20VC: Inside KKR's Monster $8BN European Fund | The $500M Turkey Gamble That Went Wrong | Do Andreessen & General Catalyst Scare KKR? | Will AI Kill the PE Model? | Can The PE Model Survive without IPOs and Where is the Liquidity with Philip Freise

24:55Absolutely. And then it's like, but wait a minute, it's the best time ever. And if you're an LP, there's enough material there to be like actually they could be right and so I have to keep going. Do you agree with that? I agree. And that is why we don't see fun sizes having because exactly of what you said. A lot of these opportunities are so capital intensive because you suddenly have some interesting places to deploy. Now it doesn't mean that the fundamental underpinning of what we all do doesn't matter whether it's venture or private equity. We are the answer to the demographic crisis that Elon Musk is putting his finger on.

25:28We have an aging society everywhere. People are retiring ever later, but they have to retire. They have ever fewer babies. So if we don't have a capital stock compounding and accumulating for the benefits of retirees, people cannot pay for their old age. Therefore, what is happening right now is a pretty narrow investor base, university endowments, insurance companies, sovereign wealth funds, pension funds that underpinned our industry and yours are being complemented by ever growing elements that were completely excluding alternative so far, which is the 401k pensions, the individual investors.

26:07You think about it, we have I think it's a 190 to trillion dollars of savings that are completely excluding alternatives that are in a high net worth and individual investor base. The innovation that was underpinning Norge's bank, right, the Norwegian so - sorry, Relfan, to allow them to participate in all of this long -term investing that we do and investing in these growth companies and creating huge values is now extending itself to individual investors. I think it's 1 % of the 192 trillion investment alternatives. If that only goes to 5%, you suddenly have $10 trillion. You think about the magnitude relative to the entire institutional investing base to answer your question, while that whole universe on the left is in dire need of liquidity, there's others who are dying to provide liquidity.

27:00So there's a market, right? So what's happening is secondary as an asset class is going through the roof. They are going and buying fund stakes, providing liquidity to some LPs who need it. And also there's innovations in the industry, but I hadn't seen in my lifetime before where you have evergreen products because you think about the treadmill system that we have in our industry, which is you have to go every three to five years and present your case again to the LPs, then you have a new fund, then you have another new fund that is being replaced. I mean, I call it very much the Warren Buffett.

27:30I remember still at the time, again, I was a young Turk at KKR and our brilliant mind, Scott Nathel, who's Norma Kusy, or he came up with this idea to go public for KKR by merging with a public LP vehicle actually, which hadn't worked because the public markets were assuming that we would lose 80 % of every one of our investments. So he said to the public, if you value most ability, why don't you become the 30 % order of KKR's general partnerships of our partner economics in exchange for that pool? And that's how we ourselves became owners of a 5 billion pool that had been validated one and that became 10 and that's now 30.

28:10So we are actually the largest investor in our own things. To cut a long story short, what he saw at that time was that Warren Buffett had innovated in an incredible way where he got Geico and other insurance companies who provide the liquidity for all the investments he made, right? Because he owns these insurance companies. So all the people who write, who have insurance policy, they pay up front, the cash comes in and normally it sits in interest bearing accounts or earning nothing. and now he uses the source to buy whatever companies he buys, American Express. That is now the innovation that we see in our industry on top of this retail money.

28:45So basically, we Apollo and others have now taken under our wings insurance companies that provide all this liquidity. So you see the innovation goes beyond what some people talk about, continuation vehicles, etc. It extends to completely new areas of the market. it will KKL's Europe fund be 20 billion dollars in 10 years. I think that the answer is not the fund. If you ask me will KKL Europe's acid undermanagement double and triple over the next 10 years? The answer is yes. Because the universe for what we do is radically expanding. When I did the BMG deal, that was a 1 .5 billion deal for a 50 % stake in that music company.

