Mahershala Ali on his most physical role yet

0:00From KCRW Santa Monica and KCRW.com, it's The Treatment.

0:12Welcome to The Treatment. Our old friend Mahershala Ali hasn't been here for so long. He's won a second Oscar since the last time he was here. He is a splendid actor who is making a real meal of it in his newest role in the film, Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. First of all, it's a pleasure to have you back. It's great to get to speak with you, Elvis. Thank you for having me. And I can't help but think about the number of times you played father-type figures. I mean, when I met you in Kix and also in Moonlight. And now in this, these father figures who are sort of torn between trying to do what is right and what is demanded of them.

0:50Yeah. It seems to be the best parts, you know, the ones that seem to be the most well-written. and with the breadth that I'm aiming for. And so Bassam sent something my way that felt, it just felt like a no-brainer and somewhat, it felt like I had to do it. I just felt called to it. But yeah, back at it in that space. And by Bassam you mean Bassam Tariku wrote and directed the film. And I think what's interesting about it too, Mahershala, is that the first act of violence we see is the act of another elder towards you. It's a slap you get from a character played by Giancarlo Esposito that really kind of sets things into motion about who this character is and how he's not living up to his own potential.

1:38Yes, he kind of gets smacked in place by his own mentor, who was played so beautifully by Giancarlo Esposito. That's his North Star, I think, in his life, his shake, his teacher and mentor. And so I think the last thing he wants to do is be a disappointment to that character in particular. But yes, you see the father getting fathered. It's interesting too, because it really is a movie about the dangers of the modern world, isn't it? It definitely has that. I think, especially through the eyes, in some ways, of a parent, when you can see him dealing with some of, as far as like one just trying to fend for his children and protect them but also there's an element with his daughter Fatiha and being concerned about some of the things that he sees her potentially getting into and wanting to protect her from that and having his own reaction to that there's also just the element of of those the elements that are hunting him and his family and trying to protect them from that.

2:53And then there's also the vulnerability that he is struck by and trying not to be overwhelmed by that is a result of the loss of his wife. And so he's lost his partner who would help him navigate all of this, who has helped him navigate all of this in regards to, like, raising his children. Yeah, we should say it's the story of kind of an enforcer for a mob who is newly widowered. He's just lost his wife and he's raising an infant daughter and he has a daughter who's just coming into being a teen and a son who's a bit younger than she. It's so interesting, too, because it's also about, in this really impactful way, what the lack of a female figure in her family does.

3:43And we can tell just by when we meet him that he had abdicated a lot of that role of nurturing the family to his wife. And with her being there, the family is adrift. Yes. And then so he finds himself immediately trying to fill her shoes. And I think he's so resentful and afraid to fill that void. And I don't think he feels like he's capable of it. And so therefore, I think the top of the film, he finds himself essentially mad at God for putting him in this position. So he's sort of in this woe is me state. I think, you know, we have to give that character grace because he's experiencing something really traumatic.

4:37But the reality is for him that he's hurt and terrified by the loss of his wife, which he clearly loves. But the task of raising an infant and two children who are moving into, you know, the teen years and one getting closer to being an adult, but still with a lot of life left to live and a lot of responsibility in terms of just raising and guiding them and not feeling equipped to do all this on his own. I think what's really interesting about the character is that he doesn't seem to know how to talk to women. He really doesn't know how to communicate with them. And we can sort of see the relationship he had with his late wife was when she probably filled in a lot of the holes and did a lot of talking and communicating for him.

5:32Left on his own devices from talking to his daughter, to some of the other women he runs into. And a lot of times he doesn't even hold his head up when he's speaking to women. That's a wonderful observation. I didn't even think of it like that. But I'll roll with you on that. I think that, yeah, he struggles to, I think, express himself. And I think that's why maybe he feels most comfortable when there is violence, you know, when he can use his hands and when there's a task, when there's, in his mind, justice to sort of execute. Because perhaps Latif isn't the best of communicators. I think it's interesting, too, because you said something that I thought was really interesting.

6:16The moments when violence is about to happen when he's speaking to women, he's really direct and actually communicates. But there's one case where he's dealing with trying to get breast milk for his infant daughter and something is broken out. I don't want to give too much away, but it's one of the most amazing things. Just having a hit man walking to a former strip club to get breast milk from a former porn actress in a place that's now a church. I mean, just that context alone is an extraordinary thing. But in these situations, and there's another situation with his daughter, when he's just dealt with battle, he's about to go into battle, words come to him in a much clearer way than they do otherwise.

