In short
Shareholders greenlit Paramount’s Ellison-family purchase of Warner Bros. Discovery for about $110B, but rejected CEO David Zaslav’s unusually large golden-parachute/tax “gross-up” pay package (estimated ~$500M–$800M; discussed as ~$887M). The episode also covers Wall Street skepticism about whether the deal can work, Netflix’s role and why it bid, and the influence of Middle East sovereign funds. It then shifts to the Michael Jackson biopic Michael: premiere reactions, fan enthusiasm, and criticism that it whitewashes/exonerates without engaging allegations.
Guests/backgrounds
Liz Hoffman, business/finance editor at Semaphore and veteran M&A reporter; also host of Compound Interest podcast. (Other contributors mentioned: Craig Horlbeck, art editor; John Jones.)
Key claims
The deal is a signpost that value can still be extracted from “dying” media, but skepticism remains (AI uncertainty, Netflix “hangover,” strategic confusion). Zaslav’s pay vote is advisory/non-binding; board likely won’t change it. Netflix’s breakup fee (~$2.4–$2.8B) should have gone to shareholders. Middle East funds are seeking strategic/economic returns more than influence.
Notable examples
AOL Time Warner “wall of shame” comparisons; Ted Sarandos quote about theatrical window vs “more for less”; Netflix lobbying over Nielsen gauge; Michael premiere crowd (Barry Gordy, Michael Myers, John Voight, Magic Johnson, Mookie Betts).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOWarnerMount Deal Overview
3:01 to 3:49
Discussion on the Warner Brothers and Paramount merger vote.
“From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town.”
Wall Street's Perspective on the Merger
3:49 to 5:40
Exploration of Wall Street's views on the implications of the merger.
“And like a real signpost for where the industry is going, right?”
Netflix's Role in the Deal
5:40 to 7:41
Analysis of Netflix's unexpected involvement in the merger discussions.
“at a time when like that thing is starting to throw some springs loose too.”
David Zaslav's Controversial Pay Package
7:41 to 11:12
Examination of the rejected pay package for Warner's CEO, Zaslav.
“and, you know, probably started the sort of clock ticking on bombers time there.”
Implications of Shareholder Votes
11:12 to 14:00
Discussion on the ramifications of shareholder votes on corporate decisions.
“He can stick up his middle finger at these shareholders and say, you know what?”
Warner Bros and Netflix Deal Analysis
14:00 to 19:06
A discussion on the implications of the Warner Bros and Netflix breakup fee and management decisions.
“It means they don't like it, that it feels gross.”
Corporate Governance and CEO Pay
19:59 to 26:50
Discussion on Zaslav's compensation and the implications of corporate governance practices.
“The main thing that a lot of these advisory firms are complaining about is this tax gross-up clause, which was added late in the game and would potentially cover Zaslav's tax hit on the severance package.”
Michael Jackson Movie Premiere Experience
26:50 to 28:02
Personal reflections on the premiere of the Michael Jackson movie and notable attendees.
“You and I went to the premiere on Monday night.”
Critique of the Michael Jackson Biopic
28:02 to 30:14
The hosts discuss their views on the newly released Michael Jackson biopic and its reception.
“I mean, there was a demonization of the accusers in this movie.”
Premiere Experience and Fan Reactions
30:14 to 31:32
The conversation shifts to the atmosphere of the film's premiere and fan enthusiasm.
“If I was a critic, I would have had a negative review, but I'm not.”
Show all 11 chapters
Box Office Predictions and International Appeal
31:32 to 32:39
The hosts speculate on the film's box office performance and its potential international success.
“I don't know what there seems to be some like rabid support of him where if you like him you have to absolutely adore him and there's no in between.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.
0:33Matt Belloni:This episode of The Town is presented to you by AMC Networks. Billy Magnuson and Zach Galifianakis star in the new series The Audacity on AMC and AMC+. Influence rises, people unravel, and CEO meltdowns are business as usual among Silicon Valley elite. Executive produced by Jonathan Glatzer, a writer-producer of Succession and Better Call Saul. Watch new episodes of The Audacity, Sundays exclusively on AMC and AMC+. It is Thursday, April 23rd. For better or worse, Warnermount is one very big step closer to becoming a reality. This morning, the shareholders of Warner Brothers Discovery voted to greenlight the$110 billion sale to Paramount and the Ellison family.
