#88: Build a Personal Brand to Beat the Trust Recession with Laura Higgins

0:00Why in the world do you even try to build a personal brand? I don't know if you've noticed, but any platform where you hang out, it is flooded with AI. Most people are producing AI slop. It feels like, oh my gosh, ChatGPT wrote this, or Claude designed that. It doesn't look that good. It doesn't feel that good. It all starts to feel the same. And so I think the only way we can beat that is we can't be in the messy middle, the vanilla spot where everyone else is. and I think in the age of AI, our point of difference is that we are human. The thing that gives you an edge is your perspective, it's your story, it's like the way you view and see the world and for so many business owners, especially the creatives that I work with, a big piece of their point of difference is their taste, their style, their vibe, what they like, what they don't like.

0:46But I think a lot of the time we can hide behind the company name or we can hide behind the logo and be like, I'm going to speak in the royal we and I'm not going to put myself out there because I don't want to get criticized, because I don't want to be the face of my brand. But if you want to cut through in this day and age, in the age of AI, a personal brand is the biggest piece of leverage you can build. You're listening to the StoryBrand podcast based on Donald Miller's bestselling book, Building a StoryBrand. The StoryBrand framework is made up of seven key elements, all of them anchored in one powerful idea.

1:22Your customer is the hero and you are their guide. Each week on the podcast, you'll get exactly what you need to craft clear messaging that connects with more customers and grows your business. Now let's dive in with your host, Donald Miller.

1:42Our guest today is Laura Higgins. We're going to talk about how to build a personal brand. And I have personally watched Laura's rise. She is a seven-figure business coach, has thousands of creatives, photographers, designers following her, keynote speakers sought after all over the world. And we're going to learn a thing or two about how to build a brand before you get so big that you won't even come on this podcast. I think that's the goal. Laura, great to have you with us. Thank you for having me. This is going to be fun. I know how my life has changed since I've built a personal brand. How has your life changed for the better?

2:14I mean, what's the motivation to do it? I mean, it's more important to stand out from AI, but why do it in the first place? Like a lot of people, they like their privacy. They don't want to put themselves out there. What's the motivation to actually, what do you get out of it? Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, I've been running my business since 2017. So almost 10 years now. My first few years of running the business, I was running an agency. Like a marketing agency? Yeah. Yeah. So I ran that under a different name. It was called Lala Social Club. It was, I was kind of the face of it, but it was also, there was a team and it was, it was not my name.

2:50As soon as I changed to my name in 2023, I decided, okay, I'm going to, I'm a business coach now. I like my business model has changed. People actually buy coaches, right? They don't actually buy from a brand per se. They're actually buying you. And so when I realized that I was like, actually, I need to show up as the founder in the face of this. And so you don't have to make it your name, but I think when it is your name, when it is your face, it's an easier connect, right? Because it's like, cool, I'm talking with Donald Miller and you are the founder of StoryBrand. You have immediate authority.

3:27Yeah. I remember asking Dave Ramsey this, who's built a brand based on him and it's a massive brand. But I also know he's tried to launch other personalities. He tries to get this thing. And I wondered if he regretted it. I wondered if like, do you regret building the brand? He said, absolutely not. He said a brand without a person at the top of it, who's public is like a brand without a soul. It's very hard to connect with and it's much harder to build. It was interesting to me that he didn't regret at all, you know, building the brand around himself. And obviously he makes a lot of money. Yeah.

4:01Well, apparently, you know, so, and, but the other thing is, you know, probably maybe once a week or something, I get just these delightful encounters where somebody comes up and says, Hey, not to bother you, but thanks for your books or things. None of that is the books. That's all Instagram and YouTube, you know, because if you read my book, you don't know what I look like. And I think there's a familiarity there and familiarity breeds trust and trust creates orders. So you can actually spend hours with somebody without ever even meeting them and that you have their trust in whatever it is that you're going to put out later.

4:39It's, it's, I mean, gosh, it's got to be a thousand percent increase in just orders because people are familiar with who you are. 100 % and we're seeing this across multiple different industries too it's not just in service-based or a coaching industry in product-based businesses e-com brands with a face where the founder is talking to their customers like when else have we ever had that kind of access where people can see what you're doing in a day and they can see your home or feel connected to you and I think we underestimate the value of that and if I think about you I was thinking about your personal brand before we had this conversation.

5:19As someone who followed you for a long time, I knew things about you that made me like you. So I knew, okay, he's got great taste. Like I loved seeing how you did your studio setup. It was like, cool. He really invests in beautiful things. There's a little Enneagram 4 vibes. You know what I mean? So like I knew these things about you and even seeing Goose Hill and the house and seeing like Betsy, Emmeline, these parts of your family, they actually all build a picture of who Don is and why I should work with you and why I should want to be around you. And so even though those things don't directly make me go, oh, he has like, I love his style.

