The White House's mixed messages on Iran

0:00Katy Balls: That new thing? Yeah, we've got it. The Drop by GNC, bringing you all the newness that matters. Handpicked by the pros who actually know what's up and what's proven to work. We keep you on top of the trends and dialed into what's next. Whether you're crushing it at the gym, leveling up your game, or thriving every day, The Drop by GNC is where the latest solutions in health and wellness land first. Non-stop innovation and fresh finds daily. Explore what's new and what's next on The Drop by GNC. Guys, it's no use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy John underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day.

0:39Katy Balls: There's zero chafe thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands. And their innovative horizontal quick draw fly is a game changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to TommyJohn.com today for 25 % off your first order with code COMFORT. That's TommyJohn.com slash comfort. Tommy John. Comfort perfected.

1:10Katy Balls: Hello and welcome to The State of It USA from The Times and Sunday Times podcasts. I'm Jerry Baker. I'm editor at large of The Wall Street Journal and a Times columnist. I'm here in New York City and I'm joined as ever by my colleague, Katie Balls, Washington editor for The Times and The Sunday Times. A lot to talk about this week, obviously, the war in Iran. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk, obviously, also about the extraordinary rift that seems to have opened up between the United States and the United Kingdom, with Donald Trump's remark that Keir Starmer is no Winston Churchill as a result of Starmer's, shall we say, somewhat uncertain back and forth over supporting the US in its action.

1:46Katy Balls: We're going to talk about that, the implications of that. But let's start off, though, talking about the domestic political consequences here and the domestic political reaction. It's been quite striking. I've been here many, many years. I've covered many wars. Typically speaking, once the fighting starts, the country sends to sort of rally around the leadership. We've seen that in war after war. That isn't really happening here. It's not happening at the political level. Democrats have been extremely critical of Trump's decision. Opinion polls suggest by a small margin, people disapprove of this war.

2:18Katy Balls: And the most striking thing, Katie, to me has been the reaction by some Republicans. Most elected Republicans have been very supportive, of course. But you've seen this, what might be called the sort of MAGA, the hardcore Trump crowd, who have always hated the idea of getting into foreign entanglements, have been very critical of the idea of previous wars, Iraq, Afghanistan, who note, of course, that Trump himself said these were dumb wars and the US wouldn't waste any time trying to change governments around the world. And a lot of those MAGA people have come out very critically, people like Tucker Carlson, most obviously, Megyn Kelly, who's been a staunch supporter of Trump, and others too.

2:55Katy Balls: What do you make of this what appears to be deepening rift in MAGA world? And what do you think its implications are?

3:01Gerard Baker: I think in some ways it's unsurprising because we have spoke a lot on this podcast and in articles about the prospect of Donald Trump embarking on strikes on Iran. So we had the warning signs from the base already. You've had Steve Bannon, for example, his former White House strategist, now a figure in the Magosphere saying, you know, the mission of the movement is not to make Iran great again. And the two words that send shivers down their spines tend to be regime change. And when Donald Trump announced what he was doing and started to justify his actions on Saturday, he kept talking about regime change.

3:35Gerard Baker: Now, I think if you get into the detail, his version of regime change is a little bit different than some of the versions that came before. It's more, we'll do our bit along with the Israelis, and then we're going to throw the ball your way and see what happens to the people of Iran. But there are lots of figures in the base who feel like they stood on a certain platform, which was no more foreign intervention. And this does seem to fall into that. Now, Donald Trump, I think, has never been a figure you can actually say is a pure isolationist in the way that some of his followers are. But certainly, I think there is a lot of uneasiness here in Washington, D.C.

4:13Gerard Baker: And, you know, when you go out and speak to people, it's a real mix of opinions, which is, you know, some people think, oh, he had to do it because of the nuclear weapons, the capability. He had to act now. He's taken action that former presidents don't. others criticize him for not having a wealth bought free plan saying he doesn't really know what's happening day to day on this and then there are those particularly in the MAGA base who just think he shouldn't have gone near it Marjorie Taylor Greene the former congresswoman for example saying this is not MAGA now she is a known adversary of Donald Trump so she was never going to praise him but I think there is an uneasiness even amongst his base and one of the things I think is slightly adding to the sense when no one quite knows where things are landing is not just that it has the potential to be messy.