1:16Matt Belloni:The vote was overwhelming, they said, though we don't have the final certification yet. This was pretty much expected. Remember, the Warner stock was trading at about$8 or$9 before Larry and David Ellison came along. And the final deal values the company at$31 a share, an easy yes for these shareholders. They did not rubber stamp everything, though. Our guy David Zaslop, the CEO of Warner Discovery, his pay package was rejected by these shareholders. They voted no on a golden parachute valued at anywhere between$500 million and$800 million, thanks to the controversial tax reimbursement plan that is highly unusual in corporate America.
1:54Matt Belloni:We'll talk about that. Unfortunately, that vote is non-binding, so it's not clear what, if anything, this board will do in response. My guess, considering their past actions, is nothing. The deal isn't done yet, of course. There's the regulatory issues that we've talked about on the show, the whole movement to block it, the signature campaign that's now up to 4 ,000 Hollywood people. but a major milestone has been achieved and it's on track to close in the third quarter of this year as the Ellisons want with this all moving pretty fast I wanted to get the Wall Street view of this deal which is now the biggest ever in the media industry especially the Ellisons role the Netflix factor the Zaslav pay question he's been on a bit of a media tour lately to try to get everyone to think he really tried to save the company not sell it I'm not sure people believe that.
2:42Matt Belloni:So I got Liz Hoffman here today. Liz is the business and finance editor at Semaphore, the digital media outlet, and she's a veteran M &A reporter on all kinds of deals. We'll do a little on the Michael Jackson movie and the whole sordid backstory there, but today mostly it's the Warner Mount deal, One Step Closer, and The View from Wall Street. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town.
3:08Matt Belloni:All right, we are here with Liz Hoffman, business and finance editor at Semaphore, host of the Compound Interest podcast. Welcome, Liz. Hey, Matt. All right. I wanted you on the show because I really want the Wall Street view of this merger because obviously we had a big milestone this morning. Pretty much expected. It went down as we thought. It went down very quickly. And now we've got some next steps coming. But before we get there, give me your sense of how the general business finance M &A community is looking at this massive merger, biggest merger in media of all time. Yeah.
3:49Liz Hoffman:And like a real signpost for where the industry is going, right? If this works, if, you know, Warner Brothers inside Paramount can be, you know, sort of more relevant, better funded on more platforms, reaching new audiences, I think you'll see a lot more deals like it. It will be kind of a reminder that there is still like a little juice in this particular stone. Blood in the stone? What is it? Yeah, that like you can squeeze some value out of this dying, decaying industry. If it doesn't, this is just going to be right up on the wall of what were they thinking.
4:24Matt Belloni:Yeah, the AOL Time Warner wall. Honorary AOL Time Warner wall of shame.
4:29Liz Hoffman:You know, which, by the way, is heavy with media carcasses, right?
4:32Matt Belloni:Same company, by the way.
4:33Liz Hoffman:I've joked for a long time, just stop messing around with Time Warner. It has never worked for anybody. It didn't work for AT &T. The cable business was a mess. I mean, this thing has lost people a lot of money. It's lost almost everyone a lot of money over time, except David Zaslav, which I'm sure we can get into.
4:47Matt Belloni:We're going to get into that. But that's what I'm questioning about the Wall Street View here. Do you think people think this can work? Or are people looking at this being, man, what is Larry letting his kid do?
4:59Liz Hoffman:I think the prevailing sentiment for the moment is on the second of those two things. Though also fueling that skepticism is a real questions around Oracle and AI and Larry's wealth, right? That like, if, you know, if we were living in a more certain world about, you know, Larry could afford to spend, you know, some money on this, that would be one thing. but it is now somehow plugged into this AI economy around which there are a million uncertainties. And so, you know, I don't think it's going to be the thread that unravels that particular sweater. But it's just sort of like a reminder, at least to me, that a lot of parts of the economy are being plugged into the AI machine at a time when like that thing is starting to throw some springs loose too.
