Will Poulter and Adam Meeks lead with empathy in ‘Union County’

0:00KCRW sponsors include Focus Features. From the acclaimed director of Jason Bourne comes The Uprising, starring Andrew Garfield, based on the true story that inspired the legend of Robin Hood. The Uprising, rated R. Now playing only in theaters. Discover it at Dolby Cinema. From KCRW Santa Monica and KCRW.com, it's The Treatment.

0:28Welcome to The Treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. So often we see stories about addiction and coping with addiction, and so often these stories lack compassion. That is not the case with the new film, Union County. I have with me its writer-director, Adam Meeks, and its star, Will Poulter. Guys, thanks so much for being here. And let me start with you, Adam, because it really, it finally is a story about compassion, isn't it? That's the hope, you know, and it stems from the real program that it's kind of made in collaboration with, which is a program full of compassion and led by, you know, a group of people who are, you know, as sort of nonjudgmental and kind of full of empathy as you could ever imagine.

1:10So it was really kind of inspired by what was going on in these rooms. It starts off in a really interesting way. There are real life testimonials from people who are going through the program. And at one point, you have an incredible person in the film, Annette played by, tell who the real life Annette is, who you have in the movie. Annette Dio is her name. She is the program director and administrator for this particular adult recovery court. And she is also happens to be a very good actor. So she plays sort of a fictional version of herself as well. And she's kind of the person in the film that allows for this whole kind of fiction and nonfiction blend to work because she can be, she is herself as the kind of heart and soul of this program.

1:59And then she's also a great actor who can, you know, more than hold her own opposite, you know, Will and other professional actors. And Will, first of all, thanks so much for doing this. But I have to say, so often we've seen you in parts, I mean, in Detroit or in Midsommar or in any number of things, the maze runner, which you've been in really harrowing situations. But my heart never went out to you more than seeing you in this film. This is just that you're in the corner of the frame in the very first shot. And we can feel how much your character is an exposed nerve in this, can't we?

2:34Will Poulter:Thank you for having us on, Elvis. it means a lot to be able to talk about this film on a platform such as this. You know, that's so interesting. Cody is a raw nerve. I think that's a really interesting observation, and I don't disagree. I think he's someone who is very kind of guarded, muted, and reserved. Something that Adam and I spoke about when kind of constructing Cody and kind of building out his backstory was this idea that there is a lot of suppressed sort of trauma and pain. And that trauma and the mental health struggles are very kind of informative when we're thinking about his relationship to substance use disorder.

3:18Will Poulter:Indeed, you know, I think one of the challenges that the film kind of puts in front of the audience is to sort of consider those things when we do consider the subject of addiction and we are faced with someone who is labeled as an addict. You know, can we extend ourselves to offer them the compassion and the level of empathy and consideration we'd afford to a friend, a family member, or even any stranger? Because, you know, the label of addict is so loaded and it's full of so much stigma and has been reinforced on screen with a lot of stereotyping. So humanizing Cody, showing his vulnerability and really unashamedly, I think, sort of exposing those moments where he is a raw nerve, for better or worse, was a very kind of like necessary part of heaping up that responsibility.

4:10Well, I think as you're talking, one of the things that we see in Cody is that he has internalized this stigma, even though it's not being cast out on him. At one point, Nett says something that's so beautiful, it's so real the way she says it. She says, this is not jail, this is not prison, but he's still reacting to this as if he's being in prison, because again, he sort of absorbed that shame that comes with addiction. And this is the way he reacts to being put in any place that's institutional.

4:37Will Poulter:Absolutely. I think there is a lot of internalized shame. And I think that one of the things that, you know, is earned, you know, over time within the program from what I observed and what I know is trust. You know, I think in a lot of cases, it's very difficult for, you know, anyone to trust an institution or a service because maybe of past experiences. And I think that what's so special about this program and what becomes very evident, both in the film and certainly from my experience of spending time in the rooms within the recovery facility and meeting service providers within the adult recovery program, is that there is so much dignity and so much humanity throughout how the program is designed.