29:25You fast forward 10 years and we had a 10 billion deal to buy half of AXA Springer, which again, was a 50 -50 deal with the family. You can very easily see how that could scale further. The capital itself will be doubled in triple. The source of it won't be necessarily a fund. It could be those retail funds that I mentioned or it could be some part of the insurance capital. So the funnel becomes much bigger. We are responsible for a much broader scope of capital to invest. And the demand for what we do in Europe is also growing much faster. There's more segments of the market won private equity investment.

30:01To what extent you can share, what percent of your LPs are European? Like, I'm very happy to say that. I think I've probably had 10 % of the European, 90 % of my... So I'm going to disclose one thing to you. The large majority is America. You have some pockets in Europe like Holland and Norway that are very strong. The Middle East is incredibly innovative and takes a large chunk. Do you know what you find ironic though that when we make a huge amount of money from European peeing companies that we just ship it back to a load of people in the US. First of all, I'm grateful for any capital that comes into Europe regardless of the destination because we need more capital in Europe.

30:37Mario Draghi is right, we need to invest $758 billion a year alone to catch up with on innovation AI but also to complete in other industry's defense, high tech, etc. Nonetheless, for the future, you're absolutely 100 % spot on. We got to wake up in Europe as for instance Germany has now decided to Invest 25 % of its GDP and make sure when we make these investments we build equity value You know, it's being done here in the UK with the mansion house complex We need to professionalize together our pension systems and allow more investments in our alternatives to build capital accumulation And that means in 10 20 30 years hopefully we retain a larger percentage of the value creation We we make with our turn to investment Are you fundamentally investing in a different type of company today?

31:26And what I mean by that is in past generations, there might have been a photodia, there might have been a get your guide, similar to me in that respect. And now, we have the most terrible challenges with energy, with defense, with infrastructure. You mentioned obviously your space company. I mean, we are woefully under equipped when it comes to space. Are you investing in a fundamentally different class of company given this need for Kaplan, all of these very hard new industries. Myodraga is right. We are behind in defense, for instance, but look in scarcity and hours of need, innovation kicks in.

32:00And look at what happened because of the hour of need and that innovation that we have in Europe have seen the US has done by saying 10 % of the spend of the Department of Defense needs to go actually in the innovative ecosystem and space the same, right? Space X was just the result of opening it up to the private sphere. that is coming here now. We have had a terrible tragedy in Ukraine for years now, and they're still standing, and it's because of the innovative companies like Helsing that have supported them. So, short answer to your question is, yes, innovation is the answer to these problems.

32:32I wouldn't be so negative. They are coming now, much faster than some people realize. Do you feel we're taking more risks than ever? Given the volatility that now exists in the world on a daily basis, We were talking before about some tweets and events that happen that just kind of change everything with a tweet My point being well it seemed relatively stagnant or plateaued at certain points And now it seems like it is more volatile never do you think we're taking more risks than ever? Well, you started this conversation with AI. You're right. I mean AI is a fundamental Transformation of all the assumptions that we had made around productivity around the innovation cycles you need in certain industry like healthcare defense, etc.

33:14So that alone was already massive. And then at the same time, you have this incredible pivot from the post -war consensus of how everything works. Right? After the second world war, there was an institutional ecosystem built with the IMF and the World Bank and the United Nations, and there was a clear understanding of how everything works. And people had forgotten about the the 1930 period when it was much more bilateral and it was much more nation states and it was much more everyone for itself. People also thirdly had taken for granted the unique role of the US dollar as a reserve currency. Also that is being questioned now.

33:54Redalue fourthly points out that when you have large amounts of debts accumulated, we are just one step away from a major crisis because debt bubbles at some point get resolved both by internal strife war or massive transformations in the monetary system. So we have four disruptions at the same time, technology, geopolitics, monetary sphere, and at the same time, huge demographic crisis we talked about, right? There's a feeling of unparalleled inequality between certain segments of the population and others and certain regions of the world and others. We are investing against an unbelievable backdrop of risk and volatility and uncertainty.