4:53Gerard Baker: We don't know what's happening from day to day. It's that he keeps saying things to different people. So we have the president just picking up his phone to think about 20 journalists already who just ask him questions. They tend to get about 30 seconds at a time. And there's not a coherent narrative really here. And it's almost as though they're slightly trying to get one. But even Trump's top team is saying different things. And I think we can hear, for example, Marco Rubio.

5:18Katy Balls: If we stood and waited for that attack to come first before we hit them, we would suffer much higher casualties. And so the president made the very wise decision. We knew that there was going to be an Israeli action. We knew that that would precipitate an attack against American forces. And we knew that if we didn't preemptively go after them before they launched those attacks, we would suffer higher casualties and perhaps even higher those killed.

5:42Gerard Baker: And Jerry, I wonder what you made of that now. The White House furiously walked back how journalists interpreted those words, which I think was quite close to what he was saying, which was one of the reasons that they took the action on Saturday, was the sense that the Israelis were going to move. So the U.S., it was a good time for them to move with them. But now, since had Donald Trump saying actually he wanted to move first and he nudged the Israelis. But it isn't particularly clear cut when it comes to what the White House want us to know. Would you agree?

6:10Katy Balls: Yeah, the Rubio comment that we just heard was probably the one that kind of most sent many Trump supporters kind of over the top in terms of their frustration and anger with this. It did seem on its face to say we had to strike Iran because Israel was going to strike Iran and Iran was going to retaliate by hitting us. Therefore, we had to hit Iran first, which does sound as though we went in because we had to because Israel was going in, which is not something that a lot of MAGA supporters or indeed a lot of Americans these days want to hear. that they did sort of walk it back or put it into a wider context.

6:46Katy Balls: I mean, Rubio himself did say in the course of that same gaggle with reporters. And then again, the next day, no, no, you know, this wasn't the reason for going to war. We always had to do this. Iran was not going to give up on its nuclear program, was not going to give up on his ballistic missiles. We had to do this. I was just talking about the specific timing. But it's a tricky sort of tightrope to walk that. And as you say, then the concerns about regime change, which has been absolutely slammed by MAGA Republicans for the last 10 years. You know, dumb wars is what Donald Trump called them in Iraq and Afghanistan, which were regime change wars.

7:19Katy Balls: I wonder what you think about J.D. Vance. He is the kind of tribune of MAGA. He's the vice president. He's the leading contender to succeed Trump. Everybody wants to know what's going to come after Trump. Vance has been right out there on everything with Trump, as we know, from everything from Europe to immigration to everything else, trying to be more Catholic than the Pope, as it were, with Trump. There have been some interesting stories, Katie, in the last week about Vance's approach to this war. There was one report said that he was opposed to the war in principle, but if it was going to happen, the US should really sort of, you know, double down and really hit them really, really hard.

7:59Katy Balls: I mean, that's sort of talk about trying to having your cake and eat it. And it is striking he hasn't been out there in the way that, you know, you would normally expect him to be. How do you see that? Is Vance, is he trying to have it both ways? Is he, you know, trying to provide a rationale for stuff that he's always supposedly opposed? And more importantly, where does that leave him with the crowd of MAGA people who are really clearly very unhappy with this?

8:22Gerard Baker: Well, I think as vice president, he was never going to be able to say nothing, but he's choosing quite targeted interventions. So he is not giving a running commentary, as one might say, which has led some to say, why is he silent? The chief isolationist in Dove is saying nothing. But to be fair to him, he spoke to the Washington Post just before it happened, where you would imagine he had a sense of what was coming. And that was to say, whatever happens and strikes are still on the table, we're not going to end up in a situation where we have foreign wars and foreign intervention for many years or decades.

8:54Gerard Baker: He then gave a Fox News interview this week where he made similar comments.

8:58Katy Balls: There's just no way that Donald Trump is going to allow this country to get into a multi-year conflict with no clear end in sight and no clear objective. What is different about President Trump, and it's frankly different about both Republicans and Democrats of the past, is that he's not going to let his country go to war unless there's a clearly defined objective. He's defined that objective as Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon and has to commit long term to never trying to rebuild the nuclear capability.

9:25Gerard Baker: It's quite clear He's trying to play down the idea that, you know, this is going to be long running. He also, when you have some figures talking about regime change, such as the president himself, that's not the Vance line. He's talking about nuclear capabilities, the need to do it in that way. So I think he obviously has an eye on two things. He can't be disloyal to the president. There's been one report, for example, saying he didn't personally support the strikes when it was an option. But now he rose in behind the president. And notably, J.D. Vance's team have not commented on that story. Now, given the number of furious denials we tend to get from the White House and members of the administration on fake news media, particularly when, for example, they send them about 20 quotes about how great the person they're writing about is and they don't run five of the quotes and they say, you know, this is why the legacy media can't survive.

