We Truly Know Nothing... | EP 61

0:08Adam Greenfield:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Success Series. I'm your host, David Berg. I'm here with my good friend, Adam Greenfield. You might know him from one of the first episodes that we've done. I think it was episode 20, about a year ago. We're now filming in Marina del Rey at Commander AI's headquarters. Adam's super excited to be with you today. I know you said we wanted to have a little bit more of a chill format today. We are. We are, no pun intended. We're going to talk about a bunch of cool stuff, but Adam, let me just kick it off for our guests who haven't heard you the first time around.

0:34Adam Greenfield:Who are you? What do you do? My name's Adam Greenfeld. I grew up in New York. I'm the son of Joseph and Susan. They're angels.

0:48Professionally, I've started a few e-commerce businesses, and now I run a creative studio called Fridge. I started a personalized Neutropics brand called Thesis. and another supplement brand called Stasis.

1:01Adam Greenfield:They're both based in New York. Awesome. And we spoke about founders a bunch before the podcast, but in being a founder, what are some of the most unexpected things that you didn't anticipate when you initially, you know, launched your first company or launched your first product? That I didn't anticipate? Paperwork and how much, how unorganized, like, and how my, how much impact, my inability to be organized would actually impact the business and um and then having this epiphany of like holy shit I need to surround my because I'm so kind of scattered and unorganized and like don't keep everything together um how important it is to be surrounded by people that are ultra organized um and so I think like that was an unexpected thing I I think I got away in school and growing up you know just where it didn't things weren't happening as fast right there wasn't as much documentation and then you hire people and you have to do hr and you have to do insurance and you have to be yeah i mean i used to say it all the time i'm like hr nightmare you just throw everything out there i'm just like i'm fucking up dog ate my homework yeah things falling through the cracks right and then as as I have as the years have gone by and I have put in processes and brought in people to ensure things don't fall through the cracks and surrounded myself with people that over index on structured thinking process it's allowed me to kind of live in the strategy, vision, kind of what to do and not having to actually execute it.

2:50So that makes a little sense. And what about you? Yeah. What's your answer to that question? Because now you've been in the startup thing for a minute now.

2:58Adam Greenfield:18 months. Yeah. I think a ton. I mean, definitely the organization thing. And I'll say that, Alan Asi will follow up on that too, because I've been struggling with that from day one. But I've always been that way. and I sort of deliberately knew that and I said well I'm not we're a startup we're not going to spend money on legal we're not going to spend money on anybody putting this together like this is going to fall on me and I kind of kicked the can down the road and now we're having to go back and fix things which I think is a good problem to have because I think if you ever get to a place where you can go and pay for that that means that you've got into a good place right so it's like that's not a bad thing I think aside from that I've always been really good at having an idea of something executing it myself but never really being a team player and as a CEO I have to be a team player i have to trust other people and i've noticed sorry we just hired a new uh lady for customer success and i find myself like not micromanaging so to speak but like not just allowing her to like grow into the role like it's her first week and like i'm on the demo calls with her and i'm like you know biting my tongue not to just like interject here it's like no she's she knows what she's doing she can handle it right or if it's like on product i'm like following up like 15 times and you roll this out and you roll this out it's like trust that they have it on the roadmap and they're going to get it delivered or they're going to get it pushed and so letting go and trusting any of my employees is probably the hardest thing not because I don't believe in them because I obviously do because we hired them but I think it's I feel that if I'm not involved in it from like start to finish it just won't happen and I haven't figured that out yet have you been proven wrong yet many times not in this company but almost my entire life where I noticed like Like if I wasn't directly or intimately involved in a project that I wanted to manifest, whether it's silly as like dinner plans with friends, like I was always the one initiating it.

4:41Adam Greenfield:I was like, let's do an event. Let's do a dinner. And it was always coming from here. It wouldn't happen. And so I think I just got programmed where it's like, if I'm not initiating it, if I'm not pushing it to close, it's not going to happen. So is that something you want to change? And like, it's weird. It's weird. Because part of it, it's like, okay, well, that's a good thing. Yeah. Because nothing's going to slip through the cracks. Yeah. It drives you a little bit nuts. Totally. It takes a lot of your time. I think I'd like to get to a place and maybe this can bridge into like our next conversation and I'm curious how you how you deal with it.

5:08But I think trust ties into like, do you fully believe in the people that you're bringing on board to the team?

