20VC: $0-$260M in Revenue in Three Years: How We Did It | You Need to Work Weekends to Win — Most Founders Aren't Ambitious Enough | The Revolut Playbook: Speed, Urgency, Extreme Ownership, and Zero Excuses with Alan Chang @ Fuse Energy

24:02It's been flat. In China, it's gone up by seven times. And if you look at the build-out in China, right, they have truly vertically integrated energy companies run by the state, from generation to the grid and distribution. and whilst in the West, there are people debating, oh, is renewables better? Is oil and gas better? Then it's becoming a very political thing. In China, they build everything. In China, they deploy more solar than all Western economies combined. In China, they deployed more gas, more coal, more grid. They've laid more cables of grid than all Western economies combined. So they're just building everything.

24:38Clearly, they understand the importance of energy costs and they're just building everything. I think that's a model economy we should follow for energy policy. Do you stand by the belief that we're all in the same WhatsApp groups and everyone says, ah, but the level of talent coming out of Imperial and Cambridge and Oxford, absolutely we can parallel the US. Do you stand by that on talent levels in the UK? I think talent levels in the UK is good. Ultimately, higher education. I personally receive higher education in the UK. I think it's world class. and ultimately this is the key ingredient to build anything successful.

25:13Although short term I'm bearish in the UK, but long term I'm bullish. What makes you bearish right now in the UK? Current government is heading in the wrong direction. We need deep deregulation so it's easier to build and there's a lot of talk about growth, but it's just talk and no action. Respectfully, I don't know how you can be bearish in the short term and bullish in the long term. When you look at the cyclical structural decline that we're heading into. That is multi-decade, actually, and it's very difficult to reverse out of. So with respect, I don't know how you can be long-term bullish, but short-term bearish.

25:46I think a lot of people with common sense are realizing we're in a bad situation. What makes me optimistic is because when I speak to people, there is some common sense. Hopefully, those people with common sense will elect a more sensible government in the future that will do the right thing. With respect, do you think that's actually a fair assessment, though? I mean, right now, it looks like Nigel Farage and reform will be that government. And actually, when you look at populace and the UK populace, transparently, it's not the intellectual Matt Clifford that is the average person on the street.

26:17I think what's key is the next government, because ultimately, I think deregulation is you just need a will, like a very, very strong will to do it. As long as, you know, the following governments can attract a top team around them, and being advised the rights regulations to look at and the delete or reform i think we could do it do you feel you have a political party home today i feel kind of politically lost if i'm honest which is like it used to be a kind of conservative now i don't feel any particular allegiance to conservatives under can be to be honest but i don't feel particularly strong belief in nigel farage and reform i think labor's terrible but i don't feel like i have a political home like i used to I want to make sure there are people who are competent to lead the country, right?

27:04I want to make sure the most competent individuals are leading the country, regardless of party. Who would you most like to see? Matt Clifford is a pretty good choice. I'm probably in the same camp as you for now. We said about talent in the UK. One thing that's always very hard with talent is detecting it. And part of that is the interview process. And you helped me, again, hire my chief of staff even. when you look at green flags in interview processes that excite you what are some of the best signals that one can give in an interview process basically when i when i explain to the candidate you know about what we're trying to build a fuse ambitions how we want to be a number one energy company in the world the hard work that requires to build it like what i usually see is like the body language right as well as a facial expression like are they leaning in or they're leaning out and you want to be hiring people who are leaning in i don't like bouncers either you You know when you look at someone's CV and it's like one year, one year, one year, one year.

27:57Yeah, that's also not great. Anything else where you're like, eh, not great? Fluffy CVs for me. Like, okay, you're hiring a marketing manager. I want to see, I increased MQLs by 38%. I did that through these three core channels. I learned this about Facebook advertising, but then it saturated when we hit expand. I'm like, ooh, very detailed. Like clear attribution led data. I would say very long CVs is bad. I think it should be maximum page. Like if Elon Musk can fill, put a CV in one page, So could you. Yeah, it reminds me of like, you know, like your first ever CV, right? And you're trying to fill the page and you couldn't think of anything to put.

28:31And you're like, put you in the like special skills like Microsoft Word. It's got that type of vibe, right? Professional tiddlywinks player, other hobbies, skiing, art. I fucking hate art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree with you. Okay, so we have that. How do you structure your hiring process? I'm always looking to be better at hiring. How do you structure it What would be your biggest advice to me on how I should optimize mine? Yeah, I think first define the skill sets you need, right? So for example, for a software engineer, it could be coding skills, system design, problem solving, and as well as culture fit.