10:12Gerard Baker: I think the silence says something and at least suggests that they're not too unhappy with the idea being out there that J.D. Vance isn't the most enthusiastic member behind this intervention. but he's obviously balancing that with the sense that you can't go against this president if you want to be in his team and loyalty comes first so there's a two-prong approach going on and I suppose though Jerry if you're thinking about where this is going to go next I think one of the reasons there is this sense of many Republicans who privately have some doubts who aren't known critics of Trump they're keeping their powder fairly dry for now and it's just this view they don't really know how long it's going to go on for or what's going to happen partly because the president keeps saying he's not sure on these aspects.

10:52Gerard Baker: So it's a moving target where it feels as though it's pretty foggy in some ways of where it's going to go next.

11:00Katy Balls: Yeah, I just spoke to a Republican who's very much associated with MAGA the other night. He said oil prices up, market down, economy deteriorating, US casualties mounting, and we're supposed to be America first. And again, as we say, it is this weird kind of desultory running through the whole process and the contradictions and the inconsistencies. We're taking out the nuclear facilities. Well, I thought we took out the nuclear weapons last year. We are calling on the Iranians to change the regime, but we're not actually going to do anything to help them actually deliver that. We are supposedly helping Israel, but we're not actually doing it because of Israel.

11:39Katy Balls: were doing it because the US, you know, Trump saying, I know who I want to replace Ayatollah Khamenei, who was, of course, killed in that strike last weekend. And then hours later saying, oh, well, the guy I wanted to replace him was also killed.

11:53Gerard Baker: I liked it when he said, well, let's see who they're going to replace him with. You know, they might just call me and ask me who I like most. And it does hit on this thing I keep hearing, which is, oh, well, he's been inspired by Venezuela. This is a bit like Venezuela. And of course, it's quite hard to imagine, really, other than, of course, if we're going for the son of the Shah, who's going to emerge for this regime change that is going to want to play ball with Donald Trump in the way that he is talking about. And of course, again, we have no indication yet that the son of the Shah, who lives in Maryland, so it's nearby in theory, is the one.

12:29Katy Balls: Yeah, I mean, one thing we can be certain is it won't be as in Venezuela, a woman. The next Supreme Leader of Iran will not be like that. But, I mean, there is a contrast, this contrast between the power, the efficiency, frankly, let's be honest, the awesome might of the American military machine and the kind of bizarre ineptitude, inconsistency of the people at the top, it seems to me, the political leadership. Because we should say, again, this has been a remarkable campaign, once again, demonstrating U.S. fire and Israeli, of course, firepower. They have been very effective. I mean, there have been American casualties, obviously, tragically, a handful of deaths so far.

13:11Katy Balls: And Trump keeps warning that there will be more. But it is, you know, the damage that they are seemingly able to inflict, you know, with these extraordinary technical capabilities and extraordinary bravery of the of the American and Israeli forces is remarkable. But then they have this leadership that just doesn't seem to quite understand or at least is not able to communicate what they're trying to do. But I think I think one thing that Trump has done here clearly is that he has set his own objectives. Right. And and objectives that are not, if I may say, sort of objectively measurable. Right.

13:46Katy Balls: Enabling him to say at some point in a week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, mission accomplished, job done. we've massively degraded Iran's ballistic missile capability we've massively depleted their nuclear capabilities the regime is back in its box it's not going to threaten its neighbors it's not going to kill any more Americans I now declare mission accomplished and we've won and I think that's going to define the way in which this war ultimately ends.

14:13Gerard Baker: Yeah I was I think it's I think if we're looking for those who are very positive about what Donald Trump has done I was at dinner last night and I was sat next to a figure who'd worked in the Department of Defense as an advisor during the Bush administration. And this group aren't always the most pro the Trump regime. But he was saying he's done the right thing. Previous presidents have refused to do this. And someone had to grasp the issue because what happens otherwise? And perhaps the argument was to by not being front and center the whole time of these official press conferences, it's less saying we're changing the country forever and saying we're doing our bit now.

