Unpacked: Editor-in-Chief of Travel & Leisure Magazine, Jacqui Gifford on travel trends + hot destinations for next year

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1:28Hello and welcome to the Travel Diaries Unpacked, the show where we bring you the latest travel news, trends, inspiration and insider tips from some of the most knowledgeable people in the industry. I'm your host Holly Rubenstein and today I'm joined by someone who has her finger on the pulse of the travel world. Jackie Gifford, the editor-in-chief of Travel and Leisure magazine, one of the world's most influential travel magazines, travel and leisure, if you're based in the US. Jackie first joined me on the Travel Diaries back in 2020. And wow, how much has changed since then. She has been in London for Travel and Leisure's inaugural International World's Best Summit held at the Dorchester this week, bringing together some of the biggest names in hospitality and travel to explore the trends shaping the future of the industry.

2:23And that's exactly what we're diving into today. From the rise of Caucasians and the return of slow travel to multi-generational holidays, the impact of AI and what truly exceptional hotel service looks like. Jackie also shares some of her most memorable recent trips, including a spectacular escape to Brazil, a very special journey aboard Britain's newest luxury sleeper train, and the Italian hotel that reminded her what great hospitality is really all about. This is a lovely convo packed with travel inspiration and some genuinely fascinating insights into how and why we're traveling. So without further ado, let's get unpacked with Jackie.

3:10Jackie, welcome back to the Travel Diaries. It is so lovely to see you.

3:15Jacqui Gifford: How are you? I am great. I'm in London. So London is one of my favorite cities. I can never complain when I'm here. I'm just in a great mood. You know, you first appeared on The Travel Diaries back in 2020. So, I mean, gosh, a lot has happened in travel since then. A lot more places to chat about. A lot more chapters in your travel diaries. That is for sure. I would say that the world has changed so much in the past seven years, and both for me personally, professionally. And I think we're in this really interesting moment where travel is at the top of everyone's wishlist in a way that I frankly would have never even predicted back in 2020 when we were stuck at home for the most part and just sort of traveling locally.

3:59Jacqui Gifford: But the way that it is now just this like hunger for people to be out there and living their lives and seeing new places at a really frantic pace signals to me many things, which we're going to talk about today. That's really interesting that you've picked up on that. Obviously, as the editor-in-chief of Traveller Leisure, you're going to be really picking up on all these trends. And you're over here in London for the World's Best Summit, where you're going to be talking through loads of these fascinating topics and travel. But just going back to that hunger then, do you feel as though that is a response mainly to us not being able to travel for a few years and it like a rebound effect?

4:38Jacqui Gifford: I think that's part of it. I think that people still feel as if life is fleeting. There's just a lot of turmoil and uncertainty in the world right now, whether it's geopolitical, economic. And for whatever reason, going to a new place and meeting new people where they are, I think kind of restores some of that humanity back in our souls. And I do still think the pandemic, although people don't like to talk about it anymore, and that's really a conditioning, a mental thing. I've studied pandemics, previous pandemics through literature. And what you realize is the brain is trained to forget trauma.

5:19Jacqui Gifford: And so you just move on. This didn't happen. What actually did happen is that people were stuck at home. The world countries were closed for years. We forget how Australia, I'm finally going next year. It was closed and you had to quarantine and do all these things. And we just sort of forget about it. But there was this real thing where people weren't able to be on planes. So I think the natural response is do it now while I can. Carpe diem. Exactly. And I think there's also something separate going on, which is this idea of longevity and what that really means we can dive into when we talk about wellness.

6:01Jacqui Gifford: But I think that people are certainly living longer in some respects and in their mentality, meaning I want to be healthy. I want to see the world and certainly in the United States that the baby boomer Gen X generation, there's a great wealth transfer from them to the younger generations that's happening right now. And travel is one of the ways for everyone to be together and bond and multi-generational travel, which I can't frankly talk about enough to a certain degree is driving a huge amount of the travel industry. It's changing the physical spaces of hotels. They're building more suites. It's changing the villa product.