5:26Will Poulter:And so I think that a certain amount of trust and safety develops over time through that program. And in that regard, it really is very different to some of the alternatives. This program has a success rate of over 50%. And it belongs to a sort of wider, broader group of problem solving courts across America, of which there are about 4000. There are 250 in Ohio, and not all of them are focused on substance use disorder, but they do follow that principle of treating people with compassion and empathy and really providing a more sort of holistic wraparound sense of care and support, as opposed to sort of treating people kind of punitively and criminalizing folks without giving them, I think, the adequate chance to rehabilitate.

6:18Well, Adam, let me say something to you, because the opening of it, In this way, it's almost like watching improvisational theater because there's a sense of sort of real communication between the people on camera and the judge. And there is an honesty in there because people want to sort of express themselves in their best ways at the start. And I think that's what gives us a connection and a sense of hope for the movie. And I want to talk to you about starting that because that's a really sort of crucial and nuanced way to give an audience empathy for the characters, not just sympathy. One of the kind of first ideas or things I responded to in this film was sitting in on these meetings and observing exactly what we're seeing in the opening of the movie, which is folks being called up, stepping up to the podium and kind of sharing their life updates and their updates in recovery with the judge and the team.

7:14And to me, like that is where such deep humanity first emerges in, you know, within the program and where it's kind of on full display, I should say. So for me, it was like if we can sort of bookend the film with Cody at different stages of stepping up to the podium, that the film could kind of hold all of that and kind of lead the way into this community through that. voluntary, willing, and kind of generous sharing, you know, from the participants. You know, it was always, when we filmed it, it was always voluntary. And what that stuff, those opening interactions in the film are documentary interactions.

7:56And so it was always the hope that it would be our kind of like, our compassionate and empathetic lens into the story and into the community. It's the truth. We're talking about the new film, Union County, with its writer-director, Adam Meeks, and star Will Poulter. And Will, I can't help but notice, and I think we talked about this a little bit at Sundance, that one of the things I think you have a real affinity for is showing how pride can get in the way of somebody's development. And it's interesting because we were just talking about Detroit before we got started here. But I didn't even think back to the Redmen.

8:29So often you play guys who lead with their pride and then have to reckon with the idea of growing up. It's really interesting the way you play this with or make this play out with Cody. That's interesting.

8:42Will Poulter:You know, with Cody, I'd almost sort of suggest that there was certainly kind of both at play in the sense that initially I think there's a sense of pride to sort of overcome or reckon with in asking for help or even kind of being willing to engage with the program. I think sometimes that's one of the hardest steps. And, you know, from what I know within the recovery community is the success rate is so high. Annette Dio is the real director of this program is so trusted and beloved in the community and participants speak so highly outside of the recovery community about the efficacy of this program that maybe that hesitancy to engage with the program is lessened just because of how successful it is and what a kind of amazing figure Annette and so many of her colleagues are.

9:37Will Poulter:Later on, you know, there's another kind of contention with pride for Cody. And it's actually in the form of developing a sense of pride in himself, learning a new form of pride, one that is kind of akin to self-respect. And you actually see him feel proud, maybe for one of the first times in his life. It's when Annette sits opposite him in the office and she tells him he's doing a good job and we're all real proud of you. One of the things that Adam and I spoke about is how do we kind of show and share without telegraphing it or betraying the kind of, I suppose, tone of naturalism that the film is somewhat defined by?

10:23Will Poulter:How do we show this idea that that's maybe the first time Cody has ever experienced something like that? And what does that pride do to someone on a journey of self-development? And I think it's critical to him keeping going. And ultimately, it's what affirms his trust in Annette. And I think it also leads to him picking up the phone to her at, you know, a critical moment in the film. We're going to take a little break talking with the team behind the film Union County. It's writer, director Adam Meeks and its star and co-producer Will Poulter. It's the treatment. There's more to come.

11:04Will Poulter:KCRW sponsors include Focus Features. From the acclaimed director of Jason Bourne comes the thrilling new movie The Uprising, starring Andrew Garfield. In a land of kings, a man of the people will defy the most powerful empire on earth and ignite a revolution. Inspired by a true story, Experience the legendary epic and witness the rise of a legend. The Uprising, rated R, now playing only in theaters. Discover it at Dolby Cinema. Welcome back. I'm Elvis Mitchell. It's The Treatment. I'm talking to Adam Meeks, who's a writer-director of the independent film Union County, which had a big premiere at Sundance this year and is now playing out around the country.