5:15Adam Greenfield:And do they have a reason to work as hard as you do? And I think that I've yet to figure that out or what necessarily drives people aside from monetary incentives, aside from equity. Like, how do you get people to feel electrified about what they're building? I think when I know that about all of my employees, then I'll be completely hands off. because I know that they'll work as hard as I will. I think it's not that I don't trust it. It's that I don't think that they actually care as much as I do. They don't. They don't. Gary Vee talks about this all the time. Really? No one's ever going to care as much as you.

5:44Can that ever change? Nope. Nope. Why? No one will ever care about your business as much as you do. Okay. That is the CEO, the founder, you're always going to give the most shits. There needs to be areas of gray. Okay. Like that was something that I realized with thesis as well. Like, so I, so I started thesis with Dan Fried. Dan actually had the idea first, did all the research. I came in a year or two after he had already been like doing all the research and doing the clinical trials. Sure. I will never care as much as Dan cared and no one will ever care as much as I do. what we need to find is people that don't that give a shit but we can't expect them to ever be at the same no no no no it's never gonna happen i have a hard time with that it's not just it's

6:38Adam Greenfield:just not gonna happen okay so we have there's zero examples of that being of that being the case it's it's hard it's hard it's hard to quantify but i think because when i was working at for patterson and battle i did it for five years i would i felt like one it was my company i was i I was not deeply incentivized monetarily, but I was deeply incentivized because he would tell me that everything that I do is directly impacting the value of the company. And he would show me that. And actually, I don't know why I don't do this if he did that to me. But he would say, we just raised$300 million. And most of that is because of your sales ability.

7:07Adam Greenfield:And that as a salesperson, you just feel like, oh, my God, I'm going to go crazy now for the next 360 days to get that done. See if you can pull that off. Right. So was that an anomaly case? I still don't think you cared as much as Mike. As much as Mike. Right. So maybe I cared a lot. You cared a lot. Right. It's a fool's errand to believe someone's going to be at your level. You will always care the most. So where do you want to get that? No one ever cared as much as Adam Neumann did about WeWork. Right. No one ever cares as much about Meta as Zuck. Right. But no one cares as much about Google as Larry and Sergey.

7:40It's always someone else's. Now, you can really care. Yeah. But there's infinite levels of giving a shit. um but to to expect anyone to meet you on that one metric i i don't i don't think that's what

7:57Adam Greenfield:we should be optimizing for okay so then with that one tapping into the human psyche and just your your thought and spirituality aside from money what gets people excited impact purpose Okay. And I think everybody's different there. I think so one, one thing that I like to think about, especially when I'm when I'm hiring with at fridge is do they do they care about our mission? Do am I clear enough about why we're doing the thing? And like, the impact that we're making and how we're making the world a better place that I can enroll other people in our on the why. And then the second is how much do they care about their craft, the thing that they're doing?

8:45So the one way I think about it now is everything is changing so quickly. Every function of the business, marketing, growth, CX, ops, HR, engineering, tech, it's all evolving and changing so, so quickly. that the best practitioners in each end of the business are not those who have the most amount of experience. It's those who are going to be able to learn all the new ways that AI is reshaping their function. And so the way that I think about it is I'm hiring for speed of learning. How quickly are you learning? That directly correlates. The speed in which you're learning is going to directly correlate to how interested you are in your function and how easy it is for you to take courses, watch YouTube videos and learn all the new shit.

9:43How effortless is it for you to be reading all the newsletters on, on your, on your specific thing. And so I see it as giving a shit about the mess, the mission and understanding how it is that this business is making the world a better place and two giving a shit about your function like i think about myself or anybody

10:03Adam Greenfield:else it's like when you are excited about whatever the thing is that you're doing that's enough to usually get you to work a lot harder than you would otherwise so i totally resonate with that i think at least on our team every person that we've hired they specialize in one thing or another whether it's their ai engineer their product designer like that is their diploma that is who they are that is like everything about them um and i think if you can light them up in that regards then yeah like Like, you know, show them, hey, you did this design for, you know, UI filter. Customer loved it. Like, that'll make you feel good.

10:34Adam Greenfield:So I totally resonate with that. I think if we jump to a different category, when you look at hiring, like, what are you looking at when you hire people? Do you look at experience? Do you look at synergy from an energy perspective? Like, what are the most important things to you? So I think one, I think step one, just to get through like that screening interview, I'm at a place now where at least a lot of the roles that I'm hiring for, I need to know that you've done it before. So it's like really simple. Like here are the things we need done. Just show me how you've done it before, what your process was to get that thing done and show me like measurable results on how that impacted the business you were doing it for.

