Cillian Murphy on his new Netflix film ‘Steve’

17:08Cillian Murphy:Yeah, it gets into your marrow, doesn't it? The bass drum.

17:11Elvis Mitchell:The thing, it gets into your nerve endings because you're still shaking. You feel like the adrenaline rush of it. And that's partially what's going on too. There's a lot of adrenaline in this because Steve has to navigate so many worlds and still trying to find ways to sort of connect with Shy. And it's interesting, too, because I was going to ask you about this. That camera crew is itself kind of like a noisy teenager who's always sort of ducking in places that they don't belong.

17:39Cillian Murphy:Yeah, well, we wanted to make that the case. There's a lot of shots where it doesn't cut, you know, so there's a lot of continuous shots in the film, which subliminally I think that's very interesting for the audience because we're allowing them to look wherever they want to look and we're not telling them through the edit where they should or shouldn't look. And, you know, for that example, that scene where Steve is sort of confronted by Jenny silently after the classroom, then he walks down to the basement and he finds the bottle of whiskey and he confronts himself, his own reflection in the mirror.

18:15Cillian Murphy:Like, that's all one continuous take. That's Tim's genius. you know you just cannot look away there's nowhere else to go you're with the character and you're just being forced to kind of be with him during his pain really.

18:32Elvis Mitchell:There are a number of those and I mean I was thinking that scene when he has one of the boys who he winds up by saying you know Tupac's not the best rapper what? And that's a long static take of that and you're kind of wondering because it's early enough that we don't know where it's going to go if Steve actually knows what he's talking about. And then that's the point we kind of realized. He actually knows how to speak to each of these boys on their own terms. But we also see when he walked out of that, again, it's like he's left a club with his drum and bass going. His hands are kind of going.

19:06Elvis Mitchell:And I wanted to ask you, his hands are kind of constantly going when he walks away from somebody.

19:12Cillian Murphy:Yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, all that nervous energy that certain people have because it's coming from their head and it's just transmitting itself to their body. So, like, he never really stops moving and he's, like, you know, eating the Nicorette or drinking the coffee or biting his nails or bouncing the tennis ball. It's anything to distract from what's going on in his head and also to give him some sort of relief. You know, you have to keep fighting away the exhaustion. It even makes me tired thinking about talking about this.

19:49Elvis Mitchell:It's the treatment. My guess who I'm wearing out by asking questions is Killian Murphy. He's starring in the film Steve, which is on Netflix. You can also see the show at kcrw.com slash the treatment. But again, I just found that camera crew, again, as a character, it's just sort of like trouble. It makes as much trouble as those boys, except that there's no relationship to be had with it. At least those kids can be communicated with because there's a relationship. And that camera crew kind of becomes a sort of metaphor for the way people regard the kinds of people, young men and women, who ascend out to those kinds of schools.

20:25Cillian Murphy:Yeah, I mean, they're sort of, I suppose, the view of the establishment really, aren't they? Yeah. And the people that would view places like this as experimental and a waste of money. So they look at the boys as, you know, in numbers and figures and dollars and cents and they are viewed as statistics and problems rather than human beings. And that's what Steve and his staff are trying to fight against the whole time. They're the same as us. They're just as infinitely interesting and complex as we are. But you're sort of ideologically abandoning them, you know.

21:05Elvis Mitchell:But it's a really physical performance though, Kaleen. I mean, we sort of see at, again, there's a sort of a meeting he has with sort of board members of the school. Yeah. And we can sort of see how his shoulders go up. Once they go up, they don't come down for the rest of that scene. Yeah. And just to see the way your neck works. And again, I feel like you must have required the services of a chiropractor after all this sort of done.

