Episode 633: Maj. Tim Gribble

0:09Rich Ryerson: Welcome to The Running Public with Bracken Crocker and Kirk DeWint.

0:13Tim Gribble: Whether you are a brand new runner or you already have a great mustache,

0:16Rich Ryerson: we're here to help you increase your running knowledge and present it at a practical level. This is The Running Public.

0:30Rich Ryerson: When you're ready to take your training or racing to the next level, go to the running public.com. We have both monthly subscription training plans,$19.99 a month. And Bracken and I both offer one-on-one customized coaching. Again, go to the running public.com and check out our offerings.

0:48Tim Gribble: Oh, Kirk's outnumbered today.

0:50Rich Ryerson: He sure is. It's unacceptable. Can either of you grow facial hair? I've seen a beard on you, Tim.

0:57Brae Fisher: Nope. Oh, yeah. Yeah, when I was on this last round of paternity leave, I was straight ZZ top.

1:04Rich Ryerson: You're not allowed to grow facial hair in your line of work, are you, Tim?

1:07Brae Fisher: I'm not, no. Unfortunately, neither job allows much outside of a very tightly groomed mustache, and I can't grow a consolidated mustache. I just get two little mustaches right there with a bald spot down the middle, so I just stick to the beard when on baby leave only.

1:24Rich Ryerson: Well, I don't think you have any more babies coming up, So looks like just a lot of skin I have to stare at today. This is gross.

1:32Brae Fisher: No, this is perfect. The Lord only made so many perfect heads and the rest he covered with hair. So.

1:37Tim Gribble: That's exactly right.

1:39Rich Ryerson: Have you ever said that sentence before, Bracken? Is that when you're going to hit the earmark? Yeah.

1:43Tim Gribble: And faces too. That's why I can't grow facial hair. So then I'm ugly as heck. Well, your words.

1:50Brae Fisher: I mean, between the three of us, you've had more time on real TV than we have. So, I mean, there's something good about your face, Kirk.

1:56Rich Ryerson: Don't know what that is.

1:58Brae Fisher: So you guys haven't met before? Nope. Not from afar, or not in person, rather. Only from afar.

2:05Tim Gribble: How far are we talking?

2:06Brae Fisher: Well, BK, I've been listening to your voice from the start, and I've heard you on a couple other platforms, watched all the old Spartan stuff. So me in Ohio and you in Wisconsin, whatever that distance actually is, is how far apart. I feel like I've known you guys forever, kind of like the first coaching call with Kirk. I mean, I was just the ultimate fan guy and felt like I've known him forever and he had no idea who I was or what I was talking about. So I get to relive that again right now with you. We never overlapped at a race? Maybe. I don't think so. In the OCR space, I spent more time on the Savage side than Spartan.

2:44Brae Fisher: And I don't think you did too much over there other than commentate maybe. So I doubt it. I ran probably five Savages in the day, maybe more. Okay.

2:53Tim Gribble: Yeah.

2:54Brae Fisher: All right. Well, Savage, Ohio and the Chicagoland area, those were the two grounds that I did most of my damage at.

3:00Tim Gribble: Done Chicago a few times, Atlanta and Florida.

3:05Brae Fisher: Okay. Yeah, I never made it to Atlanta, and I'm hoping to catch Florida next year now that they've consolidated their schedule, if they're even around next year. There's some rumor mill being spun out that they might be on their way out the door.

3:18Rich Ryerson: You never know in this sport. Aren't they down to like three races this year or something? They had a schedule and then they pulled a bunch and now they're just consolidated down south again, if I'm not mistaken.

3:29Brae Fisher: Yeah, two in Florida, one in Atlanta.

3:31Rich Ryerson: Yeah. Bracken, guess what Tim did yesterday? I mean, I'm setting you up, but it was a workout on the track. What do you think he did yesterday? Did it come from you? No. Well, in a roundabout way, yes. Is that fair, Tim?

3:45Tim Gribble: It is. Four by four by 400. Well, there were 400s involved. There were 400s.

3:50Rich Ryerson: Tim turned 39. Is it today, Tim, is your birthday?

3:53Brae Fisher: Today is my actual birthday, August 4th, yeah.

3:56Tim Gribble: Happy birthday.

3:57Brae Fisher: Thank you.

3:58Rich Ryerson: You did the Ian Kasky and the Kirk DeWint? Yep. So Tim did it, but he did it the hard way, I would argue. So you did 39 by 400 meters to celebrate your birthday, which I am an advocate of. But you did an E2 mom, I believe. So every two minutes, you started again. So your rest was like nil. How much rest were you getting between these quarters?

4:23Brae Fisher: I was hitting them in about 90 seconds. They kind of ebb and flow a little bit, but I'd have about 30 seconds. Towards the end, it was maybe 20.

4:32Tim Gribble: Gross, huh? So the real way to do this, in my opinion, is you run your age in 400s and you rest your age in between. So each year you get one more second's rest. Do you just make that up? Yep. so he was close tim was closer to doing it correctly than you were kirk so he would have just had to run them all in 81 seconds easy breezy or change the the title of the workout

4:58Rich Ryerson: yeah how are you feeling after that effort yesterday uh you know a little bit a little

5:03Brae Fisher: bit of tightness in the groin i did my recovery run before this call uh just so i could sit for potentially an hour without being too wiggly um the body's feeling really good having done that ladder workout on Friday. And then that's all the 400s yesterday, just a lot of groin, um, strain after having spent the last year and a half in the ultra space, uh, more speed work than I've done. Uh, but really the body rebounded well. So grateful for that. Did you change directions? I did every lap. Oh, every lap, every lap. I set up a tent, um, and it kind of covers lanes one through four. So I'd, I'd come shooting in and then I'd turn myself around because after about six laps.

5:42Brae Fisher: I couldn't think straight or see straight. So I had my whole family was out there with me. We'd make it a big family thing and they kind of point me in the direction. And my wife, who was a math major in college, she's behind me somewhere with a baby right now. I had a hand clicker and I forgot to click after the fourth one. So she had to do the math to get me back on track. But yeah, definitely switching directions every lap.

6:05Tim Gribble: What do you mean you couldn't see straight after six laps?

6:08Brae Fisher: Well, one, I'm running straight into the sun. And the other the one the sun was behind me so it's not that i was going crazy or anything i mean conditions were pretty ideal started off around uh 76 degrees for the last i think maybe 15 we were around 86 degrees so it was really an ideal day last year it's not an ideal day it may be better than what it could have been but far from ideal that's fair uh that's fair i i did have an ice bandana that i got from the feed um little plug for them i highly recommend it for anybody fighting with the heat but I didn't think I needed it. Mid seventies, no big deal.

6:40Brae Fisher: Well, 15 laps and I wish I had it. Yeah.

6:43Rich Ryerson: We're at that point where mid seventies feels approachable in the summer. Like you see mid seventies, you don't even, you don't scoff at it. So Tim, I just looked, we have officially been working together for 29 months, I believe is what we're at. So I guess two and a half, almost two and a half years. We did a handful of consult calls, I believe before we officially started working together. So we've known each other, I'm going to say almost four years, probably console call, we'd chat things out and then eventually just decided to hire me. And I think we have a nice thing going, Tim. I'm biased, but I'd say it's going pretty well.

7:19Rich Ryerson: I would agree with that. Good. I was hoping you'd say that, but, uh, but I'm actually very much looking forward to this conversation for one, uh, one main reason. Do you have any idea what that reason is?

7:29Brae Fisher: I thought it was going to be to discuss, uh, male pattern baldness, but we already hit that.

7:34Rich Ryerson: So we can, I mean, if you guys want to have a therapy session, I'm here for you guys, but that's not what it is. Not therapy, but what people do need is a good tutorial.

7:45Tim Gribble: I watched a YouTube video the first time I shaved my head, Kirk, and I feel like there needs to be more good instructional videos out there for us.

7:52Brae Fisher: You know, it's funny you mentioned that the first time I shaved my head, I was actually in Doha, Qatar, and the Air Force had just lifted their no bicking policy because it was previously aligned with extremist groups. So I was deployed at the time and I shaved it and I left a massive triangle of hair on the back of my head. And an Australian guy who was probably 25 years older than me told me in the bathroom that he'd finish it for me and he pulled out a knife. He was joking, of course, but I should have watched a YouTube video. He was the only one that told me I had a massive triangle of hair on the back of my head.

8:23Rich Ryerson: Do you guys deal with, I have a client in the gym and in gym client, Reese. Shout out Reese who doesn't listen to this podcast, but he finally decided he's lost the fight with his hair. like this recent month and he walked in bald the other day and it was like it was it rattled me right like dude looks different but now twice he went the bick route and he's nicked like a mole on his head or something and then both times it's gotten infected and so he feels like he he cannot his doctor said like you can't be bicking your head anymore and he has some issue he keeps getting infections and these little nicks do you guys have any uh you guys have any recommendations for reese And then let's get to the point here.

9:01Rich Ryerson: But any thoughts?

9:04Brae Fisher: I'd probably say stop nicking that mole. I mean, if you do it once, that's all right. You don't know, but you do it a second time. It seems like he's failing to learn. They have fairly good cordless buzzers now that are designed for this.

9:17Tim Gribble: I have one from Baby Bliss that I like, but I don't like doing my whole head with it. Parts of it get irritated. People don't know. The head's not just all one skin type. It changes throughout. So shave everything except that mole area and then you just buzz that little spot and you're good to go, Reese. I endorse that. I don't think Reese listens.

9:34Rich Ryerson: Okay. The main reason I'm excited to talk to you today, Tim, is give me a real guess, not the bald thing. That's not real.

9:43Brae Fisher: Take a guess. I can see this going one of two ways. Obviously, we started off back in January with a kind of eight-race focus. We got through the first two and then the last four have completely fallen apart, completely out of our control. So I think it's either going to be overcoming when a season goes awry, but you're training your heart out or potentially the Hall of Fame situation that we talked about a couple of weeks ago. I'd say one of those two directions.