11:14So that's like step one step two is like uh how much do you enjoy doing your thing like you've been doing you know say some whatever it's an engineer you've been doing you've been writing code for the past five years and you've built some cool products like do you want to continue doing that or are you like trying to get out of that right there's a lot of people who have been doing it and now they kind of want to pivot away but like they're like well this is how i make my money this is what i'm good at I'm good at it. I don't like working with those people. Right. I want to work with people who've been doing it for a little while and want to do it for the next five years because I need them to continue to get better at it.

11:53And if you're like one foot out the door in that function, like I've been doing CX for, you know, five years, but I kind of don't want to do it anymore, but I'm good at it. So I'll take this role. Like I'm going to self-select out of that human. Right. um and then three like do they have a deep compassion for our end user i say like the one thing for me when it comes to starting companies the question i ask is like would i hang out do what i want to hang out with my customers like do i care enough about my end customers that i want to hang out with them i want to have conversations with them that i want to sit on the phone with them that I understand what their plight in life is.

12:36Do I, do I deeply appreciate the service that they're bringing to the world? And if that's the case, that's where the spirituality comes from. If we have deep compassion, either we are our customer or we understand the importance of what our customer is. Um, we'll have, we'll be able to open up a level of intuition and creativity in solving problems for them that I don't, that is like that next level of problem solving and advancement if we have deep compassion. So yes, the three things I'm looking for are one, have you been doing the thing? Right. Two, do you want to keep doing the thing? And three, do you have a deep compassion for our end user to hopefully open up that funnel of intuition to come up with new creative ideas to keep doing your job more right yeah i think i think the mistake a lot of founders

13:28Adam Greenfield:make is that we get so obsessed with what we built or the our vision for the product that might be different than what customers actually want and then you get that feedback but you're so stuck to your idea that you force the wrong product instead of listening to what your customers are and that's probably why most companies fail because every great company and every company that's failed had feedback from customers and i think like the blackberry examples like the most common it's like everybody was telling you that they didn't need buttons and that they wanted the screen right and blackberry was like so adamant about their builds because it worked for them for so long um and so i think that that's just like fascinating but i think as a founder have you gotten any have you gotten any oh my gosh feedback yeah from that contradicted what i think is tell me oh all the time so for example early on um i thought especially because our you know our platform's ai based and and it's all sort of digitized and automated i said if we build a product that requires very little heavy user involvement it'll scale very quickly and it's our customers will love it about two three weeks since our first launch and customer they gave us feedback they're like hey look this makes me feel useless this makes me feel like my job doesn't have a purpose and although it's super cool I don't enjoy it and I don't feel like I can customize it so that was one customer feedback then another customer onboarded and they said this makes me feel like it's just doing it has a mind of its own which I can't really control which doesn't make me feel comfortable and I don't trust it it'll send out the emails the way I wanted to and so even though I was like super psyched we called it autopilot we got inspired by like Tesla's autopilot you basically log in you'd enter a couple prompts about what your company does and then boom it's your sales you know sort of AI engineer now we have a bunch of different modules where users can come in they can turn this on autopilot they can turn that off if they want to send the emails themselves they can send the emails themselves if they want the AI to do it they can do that too and they love it even though that's not what I thought was cool and so it took me like a couple of weeks, if not months to get comfortable with that idea.

15:14Adam Greenfield:Cause like I had spent six months and that's the other thing. It's like all the time that you spent building something and thinking about something and then it rolls out and then you have to backtrack and build something different. You're introducing a new technology to a new category of people who probably have never used AI before. Or any technology whatsoever. Or any stuff at all. That's fascinating. What a great piece of insight. That's fascinating. I love that. And so you had to almost regress back the advancement of the product to meet kind of the anxiety level of the end user. Right. We actually like made it less technical or less like cool from an AI perspective to accommodate to our users.

15:54Adam Greenfield:Something else that I wanted to talk to you about, and I was talking to another founder about this yesterday. We were having a conversation and we both had challenging days, I could tell. and we were basically both at the walls initially and both like refusing to talk about the actual challenges we were going through. We're like, oh, the company's good. Things are, you know, we're growing the typical like banter between the founder where you're not actually sharing anything of meaning or substance. And then as soon as I said something that I was struggling with, they just like, you know, open the waterfalls and it was like, this is happening and that's happening.