14:48Gerard Baker: and then we can set the terms and what we say a successful operation is. Though I think if you were doing that, maybe you wouldn't give about 30 mini interviews in the space of two days. Anyway, after the break, we'll be back with the other aspect of all this, which is the UK-US relationship, because amongst those interviews and in Donald Trump's appearances, such as the Oval Office this week, he's had a fair bit to say about Keir Starmer and how he believes the Prime Minister has let him down.

15:19Katy Balls: That new thing? Yeah, we've got it. The Drop by GNC, bringing you all the newness that matters. Handpicked by the pros who actually know what's up and what's proven to work. We keep you on top of the trends and dialed into what's next. Whether you're crushing it at the gym, leveling up your game, or thriving every day. The Drop by GNC is where the latest solutions in health and wellness land first. Non-stop innovation and fresh finds daily. Explore what's new and what's next on The Drop by GNC. Guys, it's no use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy John underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day.

15:58Katy Balls: There's zero chafe thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands. And their innovative horizontal quick-draw fly is a game changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to TommyJohn.com today for 25 % off your first order with code COMFORT. That's TommyJohn.com slash comfort. Tommy John, comfort perfected.

16:24Katy Balls: Welcome back. Not, I think it's fair to say, a good week for the special relationship. Here's what Donald Trump said about the British government. This is not Winston Churchill that we're dealing with. I will say the UK has been very, very uncooperative with that stupid island that they have. So Katie, you've been spending some time with British officials this week. That must have been a pretty stinging remark. I mean, I don't think it's the most challengeable things that Donald Trump has ever said. With all due respect to the Prime Minister, I don't think even his closest friends would put him up there with Winston Churchill.

17:01Katy Balls: But it sounds pretty bad.

17:02Gerard Baker: Yeah, as you say, I think there are plenty of people in the UK who would agree that Keir Starmer is not akin to Winston Churchill. But the context of how he said this, which is a row about an initial refusal by the UK to let the US use bases for strikes on Iran. the UK side say this was a hypothetical question at the time and once action was taken by the US along with the Israelis on Saturday they then obviously changed position and they gave permission to use the bases for defensive strikes still not quite what had been asked originally by the US but a development in the policy and now the UK is aiding the US in a way that I think if you speak to you know figures in the in the defence world will say is impactful perhaps more so than some or the other European countries.

17:49Gerard Baker: However, this has not particularly pleased the Donald. You have the US president really now on several occasions voicing his unhappiness. And I think the British embassy perhaps have a bit of bad luck in terms of when they have their events. I think on the last podcast, we spoke about the welcome for the new ambassador on the day that Peter Madison was arrested and interviewed under caution. Yesterday, he had his second big event, and this was a British food event with the DEFRA secretary in town that again there was a slight elephant in the room and the ambassador going around putting a brave face on things and I mean I did say to a few of the administration figures there you know people who work for various secretaries of state I said you know oh you know guys don't seem to like us very much at the moment like oh no no you know these things come and go and it will pass which might be them being good guests because they were enjoying you know British spirits British wine but also I think that there's certainly a playing down from some I've spoken to both in the US side here in DC and back home that they don't think this is a permanent severing of relations but certainly I wonder if Keir Starmer is at the very least getting into Theresa May territory in terms of how Donald Trump treats him because we know Donald Trump loves the UK for his own reasons and we're never really Keir Starmer they've managed to have a surprisingly good relationship.

19:10Gerard Baker: But ultimately, Donald Trump loves the monarchy and he loves his Scottish mother. And he inherited his love from the monarchy from his Scottish mother, watching her watch the coronation. That's why the state visits are used very successfully by the government previously. But it feels as though there was surprise in Maga World for a long time that Keir Starmer got on so well with Donald Trump and vice versa. I remember interviewing Steve Bannon last year. And this was around how Mandelson had left. They didn't have a replacement yet. And I said, well, who would be good? Do we need a MAGA friendly person?

19:40Gerard Baker: And he said, no, you should just get a technocrat because the relationship between Keir Starmer and Donald Trump is so good. You don't really need anyone getting in between it. And it feels as though, you know, Donald Trump changes his mind on people. It could come back. But certainly I'm reminded more of that May era where he would, you know, criticize her, make life quite difficult in terms of her positions. and it comes at the same time that I think Keir Starmer's government is taking on a slightly more leftward feel.