10:08Rich Ryerson: Well, I plan on getting to both of those things. I'm going to say option C. It's option C. But those are both things that are on my list, which we don't make lists or take notes on this podcast. I think the last time I took a note was year one. What about you, Bracken? I took notes for something the other day. Okay. Well, it's all up here. I took notes before this started. Oh, there you go. It's all up here in the noggin over here. But I feel like you're the most interesting man in the world, we'll say. Well, you don't have enough hair to be him, but I don't understand how you got to today. I don't know.

10:46Rich Ryerson: I guess for the listeners, Tim and I don't have a monthly face-to-face call. We hear each other's voices because we send voice notes back and forth. We've had a handful of video calls, but I've never actually learned fully about how you got here in life, how you got here in sport, because you're very involved. Obviously, you have a services background. You're involved with the fire department, correct? That's right. And so you got three kids or four kids now? Four. Okay, four. It's hard to keep track these days. Four and out, baby.

11:18Brae Fisher: Four and out.

11:19Rich Ryerson: Okay. And you're a guy with a lot of balls in the air, really. You're juggling a lot. You're making it work. Sometimes your training schedule gets scrambled because life is demanding. And so, first of all, I just want to know how Tim Gribble got to be Tim Gribble. Your upbringing in both sport and then your upbringing in your services and career path. It's very interesting to me because you're one of the more disciplined guys I know. You're one of the more I state facts, not excuses guys I know. I always hear good copy from Tim, so I know he's a military guy. Good copy. Like, I got it, Tim. Good copy.

11:56Rich Ryerson: And so I just want to know how he got here. So why don't you tell me a little bit about younger Tim, wherever you want to start?

12:06Brae Fisher: That's really an open slate to work with. But from the kind of life and general fitness background, my dad is a CEO of YMCA. He tried to retire six years ago. He stayed retired for two weeks. They brought him back as the operations manager. And then four months later, he was back in the CEO seat. So I was blessed with the opportunity to grow up in that environment. And really from as far back as I can remember, I was playing every single sport. That's why I offered and just trying to kind of figure things out. My dad is a raw athlete. And I remember that from a very early age. He can watch any sport and he just knows how to do it and he can do it very well.

12:45Brae Fisher: That's how my daughter is, the nine-year-old. That's not me. Growing up, in the earliest days, I did a lot of basketball, soccer, and baseball. And then as I transitioned to middle school, those were no longer offerings. So I switched to football. I did stick with basketball. And then I did track. And really realized early on, it took a lot of work when it comes to the ball skill sports for me to be average or slightly below. But I still wanted to try hard because that's what all my friends were doing. and moving from middle school to high school, I jumped in really as hard as I could into football and love it or hate it, I was only a hundred and I think as a freshman, maybe 160 pounds, but I could squat and deadlift in the mid threes.

13:33Brae Fisher: So I was on the line. I still was not a skill athlete at all. And then for the winter season did swim team where I was a sprinter, just focused on fifties and hundreds. I was a splash and dasher and I was a thrower. and track. The only time I would run one year or one meet out of the year, excuse me, we had a kind of a specialty meet and it was a four by one relay team where you run back and forth. It's not all the way around the track and you might have a baton, you might have a basketball. It's whatever the race director gave you that day. And it was kind of a race under the lights, which was pretty cool, but really minimal running background, getting me to do anything much more than the gym mile was a big stretch.

14:13Brae Fisher: I like to do everything else. I like to be in the environment. I really liked the aspect of training for the sake of training, nerding out a little bit. I was a huge Dragon Ball Z kid growing up and the heroes on that show, they just did hundreds of thousands of squats and pushups and situps. So that's what I did. And that was really my strength training, even though growing up in the Y, I wasn't really allowed to be in the weight room unless the building was closed. So just did a lot of stuff like that at home. And I think that kind of shaped what I perceived to be the best way to get to get big and to experience gains was just by doing something less sensational, but doing it very repetitiously.

14:56Brae Fisher: And obviously, as I got older, specifically with school sports, a lot of more structured gym time and things like that. But can I ask you real quick? Please. Yeah.

15:07Rich Ryerson: So, okay. So you were exclusively like a power sport. I didn't, I don't know any of this. Like we haven't really had this discussion. Were you choosing like the explosive power sports stuff or was it choosing you? I think. Cause you're so far from that right now. You're a strong guy, but you, you are so left to center if that is your center right now. So it's, this is, you know, unveiling.

15:29Brae Fisher: Yeah, no. I think I chose it. There was always kind of that calling but all my friends did football and soccer was no longer an offering after seventh grade. So that's why I switched over to soccer. But some of my some of the guys I looked up to who were either in my grade or the grade above me, they did the running side of track and they were cross country guys. But my core group of friends were not to associate with those guys in the short shorts. So I didn't want to hang out with the guys in short shorts outside of the classroom. So I chose to stay on the power front, but I think deep down, I kind of had that urge to do things on the endurance side.

16:09Brae Fisher: It just took me a little while to lean into that. Yeah. Do you remember that, Bracken?

16:14Rich Ryerson: I remember that being a pressure for me. Like, not that I guess everybody wanted to be cool back then, but choosing the cross-country team wasn't cool. It's why I went out for soccer instead of cross-country and made the team and then showed up and realized that I wasn't going to start on the JV squad and left because of ego probably. But I remember feeling that pressure to like, the ball sports was the cool thing. Was that how it was for you, Bracken? I don't know this answer for you. Yeah, for sure. I was a little less

16:42Tim Gribble: bothered by it. I was lucky from a young enough age, I felt comfortable at least half the time doing my own thing, but I wouldn't run in running shorts. My first day, I was on a cross country and track scholarship my freshman year. In first day of practice, coach kicked me and my roommate out and said, you're not allowed to come back until you have running shorts. So I went down prior to my first day of being a D1 runner. I bought a bunch of soccer shorts. I was like, this I can handle. I wore soccer length shorts. And he said, you will not practice with us until you dress like a runner. So rather than skip practice, he kept this pair of XXL 1980 split shorts and you had to tape them around your waist so they'd fit.

17:25Tim Gribble: and they were like a giant skirt. They were so big and flappy and that's what we ran in. And so we could get to a store and get running shorts. So to that extent, I avoided trying to look like a runner.

17:35Rich Ryerson: My shorts went below my knees for my first, at least through junior year, like true basketball shorts, like the local university. That was like, you'd like wear short shorts. And now Bracken, you wear shorts arguably too short. So you have also deviated left to center. Does not compute to me.

17:52Tim Gribble: Not sure what that phrase means.

17:54Rich Ryerson: All right, Tim. So then you get through high school. What did you play in high school?

17:58Brae Fisher: In high school, I did football, swimming, and track.

18:01Rich Ryerson: Okay. And talk to me about your progression of sport there. And then also then your – I don't know how to high school if you went right and enlisted or what you did. I don't know your route.

18:11Brae Fisher: Yeah, so I enlisted as a senior in high school. Why? Because I always knew that was something I wanted to do. Truly, that's another one of those earliest imprinted memories. I knew I wanted to serve my grandpa on my dad's side, served in the Korean War. And that guy was my idol. I wanted to be just like him. And up until really up until I enlisted in the Air Force, I was going to join the Marines. But my mom had a lot of health issues going on. And I graduated high school in 2006. So that's when the Iraq War was really at its height. And I knew if I went into the Marines, that would probably do her end.

18:46Brae Fisher: So I opted for the more, not to speak despairingly, but the safer route by going to the Air Force. And, uh, joining as a senior in high school gave me the opportunity to go to drill weekends and things like that, but I couldn't make it to basic training until January of 2007. So I went to college for a semester and then I went in, uh, for basic training in tech school. I was there for, I don't know, we can arguably say six months. And then I came back to school and just did the military on the part-time thing, the one week in a month, two weeks a year, uh, until deployments came on.

19:19Rich Ryerson: So what's the, what's the, uh, I always get curious about this. What was the initial draw, being like your grandpa, I understand, as a role model beyond that? Because it's definitely the road less traveled to go that route.

19:33Brae Fisher: Yeah, it is. But I think it's one of those things. There are three people, three different types of people that choose to join any branch. And it's either one of those things you just know in your core that it's what you want to do. And whether you do a single enlistment of two to four years and then you get out or you do a whole career, you know that that's where you're supposed to be. And then there are the people on the extreme opposite end who find themselves standing in a courtroom and the judge says, you're going into the military or you're going to jail. And then I'd say there's another group of people kind of down the middle who just need college money.

20:05Brae Fisher: And being on the National Guard side, we come across a lot of people like that. And truly just I knew it was something that I wanted to do. and I started off in logistics because I wanted to something that could translate to the real world once I figured out what I wanted to be when I grew up. And then as the logistics operations were kind of downsizing, that's when I became an Air Force firefighter briefly. And then I commissioned and became an officer after that. So it was kind of a natural progression once I was already in. And actually this past April, I hit 20 years of service.

20:38Rich Ryerson: Wow. I did not know that.

20:39Brae Fisher: Yeah.

20:40Rich Ryerson: Yeah. Yeah. I had a grand, my grandfather fought in World War II. my mother's uh father and so we but that's the only person in my family who has served and even extended family that i know of i don't know do you have anybody back in yeah we have a few of my

20:55Tim Gribble: grandpa was a paratrooper had a uncle in vietnam a few others that were part of all that but

21:02Brae Fisher: did you uh receive a deployment uh yes i've deployed a couple times uh to the middle east and a few different operations, not deployments, but kind of some events that were more than a few weeks long over in Europe here and there and a lot of domestic stuff, certainly.