21:30Cillian Murphy:So that scene, it's one of my favorite scenes. And for that, we had never met those actors that played. And we designed it so that we didn't see them in the make-up bus. We didn't see them around the ranch. So the first time they'd come into that room was the first time any of us had ever. So the adrenaline you feel in that take and that sort of outrage is all real and not manufactured. And that take is in there. so it was good that was the benefit of shooting the film sequentially that we could do that you know

22:06Elvis Mitchell:because that's really an astonishing scene not that there aren't many because there there's a surfeit of astonishing scenes in the film but that one really caught me just because also the way the camera is almost catching you too late

22:19Cillian Murphy:yeah

22:19Elvis Mitchell:during some of the swish pans yeah

22:22Cillian Murphy:Tim is a massive fan of Lars von Trier and he like apparently Lars von Trier would always like he wouldn't tell the operator what was going to happen what they with the blocking so so he's all the operator is always whipping a little bit just a little bit later it's just it feels very very real and free in the scene and responsive and that's what we

22:45Elvis Mitchell:wanted to get in that scene so when there's the moments of calm in the movie like that incredible um sort of soliloquy that tracy allman has that really sort of is about what that place is and how people relate to it and her tagline to the end of this sort of again venting is really just

23:06Cillian Murphy:heart-rending yeah she's magnificent in the film i think and i really love that scene where she confronts um steve as well about saying you know it's not your fault it's not your fault and he says it is my fault and a lot of that like 95 of the film is scripted but that particular sequence Tracy improvised together and that's where it got to that kind of emotional pitch and I don't think you get any other actor in the world that could do that so beautifully yeah she's amazing

23:36Elvis Mitchell:because in that scene she is for him what he is for all those boys and her trying to do that and that one scene which is I got you but he doesn't want anybody to have him I mean that's gosh there's so much to talk about in this movie just because there's so much of it that doesn't get completed just because he's trying to win this fight on his own, even though he wants to be support for everybody else. But there's so much pride in that performance. And we see it rendered physically a lot. And I wanted to ask you about that because it's, if we talk about things you've done before, the way you sort of deal with your character's pride is, and I think we talked about this a little bit the last time, has fascinated me too.

24:20Elvis Mitchell:And it really comes into play here.

24:22Cillian Murphy:well that's a kind of a male condition isn't it that inability to ask for help or that inability to to say that you can't manage it on your own and I think Steve is a real example of that you know if he just allowed somebody to help him or if he was able to help himself he'd be a much better teacher and a much better leader like in many ways I think he's doing the best he can and I think they all adore him he probably shouldn't be in charge of all these kids because he's so damaged, you know. And he just will not let people in. And I imagine he doesn't tell his wife what's going on in the school because he wants to be able to protect them from what's going on after them.

25:08Cillian Murphy:And then he doesn't tell, I'm sure, Amanda what's going on at home. and then he doesn't tell the boys, you know, about all the other stuff that he's trying to do. So he's compartmentalizing everything and rationalizing it and saying, everything is fine. I've got everything under control. And that's, I think that happens a lot with men.

25:31Elvis Mitchell:We can go through all, so many of these characters that you play and there are these manifestations of the way they display their pride. Steve's is his pride and his communication skills. And he sort of thinks that he can, by communicating, he can sort of like surmount any barrier. And we can contrast that with Oppenheimer, who basically thought through cognition, you can think through any problem. With Peaky Blinders, at some point, there's nothing that a knife can't solve. And these guys that you played so often are about how that pride manifests. and we can sort of see hour by hour because the movie kind of tracks Steve in that way that by the end he's sort of like gone through every thing he can do except ask for help.

26:24Elvis Mitchell:And that's, again, that's a really potent way to sort of like wind this down.

26:29Cillian Murphy:Yeah, I think so. But I do think in those characters that you mentioned, I do feel there is a resolution. Like I do feel that there is a, that all those characters do at a certain point realize that that is not the right path eventually. You know, whether they actually admit it or not, I think the audience can tell. I think the audience can see that it's, that's not the path, that's not the road to success ultimately. Certainly, I think you could see that in Oppelheimer and Chris's film. And I think if you watch Peaky Blinders, to its conclusion, I think you can very much see that Tommy feels like that.

27:11And I feel like the monologue at the end of Steve, I think even though he's speaking about the kids,

27:19Cillian Murphy:I also think he's speaking about himself when he says, you know, and maybe, you know, maybe it's just enough. You know, maybe it's enough.

27:27Elvis Mitchell:It's always good to talk to you. Thanks so much. Hopefully the next time I can see you in person, my guess is Killian Murphy's new film. S-Star is Steve from Netflix. Again, thank you so much for doing this. Always great talking to you.

