The 'Club Kid' is alright

0:00KCRW sponsors include FX's Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bessette, starring Sarah Pidgeon and Paul Anthony Kelly. Emmy eligible in all limited series categories. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. From KCRW Santa Monica and KCRW.com, it's The Treatment.

0:27Welcome to The Treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. One of the breakouts of this year's Cannes Film Festival was Club Kit, the debut feature film by writer, director, and actor Jordan Firstman. He took a persona that he'd been working out for years in short films and expanded the worldview for that character. It was the first and one of the biggest sales at Cannes,$17.5 million to age 24. Firstman joined me for a conversation during the festival, along with his co-stars Cara Delevingne and Diego Calva. First of all, it feels like it's sort of Kramer vs. Kramer if the director of Party Girl had done it.

1:07Those were like the two references when I was pitching the movie, basically. Really? Yeah, it was like Kramer versus Kramer meets party girl, meets Big Daddy. Because one of the things I was really struck by is when you use costumes to define people, we first meet Pewdie's wearing clothes that are basically kind of painted onto him. Like I told you, by the end, he's wearing these clothes that are grown-up clothes. Yeah. And at one point, your character goes from dressing like a party girl to the next scene, she's wearing a suit trying to be a grown-up. Her business suit, yeah. But your character's always kind of, you're the only adult in the entire film, and he's kind of always dressed like a grown-up, isn't it?

1:40Yeah, I think, I mean, we had a genius, genius costume designer, Emily Costantino, and like just the attention to character and detail. And like we wanted, for Peter at least, and it was really important to me too. Like I'm very specific with what I want people in because it just says so much about the characters. And, like, you know, we had some amazing New York nightlife legend references for Sophie, like Lady F*** and, like, all of these, like, really amazing New York legends that we were kind of, like, looking at their, like, inside their homes to find their decor and what their style is throughout the years.

2:25but yeah and then with with peter like we wanted him to um yeah have this boyish quality you know he's always in like kind of baggy baggy shorts and like kind of kid kid like clothes long sleeve t-shirts yeah yeah dressed like a surfer kid i mean a skate kid yeah yeah but still having the like he is ultimately like a who lives near diamond square so like he he is a new york gay guy and, like, knows the brands and, like, has, like, he's, like, you know, if you're a gay guy in New York, you're, like, fashion adjacent, even if you're not. Yeah. Because it's just, like, that's what the world is there.

3:05So, yeah, like, finding that balance of, like, having these childlike shapes but still feeling like an actual gay guy in New York. Carl, I want to ask you about your first conversation with Jordan about the material. I think it was just about how much I absolutely loved the script. Not that I was surprised at all, but I'm genuinely surprised when I read a script that I, well, read straight through because I think I get distracted quite easily, but I'm so enamored by and have so many questions. I really also appreciated how open he was to kind of talking about the characters because, you know, we both have smaller parts, but again, every part plays a big role in this movie, but just to even kind of dissect and go into the things, like even the fitting I did with Emily was like, five hours long and we went into outfits you'll never see like it was just so much fun and to to really even discover the pieces she doesn't have because it's really about the things you don't see about a character which makes the character but really i just the first conversation we had was about how incredible i thought it was and how offended but also really no offended that he thought of me for this role but also very grateful that he thought of me and i was just yeah really excited to see the world he bought and i know that everything he does he puts so much into so i knew it was going to be amazing sometimes you never know but with this it was and just to add like with with cara like you know there there's a lot of actresses out there but like it's so important to me for it was important to me for this film that people understood what this world was and like cara had partied and and i had and i had partied with cara research I guess yeah yeah and it's like it yes actors can like play things that they've never known about but I find for these types of very specific stories and like queer stories that like there is just a deeper understanding that comes through when you've been in these spaces and it's like yeah you can go visit once or twice but when you've like put in the years to actually experience it.

5:14And grew up in those spaces. I love, I still love those spaces. You were sending me all those pictures from 2016. You were these weird people. But I still, even as a sober person, I go to those places. I love those spaces and how people represent themselves, especially with fashion and everything else. I'm gay, so it doesn't really, it's not the same. Oh, no, I'm sorry. So it makes a slight difference, but I know so many Sophies. Well, I think what's so interesting about the movie, first of all, we talked about your character. She's basically in costume all the time. And every time we see her, she's kind of a different person.