5:45Liz Hoffman:The other thing that I've been thinking a lot about and people I think are talking about is actually the player that's not here is Netflix. And I think, like, you're a much closer watcher of the media business than I am, but having covered M &A for a long time, I've seen a lot of M &A-related ag on people's faces. And I can't quite think of a situation where a potential acquirer came out of a process having sort of unnecessarily raised so many questions about their own business model and strategy as Netflix did here. So that I think is going to be a weird hangover.
6:16Matt Belloni:Why were they going after this? They had spent 20 years talking about how we're builders and they had a great business and they ran the rest of Hollywood off a cliff so much so that they're now going to try to pick up the Radford lot in the Valley for 300 and something million when it was valued at 1.8, I believe, a few years ago. But it did raise questions and they have kind of had to address that. The stock was down. Now it's come back up And they did some stock buybacks today, I think, for that purpose. They had great earnings. And yet, I think there's a lingering question as to why they felt they needed this.
6:52Liz Hoffman:I do, too. And that's, you know, they got this far, as you say, without a legacy studio. Like, why bother now? If they thought they needed it now, why weren't they building it earlier? This is a company that actually has seen around corners pretty well and, you know, pulled off one of the biggest kind of product pivots that, you know, modern corporate history. So like, where were they on this one? And if they don't actually need it, why were they willing to spend, you know, whatever it was,$80 billion to buy it? You know, like, that's the problem with transformational M &A, which is that if you swing and miss, you leave everyone wondering, well, why did you need to transform?
7:24Liz Hoffman:And, you know, it kind of reminds me of a long time ago, but when Microsoft went after Yahoo, 15, 20 years ago almost, they didn't get it. And, you know, I don't think it would have mattered. Microsoft was never going to make it as a consumer internet company, but it like raised a lot of questions about where they were in that era that took them like a while to recover from and, you know, probably started the sort of clock ticking on bombers time there. So these things can have like really long hangovers. And I was struck, I think when Ted Sarandos was sort of out doing, you know, beating the bushes and doing the media tour for this, he had gone on CNBC and said something that just like perfectly encapsulates why M &A is hard for people who don't do it.
8:04Liz Hoffman:Like in the same breath, he was saying, you know, I think it makes sense obviously for us to, you know, continue. He was talking about the theatrical window. He's talking to talent, you know, in one breath. And then immediately it was like, but you know, what we've always done for the American people is deliver more for less. And you're like, yep, those are two different statements for two different audiences. Good luck.
8:22Matt Belloni:Yeah, and to be fair to Netflix, I mean, they didn't have an opportunity to buy a studio like this. They don't come up for sale very often. And it's hard to prepare your business for a hundred years of IP. like that's what they were buying they were buying a library that they could plug in and they know the value of these libraries because they rent them from the other studios they're currently renting from sony and universal to a lesser extent and they license warner's movies so they see the value on the service and they say listen we got 2.8 billion dollars to walk away we drove the price up for a competitor who's gonna have to shovel 80 billion dollars in debt out of that company to make it work.
9:06Matt Belloni:A lot of people in the business and entertainment communities don't believe that the Ellisons will be able to make that math work. And ultimately, Netflix comes out of this fine. Do you agree with that?
9:18Liz Hoffman:I think certainly they made the deal a lot more expensive. And that's something like Comcast has kind of done well over the years. It's sort of a side hustle that some companies have going. I think that's fine. I don't know that it counterbalances any sort of strategic confusion that they may have sowed in their investor base for it.
9:35Matt Belloni:Where's the engagement coming from is the question. Yeah. If you are so worried about engagement that you need to buy this, people are going to start looking at those engagement numbers every quarter a little bit more skeptically.
9:49Liz Hoffman:Yeah. And that's a place where Netflix has been pretty opaque over the years. And you got to wonder, are they going to sort of come under some pressure to justify?