6:01I love how he's done his house. I love his taste in music. That doesn't make me go, okay, I'm going to click now and buy from you. But they all build a picture that make me trust you and make me feel like, oh, cool. I kind of know Don. So when I'm thinking of, okay, I need to sort out my messaging, you're at the top of the list because I feel connected to you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I think, you know, again, going back to the reason people buy from you or from your brand is because they trust you and just being known, especially if you have some sort of common ground, or if I find somebody online and they think like I think, then all of a sudden I'm going, okay, whatever this person recommends, they recommend a restaurant, I'm going to go fight with.

6:51What do you need to do to get started? If there's somebody listening to this podcast and they're saying, okay, this is the fifth time I've heard this, feels like I'm being nudged here. You got nothing. You got an iPhone, you got an Instagram account. Walk me through just how you get started building a personal brand. Yeah, and I think a lot of people equate building a personal brand with being an influencer. And so the first thing you need to know is that you do not have to show your outfit of the day. Don, I'd love to see you do that. No, but you don't have to do that. You don't have to be an influencer.

7:24You don't have to show your family if you don't want to. And so actually taking the pressure off to begin with, you get to choose what you show. Right. So I think being really strategic on - Did you sit down with a list and say, here's, you know, I remember because we have StoryBrand Instagram account. We have CoachBuilder Instagram account. We have my personal one. StoryBrand is all about messaging and marketing. CoachBuilder is about building coaching business. My personal Instagram account is about some of that and also my family and just kind of put myself out there as a human. Yeah. But we actually sat down and said, OK, here's the things we want to highlight.

8:04You know, family man, businessman, messaging guy. That's kind of it. And we just said, OK, everything has to fit into one of these three categories before we put it online. Yeah. There's things that I want to talk about my 1978 FJ40 or whatever. And it's like, no, that's not we're not going there. Let's do something else. and it's worked out pretty fantastic. But we did have some parameters and it made it easier. In terms of content creation, you say, well, I can talk about this because we've decided this is the part of my personality we want to show online. Yeah, and I think knowing what you don't want to show as a first step is really valuable.

8:40The second thing I would say is I think we can kind of sanitize our personality. We can take our edges off because we're worried about what people will think will clients resonate with this will they not and i don't know if you follow rick rubin but i i think i do because he shows up enough on my feed you would he would be a great podcast guest for you but he talks about the idea of you know when we create we it's like so counterproductive because when we're a marketer we're thinking about the customer we're always thinking okay how can i create with the customer in mind but he talks about if we want to create something truly beautiful and magnetic.

9:20We actually need to create first from a place of, well, what do I want to talk about? And what's resonant for me right now? What are you passionate about? Yeah. And so a lot of the time we don't actually know what that is. And so I would encourage anyone listening, sit down, put a like 10 minute timer on your phone, put all like any distractions away, Slack, email, like put it all away and just get your notes app or get a piece of paper and just splurge your thoughts and just go, okay, here's what I'm thinking today. I'm not going to edit myself. I'm not going to like try to make this perfect.

9:56I'm just here to splurge and think about, okay, what are my clients asking me right now? What are the things I'm frustrated by right now? What are the things that I'm excited by? And just start to build the muscle of actually reflecting on what's in you already rather than looking outward. Oh, this trend's cool. I should do this or, you know, I should talk about this. I should do, here's how to use Claude in three steps. Like you don't have to do that. Actually starting with, all right, I know what I don't want to talk about. Now I just need to actually unlock what's already in me, what I'm already, what I'm already kind of stewing on.

10:35And I just need to build the habit and the muscle of splurging on that and seeing what comes out. Because I think - What do you say to somebody who's a perfectionist and they, you know, I have friends who want to write a book or you know do all these things and they they literally can't do it because they're such a perfectionist about the way they're coming off when the reality is they are so freaking interesting that if you just put a camera in their face without prompting them they would actually probably have an enormous brand and what do you say to somebody who's just sort of wired that way i think this is this is probably where the rick rubin thing is interesting because we have to detach the outcome from it.

11:13And I think in social media, we can go, oh, this post popped off. I should do something else like that. And the posts that do pop off are often from a place, I know for me, they're from a place where it's like, I'm ranting about something or I'm like, oh, I had this conversation with a client today and here's what I talked them through. And here's what I think would be helpful for you. And it's resonant. It like feels like it's fresh. It's from like something that's sitting like right here that I'm like, cool, I've got to talk about this. And I think when it comes from a place of, oh, I've got to do content.