11:42And also its star and co-producer, actor Will Poulter. For me, Adam, just seeing the way that Cody connects that car, that old Cadillac that he has, it still means something to him because it's his home at the very beginning. Because when we meet a lot of these people, especially at the beginning, the ones who are really successful and thriving in the program are beaming and they're taking some pride in themselves. And part of the relationship that Annette has with them as a character and as a real-life figure is sort of getting to sort of say, your pride can get in the way. Listen to what's really going on around you.

12:13And it's really about people wanting to communicate with themselves, this story, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. In some ways, I think that's the first step towards then being able to kind of open yourself up to a community, you know, is by being comfortable enough with yourself or recognizing elements in yourself that can be seen by other people, you know, and you trust them to see you as you are and you're okay with that. And I think that that's an ongoing path for human beings in general. And it's something that became so just kind of more universal maybe in this community and with this story. It's the treatment.

12:54I'm talking to the team behind the film Union County. It's writer, director, Adam Meeks, and its star, Will Poulter. A big part of the story for me is just as the story goes on, Cody's sort of forced to recognize the fact that he's not comfortable around people. Again, this gets back to this being used to being judged as a foster child, as an addict. He's so busy judging himself that he wants to relieve other people, the necessity of judging him. And he has to get himself past all that. And that comes from making him a social creature. And again, it's just so fascinating to watch this kind of evolution because the movie packs a lot into a very short time.

13:36I think I always saw it as like this kind of observation of a human being like almost blossoming. I think that's something that is so beautifully embodied by Will's performance is, you know, the way you see the body language and the way he carries himself shift and open up and elongate and a certain kind of eye contact develop and all these things that come from a person coming back into themselves. And I think that in the same way the film was intentionally shot in the spring in a place where the landscape is coming into bloom. And, you know, we worked with all the departments. Our costume designer, Lizzie Donilon, is amazing.

14:17And she and I talked a lot about the way he starts. He can start to fill out his own clothing and start to kind of carry himself with more self-assurance. And all of that is, for me, true to the process of recovery. And it's something that's really inspiring to see over a period of time. And I wanted the film to cover enough time that we could see Cody starting to come back to himself again in all those ways that are, you know, sort of observable. And it's just something that Will performs. And it's almost funny to say perform because it never felt acted for us when we were making it. It just felt fully inhabited.

14:58Part of it too is watching you, and I know you're tall, so it's like Cody's trying to get below people's line of sight so he doesn't want to be seen by people at the very beginning and wearing clothes that are a couple sizes too big so he can sort of hide in these clothes, and he's always got the bill of his cap sort of pulled down. So it's like he's trying to disappear in front of people and to have him sort of reckon with the fact that he exists in the room and he doesn't have to be afraid of being sort of supplanted by his foster brother or that he can talk to a woman that females in particular we can see his anxieties with can't we yeah absolutely

15:37Will Poulter:and also I'm glad you mentioned that just because it gives me an opportunity to to mention two incredible and I'm hesitant to use the word performance as well for for the reason that Adam cited um because both of them are just so stunning that what they did didn't feel like performance but Elise Keebler who was just phenomenal in the film and then also Emily Mead who played my sister Kat you know I think that his relationship to Kat is certainly one such relationship where the shame around what I think he put his sister and his family through when he was in his addiction and and gripped by his addiction and you know misrepresenting himself and who he kind of like truly is is something that manifests physically in front of her I think looking at her in the eyes is very, very difficult.

16:24Will Poulter:You know, the scene whereby he goes to Kat's house to try and kind of make amends at a time that feels, I think, slightly premature. And it's a stage that he's sort of rushing to and is clearly not quite ready for. You see the sort of physical discomfort in just even trying to present himself to her. And then, you know, with Elise, I think, you know, her performance as Anna is so wonderful. You know, I think what she was able to provide Cody was this sort of safe, non-judgmental space, which, you know, I think was as much a surprise to Cody as anything else. I think, you know, the assumption for Cody is that anyone who knows that he's an addict would not want to spend a moment of time with him.