27:38Cillian Murphy:Always a real pleasure. Thanks, Elvis.

27:40Arianne Philips:Outside, out of mind, out of time, out of love. Out of breath, out of body, out of friends. I can tell that you don't get out as much.

27:50Elvis Mitchell:Killian Murphy has starred in series such as Peaky Blinders and films such as Oppenheimer, for which he won the Best Actor Oscar. His newest starring role is in the Netflix film Steve. Stories of success, new and old, at the archive. KCRW.com slash the treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. More to come.

28:12Arianne Philips:Let the demons out your closet. They out to get you cause you're putting out a message. Like I say, the response won't affect you. Out of respect you say you're outside. Out of mind, out of time, out of love.

28:30Hold on

28:33Arianne Philips:Don't wait to see me

28:42You're back

28:56Arianne Philips:Academy Awards, including Best Picture and Cinematography. RogerEbert.com raves, it's a film that reached into my heart and soul. You don't just watch it, you breathe it in. Featuring Academy Award-nominated and Critics' Choice Award-winning cinematography from Adolfo Veloso. Awards Watch hails it the most beautifully shot film of the year, and New York Magazine proclaims, Train Dreams is the best picture of the year.

29:22Elvis Mitchell:It's The Treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. You may know Tim Deegan from his column on CityWatch LA. It's a throwback to the kind of journalism with a crusading point of view. I think of Tim as being a consummate gatherer of information, and his previous life as a film executive proved that. He used his consummate information-gathering skills to cement a place in history for a movie that is, as of right now, celebrating its 50th anniversary and is the longest running studio film still in general release. It is not, y 'all. It's the film we're talking about. It's a Rocky Horror Picture Show. Tim's book is Saving Rocky Horror from Orphan to Icon.

30:04Elvis Mitchell:And Tim, even if you hadn't quoted me in the book, I would still have you in the show. Thanks so much for doing this.

30:09Tim Deegan:It was a great quote. Thank you for giving it to me.

30:11Elvis Mitchell:One of the things I find so fascinating about the book is that it's really about a time that should have been in the 70s. Music and film should have been knit together in a way that it did not. And the success of Rocky Horror really goes to prove that. It's the bringing together of a kind of a maverick. In fact, I think the book is about a bunch of three mavericks. Lou Adler, who brought Rocky Horror to the screen, you and Alan Ladd Jr., or Laddy. It really is about these three mavericks going their own way and making a place for this movie and studio system after being told no so many way.

30:46Tim Deegan:No, over and over and over. It was the little engine that could, but it said, no, no, no. And you're right about the music part. And Adler is the key to that. He was already a very successful music producer. You must know his history, or listeners will know his history. But Lou was a guy who had no guardrails and no boundaries. And for me, that was perfect because he carried no movie-making baggage, movie-marketing baggage with him. It was wide open what to be able to do. And he was able to match up his soundtrack release with our movie release and have synchronicity and make a great, great marriage.

31:21Elvis Mitchell:I think what's fascinating about this is I think it's a real sign of your professionalism and how much you saw the potential in movies. Because as you mentioned in the book, you went to the first screening of Rocky Horror Picture Show and you did not like it. And you made that known to people, didn't you?

31:36Tim Deegan:Exactly right. And when Adler said to me, you're my audience, what do you think? And I said, I don't like it. The reason I didn't like it was I was more into, I was 23 years old, 24. I was more into the French New Wave and Antonioni, blah, blah, blah, and all the arty stuff. This was just beyond my scope. And he said, when I said, I don't like your movie, he said, but can you be objective about selling it? And I said, absolutely. I'm a professional. And I stepped into a vacuum. Nobody else wanted anything to do. Not with Lou particularly because they had no opinion about him. But you've got to remember, it was the early 1970s.

32:07Tim Deegan:and the whole avant-garde story that is so commonplace today was shattering at the time. So I literally stepped into a vacuum and he grabbed me and said, come with me.