11:47I've got to show up. I've got to create this thing. They told me I should do this three steps to X, Y, Z. When we create from that place, it doesn't resonate. And then we don't get the result and then we stop doing it. And so it creates this loop of, well, that didn't work. I didn't enjoy it. And I didn't get the results anyway so why why should i keep doing that and so as a perfectionist it can feel really challenging to even when you're producing content to not make it slick and polished and beautiful there's a movement sort of against that it's almost like the slicker it gets and we've spent a bunch of money on sets and now it's like yeah don't use a set just sit in your car i'm like that would have been a lot cheaper i wish i knew that yesterday exactly 100 and i think it's Easier than ever.

12:32Yes. Yeah. And so, but it's funny, it's easier than ever, but there's still not a lot of people doing it. Yeah. And that says something about this resistance that we feel and this fear of, well, what if I look silly? Or what if that person from high school that I haven't seen in two decades is like, oh, who do they think they are? It's like, why do you care about that person? We actually need to think about it like I'm sitting across from my ideal client and I'm having a conversation with them about, hey, this is what I'm working on right now. This is what I'm really passionate about right now.

13:06This is the problem you probably have. And here's why that sucks. And here's a way to move forward. And so I think when we take the pressure off and we don't look at, like, sometimes we can also look at everyone else and be like, oh, Don's doing this or Hormozy's doing this or whoever, and look at all these people and try to do it like them. But the problem is it's kind of like wearing shoes that are the wrong size. It's like, oh, if I try to be Hormozy, it's not going to feel good. it's not going to feel aligned for me or for my audience because they just want to hear my perspective. I think there's something psychological and it was true when I was only writing books.

13:50The books that I enjoyed writing the most and the books that honestly sold the best were books when I wasn't trying to be somebody different. And really what I mean by wasn't trying to be somebody different was trying to be somebody better than who I actually was. And there, there, there's this sort of mantra that I have to tell myself before creating content of like, Hey, if you try to, if you try to be John Steinbeck, you're going to look like a fool. You are not as good as John Steinbeck. You never will be as good as John Steinbeck. Let it go and settle for the talents you have and go for it.

14:29And when I tell myself that it just like, it's just so easy to go, I don't have to win the Super Bowl here. I just have to, you know, I just have to show up to be myself and my audience, my small little audience will love it. But look, I'm 54 years old. I'm still having to tell myself that to not give into the temptation to go and try to be somebody that I'm not. Yeah. And I think, I think that the other thing I would say is that it's very helpful if when you try to build this personal brand, it's helpful to take the expectations off and go, cool, what if I just showed up like I was sitting across from my person having coffee with them?

15:08How would that person show up? What would they need from me today? And I think when it comes from a place of service and less about what results can I get and who else can I imitate, we're more magnetic when we're like that. And so you trying to be John Steinbeck versus you being Donald Miller you are way more magnetic when you are just yourself oh I don't know I think if I was John Steinbeck I'd be more magnetic I hold to that I just can't do it I don't have the talent but it's it's this interesting thing that people who people who are themselves are incredibly magnetic and it's just an extremely hard thing to do it's easier to do it's easier to do with you when you're with friends or loved ones but as soon as you put a camera on or sit in front of a computer and try to write something you try to be somebody you're not it's just crazy i also found that for me when i was starting out and i still struggle with this sometimes is like a camera would come on and i'd i'd put like my voice would change no i just like i had like a weird performer voice and and like my team would be like okay laura let's do that again just ditch that weird voice you're doing i'm like okay i love that you have that team I love that they would tell you.

16:17That says a lot about you that your team would be able to criticize you and you don't take it personally. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, no, you're right. I did have that weird performer voice. But I think like the other thing is if you think about these brands, I really admire Taylor Swift. I think, gosh, she's built an incredible brand. I think of her as like this beautiful mix of artist and entrepreneur CEO. And she just has this balance of these two things that can sometimes be in opposition with one another. but the weird things about Taylor Swift are what make her fans obsessed with her. Like she showed up to do the time, the cover of time magazine.

16:55And she was like, can I bring my cats? And so she has her cats in the photo shoot on the cover of time magazine. So like weird little quirks about her are actually what make her endearing and likable. And whether or not you love or hate her, it doesn't really matter either way. her brand has an impact on you and it's, it either attracts you or it repels you. That is what a good brand does. And so I think the mistake a lot of people make is that they, they don't want to repel and in not repelling, they also don't attract. Yeah. Because they're so worried about, well, people won't like me. And it's like, well, the right people won't love you unless you're prepared to actually.