21:21Rich Ryerson: So I had a question. I just lost it. That happens sometimes. Oh, I know what it was. So did this combine your fitness and your military, your Air Force pursuits? Were they intertwined then? Because right now they're very intertwined. You're still in a very much a leadership role. I feel like I'm a fitness side. Um, was that part of the stick to like the physicality of it for you or no?

21:46Brae Fisher: It really wasn't. And, uh, I guess that was part of the timeline. We hadn't quite gotten to after graduating high school, uh, for that brief period, before I went off to basic training, I didn't have the, what comes next in terms of a fitness progression, because for the first time I was not part of an organized sport. And I jumped into a lot of intramurals in college and I was just kind of bro lifting on my own zero cardio. My cardio in preparation for basic training was swimming because it's what I knew. Uh, so that makes sense. You know, they tell us anticipate running two to 10 miles every day, um, for six and a half weeks.

22:18Brae Fisher: So I chose to spend that time preparing in the water and got shin splints as soon as I got there. Um, because they issued us these classic white sketchers that had the blue S on the side that they don't do that anymore because of how many lower leg injuries came with that. Completely flat, no support shoes. We all had shin splints, knee issues. And we had to run a 5K to get out. And I forget what the time standard was, but it took me 22 minutes. And that was with us running more or less every day, but it was 22 minutes to run that 5K, turned myself inside out. And I do remember being close to whatever that time threshold was.

22:58Brae Fisher: And I decided in that moment, Like this will never happen again. I am never going to be back of the pack in anything ever again. I'm going to interrupt now.

23:08Tim Gribble: My turn. Since Kirk got one freebie, I'm taking mine. This has come up from time to time with athletes I've worked with who have served or people that I'm prepping. Do you think some, like a running fitness time should be a part of it? A running fitness time. Tell me like a five K time or two mile time or a one and a half mile. Now, do you think that a time is necessary for space for military service?

23:34Brae Fisher: I mean, we all have annual PT tests and the Air Force just switched from a mile and a half to two miles. I think the Army still has their two mile. The Marines, I'm not sure where they're at right now, but there are thresholds that you have to meet. Do you think they're useful?

23:49Tim Gribble: Do you, do you, in your, without speaking in a way that you can't right now, do you think that that is a reasonable, um, indicator of anything you'll ever have to do on deployment? Or do you think that rucking metrics would matter more?

24:04Brae Fisher: I do believe functional fitness metrics matter more than a structured mile and a half or two mile time. I'm not familiar with too many instances other than the Operation Mogadishu of Blackhawk Down when they had to run the two miles out of downtown Somalia or downtown Mogadishu back to the soccer stadium. I'm not aware of too many. In Kipta. and in full gear yeah absolutely um i'm not familiar with too many instances where they've had to do that so i think something like uh the hammer test which the air force implemented a couple years ago i think that's functional because very short sprints uh is is incredibly common

24:42Tim Gribble: across all afscs or across all the jobs um the space force actually has what they're considering

24:49Brae Fisher: or calling lifestyle fitness so everybody wears an aura ring and they're experimenting with a couple of different garments. And I don't know what they have determined is healthy for the every person, but they've determined somebody who's a sprinter versus someone who's a marathoner versus an avid CrossFitter. They're all very fit in their sphere. So who are we, the higher levels to say what is fit and what isn't fit? So I really think they're onto something with that. But I don't necessarily think that long distance component to call it that I don't think it's particularly functional, but you do have to have something.

25:22Brae Fisher: When I joined the Air Force in 2006, they had just phased out their bike test. And that was a joke. I wasn't joining the Air Force. I was joining the Chair Force because they had a 15 minute wattage test, but it wasn't on a fan bike. It was on a bike that had standard handlebars and that you just had to pedal. And that was very easy to game. I remember coming in and some of the old heads, very overweight, smoking a cigarette while they were doing it, but they could pass every time. But they probably couldn't go 100 yards at a jogging pace. So I think we've come a long way, but it's like any other test.

25:55Brae Fisher: What is real versus what is functionally manageable for pretty much the entire force across the board.

26:02Tim Gribble: Okay. Sorry to derail you, Kirk, but I've been dying to ask someone recently. It's come up like three times in the past month.

26:08Rich Ryerson: You're not derailing me. That's a very good question. Now it has me wanting to ask another one. What do you think is, if you had to look at the list of tests or components, which one would be top pillar for you as far as like, if I see like what's, what's the most impressive or important to you of the component and what do you think could go?

26:27Brae Fisher: So we just implemented, uh, what we're calling the alternate component. So you can either do standard pushups in one minute or hand release pushups in two minutes. Uh, I like having that option. There were, I think four different core components, which I was really against, uh, I was fine with just the standard issue air force sit-ups until I herniated four discs in my back. And now I can't do a single standard issue set up. So I do the, uh, alternate of the cross body set up, but I, I really, I'm a big fan. Like I said, of that hammer run. I think that is very universal and it's application.

26:58Rich Ryerson: What is that exactly?

27:00Brae Fisher: Uh, it's sometimes referred to as the beep test. There's a 20 meter span and you have to get from end to end in a certain amount of time and every four or five, the beeps get faster and faster. You guys had Chris Woolley on years ago and he had just set some world record for how many laps he got on the beep test. It gets pretty spicy. It starts off incredibly easy, but then it gets insane real fast. It goes from good to bad. And there's no turning back after that. But I'd really have to think about what could go and what as most functional because every job is so different. Um, on the air force side, my brothers and sisters are going to hate that I'm saying this outside of special operators.

27:41Brae Fisher: We really are more of a support component, just period dot the army and the Marines. They're on the front line with the guns, moving the stuff and doing the stuff, if you will. So their needs are significantly different. Um, at my base right now with the job I'm in, uh, I lead the force support squadron. So we have an administrative side of the house and then the food fitness and lodging side of the house. It's tough to argue that one of my personnel troops needs to be able to ruck 15 miles with 50 pounds on their back. Is it a good skill to have for our profession? Sure. Will they ever have to do it?

28:14Brae Fisher: Not likely. So there's not really a one for one across all branches, across all jobs.

28:20Tim Gribble: It's kind of like the NFL combine where the linemen and receivers may not, they overlap some of their tests, but they don't all have to do the same tests.

28:28Rich Ryerson: Right. I was getting a young woman ready for her sort of introductory testing and they were doing like hanging knee tucks was one of the standards. And then she also had to jump across something in one of these like obstacle course race type things. And it was, you know, she was shorter, so it was a big stretch for her. And then there was this overhead med ball throw, all of those things. It feels like they've rotated through a lot of different things over the years.

28:54Brae Fisher: They have, and you were training somebody for the army.

28:58Tim Gribble: I recognize that test.

28:59Brae Fisher: They've moved away from that actually. I think that over the head ball throw could absolutely go. The argument they were trying to make by leaning forward and exploding backwards, that's a really good indicator of total explosive power. They also have to do a max deadlift, which I think can indicate the same thing. But there were a lot of back injuries that came from that leaning forward to launching backwards as far as you can go. And there's so much technique with it. I mean, I would watch some people shoot that ball 30 feet up, but it lands two feet behind them. And conversely, there'd be people who would shoot it 50 feet behind them, but it's, you know, this far above the ground.

29:34Brae Fisher: So yeah, that one's definitely one that could go, should stay away forever. I think that the branch academies still do that or a version of like kneeling football throw. Why does West Point do that? Why does the Air Force Academy do that? I We're not trying to become NFL quarterbacks.

29:51Tim Gribble: I've seen three Kings. They attach a little IUD to a football and they threw it.

29:57Brae Fisher: You know what? Sometimes desperate measures call or desperate times call for desperate measures. So I guess there's always a reason in a way. That's right.

30:04Rich Ryerson: So what do you think? Strength and power or endurance are more important if you're serving our country?

30:09Brae Fisher: Boy, you're really boxing me in and making me answer on this one. It's got to be a blend of both. I'm going to take a BK stance on that one and I will sit on the fence. because both really matter. So I got to say both.

30:23Rich Ryerson: If all you know is that a guy can run his two miles in 10 minutes in a vacuum, but a different guy can squat 500 pounds once, which guy are you picking? Who do you want on your team?

30:36Brae Fisher: I'm going to take the runner because I feel like there could be some universal applications to what his skill set brings, whereas that massive squat, he may be a one-trick pony, and when we have to run from this building to that building, he can't make it. And we all go down together. So I want the guy who can move.

30:53Rich Ryerson: Okay, last question. You got the 10-minute two-miler. His max squat is 135. You got the 500-pound squatter, and his two-miles is 16 minutes. Now which one are you picking?

31:08Brae Fisher: Man, so further on in this conversation, we're going to talk about what I do with the fire department, which is the physical training. And when I have those two people who show up on day one of our academy, I try to get them both a little bit more towards the middle. When it comes to someone's back squat, I don't need them to be a superhero. I just need to know that they can carry the guy or girl beside them in their full kit. If they can move that person preferably 100 meters, maybe two, I'm cool with that. So we can just kind of merge both the cardio endurance and the strength just to be able to get the job done to keep someone alive.

31:40Tim Gribble: I'm actually impressed by both those individuals, Kirk. Mark, eight minute pace for a 500 pound squatter is actually pretty darn good. Yeah. And how many high school 10 flat runners do you think would comfortably move 135 on a bar? I think they both have potential.

31:56Rich Ryerson: I like people to take hard stances, really rattle the cage of our listeners, piss them off a little bit.

32:02Tim Gribble: I'll give you a hard stance as not a military person, but someone, I had several guys that I roomed with in college that were back from deployment and then worked with probably 30 people over the years who have gone on deployment. And I think the middle distance stuff is the last thing I would ever look at. You either need to be able to explode and sprint for, like you said, 20 seconds or less, or you got to be able to be at a slow walk or fast walk, slow jog for hours. The middle distance seems to be the least important part. I concur.