16:22Adam Greenfield:And they became vulnerable. And then I, and I was okay with being vulnerable too. So the question that I have for you is I think a lot of founders, including myself, we feel that the way that we become successful the way that we gain respect is by pretending like we have things figured out even though nobody really does i don't think that's your nature and i don't i think i've seen you be vulnerable and i've also seen you not act like you know everything so one what's allowed you to do that and then two let's just talk about like why founders have this confused mindset that nobody actually really cares about it's funny because it one day it kind of just turned on i did i like created these masks and these walls and this fake persona for so many years where I like felt I was like I would say yes to everything I would I would try to pretend and spin doctor and and I'm good at sales so like and I'm good with my words so I would be able to like weave these stories and at the end of the day I think it takes a remarkable amount of energy to keep up those personas what did I say last time did I am I saying the same thing?

17:27Am I consistent? Right. And, and just like keeping up that fake persona is a lot of energy. And I think it would like made me really uncomfortable. Um, two, where it ended up being, I think what really, what broke it for me and like, was just like, dude, you just need, there were two things that happened that was just kind of got me there. one was i i ended up just making a lot of promises that i couldn't come through with and like give us some examples i would just people would be like hey can you do are you able to do this are you able to do that and i'm like yes people to death and i would take on responsibilities or or make promises that i think you didn't have the capacity or yeah yeah that i didn't have

18:11Adam Greenfield:anything to do why were you saying yes is that is that the same it was people pleasing it was people It was people pleasing. Yeah, it was me wanting to look cool, me wanting to feel successful. I can juggle all of this at the same time. Totally, totally, totally. And the pain of letting people down and the pain of people following up two weeks later and be like, Yo, did you do the thing? And me being like, fuck, I did it. I didn't even start. I completely forgot. Or it's been on my to-do list and every time I look at it, it feels like it's a boulder. like this massive boulder being pushed up versus and then i read this book called principles by ray dalio who started bridgewater so this is one of the biggest hedge funds in the world and he wrote this it's basically like his memoir memoir and um the operating the operating fundamentals of how he built the business and it's all based on radical transparency and it's all based on like these credibility scores and you read the book and Bridgewater is they are maniacal about telling people where they're not good what they're not good at and like taking them out of meetings like if someone walks into a meeting it doesn't matter if they have like a c-level title but they're not credible in the thing they'll just kick them they will be asked to leave or if they raise their hand and try to say something even an associate can be like you don't have a high credibility score really yes this is across the company this across thousands of people it's notoriously one of the hardest places to work well because of this culture but when you read the book and now it's on spotify um and it's free okay so like i i listen to it on 2x at least twice a year just to remind me but basically what it is is like even ray who's the CEO of the business he's just so proud of all the things he's not good at and it kind of um it kind of sensationalized these moments of being like I am really good at certain things and I am really bad at certain things and and then I just started testing that out and it felt so good it felt so good to just be like no I'm like really bad at that I'm like I am super nervous right now and what and i just started getting such positive feedback from people the more vulnerable or the more honest i was about the things that i wasn't good at or the the things we weren't good at as a business and thus we were able i'm able to kind of like weed out either you know think about it from like a customer standpoint like customers like hey does your product do this or does your product do that and and you're just honest with them no no it does not we're not the right people for you and let me introduce you to someone who can do that and innately like that surprises people more and gives them more admiration for you than if you and more credibility to your to your product and your company totally yeah and then i'm able to like refer them to friends and right and now i'm in good standing with this person and i just gave this person more you probably get like five customers through it anyways because they'll introduce you to this person totally yeah okay so i i think that all makes sense to me i think the challenge that i still have with that is i can see that like in the scenario that you laid out in relationships for sure like if you're on a date like be as vulnerable as possible it always works like there's never going to be a girl who likes you less because you were authentic and vulnerable with her i've seen that every time but i think where i get tripped up because i i feel like this is a culture that exists as a founder let's say a young founder in my in my situation where you're really proving yourself almost to everybody all the time.