17:38it you yeah that's probably a big reason that so many people don't do it is you just can't put yourself out there in any way without without inviting criticism and you're just gonna get it and people online are just they're so mean uh but i have noticed that the the posts if you will that i put out that do really well are are the most loved and hated they're not just the most yeah Yeah. It's fascinating to me. Yes. And people who don't or who have sort of a thick skin about that, Taylor Swift included, they go the farthest. Yeah. They're fascinating to me. Yeah. I think, and you touched on a really good point, and this is, again, what I think about what builds this.

18:24We've got the like little idiosyncrasies, the things about you that aren't necessarily tied to your business, but they make you you. So your example of your home, of your family, of your taste and your style, those are all like they kind of sit on the periphery of, well, the core business is this. But these things make us more likable. They make us more endearing and they make people lean in and feel like, oh, I'm friends with you. So that's great. But then on the business front, when we're thinking about, well, what content could we produce that will give me an edge? one of the simplest piece of content that you can produce is a hot take, which is a piece of content that is like responding to somebody else's content.

19:06Yeah. Yeah. Responding to someone else's or going, Hey, here's something weird that I believe in relation to your service. Here's something weird that I believe. Um, and I'm going to tell you why. An example for me is I did a post where I was like, and again, my, my audience are creatives and typical, like people pleases, struggle sending invoices, struggle like charging for their worth, all these things. And I was like, Hey, here's what I did. When I had my agency, I set up a fake employee and there was Steve from accounts who would chase the people for the invoices. I always made it a mail that chased the people for invoices because I didn't want to do that.

19:42So like Steve from accounts is like pestering for the invoices. And then I had Nancy who would be like, Hey, you haven't signed your contract. Like Nancy was like doing all the onboarding stuff and it was all via email, right? It's good cop, bad cop. Yeah. And then I was just the talent, even though I was Steve and I was Nancy, right? Did you ever pretend to be Steve when you were on the phone? No, no, they couldn't call Steve. They couldn't call Steve. They couldn't have a meeting. If they ever wanted to meet Steve, I'd be like, oh, he's out of town. He's always out of town. I don't know. Anyway.

20:11He's pestering somebody for money. He's just a baseball bat trying to chase someone for money. But it was funny because I just thought, oh, this is what creative people do. Like we hate conflict. We hate asking for money. And the percentage of people that were like, the large majority were like, Laura, this is brilliant. I'm so happy. I'm going to steal that. Or I already do that. I love it. And then there was this loud minority that were like, you are unethical. How dare you pretend to be Steve from accounts? And initially I was like, oh I didn't realize this would rub people the wrong way and but people really got upset about it and I was like oh maybe I should turn the comments off or maybe I should delete this and I went no no I'm gonna keep it and it's had over a million views from that one post like we got this negative a bit of negative pushback but I got over a 9 ,000 new followers from that one post Can I give you my theory?

21:07Tell me. It was vulnerability. Yeah. You shared something that people could use against you. There's an artist named David Wilcox. I don't even know if he tours anymore. He was a singer-songwriter. And he was asked, why are you so vulnerable in your music? And he said, it's a strategic move. And he said, when I share with you something that you can use with which to hurt me, I am handing you a gun. And if I'm handing you a gun, you have power over me. Therefore, you perceive me as safe. And we've connected. I've trusted you with something that I wouldn't trust with anybody who I didn't respect and admire and trust.

21:54And he said, of course, some people misuse that trust, but the ones who don't connect with you. Yeah, that's amazing. And he's built his career connecting with people. And I listened to that interview. when I wrote my second book, Blue Like Jazz, I shared that I was a bedwetter until like seven or eight years old. I remember this. And I put it in there. It was in the first few paragraphs of the book. I put it in there and I deleted it. Put it in there, deleted it. Put it in there, deleted it. Heard that interview and put it in there and left it. And that book ended up being one of the best-selling books I've ever written.

22:28And it was a strategic decision to say, okay, if you're going to spend time with me, I'm going to give you something right away that you can use literally to make fun of me. That, by the way, would hurt if you did it. First of all, nobody ever did it. I never showed up at Booker and went, bedwetter. You know, that never happened. Sign my book, bedwetter. Did you wash your hands? Yeah, I don't know that. But it was like a decision. And I also think like even that's an extreme example probably of vulnerability. But if you think about some of the Anne Lamott and some of these authors, they're so freaking vulnerable.

23:06Yeah. They just put themselves out there and they take a beating, but they also connect with people in this really incredible way. Do you ever wonder why some marketing instantly grabs your attention while other marketing you just ignore? It's not about luck. It's not about a bigger budget. it's that the marketing that works actually follows just a few simple principles that actually makes it easier to understand, makes it memorable, and most important, impossible to overlook. That's why StoryBrand has a free guide, the four rules of messaging that will teach you those principles. In just a few minutes, you'll have a simple framework for evaluating every message you create from your website and emails to your ads and sales conversations.