34:36But especially in times like this, I remind myself of what Warren Buffet says. You've got to focus on what you can control. I have a spectacular founder like Muad at Hamatan, a large market that will be transformed by technology. And if I see that there's unparalleled openness to actually institute change for the better, which I think is the case in Europe right now, then I invest. I just have to be able institutionally to be patient and to hold for longer. Is it you're not able to predict what's going to happen in three years? It's impossible. So if something goes wrong, you just have to be able to hold longer.

35:11Do you believe the US dollar would be the reserve currency of the world in 10 years? Yes. I think that it's impossible to replace reserve currencies that quickly. Will the US solar be the reserve currency in 50 years? I couldn't tell you. I do think in 10 years time, the percentage of reserves the US represents will probably have reduced slightly. The problem that the monetary system has is if you want to replace one thing, you need to decide what you replace it with. Right now, the only credible alternative is the Euro, and we in Europe, we need to get our act together. It's a fantastic opportunity for us to take larger share.

35:46You don't think it's Bitcoin? I think Bitcoin is a very interesting innovation and will take larger share, but it's too early now for us to call that, that will be the reserve currency of the world. And you know, Harry, why? Nobody talks about quantum computers anymore. Think about what that means, right? If we have quantum in terms of all the impact of that. And people will just not replace 80 % US dollars with Bitcoin overnight. I think Bitcoin will take a larger share as will the euro, but it's going to be more of a mix. We mentioned the kind of four disruptions. The hard thing with disruptions is they change the world in such unprecedented ways that they make a lot of prior assumptions really invalid.

36:22We mentioned kind of thematic thinking early. Yes, I don't like thematic thinking because I think the world is so unpredictable that COVID can happen and industries have changed overnight in ways that we can't comprehend. So what extent do you think thematic thinking and a prepared mind is actually valid in a world that changes so much so quickly? Can I put a buffer to spin on the idea of thematic thinking? 100%. I think it's very relevant. If you think about buffet, he will tell you Whatever noise there is in the world, I'm going to look at a few essential elements. I'm going to look at the founder.

36:55I'm going to look at the business itself. Is it in a large market? Has it an unassailable position in that market? Is it innovative enough to have product cycle innovation? And is it having a good return on capital? And then I'm putting incentives in for these people to just keep running faster. I love his thinking. That is a very different thing as saying I invest in energy and I invest in certain industry verticals. He has a human spin on thematics. That said, I do think thematic investing is valid. If you will now think in Europe, Draghi is right and there are certain elements where we just have to invest.

37:33And that, for instance, is space and defense. If that is part of your investing theme, then it makes sense because you can't just overnight say, hey, I was a healthcare investor and now I'm a space investor, you need to build going back to our original conversation about what makes a good venture investor need to have a deep thematic. But, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be difficult, but I've met so many space, not space, defense companies, every defense company is trying to be the best, obviously, healthy in Europe. I've met so many defense companies, I don't know how much I'm going to be fair, but none of the founders that I've met touched toast.

38:05Even if I knew nothing about defense, which I don't, to be very clear, nothing. I love nothing more than having such a massive of consensus with your toss and as a rock star. No debate. And so if I get my own even though I know nothing, I know he is the best. He is the best for sure. That's the good news about markets and innovation cycles. And Recrevis was the best by far in his industry. He set up a whole industry. People are fast to copy. People are fast to innovate. They're fast to follow. Toss and is the best. But in five years time we look back and say of course Toss and couldn't have done it all by himself.

38:37There will be there will be more at the Tamatan. There will be others. So what you said, I always say, if you want to invest in the next housing, don't just invest in housing. I spent my life with investors who are like, oh, I'm trying to find the next open AI, the next Angerial, don't just put your money in the winner. Well, you always want to back your winners. I completely agree with that. And like winners compound. Winners totally compound, but it doesn't mean that you can put your entire fund to one winner, right? This is what we discussed before. How much money would you put into a company, like Concentration of Funds.