5:45Completely. But she has no idea who she is. And she obviously, you know, they were friends for a long time. And I do think she didn't really have any friends. And she's really, like, so enamored by him and wishes she knew who she was more. So much of what you've done, Jordan, is about kind of making fun of people who are self-absorbed. And this is the first time I see you do something that's about a character who has to go out of that narcissism. narcissism and i wonder where like first of all the word making fun of that kind of personality comes from for you yeah and then just evolving him in this piece yeah i mean i definitely have in historically played either like insane people or a narcissist or both or both or both and yet to me to me i don't find peter to i think he's definitely a little self-involved but like to me he's more of just like a lost soul.

6:40Lost. But in that way, the kid is self-absorbed. Yeah. He has to be shocked by being around the kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think he also, in a lot of ways, doesn't know who he is. And I think, you know, we get a little bit of his backstory that he, you know, was city kid and like, you know, I say f***ing 35-year-olds when he was 15, started partying really young in the city and then never stopped. So it's like... And lived with his mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so, like, when you've only known one thing, like, you don't even know who you are if you step out of it. So I think part of the reason he's still doing the drugs and doing the partying is because, like, he has no idea who the f*** he would be without it because he's never known anything else.

7:24And I think that's why, like, the ending is... The ending is so bittersweet and kind of sad to me because, like, I don't know, just seeing him in school and bartending, it's so descriptionless. And it's so like, he is back at like, just like a complete like square one. It's like, he's like a college kid. Except he's a square one as an adult rather than as a kid. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, he feels like a college kid. Like he is, and like, if you look at the extras in that scene, like they're all like 18 and he's this like 35 year old who's like, has so much more life experience, is like a very culturally aware person.

8:03And so, like, to think of him in those classes, it's just, it's sad. But it's, like, it's humbling, too. I think, like, Peter gets very humbled through this story. More to come with the cast of the Cannes Film Festival breakout film, Club Kid, after this.

8:27There's the story you hear, and then there's the story behind it. Who's telling it? What are their motivations? What's at stake? I'm Brian Reed, and on my show from KCRW, Question Everything, we tell stories about power and influence and the ways that people are manipulating the truth. And we do that by talking to the people living with the consequences. My feed was flooded without my consent. I was targeted by Instagram. Listen to Question Everything wherever you get your podcasts. It's The Treatment. Ça va? Tu va bien? From the Cannes Film Festival. I'm Elvis Mitchell with a conversation with Jordan Firstman, who wrote, directed, and stars in Club Kid and his co-stars Diego Conva and Cara Delevingne.

9:12I think though it's about the sort of the acceptance of compromise, which is being an adult. It's just things you can't do anymore. Yeah. But one of the things I thought about Kramer vs. Screamer especially is when we go to where his son is DJing and then first of all, that's when we get that real splash of color that takes us back to the beginning of the movie. Yeah. And he loses him. Yeah. And all the flashes are really bright and colorful, like the first club scene. Yeah. And when he runs out with him, it's like when Dustin Hoffman's running across the park. Yeah, that's a direct reference.

9:39Yeah, yeah. When I was auditioning kids, there were like some teeny, teeny, tiny ones. And the Kramer versus Kramer, he's carrying him. So I was like, could I carry this kid? And then with Reggie, I was like, should I carry? I'm like, I can't carry Reggie. It's just too weird. It doesn't make sense. So we kind of just run together. but it was always that shot was from the beginning in my mind. The reason, too, I was saying to Diego that Oscar is the adult, because that's the reason that Peter falls for him, because he does represent, he's kind of an aspirational figure for him, isn't he? Well, yeah, I think Oscar is, I like to think about this like angels in a way, these people that come through into your life at some moment, you know.

10:26but also I think that Oscar sees this joy in Peter. Like, Peter is such a broken character in a way, but at the same time he's so joyful and the moment he finds, well, Reggie, Arlo, he really committed and I think Oscar sees that. You know, the idea, in the first conversation with Jordan, we kind of have this idea, like, why Oscar is a child therapist, right? why he is working in this social worker situation, trying to help the childhood or whatever. I think Oscar had a situation in his past. And I love something you just said, like characters are based on what we don't see. That's when you can find the core of the character.

