Previewing the U.S. Open; Andy Roddick joins the show

0:00Rob Schaefer: Coming up on the pod, the U.S. Open is nearly upon us, Andy Roddick joins the show, and we dive into NFL data and analytics.

0:15Rob Schaefer: Welcome in to the SBJ Sports Media Podcast. I'm Josh Carpenter. And I'm Rob Schaefer, SBJ's tennis writer. Excited to be here, Josh. Yeah, it's good to have you here, Rob. You know, Austin is out this week. He's traversing across, I think, London. scotland iceland we hope that we get him back at some point he will make an appearance later in the show he interviewed paul baloo from the nfl to talk about data and analytics around the nfl so we'll get to that a little bit later on but first we've got you here you cover tennis racket sports for us and we are 10 days out from the u.s open main draw in new york a number of storylines around this event, first year of a renewed deal with ESPN, some injuries to big-name players.

0:59Rob Schaefer: You've got the return of mixed doubles, which was very popular, very well-received last year. Is there any one thing that you're keeping an eye out around New York this year for the U.S. Open?

1:10Andy Roddick: Yeah, Josh, I think the big thing in terms, or the big storyline of interest in the event from a media perspective that'll be interesting to track in the run-up is, and you alluded to it, the statuses of Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz, who are both currently sidelined with injuries. Alcaraz is more long-term than Sinner's. Alcaraz has actually missed the last two Grand Slams, the French Open and Wimbledon. He's been out since the spring. Those guys could play. They could not, even if they do play. Shorter layoff, rehab. You don't know how 100 % they'll be. The field feels more wide open this year on the men's side, at least, than it did maybe a year ago this time when it felt that Sinner and Alcaraz were meeting in every big final on tour or at the slam level.

1:55Andy Roddick: So you then, you look at, and we'll talk about this later in the show with our guest Andy Roddick, who is working the event for ESPN and of course has a very popular tennis podcast. It opens the field on the men's side for potentially one of the six American men in the top 25 right now. Could they make a run? Could that be something that creates It's a different type of environment on site or in the broadcast coverage. Could Novak Djokovic, who's still hanging on at the ripe age of almost 40, going for his 25th Grand Slam, which would be a huge story in the tennis world if he was able to do that.

2:32Andy Roddick: On the women's side, Serena Williams is back and actually just this week lost in a doubles match with her sister Venus in Cincinnati. But her status, also a little bit in flux. If she plays, there'd obviously be tremendous interest in that. So a lot of uncertainty, but certainly exciting opportunities on both sides of the draw when the main draw gets up and running.

2:53Rob Schaefer: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, years been at SBJ for almost 15 years now. And seemingly every year we would write this story during the height of kind of the Federer, Djokovic, Nadal era. And we would always write these stories in the daily about like who's going to be the next face of tennis and who's going to lead the next era and all this stuff. And so, yes, you still have Djokovic still hanging around to an extent, but it seems like you're ready to welcome in this era of Alcaraz and center and some of the other guys. But then you have these injuries that are hampering them. So then that just opens up the discussion of, like you said, it's a wide open draw, but it potentially, if those guys do not play at the U.S.

3:33Rob Schaefer: Open, and maybe you see an emergence from one of these Americans that we've been talking about, but Tiafo, one of these other guys, seemingly for the last, you know, five years or so, So maybe one of them is finally able to emerge. And we know what a U.S. winner would do for interest around the U.S. Open. Certainly would lead to bigger numbers, I would think.

3:54Andy Roddick: Yeah, Taylor Fritz, who was in a U.S. Open final two years ago, opportunity for him. Ben Shelton, who maybe has performed below his standard at the Grand Slams this year, but he just won a Masters 1000 in Canada earlier this month. Hardcourt is historically a good surface for him, and he's made deep runs at the U.S. Open before. You know, even down to a Tommy Paul or on the younger side of Lerner Tien who's pushing into the top 10 right now. It'll be very interesting to watch how those guys perform. But then, you know, you look at the U.S. Open as an event. This gets a little outside of the media conversation.