20:08Katy Balls: Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all, Trump, you know, is fickle and changes from one month to the next. I wouldn't be too alarmed by this if I were Keir Starmer. I think Keir Starmer's got lots of other things to be alarmed about. This is another headache, but I don't really think that's going to be a problem. And the fact that now the UK is there, And the other thing that Americans always have is tremendous regard for Britain's military and intelligence capabilities. And I'm no doubt whatsoever that certainly intelligence and to some extent military activity by the British at the moment is being very helpful to the United States.

20:43Katy Balls: And I think that will quickly help to cut to clear that up. So I suspect the damage is not really not really lasting. I think the larger question is, where do you want to be? Do you want to be close to this very fickle, unpredictable Donald Trump who, you know, as you say, on the one hand, waxes lyrical about his mother and Scotland and the king and on the other hand, you know, talks about invading Greenland and, you know, describing England as a country of Sharia law. So it's tough for him. It's obviously tough. He's got his political problems with his own backbenchers. This war is undoubtedly not popular at all.

21:20Katy Balls: The Israel dimension with obviously a lot of the Labour voters and indeed a lot of British voters generally will not be popular. So it's, you know, it's a really difficult thing to handle. I think, you know, it survived worse moments than this. Suez was undoubtedly worse than this. Periods during, you know, the run up to the Iraq war were probably worse than this. And I think it'll survive this one too.

21:41Gerard Baker: And I think just the other aspect, which makes it a little bit different, perhaps, from some of those previous crises when it comes to the special relationship is the MAGA movement. And the fact that you do have all these people behind Donald Trump who take a very active interest in the UK. So this is why I don't think they're ever really going to fully cast aside the UK. They see, I was speaking to one figure close to these people who was talking about, almost they have an ancestral yearning for the UK. And they also see the UK as the beginning. So therefore, when they think things are going wrong in the UK, you mentioned how Donald Trump keeps claiming Sharia law.

22:16Gerard Baker: You know, when they talk about freedom of speech, since I've moved to DC, I even had it this weekend when I made my debut in Palm Beach and went to a polo match. And they're saying, oh, are you allowed to tweet in your country? When I was in London for the state visit, I was in the hotel with the White House Press Corps. And I had some figures in it say, can I walk around in the evening? And this hotel was in Mayfair. So I think there is a view of the UK which doesn't chime. And in a way, Trump has been the Anglophile, the person who has been the warmest to the UK. And others, even like J.D. Vance, they like us, they holiday with us, but they would like to be more interventionist.

22:51Gerard Baker: The State Department sends figures to the UK on fact-finding missions. And therefore, I wonder if some of those other voices might get a bit louder in terms of critiquing the UK. And they're already pretty loud.

23:01Katy Balls: It's an interesting point, Katie, the way in which caricatures and stereotypes endure. I just think that, back to the poor ambassador, we talked about this last week, that, you know, as you say, he had his Mandelson thing last week, and then he's got this special relationship rupture this week. And as we talked about last week, we've still got the Mandelson files to be released with all of that information. So, yeah, good. He's really earning. He's earning his not very substantial government salary right now. So good luck to him.

23:29Gerard Baker: I should say, finally, I have my Times colleague Fraser Nelson in my house. Ah, right. Fraser, can you give us your one minute summary of your experience of DC so far?

23:38Katy Balls: Well, I guess it's another planet here. I mean, you know, I was speaking to an official at the embassy party last night who was saying it's like being in the court of a kind of medieval king, you know. And one bad word doesn't necessarily mean rupture. Zelensky was given a massive dressing down and after that he was given support. So, you know, I guess it's the old joke about taking him literally but not seriously. But I think the more serious point is just how little help Britain is able to give, even if it wanted to right now. I think the takeaway here is not so much the kefafal over where Americans were able to use their only airbase in Europe for this, which they initially weren't and then were.

24:17Katy Balls: It's that when Britain did want to mobilize what we had one ship barely able to send into the Mediterranean. So this tests, you know, alliances are tested in moments like this and Britain wasn't particularly willing, but certainly isn't able. I suspect that will have a longer repercussions beyond what was said in the Oval Office. Yeah, I'm sure that's ultimately the more important implication of all this. And I suspect Donald Trump will be happily supping with Keir Starmer again and presumably Keir Starmer's successor at some point. But one just brief thing we did want to quickly touch on. Last week we talked about the we're into election season now here in the United States.