23:48Download your free copy of those four rules today by clicking the link in the show notes. I actually recently shared last year I went through this massive season of burnout. And as a business coach, I felt really like, oh, like I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be burnt out. I should be fine. And I should be able to carry all this and have the capacity. I should be fine. And like my, I can't tell my clients because then they'll be like, oh, we don't know about her. Like, is she, is she legit if she's, if she's actually burnt out and like crying every morning and struggling to do her job. And I got through that season and ended up sharing on my podcast.

24:26I was like, Hey, like I haven't been able to talk about this cause I haven't been through it. And I wanted to make sure I had something valuable to share, but this is where, this is where I've been. And I really didn't want to share that podcast. Like everything in me was like, like can't you do it in a way that's a bit more glossy that kind of like skims over it and it's like anyway I'm back and I'm good now and here's like five key tips or whatever but it was like messy and raw and and like I cried in it and I'm like sitting in my studio recording me being like with snot you know what I mean like it was not it was not like a glistening tear it was like no this was actually really painful but the when I did share that and everything in me didn't want to but I knew that it was important because I knew that actually this will connect with it's not just about um the vanity metrics of oh well this will be engaging content it was actually like no I don't want to share this but I think this is going to be really valuable for the person who I serve who is probably going through that or may go through it at some point and to see someone be real about it not in a glossy way but actually like in kind of a real and raw way it makes people lean in and the response to that was like I had so many messages from people being like I felt exactly the same as you I felt really seen by you like you I would never have known blah blah blah but the thing for that was I think it's a good lesson and like your bedwetting story if there's something that you you write out and then you delete it because you're a bit afraid it's like okay that's actually a good litmus test of something you should explore and obviously you want to be vulnerable in a safe way yeah you don't want to air your dirty laundry but no um or too much of it because that gets exploitative for sure but i think if i think if look if it embarrasses you a little bit it's probably gold yeah it's probably gold and you know and i think like don online there is so much there's so much like look at me content yeah and that's what i think people go oh a personal brand equals i've got to be on a private jet or have a lamborghini or this type of content that's really showy or i've got to do this fake vulnerability and I've got to like post myself crying on Instagram to get attention.

26:56And I think you don't need to do either of those things. You can share what's not working. You can share what you're working on. You can share your wins. You can share your losses. And all of those things actually make you more believable. And we are in, we've all heard it said, but we are in a trust recession where trust is such a high value thing. And if you build trust with someone, then there is, even if they don't personally buy from you, they might refer someone to you, or they might engage more with you. And that is so, so valuable in a market with low trust. Yeah. What are some no-nos?

27:38I mean, we're talking about go be vulnerable. There's a person that I know who has a brand and and there's an opportunity to sort of consult with them um and i haven't had this conversation yet but i i don't know if i ever will they they're so negative um they're the only ones who are right everybody else is wrong their product is superior everybody else is inferior and i'm just kind of like but everybody else is not inferior like i really like your product but you know and i don't know how to say to them gosh i love your product but after getting to know you and seeing your online presence i don't feel like your product likes me

28:24so i have emotional tension with your product and i'm literally trying to reverse engineer of like why why do i not think this person why do i have a mixed you know it's like horse schultz who really sort of scaled up the Ritz-Carlton and created, you know, who knows. But he was a big part of creating that my pleasure sort of mentality and, you know, gave every employee $2 ,000 to solve a problem without asking for. Love that. It's amazing. Yeah. But he said, the reason I do that is once somebody turns against your brand, once you wrong somebody, they will become a terrorist against your organization.

29:05They're not interested in just not, they want other people to not buy. You have to be very careful of that. Are there places, are there dangers online that you would say, hey, listen, we're not saying go say anything. Like maybe we'll all feel a little bit safer if you just say, okay, well, just don't do these. like i don't publicly criticize um people by name uh i've you know i've written 15 books i've probably made i don't know 10 critical comments if you add them all together and then i just won't name you it's just not it's just a decision i made is to not put pain in the world yeah but uh are there other things that you've seen 100 well here's a rule like if you're over 55 don't dance online.

29:49You've still got, how old are you? 54. You've still got a year. No, did I say over 55? I should have said over 30. So yes, I think there are rules. I had someone ask me this recently because I was talking about this hot take content piece and people can get a bit alarmed because they're like, oh my gosh, she's going to ask me to like do this clickbait piece of content or call someone out. And like, and it's not that at all. It's not attacking a person. I think about it as, okay, and you talk about this all the time, there's a villain in the story and let's pull that out here of an idea or a belief rather than a person.