9:58Matt Belloni:Well, that's why they're fighting over the Nielsen gauge. There's this whole fight over Nielsen because they were going to change the calculation that would benefit linear. Netflix had a cow. And now they're putting that off till the fall. And I think that Netflix knows that that has become the default arbiter of how you're doing is how much time spent on TVs. And I know it drives Ted crazy to see YouTube leading that gauge every month because YouTube is just a different thing. I mean, most of the engagement on YouTube is garbage. It's not premium. It's not stuff that you would even know what it is.
10:38Matt Belloni:And he doesn't like that.
10:40Liz Hoffman:Yeah, yeah. I mean, they have a high class, you know, offering there. And, you know, it's sort of uncomfortably with the 800-pound gorilla, as you say.
10:48Matt Belloni:So back to the Warners thing, because while the shareholder vote on the merger was overwhelmingly yes, the vote on David Zasloff's pay package was overwhelmingly. Actually, we don't know the exact numbers on the pay package vote. They have not revealed them yet. They will at some point, but it didn't get through. Now, this is only advisory. This is non-binding. He can stick up his middle finger at these shareholders and say, you know what? I'm taking my money. But do you think sometimes companies see these votes and alter the packages? Take us through the process there and both how unusual this pay package is and what might happen next.
11:32Liz Hoffman:Yeah, it's just a ton of money. And look, to make the case.
11:37Matt Belloni:A crap ton. A crap ton of money, as Jim Cameron would say.
11:41Liz Hoffman:$887 million, I believe. And by the way, that's on top of, I think he got like 200 and something million when Warner was spun out of AT &T the first time around. So he's made a billion dollars. And look, to be fair, this deal got done at$30 or whatever it was, right? That is a huge premium over where the stock was trading a year, 18 months ago. You got to ask, why was the stock trading at$12 18 months ago? And the answer is that it wasn't a very well-run company.
12:10Matt Belloni:Oh, no, it was lower than that. It was like$7 and$8 before that.
12:13Liz Hoffman:I mean, this thing, the management here destroyed a lot of value and then created a lot because David Ellison really wanted to own this thing. So that is the market speaking. Did they create it?
12:24Matt Belloni:Or did Larry Ellison create it? I'm trying to be fair here.
12:27Liz Hoffman:I think that FOMO created it. But look, you have a generational asset. Someone really wants to own it. Like, who cares how you get there?
12:34Matt Belloni:Well, they did do things. They did things that made it more attractive. They created the studios and streaming unit that was tailor-made for a streamer to buy it because they didn't want TV networks. Netflix took the hook on that. They created that environment. But that's deal machinations. That's not value building.
12:56Liz Hoffman:Right. And yes, they spent a lot of money doing that too, right? That kind of work is expensive and time-consuming. And ultimately, maybe you could say it mattered because it brought Netflix to the table, which only wanted the one piece. But ultimately, the company got sold. Look, I've been doing this a long time. I don't get like super like wrapped around the axle on pay packages. This is a big one. And I'm not surprised that it got rejected. I don't think they'll retouch it. Like, you know, companies do that sort of on their annual pay packages because if you like fail these advisory, you know, if you get kind of under 70, 80 percent, kind of like one or two years in a row, you start to have a real problem with your board of directors and other things.
13:35Liz Hoffman:This is just sort of a one-time thing.
13:37Matt Belloni:But the board doesn't seem to care.
13:38Liz Hoffman:No, because they're not going to be around. Like, this is not a problem they're going to have to deal with next year.
13:43Matt Belloni:I mean, Glass-Lewis, the corporate governance experts, they said it was worthy of, quote, severe concern. ISS, the other one, said it, quote, represents one of the highest golden parachute estimates ever observed and is, quote, problematic.
Read the full transcript
13:58Liz Hoffman:I can't say that I disagree.
14:00Matt Belloni:Yeah, but what does that actually mean?
14:01Liz Hoffman:It means they don't like it, that it feels gross.
14:04Matt Belloni:No, I know they don't, but what does it mean for, practically speaking, the pay package? Is there a chance this board is shamed into altering it?