32:34Brae Fisher: I mean, let me turn it back on you, Kirk, as a mustache-wearing manly man. I mean, what do you want to see out of servicemen and women? What instills confidence in you if you see a group going by?

32:48Rich Ryerson: I have such a – Proud and safe. No, it's – well, you've got to have a nice physique to look at. So you've got to be a – Kirk likes a serviceman to look good in a uniform.

32:57Tim Gribble: Yeah, put a little oil on it. I'll send you a calendar.

33:01Rich Ryerson: Are you Mr. August? I'm so biased that I think that a display of endurance, in my opinion, coincides with discipline more frequently than a display of power. Or are you going to anger some people? Yep, I really do. I think that the consistency required to really put out over duration requires a consistent discipline that I think isn't required to be a power athlete quite the same. so i'm gonna say i'm gonna say i would take the guy who displays endurance even if he doesn't have great packs brack why are you so happy right now yeah bk give it i maybe have never disagreed

33:44Tim Gribble: with you more okay i think that the the most disciplined people i've ever seen are the true power athletes or bodybuilders people that are there with their little notebook and their timer every single i think they're the same people i think marathoners and uh power lifters or bodybuilders are the same drive. They just manifest at the opposite end of the spectrum, but they're both so disciplined. I think bodybuilders and weightlifters keep better training logs than most runners do until Strava came along.

34:15Rich Ryerson: I'm not arguing with that either. They're just channeling their energies into different domains, but I'm saying like to be

34:20Tim Gribble: relatively - But I know who's going to make it through special forces hell week better.

34:23Rich Ryerson: But I'm saying like to have relatively decent power, like if you show up to the gym three times a week and do something with purpose, you're going to yield quite the results. And maybe you could say the same thing about running, but I think it just requires a little more consistency than that. That's all.

34:35Brae Fisher: It's fair enough. I mean, the documentary, I think it's called The Selection. They talk about success rates and who is going to make it through when you have a cross-section of 50 people. It is always the runners who succeed from the three mile to 10 mile consistently on day one, they are the ones who are going to make it through in the end, as opposed to a crossfitter or a power lifter. And again, selection is a very niche group of people and the entire military spectrum. And I forget who conducted that study, if it was Harvard, Yale, one of those very, very well-regarded colleges, universities rather.

35:15Brae Fisher: But you know what, what's the study? You're always going to find what you're looking for.

35:18Tim Gribble: We had the selection TV show. It was a history channel, put it on and we knew a dozen of the people on the show and they took people from all walks and the OCR people won it. Yep. All right. Yeah.

35:33Rich Ryerson: Um, all right. Uh, but, and by the way, you should have both. You should be able to run under 10 in a two mile and you should be able to squat 400 pounds. You should be able to bench minimum two 50 and you should be able to do it all. And that's the guy I'm picking. Sign me up. Let's move on. That's perfect.

35:49Brae Fisher: I mean, John Rambo is your guy.

35:50Rich Ryerson: Yes. Let's move on. I'll take Nick Baer all day. So move on from college and enlisting and all of that. Where did Tim go with his life?

36:00Brae Fisher: So we'll take a step back into college, came back from basic training, determined to never finish at the back of the pack again. I immediately jumped into a midnight soccer league and tore my ACL doing that and had to do a lot of cycling for rehab. And that's really what started me on my endurance journey was that rehab program because I was non-deployable in that state. The Air Force required me to get my ACL fixed. And until I was fully cleared on everything, I was non-deployable. And what that means, if you stay in that status for too long, they just remove you from service. And I was not going to allow that to happen on the first day raise my hand.

36:40Brae Fisher: I said I'm in it for the long haul, which 20 years is retirement age. 32 years is going to be max if I can make it that far, but I've hit that 20 year threshold, but I knew I had to get back in the fight really quickly. Um, so a lot of physical therapy, a lot of rehab. I know BK, you've experienced some knee issues as well. Um, and that's when I really started to kind of come into my own. I realized how much I enjoyed the, the long distance cycling. And, uh, we had a fundraiser up a Bowling Green. That's where I went to school and we rode from Cincinnati, Ohio up to Bowling Green, Ohio, uh, which was, I think about 180 miles.

37:16Brae Fisher: I don't remember exactly. We stopped somewhere in the middle for a refuel recharge, spend the night and go back. And that was really when I came into the, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to get better at. And this is strictly on me coming from a very small town here in Ohio, where my parents were the first generation galleonites. Certainly my lack of skill played a role in why I wasn't the star on the football team, But it was also one of those towns that if you're not a second, third, fourth, fifth generation Galleonite, you're not going to be the star, period, dot, no matter how good you are.

37:51Brae Fisher: And the big draw for me to the endurance side of the house was it's you against the clock every time. And, of course, you know, we're talking college years where I'm not on anyone's team anymore. It's just me. But my hard work directly translated into my results. And that was something that really captured my attention. And that's something that I still coach my kids through. We just finished summer swim team and this was my first year coaching them. And I've been a soccer coach for four years. But I told them all the time, like, guys, this isn't about what the person beside you does or what their parents do.

38:23Brae Fisher: This is you against the clock every time. So worked my way through that injury, worked my way through that charity bike ride. And that opened up the door for really my first marathon, which was horrendous. I did it in basketball shoes, basketball shorts, and a pocket full of gummy bears following an old Hal Higdon book. And it was not good. And that's when I determined, like, I don't know everything. I should probably get some help. So I talked to a local cross-country coach and started to formulate what I wanted training to look like. And I was still trying to figure out how to be my own athlete on my own time, making it in the real world.

39:01Brae Fisher: I graduated college by this point. I was working full-time on my base. I wasn't a firefighter yet but that kind of opened the door to triathlon for me and I spent my 20s in triathlon and loved it that was a great opportunity to be kind of on the sharper end with the shorter stuff the sprints and Olympics and I had it made up in my mind I was going to become a professional triathlete and that was part of my driving motivation to become a firefighter I wanted a job where I still got to help people and this is going to stereotype. But I wanted a job that also gave me paid downtime to be able to train, train for the job, but also train for my own pursuits.

39:44Brae Fisher: And firefighting allowed me to do exactly that. Now, at the time, I was not anticipating joining a major metro fire department. I'm a firefighter here in the city of Columbus. And we're one of the biggest cities in the nation now, just through growth and stuff like that. I think as of the last census, we're like the 14th largest city, but 11th largest fire department. And, uh, there's not a whole lot of downtime for us. So that kind of flipped on me, but, uh, made some life changes and, uh, assignment changes to facilitate being able to train differently. Um, but getting all the way back to your most original question, it's just something that I've had in me and it took into adulthood to find my own space in the endurance space.

40:28Tim Gribble: I kind of know about this marathon.

40:31Rich Ryerson: That's where I was going to go next. It's perplexing to me, Kirk, because Tim, you knew enough to find Hal Higdon. Yeah. And you knew enough to bring carbs along, but you didn't get running shoes.

40:44Tim Gribble: I didn't.

40:45Brae Fisher: And, you know, I have a ton of running shoes now for all different things. And we're talking, this is 2010. So technology, shoe technology wasn't then what it is now. and the book that I had written by Hal Higdon in 1981 did not address shoes at all. It was all about heart rate training. And, uh, I bought a pair of sock and ease that they were running shoes. Um, and I trained in those. And then when I was packing my bag, I left my running shoes at home and I was at the start line and I realized I'm still wearing my basketball shoes.

41:24Tim Gribble: that that's more understandable unforgivable but more understandable unforgivable i would assume that the venn diagram of people who run marathons and basketball shorts and those who have a running book uh are those circles are a mile apart they are maybe a marathon apart you could say

41:42Brae Fisher: how bad were your feet by the end of that um the arches of my feet hurt so badly that i had to walk on the sides of, um, for like the, the next month. Uh, and I, and that's when I was full time on base. So I had to squeeze my feet into combat boots and I was normally, uh, park as far away as I could and walk into work every day and like always walking everywhere. I didn't move much for the next couple of weeks. I really messed up my feet in those shoes and they weren't new basketball shoes. They were basketball shoes from high school. So they were really beat down and they were like my mowing shoes that it just happened to be wearing that day.

42:22Tim Gribble: That's a nightmare. That is literally my worst nightmare.

42:25Brae Fisher: It was, it was horrendous and people make fun of me. I am the shoe guy now, uh, at work. I keep three pairs of shoes at the training Academy where I work. I keep three pairs and my primary car, uh, not so much the family van that's got a pair of speed goats because that's a do it all shoe. Um, and then here at the house, you know, I've got all the other shoes. I will never be caught with the wrong shoes again. That was so bad.

42:50Rich Ryerson: What was your time in your first marriage?

42:52Brae Fisher: There was a lot of walking there. Somewhere 411 to 423. I don't remember exactly, but those numbers stick out to me. I've tried to push that day away.

43:04Rich Ryerson: But you were ready to dunk a basketball and that's worth something. You know, it's funny you bring that up.

43:10Brae Fisher: I could dunk. I worked really hard as a freshman in college to be able to dunk and I could dunk then I am so far from the rim now that it doesn't even look like a dunk. It looks like I'm falling over. So there was no dunking back then in those shoes. I am not, I'm not bracken. I'm not doing the sub five minute mile and a dunk. I'm not doing either of those, let alone both. Well, I haven't run a sub five minute mile this year. There are a couple months left, but I'm, I'm waiting to hear you do that. I want to hear the result.

43:39Tim Gribble: Have you dunked

43:39Rich Ryerson: this year yeah okay um yeah i would have thought that would have gone first but their running seems has vacated me you could do you think you could run five minutes right now 459 if you went out today and did it yeah okay you just have to do it just have to do it you just got to do it

43:57Brae Fisher: after this call just go do it get that monkey off your back put the the running public people at ease you know because following you guys there are certain things we're looking for what are you guys doing for your birthday workouts? When are you hitting the mile and the dunk combo? When's Kurt going sub 15? These are things that we all think about and talk about. Listening to you guys, there are a handful of episodes, specifically bouncing back from injury and cross-training episodes that I have people that attend my fitness classes listen to. So listen, I've got people who are tracking your guys' whereabouts, your accomplishments, everything.