24:58Katy Balls: Big midterm elections in November that in many ways will determine the fate of the rest of the Trump administration. we're into primary season now with parties select their candidates for the general election in uh in november and they're starting we've got this we mentioned this last week there's a big one uh that happened last night from texas and interesting results on both sides setting up potentially a really interesting result there's senate race now again for those who aren't following that closely this texas senate race could be absolutely critical texas has been held by republicans for decades.

25:29Katy Balls: Democrats have come close on a number of occasions, but never quite got over the line. There is a real possibility that they could do so this year. And if they did, it would, at the moment, it doesn't look like the Republicans will lose the Senate. But if they were to lose Texas, it would put the Senate really in place. It's an absolutely pivotal, pivotal election. We had primaries last night. Tell us what happened, Katie, and what your thoughts are.

25:50Gerard Baker: So one clear result, which was on the Democrat side, James Tallarico triumphed over Jasmine Crockett. Now, Jasmine Crockett, as we spoke about last week on the podcast, was much more seen on the progressive wing, more along with the AOCs of this world. And she was running a campaign which is very anti-Trump, very, you know, take the fight. And I think it's where James Tallarica was seen as compared to her a bit more of a moderate. I hate the word moderate because it means everything to everyone. But what was really interesting about his campaign was how he combined faith and his Christianity with his message in a way that I think in recent years, at least, you know, the Republicans have really, you know, lent the most into that.

26:31Gerard Baker: And he triumphed quite comfortably. And he particularly did well amongst Hispanic voters. But I think there's also just a feeling that he perhaps was in a better position when it comes to the general public to do well. And therefore, it makes who the Republicans pick even more interesting, because the Republicans are now in a runoff between John Cornyn and Ken Paxton. And Ken Paxton is the mega candidate. And the concern amongst some Republicans is I think if Ken Paxton gets it, that's going to give a Democrat, particularly Tallarico now it's confirmed, the edge and finally mean that the state could go blue.

27:06Katy Balls: Well, we'll see. I had a really interesting conversation with a very senior Republican strategist last week about this. As you say, the runoff is between John Cornyn, who is the incumbent Republican senator, has been the senator for 16 years, 18 something, something a long time. He's a member of Republican leadership, so he's a very prominent figure. He's not hostile to Trump at all. He's been sort of gone along with MAGA. But as you say, Ken Paxton, his opponent, is a red in tooth and claw MAGA guy. I had a really interesting conversation with a very senior Republican close to Cornyn, who thinks that actually Trump, who hasn't endorsed yet, will now in this runoff, this head to head between Cornyn and Paxton, Trump will be prevailed upon to endorse Cornyn, which will be it's going to be a really interesting call that because if he were to endorse Paxton, I mean, it would be a real slap in the face to a very prominent Republican senator who has not been hostile to Trump, as we say, unlike some others.

27:57Katy Balls: And so that will be fascinating if he does, because I think because the Republican Party in Texas is terrified that Paxton and we talked a little bit about Paxton has a Paxton has an extra Paxton is a sort of a walking scandal sheet. I mean, he's got so many, so many skeletons in his will. They're not in his closet anymore. The skeletons are sort of jangling down the road with him wherever he goes from, you know, affairs, personal affairs, very messy breakup with his wife to allegations of corruption. And the Democrats now having picked the kind of, as you say, this moderate, interesting sort of Bible quoting young guy, Tallarico, there is a real risk there that if the Republicans do select Paxton in this primary, that they could lose that seat.

28:41Katy Balls: And so Trump is going to get a lot of pressure from Republicans in Texas right now to come out and endorse Cornyn, which could be critical. And that runoff happens at the end of May. Anyway, that's good. Great to talk. Great to have Fraser with a cameo appearance. Great to see you again, Katie. and look forward to next time. Thank you for joining us. Goodbye.

29:03Katy Balls: That new thing? Yeah, we've got it. The Drop by GNC, bringing you all the newness that matters, handpicked by the pros who actually know what's up and what's proven to work. We keep you on top of the trends and dialed into what's next. Whether you're crushing it at the gym, leveling up your game or thriving every day, The Drop by GNC is where the latest solutions in health and wellness land first. non-stop innovation and fresh finds daily. Explore what's new and what's next on The Drop by GNC. Guys, it's no use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy John Underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day.

29:42Katy Balls: There's zero chafe thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands. And their innovative horizontal quick-draw fly is a game changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to TommyJohn.com today for 25 % off your first order with code comfort. That's TommyJohn.com slash comfort. Tommy John, comfort perfected.