21:52Adam Greenfield:If I led with that, like, Hey, I'm a 26 year old founder that hasn't had a previous exit yet. You should invest a million dollars in capital into my company, but I'm really not strong in all these areas. Like they're looking for reasons to not invest, right? Like venture, like they have a checklist. They're looking for reasons to not invest. And so you don't have to lie, but you have to be uber confident in everything that they asked you about. How do you, how would this apply there? So in a fundraising, fundraising things so i think my my point of view in the venture world is very different i believe uh objectively that any time you walk into a meeting with a venture capitalist uh they are the most insecure people in the room and like you blind and i by nature yeah so before it was called venture capital it was called ultra high risk investing interesting and what when did it change It changed in the late 70s, early 80s.

22:48Okay, it became more mainstream. Yeah, yeah. But early on, and there's all these documentaries about the semiconductor businesses, and all those investors from Silicon Valley that were investing, when they were investing in the 70s, it was all called ultra-high-risk investing. Interesting. Because that's what it is. Right. It is complete and entire uncertainty. And as an investor, their entire job is to create false certainty around something that is by nature an ultra high risk investment. So when when I would walk into investor meetings, I knew when it came to the thing that I was raising for, which at that point was a nootropic supplement company.

23:34And for you, it's this it's this A.I. company. When it comes to this thing, you unequivocally are the smartest person in the room about your thing. Right. Their job is to fool themselves into thinking that they don't know about your company. But they don't. But they don't. I heard a podcast the other day about a very, very it was featuring a very accomplished investor. And he was like. Every single company has pivoted at least one or two times like their early their series seed or series A projections were completely wrong. so you have to go into all those meetings and like look at them in the eye and be like no like this is what i think might happen and this is everything i'm doing to build this thing but the likelihood is that we you will invest and nine months later i do something completely completely fucking right and that's just the reality um i think you need to know the things that you know and the things that you are confident in that you are world class at building and if there's investors who are like hung up on you know specific numbers and multiples and like the numbers need to line up like they're and and that doesn't work for you then they're not the right investor for you um i think like a big challenge in invest in in this like venture thing is like investors waste a lot of our time right like your greatest service is not to be raising capital it's to be building the actual company right it's only taking away from the quicker you can get to a no right the dangers are the maybes these people that like kind of want to stick around eight weeks of diligence 15 phone calls two trips to san francisco and then sorry

25:28Adam Greenfield:we're gonna pass it's like that would have been much better to know three and a half months ago and so getting to these no's really quickly i remember i used to i used to get on these phone calls and i would i would have their website shared on my screen and i would look through all their companies sure and i would be like hey it doesn't seem like you invest in any companies like ours like why are you even why are we taking this phone call and i would just shut up right and i would let them pitch me on why they're why they because the reality is it's like i'd love to just get you we don't need that many investors you need like three or four for like yeah and then just let me get the fuck back to right to running the company um let's get this over with as fast as possible now you do have to do diligence and and i think like in doing that diligence process it does allow you to step out of the business and look at it holistically and actually see the gaps which is like that's what i would say about like our fundraising process i was like guys we have to fix this like there's a fault here with product this is not going to get us product market fit like this this falls with the legal docs and we fix all we have to fix all of it totally and that actually helps you a ton totally it's so like i can't hate that part of it but i think like you I said the exploratory phase until you get to diligence is a complete waste of time.

26:37Adam Greenfield:Yep. And, you know, they're never going to show you they're insecure, but underneath, they're highly insecure. And you'd say this across. I mean, there are anomalies to the case. I think when it's like a previous founder who's built a couple of great companies and now they're doing this because they have time on their hands. But I think a VC that have never started a company, that's a little bit dangerous. Because it's like, how can you give me advice on how to build my company if you've never done it yourself? I think it's an interesting practice. Yeah. Have you ever thought about getting into it?

27:06Yeah, that's why I originally started starting companies because I wanted to be a venture investor. Wow, I didn't know that. And I hung out with a really well-known venture investor in New York. And I was like, how do I get into this? And he's like, go start companies. So I started starting companies. Yeah. And as soon as I started meeting with venture investors and being around them. And now some of my closest friends are venture investors. and I will say the more I hung out with venture investors, the less I wanted to do it. It is so much cooler being a founder. Nobody could tell me otherwise.