44:28Tim Gribble: When I do it, I'm going to tag you on Strava. I hope you do. So that you don't have to spend a second longer just stressing in your life.

44:39Rich Ryerson: Bracken's going to wait until the last week of the year between Christmas and New Year's when his brother Macaulay's home and he's going to make Macaulay pace him and it's going to come down to the wire like it always does. That's what's going to happen. I don't want that.

44:53Tim Gribble: But the last two years have been so inconvenient and horrendous with getting sick at Christmas. And then it can't happen like that this year.

45:03Brae Fisher: They can't. And not to get coachy or preachy on you, but that's why you got to do it today, my man. Because it's never going to be convenient. We've got all these kids everywhere. Sure, it's summer right now, but we've got these kids. We've got these injuries that are getting racked up. We've got so much life. It's never going to get more convenient. Today's your day.

45:23Tim Gribble: Well, he, Kirk, led that you're the least excuse-making man. So I'm not even going to sell your reputation with an excuse other than to say it's not going to happen today. All right. Well, I'll just declare it rather than excuse why it can't happen today. Because it could. It could happen today, but it won't.

45:41Brae Fisher: Okay. And you know what? You're owning that. You're owning that. So I will accept ownership. So that's okay.

45:47Rich Ryerson: Why do all these runners, these people who find running in midlife, it usually starts with a bad experience. It really does. Nobody's like, oh my God, I went for my first runner race and it changed my life. I realized it was so amazing. You probably said you were never going to do it again at mile 20, but here you are. Maybe it's the, I'm not the best or very good at this and that's unacceptable, so I must come back. I'm noticing a theme. But what was it for you that brought you back?

46:16Brae Fisher: Yeah, I mean, it was mile 13. I said, I'm never doing this again. You got there early. Oh, yeah. It hit early on. Again, those shoes just right off the line. They were so bad. Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about that a lot lately as I'm approaching 40 and thinking life legacy, family legacy, what are some of my driving factors? and I can honestly acknowledge still 20 plus years removed from high school, the varsity coach of our football team told me that I didn't deserve a space on the team. I was a three-year varsity starter, but he told me I didn't deserve a spot on the team or to be team captain because I wasn't in people's faces enough.

47:03Brae Fisher: It had nothing to do with talent. It was in his opinion I wasn't in people's faces enough, And that has stuck with me. And that is one of the things that drives me to run harder and train harder just to continue being successful. And unfortunately, we never got a chance to make amends. He did pass this past spring, but that's a little nugget that he carried with me. And I think there are a lot of people that fall into that boat. You know, we all have significant others who we can give them a hundred compliments, but somebody off the street tells them one negative thing about how they look in that dress.

47:34Brae Fisher: And that one negative thing is what sticks with them the most and can be that catalyst for why they do what they do. And I think running is the same way. And it certainly has been for me a lot of negative motivation has kept me going. and you know fortunately through a lot of a lot of hard work soul searching great family support um i do focus more on the positives now like i i did have four reps yesterday where i was really hurting badly uh it was pure sun there's nothing between me and the sun really uh but my kids were out there because i did have a brief moment of if i slow down for these last four and just do my penalty burpees because if I, if I missed a, a time hack, I was going to do 10 penalty burpees.

48:19Brae Fisher: I was like, oh man, we can do these as a family. I'll just do full, you know, we'll slow down on four reps. And there's no, these guys are watching me and I want them, I want them to see me suffer. I want them to see me work through it. And I want them to see me accomplish the mission that we all set out to do. So that's something that I've really tried in these later years of life. If we can call it that at 39 years, rather than use all that negative motivation that in the past did keep me going for a while. Now let's turn it into the positive. I am strong enough to keep going. My kids are watching me do this.

48:51Brae Fisher: There's going to be a day sometime down the road, maybe they'll be in their thirties. Like, man, remember that time dad was doing that really stupid workout on that really hot day and he looked miserable, but he got it done. Like I'm going to go get this thing done, this test, this whatever, you know, it doesn't have to be on sports or in fitness. It can apply to anywhere in life. So I think that is what keeps me going and what keeps me coming back is just the example that I'm setting for my wife, for my kids, for my coworkers. And on the work front, I do have a lot of younger people who are organizationally looking up to me.

49:28Brae Fisher: They're in my care. And specifically with the Air Force PT test, I'm never aiming to hit the minimums. I hold myself to the 18 year old standard and I will always max out my PT test and I will turn myself inside out until I retire to do that because those guys are watching those guys and girls and maybe they never had a positive example and I want to be that for them. So those are the factors that keep me going day in and day out when maybe this week I'm here sitting in Ohio and next week I'm back in Serbia or you know we're doing fire ground stuff or whatever the case may be. There's always going to be a reason not to do something, but if we look hard enough, we're always going to find more important reasons to do something.

50:09Brae Fisher: Lace up, hit the gym, take that first step for some people, whatever that looks like. There's always a stronger, better reason to do that next thing.

50:17Rich Ryerson: Yeah, creating, sometimes I feel lucky, but it is a space I've created. You sound like you're in the same boat, as in like your life is intertwined with your passion and the incentive to be a high performer is directly related to what you do on a day-to-day basis, how your paycheck is written in a sense. and I don't know I think it's a very rare thing to have that I find like that's a lot of times what's in the back of my head like will be the example because like your reputation and career rides on it versus if I had an office job and they were completely separate I always wonder if that's like just the special little x factor that some people can carry it's a rare position to be in but sounds like yours are pretty infused yeah they definitely are and I don't want to you

51:04Brae Fisher: know sit on this high horse and make it sound like I've always been this way because I haven't been And certainly during swim team, freshman through junior year, I would be very tactical. And when I would have to get out of the water to go to the bathroom, I mean, come on, it was a 90 minute practice. I never had to go to the bathroom, but when things got really tough, I had to go to the bathroom. And my senior year, I made it a written goal because we had to write a goal. My goal was to never sit out a single rep. And I did not sit out a single rep. And on the football front, my goal was I will never let another athlete cross my face.

51:36Brae Fisher: So being on the line, I was the left guard. I was a pulling guard. That just means you are not getting through me. I wasn't the best player. Again, not a skilled player, but not a single person got between me and the center my whole senior year. And the very first game we were playing Cincinnati Harmony private school and the dude who lined up across from me was six foot nine, 340 pounds. I was six foot 180 pounds, but he never got past me. You know, you got to make that goal and you got to, you got to stand on that. And we've got pictures like I'm down on my knees holding this dude up, but he never got through me.

52:07Brae Fisher: I wasn't stronger. I just out leveraged him. So I don't want it to sound like I've always been like this. That's some feedback that I've gotten on the military front. And once I transitioned into being the physical coordinator for the fire department, you've always been like this. You don't know what it's like to have to lose the weight to then get into shape. You've never had X, Y, and Z. No, my man, I have. I had that period where I had athletic purposelessness. I did blow out my knee and have to work back during COVID. It was, it was after the vaccine specifically, but I got myocarditis and almost died three times and I wasn't allowed to do anything for six months.

52:43Brae Fisher: So being able to take 10 steps was a challenge. I had a cardiac surgeon tell me never be alone with your kids and don't go up steps. I lived in a three-story townhouse. I had to go up steps. And at the time I was a single parent, I had to hold my kids and I had to be alone. I have walked in those shoes. You have to choose to take that next step. And whatever it is, you have to make the conscious decision to get better from wherever you're at. And it starts with not making excuses. There are reasons to not do something and that's okay. And you just got to own that for what it is. There are very valid reasons at times, but a lot of times you just have to choose that you're going to do it.

53:18Brae Fisher: You got to make the decision. Don't let the decision be made for you. Make that decision.

53:23Tim Gribble: So you're standing on the other side of this or you can just plant that flag in the ground and you already know it's done. Right. Right. But there's that time and it's increasingly present with current generations. It was something I noticed going back to high school teaching this past year is that because of our hyper fixation on feelings and emotions and being aware of what you're feeling and why at all times, like we have some pretty well-rounded humans coming up, but also people who listen to the excuse rather than push through. I think both can be true at the same time. And they're at the point where a lot of the current generation is, these are all valid reasons why I can't and so I won't consider it.

54:07Tim Gribble: So when you're coming out of heart issues that are preventing you from taking consecutive steps, things like that, were you able to plant that flag immediately and be like, better every day, this is what you do. I know I've been told I can't or shouldn't. But this or was did you go through that that struggle bus period during that time?

54:27Brae Fisher: I was definitely riding the struggle bus because I did have to set that small daily goal of I am going to go up three steps before I have to sit down and take that break. So I had small manageable goals that I wanted to accomplish, but I also had to do it in a way that was non reckless. You know, my kids, how old were they at the time? I think two and four, maybe one and three. I don't remember exactly how old they were at the time, but there were choices that I had to make, keeping them in mind. If I do drop dead right now, this is what's going to happen to them. But during the periods where I didn't have them, that's when I could stretch myself a little bit because I knew where I wanted to get back to and where I wanted to get back to was being a functional dad for them, not what I was experiencing at that time.

55:14Brae Fisher: And that's definitely an overarching caveat. You know, if we do talk about some of the injury stuff later on, I don't want to come across as a complete bro head who's recklessly being an idiot for bravado's sake. You know, everything has to be calculated for sure. And when it does come to working with these younger generations, again, on the military front, I've got kids that are seniors in high school or they just graduated high school or they're in those first couple of years. And on the fire side, man, that's crazy. We have recruit classes coming in where some of these kids are 18 and we have other people that are 45.