4:26Andy Roddick: That event has become such a monster and there's so much cultural crossover. There's so much lifestyle crossover, influencer culture, and people are going for as much of the spectacle. It's the see and be seen experience. Like, it's all that. Exactly. So in that sense, you know, if you're looking at it from the USDA's perspective, like, I'm sure they're prepping for a huge behemoth of an event. And it almost doesn't matter in certain aspects of the business who's on the court when you look at some of the premium experiences and things like that. But for drawing in new fans, for attracting interest at the broadcast level, you know, the quality of play and what names and what faces are making deep runs will surely make an impact.

5:08Rob Schaefer: We saw the introduction of this mixed doubles last year. It was very popular. It actually won the Breakthrough of the Year in Sports Business Awards this year. Anything to watch out there for in terms of, you know, new or just like continuing that momentum that mixed doubles had when it debuted last year on this event?

5:25Andy Roddick: Yeah, so that's the interesting thing, Josh, right? We started the show with the disclaimer that it was 10 days before the main draw of the U.S. Open. That mixed doubles event is actually a Grand Slam championship. It's as recognized or sanctioned as the singles or doubles titles, but obviously for mixed doubles. And that is actually during fan week when the grounds are free to enter. That's next week as we speak right now, Monday through Wednesday. Obviously, the finals of that on Ash are ticketed, and that event, you mentioned the interest last year, sold out. So they've modestly expanded it.

5:56Andy Roddick: There's now a qualifying round where it seems like a lot of the doubles specialists, for lack of a better term, will play for a chance to make it into the final 16 there. Obviously, when they reformatted that event, the USTA last year, the onus was to get more stars involved. So you have the Sabalenkas, the Djokovic's, the Iga Shiatek's, Fritz, Anna Samova, a top 10 American women's player, all kind of involved. in the field in terms of being direct entries, whether it be wild cards or by their ranking. So they got big names again this year. Obviously, no Sinner or Alcaraz at this point, at least because of the injury situation for the most part.

6:41Andy Roddick: So I would expect more of the same there. I would expect continued inter. It really packed out ash, and there was a great environment for it last year. I would characterize my sense of this year as leaning further into it rather than kind of a full-scale transformational change because if it ain't broke, you know, don't fix it.

6:57Rob Schaefer: Yeah, no, excited to see what we have in store at the U.S. Open. Speaking of that U.S. Open, last American male prop to win the U.S. Open, 2003, Andy Roddick. He's our guest on the show this week. You guys spoke kind of about that win, but also his knowledge and what made him make the decision to kind of get into the podcast world and then also to join ESPN as an analyst. We saw kind of great reviews around his coverage around Wimbledon, and we're also going to see him at the U.S. Open here shortly.

7:33Andy Roddick: Thrilled today to be joined by American tennis legend turned media mogul turned movie star, which we might get to towards the end of this conversation, Andy Roddick. Andy, thanks for taking some time with us today.

7:47Paul Ballew: Rob, I'm so happy to be on. Thanks for continually caring about tennis. We appreciate you.

7:54Andy Roddick: We thank you for that as well, Andy. And, you know, I'm sure a lot of tennis fans out there are or have been happy to have you be more part of their lives in a media media focused way over the last two and a half years with with the Served podcast and everything you all are doing at Served Media. Obviously, this is your first year since signing a multi-year deal with ESPN to join their analyst rotation, debuting at Wimbledon now as we speak preparing for the U.S. Open. Give me a sense. I know in the time post-playing career for you, you'd done some stints on television, public appearances, etc.

8:32Andy Roddick: But what brought you back to tennis media in such a pronounced sense since starting the, obviously, the serve show in early 24, now being on ESPN in 26 for multiple years? What brought you back to the sport and the media landscape of the sport in such a pronounced way?