39:08So we are absolutely rock solid, you know, disciplined on this. You don't do more than 10 % of one fund, you know, I think in terms of underwriting, the absolute maximum is 15%, but it's in that range. I love Brian Singerman at Founders Fund, who says the enemy of great venture returns is capital concentration limits. And that's why we did 33 % into Airbnb. And I just wish remember thinking, my God, that's conviction. 33 % into one single company. Yeah, that's absolutely in my industry, not the right approach. Krasnoy, we're talking about Europe. Europe has an incredibly fragmented public markets.

39:44Yes. How much of a problem is the complete life of functional public markets for Europe today? It's a beautiful question. We come back to Mario Draghi. The second thing he said after you got to invest $750 billion a year to catch up is we need a capital market union. We need to come together and do away with artificial limits between 27 nation states and the UK when it comes to concepts like securitization or going public laws. Yes, of course, we need a European SEC. Yes, of course, we need a bit more of one pan -European place where people can go public. It's extremely important. You completely agree with you.

40:22I think a unified European liquidity mechanism would be great. To what extent do you also have an EUAI Act? Blunding is incredibly prohibitive. Well, we are experimenting today in blunt speaking, which I'm happy to ask for a minute. We absolutely over -regulated that space. We need to unleash the power of that technology, technological innovation and not stifle it by too much innovation for sure. Germany has a challenge in the auto industry. Do you worry as much as I do about the rise of BYD, Xiaomi and China in bluntly destroying much of the European car market. So I'm going to answer that question indirectly by saying what I'm observing because we own fantastic investments in related industries is the de -Earth of good engineers.

41:07And what we see is when the automotive industry is shrinking because of some of the factors you you mention, those people immediately find jobs in other industries which are growing. whether that is censors, whether that is defense. Of course, we need to have a fair playing field, right, between different economic regions in the world. I always worry when certain industries do not fair, fair conditions to compete. Should we tariff the shit out of Chinese cars, and if they're subsidized by the Chinese government in terms of their creation, and they're able to flood our markets, if we're playing fair, do you not just tariff them?

41:42I just think generally I'm a free marketer. I think tariffs are not the answer. I know that's a controversial statement in today's world. You know, we need to work on the underlying issues in our Western democracies. For instance, we have two high deficits. Those deficits lead to exceedingly high indebtedness, where they are for no crisis prone to try to raise money through tariffs. It's not the right approach. What do you think is the best way to deal with the current situation we have in terms of deficits? If you think about 20, 25, 30 % of all of our budgets going to two sources, one, to just serve service the interest of the existing debt stock.

42:21It's huge. I mean, in many countries, these are higher expenditures than our healthcare or our defense budgets. Then it becomes very clear that the only way to do, to restrain that is on the expenditure aside where on the, for instance, on the pension systems and the benefit systems, we do not benefit from the capital accumulation and the wealth creation. It is mind -boggling, you know, if you and I were Norwegian, we wouldn't worry a bit about this because the Norwegians so in wealth fund, who everything they have done has created such a capital stock that every single person doesn't need to worry about their pension.

42:57I had Nikolai on the show and he said every single Norwegian is a millionaire. He is a genius and he's doing a great job by the way running. I ask him if it invested in my fund and he said, of course, our minimum check is 10 billion dollars. But imagine if we had the German, the British, the French, Norgesbank, right? That would have meant. And that's the conversation I had with Angela Merkel 10 years ago. It was absolutely possible. We slept through it, but it doesn't mean because we missed it, we couldn't do it in the future. We must do it. I think one interesting one for me is, again, I'm a student of economics in history as well.