6:46Jacqui Gifford: It's changing how we think about air travel. It's changing everything. And now that is because families weren't able to be together during the pandemic. Coming out of that pause, everyone's prioritizing time with family and friends. And that's so important. In a way, that's quite a beautiful outcome of a bad situation, isn't it? That people have re-evaluated how to spend their precious days of holiday and they want to spend it with all of their family. What destination would you pick if you were traveling with your family, multi-generational? I would pick a cruise. Now, what I mean by that is, and it could be to any place.

7:30Jacqui Gifford: My father and mother are now in their 80s and we deal with mobility challenges. We deal with logistical challenges that sometimes necessitates us. Going to the airport can be a challenge with them at this point in time. And it's not that they don't have big dreams and they've done a ton of travel. But the beauty of being on a cruise is we can take various pauses and come back together, meaning they can go do their thing. I can go out and do an excursion. I can have a meal with them. My son can be by the pool with my father. So I personally think it's actually less about the destination and more about the method of the trip.

8:15Jacqui Gifford: And similarly, that's why we were in the Bahamas recently and we stayed at Albany and Bahamur at the Rosewood and we booked bigger rooms and it was all there. And the reason, and it's not a very long trip, but actually I just posted about this. It was convenient. And it was because nobody wants, when we're trying to maximize our time, nobody wants to sit on a plane for eight hours to go away and have a good time. And that's, And that's fine. I can admit that. In the sense that years ago, we would do safaris with them, we went to India with them, and some of those trips just aren't in the cards anymore.

8:50Jacqui Gifford: Yeah. Yeah. I thought, wow. Yeah. That's really fascinating about the cruising element because I wasn't sure whether as somebody with your kind of position in travel, whether there would be a bit of, um, well, what's the right way to put it? Sometimes has a reputation for not getting actually to see the destinations that you're kind of, you're not really, you're only seeing the like touristed little pockets, but also that it attracts only older people. But you did this trip with your son as well, right? I've done tons of, I've done Explorer with my parents. I did a Regent cruise, just my son and my husband in Alaska years ago.

9:29Jacqui Gifford: My parents and I did Silver Sea in Alaska together. Here's something, I'm going to say something controversial. The travel industry is really hung up on doing travel the right way. Meaning I have to see every corner of a destination to prove to I don't know who that I am somehow more educated, more in tune with the local community, more in tune with something. And again, I don't know who we're proving this to, but there are trips that some people take to truly where they can dip in one day and do all that. And then the next day, come back and just sit in their room and read a book. And there's nothing wrong with that.

10:18Jacqui Gifford: And I think that that's where we're really stuck to a certain degree with these prescribed notions of the right way to travel. And I think that unfortunately, we also, there's a bit of ageism in it too, whereas, and I just am talking about it more freely because I'm really living it and in it. When people have mobility challenges, sight challenges, they can mentally be really sharp and still want to do all these things, but they physically can't. So like, are you going to say to that person, well, you've got to go to Rome and it can only be done this one way. I'll give you a good example. My parents, when we did our cruise, ended up staying an extra night.

11:01Jacqui Gifford: We had to get back home. And they went to the Cavalier Hilton, which is where they stayed years ago in the 60s. It was one of Hilton's first really big international hotels, Conrad Hilton, that glamour era by the pool. I have pictures of them by the pool, which I sent ahead to the hotel. The hotel made them a special card. They had dinner there. They had the time of their lives. and my mother went to the concierge and said, we can't really walk very far, but we would love to just go and do a driving tour of the city. So they booked them a car to just take them around Rome so they could see the main sites again.

11:38Jacqui Gifford: Is that any more or less authentic than what I think we are all expecting? I don't have an answer to that. So I think we have to, as an industry, be more tolerant slash meet people where they are. in their travel journey. I really, really like that. And I completely agree. And I think what your parents did is wonderful. It's wonderful. Right. Assisted to go and see the sites. I mean, what more could you ask for? What more do you need? And also, I will say, the other part of it is, as you as I've traveled more, and I'm just more comfortable in certain destinations are just like getting out there.

