2311 - Mastering the Art of Logical Business Decisions with Thesis' Young Han

0:04Well, hey, Thoughtful Leader. Welcome to the Thoughtful Entrepreneur. On this show, I interview purpose-driven founders, experts, and change makers who are making a real impact in the world. Want to be a guest? Simple. Go to upmyinfluence.com and click podcast. I'd love to promote your story to our audience of over 100 ,000 and across over 2 ,300 daily episodes and counting. Want to get booked on other great shows like this? Simple. Go to podverified.com and get your free guest authority score. Thousands of hosts are looking for high quality guests and Podverified connects you the right way. Now let's dive into today's episode.

0:58With us right now, it is Young Han. Young, You are, you're multi entrepreneur. You have multiple companies, but your primary work is you work as a fractional CFO. You're with your company thesis. Your website is alwayshan.com or alwayshan.com. And I got to point out to your podcaster, your show is the Girl Dad Show, which I love all of our fellow dads of girls. It's just, it's such an important role. I'm so grateful, so proud of my now adult daughter who's reached the, see, I don't know how many months old she would be, but she's 25 years old. So lots of months, but, you know, it's just such a joy to be able to, you know, kind of be that role model to her.

1:50And it's nice to be able to compare notes with others. But anyway, Han, thank you. Young, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, before we get into your work and what you do, I always love learning what our business leaders, kind of the interest that they have outside of work. What have you been geeking out on lately? Well, I will say that I've had to put a lot of my hobbies to the side over the last four years. I'm on a five-year sprint to try to achieve something pretty large in my life. And so I've sacrificed a lot of those things to focus on business building.

2:26But as I head into my fifth year, I have been talking to my wife a lot about what I want to start picking up on hobbies. And so I actually am very interested in taking golf lessons and getting really good at it because I'm like a pretty bad golfer. But I enjoy it. It'd be really fun to be good at it. And then I'm actually really interested in learning how to box. So I've been researching different boxing gyms to like learn how to do that. I just feel like that'd be a really fun tactical skill that I could learn and get good at. And, you know, and so those are the two things that I'm really been researching a lot to pick up on.

2:57Oh, that's fine. Listen, I live on a golf course. I don't know how to play. I think in 17 years of living here, I think I've played twice. And I just had a friend that invited me to golf. I'm like, well, as long as listen, I'm okay with laughing at myself. But I'm telling you what, like, I'm going to swing at the ball. and sometimes I will entirely miss the ball, I need to know that you're going to be okay with that because I'm okay with that because that's just where I'm at. So, but, well, lots of fun. Young, tell me about your work. So your website, alwayshan.com is a great place to go to kind of direct to everything that you do.

3:40But how would you describe your work? Yeah, it's a little confusing. I mean, I've definitely been building a lot over the last four years. And so it's a little tricky to understand what I do from the outside in. But the main thing that I do is I offer strategic finance and operations for growing brands, right? So if you're a company that's, you know, doing 10 million, trying to get to middle market to like 50 to 100 million, that's really where the sweet spot is, where you really need like a CFO, but you can't afford a full-time one. then you buy us fractionally and we offer not only the financial services that you need to grow a scaling company like that but also what makes us different is that we're a lot more strategic than your typical controller or someone that just reacts to the books we actually get very involved in the business and that comes from the fact that both me and my business partner are from venture so we're from VC worlds and so we've worked inside of venture-backed companies and scaled hypergrowth.

4:36And we know what it looks like to scale businesses through data collection and finance. And so it's a really unique skill set that we can bring into more traditional mid-market businesses and help them grow. And so that's our bread and butter. That's how I make my money and my living. And that's what I'm naturally good at where I roll out of bed and I don't have to prepare to be good at it. I could just start providing value. That's the thing, right? That's my superpower. It's nice to be in that stage of business. So coming from VC, What superpowers do you generally bring in that most founders wouldn't have themselves, where when you're coming in with this skill set, you just make their life a lot easier?