55:45Brae Fisher: And I have to get all of them within a very tight window of fitness. And the older guys, they don't really have room for excuses. You know, maybe they're just physically unable, but those kids, to your point, they have what are very valid reasons to not do something. And it's first finding that common ground with them. Hey, this is where I was. This is where you could be. What are your personal barriers right now? and when I first took over as the PT coordinator, I had that very drill instructor mindset of no matter how good you are, how smart you are, I'm going to completely break you down and rebuild you as a team because that's what I went through militarily and on the fire side.

56:26Brae Fisher: And this current generation, right, wrong, or indifferent, they don't operate that way. So if we're going to optimize the humans that are existing in our planes, we have to meet them where they're at and then carry them up together because they are capable. These guys are smarter than us. These results that we're seeing on the track, in the pool, they're going to be so much fitter than us. They are better than us. We just have to help them realize that and kind of cut out some of the distractions and obstructions that prevent them from seeing that.

56:56Tim Gribble: Well, you're in an interesting field in that it doesn't matter if society and culture has deemed things to be different than they used to be. The fire doesn't care. And combat doesn't care. So you still have to be prepared to the same standards as it used to be, but the methodology has to change. And that's, A, it's not a super fun or easy thing for your position to be in, but it's a challenge to get people to where they need to be within the confines of what now is acceptable.

57:28Brae Fisher: Absolutely. And really, to your point, yes, fire doesn't care what your body type is. You just have to be able to do X, Y, and Z. But when it comes to the EMS side, which is 93 % of our job here in Columbus, we're fire and EMS together. So that is the vast majority of our job. Humans are bigger than they ever used to be. So the fire standard is the same. The EMS standards are significantly harder. I had a nine-month period where I had to ride the bariatric truck. Here in Columbus, we have so many people that are 500 and 600 pounds. We had to buy a special truck for them. And there are a couple of single digits who are heavier than that.

58:04Brae Fisher: And I mean, it's really hard to convince a 145-pound recruit, hey, dude, you're going to have to get on this bariatric truck and you're going to have to help save this person's life. whatever got them to that state is none of your business. Your business is keeping them alive. And right now what you're doing isn't cutting it. So we've got to get you to where you can keep them alive. It's this job's not about you. It's about them, period dot. And people keep getting bigger and sicker and they always live on the top floor. Of course.

58:36Rich Ryerson: You said that the The current generation of young recruits are better than us, meaning us old heads. Do you see that? I mean, we see technology and we see shoes and surfaces and records being broken and by large, more people running faster than ever. Are you seeing higher performers as well still, even though there's an obesity crisis and there are more people who are large than there was back in the day, but you're still seeing these people better than we were back then? For sure. I think - Why do you think that is?

59:09Brae Fisher: Um, I think there were just a lot of just comprehensive changes that have happened. Certainly the training technology, but I think the biggest thing is an openness to try different things. Um, if, if you look at Olympics from 20 years ago, any sport you choose, how many of them were doing cross training outside of their specific sport? Not many. Now everyone does it. How many youth athletes grow up with a focus on nutrition previously? Not many. We just wrapped up, like I said, our swim season here at the local Y. We have a volunteer nutritionist who works with whoever wants to be worked with, but certainly our highest-end performers.

59:47Brae Fisher: We have a mental fitness coach on our local YMCA swim team who is willing to work with people. Back in my – like, that was woo-woo. That was mental fitness. Like, what does that even mean? I can't work out my brain. Well, yeah, you can. And it is more acceptable and more available. I mean, certainly shoes and YouTube, all of that kind of stuff serves a purpose. There's just so much more available at an earlier age. That's what's allowing people to reach earlier potential sooner. And certainly there's always a risk of burnout. And that's something we as coaches have to be aware of. But if you keep them proportionately progressing where they should be for their age, but you give them enhanced exposure, just by laws of nature and science, they will be better.

1:00:34Brae Fisher: And that's just where we're at. And we're seeing it in all sports. And it's really cool.

1:00:38Tim Gribble: And this generation has a hard time finishing things, but they don't have a hard time starting things. They will bounce all over the place. And while that part can be maddening, like if you're willing to or open to changing your gender identity on a weekly or monthly basis, you're going to be up for trying a different methodology and training. We're like, we weren't changing anything up in high school or in college across the board, as you would say, dot period. And we weren't, we weren't open to it. And it was so hard to get us to, if someone had wanted to convince me to train differently in college, that would have been like pulling teeth.

1:01:13Tim Gribble: But now they're like, show me why. Okay, sure. I'll try that. Like there are both sides to this coin.

1:01:19Brae Fisher: Yes, for sure. And your statement right there of show me why that's been the biggest thing that has challenged me as a professional trainer on the fire side. They will almost always do what they're being told to do. But if they are 25 and younger, I have to show them exactly why and how this sandbag bear complex is going to translate to fire ground maneuvers. So then I like, it forces me to always think of the why and how to the second and third order because it's not just, well, yeah, we're picking this person up off the ground. So we're going to work on the deadlift. It's everything that goes with it off the ground, onto the cot, from the cot, into the ambulance, back out of the ambulance, into the ER, into the ER bed where four nurses are going to be helping us, but we're only on the one side.

1:02:07Brae Fisher: So, I mean, you really have to get detailed. And I think that makes us better as well as professional trainers, professional coaches. It's no longer because I said so. That used to work and that used to be okay. And I do think, and so if any of my athletes would ever hear this, their eyes would be rolling in the back of their head. I do think that there is a space for that. There are some really cool books on how the East German cycling teams used to train. They put them in whitewashed rooms with overhead fluorescent light. They put one dot on the wall in front of them. And if they looked to the left or the right, there was a soldier beside them who would punch them in the face.

1:02:42Brae Fisher: So they were trained to never look left or right. And they had to keep their wattage at a certain percentage. I'm not advocating for that, but there was certain power in that. And that's why they were so good and so dominant in cycling for so long because they had that in there. But now let's talk about why it's important to be able to maintain power and wattage and consistency and the dangers of looking left and right.

1:03:04Tim Gribble: Long term, this will all be for the best. Yes. The implied obedience to authority can make you really good, but it leaves authority open to be abused. Yes. And it doesn't teach you anything along the way. And the ball has swung far to this one side. And long term, people in authority will know their material inside and out because they have to justify it. And it's okay to be challenged on it. And the other side will come through knowing the why of everything they've ever done. And it will be more synergistic long-term. It sounds like you take that approach, but along the way, both sides are hitting some painful hurdles.

1:03:44Tim Gribble: Absolutely. Yes.

1:03:46Rich Ryerson: I got to ask about this because it's going to bother me if I don't. Did you have an adverse reaction to the COVID vaccine and that caused your cardiac problems?

1:03:54Brae Fisher: Yeah. So I was on the COVID mission at the time. Each state's national guards were activated during COVID. And here in Ohio, we had an incredibly robust mission, Army and Air. They would send us into prisons and hospital systems when the regularly assigned staff had reached their threshold where they could no longer maintain their facilities. They would send us in there because we have, you know, doctors and corrections and all that kind of stuff on our team. So I was working the COVID mission. I got COVID, lost taste and smell. No big deal. It came back three or four weeks later, but part of the Department of Defense mandate at the time required us to get the vaccine and I avoided it as long as I could.

1:04:30Brae Fisher: And this was one of those things. I took ownership of my long-term career in service being more important than my willingness to stand up in defiance of that order. So I got the vaccine. And I almost immediately, I think it was about 72 hours later. Uh, I was, I was out on a run and then all at once, everything was spinning. I didn't know where I was at. I was 200 yards from my parents' house. I couldn't pull my phone out. Like the world came crashing down on me. And, um, fast forward a couple of days when they got me in, we had our own task force surgeon assigned to us and she recognized right away I was out of her care.

1:05:11Brae Fisher: So they transferred me to civilian cardiology and And the doctor said, hey, man, got to be honest with you. He was a younger guy, really liked that he wasn't just a yes man like so many others were at that time. He said, I'm going to be completely honest with you. Your heart has swollen to the size of a football and you have a baseball size growth off your bottom left quadrant. There's nothing we can do to help you. There's no surgery. There's no medicine. Your body's either going to fix this or you're going to die. And then and that's when he told me, absolutely, no more working out. Don't be alone with your kids.

1:05:41Brae Fisher: always have your phone ready to call 911. And there were three instances I needed to call 911, but I couldn't get the phone in my hand. I remember it like it was yesterday at that townhouse, bedrooms were on the top floor and my phone was beside me. I could see it. I couldn't turn my head, but I could look over and I couldn't reach 911. I kept my phone unlocked. I know this sounds really dramatic. So I just had to quite literally sweat it out and I'm either going to die or I'm not. and then the sun would come up the next day and I wasn't dead. So it took some time to come back from that, but it was directly linked to the vaccine.

1:06:17Rich Ryerson: That's unreal. How long did you deal with that for, like in its acute phase? Acutely like that, I would say between 30 and 45 days.

1:06:31Brae Fisher: Because the day I got the vaccine, I worked out later that day, no big deal. So the day after I got the vaccine, I did, I think it was about a 45 minute sandbag hit. I was really big into kettlebells and sandbags at the time. And I didn't feel good after that one, but it was the next day that everything really came crashing down. So I'd say 30 to 45 days. I was in that level of, I'm either going to die or I'm going to come out on the other side. What did that do to you mentally? Like your psyche? Where were you at? I was devastated. Again, I was a single dad at the time. And I was so concerned for my kids.

1:07:04Brae Fisher: and if I die when they're with me versus with their mom, are they going to know what to do? I think they were two and almost four at the time. So we had to have a lot of talks of if you come into daddy's room and he's not responding, you have to push this button, and it was 911. So we had to go through a lot of that stuff and a lot of end-of-life conversations, and I was 32 or three at the time. and just because of the divorce and some stuff from the deployments and the full-time fire before that, like fitness was my only outlet or my, my best, most healthy outlet. And that was completely gone.