29:06So we basically find, okay, who is the best coder in the company? Who is the best assistant design? And then we assign those people to assess those skills individually. And then at the end of the process, they kind of get a grade, right, for every single step. if they above a certain threshold, then we offer. And that's also how we decide on how much we offer, right? So as a company, we don't actually use any comp bands. We simply look at the grades, and the higher the grade, the higher our bid, because ultimately we're buying skills. Wow, sorry, this is really interesting. So you will essentially say, okay, we are looking for a software engineer, and we need, I don't know, you choose your language, whatever we're going for.

29:45We need X language, and then you will rank them out of 10 on that one core skill, and then you will assign them a salary as a result of that. Actually, we don't even look at language. So although our whole backend is in Python, we will hire any backend developer even if they know nothing about Python. So it's a coding challenge in the language of their choice. It's system design, which is about how you architect the whole system. Problem solving, which is, have they successfully solved the problem in the past, whatever that is, as well as culture fit, right? And basically, if they get, let's say, straight A's in every single one, we bid a very, very high offer.

30:19okay, they are a seven out of 10. Should you just not hire them? Should it not be like an all in, we should give them the top whack or don't hire them at all? Yeah, so our threshold is we will hire anything above a B. If you get straight Bs, you'll still get an offer, but the offer will be much lower and it could be below what you're making today. If you have a better offer elsewhere, like good luck to you. Why would you do that? That feels like to me, like in venture, we'd say that's like a nah deal. Well, ultimately, to be clear, B is still pretty good. A is exceptional. So B is like this is where the bar is.

30:56And I'll say you can still be a very solid performer if you're B. The difference between a straight B candidate and a straight A candidate is simply compensation. And for a straight A candidate, we have made offers that are much higher than what they make today. And even if we know that, that's okay. Because we want to make sure we're a no-brainer for you, such that you will never think about leaving. How fast do you know when someone's not very good? A month, two months. Do you pull the cord that quick? We always give them a verbal warning first. When you give a pip, does it ever actually get better?

31:30Well, we don't really have formal pips. I don't believe in pips. Why? I think it's a waste of time. Like, just give them a warning. Because most people we hire, they're already self-aware, right, of where they fall short. Even before we have the verbal warning, they kind of know they're falling short already. And yeah, basically the formal warning is simply, look, we're giving you one more chance. If you don't improve, you're out. When you look back, when you made a mishire, what did you not see that you should have seen? I used to overvalue IQ, didn't put enough weighting on deeply caring. Can you explain that?

32:04Yeah. So what you want to do is hire someone who really deeply cares about the company and about the mission, right? Someone who would stay up late to fix this bug. or stay over the weekend to get this new feature shipped. Even if you hire someone very, very intelligent where they just don't care, it's also not going to work out. Is that not a game of luck in some ways? When you hire someone, you've never met them before, they're young, you have very little data on them, you don't actually know if they're going to give it a deal and work through Christmas to get that deal done, to get that project off the line.

32:39Is it not a game of luck? It's certainly not a game of luck. There are questions you can ask. So I usually pitch them at a company telling, okay, like we want to be a number one engine company, blah, blah, blah, right? I explain to them, look, you have many, many choices, right? You're obviously very, very talented engineer. You have many choices. You can work at any startup you want, any tech company you want. Are you really sure this is what you want to do, right? It's going to be very tough. There'll be tough times. You know, you have to constantly balance between shipping new features, fixing bugs, improving scalability of the platform.

33:11Like, why do you want to do this to yourself? Like, why are you sure you want to do this? And if they say, oh, I'm not sure, depends on the pay, blah, blah, blah, that means they're not up for it. If they lean in and they tell you, okay, I've been so bored at my corporate job, this is something I've been looking for, you know, for a very long time. Like, I'm in, then you know, right? Now, obviously, they can lie, right? But most, I would say, from my experience, they don't. Any big red flags around people and their title expectations? I want to come in, but I want to be a head of product. Is that okay?

33:41Or is it a, no, no, no, come in and earn the right. Any lessons around title and how they feel about title? Yeah, we've never given a head of position to anyone we've hired. We've only given to it based on performance. In terms of internal promotion? Yes. Any on salary where it's like, hey, listen, I'm being paid X at my current job. I need that to make this worth my time. Actually, for us, their expectations don't really matter. It's about their performance. either interview performance or performance in the company. And we will pay you top of market if you perform very well. What non-obvious behavior do you not tolerate, even if they're really high performers?