12:19Jacqui Gifford: I think that we also need to leave room for more spontaneity in travel, meaning that there's this tendency because everyone's afraid of doing the wrong thing to really plan every single trip to the nth degree. And I think that that can lead us to some weird places as well when sometimes some of your favorite parts of the trip or when you walk down a street and walk into a new shop or a bar or a cafe and just let it go. And that is the way we used to travel, frankly, before things were so digitally prescribed. And I do want us to all feel empowered to let that kind of travel breathe. I feel like that kind of weaves in a little bit to one of the conversation topics at the summit, which is slow travel, in the sense that, you know is this this is something that's wonderful and and is it is a luxury what what does slow travel mean to you now Jackie and do you think that you can buy into the notion of slow travel while not having the time to be especially slow yes I am going to give you a good example of this so I took my son actually here to the UK for the first time as our like mother-son trip together without my husband.

13:43Jacqui Gifford: And we did the Belmont Britannic Explorer. And so train travel is really trending. And I think what people, what they like about train travel or what they think they're going to like about train travel is the idea that you are sort of captive on this old school method of getting around and you get dressed up. And there was a lot about the trip that came true. And then there were some parts of it that were actually more surprising. And I would say one of the most surprising things, because again, your days are pretty prescribed. It's sort of like a cruise ship. You actually stick together with the other passengers and your days are fairly set because the train stops.

14:25Jacqui Gifford: You've got it. It's all timed. But one afternoon we had four hours to ourselves and we became friends with this other couple and we just ended up playing Monopoly for four hours. And it was, and so I don't think that that kind of interaction would have necessarily happened on another, maybe on a cruise. It wouldn't have happened on another style of trip because we were in such close quarters. You were forced to talk to people. And to me, that's a little bit of what this movement is. It's allowing time for reflection. And I do think whatever slow travel we're going to talk about at the summit, we're going to talk about what it means because it can mean different things to different people.

15:10Jacqui Gifford: But I think the big picture meaning of slow travel is really a response to digital life and connectivity, which is overwhelming for some people right now. Yeah, totally. For people who aren't familiar with the Britannic Explorer, certainly sounds like an incredible trip. What was the itinerary and what was it like for your son as well because how old is he? He's 11. At that time he was he was just he was still 10 about to be 11 so the Britannic Explorer is Belmont's newest train it does three night itineraries all across the UK three different three different paths you can combine them we did the Lake District but it also offers Cornwall and Wales and the big highlight for us for me personally we went to our farm, which is Simon Rogan's real, I would say, headquarters.

16:06Jacqui Gifford: It's the farm where in the Lake District where he sources all of his produce. Rogan does all the cuisine on the train, the menus, and his team is awesome. And so by going to our farm, we actually had a beautiful, and I wrote about this, farm to table is so overused. But in this case, it really was farm to table because we were literally at a farm. But we were at this farm right next to the greenhouses where all the broccoli and the lettuce and all the things are sourced. And they did this beautiful roasted lamb, fresh bread, sauces, just an incredible salad with all the ingredients that were primarily from the farm.

16:47Jacqui Gifford: And it was just unbelievable. And that was like a three-hour lunch. And I thought it was one of the most well-executed meals I'd have ever had. So that's also a version of slow travel. A lot of people, at least in the US, I don't know about here, we kind of rush between meals. Maybe that's a New York thing. So for me, having three hours at a real or two hours even at a real meal is so luxurious. Totally. And gives you the opportunity to actually savor the food and take in the experience. And like you mentioned, connect potentially with other people or the person that you're traveling with along the way.

17:28Jacqui Gifford: Exactly. Exactly. It's so funny, even just being here in London, there's a reason Americans are obsessed with tea and why they come here and want to book a tea because it's a meal that we don't normally have at home. So it's a ritual that's a forced pause. And I think that that is, it's something that people just enjoy doing because it's, it feels nostalgic, but also it's actually a time when you really need a break in your day. And that's, there's something a little bit slow travel-esque about a quintessential tea. What's your favorite London afternoon tea? Browns. Browns. Classic. That's an excellent one.