1:07:46Brae Fisher: Um, and getting those three to seven steps in was all I could do. So having my outlet taken away at the most damaging time, I really had to get right with God, which was huge. Um, if I can't exercise my physical body. I'm going to exercise my spiritual fitness was the mindset I got to, but there were probably three weeks where I was in such a deep depression. And again, it was like the heart of COVID lockdown. There was nothing. I was very inaccessible. It was hard for people to get to me and I just really had to sit in it to come out on the other side. And truly, I'm grateful for the experience because it did help me reprioritize my life, but I also did not have any understanding of mental health issues to include, you know, suicidal ideations and depression.

1:08:33Brae Fisher: And that experience put me in both of those spaces. And I have a completely different outlook on that now. And I'm better able to relate to people who might be experiencing that. But I remember very distinctly, probably somewhere, maybe two months later, I was trying to ease my way back into fitness. And I think I hopped on the bike, I had a stationary bike in my basement, and I did like 15 minutes and you would have thought I sprinted a marathon. And I remember saying out loud, I am never going to work out again. And naturally, you know, the next day I tried again and it kept going further out.

1:09:09Brae Fisher: Things were getting better. And I actually hired a local coach at the time to help me because I wanted to dabble in the OCR space and just going from where I had been to working with somebody consistently was too much. And I had kind of a systemic reversal and that sent me crashing down. So I just had to sit still for about four months and let all systems slowly reset so I could build from zero. It was wild. And so you get, were you working at all during this time? I was still on the COVID mission. So when I was in that acute emergency phase, they didn't have me doing much, but the mission never stops.

1:09:49Brae Fisher: You stop. And when I was able to log on and do stuff remotely, I would. And then once I was able to be a functional human again, not on the fitness side, but I could walk, I could talk. Then I was back to reporting to the building and doing stuff in person.

1:10:06Tim Gribble: Did you lose any cognitive functioning? Were you dealing with big brain fog early on or were you effective at a computer-based job?

1:10:13Brae Fisher: I was not effective. No. Yeah. And it was tough because I was also in grad school at the time, which was all on the computers. And I had one professor based out of DC. He was really understanding during that emergency phase that the whole school supported me certainly. But that guy was just like, Hey, you're not going to do anything on the computer anymore. You're going to call me when it works. The semester doesn't end until this date. You're going to call me when it works for you. And we're just going to talk through what your responses would be if you were writing papers. so that was really cool i mean at a time when humanity was really struggling to identify right from wrong and really i would say when humanity was at its worst in a lot of ways there were some amazing humans that really stepped up to care for the greater community around them and i was certainly a beneficiary of that so no anecdote so to speak nothing it was like let's just see what

1:11:05Rich Ryerson: this thing does you went in for monitoring slowly but surely the swelling went down the growth whatever that was, probably some fluid buildup.

1:11:13Brae Fisher: A little bit of pericarditis on the outside.

1:11:16Rich Ryerson: Slowly but surely worked itself out and you basically lived by the skin of your teeth. That's what I'm understanding. You just never went into a major cardiac arrest somehow by the grace of God as you found your spiritual side. So that's really what it is. And then slowly but surely that fixed itself. You waited until your systems regained homeostasis and then you began training again.

1:11:37Brae Fisher: Right. I do have, yeah, that's, that's absolutely correct. Now I do, I would be remiss if I didn't say I have some permanent cardiac scarring on that bottom left quadrant. And in my first couple of years back after I regained health, if I would really be putting myself through an interval session, there's like general chest pain, but then there's stabbing chest pain. And when it would be stabbing, that was definitely one of those red flags. Like I have got to stop whatever I'm doing right now, get my hands in cold water, bring my heart rate down and just stop because the couple of times I tried to push through that ended me in the ER.

1:12:14Brae Fisher: So there are some long-term ramifications I'm dealing with.

1:12:17Rich Ryerson: Well, I'm your coach. I've never heard, I haven't heard of this since we've started together. So now you don't deal with that, correct?

1:12:22Brae Fisher: It's been about four years since I've had a flare up.

1:12:25Rich Ryerson: Just making sure. I'm like thinking of some of the crap I've prescribed you. I'm like, well, I would have put them there. I would have put them there. So bottom of the hole, can't move.

1:12:35Tim Gribble: And four months of sitting and resting and recouping, what did it look like, the journey out of that? To the point where you would call it what you're doing training. Like something you would have considered prior to this incident, this was a week of training.

1:12:51Brae Fisher: Right. Yeah. Yeah, it probably took me a full year from when I first went down, you know, that 72 hours after the vaccine. It probably took me a full year to get back to a down week of training, if you will. You know, every fourth week, the way Kirk prescribes it, that's just our down week, the volume, all that stuff. It took me a year to get back to that. And it was my townhouse was kind of on a hill. so I'd walk to the end of the road and back before like that was a measure and if I couldn't make it all the way down I'd go as far as I could leave a rock on that side of the alley so then the next day I'm going to move that rock a little bit further I mean it was that basic and strength training was out the window I looked I was incredibly emaciated you could count every rib all the all the gains from years of in the gym time were gone completely so I just had to very and I could not do the two together.

1:13:47Brae Fisher: I could not come back cardiopulmonarily, you know, specifically biking and running. And the running was really hard to come back at any meaningful level of intensity. I could push it a little better on the bike, but I couldn't swim. And swimming was a huge part of my background. But I don't know if it was just the breath restriction and it was more in my head than reality. My heart rate would instantly go through the roof while swimming. So it took me a couple of years to come back in the pool. But once I got the cardio point to where I could do some of those things more consistently for functional life, go from my basement to my top floor and back down without foaming at the mouth or go to the end of the alley and back.

1:14:25Brae Fisher: Um, then I was able to start incorporating strength back into it. And it was, my knees are down and I'm going to do two pushups. It was, it was that slow of a progression.

1:14:36Tim Gribble: Was there a turning point or was it just like drip, drip, drip?

1:14:39Brae Fisher: It was really drip, drip, drip. Very slow build. I never had to walk the training back after those couple flare-ups because I was so slow in my progression. Once I had reached that point of acceptance of, I can't force this any longer because it will kill me. Um, but I do distinctly remember the first time I did a five miler and I don't remember what day it was, but I could run five miles. And when I say run, I say that loosely. I was probably jockeying between a 10 and 12 minute mile with stopping and just being so grateful that I was to that point again, because I truly never, when I was in my darkest, I never thought I'd ever be able to function again.

1:15:22Brae Fisher: And if I stayed in that state, I'd have to be medically retired militarily. I'd be medically retired from the fire service. And everything I thought I was going to be as an adult would have been out the window. So it was truly every one day at a time, every step along the way.

1:15:37Rich Ryerson: We didn't cover this in our initial athlete consult called Tim. You left this detail out, which I feel like would have been good information. That's why I wear a heart rate monitor. Right. That's not why I do. But now I definitely wear yours. Not to speed up this conversation too much, but I want to get to a few things. Yeah. And I've got about 15 minutes, if that. So I want to get to a couple of things. It's not often that somebody is inducted into their high school hall of fame for non-athletic pursuits to my knowledge. um it sounds like you were a good athlete but it wasn't like you were mvp winning state titles no and then this year for you has been the year so first of all we've been pursuing ultras you've been going long and you've had one race ripped out from underneath you after another because of prior not prior commitments unforeseen commitments yeah and then finally we have this race this cinema-honed 50K that is finally we can circle it.

1:16:45Rich Ryerson: This one's going to happen. And then Tim Gribble gets a call from the gods that be at his high school and says, Tim, we're going to induct you into the high school hall of fame, and it's going to be on the day of your A race for the entire year. Yeah. And this is like the, what, third or fourth race that's been taken away from you this year. I mean, it's been absolutely asinine. We're still plugging away with training.

1:17:08Brae Fisher: things are going largely well you're very fit right now thank you but all that to say uh so

1:17:14Rich Ryerson: your last race gets taken away so you can get inducted into the hall of fame so we have two conversations to have in like 10 minutes which is which is how does somebody get inducted for their adult life um ongoings into a high school hall of fame why are you being inducted and then And two, we got to talk about pivots, we will call it. So talk to me about this induction.

1:17:38Brae Fisher: Yeah, so the way ours works, you are inducted based off of post high school success. That's why it is coming on the back end of it. So it's a combination of my military successes over the last 20 years, things that I've done, things that I've been a part of. And then on the fire side as well, having directly imprinted on the successful graduating of 400 plus firefighters. But then it is also the fitness side of the house is included in this racing at OCR Worlds, racing at DECA Worlds, USA Triathlon, National Championships, that Norwegian Foot March, a handful of other international events. So it's really the complete well-rounded post high school successful bucket that they put us into.

1:18:26Brae Fisher: And most recently, coaching has fallen into that. I think that probably tipped my scale a little bit further. And here we are, October 17th. I'll be getting this mug up on the wall.

1:18:40Rich Ryerson: What are some of the things you've done in your adult life, career-wise, or as a human being that you are most proud of? The thing that you're going to hang on your life wall in retirement age, what is it going to be? What's on that list for you?

1:18:55Brae Fisher: Well, the areas I'm most proud of are how we are as a family, how we operate as a family. Having the four kids that we do, raising them into being successful, productive humans is not the kind of thing that goes up on an accolade wall. But that is one of my biggest points of pride. My wife, who is in the background, none of what I've accomplished, certainly since we've been together, would be possible without her. So being able to show the kids what a strong, healthy marriage can look like, that is one of the things I'm most proud of. When it comes to the other stuff, being a good teammate is something that I'm really proud of.