8:49Paul Ballew: I think, honestly, COVID was the first domino, you know, for better or worse. And you speak about, you know, all things in that time sensitively, of course. But that was kind of my first foray into anything on Tennis Channel, where it's like, what am I going to do for the next, you know, year? And I kind of asked them for a job and started doing live shows for them with no real plan, I don't think. um so i had a great relationship with them for uh five years and then um producer mike who's uh co-founder and partner uh at serve media uh basically was capable of all the stuff that i knew nothing about as as far as new media right the the production side and the sound and how to make it look okay and um i had done a bunch of corporate stuff um for a client in during the U.S.

9:43Paul Ballew: Open and where you basically go into a room and you'd have 20 minutes. And I found that there was a reaction to being a complete nerd about what we were about to see. Right. I'm going to explain to you what I think is going to happen, why it's going to happen. This person is going to be trying to do this. This person is going to see if this works before they try to counter with something else. And to my surprise, like people were kind of into it. And so Mike and I were talking, we got We caught a little buzz one night and decided we're going to throw something up on YouTube or Apple, Spotify. The nice thing about new media is you don't really need to ask permission to do something.

10:24Paul Ballew: And so we did it and it kind of grew a little bit and then it grew a lot. And it's been a fun two and a half years. Obviously, ESPN is a completely different deal, but that was more just timing with our kids being able to travel with us and me being kind of more open to traveling. And also, when I wasn't really involved in the sport for eight years, I didn't watch as much as I probably should have or could have. I didn't want to be someone who went on as an analyst on ESPN who wasn't watching every week and just spouting off lazy opinions or half-truths about what I may or may not have seen. And so I just think that the timing was right.

11:08Paul Ballew: That probably served, brought me back into this love of tennis and this fandom on an intense level to where I thought I was probably, you know, being responsible enough to the game to be an analyst for ESPN.

11:20Andy Roddick: So coming into ESPN at Wimbledon, obviously you've done TV in the past, but this was your first and probably most kind of significant role since the podcast started and has kind of picked up steam. How did you find that balance at Wimbledon? What should we maybe expect from your role or segments that you're excited about in New York coming up in a couple of weeks?

11:42Paul Ballew: Well, first thing is Served only makes me better as an option for ESPN just because I know all the names. I don't know that I'm going to get caught off guard on air in a live segment on ESPN just because we are such nerds about everything on Served and kind of go through everything on a weekly basis. So that helped a ton. You know, frankly, you know, building and starting this thing with some people who maybe tennis wasn't their first love who are now in love with it. You know, I'll be in the middle of serve shows and I'll say something and Mike will stop and say, you know, what does that mean?

12:24Paul Ballew: Or Techie Sean will be, well, I have a question and it's something I wouldn't have thought of because I just kind of know it. And so I think the gear of explaining it to a broader audience has been sharpened through Served also. Yeah, but I was nervous. I knew that there was a certain amount of expectation. When you start getting texts from a bunch of people who aren't tennis-centric people about stuff that's going on, you know that something is kind of living outside of your little bubble a little bit. So I knew there was expectations. I was nervous and maybe confident at the same time. I felt like I was going to be well-read.

13:02Paul Ballew: I felt like I was going to be studied. I felt like I was going to be prepared. The challenge was, I don't know about eyelines and what buttons to post to talk to my producer. And all the stuff that's kind of the details of being on TV, I think, were a little bit more intimidating. But I think by day two or three, I felt pretty comfortable. And credit to everyone. everyone I worked with at ESPN was phenomenal from the back of the house production room, just the, you know, to people that brought me into, you know, Malika and Reese. And, you know, there was this agreement where, you know, I'll help you with name pronunciation if you help me not being an idiot on TV.

13:43Paul Ballew: So, you know, it was, it was a nice chemistry and a kind of an easy chemistry almost immediately.

13:49Andy Roddick: Let me ask you one more on served and then we'll get then some pre-U.S. Open talk. One thing I find interesting about the show, right, is you're not with one of the big distributors, the volumes of the world, the boxes of the world down the line. You have an independent media company, Serv Media, that you're a co-founder of. And obviously, you've expanded the program. I know you have your show, but you've also got Love All with Kim Clijsters. You've got the weekly News of the Week show, the newsletters. What can we, if anything expect to see in terms of how serve media might evolve or grow moving forward?