6:56I think the stakes are so high that I think he's, when he's forced to communicate, I believe he can on some level. And I think that the moment with his daughter, I think he's aware of the stakes. And so he manages to say what he can say. And then in the scene that you did sort of allude to with Tiffany Booth in the former strip club, part of that is his deep discomfort around, because of his faith and the things that surround sort of being somewhat conservative and thoughtful and mindful around women as a Muslim. I think it makes him even that much more uncomfortable considering that he needs to have his baby go and feed from this woman's breast while he's in the same room as her and he doesn't even quite know her.

7:53So I think all those things lend to him being even more like tongue tied. So, yes, I'm in agreement with you there. It's the treatment. The person who's giving me the benefit of the doubt is our old friend Mahershala Ali, who's starring in the new film Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. I think what's fascinating about this character for me, too, is that we're aware of his size, and he's in so many environments in which things feel claustrophobic to him. Yeah. Well, and also, I think the world is closing in around him. Yes. It just makes me think of, you know, you had a pebble in your hand, and you hold it up close to your face, all you see is the pebble and the world around you disappears.

8:34And I think he's sort of living in that space right now. I think the death of his wife and the task of needing to feed this child who was allergic to formula and urgently searching for breast milk, I think all he can see is that. And so therefore, I think the walls are closing in around him. And I think he's struggling for perspective. He's struggling for how to recalibrate and rebalance his life and what the next move is in order to be at peace and create an environment of peace. And so we catch him in the throes of all of that. And I think claustrophobic is the right word. There's so much about of this, the people who want to sort of live by their faith.

9:20The character played by John Cho is somebody who, in almost Old Testament ways, the idea of faith and violence, these two seemingly contradictory things, are constantly ramming into each other in the story. Agreed. And it's interesting because those characters are more alike than they are different. I think their religious point of view might be slightly different, but I think the way in which they view justice is very similar. I think there is a permissible violence within that that we actually see play out in the film that they sort of believe in and that they are somewhat okay with. Because the way the violence is meted out in the film, it's really almost like something from the Old Testament.

10:12It comes as these waves of force, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And it eventually comes to a real head, you know, not to give anything away, but by the end of the film, you see those two characters meet. And then I think then it becomes about mercy in some way, shape or form, which is also, which is more in the New Testament than it is in the Old Testament. But I think that there is a real element of mercy that is a character in the story as well. Well, take a break and be back with more of our guest Academy Award winner, Marshall Ali. His new film is Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. It's the treatment.

10:51There's more to come.

11:02On the eve of your 30s, you will look for a man you've never known. We think that you might be our biological father. The search will take you across coasts and into the veiled landscapes of love, family, and memory. Just because you're happy doesn't mean you get to erase your whole past. I'm Sarah Quevedo, and this is Reaching Out. Literally, when should I apologize? In the past? Before I said it? An audio memoir from Futudo and KCRW. Out now, wherever you listen. Welcome back. It's The Treatment. I'm talking to the star of the new film, Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, two-time Academy Award winner, Mahershala Ali.

11:43Clearly, Latifah is a man who wants to be the proverbial good son, good father, good brother. And he feels like he's failing in all those things. And every time he's brought up short by his family member, you can see the hurt in his face. No, this is not who I am. You don't see me the way you should be seeing me. And I was really struck by, that's when the world really seems to close in on him. And you can see he's got these ideas in his head about the way he presents himself to the world. And that's why that slap from Giancarlo's character is so violent at the beginning. That's not, you're not who you're saying you are.

12:17No, no, this is who I am. That just, because you saw him play characters who are fiercely articulate. To see you playing this person who was trapped and not able to get the words out, not only get them out, but not able to say them the way he wants to say them is the real heartbreak in the performance to me. Well, thank you. It's his daughter that actually, I think, does see him eventually. She almost gives him permission to be what he needs to be, to be who he is at a certain point. I think she does see him accurately at a certain point. I think so much happens after the titles, after the credits roll.

12:55In my mind. Like, I think there is resolution and there is, I think there is a real breath. I mean, I think we actually do get that breath at the very end. But I think that he is essentially misunderstood throughout. But I believe that there's a point where he actually is seen. And so that there is, I think that there is a resolution and peace by the end of the film. I want to ask you this because I think he's kind of being seen accurately. I think by the end of the movie, he sees who he is. I can roll with you on that. Yes. Agreed. But I guess what it is that maybe his daughter is, I think he finally sees himself through her eyes.

13:42And I think he realizes that he is enough by that point. You know, that as much as he misses his wife, as much as the world would be a very different place if she were present, and around and able to balance this child-rearing act with him that I think by the time he sees himself through his daughter, he realizes that he is enough, that God hasn't given him something that he can't necessarily handle. That's funny because I feel like as long as we're talking Old Testament, what he's looking for is the Old Testament version of grace. Yes, but he has to give it to himself. And I don't think he...