34:21So I remember backwards when I was at Revolut, I was explaining to Nick, I actually forgot what it was, but I failed at something. And I was trying to explain to him why I failed. Then Nick sent me this article, it was about jobs, explaining the difference between a janitor and a VP. So the story goes, if the janitor fails to collect the trash because the locks in the office was changed, Jobs would say, okay, that's irritating, but that's acceptable because you're the janitor. Somewhere between a janitor and a VP, reasons stop mattering. So every single time when one of the leaders at Fuse explains to me why they failed and they couldn't hit a certain goal, I sent him this article.

35:01So can you just help me understand what the takeaway from that is? It's like, you know what? It doesn't fucking matter why you failed. The point is you failed in the expansion. What do you take from that? Excuses don't matter. Excuses don't matter. If you're a leader of an area in the company, excuses don't matter. If you succeed, you get all the praise. If you fail, you get all the blame. And it does not matter why you failed. Do you worry that you're ever too harsh on people? I get told I am. I don't care about your excuses. I care about outcomes. And people say that I'm too harsh, I'm too direct.

35:31Do you worry? I don't care what they think. and you don't worry about them leaving. Because for my best performers, for your use, where Nick at Revolut is saying that to you, Nick should be terrified that you leave. You're a core part of that business. I want to protect you and look after you. And when you say, dude, there's a lot of reasons why, I don't know, Poland didn't work in the expansion, and da-da-da-da-da. Okay, Alan, you're my guy. I'm here for you, and thank you for explaining that to me. I want to protect my best performers. Well, I would say I don't think that's protecting. That's just hiding information from your best performers.

36:06Ultimately, your best performers, they're smart, they're hardworking, they're not dumb. And initially, I took that feedback to heart and I was resisting at first. I thought it was unfair, but then I thought more about it and it made me a better person. So I thank him for sending me the article. What I found is usually top performers internalizes negative feedback very well. They take negative feedback to heart and they find ways to improve. If there are people who don't take negative feedback well, I don't think they're top performers. What was the bit of feedback that you found most hard to take?

36:38You have to assume the person giving you negative feedback have the best intentions for you. And once you realize that, and it's nothing personal, you can take all negative feedback. Even if it's very harsh. Was there a bit of feedback that you found the hardest to give? No. It's very important you create a culture of truth-seeking. And the truth is very ugly, might hurt someone's feelings. You should still say it. because it'll make that person better. Is there anything that you shouldn't say because it ultimately doesn't make them better? Well, if I keep giving negative feedback to a person that they haven't improved, then I just stop bothering.

37:11They can leave the company. Do you think there's a bit of a culture of fear around you? Like if you look, again, I love Nick, and I think he's a phenomenal leader and one of the greatest founders I've ever interviewed ever, and I've done 1 ,000 founder interviews. But I mean, that's not, I don't know, whatever the right term, let's not shy away from it. People are scared of him. is it bad to have a fear-based leadership? What matters is people need to feel like they can speak the truth. And you do with Nick? Yes. I tell him if I think it's a bad idea, I tell Nick. Now, he can disagree with me, and sometimes I change his mind, sometimes I don't.

37:45But I do tell him the truth. What specific decision on product or strategy do you think moves the needle most with Revolut? Was there one, like, we have to go into crypto, we have to go into stock trading, we have to do x country we have to invest in x no because the answer is we need to do everything yeah i think as we build a company realize there's so many opportunities and we just need to pursue all of them that advice is completely counter what every founder is being told that you need to focus you need to create a product for a very specific customer base and you need to deliver that excellent experience and focus focus focus there's so many shiny objects you can't pursue them all that advice is completely counter that.

38:27What would you say to them listening who are now confused? I actually think there are not enough ambitious founders out there. Because ultimately, the throughput of the company, like how many parallel work streams you can take at a given time is dictated by a number of great leaders you have in the company. And the zero sum mindset will be, okay, I only have that many leaders in the company. But in some cases, it could just be the founders themselves. Therefore, I'm just going to pursue these things. The expansionist mindset would be, I need to hire more leaders in my company so I can pursue more, right?