17:14Will Poulter:And not only is she part of the sober support community and she herself is in recovery, but she doesn't judge him for that label and she doesn't buy into the stigma and she sees past that and into the kind of human being he is. And I think that's very, very healing for him as well to have someone who he trusts, gravitates towards, you know, feels the kindness of not judge him and extend themselves to him is massive for his personal growth. And I want to ask you about your first conversations with Bill about getting to do this because so many of the things that he does as an actor, so many of his strengths really lend themselves to the story about somebody coming to recognize that he's a person of worth and isn't always defined by his past.

18:02It's amazing to think back on our first conversation, Will, because it almost feels like a lot of what we're talking about now, we were so excited about then. Like it was, we were just on the same page. And so we wanted to make the film the same way. And for the same reasons, I had seen so much of what Will does so beautifully in this film and in many of his other performances. And there was just, I don't know, I think I almost knew before I met him that he was Cody. And then within five minutes of meeting him, I knew. Then I talked to Noah Centineo. Who plays his brother. Who plays his younger brother, yeah.

18:42And he told me, he said, this is so exciting because I feel like they had worked together before. And he said, I've come to kind of feel like Will is like a big brother to me in real life. I knew based on what he had done before, based on the nature of our conversation and the fact that he was, you know, in some ways going to be on the front lines of the collaboration with this community. I just knew that the film was in the best hands, you know, both, you know, with him as an actor and as a as a producer.

19:09Will Poulter:For me, any hesitancy I might have about being involved in this project was if I was going to be collaborating so closely with a director who was at any point at risk of being extractive or telling this story about a community as opposed to with. and the spirit with which Adam has always approached this story, a story that takes place in the place that he grew up with many of the people that he knows, you know, to have the privilege of being able to work in collaboration with him and be trusted by him is not something I take for granted. In fact, it's one of the biggest privileges I've had in my career.

19:49And all of us

19:50Will Poulter:really followed Adam's lead. Adam set this tone together with Annette, of course, but set this tone of, you know, the utmost respect and compassion for the people we were working with. And it made for one of the most rewarding, if not the most rewarding sort of on-set experience I've ever had. And, you know, Adam as a filmmaker is truly, truly exceptional. You know, I haven't come across anyone like him and I think he's largely incomparable. And the fact that this is his first feature is astonishing, I think, to a lot of people. You know, I'm so excited for what he's going to go on to do because the quality of the work is matched by his conduct and the way that he directs not just what you see on screen, but everything that goes into making it a reality.

20:42We're talking about the film Union County with its writer, director, Adam Meeks, and its star and co-producer, Will Pulsar. Guys, thanks so much for doing this. Thanks for making the time. Thank you so much for having us. It's really a pleasure to talk to you always.

20:56Will Poulter:Thank you so much, Elvis. Really grateful.

21:08Actor Will Poulter has worked with such directors as Oscar winner Catherine Bigelow for her fact-based drama, Detroit, and Oscar winner Alondra Gonzalez and Yuritu for his fact-based film The Revenant. Poulter co-starred and co-produced his newest film, Union County, based on an actual addiction treatment program. It premiered at the 2026 Sundance Film Festival. Poulter was joined by its writer-director Adam Meeks, who made his feature film debut Behind the Camera. At the archive, kcrw.com slash thetreatment, you'll find conversations with other talents who discover truth with film, such as Alejandro Gonzalez and Yurita.

21:55And kcrw.com slash thetreat is the home for creators to examine and report on moments of inspiration in their lives. The newest is from professor and author Elizabeth Pryor. The daughter of comedy legend Richard Pryor talks about a film close to home that rocked the world. The show is produced and edited by Rebecca Mooney and mixed by Katie Gilgrass. To better days, everyone, I'm Elvis Mitchell. It's The Treatment.

22:43KCRW sponsors include Focus Features. From the acclaimed director of Jason Bourne comes The Uprising, starring Andrew Garfield, based on the true story that inspired the legend of Robin Hood. The Uprising, rated R. Now playing only in theaters. Discover it at Dolby Cinema.