14:23Paul Ballew: Yeah. I mean, I think it's consciously in the title of our company, um, you know, served media. Um, I don't think anything's off the table ever. Cause why would it be? I can do a show. I can talk about tennis for two hours. That's not a difficult part for me. Yeah. Am I interested in doing, am I curious about things outside of tennis? Absolutely. Um, is there a more standard format podcast where you're storytelling, you know, the history of things? Absolutely. Can those be applied to other sports? Sure. You know, the one thing that I think we always are very conscious of is ideas are easy. Execution is more difficult and we are running a company.

15:03Paul Ballew: So we have to make sure that it's viable as far as interest, viable financially for our company. But yeah, I don't think our end goal is is is ever what we're doing today let's uh go to some u.s open storylines

15:17Andy Roddick: obviously a lot in flux in the in the tennis world right now in an interesting way we still have cincy going on the uh consensus top two where however the rankings shake out uh guys on the men's side alcaraz and sinner both sidelined right now uh with injuries let's skip over to the women's What should our viewers, listeners be looking out for, or what are you looking out for in terms of storylines on the women's side?

15:43Paul Ballew: Well, I think the biggest story right now outside of will Serena, you know, attend class or not, is probably Sabalenka struggling, which is just kind of weird for us to see because she hasn't in three years. Like she hasn't even had like peaks and valleys. It's just kind of been, you know, I either, I'm either making final or I'm winning something. And like the valleys are like finals. Right. So I think that's a concern. I think she probably needs a result in Cincy more than the other top players. And I only say that because Iga won last week and Rabakina, you know, made final and Coco played pretty well as she does.

16:22Paul Ballew: That being said, I don't know that it's crazy to say 15 or 20 women could win this tournament and you're not going to get like laughed out of a prediction room. We saw with Noskova at Wimbledon. I think it can open up. I think there is a level of parity in the absence of Ega dominating like she did week to week for, you know, three or four years. And the same with Sabalenka for the last three years. If I'm a coach on the women's tour and I'm coaching someone in the top 40, I can make a case for you winning this tournament.

16:52Andy Roddick: On the men's side, so given what we just talked about with Sinner and Alcaraz and it being in flux there. Whether they play or not, whatever capacity they're at, more open field on that side of things than it felt like this time last year, I think is fair to say one way or another. I want to ask you a specific one here, and you're the last person I need to tell this to, but in terms of American men, that drought that's gone since 2003, in terms of winning at the Grand Slam level since you won at the U.S. Open in 2003, what would you tell a fritz a shelton a paul tiafo tian i mean i think we have six six american men in the top 25 which is pretty incredible from a depth perspective what would you tell them in terms of the gravity of the opportunity if you'd say anything there and even i'm curious what you would say from your not only the former player perspective but your specific perspective on handling any unique pressure, if there is any there, not only going for that mantle, but also doing it kind of on quote unquote home soil where there can be an advantage to an environment maybe in New York, but also maybe added pressure there too.

18:02Andy Roddick: I'm curious, I'm curious what you think of that.

18:03Paul Ballew: I think the first point that I always try to make, especially as it pertains to this specific group is I know we've entered the part of the conversation with this stat since me and whatever else where it feels like a pass-fail course at this point. I still, the romantic and the tennis fan and the person who is interested in details, knows that six in the top 25, a bunch that have already made semis, Fritz in the final, almost everyone you've named outside of TN has made a semi of a slam and he feels like his is coming down the pipeline. It is different than it was 15 years ago when I retired as the top American and, you know, it was me or Marty and we were, you know, after I retired, I want to say one of the years Stevie Johnson was the top American, like around 30 in the world, right?