38:58So I'll argue we're in the business of expanding things. So rather than you try to play the zero-sum game, you should try and figure out ways to, you know, hire more leaders so you can pursue more. What does your direct report structure look like? Jensen has popularized having, you know, 50 and being so involved in the minutiae of a large amount of the business in terms of surface area. To what extent do you agree with that versus the delegate to fantastic leadership like you kind of mentioned there in terms of increasing surface area? So I would say, yeah, I think I have many direct reports. I don't know how many.

39:31I would probably lean towards what Jensen is doing because ultimately I don't even think of them as direct reports. I think of them as, you know, going back to self-guiding missile analogy, right? You don't need to manage those people. Like you discuss and you debate about the target, right? But once you both agree on a target, then that's it, right? You don't really have to manage them. You just monitor and make things that are okay, but that's about it. Talking about monitoring and management, your offices are in Canary Wharf, not the obvious place for startups in London, Shoreditch kind of most famous Silicon Roundabout.

40:04Why are you in Canary Wharf? So first of all, it's probably the only place in London where you can keep expanding offices, right? So you can keep upgrading office without incurring a big penalty in your lease. second reason it's it's far away from the party you know there if you if you if you work around here it's uh there's this thing going on this bar right or this this club right um i think there's too much going on in west london too many distractions or it's can't care of that there's nothing going on it's just work and nothing else so do you not think that like i live here but i'm fucking disciplined i don't go to parties i don't drink i don't do anything but work and gym is that not the secret to being a great entrepreneur discipline i think so but i'm talking about other people in the team.

40:46You know, it's like, if you see a full bar downstairs, I think you're tempted, right? You might, oh, I'm gonna, you know, pop down for a pint, right? Do you expect people to work weekends? Yeah, I'd say like, as I said before, like this is very hard, like this only way to do it, like we're going against big, big, big energy companies with like huge balance sheets, you know, billions in revenue. Only way to win is with much more balance sheets, much less cash, much less resources is work ethic. And work ethic gets you a long way. In the early days, you built the MVP with just a million bucks, right?

41:22Before any outside funding. Can you just talk to me about that? And what you advise founders on MVPs and going to V1 with minimal resources having done that? Yeah, so at the time, we wanted to build a full stack energy company. And we're a million bucks. So what we need for full stack energy company, we need power generation, We need a license. We need someone to help us guide through regulation. We need a qualified trader. So you need to be qualified to trade energy. And we also need a qualified electrician. So we found a single wind turbine in north of Scotland that the seller is willing to sell for 750k.

41:58We found a license for 75k. We convinced the former CEO of Gem to become an advisor with With just equity and no cash, my co-founder Charles became a qualified trader and electrician. So we acquired all the skills and assets we need to build a MVP for SAC Energy company. So my advice is I don't think you need a lot of capital. You don't need a huge seed round to get started. If you can, why don't you? There's so much venture money to do, dude. If you can, why don't you? I think you could. If you could, you should. But you could. Anyone would have written you. You could say, I'm doing a file app.

42:35I'll give you 10 million bucks. The disgraceful thing about you, Alan, is I would have given you money for almost anything. But, and this is like my biggest lesson in the state. I listen to you and I just die inside, honestly. I do also remember, dude, you have the token element, which just, it was hard to digest. We chatted about when you were racing your first round and one of your investors said that I had to ask you, no, it wasn't, it was actually Antoine, who said, is it true that you rocked up to Balderton with your Ferrari parked outside and then strolled in and said, I'm going to raise a$60 million seed round?

43:12Yeah, there's some truth to that, yeah. How did it go down? I think it went pretty well. You raised 78 in the first round. Yeah, I think they really, really like the concept. And I think what they realized is a pretty good strategy. And I realized after a lot of their investments, because they made so much money from the Revell investment, They just keep investing in extra level teams. Is there anything that you would do differently about the early rounds of funding with the benefit of hindsight that you have today? Yeah, I think raise at too low price. Could you have raised it higher? Could have.

43:45Why didn't you? So we had a price in mind. What was the price? It was roughly where we were at, about 140 actually. We had an oral agreement with Bolton, we'll take the time sheet. But we haven't signed the time sheet yet. And then later there was another investor that came and said, I will offer you a higher term sheet. We said no, because we already agreed with Bolton, we'll take the term sheet. And you regret that? No, like I would say, I regret saying yes. It's too early because we could have raised a better terms. So what would you advise founders on the back of that? Like ultimately, I would say the, I underestimated the value of the company at the time because I didn't realize, you know, investors put such a high price on it.