14:15Liz Hoffman:I don't think so. I mean, I'd be surprised. Again, you see boards react when the company is going to be around in a year and they're going to have to go back with another one. This company is going away. Like, this board is going away. Like, I don't think that thing will dog them. The thing that actually, like, I think is sort of most galling here, and you mentioned that was at$2.4 or$2.8 billion that Netflix is walking away with at breakup fee. Like that was put, that is owed to Netflix because Warner Brothers signed a deal with them before getting Paramount's best and final bid. Like that is money that should go to shareholders.
14:50Liz Hoffman:And if they should be mad about anything, it's that. Like, presumably there was another$2.8 billion of value. You do the math and that's more money per share. So that one, I really never understood why people were not asking tougher questions about how that process was run. And we saw some, like, texts come out. I think it was, like, Blair Effron at Centerview was kind of, like, trying last minute to say, we will pay more. Like, don't, you know, keep the papers unsigned.
15:15Matt Belloni:Zaslav wanted Netflix. Correct. I think Zaslav thought that there was a better chance of him staying on and running the unit if he were with Netflix. He's friends with Ted Sarandos. He got a bad vibe from the Ellisons. Like, all the signs were there. The whole, you know, ghosting him on text messages, like it was all, it was all there. But, and that gets to this whole press campaign that Zaslav has been on this past week. Unbelievable press campaign. There was a variety story in which David Geffen, one of Zaslav's good friends, he went on the record, which Geffen does not do very often, hates being in the media.
15:52Matt Belloni:He said, if you asked him, him being David Zaslav, if he'd rather have the job or the money, there's no doubt about that. He'd rather have the job. I really believe that. And Zaslav himself talked to the New York Times and said, my intention was never to sell the company. My intention was to build and run that company. We were in the middle of a generational disruption and had to make a lot of hard calls in the beginning. So, I mean, this is clearly him trying to make sure that he still gets dinner invites in LA after this deal closes. and everybody knows he walked away with$500 to$800 million.
16:32Matt Belloni:And he wants people to know that it was never his intention. I saw from the beginning, I was talking about this three years ago, I'm sure you were as well, that this entire transaction seemed set up to bolt the dying discovery networks onto something a little bit more viable, the Warner assets, the streaming service, and wrap it all up so a streamer or some other buyer would come along and buy it. Zasloff knew that. John Malone knew that. They all knew that the most likely outcome was a three to five year flip of these assets. And we know that because Zasloff's entire career has been about M &A, acquiring this, doing that.
17:17Matt Belloni:It's not been about running a movie studio or sitting behind Jack Warner's desk or going to dinner with Charlize Theron. it's been about hardcore m &a and leveraging and making money i kind of can't believe that he's trying to get us to think that he would have liked to stay in this job sure of course everybody wants to stay in the job as long as you can but the goal here was to make as much money as possible
17:43Liz Hoffman:i mean look i'll leave it to you to to put david zaslov on the on the couch you know better than
17:50Matt Belloni:You're not willing to call him a robber baron?
17:52Liz Hoffman:Clearly, this thing was, you know, we all said at the time, this thing was spun out to be sold. I mean, it was structured in a way it didn't have a lot of protections that you often see, like, attached to media companies. Like, you're a public company. You're for sale every day. And I actually had always wondered, I suspect it's just because the timing didn't work out, but someone should have just bought this from AT &T, right? Like, think about all the mishegas and hand-wringing and value that was wasted trying to stand up a public company and kind of make it work for a while. I think you're right.
18:16Liz Hoffman:This was always going to be tucked in.
18:17Matt Belloni:And what value did the Discovery assets bring to this transaction? Zero. The entire thesis of the Warner Discovery transaction was your TV networks and our TV networks and all the great HGTV shows and Dr. Pimple Popper, all of that would create a streaming service that would challenge Netflix globally. That failed. That entire strategy failed. So if AT &T had just gone directly to the Ellisons, obviously they didn't own Paramount yet, but if they had gone to the Ellisons or someone else, they could have cut David Zaslav out of this entire thing and prevented a giant value suck of money from the company.
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20:00Matt Belloni:The main thing that a lot of these advisory firms are complaining about is this tax gross-up clause, which was added late in the game and would potentially cover Zaslav's tax hit on the severance package. Have you ever seen this before? It seems like it's a relic that doesn't happen in M &A anymore.