32:17Elvis Mitchell:Well, as you mentioned, too, it's a period where studios just operated in one way. There were no specialty divisions that were really influenced by movies, by the way, like Rocky Horror Picture Show. And this was a movie that has, as you say, so many different parents. You know, it was Brit Eklund seeing the show in London. the actor Britt Eckling and then telling Lou about it and getting him to fall in love with it. But the book is, to me, amazing because it's about the community that was created about the film. Like the idea of sort of creating unofficial fan club at the time the movie got its release.

32:52Elvis Mitchell:That was unusual for a studio to do, wasn't it?

32:54Tim Deegan:It was very unusual. Sal Piro called me one day, identified himself as a teacher in a religious school or teaching religion somewhere in a stand-up comic. Those were his two vocations. And he said, do you have a fan club? And I said, no. He said, I'd like to start one. And I called Lou and I talked to my colleagues. And we all agreed a fan club. None of us had ever dealt with a fan club. Maybe Lou had some knowledge of fan clubs. Fox certainly had no fan club operation. And the answer to Sal was, you're going to get zero support from the studio. No money, no recognition, no nothing. Good luck, goodbye.

33:27Tim Deegan:And Sal ran with it. And it took Sal. I remember Sal very proudly saying to me on the 10th anniversary, Lou Adler is finally going to make an announcement about the fan club and recognize us officially as the fan club. Sal is deceased recently, but Sal deserves a huge amount of credit for taking the baton. Once I opened the Midnight Market, he took it from there.

33:46Elvis Mitchell:As you're constantly giving people, and again, I think of you as being, just knowing you from our time together at the L.A. County Museum, you really have a gift for gathering information and using that information in ways that can benefit lots of people. And you were constantly bringing this information to the studio that if we do this, if we follow this path, we can create a new way and a new revenue stream. And you still kept getting pushback.

34:10Tim Deegan:Exactly right. I was passionate about it because I was a devotee of the New Art Theater and the midnight shows at the New Art Theater. Again, contextually, this was in the early 1970s. There were no clubs. There were a few clubs here and there, but not the music scene like we have today with the clubs on every corner. And the lobby of the Newark Theater was basically a clubhouse. I probably only saw smatterings of pink flamingos, which was on the screen. But they hung around in the lobby because my friends, week after week, that's where they were. And we would hang out there. And that was the place to go at midnight on Friday night, Saturday night.

34:44Tim Deegan:I had that experience in me. It made me understand that the best place for this movie was a midnight show in the midnight market. and the difficulty in selling that to the studio executives was epic, as the book points out.

34:56Elvis Mitchell:Well, it's interesting, too, because it's part of this era in film where it took a really passionate individual after a movie sort of died in conventional release. That happened almost 10 years earlier with Bonnie and Clyde, where it died in conventional release, and Warren Beatty basically prevails upon everybody to say, no, you don't know what you're doing with this. because all the midnight movies that you're talking about, these films like Pink Flamingos or El Topo, were not major studio films. But they were all generating money. As you say in the book, when there's a success, people hear about it.

35:27Elvis Mitchell:So these movies were having some success, and the studios still weren't interested in releasing midnight movies. Why do you think that was? You go into it in the book, but why do you think it was?

35:36Tim Deegan:I can only speak for the climate that I was in and my colleagues, but I've got to imagine that it was replicated by the same generation at every studio. So the bosses who were the decision makers where I was had their heyday in the 1950s and early 1960s. They were still, Hollywood quote, was still releasing movies the way they did in the 1940s and 1950s. There was no Madison Avenue saturation buys, which is why I put in that piece about Star Wars. There was no creative way to do publicity and promotion. It was the same old, same old, same old. And they were just inbred. They had no interest in trying anything new.

36:10Tim Deegan:and they were very happy to just continue to do what had always worked for them before. And it took a breakout like Rocky Horror to kind of open people's eyes. Now, you're right, there was no specialty division. Every studio now does have a specialty division. And the movie either goes out to general release saturation, it goes to an art house or it goes in between. It's segmented. Movie marketing today is segmented. Back then, it was just one size fits all.