5:15Simplicity. So the biggest thing that I'm really good at almost very quickly and almost everybody is just helping them understand the pros and cons of all the different options that they have, and then quantifying it financially and fiscally, and then being able to do like a cost analysis, risk analysis on what the option is best. and sometimes they still disagree with my logical analysis and we'll go do something that is illogical because they believe in it and they're visionary or they're passionate which is fine but at least you're doing it eyes wide open but it allows people to basically clear up like hey i feel like i'm working 20 hours a day and i feel like i'm not making progress moving forward and it's like the thing that we can provide is some sort of quantitative analysis around that and some sort of projection of this is what we think it'll cost this is what we think it'll be risk risk-averse or risk-tolerant based on your tolerance level, what it'll take for you to get to the next stage.

6:05So I would imagine then that for a visionary, that likely just gives them a lot of confidence, I suppose, to know that they're not doing this alone. And a lot of times, as a visionary, I'm reading a book right now called The Messy Middle, which I think is just fantastic. But it is. It's tricky, where especially if you're so emotionally tied up in your creation, it's really helpful to have someone that is like Spock, you know, to be completely logical about the decisions. And we try to be, I think all founders try to be that, but it's hard. It's challenging. Yeah. And you, you, you can't, I mean, the reality is I have no, I have no, what's it called?

6:55Fear or judgment or any of those variations of that against the founder. I mean, I feel like typically most owners are really passionate about something and they started because of an emotional drive and they take that leap of faith. I mean, the amount of courage they need to build a business is so high. And so obviously, you need that level of vindiction and confidence to push through all the grit and grind that takes to get to an established business. And I have no disrespect for that at all. And I think there's a lot to be said about gut intuition, their ability to drive through the pain and get to that level.

7:28I'm just there to provide some structure. Because a lot of times people that are like that have built a business blood, sweat, and tears. And all I'm able to do is say, hey, this thing is way bigger than you now, and you can't manhandle it like you used to. So let me help you build some processes and structure, at least quantify some of it for you so you can make a very, very educated guess and know what the risks are. And when you talk about risks, are you talking about taking on investor capital? you know, I guess I'm curious when you talk about, you know, what choices they have, what are we talking about?

8:01All of the above. So for example, like one of the big things is like, what do you want next? Right. And, and most people say, I want, this is literally what most people say. Most owners say, I want more money. And then my next immediate question is what, why do you want the money and how much money? And, and then you start to actually get into the meat of it. Right. And it's like, so then you started going, Oh, wait, I just, I just want more like, cause I don't have enough. Like why I need to like pay for my kids college. And I feel like I'm running this like$15 million business, but I'm still like living paycheck to paycheck.

8:34It's like, okay, so let's say we got like, say we got you an extra$200 ,000 a year. What does that do in your life? Is that going to make you happy? What are you going to be able to afford? Like, I've never like quantified. I just want more. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's start quantifying it and figuring out what that looks like. Yeah. So you just, you just have worked through that with them, right. And figure out what they actually want, because this is the part that may be a little more controversial and I may get canceled, but business is actually really easy. It's the people that make it hard.

9:02So once, once we know what it is that you're looking for, Hey, I just want to have$5 million in the bank in the next 10 years. And I want to be making$200 ,000 more net every single year. And I'd like to do this in the next three to five years. Great. This is how much risk you need to take based on what we've understood about your business. We recommend that you don't take capital, you do debt vehicle, or we recommend that you do take debt and then, or I'm sorry, an equity partner, you do this, or we just, everything's a dial. Everything's a dial of risk and allocation of money and pressure. And if you have a business that's doing that kind of revenue already, you have a lot of historical data that you can reference to prove that it'll work in the future too.

9:39So it becomes very mechanical. So it's really about figuring out what the founder actually wants and helping them quantify what success looks like. How do you, and I wonder if this ever factors in where it's interesting because, you know, I come from one of my other companies, you know, I'm a consumer guy. So one of the things I talk about, I do consumer education. We had a service that did pretty well. But the issue of debt comes up quite a bit. And, you know, it's tricky to help people to not conflate consumptive debt with productive debt, right? And capitalizing appropriately. And I wonder if sometimes, again, you find some lingering emotions associated with, oof, man, you want me to go into debt$80 ,000 or$150 ,000 or something like that?