11:11And we don't see Oscar's past. But I do know in my heart that Oscar had a situation. He's trying to help other kids and trying to find a way to help in a way. And you said, I mean, you, not to reveal so much, but you had someone that came into your life at a certain age. My first conversation with you, it was like a f***ing two hours conversation. And I told Jordan, like, really important thing in my life. And I had a complex childhood, mostly in my teenage years. I was not in New York partying in the 2016. I was in Mexico City doing other stuff. And there was this guy, right? Like someone that came into my life and he was kind of a social worker and helped me and literally changed my life.

12:00I was living a different situation. I was not here being interviewed in camp. And this guy really helped me and this guy had a past and his past was like complex. And I think that's Oscar. And I kind of based Oscar in this idea of a guy that has been true a lot, but he doesn't have a family. And when he finds Peter, and this idea of like Peter and trying to create this family with Arlo, he falls in love with that. And I really love the last scene of the movie, well, my scene with you when Oscar is behind you, because the idea, so that's, in my opinion, what Oscar wanted the whole movie, just being part of a family.

12:45Sounds really like clean and let's do a family, But it is really beautiful, the idea that he finds something in Peter that is just that Peter cares. It's the treatment from the Cannes Film Festival and my conversation with the group from the film Club Kid. Writer, director, star, Jordan Firstman, and co-stars Cara Delevingne and Diego Galva. One of the things that, as you're talking, Diego, it takes him a while to touch Peter for the first time. because when they're first walking, he's not that close to me. He's actually looking at him, wondering what he should do about him, if he's going to invest or not.

13:22And Peter's just so open because he's the first adult in the entire movie and he acts like an adult. That's why I said aspiration, I can maybe be somebody like this. But at the same time, he's kissing his client. He's an adult, but we all commit mistakes. So the moment when Peter, this is not a date, I can't kiss you. And then what kind of movie is she like? I think it's also really sweet because in that scene, it's so beautiful because you kind of see Peter the first time see himself through someone else's eyes of the potential of what he could be. Exactly. Which is also why it's so interesting when you say you never pick up Reggie.

14:01It's because you're both kids at that point. You're like, why would I... Another kid picking up another kid, you wouldn't... That's why they're kind of running, holding hands. Yeah, yeah. You said something, Carla, that's really interesting, is that those clubs, and they still are kind of like safe spaces that you're the right person. They may seem wild to the outside person. That's why when we first go in there with Peter, it feels really inviting because that's his home. And when we go back with him, with Arlo, it's not his home anymore. But those people there still seem like, you know, there's nothing, nobody's being violated or anything.

14:33It's just the wrong place for a child. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, I wanted that first, the first time he DJs and it's like it's intentional with the characters they're like we're going into this party with a new energy we want it less druggie we want new people we want it to have have an innest like a party like feel joy again like the drugs have in New York have stripped so much of the joy from Yeah we want the music from partying like we want the music and Arlo is really just there for the music Yeah and that's the way that everybody connects that's what it feels like a really safe space That's why you said that, you remind me what those clubs are still like when you go, the right music's playing.

15:13Yeah. It's the best. Because you feel that connection. And it's family. And you're talking about family because everybody in the movie is looking for family and a safe space. She loses her family and it breaks her heart. Yeah. 100%. It's also really, especially when it's like, you know, before he's about to prepare for the meeting with Sophie or something. And those scenes where you're just there and the light is flashing on you and the light's coming through the window. even though it's so gorgeous, but most people know that feeling of like, oh, it's like it starts off as the home and it becomes this like, trying to hold on to this thing that isn't actually real or tangible.

15:50It's really, the way it's shot and perceived and all of it is just so, so smart because you really feel it. And that very beginning scene with your crew, that's your family. Yeah. And that's when it became clear to me, by the end when Oscar's in bed with his back turn, he's finally got a real family. He doesn't have to look at him. Just know his presence. Having that close to him, his back being turned. I just thought that was such a beautiful moment in the movie. Yeah, and I've said this, but it's my favorite scene of his acting, too, even though he doesn't say anything. You just feel his support there.