30:29I'm not about - I'll do that all the time. Harmful beliefs, harmful ideas, ideas I disagree with. Yeah. And we hold them out here and it's never personal. I had someone ask recently, they were like, I want to attract clients of a particular political party. Should I be doing my hot take content about that. And I was like, like, what, what's your offer? Is it related to anything to do with the political party or it's just your preference? She's like, no, no, no. My offer has nothing to do with politics. And I was like, okay. So yeah, I was like, okay, so, you know, it's helpful to think about, well, okay, this might be something that I'd talk about at a dinner party, but is it helpful or useful for me to talk about publicly?

31:13An example for me would be I'm a Christian, I have a faith and I don't really talk about it publicly. If anyone asks me, of course, I'm happy to talk about it, but it's not a part, it informs how I run my business, but it's not a key piece that my client needs to know in order to make a decision to work with me. And so I don't publicly talk about that in all of my content. However, if I was only working with Christian organizations, then that would be a big part of my strategy. So I share that example just so that you can see, well, is this relevant to my niche or is this something I should just go on Reddit and have a little rant about?

31:56So there is a distinction there. And I think really thinking about your ideal client, ideal customer and thinking about, well, is this going to move them toward me or away from me? and I want to move my ideal clients toward me, I'm happy moving the wrong people away from me. Yeah. So that would be my kind of rule on that. I also think if you wouldn't feel comfortable with saying it in front of 20 of your closest friends, maybe don't put it out on the internet. Yeah. So that's kind of a bit of a filter for me as well. It feels like the world has changed so much. There's a guy, you know who Palmer Lucky is?

32:32No. Palmer Lucky is, I mean, he looks to be maybe 30. Yep. he has a mullet he wears shorts and like a hawaiian shirt and he has like this 100 billion dollar company that makes weapons wow yeah i mean the guy's killing it the guy's i mean literally i mean he's he's somewhat of a controversial guy because he speaks very loudly about American foreign policy and how we need to sell weapons to Taiwan and we need to sell weapons to Ukraine and kind of keeping autocrats in check around the world. You know, that's a dirty, hard thing to talk about. But I mean, you literally, I mean, think about a guy who should be so tempted to be buttoned up.

33:22Yeah. Like to get it perfect. Yeah. And he just, you know, goes on Joe Rogan and, you know, and just you're just like, wow, this guy, if this guy's brand's doing fine by the way and he's just very very comfortable being himself it's it's sort of it's the world has changed a lot yeah and i you're right about that buttoned up thing i think where a lot of a lot of small business owners get stuck is they didn't start their business to be a personality online yeah they didn't you didn't start that for that reason right you started because you have a product you really love or you have a craft that you deliver or service that you provide that you're really, that's why you did it.

34:01And so I think that's where the challenge can be that I've got to present something that's actually different to who I am. And then there's a gap. And I feel like I'm performing out here instead of just being myself. And so for anyone listening, my encouragement would be, what would it look like if you could be a bit more yourself online, a bit more honest, a bit more, a bit more brave in what you shared. And it doesn't have to be political or anything like that. It's just, Hey, these are, these are ideas that I've been thinking about and this is what's resonating for me. And another, another like prompt for creating content around a personal brand is what is the hill I'm willing to die on?

34:48So like if, if we think about your content, there'd be probably multiple things that you're like, this is a hill I'm willing to die on. An example for you would be, well, I believe that you are the guide and the customer is a hero. That is a hill that you would die on. And so thinking about, well, okay, what are those hills? There might only be three or four things that you're like, I will die on this hill. For me, it's like, I believe creatives can make amazing money, have freedom, and also get like do beautiful work at the same time. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And so thinking about what is the hill that you would die on?

35:28What is the belief that like hand on heart, I believe this and you can't convince me otherwise. And it's in relation to your service. It's not like random stuff like macaroni and cheese is the best, whatever. Like it's got to be related to your service. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious about, you sell yourself. I sell myself. You know, we sell consulting services or various on-demand products, those sorts of things. I'm thinking about a couple of brands that I really admire, a couple of artists who, they literally sell like paintings, you know, like fine art paintings, but they have fantastic content.

36:06And what do you say to somebody who's not selling themselves? They have a small business, they're a plumber, you know, whatever. What do you say to them? How would you, if you were consulting with somebody like that, what would you say is a place to get started, content to get started? I mean, I even love like the running a fencing business is really hard. Here are three things that are just kind of very difficult about it. And then you're sort of promoting the fact that you're a fencing business, but you're also a business that makes fences. But you're also putting yourself out there as a person.