18:10There is one that I'm hoping to do in a couple of weeks. Do you have Julia Donaldson books in the US that are kids obsessed with, like The Gruffalo? Do you know The Gruffalo? I don't, but you're asking the wrong person because I've,

18:27Jacqui Gifford: I'm moving into the tween phase. Of course, you're like in Harry Potter worlds and all of that. So I'm not in, I'm not in. So if Gruffalo is like the five to six-year-old range, I'm probably not. I might have missed my window. Or younger, or younger. But she is the best-selling author in the UK of all time, Julia Donaldson. She does loads of children's books. And the Raffles, which is another place to do an amazing Raffles community. and Raffles at the Owo have got a new Gruffalo tea that I'm taking my daughter to in a few weeks. So that's another one too. Maybe I should just do it. I'll just go on my own and do it.

19:04I think that you should. I mean, they're all adorable. There are some amazing ones in London. There's one by the Natural History Museum where they do all dinosaur themes and there's like smoke coming out. I mean, it is a really great thing to do. If you're coming to London, book an afternoon tea. It has to be on your bucket list of things to tick off. Totally. you think totally i'm afraid you have come for not our best weather here in a named storm and and you know it's hard to believe that we had such a baking summer but one of the themes on your your summit program is the coolcation now again this has been something that we've we've been talking about for a few years but i feel like this after this summer it's really gonna be at the forefront of everyone's minds now.

19:52Jacqui Gifford: And listen, we planned this, we planned this talk in advance, knowing that this had been accelerating. But then to your point, this summer, it just became obvious to me that so obvious that this is actually going to be a real thing, that it's just too hot at certain, in certain destinations. For some people, they're just not comfortable traveling in that. With that in mind, where are the destinations that you are seeing rise to the fore? Sure. We're seeing a huge amount of interest in Scandinavia, in truly the north, whether that's Sweden, Denmark, and certainly Norway too. There's a huge amount of interest in those destinations.

20:37Jacqui Gifford: And let's be honest, those destinations in the winter are not everybody's cup of tea because they're incredibly dark. The season is quite short. There's also been a renewed interest in Iceland. Iceland has never not been popular, but I think for a few years, I remember even as I was starting at Travel and Leisure, it was riding this wave of interest. And then it dipped a little bit. And now because of the simultaneous interest in celestial travels, watching the stars and sort of looking and, you know, literally being connected to planet, feeling more connected to planet Earth and the amount of watching the Northern Lights, people are really interested in that.

21:14Jacqui Gifford: And Iceland has had some peak viewing. I also think Canada, there's certainly, I was in Vancouver, British Columbia for when we did our Alaska cruise and we started it there and we were there in July and the temperature was glorious. It was, there was some rain and there were some cooler temperatures, but that was actually part of the experience. We were also in the wilderness environment. So I will say, when we say going north and a Caucasian, I think it has to, the types of experiences that people are going to gravitate towards combine nature, restorative medicine with sort of a, there has to be like a little bit of an urban environment too.

21:58Jacqui Gifford: So people will be pairing like I just did. It was Vancouver for a couple nights, then we went out to a wilderness lodge. So maybe people might do Stockholm and then go out to the islands. So they're getting a bit of both. But Toronto and Muskoka. Why not? I mean, look, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I'm never I'm not saying that Italy, Greece and certainly Spain, those destinations and Portugal, for that matter, will continue to be popular. It's really an infrastructure challenge that is so large and vast. We'll talk about it, obviously, at the summit, but it's about air conditioning.

22:35Jacqui Gifford: It's about, you know, there's a lot that needs to happen. And it's so, it's so, it's a hard challenge to tackle. I was in Switzerland myself this summer in San Maritz, which is an incredible destination. The end of August, we stayed at the Kempinski and there's no air conditioning in the hotel. Now, luckily, we were there towards the end of August, beginning of September. So temperatures had cooled. We were able to open the windows. It was fine. And we had a fan. And in Switzerland, the way that the regulations work, it's really up to each individual region. And certainly you can add, you have to add air conditioning and you can apply for permitting, but for some places it's just logistically not possible.