36:33Elvis Mitchell:It's the truth. We're talking to a writer and journalist, Tim Degen, about his book, Saving Rocky Horror From Orphan to Icon. You can hear the show at kcow.com slash the treatment. What I'm curious about, Tim, is that this is a process for you of continual discovery. And there's an excitement in the book, and I never really talked to you at length about this. So I was fascinated to read the book. I can feel your excitement of finding out these new things almost on a monthly basis. And that's kind of what kept you going, wasn't it?

37:04Tim Deegan:It sure was. And somebody who, an actor, I'm not going to quote by name, but he read the book recently and he said, this is a thriller. And I never looked at it. I never looked at it that way. But I may go back to him and say, may I quote you by name? Because it's a great quote. And it made me look at the book. Yes, it is a thriller. You never knew until the last moment what was going to happen.

37:23Elvis Mitchell:But you're constantly uncovering things. And some of these things are in plain sight. But a lot of it, too, is your relationships. The fact that you could go to Lou Adler because the studio wasn't interested in talking to him. and because he did have this sort of beachhead and youth culture. And as you mentioned, his office, he had an office with Robert Altman, who was supposed to be the director of the Cheech and Chong film, Up in Smoke, and ended up not doing it, and Lou did. But for me, kind of the sadness of the book is that Lou Adler never really had the sort of place in film history that he should have.

37:57Tim Deegan:Elvis, I agree with you 100%. And as I say in the book, the regrettable thing for me was that Lou Adler and Laddie never connected. And they were both at the studio at the same time.

38:08Elvis Mitchell:And watching the film as many times as you did with those audiences, taking it to New York against company wishes, then taking it to Texas, each success still sort of gave you another obstacle to get past, which is crazy to me.

38:25Tim Deegan:I agree. You know, it wasn't until Laddie stepped in and said, go ahead and try it, that the message sunk into the studio executives that listened to Deegan. He knows what he's talking about. And I've mentioned to you, because he's talked earlier about the passion for a project. George Lucas was quoted, and I think it's in the book. I'm pretty sure it's in the book. George Lucas was quoted as saying he didn't think that Laddie believed in Star Wars, that he really didn't understand what it was all about. All George could say was it's cowboys and Indians in outer space. And nobody knew about it.

38:56Tim Deegan:His jaws had some special effects, but nobody really knew what special effects impact would be out of Star Wars. But George said, Laddie didn't necessarily understand the movie, but he understood me and my passion for the movie. And I think that's how Laddie operated. He certainly operated that way with me. It took a 20-second meeting with him to get him to say, go ahead and try it. And I think I just conveyed my enthusiasm so strongly to him that he just said, hey, go ahead and try it. If you believe in this so much, try it.

39:22Elvis Mitchell:But more or less, the success of Rocky Horror Picture Show and Star Wars are almost concurrent. At one point, you talked about being at a very early screening of Star Wars. It almost felt to me like that screening of Rocky Horror Picture Show. You guys are watching the movie with no special effects in George Lucas's living room, and nobody knows what to make of it.

39:45Tim Deegan:Exactly right. And when we all saw the movie at MGM Cary Grant Theatre, the audience exploded and erupted in cheers and screaming and yelling and hollering. It was instant.

39:56Elvis Mitchell:And watching Wakiho again as many times as you have with different audiences around the country, did you ever change your mind about it? Did you run over to the quality of the movie or do you still sort of take an objective distance from it?

40:11Tim Deegan:I think I'm still detached from it, have a sense of detachment from it. I'm very happy about what happened. I'm very, very happy for South Pier. I'm very, very happy for the fans that have had a chance to have 50 years of experience like this. You know, it's hard to be happy with the studio, the producers, because they made so much money on it. But the people who made this movie successful, I'm really happy for them because it is a community. And I know of many fans, and they are truly a real tight-knit community.

40:38Elvis Mitchell:Again, it's about your affinity for gathering information. About how much money has Rocky Horror made in the past 50 years?

40:46Tim Deegan:Last, I can quote from the horse's mouth, Lou Adler, respectfully. He was on CBS Sunday morning two weeks ago with an interview with Tim Curry, and they asked him that question. And he said$166 million.

41:01Elvis Mitchell:On a$1.3 million investment, that's still got to be one of the best horror items.