36:36You're sharing a little bit of vulnerability. Now, I think you should be very careful about being vulnerable about your competencies. 100 percent. I don't hear us say, you know, I just had I just made this terrible fence for a client. I'm feeling kind of bad. I would go fix the fence. I made the worst fence of all time today. Yeah, no, but I mean, just in movies and stories, the guide in the story can be incredibly vulnerable about mistakes they've made, past issues that they've had. you know i'm thinking of like the hunger games and haymitch is an alcoholic what's interesting about that is in their area of expected competency there are no vulnerabilities yeah he knows exactly how to get you through the hunger games right mr mayagi knows exactly how to train you to win a karate tournament even though he's tortured about his past and the you know the loss of his way you that's the one area where you need to be good at what you're selling and And it's very, very important that you don't break that rule.

37:42And if you're not good, you need to get good before you turn on your camera and talk about it. Well, I 100 % agree. You don't have to be the best, but you got to be good. And this is probably the thing when I was in my burnout phase last year. I was like, I'm not going to talk about this because I'm not through it yet. Yeah, that's a good rule. And that competency thing is super important. We do need to be savvy with, okay, does this make me look like an idiot who doesn't know what they're doing? and that should be a little checkbox. If it's yes, don't post. But if it makes me vulnerable, but I'm through the other side, there's definitely power in that.

38:19And I think that that distinction is so important, not being vulnerable about your competencies. Well, because even if you're vulnerable about a past incompetency in the area that you provide expertise, the beautiful thing about being vulnerable about a past mistake in the area of your expertise is you've learned from it, you've processed it, and it is no longer a liability for the customer. And those are great stories to tell. And I think when you have, there is a degree of, and Dan Martell talks about this actually, this idea that nobody really cares about your story until you've made it in a way.

38:57And so if LeBron James says, oh, I used to really struggle with this piece. I don't know anything about basketball, but whatever it is, free throws. That's the one thing I know. If he was like, I used to really struggle with this. And now you're like, the guy's the freaking goat. He can say he struggled with anything because he is the best. So there is an element of, okay, what do we do in the messy middle of when we're not maybe the best yet? How do we show, maybe there's like micro competencies that you can show where it's like, okay, cool. We worked with a client on this. Here's what we fixed.

39:32Here's the problems they were having. here's exactly what we did and I'm actually going to show you behind the scenes of how we did it like actually documenting your work if you don't have the proof yet why not just start documenting what you're doing so that you build the credibility and show the competency as you go yeah yeah yeah I love that all right how do you monetize social media I mean you know we've got to pay our rent What are some strategies that you would share with business owners on how to make money doing this? Yeah. So I think about, I think in the good old days, a funnel was kind of like this linear path, right?

40:13It was like, see social media post, click on link, go to landing page, download a thing, go to thank you page, purchase, right? It was like very linear. And I think there's still, you know, a piece for that. But I do think that now more than ever, I view your funnel as like a web. So we're thinking about, okay, there's someone sees your Instagram posts. They might see your LinkedIn posts. They might be on your email list and see an email from you over here. They might get retargeted with an ad. They might purchase like a low ticket product from you, or they might purchase something else. And it's this web of touch points that actually, this is how people consume now it's not linear it's sort of a familiarity and yeah and this feeling of omnipresence so so it you don't actually have to be on every single platform but there are different routes and ways and channels for people to come into your world i've heard that the more methodologies or places that you can show up like if somebody reads your book that's a place where they've interacted with you and then on instagram that's a place and then on YouTube, that's a place.

41:23And then watching you from a live audience with a keynote, that if you can just get three of those, the familiarity like goes up by 500%. That makes so much sense. Because I think if someone listens, and I'm not sure if you're the same, but if someone listens to my podcast and comes to a sales call with my team, they're like 80 % conversion rate. Just because they've heard me talking, there's this warmth, there's this trust there. So my whole thing is, okay, if I could get people to consume over here, but then there's some people that don't like podcasts. They prefer YouTube or they prefer short form.

41:56They'll never watch a long form thing or listen to a long form thing. They just like the little sound bites. Even like more micro than that on Instagram, certain people might prefer carousels or they might prefer a really long caption or a video. So thinking about, okay, different people consume in different ways. So that's kind of this idea of this web that people are coming from different places. what we do want to do is from each channel that we are hanging out with we want to make sure that it's easy for people to take the next step so on instagram using your dms to actually start conversations to book sales calls or whatever the next step is for you use that as the bridge between okay we've gotten attention on social media use your dms as like a little mini sales funnel to get people to book a call and then they're in your real like sales pipeline.

42:50So thinking about each platform, LinkedIn, people get freaked out about LinkedIn and think, oh my gosh, it's totally different to Instagram. The format's a bit different, but the marketing principles are the same. And so same thing. Can we start conversations in the DMs? Can we use that to drive call bookings or whatever the next step is in the funnel? Email is the same. Like, can you add to every like third email a PS at the bottom, hey, when you're ready, here's how I can help you. Yeah. And just here's a link. So just thinking about where we've got loads of reciprocity because we're adding value, we're connecting, we're showing up without any expectation of a return from this person.