23:17Jacqui Gifford: It's not going to be possible or cost prohibitive. So I think then you go to Bredruz Palace, for example, which is in downtown St. Moritz, the old historic palace, there's no air conditioning. The new wing, the Chateria wing does have it. So some travelers will book and stay there instead. Look, it's just, it's a reality. And it's also, it's the world we're living in. Where I grew up in Pennsylvania and now live in New York City, I remember three, four or five big snowfalls a year and that would impact how we were getting to work. We don't get that kind of snow anymore. So that's just the way of the world.

23:58So in fact, it's actually quite a big tip if you are traveling in Europe to just make sure that it's not a given that where you're choosing to stay has aircon.

24:11Jacqui Gifford: Never. It's never a given. And listen, in some of the big urban destinations, it's been certainly in London. But even on the Britannic Explorer, our room was air conditioned. Some of the main cabins there, the temperature was warm. So it just is what it is. And I'm just speaking for, and this is like the age old thing, like it's like room temperature water versus ice. Americans like air conditioning and that's just how we are. And you come to Europe and it's never a given. And now though, you are seeing some of the temperatures truly when it's hitting 95, 100, that's a new level of heat we've never seen before.

24:49Is there a trip that you've taken recently in the past couple of years that you're still chatting about to everyone that like when you're meeting up with your personal friends for dinner and they're saying like where have you been to recently Jackie that's amazing because obviously you're traveling the whole time is there one that you're like well this yeah this was the one I went to

25:08Jacqui Gifford: Brazil this year for the first time and Brazil was everything I expected but then 20 ,000 times more and we stayed at the Awasi Santa Catarina so Santa Catarina state in the south which has incredible beaches. And to me, and we were there during their fall, it was our spring break, the weather was perfect. We had the most perfect breakfast every day, fresh fruits, all these jams and things that were homemade where I didn't even know these fruits existed. The seafood was phenomenal, the meats, the local wines. And in the States, we don't really get Brazilian wines. It's just too hard to get them.

25:47So there was this surprise factor. in, I think, in that I knew it would be breathtaking, but the actual, the actual

25:59Jacqui Gifford: landscapes and the setting of the hotel, it felt like there was just good energy there. And sometimes you stay at a place where you can tell it was built right. It was, there was intention behind it. And it was a previous hotel called Ponte dos Ganchos and Awasi took it over and had kind of flipped the model. And that was a surprising trip because we went to Brazil expecting to have a great time, but the way that it turned out, it just was even better. And we saw capybaras, which were so fun. And they just were like waddling by the gift shop and the main lobby area. And they are the strangest looking animal I have ever seen.

26:46Jacqui Gifford: I mean, they give you the creeps, I have to say, a little bit. It's either the world's largest rodent or one of the world's largest rodents, but they look sort of more like pigs to a certain degree. And there was a mom, capybara, and one or two babies, and it was so big. And it was just a weird looking animal. And people are so obsessed with them. They fly to Japan to go to capybara cafes. So you're like, what? This is so, oh yeah, there's this whole Capybara cafe movement. But there's all sorts of things, but this was something surprising. Oh yeah. So where did you fly into? We flew into Sao Paulo.

27:29Jacqui Gifford: We were there for a night and it was also great. We stayed at the Utker Collection Hotel Palacio Tangara. And that hotel, which is in a park, was so chic and so fun because we got there on a Saturday morning. We did a soccer tour, which was so cool. Scott Dunn arranged this amazing soccer tour of the museum. And we were quick in and out because we didn't have a ton of time, but we got a chance to really understand the football culture at this historic stadium, which is now partly a museum. And then we went to the hotel and they had the fishwada sort of brunch set up. And that's the traditional pork, really hearty stew.

28:12Jacqui Gifford: And you put the cracklings in it. And we had just an amazing people watching experience because we were looking at all these families come in for brunch and there was music. So even though we were just there for one night, it did, again, you know, in the travel universe, I would have loved to have spent more time there. And there are plenty of ways into a destination. I had 24 hours and I felt like it was a magical 24 hours to just be in this thriving artistic city. Taste it. And then did you have to fly again? Yes. And then we flew on and we were there for five nights, came back and then flew home.