41:06Tim Deegan:I'm taking it to Harvard Business School for a case study.

41:09Elvis Mitchell:It's the treatment. My guest is Tim Deegan. His terrific book is Saving Rocky Horror, From Orphan to Icon, the History of the Rocky Horror Picture Show's release. You have the experience of seeing this same kind of fumbling almost 10 years earlier with 2001, A Space Odyssey, where the studio kind of mismanaged the release and it found a youth audience. I would have thought between that and the successes of movies such as Easy Rider and the like, But that would have told the studios, even with these old guard guys, that there was a new audience that was eager to see a kind of movie they hadn't seen before.

41:43Tim Deegan:You would think. And I was a teenager in that period. And I grew up in that transition time from Sound of Music to Bonnie and Clyde. And, you know, it was kids were driving it. And the studios, they were desperate to do anything they could to connect with the counterculture. But they were clumsy about it. They just didn't have the skill set to deal with it. And rightfully so. They were aged out.

42:04Elvis Mitchell:I want to ask you this, Tim, as kind of a closing question. How would you describe what the Rocky Howard Picture Show is about?

42:11Tim Deegan:Oh, that's simple. It's about the lyric, Richard O 'Brien, who wrote the lyric, Don't Dream It, Be It. It's the sentiment of you can do anything you want, stop dreaming about it and do it. And that applies globally. And that's why I think there's a future for Rocky Howard past 50 years. The world is full of people who should be doing it, not dreaming it, and being told that that action is okay to do in whatever walk of life and whatever you want to do. Stop dreaming, just get out there and do it. Be it.

42:40Elvis Mitchell:We should also say, too, in sort of cultural phenomenology terms, it really opened up the world of cosplay. It was one of the first movies that people would go dressed in the costumes of the people in the movie who felt a kind of freedom, especially Frank N. Ferders, played so beautifully by tim curry who was it's one of the great movie star turns of all time i think i agree and that charisma and dedication that he brought to that really sparked people and again i and you get at this in the book created the world of cosplay that we live in today yep yep and it's

43:18Tim Deegan:and you know comic con is huge and comic con is just the national level on the local level it's everywhere. I mean, I guess I wonder too, if you think that that kind of thing could ever be

43:29Elvis Mitchell:repeated. I mean, the world's different now and people are aware of merchandising opportunities and salesmanship. But what this comes down to, Tim, is the way we start the conversation. People responding to your passion, you're responding to the passion of the people who made the movie or the fandom that existed around the movie that wasn't being acknowledged. Do you think this kind of thing could ever happen in the film world again?

43:52Tim Deegan:I doubt it very seriously. It was and continues to be totally organic. And there have been many attempts by Pianic, it's all about this in the book, about MGM wanting me to create a cult for the Pink Floyd, the wall movie. They just don't get it. These people who want to do stuff like that. It's an organic movement that is never going to end. And it's probably never going to be able to be replicated, certainly not for 15 years. but the idea of something springing out of nowhere that's been rejected, rejected, rejected, rejected. Disastrous sneak preview in Santa Barbara. Disastrous meeting with the executives.

44:29Tim Deegan:Disastrous performance of the play that we all went to at the Roxy. Nobody, we walked out in the driveway and said, we don't want this. It was one no after no after no. And I think that crescendo of no's is what helped drive the success in the movie. The more they said no to me, the more dug in I got.

44:48Elvis Mitchell:Well, my guest is Tim Deegan, crusading journalist and a guy who was exactly in the right place at the right time, but still knew how to capitalize on it, being a 20th century fox in the early 70s. His book on a cultural phenomenon and a business phenomenon. The book is Saving Rocky Horror from Orphan to Icon. Tim Deegan. Tim, I can't thank you enough for doing the show. Thanks so much.

45:12Tim Deegan:Elvis, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

45:14Arianne Philips:The river was deep, but I swam it. The future is ours, so let's plan it So please don't tell me to can it I've one thing to say, and that's damn it Janet, I love you

45:30Elvis Mitchell:Saving Rocky Horror, From Orphan to Icon Journalist and author Tim Deegan's new book is out just in time to celebrate the film's 50th anniversary Rocky Horror's impact was so profound that it's also The Treat, from Oscar-nominated costume designer, Arianne Phillips. Long-lived influences abound at the archive. KCRW.com slash The Treat.