44:25I'll say wait for a bit longer. At the time, it was like effectively the second term sheet we had. By the same time, I believe if you say you're going to do something, you should do it. And that's why we took Bollaton's term sheet, even though we could have received a better one. You raised a recent round,$75 billion. Yeah. That's often what's referred to as a suicide round, which is a very high price with not actually that much money going into the business. Why is that a good round for the company? Yeah, so the company is doing over 400 million revenue, annualized revenue. 400 million? Yeah.

45:03When was day one revenue? What's that slope? So in terms of financial year, we increase our revenue 10x every year since inception. The first year was 2 million pounds, so about three, just start for$3 million. Second year was 20 pounds, so roughly 25, 26. And then this year we're going to end at over 200 pounds. So yeah, roughly 260. You can't 10x again. We'll try. Where do you think you will land? If me and you have a bet, okay, and we'll sit here next. I mean, our business plan is much less than 10x, right, for next year. Is it 5x? Something around there, but we'll still shoot for 10. What would be the biggest barrier to you hitting a billion?

45:47There's one reason. What is it? I think it's speed of hiring quality engineering. That's the biggest barrier. There's no capital. It's quality engineering. Why do you like hiring Eastern European engineers? Because culturally, I think they favor technical education, and they have very strong work ethic. With the success that you've had, dude, what have been your biggest reflections on how you think about your relationship to money? For me, obviously money is great, but beyond levels of personal consumption, and I personally don't spend that much money. I think it becomes a means to an end. Can I be blunt and ask you, what is that level?

46:23And this is for me. I'm not sure what that is. I don't want to be on the hedonic treadmill, but I do think about that. Honestly, I think anything, I'd say number is probably like five. Five, I think is enough. Do you remember when you made your first real money? I do remember, yeah. How did it feel? First real. My Revolute account went from no money and 1 ,000x overnight. Did you sell much of your Revolute? No, only for personal consumption. I'm still very bullish on the company. How big can Revolut be? I often say publicly it's like easily a$250 billion business without the US. With the US, it's a$500 billion business.

47:02I think of a trillion dollar company. Do you think he'll be able to crack the US? If someone's going to do it, it's Nikola. At what price would you start to sell? Trillion. What does no one know about having money that people should know about having money? I think it buys you time. Actually, it buys you quite a bit of time back. Where do you spend to save time? I think having an assistant helps you save a lot of time. Like, so you don't have to do, waste a lot of time doing a lot of chores, travel. I think flying a coach just kills your, I think it just wastes two days. I think it's worth flying business.

47:38You know, you can work in a plane and not feel terrible, you know, the day after, right? You know, traveling better, eating better, and not wasting time on things outside the business. You can buy a lot of time back. Does it change your relationship? personal relationships? Maybe for the better, right? So you stop thinking about price tags, which is good, right? You just go wherever you want, eat wherever you want. So I think it does help in a positive way. But yeah, but also then you need to think like who your friends truly are, right? Have you ever had that question? Luckily, all my existing friends have not changed how they treat me after some success.

48:15But I have had a lot of long time from, you know, people went to school with dude i want to ask a quick fire answer i say a short statement you give me your immediate thoughts so what investor do you not have that you would most like to have one person you do you know what's really hard about what i do yeah is that i'm friends with the greatest founders yeah and in a lot of cases like you've invested in project europe and i have the joys of like knowing you and it really is a joy yeah and it's like what the why am i not invested in these companies i have this with like matty at 11 labs i'm just like oh it almost happened too early for me does that make sense it's like i became friends with these people and had the chance to invest when i was a kid yeah and i didn't know what i was doing yeah and had i had that now it would have been very different but it is like rank knees in order of importance luck talent and timing i think timing talent luck why timing first i think if you get the timing wrong even if you're the best team in the world, you're not going to make it.

49:20For example, I don't think Fuse could have been built 10 years ago. I think Fuse is only possible because the requirements have changed, right? Because the renewable penetration in the grid is so high, and the skills you need to, the ability to manage renewables is so different to how we used to generate and consume power. If you look at Revolut, Revolut is only possible because of the EMI license. And the EMI license was created just a couple of years before Revolute was founded. I don't think Revolute would be impossible 10 years before 2014. So I do think timing matters. And then the second thing is talent.