28:57Jacqui Gifford: And that's how we do it. When we spoke last, so you're based in New York, the big kind of long weekend or kind of five nighty destinations that were trending were the big cities in Mexico, like San Miguel, Oaxaca places that are you know very much on the radar of US travelers but actually apart from Mexico City and say like Cabo and Tulum you know European travelers don't so much get to those destinations because there aren't the same direct flights and so on so are those still the kind of big popular destinations for east coast travelers would you say people are still going any other new ones yeah people are still going for sure I mean San Miguel Dayende continues to win in our world's best awards.

29:41Jacqui Gifford: And it's a phenomenal place for art and culture. And the interest has not waned. I would say there are definitely, I mean, there's a renewed interest in Cartagena and Colombia. And there's a new Four Seasons that just opened there, which looks, in a historic building, which looks phenomenal. People are definitely interested in Colombia right now. The other thing I would say Iceland for us for five days is doable. And it's a really quick flight from the East Coast of the US. So people are going to do the thermal spas. They're going to be in nature. That's on the uptick and the upswing again. The other thing I think for five nights, I mean, I love Bermuda personally.

30:27Jacqui Gifford: Bermuda from the East Coast is really easy. It's a 90-minute flight from New York or Philadelphia or Charleston or any of those destinations. And it's this kind of historic glamour. And it's just this really, really beautiful. The beaches there are next level. But the actual architecture and the colorful homes and the Port of Hamilton, it's a pretty accessible destination. And you could go for five nights and feel like you really had a chance to unwind. From your experience, when is best to go? Because it's not south in the Caribbean. It's not. So the best time to go, I would say end of May through August is really the peak season.

31:11Jacqui Gifford: I have been in September and October, and sometimes you have total sunshine and sometimes we've had a few days of rain. But it is a great, that's also a great time. Of course, you're headed into sort of the more stormy season because that's when things come up from the Caribbean and head up to the East Coast. but people go to Bermuda in November still and the weather is just fine. So there's the really tough months are really January, February and March. Today's episode is supported by Una Italian Hospitality. You know how much I love Italy and it's somewhere I'm always happy to return to once summer is over.

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34:03Not for everyone. Individual results vary. Risks and benefits at springsleep.com. so on to a couple of the other topics that you're going to be covering off um on the summit AI obviously is something that didn't exist really when we last chatted and wasn't a factor in our holiday planning so what are your feelings about AI when it comes to travel now Jackie oh gosh I

34:31Jacqui Gifford: have lots of feelings about AI by the way I watched Terminator 2 Judgment Day on the plane coming over Let's, it is by far, it's such an amazing movie. I forgot how good it was. And there's lots of, there's lots of applications to where we're at today. No, the thing that, what you said actually was really interesting. It's like, it didn't exist when we were talking. It did. It just didn't exist in the forums that people are now fluent in, which is, you know, chat GPT, how it's impacted Google search. these new ways of AI being more consumer-facing, more forward-facing have really changed how people are planning travel, how they're searching for travel.

35:16Jacqui Gifford: I think, and I've talked about this recently, I think it is an incredible tool. I can give you one thing that I just did recently with it. I went into ChachiPT. I have all of my travel information scattered in various places, right? Our frequent flyer things, passport. And I just like fed that data in and I said, can you please create a Gifford travel brief? Like so that I have all of our information in one cohesive and it did it in five seconds. So it's wild, right? And so now I have our travel preferences, all that stuff, dietary, like everything, passports saved. And so if I'm ever working with a travel company, I can go here.

36:04Jacqui Gifford: So there's some of the logistical nuts and bolts. Such a good idea, by the way. It is a good idea. I was like, why didn't I think of it before? So there's some of the logistical stuff that I think has made it easier where I think people, what I think people are underestimating. And that could come down to like, AI, can you please create like a little roadmap or driving distance, a chart for me to go from here to there and planning a road trip, whatever. There's utility. The thing that I think is certainly harder to quantify in the luxury space is that a lot of people still want a human to help them when things go wrong, or they want that level of taste and access that AI doesn't really have.