46:13Arianne Philips:Storytelling, Disney's Zootopia 2 for your consideration for Best Animated Feature. Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of Fresh Air. Hey, take a break from the 24-hour news cycle with us and listen to long-form interviews with your favorite authors, actors, filmmakers, comedians, and musicians, the people making the art that nourishes us and speaks to our times. So listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY.

46:40Elvis Mitchell:Oscar-nominated costume designer Ariane Phillips has shown the influences of film history in her work, such as the Billy Jack-inspired ensemble Brad Pitt wore in Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. It's the treat. I'm Elvis Mitchell. Her reflections on a 70s film that married glam and glamour and sent her on her way.

47:03Arianne Philips:I would like, if I may, to take you on a strange journey. I'm Ariane Phillips, and this is The Treat.

47:26Arianne Philips:Rocky Horror Picture Show was the ultimate mind-boggler for a 14-year-old adolescent girl who was just trying to figure out who I was. It was titillating. It was provocative. It was about self-expression. I'm not much of a man by the light of day, but by night I'm one hell of a lover. I'm just a sweet transvestite. From transsexual Transylvania

48:09Arianne Philips:The characters in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, the use of music to tell the story, the musical aspect, the provocative sexual liberation theme in the film was very relevant for the time, and extremely provocative, especially for an adolescent girl at 14. I was trying to figure out who I was. The gender conversations and these gorgeous costumes where you really knew who each character was.

48:43Tim Deegan:Janet! Dr. Scott! Janet! Rooker!

48:48Arianne Philips:Janet! Dr. Scott! Janet! Rooker! The scene with Tim Curry, who plays Frankenfurter in the pool when he sings, Don't Dream It, Be It, gave me goosebumps, inspired me. Don't dream it, be it, don't dream it. It was a film that would actually be seminal in terms of my desire to work in film. and I would say many years later in 2000 I got an opportunity to have my own Rocky Horror which was Hedwig and the Angry Inch similar themes about being true to yourself be who you are don't dream it be it and um against all odds with a lot of comedy and music

49:44Cillian Murphy:It's astounding. Time is fleeting.

49:50Arianne Philips:Madness takes its toll. But listen closely. Not for very much longer. Filled me with awe and questions that I never even considered or understood. And it was sexy and exciting and made me feel so many things. And these characters have been forever impressed upon me and indelible in the music. It just, it blew my mind. Let's do the time warp again Let's do the time warp again It's just a jump to the left

50:36Elvis Mitchell:The enduring influence of the Rocky Horror Picture Show on Oscar-nominated costume designer Ariane Phillips Oscar-nominated costume designer Ellen Mirajnik on a bigger-than-life glamorous movie and star at the archive kcrw.com slash the treat. The Treat is intimate reflections on inspirations that can be found in the work of creators of all types. Our interview subjects are kind enough to share their thoughts on inspiration and the hard work it takes to realize those inspirations. They come here because being heard on KCRW matters to them. Show how much KCRW matters to you With your support and a pledge During this crucial fall pledge drive The show is produced and edited by Rebecca Mooney And mixed by Katie Gilchrist Help this week from Mike Stark To better days everyone I'm Elvis Mitchell It's The Treatment

51:41Arianne Philips:Let's do the time hold again Let's do the time of the day

51:51Cillian Murphy:While I was walking down the street Just to have a thing When a snake of a guy Gave me an evil wing He shook me up He took me by surprise

52:00Arianne Philips:KCRW sponsors include Paramount Plus Presenting Landman Nominated for two actor awards The drama series is anchored by layered Deeply human performances In a story of money, power, and politics For your consideration Landman is now streaming on Paramount+. I just got my new phone, and the KCRW app is the best way to get the music and shows you love from KCRW. And it's been totally redone, to be cleaner, faster, and more reliable. And there's two new music streams, Dance24 and Vintage24, and they're only in the app. Plus, real-time now playing, so you never miss a track ID. Look up KCRW in the App Store, and be sure to make a free account to use all the new features.