18:56Paul Ballew: So it is different and I understand it's pass fail. So, but this is the strongest group we've had to make this a legitimate conversation in my mind in a long time. And the space between the conversation and actuality is a lot. I think if I'm coaching them, I try as much as I can to say, listen, you win sets every week of your life. You win sets, you make semis, finals. We have seven matches. We have 21 sets. Let's click off three tonight. Let's click off three tonight and then so on and so forth. uh brad was gilbert my old coach was really good at that like let's just 21 sets we want it to be 18 the next time i see you right after this match and maybe simplify it a little bit more uh than you're not having to play for the last 23 years right you don't have to that's not your business that's not what you have to defend that's you know i always say like i i'm part of that too the fact that it hasn't been done in a while.

20:07Paul Ballew: Also, I would just try to simplify it. Now, the hard parts of New York are simply your mom and her cousins are coming to watch, right? Let's figure out tickets. Do you want to stay somewhere else to not deal with that interaction all the time? I chose to. I wanted to be very isolated to where I didn't even stay where my agent stayed. I stayed with my coach and my trainer and I wanted to be in a silo. Night matches are difficult, especially for prominent Americans. You might not finish until two in the morning. Let's not talk about how it sucks. Let's talk about how we deal with it. The outside pressures in getting asked this question over and over, don't lose patience because you're only going to get asked more if you give a salty answer about it.

20:52Paul Ballew: So I think just being very clear and open about what the difficulties are as opposed to avoiding them would probably be my kind of old dude advice to these guys going into it.

21:03Andy Roddick: It'd be interesting to watch. And I'm sure it'll be, you know, a topic on ESPN and other forums, you know, depending on how the draws unfold. I teased at the beginning in, I believe, Apple TV, the dink that you were in with Jake Johnson. Well, I'm a personal, my wife and I are personally big fans of from his time with New Girl and his new podcast, New World podcast, which is great. I heard him on your show a couple weeks ago. I was going to ask for a fun story from set. I don't know if you have any off the top of your head. I mostly just want to know if he's actually as cool and funny as he seems to be from the outside.

21:38Andy Roddick: But curious what that experience was like kind of dipping into the film side of things. He's exactly as you'd want him to be. He is exactly who he is on We're Here to Help.

21:49Paul Ballew: He is always like every other thing out of his face is funny. Like and then he gets into serious mode when he's trying to like I mean he was put in 16 hour days and never lost like a sense of humor. I'm a massive fan of Jake I love that he's kind of having this monster moment across a million different avenues right now I think he's one of the smartest people that I've seen you know you don't give credit to funny people for being smart a lot of the time and he is wildly smart and intelligent also the dink was fun I tried not to do it 17 times and then Stiller basically said we're at the point where we've written you in and it's too late so you'll be screwing over everyone if you don't do it.

22:35Paul Ballew: It was fun. My kids watched it. We fast-forwarded through some parts, mainly the stiller doctor scenes. And we ended it, my son was like, Dad, you were super mean in that movie. He was kind of bothered by how kind of 80s villain I was in it. But it was a really fun experience. I'm happy for Jake and everyone else involved with writing it and producing it and that it's doing well. And also I think that the lesson to project a little bit is sometimes we just want something that's kind of funny and easily clickable that we don't have to think about too much. It can just be a kind of a fun, good story.

23:19Andy Roddick: 100%. 100%. Well, with that, Andy, we so appreciate your time. Good luck with everything coming up over the next few weeks. We'll see you around New York and we'll see you on ESPN. and on the surf podcast distribution feeds and YouTube and all that great stuff. So thanks again and best of luck with everything. Appreciate you, Rob. Thank you.

23:39Rob Schaefer: All right, Rob. Great job with Andy Roddick on that interview. I am curious, you know, we've seen him transition from, you know, podcast hosts over the last couple of years to this job at Wimbledon that he debuted at earlier this summer and now at the US Open. What have you seen kind of on his career arc? What are your thoughts coming out of that conversation with Andy?