36:47Jacqui Gifford: It's a computer. It's a thing. Computer is not even the right word. So there's a way that the industry, I think, is using it to streamline and speed up the way that the back of the house stuff works. So that way they can spend more time on some of these more nuanced points that travelers really want to experience. And certainly from talking to a lot of the trade, a lot of travel advisors, that's what they're doubling down on is really that human connection and understanding, okay, well, the traveler is going to get to this hotel at this time. What's the surprise and delight moment that I want ready there and waiting for them?

37:31Jacqui Gifford: And that still needs a human to potentially think of it and then execute on it. And I think the thing is, at this moment in time, at least, you know, you also just can't guarantee that the AI response doesn't include hallucinations or inaccuracies. for sure I just went to London Zoo with my my baby and my daughter and I asked it to plan a route so that I could you know stop and feed the baby at these different points and have have you know see see all the animals that we wanted to see and it it literally just clearly didn't know and made the whole thing up yeah so I would if I hadn't have cross-checked it with a human person I'd have been zigzagging all over the zoo and it would have been a complete disaster.

38:15So we're not really at that stage yet, are we? Where we can be sure that it's right.

38:19Jacqui Gifford: No. And also people are, I've heard, I've never had this happen to me personally. So I'm just reflecting and sharing anecdotes that I've heard from people that, certainly from travel advisors, that clients come to them with ideas they've found online and some of it is generated by AI and they don't know. They don't know that it is. and they go, I want to stay here. And while lo and behold, the here is fake. Well, Jackie, there are so many other big trends that I want to quickly cover off. We might have to go through them slightly more briefly. One thing is service. And like you mentioned, the surprise and delight element.

38:58What do you think is the best example of service you've experienced in the past few years? Something that you will still remember?

39:05Jacqui Gifford: I stayed at Pasolacqua this summer with my family and Pasolacqua has won all the awards. We featured it on our cover a few years ago, just as it was starting to pick up attention. And what I noticed about Pasolacqua and what Valentina has created is the visuals of the antiques and the rooms and all the sumptuous things are absolutely spot on. And she has impeccable taste, but actually the staff and the people, the team that works there, they listen really carefully. And so I'll give you a good example. Alberto, who is one of the top hotel managers there, heard that Bobby loved the chickens. And you can just walk and see them.

39:45Jacqui Gifford: It's pretty easy. And he wanted to name all of them. And he had names for all of them. And he wanted to put cards on their little chicken coop thing. And so I didn't think anything of it. He came back in an hour and he had the cards. He had the cards and he had pen and they went over there and he put the little stickers up on the thing. And it was like, Bobby was like, this is the coolest thing in the world. And so I think it was like a moment of active listening, which I even wasn't attuned to. So it was really cool. It was like, okay, you know, they really are listening to what their guests are asking for.

40:25Jacqui Gifford: And that's a very strange request, but it's actually not that hard to execute on. It wasn't. They just got little things, cards and paper, and he thought it was the bee's knees. So I think that so much of what we're supposed to do in hospitality is really make people feel at home. And sometimes, this is going back to what I said earlier, it can be something really small. I use this example too, and it's a really good one. So I think the Mandarin Oriental here in Mayfair a few years ago, they went on my social media and saw that I love books. And what they did, they actually got two books for me and left them by my bed by authors that they knew I would like and or topics they thought I would like.

41:19Jacqui Gifford: And I was like, that is awesome. That is awesome. and I still talk about it to this day. They got the sequel to Lonesome Dub, which I, Streets of Loretta, which I haven't read yet. And I was like, wow. So that was, that was - That is a take your breath away moment, isn't it? Yeah, because I had just finished it. You're so bespoke. Totally. And I was like, and they knew that I love to read and then they got me Butter, which is an amazing book. So I was like, this is so cool. So going back to AI, it's, some of it is pretty nuanced and it can't feel like formulaic. How about with TNL, a lot of the destinations that you're covering are glamorous, luxurious.

42:03They're going to be somewhere that's like a splash out destination. What is one travel experience that you think is really worth saving up for? You don't have to caveat it. It is just worth it.