1:19:34Brae Fisher: Things haven't always worked out and I'm okay with that as long as my peers believe that I'm a good coworker, a good teammate. It's not finishes and races. Do I always want to finish first? Do I show up on day one assuming I'm going to win? Yes. And that's what I'm working towards. But at the end of the day, that stuff comes and goes, but it's the family legacy that lasts forever. And everything that I've kind of been harping on about making a decision and sticking to it, not making excuses, and then instilling that not only in my kids, but in the kids that I coach and the people that I get to work with on the military side and on the fire side, those are the things that I want to be remembered for.

1:20:14Yeah, I guess those mean a little more than career accomplishments, huh?

1:20:18Rich Ryerson: What about your physical pursuits, your own selfish pursuits, your own race efforts, competition things? What are you most proud of there up to this point? And I think we're going to add some to the list here in future years. I know that. But what are you most proud of athletically?

1:20:34Brae Fisher: Yeah. Taking second place in that Norwegian Ruck March back in April, that really holds a special place to me. Um, that's, uh, an 18 and a half mile, uh, ruck March full gear with a 25 pound pack. And there's a time hack that we have to hit. And I finished second place in that. And that was with five days notice and zero ruck training. So that's, that's a huge kudos to you, Kirk.

1:20:57Rich Ryerson: And you were fatigued going into that. I remember that message you gave me, like we were in full on training mode. There was no taper for that.

1:21:04Brae Fisher: There was no taper and we were on the heels of a 50 K. but you know that speaks to the importance of when you're always ready you never have to get ready and that is a way that I choose to train not only physically but also you know mentally I try to never be more than about 30 days away from needing to sharpen up and because of all the intra-branch rivalries being able to smoke a bunch of soldiers and marines in an event like a ruck that really holds a special place in my heart. OCR Worlds 22 in Stratton, Vermont is really special to me, not because of the finish, but that's a race where I raced, my wife raced, our two older kids raced.

1:21:47Brae Fisher: And that was huge seeing that happen. The 50K that I did in Cinema Home last year where I took second, that was huge because that's where my dad is from.

1:21:59Rich Ryerson: You broke through on that race. That was a breakthrough race for you. You ran faster than we, we knew you were capable of. It came together that day, the mind and the body. Yeah.

1:22:08Brae Fisher: 63 minute PR, um, and the mountains of PA. Um, and just because of the family connection to that one, my, my grandparents have been gone for a long time, but when that race first started, they talked about these crazy people running in the mountains. And I remember thinking how crazy that was. And it felt so good being one of those crazy people. And that's what I do believe the three races that got ripped out from under us leading into this year's Cinema Home 50K. I think that it had to happen like that because I am a type A person with my lists and charts. And, you know, as we talked about on a, well, really, I guess it was an exchange of messages.

1:22:45But if I was having a hot season, which because of your training, I could have been, it would have been really hard to not choose to race over that Hall of Fame induction.

1:22:55Brae Fisher: and again family legacy is what what matters most and something that we haven't touched on yet my older sister who did swim in college and is an incredibly successful swim coach and teacher in town she's also being inducted at the same time so we're the first brother sister combo to be inducted at all but to be inducted at the same time like i had to be there and if you know i was running with hot feet it would have been really hard to walk away so i am a big believer everything happens for a reason. And the practice of having to accept those races not happening, um, has led me to where I'm okay right now.

1:23:28Rich Ryerson: It's a good trade-off. Yeah, I'll take it.

1:23:31Brae Fisher: I will say not being able to do frontline OCR. That was the first race that got ripped out from under us and BK. I see you smiling. I believe you've won that in the past. That was a huge redemption race for me. Uh, and that's what caused us to start working together directly. Kirk, I was on just the running public plan up until that point, but I just had too much going on. Um, I finished somewhere in the top 10, but it wasn't first. And then the year after that I was in Serbia at the time. So I couldn't do it then. So like, this is going to be my year. It didn't happen.

1:24:04Rich Ryerson: Yeah. Um, so what do you do then? I mean, it's interesting, I guess the last couple of minutes of our conversation, like, like we were putting in 20 mile long runs, you were putting together these big training weekends where basically you devote like a Friday and Saturday to training, which I know is hard to get away for you. You know, we did all these, all these things and it might feel all for not. So my final question to you is how do you reframe your mind when you work so very hard for something and then you don't even get a chance to try? How's that mindset?

1:24:36Brae Fisher: I'd be lying if I didn't say it was really difficult, especially early on. And, you know, Some of those weekends where we were doing the Friday-Saturday combination long run, and that were several hours away from the wife, the babies, all that stuff. That's really hard because it's not just me being impacted. It's a family sacrifice to pursue ultra, for sure. But something that I tell my kids all the time, you're never wrong for doing the right thing, and you're never wrong for bettering yourself as long as you do it morally, ethically, and legally. and doing those long runs when I didn't want to in less than ideal conditions, they helped me kind of resharpen my grit and my desire to put in that level of hard work.

1:25:15And again, it's modeling behavior that they can take something away from.

1:25:19Brae Fisher: So yeah, would I have loved to put that fitness on display on a race course? Absolutely. Am I worse for having gotten to that level of fitness when I should have been dead, you know, 10 years ago? Absolutely not. um every day is a gift every workout's a gift no matter how bad it feels and being able to really reframe my mind that these are full family pursuits it's not just about tim it's about all six of us and getting better along the way makes me a better dad it makes me a better husband it makes me a better coach and and i truly just take that and run with it well it makes uh it

1:25:56Rich Ryerson: makes sense when uh i mean you were your back was so thrown out for a while you couldn't put your socks on. Right. And you somehow is like, you figured it out and you never really threw a pity party. And then these races got pulled from you. And there were some down weeks. Like I could sense that you were a little frustrated just coming off of the back and then coming with that. But like you bounce back pretty quick. That has to be the perspective piece you now have that maybe you didn't 10 years ago.

1:26:22Brae Fisher: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And especially that back thing, herniating those four discs, that was a really good reminder. I think I may maybe lost some of that gratitude about my heart stuff and being back where I was because that was another time when all four of those discs went out. I was stuck on the couch for two weeks. I couldn't go to the bathroom by myself. I functionally couldn't even go to the bathroom. I needed a lot of help, and it was a good time to put me back or allow me to reframe things with perspective. Say, hey, maybe you don't need to be doing all this. Maybe it is time to chill out a little bit, have a little more time with the family, and focus on what matters most.

1:27:00Brae Fisher: Um, sometimes I'm a hard learner. Any birdie questions, Bracken?

1:27:07Tim Gribble: I know you got to go. I, Tim's guy, we could, I feel like talk to for another hour or two and someone would glean some golden nugget every, every couple of minutes here. So there's too many directions to go. I think I said we cut it, but, uh, Tim, Tim, you're gonna have to come back on.

1:27:23Brae Fisher: I would love that. Uh, I mean, I think you guys are great. Like I said, you guys are required listening for a lot of the people I work with on the fireside specifically i've referred a lot of episodes to my friends and family uh you guys have great you've been an incredible part of my journey as i've gotten into the endurance space and post triathlon endurance space specifically and um my wife's not going to say but you guys have cost me a lot of freaking money uh you talked about the nordic don't look at me oh no i'm looking at both of you you guys talked about that stupid nordic track inclined treadmill which mine's not currently working but i bought one because you guys said so and you had karenna on as a guest So I hired her as my nutritionist for six months and I'm paying you to work with you.

1:28:03Brae Fisher: I mean, I love you guys. You're, you're worth every penny.

1:28:06Tim Gribble: He didn't even mention super shoes, Kirk. So that was all you, you brought Corinna on you. You're the Nordic track guy.

1:28:12Brae Fisher: Oh no. I listen. I've got a wall of super shoes. He does. I got to say quick plug on the shoes. My run this morning was with the super blast three. It's non-plated non-super in that regard, but daggone it. It is one of my favorite shoes. It is so fun to run in. So if people are looking for a non-plated fast alternative shoe, that Superblast is awesome. And it's got great colors.

1:28:32Tim Gribble: I'm glad you said that. We are going to have to have an episode here, Kirk, where we talk about the best, fastest shoes that do not have a plate. I agree. That'd be fun.

1:28:41Brae Fisher: Required listening for all. What did you run your 39 400s in? I actually did the Brooks Hyperion Elite 5. It's a fun shoe. It's not transformative like the Alpha, but I have them and I haven't found a good reason to wear them. So I wore those for the ladder on Friday and then I wore them yesterday as well. Nice. All right.

1:29:03Rich Ryerson: People want to check out what you do. I know you're not a huge social media guy because you're busy living life, but where can people follow along?

1:29:09Brae Fisher: TJ Gribble Racing is my Instagram handle. I put a lot more stories on than I do just general posts, but that's probably the best place to find me. And I've got a TJ Gribble Racing at gmail.com. If somebody specifically on the military or public safety side is looking for some tips and tricks for success, I'm certainly available to help out with that in any way I can.

1:29:30Rich Ryerson: And last selfish question for you. Tell me, you can think about it for 30 seconds at most. What start line are you going to tow next now, Tim? I have nothing on your calendar. You have a solo half Ironman in two weeks, which you're going to do for funsies, which is the thing that Tim does for funsies. What are we putting on your calendar, brother?

1:29:50Brae Fisher: That's a great question. I'm trying to find a 5k so I can be fast or attempt to be fast. Something I've not really been in the past. But I haven't really found one that speaks out to me and I'm really digging deep. So I know you said 30 seconds gave you an answer, but I haven't found that one race yet, but we'll, we'll get it there. I'm thinking September is going to be our timeframe.

1:30:11Rich Ryerson: All right. We can resume that conversation. All right.

1:30:15Brae Fisher: That's all I got. Thank you so much, Tim. Hey, thank you. This has been great.

1:30:18Tim Gribble: Thanks, brother. If anything resonated with you on today's episode and you're curious about taking your training to the next level, check out therunningpublic.com, where we have a training plan to fit your needs.