43:30And so if you look at Japan in 1980s, that deficit was huge. Yes. And the question is like everyone's like, well, we've got to worry about the deficit, we've got to control it. Why can't we just let it go higher? I know it sounds terrible, but they kind of kick the can down the road in the 80s. To what extent can we not just do it now? You and I are going to have a hobby, economist conversation, because it's a fascinating conversation. You know, the shikens will always come home to roost. That's what I've learned in economic theory, because here's what we miss sometimes. A lot of this is very much virtual.

44:01What's the biggest coin of the real, what's the biggest currency of our business and of our economy? Bust. Those numbers don't mean anything, but if people convince themselves that spending 20 -25 % of an ongoing budget in any country, on interest for your debt is too high, and you can't pay for innovation, for healthcare, for defense, etc. At some point, there will be calls for one of two things. either increased taxation, which typically means that a lot of your value creators leave your country, or radical cuts in spending. We have seen both in Japan and the United States of America that is extremely hard for a political system that has elected every four years, who actually have the discipline of reducing these expenditures.

44:47I mean, Japan still has a structural deficit the way they have. So if you can't really raise taxation and if you can't really reduce expenditure, the only other way to do it to get rid of your interest income, if your interest load, is to inflate away your debt, right? So you do financial repression, which means you force your interest rates to be below the rate of inflation, which means in real terms everybody who has assets loses. And that is a very inflammatory way of dealing with it. We know what that meant in the 30s, right? And quite frankly, we're having a philosophical debate now. Our generation, so the people that are not retired yet, will ask the questions.

45:28The statistics, I give you it to you as an example, are that in a few years' time, every fourth person is a person in pension age, so over the age of 65. How can you sustain any balance between toiling every day and feeling that in your own retirement, you actually will have anything to live from? And then at some point, societies get an imbalance, right? I mean, look at our political systems all over the rest of the world and the election results, right? Populism rises. It goes much beyond now. What we do as a job, but there's a direct correlation between all of this. So I come back to what you and I do every day, There's a much of a purpose in it.

46:11It's not about just making returns or it's actually making pension affordable for millions and millions of people. And we need to have a political system where what we do benefits as broad a population as possible. Do you think AI will have the productivity gains that people suggest it might do? Too early to tell, I totally, well, I think it will. However, productivity gains, which will be extremely beneficiary to the world, don't mean that the challenges I just mentioned will be solved, because there will be this disruption phase where many, many people who are, weren't they beworcent, because you'll have more people who are removed from labor force, that she ends up, even people of like working age will not be working.

46:57It only works if Norgesbank, let's assume the Norges bank, which is the Norwegian Southern Rail Fund, would suddenly be the British bank. And everybody of us has a stake in those companies. So if, if, you know, we had a fund that is actually catering to the pensions of everyone, which owns 20 % of open AI, you would be celebrating that development, right? Because we find a new balance between work and leisure. And there will be different jobs, but you people don't have to, you know, trepidate the outcome of this. The problem is right now there's no such mechanism because we don't participate in the value creation.

47:37You don't think we're going to have like massive structural unemployment because of AI in the next 10 years. So, the point I'm making, if we in Norway had structural massive unemployment, we'll be fine. We'll be fine because Norges Bank has led to that structural unemployment because of the largest investor in the AI company and therefore they could redistribute dispose of it. I do think there will be a transition now where white collage jobs will be impacted. And we need to answer the question on societal level. How do we cope with that in terms of the earnings and the results from the investing to make sure they are broadly based for everyone impacted by this?

48:12You said about owning 20 % of open AI. Challenge with the extension of private markets is the wealth creation is shared between a very few number of people compared to public markets where it's obviously available to many more. your Norris Bank and countries of the world. To what extent are you worried that we're seeing the concentration of wealth to few people with the extension of private markets? Is it a brilliant question? And it's the most important question. And that's exactly why our industry, the investing industry needs to open for the many. That's why what I said earlier, the fact that we were only allowing 1 % of all the private individuals to participate in the, you know, in our industry in the alternative investing industry, that is not sustainable.