20:17Liz Hoffman:You used to see it a lot more, and then it kind of went away for exactly the reason you're describing, is that the firms that make recommendations to shareholders don't like it. But, you know, with the companies—
20:29Matt Belloni:Everybody else pays taxes on their windfalls. Why shouldn't the CEO?
20:32Liz Hoffman:Absolutely. What the companies will say is, well, we intended for David Zaslav to have X amount of money as a reward for having done this thing. And we want to make sure that that is what he takes home. Again, I find it a little gross. Like, that is what tax lawyers do with their time. That's what people do with their time. It's not great.
20:50Matt Belloni:No, it's grotesque. And when you talk to Zaslav, I've talked to him about this. It just bounces off him. he's happy to engage with you on stuff like you know the value they brought to the company or the choices he's made in hiring executives and creatives but you start talking to him about the pay package stuff and it's like talking to uh you know an animatronic he just goes like robot mode and it's just like there's no engagement on it it's like he can't hear that everybody thinks
21:19Liz Hoffman:he's overpaid but you know it's interesting like it just doesn't matter you know i've been covering kind of corporate governance for like 15 years. And all of that time, we've only gotten more disclosure, right? There actually has been a push. Like if you're a shareholder and you want to know exactly what David Zaslav is getting out of this, it's not hard to find out. The company has to tell you right in the documents. And it's not even like hidden or in a lot of legalese. It's kind of right there. And it never matters. Like pay goes up every year across the board because these are fundamentally, they're signals that are being sent.
21:48Liz Hoffman:This is sort of a competitive, socially competitive market more than it is a financial one. They're not worried about David Zaslav leaving for a different job. He's already leaving for a different job. This is a signal that's being sent. Yeah.
21:58Matt Belloni:I do want to get into the money issues. The three Middle East funds, the Saudis, Abu Dhabis, Qataris, they are in this deal. And Paramount put out a statement this morning saying that they're moving forward on syndicating the equity in the company. They presumably are going to bring in more investors. Do you think the source of the money on this deal is a problem? Or is everyone's eyes just going to gloss over? And what kind of control do these or influence do these funds actually have, if any?
22:32Liz Hoffman:I mean, Netflix certainly tried to make it a thing, right? If you remember, and they did sort of force the deal to be kind of restructured in some ways. You know, I think like...
22:40Matt Belloni:According to my colleague, Eric Gardner, they are still trying to make this a thing. He reported this week at Puck that Netflix lobbyists are making those concerns about this deal known in Washington. Netflix denies that, by the way.
22:53Liz Hoffman:Sure. Look, I think if we'd gone back five or 10 years, you would have seen like some real questions around it. In part, I think for three reasons. One, our relationship with the Middle East has changed dramatically and like literally has changed dramatically in the last eight weeks, right? Like, I don't think the president's going to be making a lot of trouble for partners and quasi-allies in the Middle East right now. So that's one. Two, just like what is and isn't corporate control was a lot clearer back when I was covering M &A like 10 years ago at the Wall Street Journal. Like I was just, I just wrote a piece about it this morning, like particularly like what AI, the big AI guys are doing, like what is M &A anymore?
23:32Liz Hoffman:Like who even knows? What is control? People are like giving people tokens and not getting board seats. Like, I don't know. I think like that the sort of influence in the boardroom landscape has like has really changed um wait i said there were three things right that was one that was the other um uh oh and like there's just you know i think like particularly for the gulf they want different things than they used to right like when they sort of first like splashed on the sort of international finance scene they were really trying to buy like influence abroad this is when they were like throwing money at we work and like you know trying to do all kinds of crazy stuff.
24:08Matt Belloni:MBS and his Hollywood tour.
24:10Liz Hoffman:This was like, hello, we are here, we are rich. Like, you know, come to Riyadh and come to the—
24:14Matt Belloni:They're still doing that, though. They're still throwing around a lot of money.
