you know like wake up in the morning and like always being afraid like sticking down a certain way and all the chemicals and you know I personally with weaves like you know I want I don't like not being able to touch my scalp and it's hot and it's uncomfortable and it's like so I really just got to a breaking point where I really just felt like I don't want to live this way anymore.

35:09It's not who I am. And so I tried the braids and I remember, I think I did it for a film and then felt so liberated by it. And after that, I, you know, I was doing it in my normal life, my private life. And then I remember also like, you know, being asked to do a shoot and they'd always ask me to change my hair, take braids out. And I was like, you know, A, how long this takes. Oh my goodness. You know, and also, you know, like this is my hair. You wouldn't ask someone that had straight blonde hair to shave their head for a photo shoot, you know. But then, of course, you know, it took me a while to feel comfortable saying that to people, too, you know, and being on a movie set.

35:54And there would be no people of color working in the hair and makeup trailer and having to ask for someone that can do black hair and that being a controversial thing to ask for at one point, you know. And so, and then feeling the pressure. Okay, I'm going to a red carpet event. I'm wearing a gown. I should take my hair out and slig it back. That's why I look nice and clean. You know what I mean? And so it's been a real journey emotionally. You know, now also you see all kinds of people, you know, rocking the braids. It's, you know, so that's interesting. But yeah, it's been a journey and I'm really happy with where I've landed.

36:29And I think I'm in a place of self-love with my hair, which is also feels so nice and liberating. It feels so good, especially, I mean, you just look like so comfortable in your skin. It's wonderful to see. Thank you. Yeah. And now it's, I think it's, it's wonderful to see how young girls trying to figure out the secrets to your braids and what you do online and I think that wasn't perhaps so present even like you said even like 10 years ago I'm glad to see that that's switching and we're um we're seeing this shift I'm wondering did you learn any beauty lessons from your mom is that is that something that you guys would talk about yeah definitely I mean she always she was she was her main focus was really about like maintaining she said she said to me you know ever since we were baby, I made a promise that I would keep you soft.

37:20So she would always teach me as a little girl, you know, you get out of the shower, you put your coconut oil on or your moisturizer on, you know, you take the oil, you put it on your curls and, you know, twist them around and like really just little things like that just to kind of, yeah, keep everything soft. And like, you know, we put so much stress on our hair, we sleep on it, we brush it, product in it, you know, So just making sure, honestly, both for skin and hair, especially our kind of hair that we're hydrating it, giving it nourishment. I've read so many articles and I feel like you're described as the as the cool girl quite a lot.

37:55And I wonder what your relationship is to that term. Is it something that you can relate to? I mean, or does it feel I don't know. How does it feel for you? Because you are for a lot of people that eternal cool girl. I think it's funny because I always felt very on the outside. I felt very, I was, you know, like I was like a theater nerd and, you know, it was always kind of awkward and a little weird, like, you know, which I now, which I now love about myself, you know. it's funny and I don't really know what the word cool even means anymore. I kind of throw these words out like cool and iconic and I'm like, what are we talking about?

38:42But it's funny. I think in some ways it's a compliment because, you know, maybe it just means that I seem relaxed and kind of comfortable in my own skin. I think there's also a version where people think I'm like maybe standoffish or something. People think that, you know, a lot of people will tell me after we get to know each other that I seem intimidating or standoffish or, you know, like maybe I'm a bitch or something, which I think is funny because it's, I mean, I don't think that's who I am. But, you know, it's funny. I guess people are also getting this off of glimpse, like pictures and glimpses and things.