48:57If this becomes, if your dad and my dad and others have the ability to save for their own retirement and they can select 5%, 10 % of their, you know, capital pot that we have now said everybody can have for their future retirement. And they allocated to us and we invested in OpenAI, it becomes suddenly available to the menu rather than the fuel. So that's the answer. The answer is broad -based participation in the alternative industry. And that is why this is so important. Do you think we will see that broad -post participation? How does that actually look? That looks like retail -bound funds.

49:38So I think what we... I think yes, we will see it. I think if I mean I remember I was a McKinsey sometime ago, but I still have a 4 -1K plan from that I mean I wasn't there that long, but I still have whatever the number is So they're in check it I do and I allocated every year I'm just a long -term investor so there's no point in checking it every quarter But if I checked it every five years and I reallocated to the same allocation by the way I allocate I think 30 % to my industry and the rest is S &P 500 a bit of bonds But if you do that, imagine everybody was able to do that. I sleep well at night and I look again in 10 years and I see the compounding that has resulted.

50:23There's no reason why what America allows or Norway allows shouldn't be available for all of us in Europe. It's just a regulatory question and the question of courage for the political systems to say, I go from a PSU -goal pension system to one that has a private capital -accumulated, you know, Colin. Totally agree with you there. I do also think it's massively increased education standards actually on company level. I've got one brilliant advice which is like if you want your children to give a shit about companies by the one single stock, because in a minute you have any form of ownership, your interest level will go through the roof.

51:01Absolutely. You asked the person one on money. How do you think about your relationship to money? Mine's a weird one. I used to think it was everything. And then I got it and I realized it's relatively nothing. I mean, it's nice to have as a foundational layer. But it wasn't the jar of happiness that I thought it would be. Can I disclose a secret to you? Gotta go and see the new Brad Pitt movie, F1 The Movie, which I think is spectacular. If I had had to say in how we call it, one of our production companies produced it. It wouldn't be called F1, the movie, it would be called, it is not about the money.

51:40And you'll see when you see the movie, why? That's the message that I would give to people when they ask me what my relation to with money is. Was it never about the money? Or was it like me, wait, you think it is, but then it's not? I just stumbled into, so when I made the decision to leave a high -paying job at McKinsey, people thought I'm absolutely crazy because I gave up the safety net for no certainty at all. And you know how this to be a founder. You are one day, you think on paper, an exilienter, and the other day you are broke. it's the most incredible experience that because you learn very quickly from that that it's not the money that matters it's the learning when I went to KKL it was a startup that's big no mistake right it was when I joined whatever 39 people and I had no idea what it means to build to career track art in investing in funds It's important, Yachtstick, my job is to create results for all these pensioners and for what we do.

52:49But it's only an output, okay? It's not the main reason we do that. For me, at least, it's not. I mean, I enjoy every day speaking with people in completely different ways of life. You may know that I'm a crazy music fan. And you love the opera, huh? I'm crazy about trying to innovate the Biroid Festival, which is the Richard Wagner Festival in Germany. I'm also a trustee of the Royal Opera House. I do love the opera, yes. But I love all kinds of music. But it's, you know, I love it because I learned so much from these artists, right? When you see the shining eyes of the opera singer or the ballet dancer, I mean, it was so incredible to experience doing COVID when they couldn't perform.

53:33what it meant to them once the curtain could rise again. So in many ways, whether you are a Formula One driver or you are an artist or you are an investor, if you don't love what you do, then you will, you ain't be good at it. And if you're really good at what you do and you love it, there will be money that follows. Listen, I could speak to you all day. Can we do a quick fire round? So I say a short statement. Okay, so that's roll with which ambassador do you most admire? And why then? one buffet, incredible ability to just separate the noise from what really matters. What's the most painful investing lesson and what did you learn?