27:41Adam Greenfield:I think so. I never want to be on the other side. Like you have a little bit of power, but if you build a great company, I mean, you have more, you know, it's like, it's just, it's not the way I'm, I'm sewn together for sure. I think most, I think most, like, I think for me too, it's like when you're, I wanted to be like a wealth manager. It's like the thought of you get to be on the other side of the table, guiding and making decisions with other people's money. Sounds like a nice thing to do in theory but once you start your first company you just get obsessed with what you're building and that's all you want to do cool it's so cool to build shit yeah yeah and it can get so big so fast like you're seeing it like this right commander is just like fucking exploding man crazy 18 months it's good like i know you sauna 18 months ago it was me alone in the sauna in north miami beach think working at a clothing company thinking like what am i gonna do with my time and then and then this light bulb just like switched and now we're sitting here and it's like you know, tell people full-time on the company and it's just, it's crazy.

28:33Adam Greenfield:It's crazy how quickly things can change. Um, what, what's, what's your perspective on relationships when it comes to, and I spoke with some of the younger guys yesterday about when you're building a company or building anything, building yourself, working towards something, what's the power of a spouse in, in, in that process? Well, it's, uh, I'm in a relationship now. Okay. Um, but it's not, it's not like a normal practice for me oh interesting so you're saying most of you know I don't normally like have girlfriends really no just I'm kind of a lone wolf yeah you know the the woman I'm dating now she's remarkable and Ruth so smart okay and you know she also kind of like does her own thing she had a bunch of stuff going on and yeah but you know she has her own thing and she does it all the time and we check in a couple times during the day um i think the the things i really love about our dynamic as it pertains to the business is um i mean you know she's an outlier because she started a bunch of companies before she's worked in corporate now she's in film and directing and producing and acting so like she has a lot of context and so she's she is a good thought partner and has hired a bunch of people and has raised capital and has had exit events.

29:58And so she has a lot of context, but I'm probably not as well suited to answer that question as the guys who have been married for 10 years or whatever.

30:08Adam Greenfield:Yeah. I mean, I guess, yes and no, because you can attest to what it's like. I guess I'll rephrase the question, because I talked to a lot of founders too. And I'm like, have you seen a direct correlation either, it doesn't matter, marriage relationship from being single, right? And building versus as being in a relationship and building is there any is there any any sort of difference from your perspective or in your mind it's like i was building the same way when i was single i'm building the same way when i'm in a relationship yeah nothing changed i don't think so really not for me again this is a highly subjective thing right because you hear guys right that are like it's only because like adam newman will say like only because of rebecca did we work ever happen right totally and i believe that that's probably true and for a lot of founders that's the case yeah i i can't get inside adam's head yeah um but yeah i bet there is you know rebecca's remarkable woman yeah and visionary and super passionate and um he you know from from everything that that i observe through screens yeah he's like obsessed with her and um and that's beautiful and that's also rare.

31:14We also have examples of friends whose wives and spouses couldn't quite stomach how devoted they were to the business. I think that can also be a burden if you're torn and you have a partner who wants more of your time and doesn't quite understand how much dopamine we get from running these companies um i think it's like interest it's it's a good thing to kind of pre-qualify early on in dating of like can they keep up with with everything that i'm are they are they down with the lifestyle that we live where we really we care a lot about building the thing right in these moments and it's just like really entertaining for us yeah i like the

32:05Adam Greenfield:way that you phrase it you're like can they do they understand the level of dopamine that we get from building whatever that thing is i think also for me i'm which i'm having a harder time but i'm starting to understand is and i feel this way i feel when i'm building and i'm like really zoned into what i'm building i only want to be around other people that are also creating at the same capacity i think you've done a good job at finding those people did you find them in your 20s is it something that came to you a little later and if so like what because i'm noticing like i'll attract one person that i can relate to but i haven't found that like group of people that i view as like building at the same capacity that I am and therefore I can relate to and and connect on that level yeah yeah I I think I've always kind of spent my time well number one yeah I think like innately the way that I view friends is I'm always in learn mode I'm always curious curious I ask a lot of questions.

33:01I see the people I'm around as sources of wisdom and influence and experience. And so I'm always asking questions. And because I do that a lot, innately, the people that I'm around, the people that I keep around are always feeding that curiosity. and so it's like this subconscious um this subconscious vetting because I'm always just like so curious yeah just like this deep hunger to get motivated and to like tell me what you're doing tell me what's growing and like and you'll just you'll just click with those people that are that because you're asking so many questions and you're yeah and if and if they can't answer those questions or they can't feed my desire there's no affinity there they'll fizzle away they'll fizzle