49:55I think these are two prerequisites. So if you have good timing, if you have good talent, I think luck will also come. What's been the hardest decision you've made in your career? Probably leaving Revolute. Did you want to stay to IPO? I do, I do. Ultimately, it's... Do you remember telling, Nick? I remember. Can you just tell me that? It was a very, very hard moment. And he asked me, are you sure, three times. And I said, I'm sure, three times. Where were you? What time of day was it? I think it was a Friday afternoon. It was actually the same meeting when you did a podcast with Nick. Wow. Yeah, it was that room.

50:33What did he say? Because respectfully, a lot of people have come and gone from Revolut. Yeah. But you were his guy. Was he visibly shocked? I don't know. He has this emotionless reaction. Yeah, just ask me, are you sure? Did he invest in Fuse? Yes, in the most recent round. In the most recent round? Yeah. Is it still open? I can't believe it. I said this to Massey the other day. I said, I can't believe we're still not invested. I'm just paying any price. I'm just pissed off. That's amazing. You said downstairs, being a CEO is not all it's cracked up to be. Why is it not always cracked up to be being CEO?

51:13I mean, I think there are pros and cons. I think there are pros, like at Revolut, I can basically get to pick the role I wanted, the problems I wanted to solve. But now I give that opportunity to other leaders within the company. That means by definition, I don't get to choose the things I do. What are you not doing today that you would most like to be doing? I would love to go much deeper on engineering, on hardware, like go into very low level details. How big is the biggest incumbent in this space? So you have the power incumbents, then you have the big oil majors, incumbents. If you look at big oil majors like Shell, they make a billion revenue a day, approximately.

51:53How big can Fuse be? I think we could be bigger than Shell. How much is Shell worth? I think it's worth just north of$300 billion. They're listed on the London Stock Exchange, so there's a discount. How the fuck does that make? Sorry, they do a billion in revenue a day, Yeah. And they're worth less than their annual revenue then? Yeah. I think if they were listed in the US, they'd probably be worth more. Would you list in the US? If we ever list, I think it would be the US, yeah. Would you list? I personally don't see a need to. There's a lot of liquidity in the private markets. And obviously there's additional overhead being a listed company.

52:26Like the only reason I see listing as a real need is if the liquidity dries up in the private markets. Do you let team members sell? Yeah. Yeah. Revolut was very tight on any secondary sales. It was like an incredibly guarded subject. Are you the same or are you a little bit looser? Well, I'd say like we do want to create liquidity opportunities for employee stockholders. And, you know, sometimes people need to buy a house, they need to buy a car, they need to, yeah, some liquidity is helpful. Final one for you, dude. I'd like to end on a tone of positivity and optimism. What excites you most in the next 10 years?

53:00We love to build a world where power is so cheap and abundant that any builder, AI or otherwise, don't even think about power anymore. And they can just build more and economies start growing again as a result. That would be great. Alan, I so appreciate you. I think you're one of the great entrepreneurs in the UK. I'm going to pass to you about investing. And I so appreciate our friendship. So thank you so much for doing this with me, dude. Thanks for having me. but before we leave you today as an investor i'm always on the lookout for tools that really transform how i work tools that don't just save time but fundamentally change how i uncover insights that's exactly what alpha sense does with the acquisition of tagus alpha sense is now the ultimate research platform built for professionals who need insights they can trust fast i've used before for company deep dives right here on the podcast it's been an incredible resource for expert insights.

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55:11It lets you see every tool, block the risky ones, and most importantly, it places AI guardrails to automatically redact sensitive data before it leaves your network. It's a unified platform for secure company-wide AI adoption and productivity. Tech leaders set policies and oversee usage. Business teams get the models they actually need. It's not about stopping innovation. It's about enabling it safely. Try nexos.ai yourself with a 14-day free trial at nexos.ai forward slash 20vc our link is in the description while nexos helps you run faster across revenue workflows vanter makes sure your security and compliance can keep up security and compliance done wrong is a giant headache security and compliance done right though well that's vanter vanter helps you earn trust and speed up growth no spreadsheets required for startups low on time and resources, Vanta becomes your first security hire, using AI and automation to get you compliant, fast, and unblock really big deals.

56:14And if you're big enterprises, Vanta is your AI-powered hub for compliance and risk, bringing together data from across your business and automating workflows so you can prove trust at any moment. Vanta scales with you at every stage. That's why top companies, from startups like Cursor to enterprises like Snowflake, choose Vanta. Do security and compliance right? My listeners can get$1 ,000 off Vanta by going to vanta.com forward slash 20VC. That's vanta.com forward slash 20VC for$1 ,000 off Vanta.