10:26And I'm like, well, yeah, because that's what it's going to take in order for you to get to here. You just need some runway here. Do you have that conversation, I would imagine? Yeah. I mean, it's very binary, right? So if you're very, very uncomfortable with taking on debt, and it's very common for a lot of people to feel that way, then the consequence is time and length of time. So how much time are you willing to compensate for that lack of money? So instead of working 50 hours a week, I'm going to ask that you work 80 for about six months so that you can compensate for that lack of$80 ,000.

10:57And or instead of doing this in five years, let's do this in 10 years. I mean, I'm just giving arbitrary numbers, but they're all just dials. It's all mechanics. It's really just helping the person figure out what they actually want, but the business wants to make money. It's not that scientific. It's us. It's the humans that make it hard. It's our feelings, emotions, and our values that make it hard. The business is actually very straightforward. Are there any books that you recommend on this topic? Like if, you know, that, that, you know, help maybe cool the temperature a little bit and start to think about our businesses a little bit more logically.

11:38I mean, yeah, I mean, I've, I, my favorite books, I could tell you are hard things of heart, heart, heart things of heart things by Ben Horowitz. And then straight from the gut by Jack Welch. And this is your ship is also three of my favorites that have really helped me formulate philosophically, like how I think about business in a very utilitarian fashion. Those three books have really shown me like the macro view of a business and how I can separate my emotions from the logic of it, right? Because those three books are very conceptually utilitarian. They're not really for the cause of the one individual or that story arc.

12:14It's like for the logic of the whole, right? And they're willing to sacrifice components of it to maximize the whole. And so it has a very utilitarian principality to it, those three books. And so that's really been a big influence in my understanding of how to separate myself when I'm being a strategist and then when I'm being a worker, right? And so I've been able to separate my heart and my mind a little bit by those three books. And then if I can give myself a little plug, I'm almost done writing my book. And so you can check me out at Always Hard to Subscribe to get the notification when my book launches.

12:46But my book is going to be called something along the lines of like Built Boring. or I don't, I'm still working on the title, but it'll be something about building businesses in a very boring fashion. And, um, and you don't have to have it be so exhilarating and exciting and, and life threatening and, and, you know, risking your house and mortgage and family. And you don't have to do that. In my opinion, you can build businesses pretty methodically. And I'm, I'm, I'm actually testing a lot of this, these concepts that I'm talking about as we speak. And I'm on year four or five of building 20 businesses that make a million dollars a year each.

13:17So. Yeah. Young, from here, where do people go in terms of resources that you have available? How do people engage with you? So I have a weekly newsletter that you can subscribe to on alwayshan.com. And I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn. I post every day. And I just share my business insights and lessons and things that I think about and learn. And those are two really great ways to get the content. And then if you're looking for more coaching and kind of guidance on this stuff, if you're sub$2 million owners club, owners.club, that's my small business coaching business and networking community.

13:56And then if you want me to actually help you like build in the business thesis.inc, and I'll, I'll actually, I, yeah, I'll be in your business. I'll be your finance guy. So I'll literally sit there and argue and debate with you and we'll make your business grow. Awesome. All right. The website, always hand.com always hand.com. I also want to give a shout out to your podcast as well, The Girl Dad Show, which again, you can search around in your podcast app and subscribe to. Young, great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey, thank you. Really appreciate you having me on.

14:37If you've enjoyed this conversation, I'd love to invite you to share your message with the world at podverified.com, where thousands of podcast hosts and thoughtful guests are connecting the right way. Podverified helps match you with the right stages for your level of authority. No more wasting time on brand new shows that just aren't a fit. Your guest authority score is free. And so are your first two podcast matches. Come hang out with me there. I'd love to learn more about your business, support your mission, and help promote you far and wide. Just head to www.podverified.com to get started.

15:20And of course, if you'd like to be a guest right here on The Thoughtful Entrepreneur, just go to upmyinfluence.com and click on podcast. Thanks Thanks for being a part of this movement. We rise by lifting others.