23:57Andy Roddick: Yeah, it's been interesting to follow Andy's post-playing career, right? Obviously retired in the early 2010s. I would say stepped away from the spotlight, at least the public facing, particularly on the media side of things, for quite a while. I mean, more than 10 years, save for some TV work with Tennis Channel that he talked about doing during and coming out of the pandemic. Two and a half years ago, it was when he launched his podcast, Serve, that he does with John Wertheim, longtime tennis journalist. They have on all types of guests from the tennis world. They've had Nadal on. They've had Max Eisenbud, power agent on.

24:34Andy Roddick: That was even in the early going. They have kind of the present-day players and power brokers on sporadically as well. and really analyze the sport week to week in a way that, from my seat, really going back two and a half years has filled a gap where so much of the media attention, especially in the U.S., it seems outside of broadcasters like Tennis Channel who are covering the sport week to week, focuses on the Grand Slams. Andy talked about this, how the podcast experience makes him a better TV analyst. I think that the sweat equity of putting in that work, analyzing, pumping out episodes every week of the year really showed when the ESPN opportunity came about.

25:13Andy Roddick: He signed a multi-year agreement to join them as an analyst earlier this year. He debuted at Wimbledon. As you mentioned earlier, Josh, drew rave reviews for most of the people I follow in the media journalism world and also just tennis fans that I know in my personal life. I think he brings a fresh lens in terms of being an analyst. Even having been out of the game for a long time, He clearly spends his days pouring over stats, film, whatever it might be, and brings a really unique lens from that perspective. He's personable. It doesn't feel stuffy or buttoned up with him. I think you'll see more of him obviously doing the podcast, which they've continued to lean further and further into, particularly on YouTube.

25:55Andy Roddick: But also with ESPN, you know, doing Wimbledon and the U.S. Open every year on this multi-year deal. So I think he has a real chance and ESPN has a real chance to position him as one of the faces, if not the face of their tennis coverage moving forward. And I think that would be, to reuse a word I used earlier, kind of a refreshing dynamic for the sport and, of course, ESPN's coverage of the sport. So we'll be curious if you have to use them, whether in studio or on matches during the U.S. Open. And, you know, obviously, given his history with the event, he'll have a lot of interesting perspectives.

26:26Rob Schaefer: it's it's like a perfect confluence of actors and what he's been able to do i'm a pretty casual tennis fan but i still i still love watching the majors and roddick to me is still as you mentioned 15 plus years after he retired he's still i think if you ask most you know people on the street if you said name an american tennis player a male american tennis player most are going to say andy roddick so you've got like this guy who's again the last you know american major winner he's still pretty young he's well spoken he's a fresh face like just and he's very well uh researched as you mentioned he's you know by hosting this podcast it's not like he's just coming off the bench a few times a year to do a big event like he follows this stuff day in day out he's very well educated about it and i think espn has really kind of hit a gold mine with bringing him on and it'll be interesting to see is he as you mentioned like the face of espn tennis for the next 20 years.

27:25Andy Roddick: In terms of bringing in new voices to the sport, I think he also talked about this in the interview, Josh, like the coming in with so much veteran, broad like TV talent at ESPN, the Reese Davises of the world who he worked with on Wimbledon Malik Andrews, that is going to help him even more as he's talked about this process as already being ongoing, but helping him sharpen this really, really deep encyclopedia of tennis knowledge that he has, but then direct that in a way that is not only serving the diehards who are following it every week out of the year and want to see that represented in Grand Slam coverage, but also answer questions that the more casual fan who does tune in for those events more than others might have and explain things in kind of a digestible way.

28:09Andy Roddick: I think he's shown a real knack for doing that, just watching him in the early going with ESPN. And I imagine, given how much the podcast has grown and how much he seems to have enjoyed that experience. I imagine he'll only get better with time as it relates to that.