42:14Jacqui Gifford: A safari for sure. There's no question. Anybody who does a safari in Africa feels like this greater connection to the planet, whether that's from understanding that we're all descended from people there and that's the way that we evolved and moved and it's sort of this greater purpose, but also seeing animals that you dreamed of or thought only existed in your imagination or on the screen, and then you see them in person and also see them doing real animal things. I think that it's like, you're nobody when you're there. You could be the richest person in the world and you're in a safari vehicle and there's an animal that's active in front of you.

43:06Jacqui Gifford: It really forces you to live in the moment and really think of your, again, your greater connection to the universe. So I would say that. Because it's not about you then. No. It's about looking outwards to something else. And I guess, is that part of this, a broader trend that you're seeing, like you mentioned with Iceland, about people wanting to strip away the technology and just get back to basics, get back to the roots, so to speak? I think so. Our attention spans are shortening. That's true. Our tastes are shifting towards quicker hits of things, whether that's a video, whatever you want to call it, like that sort of dopamine hit of something is, it's rewiring how we feel.

43:57And what I think being in nature, certainly in places of sort of like that feel larger than you, make you have a greater perspective

44:12Jacqui Gifford: of time and both the history of the universe, humanity. I would argue the other place that has made me feel that is also Egypt. And that is a place of I've been many times. And Egypt is so fascinating on so many levels. But the thing that when every time I talk to someone who's been, you have to go, I think, and really be guided there. That's also one place where you really need someone to explain things to you on a greater level. you know when you sort of go like how on earth did these things get built and exist and it's so it's so it questions it makes you question just the physical nature of these structures I think that people are always going to respond to that I was just talking with someone who went to to Easter Island and I want to go I wanted to go there too and you want to see them away and go how on earth did these things get quarried and built?

45:18Jacqui Gifford: And I don't know, maybe there were aliens in the ground. I have no idea. But no, I mean, I know there wasn't, but at the same time, there are still some of life's mysteries. I think that's the greater point. I think that people are going to seek out destinations that feel like there's a little bit of an unsolved mystery there. yeah yeah Machu Picchu maybe totally one totally yeah so I always like to wrap up Jackie with the destination that is at the top of your travel bucket list you've been so busy traveling but where is left for you to discover where do you want to head to you next I am going to Australia next year which is has been on my list for quite some time you know for people from the US it's sort of like the equivalent of when people you know they go to Australia they don't know where to begin, right?

46:10Jacqui Gifford: It's like coming to the United States. It's like, where do I start? New York, Las Vegas, California, the South, Miami. So I'm going to Australia and this is my first visit, but I don't want it to be my last because we will only be doing a fraction of the country. The other place that is top of my list is Peru. You just mentioned it. The other, last but not least, I would say I am still really desperate to explore more of Central Asia and do this Uzbekistan. I am fascinated by that. It keeps coming up on the podcast. Yeah, I'm really fascinated by that part of the world and I've never been. So hopefully I'll get a chance to go.

46:49Oh, I hope so. Yeah, it's really interesting how much Uzbekistan keeps coming up and it feels as though with more direct flights that it's kind of on a precipice of becoming a very busy destination. So it's almost like now it's the time to get there. Totally. I hope you get there soon. Thank you so much, Jackie, for coming back on the podcast. It was such a pleasure to see you.

47:15Oh, a huge thank you to editor in chief of travel and leisure magazine, Jackie Gifford for joining me again on the travel diaries. I always find it so interesting hearing her perspective on where the travel industry is heading. And what I in particular really loved was when she talked about there being no right or wrong way to travel because sometimes the most and meaningful experiences are the simplest ones and we should never judge what is a meaningful travel experience for somebody else I think so I thought that was really cool that she pointed that out you can find all the hotels and destinations that we discussed in today's episode in the show notes and on my website thetraveldiariespodcast.com don't forget to pick up a copy of travel and leisure one of my favorite magazines ever I read it digitally if you enjoyed today's episode don't forget to hit follow or subscribe on your podcast app and leave a rating or review if you enjoyed it it means so much it really helps other people to discover the podcast i will be back on tuesday with another episode until then wishing you all safe travels

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