54:12Venture Park, I set it up, it failed and I learned to keep going to remain humble and to really, really, really think about your investors. What do you know now that you wish you'd known when you started at KKL? That is a marathon and not a sprint. I think as an investor you just have to go for the long term and sometimes what does that mean? It means when you're in the eye of the storm like COVID or like now Make do not make the mistake to think that is structural God is day through it. You got to look for the long term and When you look back now, it's also obvious, but it's never obvious. You just got to Endurance is what matters in our industry.

54:57You never give up. I say So I agree on endurance what matters. I also, when you're in the eye of the storm, like now I'm seeing so many people sacrifice trust. Yes. Bors short term financial gain. Never do it. So dangerous. Yes. Totally agree to that. Biggest lesson from working with Henry Kravitz. Errigan's kills is what he taught me. I will never forget when I was the new kid on the block in KKR and I entered for the first time in the office. And I didn't know what to do quite frankly. It was just chai. And he and his cousin came over and just said hi, you know, we are Henry and George and This is the from we built and tell us about you.

55:35I was so mortified, but so inspired by it If KK are a band what genre would it be and who's the front man? Listen, I love the opera. I love classic music. I love many things But it's an orchestra quite frankly where the tuba player the violinist the bassist all of them are more class but my job is to be the conductor and try to motivate everybody and bring them together as a team. What's one European startup you wish KK on head investors? Spotify, I was the first institutional investor through the door. I just didn't have the fun to invest. I know, but this is again, every failure you have in life is an opportunity.

56:16You know, I learned from it because of that we did get your guide, which is a fantastic success now. Is that one that you said no to like you did have the chance? Oh my god. I have to hide now under the table We literally at KKR had the chance to invest in Ali Baba a long time ago and that came on my desk and I said no big mistake That wasn't your desk for that. That was someone else's desk It was literally at that time kind of early angel kind of family KKR stuff and I was the I was the maverick in terms of having done venture investing. What do you make of all venture firms coming into your field?

56:55Now you have Andresons your light speeds your general catalyst just eating the financial stack. Do you worry they're coming into your field? I think their industry is big. Everybody has his place. I have done venture myself to know that it's an entirely different you know skill set so I'm not worried about out. Final one, KKL 10 years from now, I knew in it, what do you want to be? We said about kind of AUM, what do you want it to be in 10 years? Very important question. We have 670 billion undermanagement now. This number will go up massively, but what I want to see, I think historically, the kind of individual retail type broad based investor base is roughly 20%, maybe 30%.

57:40I want to see that to go to 50 % and just to have that spread of what we discussed before. Listen, Philip, thank you so much for joining me. As I said, I've been looking forward to this one. So many good things from your hands. So thank you so much. You're very welcome. It's great to be here. That was such a fun show to do. I want to say, you thank you to Philip for giving up the time and joining me in the studio. If you want to watch the full episode, you can find it on YouTube by searching for 20VC. That's 20VC. But before we leave you today, I love seeing the team come together to make this show happen.

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1:00:09Winner. Turn dreams into success with Shopify. Go to Shopify .com slash 20vc for your $1 per month trial today. That's Shopify .com slash 20vc. And while Shopify helps you drive sales, don't forget what really keeps those customers coming back. Trust is the ultimate currency in business and today customers expect it faster than ever. And that's why over 10 ,000 global companies trust Vanta. Vanta automates up to 90 % of the work for in -demand compliance standards like SOAP2, ISO 27001 and more, using smart AI to centralise workflows. Manage risk and get you audit ready in weeks, not months. So you can stop chasing paperwork and start closing deals.

1:00:53And in new IDC report found that Vanta customers achieved $535 ,000 per year in benefits. That's insane and the platform pays for itself in 3 months. Whether you're growing fast or just getting started, Vanta connects you with trusted auditors and experts, support to help you build trust with customers. Get a thousand dollars off your first year at Vanta .com, 4th slash 2 -0 -VC, that's Vanta .com, Ford slash 20V scene. As always I so appreciate all your support and stay tuned for an incredible episode with Rory O 'Dresskell and Jason Lankin on Thursday.