28:26Rob Schaefer: For sure. Well, Rob, we are looking forward to see how much better Andy Roddick does get on TV, if that's possible. Again, rave reviews to this point. But thank you, Rob, for joining the show this week, talking a little U.S. Open, excited for both mixed doubles and the main draw coming up in a couple weeks. Really appreciate the time. Thanks again for joining. Thanks for having me, Josh. All right, before we sign off this week, I do want to leave you with three brief sports media observations to take away for the week. Number one, there's been a ton of discussion over the past year plus about the possibility of Disney spinning off ESPN, but the company's new CEO, Josh DeMauro, made it abundantly clear this week that that would not be happening.

29:06Rob Schaefer: DeMauro specifically pointed to strong numbers around this year's NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Final won by my Carolina Hurricanes and said anyone in the sports industry ought to be jealous of ESPN's portfolio. So it doesn't sound like an ESPN spinoff is coming. Side note, DeMauro did note that Disney has plans to bring more sports over to the Disney Plus platform in an attempt to draw in more casual viewers. Let's go to number two, MLB's Field of Dreams game. It's hard to believe it's been five years since this game made its debut. I'll admit I'm not the world's biggest baseball fan, but I was really drawn into it when it was first played in 2021.

29:44Rob Schaefer: Well, this year the game returned to Iowa, but with a twist as it aired on Netflix for the first time. And somewhat surprisingly, it averaged only 1.66 million viewers, according to the Associated Press, right around the same number for last year's Speedway Classic at Bristol. The lower numbers for Field of Dreams come after this year's home run derby, also on Netflix for the first time, had its lowest viewership since 2003. Now, next year's Field of Dreams game is moving to NBC, but you have to think Netflix's numbers around this year, as well as the Home Run Derby, will be something MLB executives will be watching closely.

30:22Rob Schaefer: Finally, new reporting from my SBJ colleague Tom Friend this week on the NBA's aggregated media hub that is expected to be in place by the 2027-2028 season. According to Friend, the NBA and YouTube remain in advanced talks for that hub that would include between 20 and 25 teams and potentially more for a price tag north of$1 billion. Industry sources are expecting either a deal or stalemate by this fall, the latter of which could open the door for platforms like DAZN, ESPN, or even Amazon. The holdup for now on a deal is around which teams exactly would be in or out on the hub. But the league does envision a year one scenario that would see games for at least 25 teams streamed at one place.

31:06Rob Schaefer: For more on that story, go check out this week's SBJ Media. Now, as we turn the calendar towards September, it's finally time for some football. The NFL consistently draws big viewership. And speaking of those viewership measurements, the NFL's Senior Vice President of Data and Analytics, Paul Ballou, joined our Austin Current to discuss that and more.

31:28Paul Ballew: Well, this time last year, right as big data was rolling out from Nielsen, the NFL was very vocal in saying that the league's audience was being underestimated here, something that might be costing the league significantly in terms of viewers, ad dollars, future rights fees. But the league did end up with its best regular season audience since 1989 with these new numbers. Now, more measurement changes are coming from Nielsen this season, including co-viewing enhancements. So to talk about how these changes are going to be impacting the Shield, We're bringing in NFL Chief Data and Analytics Officer Paul Ballew.

32:03Paul Ballew: Welcome into the Sports Media Podcast.

32:06Andy Roddick: Great to be here.

32:06Paul Ballew: All right, let's start right at the top. What's your view on the current state of media measurement?

32:12Andy Roddick: We're still on a journey. It's still a mixed bag. We certainly look at it, certainly dollars and cents, which matter, but we also look at it from an operational standpoint. Improving the accuracy of media measurement matters from that perspective as well. We want to optimize which games are on where. If we're missing something, we want to have those insights to adjust accordingly. It matters significantly for us. And when we look at where we're at, we've made some progress, as you mentioned. You think about things such as co-viewing, last year's implementation of the out-of-home changes, broadening the sample.

32:44Andy Roddick: We've personally spent a lot of time with Nielsen improving quality as well. But on the other side, we still have very significant gaps in the measurement and the accuracy of the measurement. And we're about to go forward into this season with a lot of unknowns coming from Nielsen because besides co-viewing, they're implementing a series of changes into their measurement system that ourselves and the networks and others really struggle to get our arms around. So it creates a level of uncertainty and in some cases looks like a step backwards for Nielsen, which again just complicates the equation of everything we've been working on for the last couple of years.