24:16Liz Hoffman:No, but what's interesting is that— And then they went through a brief period where they really wanted sort of financial returns. They sort of became an investor. And to varying degrees at some of these, they're not all the same, so I don't want to paint with the same brush. But where they've really gone in the last couple years is they want economic returns. They want—they want— They're happy to spend money, but they want it to come back in like projects on the ground in like, like, you know, they threw a lot of money into the EV car Lucid, which is now building cars in Saudi Arabia. Not because that's like a logical place to build cars and then export them to Europe, but because Saudi wants an export economy.
24:49Liz Hoffman:And so I think, you know, the deal for electronic arts is an interesting one. Like they want something to come back. And actually like, I don't know, you could see like some, you know, Harry Potter theme parks in Abu Dhabi. That's not crazy to me. So like, what do they really want?
25:04Matt Belloni:Well, Disney is doing a park in Abu Dhabi, but yes. For sure. And they got out, they're getting out of Live Golf. And that seems like an economic decision.
25:14Liz Hoffman:It is an economic decision because they just like, they were throwing good money after bad and they weren't getting anything for it. That to me is like a very Saudi 1.0, 2.0 kind of investment. I think you are going to see them say, look, we still want to be in the sports game. We still want to be in the media game. And actually, one of the big sovereign wealth fund executives told my colleague, Matthew Martin, a few months ago, I can't remember which one it was, that if you play the AI futurism forward, entertainment is the last thing that's going to exist. When the robots do all the jobs, we're just going to be staring at screens all day.
25:42Liz Hoffman:So they're making some kind of large entertainment experiential.
25:46Matt Belloni:Except the entertainment will be robots also.
25:48Liz Hoffman:The entertainment will be robots also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a fight you would know more about than me in Hollywood.
25:54Matt Belloni:No, I do. And I'm joking there. I don't actually mean that.
25:56Liz Hoffman:Yeah, but I think that they're looking for more, I feel like strategic returns? Like, are they going to be monkeying around in like what the movies are? I don't, I mean, this is not a sort of a China cultural influence. I don't expect that.
26:12Matt Belloni:No, but if there is a moment on CNN or CBS that they don't like or a commentator, like, I wonder if they pick up a phone.
26:23Liz Hoffman:Sure, but isn't the problem for CBS or CNN just like a lot closer to home? Isn't the problem that the president of the United States also does that? Yeah. No, I know.
26:31Matt Belloni:And I think Ellison is at least smart enough to know to defer to his people on that front. The problem is the people he's chosen may not have the best judgment, but whatever, that's a separate conversation. All right, Liz, thank you very much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.
26:46Liz Hoffman:Thanks, Matt. This was fun.
26:49Matt Belloni:We are back with the call sheet. Craig, it's finally here. The Michael Jackson movie, Michael. You and I went to the premiere on Monday night. I'm glad you got to see that because it was very much an old school premiere in the sense that it was gigantic there was a lot of hooting and hollering during the screening because they packed it with Michael Jackson fans it was at the Dolby, it was a huge crowd it was completely packed and it played like Avengers Endgame in the room absolutely, every time Barry Gordy comes on the screen it's like, holy shit it's Barry Gordy yes you know Michael's various incarnations like people cheering the party was fun they took over the Roosevelt had the full outdoor party dinner full dinner served at 11 o 'clock at night just like the old style premieres who's the oddest person you saw at the premiere well one I didn't know Mike Myers was in the movie so seeing him because he's always disguised in makeup in the film so we barely knew it was him we saw him at the premiere that scene he's in is a little cringy for me I don't want to give it away but I cringed a little at that scene I agree and then we saw john voight just kind of roaming around the dance floor uh mookie betts that was a good one was there yeah yeah that's the dodgers was there magic johnson was there yeah there you could definitely tell when magic's sitting four rows in front of you i gotta give it to john voight man that music was loud as hell he was like 15 feet from the dj table walking through a crowd i know good good stuff there amazing we don't have to get into what you and i thought of the movie nobody should care what we think of these movies i will say though that i think it's a generational thing i enjoyed a lot of the recreations of the 80s stuff like the motown performance and the thriller video you were less enthralled with that i don't know but i i just think i i thought it was incredibly entertaining as well but i'm just more cynical about it like i think in polite terms you can call this movie a crowd pleaser fan service is probably better sure and a whitewashing i mean there's nothing in it that engages with the accusations but i gotta tell people listen i have read the original script for this movie the one they couldn't make and if you want the description of the movie that they wanted to make i i will tweet it because i wrote about it in my newsletter.