43:32And just popping in and seeding in those little action steps in every platform, every vertical that you have, that's how you take your content from, oh, like they're a personality to actually know this is a full funnel that is actually functioning. And we drive them all to the same place. For me, it's drive them to book a call. And so for whoever's listening, like if you were thinking about, well, what is the ideal next step that I want people to take? Wherever you are hanging out, we're just driving them to that. and people consume in all different ways. And now we're just going, cool, let's just drive them to this.

44:10And then we can have this really dialed, repeatable process for that bottom part of the funnel. Yeah. I've heard you mention a few brands, a few people, Taylor Swift, Alex Formozzi. I'm curious, are there, one, brands that you admire that you would say, look at how good they're doing this and learn from them? And any clients that you want to brag about who you've seen do some wonderful things? The person that I'm loving right now, I really love Leila Hall-Mosey's content. I feel like... Oh, yeah. She's kind of stepped up and building her own brand outside of Alex right now, which is really fun.

44:41Yeah. And I feel like she's got this kooky side to her that she's showing a bit more now. And I think, again, it's exactly what we're talking about. It makes you go, oh, look, she's a bit weird and funny. And I really like that. I mean, she's weirdly vulnerable. She talked about going in and buying a Bentley, I think, which sounds... You're like, is that vulnerable? Like, yeah, that's pretty vulnerable because you're going to get attacked, you know. Yeah. And just talk about how much she like didn't like it, went back and got like some cheap car. It's very lovable. Yeah, she has something really endearing about her.

45:12That cheap car, by the way, I think was like a Range Rover. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's really slumming it. But yeah, I really am loving. She's a great example of someone who has the high production stuff, but also has the raw scrappy iPhone stuff behind the scenes. Sense of humor. She entertains. she shows her quirks and I think that I don't think she's always done that I think that she's shifted in the last 12 months to really do that and I think she's done that very well I'm excited to see how her content shifts when they have their baby and to see like what she as a mum will be like because again for me watching I don't have kids I'm like oh how is she gonna do this like I'm really curious about that so I think she's someone who does this really well very clear next step in the offer and but also very very generous um in terms of clients one of my favorite clients she's actually based in Newport in California her name's Julia Meyer she runs a branding and web design agency and her her tagline is like we create breakneck brands and the whole thing is like she's like your brand is boring and I want your brand to like be so bold that's a great example of being against something that doesn't really hurt anybody's feelings you know i mean it's like yeah you don't have to be negative it's like your brand's boring and nobody wants a boring brand so it's kind of like oh yeah i don't want that so she's doing really well she's got some really fun content and i love seeing how she's bringing her personality to her service because her service is the same as so many other brand and web design agencies but by bringing and overlaying her personality, it makes you go, oh, I'll work with her because there's something likable about her.

46:59Okay. First step. Let's just go all the way back to the beginning. If anybody has been inspired by Laura Higgins to go pull out your iPhone and start creating a personal brand, give us an assignment. What's the first thing that we need to do? First thing you're going to do is you're going to put your phone away. Wait, first thing you're going to do is you're actually going to set a timer for 10 minutes. You're going to put your phone away and you are just going to splurge. And you're just going to start by saying, okay, here's what's on my mind. And you're going to write. And by writing, you're going to figure out what's emerging for you and what's resonating for you.

47:31And then you're going to look at it and you're going to want to edit it and you're going to feel cringe about yourself and you're going to judge your work, but we're not editing. We're just writing. Then the next day you're going to come back to it and you're just going to highlight ideas that have come from it. You might go on a weird tangent somewhere that you're like, I don't even know what I was talking about. That's totally fine. You're going to just highlight, okay, maybe there's two or three ideas here that I could talk about. Then you're going to either film a video on one of them or send an email on one of them.

48:01You're not going to use AI in the process. You are just going to show up as yourself. Don't stress about hooks. Don't stress about like making production value good. We're just going to build the muscle of checking and actually going, okay, cool. I have something to say and it's unique to me. I'm not filtering it. I'm not looking at everyone else. What do I actually have inside me that I can say? And then we're going to start sharing that. That sounds like a good first step. I think everybody's kind of nervous now. Yeah, good. Laura, thanks for coming all the way from Australia to be with us today.

48:33My pleasure. Very helpful. Thanks for listening to the StoryBrand podcast. No matter where you are in your marketing and messaging journey, get the tools, the training, and the support you need to start clarifying that message at storybrand.com. And don't forget to follow and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And if you're watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and then leave a comment letting us know what resonated with you and what we can impact to help your business grow in a future episode. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next week.

49:12Thank you.