33:17Paul Ballew: Well, Paul, you talk about accuracy. Why is this sort of accuracy, getting it right in media measurement, so crucial, particularly for live sports like the NFL, especially with you being the leader?

33:29Andy Roddick: Well, two reasons. Number one is it's essential to have accurate data for our financial model. A big part of our revenue comes from media rights, and we want to make sure that we have accurate information as our network partners and others want as well. But then secondly, as I mentioned just a moment ago, it's essential for us from an operations standpoint. We look at measurement not just at the top line, the 18.8 million viewers or the numbers on Thanksgiving. We look at all the detail elements below it. Who's watching, demographic cuts, granular cuts, cuts in individual markets. and all of those elements are essential for us to ensure that we're broadening our reach, we're optimizing the ability for fans to consume our content.

34:10Andy Roddick: That's our goal. Our model is predicated on the fact that we have this great game and we want people to be able to see it and consume it and make sure we're doing it in a way that optimizes the fan and that equation and not having accurate measurement disrupts that as well as obviously it has ripple effects on the financial equation that the NFL and other sports leagues have with network partners.

34:31Paul Ballew: Paul, the NFL has really been outspoken on this topic. Why is it you feel that you really need to be out front on this? Because it's not something that you see leagues or properties usually getting into so publicly. And I'm talking about media measurement.

34:45Andy Roddick: Well, we think a number of factors are behind. First of all, we do have the ability to have our voice be listened to. We're an extremely important brand, very important element in the overall equation, therefore going on point, always bringing our network partners' perspectives into account. But going on point is a reflection of the fact that our voice will be listened to. So we never step away from the fact that we have a responsibility, we believe, and the fact that the shield affords us the opportunity. Secondly, the ongoing journey we've been on on media measurement has been so frustrating for so many people for so long that a few years ago we had a choice.

35:23Andy Roddick: We could have been on the sidelines and howling at windmills, or we could have jumped into this to try to systematically change the equation that was out there from a measurement perspective. And we chose to get into the tent and to invest time to see if we couldn't add into the journey everybody's on to try to improve measurement, including spending an inordinate amount of time with Nielsen. The amount of time we spent with them is to help them throughout their processes, to provide our perspective, to even help them technically on a number of different fronts. So it's a combination of all of those elements.

35:57Andy Roddick: I don't want to make us sound like we're looking for sainthood here. We're not going forward and saying we're trying to solve world hunger. It is essential to our business model, but it's the fact of who we are and what we can do to influence both technically and our brand that really prompted us to take a more active set of interests, voicing, however you want to describe it. We spent a lot of time on this topic.

36:21Paul Ballew: Well, I don't think anybody who has ever glanced at the list of the top 100, even top 200, most watched telecasts of the year on all of TV is going to argue with the NFL's importance. You guys just dominate those sorts of lists year in and year out. So NFL, clearly incredibly important. But Paul Ballou, Chief Data and Analytics Officer at the NFL, really appreciate you coming on the SBJ Sports Media Podcast.

36:41Andy Roddick: Thank you. Always great to chat. Look forward to the upcoming season. and enjoy the games.

36:45Rob Schaefer: Thanks, Austin, for that interview with Paul Ballou from the NFL. We really enjoyed it. That'll do it for this week's SBJ Sports Media Podcast. Thanks again to our guests, Andy Roddick and Paul Ballou. And a big thank you to this week's guest host, my colleague, Rob Schaefer. As always, thank you to our production team of Chris Mason, Reginald Walker, and A.C. Wyatt. And finally, thank you for listening. Please make sure to like and subscribe to the pod wherever you get your podcasts. For this week's guest host, Rob Schaefer, I'm Josh Carpenter. Have a great weekend, everyone, and we'll talk to you all again next week.