29:08Matt Belloni:I mean, there was a demonization of the accusers in this movie. It was a total image reclamation process. It was exonerating him in a movie. Yes. They wanted to show that these were all money grubbing accusers that did not actually have much legal or factual standing. Michael is like the victim here. He gets strip searched in the script for the original. Who knows if we'll see that in part two but there is a real there was a real effort by the estate and producer graham king to exonerate michael not just whitewash and not address it which is what this movie does but to actively take on the accusations and tell people that they are false so we didn't get that movie we got this movie people are criticizing it for not engaging with the accusations but it could have been it could have gone even further um and maybe the fans would have loved that i think the fans will like this movie the tracking is about 70 million which would make it the biggest opening for a biopic a musical biopic um the current record holder for domestic is straight out of compton at 60 million domestic bohemian rhapsody did 51 million domestic now those are not adjusted for inflation and were over a decade ago uh this movie i think despite the reviews the reviews are bad um critics not loving this i think this movie will hit the over i agree i i'm not letting the negative reviews influence me i think the average person sees the trailer to this movie and is like that looks great i love billy jean i love thriller i'm gonna go see that and all of those sequences in the movie are fantastic and i gotta say jafar jackson as michael jackson is is fantastic he's he's amazing i think coleman domingo's great i just felt like once you get over the fascination of watching Jafar Jackson play Michael Jackson, there's not a lot there outside of the musical performance.
31:01Matt Belloni:No, there's not. If I was a critic, I would have had a negative review, but I'm not. And I'm reviewing this from a business perspective and they play the hits and it's a very easy to watch movie. Yep. And fans will like it. And I think the question is not opening weekend because we saw the enthusiasm in the room amongst the fans. It was such a bizarre scene at the premiere. It was like a mix. It's like with Michael Jackson, everything. it's just craziness there's craziness associated with him all everywhere he goes it's just crazy there were a lot of business people there we saw a lot of like the kind of older hollywood people that were involved with him and and and were contemporaries and then we just saw these crazy fans that were dressed up that were just going nuts when they played the music even when that opening note in the movie of don't stop till you get enough like people just stood up and started screaming.
31:54I know. I don't know what there seems to be some like rabid support of him where if you like him you have to absolutely adore him and there's no in between.
32:02Matt Belloni:I know. And they show a lot of that in the movie. It's very much a lot of shots of fans fainting and being carried out and things like that. But again, what the fans want. The question on this movie will be the second and third weekend. It's up against Devil Wears Prada and with the reviews not being good, I think maybe they lose some of the looky loos that might have come in. second or third weekend, but the fans will show up. So I'm taking the over. I agree. I don't, and I don't think word of mouth is going to be bad. I think obviously this movie will do incredibly well internationally. I think people are going to leave this movie happy and tell their friends.
32:35The musical numbers were great. You got to see it.
32:37Matt Belloni:You think so? I do. Maybe, maybe I'm overestimating that. We'll see. Okay. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Liz Hoffman, producer, Craig Horlbeck, art editor, John Jones. And I want to thank you. We will see you next week.
From the publisher
Matt is joined by Semafor’s business and finance editor Liz Hoffman to discuss Wall Street's view of the Paramount-Warner Bros merger, this morning's WBD shareholder vote to approve the $110B deal, the non-binding rejection of David Zaslav’s exorbitant pay package, how the board will respond, and Netflix’s reputation after its push to acquire Warner Bros (00:32). Then, Matt and Craig recap the ‘Michael’ premiere, discuss the sordid backstory of making of the movie, and give their opening weekend box office prediction (25:50).
Host: Matt Belloni
Guest: Liz Hoffman
Producers: Craig Horlbeck and Jon Jones
Theme Song: Devon Renaldo
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