16:27And when he chooses to touch me and chooses to be there and chooses to say hi to Arlo and really just lets me cry in his arms, which is like, you know, that's family. But let me ask you guys, and I'll start with you, about being at the premiere and what that felt like. Wow, I was in Los Angeles, and I think my publicist, they want me to see the movie before coming here, and I said, no. This is my first time in Cannes. I feel really, really, really proud. of being part of this field, because I have another one that nobody's talking about. Beautiful. But I watched the movie for the first time yesterday, and I could cry, honestly.

17:15Like, I was that guy, right, in Mexico City, and my life changes because of movies and music, basically. I'm Arlo, in a way. Like, music changed my life and saved me so many times. and the other part that I'm alive now here is because of movies and I'm doing movies because I really think that they like if you're watching a movie you can have this it's like a rope like movies literally rescue me so many times and I really think this movie is special because I was watching it and it's so specific about this universe of your life but at the same time it's so universal so like for everyone in a way and I love the idea that everyone is invited.

18:01And you said it. And I really could cry right now, but I'm doing this because I want movies to be seen and I want to tell something. And the idea of this movie in the end for me is like a hug, it's like a tender movie and this party is being alive. Life is a party and everyone is invited. That's the idea of this movie, in my opinion. I had seen the movie, which I don't regret. I think a lot of Jordan's friends and specifically, or like agents and stuff had told me how good the movie was and how good specifically I was in it, to the point where I didn't believe them, because I was like, you were saying that so much that I like, don't believe you.

18:40Like, I can't have, I don't know. So I was like, please, can I watch it? Because I'm honestly quite worried now that people are saying that so much. And I watched it the first time, and I think, I mean, watching it here with everyone and having seen it, actually, it was really interesting, because the perspective and what you see the second time is honestly so incredible. For me, it touched on a lot, things that I find so important, which is about finding purpose through drug problems or abuse or whatever else that might be and feeling lost and finding a purpose because really it is, people have kids that have problems and they can't change their lives around, but to see that and to have that message and their bond specifically, everyone's bond in the relationship, in the movie changes and becomes so much deeper.

19:27Once Jordan's character's relationship like deepens with himself, you know, everyone's relationship is allowed to go as deep as his relationship with himself, which I think for me was so beautiful. I mean, I haven't cried and laughed that much in a movie. Just to be able to feel that range of emotion through watching something with everyone next to you in the cast, hearing Reggie crying next to me and like his mum behind him, it's just like such an amazing thing. and it really is the true meaning of family. That, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we had done like one or two small test screenings, so I had seen it.

20:04I have a brilliant mentor in New York named Stephen Winter. I don't know if you know Stephen Winter, but genius filmmaker, and he's supported me since I was like 18 or 19 years old. And looking at him at the first screening I did with tears in his eyes, like, it was a lot for me, and like it was just like the proudest I had ever been of myself and I think you know I like Peter and struggle with confidence sometimes and like I I don't know I just feel with this film like I put everything into it like I just put every ounce of myself and I put it all out there and I worked really hard on it and it was so hard to make and I fought for the things that were important to me and I fought for you know the cast I wanted I fought to have non-actors I you know what I mean like it was I fought to shoot in real clubs and so just I I feel proud of myself and like I feel like I I made the thing that I always have wanted to make and I made a movie that I feel like a younger version of me would love Yeah, I'm losing my edge.

21:24I'm losing my edge. Director, writer, and actor Jordan Firstman had his debut feature film, Club Kid, premiere at the Cannes Film Festival. He and his co-stars, Cara Delevingne and Diego Calva, joined me for our conversation. I think we'll be hearing more from them. Previous interviews, such as Bono from the Cannes Film Festival Yeah, I didn't believe it either At the archive, kcrw.com slash thetreatment At kcrw.com slash thetreat Our series with artists on inspiration We have new ones drop every week And this week is with the directors of the film Yuruptia, Pete O's, and Jeremy O 'Harris The show is produced and edited by Rebecca Mooney and mixed by Katie Gilchrist.

22:14To better days, everyone. Bonjour. It's The Treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell.

22:29I'm Elvis Mitchell.

22:43I'm losing my edge.