14:25he's not at that place throughout the, and I'm glad he isn't because we wouldn't have a movie, but I think he gets to that point eventually, but he doesn't have that to begin with. See, I wonder if a part of the thing that attracted you to this is he's a character who's very sure, very confident, we should say, very assured, let me put it that way, in his use of violence, but it gives him no pleasure. It gives him no actual confidence in himself. This is kind of the 180 of what we used to see in these characters, these men of action who are defined by the way they deport themselves in violent situations.

15:02And they feel like that gives them something. It gives him no peace. And that, to me, is the crux of what makes this different from other movies, sort of action thrillers. Yes. Yes. And I think for me personally, I've had an opportunity to play characters that feel emotionally intelligent at times or emotionally articulate. And he is not that he's he's I shouldn't say he's not emotionally intelligent, but I just feel like he's he's the most physical character I've ever got to play. And I think I was really curious about. about what that required. And if I could do that, if I could be believable in that space and what there was to discover and playing someone who is not necessarily equipped with some of those common tools to play a father of that ilk.

16:06And I was really satisfied by that exploration. And in the moments even where I felt stuck or confused, that just getting to explore a man like Latif, it just felt additive to my experience. And it's not the easiest thing to honestly even talk about because I'm still processing it. I learned so much from, I'm learning so much from having played him. And part of it is helpful in, if I go back to other projects, like some of it is really helpful in just seeing what other people are getting from them, getting from the characters and the stories and how they're reacting and getting and having an opportunity to talk about it and sort of dig up a little bit more of the experience and just getting to live in that with people.

16:57I do feel like, you know, good film just keeps on giving. So I'm learning about him still. Well, I can see why it attracted you to the character. Because I think you're right, he is emotionally intelligent, but I think he also is stymied by this inability to be the person that he wants to be. I mean, we can see that almost every exchange he has with somebody. I mean, this sort of character could be written as somebody who's basically able to get whatever he wants to get through whatever means, and he fails as often as he succeeds. And where he ends up succeeding so often is through the use of the tactics that he's learned to be a really competent, violent character.

17:41But again, the practice of those skills gives him no peace. And that's the way he used to sing. These characters so often are completed by that kind of expertise and that kind of precision and professionalism. And he's not. And what he wants to be is the opposite of what he's good at. I think the pieces in originally, I think the pieces in the provision that those skills provide. And now it's like, that's not enough anymore. Yes. He can't, that's not enough. And he can't, he can't go about things in that way. And so he's outgrown that. And so the question is, what is next? How does he do this?

18:24How does he face his children? How does he provide for his children now? How does he no longer put himself in harm's way to put food on the table? How does he be present for his children and communicate with them and love them? And how does he do that without fighting? And I don't think he doesn't have a good answer for that at the moment. And I don't think the circumstances allow for him to answer that question in the moment either. I think about so many of the people you played who almost reflexively are able to sort of speak in ways that shock people by how perceptive they are, that he's not even somebody who's like in weight being wary.

19:06His ambition is to be able to communicate. and I'm struck with the scene he has with Mike at the apartment. So many times he wants to be able to say the right thing and he cannot. And there are times when he's doing that, you can sort of see his hands kind of come up as a reflexively, or if this were violence, I can handle it. But no, then we see him lower his hands. I mean, just to watch you do that a few times in the film, Marushala, is really stunning. So much has to go back to Bassam and just this wonderful, at least for me, I was just so attracted to the journey of this character and all that he was tasked with.

19:50And I think we did a wonderful job of just trying to put our heads together to try to live it out truthfully moment to moment. and whether the character, whether Lateef was successful at any given moment in getting what he wanted or failed at getting what he wanted or communicating what he wanted. I just think that we were just trying to be honest and sort of like stay in that place throughout. And as a result, it was one of the more fulfilling experiences that I've had, especially as of late. My guest is the actor Mahershala Ali. He is the star of the film Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother.

20:40Thank you so much for your time. Always good talking to you. Thank you, Elvis. Appreciate it, sir. Take me down to the water's edge

20:55From myself and every ghost in my head Actor Mahershala Ali has won two Oscars for playing men trying to maintain a spiritual footing under the threat of violence. He received the Best Supporting Actor Oscars for his performances in the films Moonlight and Green Book. His newest film to explore this theme is the action melodrama Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. Previous conversations with creators trying to keep head and soul together in a conflicted world, including Rami Youssef, who's worked with Mahershala Ali, can be found at the archive, kcrw.com slash thetreatment. kcrw.com slash thetreat is where you hear our continuing series of talents on the inspirations that have shaped their journeys.

21:49The newest is actor and director Tim Robbins, whose inspiration keeps him grounded. Literally. The show is produced and edited by Rebecca Mooney and mixed by Katie Gilgrist. To better days, everyone, I'm Elvis Mitchell. It's The Treatment.

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