Jamie Murray: Wimbledon Eating Habits, Portion Control & Viral Strawberries And Cream Sandwiches

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2:06Hello, and welcome to the good, the bad and the healthy. This is the podcast that dives into the food and lifestyle choices of our amazing guests. And I want to show you the listeners just how easy it is to live cleanly and healthily and cut out all the rubbish and sometimes still enjoy everything we crave and love. After years of annoying colds and illnesses, I decided to take health into my own hands and start paying attention to what I put in my body and how it made me feel. So now I'm here to help you guys try and do the same. So let's talk about the good, the bad, and of course, the healthy.

2:46Today, we're joined by Jamie Murray, former world number one tennis player seven-time grand slam champion obe as well and basically all-round tennis legend i would say thanks for coming in jamie thanks for having me on you've had an incredible life story obviously you know your brother andy judy are all you're a famous tennis family and because we like to get into the real stories of health and where things come from and the psychology behind health. First thing I wanted to do to ask you today is take you back to your childhood. How was it living and growing up in Scotland, having Judy, your mum, also your tennis coach, and how did food and diet come into the equation when you were a keen athlete from a very young age?

3:39What was food like at home? Food was better at home than when we were kind of like left our own devices you know i was at dinner with friends last night i'm talking about like what used to eat as kids and like we'd go at high school we'd come out for lunch walk down the hill to tesco's you'd be buying like bag of six jam donuts or something there's like chip shop next door eating like deep fried sausage and chips you know iron brew chew bars this sort of stuff like it was it was bad but um my dad actually he taught himself to cook when he um he was playing football and he did his Achilles. So he was out for a while and he taught himself to cook.

4:18So he became a very good cook. And my gran, she cooks every day from scratch, like soup at lunch and then something in the evening for her and my grandpa. But we were always around there a lot. So we got a lot of home-cooked meals, which I think is super important. Super important. I mean, if you think about most people get a meal deal at lunch, you know compared to actually having a home-cooked soup with all the veggies and meat well it's only my gran made it because it's only way my grandpa would eat vegetables oh really chopped it up and put it in soup so your grandpa wasn't healthy yeah well i think he he's fine but he just didn't like his vegetables but he's still going strong at 93 so something worked you know yeah that's very good so dad was a bit of a chef handy in the kitchen how was judy less so she's got better over time for sure actually that yeah but when when younger was my dad that did most of the cooking yeah but i think honestly that having that foundation of like proper real cooked meals i think my gram was exactly the same right there was a proper hot meal on the table at lunch and at dinner every day and that sets a really good foundation so that if you're then running down to tesco to get your your jam donuts you kind of get away with it because you've had all your nutrients you balance and you've been playing a lot of sport.

5:38I mean, how much sport were you doing? I mean, we played all different sports growing up. I think tennis kind of took over around, let's say, 14, 15. We really started to up our time on court with that, but nothing too crazy. It wasn't like our parents were like, you know, get down the court, you've got to play tennis all day, every day or anything. But we were pretty active. We had a lot of good friends in the town, at school, at the tennis club as well. So we were always like, we were always doing stuff. Always out and about playing. I mean, I think that's so important for kids. Well, so the thing is, it's so different now because like when we grew up, you know, there's no mobile phones, iPads.

6:20You know, they had TV, but it wasn't the same. But now like it's hard to get kids away from the phones and iPads once they're started. And of course, everyone just becomes more like sedentary. Yeah, I mean, that's the biggest problem, I think, in health that we don't talk about. is everyone's fundamentally sedentary and we have to go out of our way to be active and move our bodies when in the past... We could have done this podcast on the move, couldn't we? We probably should have. Yeah, yeah, a walking podcast would have been much better. But I mean, hey, we're here now. So give us a bit of an insight into like a Scottish family tradition.

6:55Was there a specific meal? I mean, I've got to ask about haggis. You've already mentioned iron brew. Like, come on, did you do anything proper Scottish? I mean, for me, like my dad does like a good Kranachan. Kranachan? I don't even know what that is. Sort of like a trifle type thing, yeah. But my gran, like I said, she makes soup every day. She does like Greek shepherd's pies. She does a good fish. Yeah, we weren't like, I wouldn't say we were like super traditional, you know. Haggis, Neeps and Tatties, five nights a week or anything like that, you know. Tossing cabers at the weekend. But there was Ironbrew, you said.

7:31Ironbrew, yeah, yeah. my brother loved iron brew chew bars yeah chew bars i was more chocolate that was my like massive weakness yeah fair play and still is you've got to have your nostalgic childhood favorites right like so i i was born in amsterdam and so whenever i go back to holland licorice is my thing okay that's a big thing there that's the dutch thing the dutch sweet is licorice and some people love it some people hate it but like when i go back i will gorge a bag of dutch licorice but any sweets for us was like back from walking back from school get into the news agents fill up a bag and off you go yeah off you go don't really do that anymore though too expensive inflation they're probably about a pound a suite these days um but yeah no that sounds great and so you said you know you were quite open to playing all sports you know until you're about 14 but already at the age of 10 weren't you number three in the uk for tennis um i mean i was definitely i was definitely one of the best in the country growing up probably the best until like 13 and i was doing well in like european tournaments so we'd get selected by the lta to go to you know represent gb yeah in terms a lot of tournaments are in france at that at that age um so we were like getting selected to do that and you know you can i mean i remember now it's one reason i don't really eat much pasta is because we had so much like terrible pasta like overcooked like so you know soft and just yeah exactly just rank stuff at these tournaments you know um and it's you know that's another thing about being able to play tent and travel and you learn to like adapt all these new environments and different foods you know the milk tastes different bread tastes different all that stuff and like as a you know 10 year old 12 year whatever like it's it's not easy that like you expect everything to taste the same but you know you don't understand that things are made differently or you know in all these different countries and cities that you go into and was that part of the like conversation as like a young athlete around nutrition or was it just like you need carbs there's your pasta get your energy well you're a bit like at the mercy of what the tournaments provide right so you know very basic stuff like overcooked dry chicken soggy pasta white rice probably you know haricot ver or whatever green beans like they you know sort of very standard French stuff.

9:55I mean, fundamental real food, right? The French are usually pretty good at food. Yeah, they definitely say they are, yeah. I don't, like, tend to always agree with it, yeah, but they definitely talk themselves. What's your gripe with French food? I don't know. Every time I go to Paris, I always find it difficult to, like, find good places to go and eat. It's weird, yeah. What, just you get stung by the tourist trap selling you an expensive, overrated croissant? I don't know. I just, it's not like in London. Like, there's so many great places that I can go on Google Maps and find that and go to.

10:24But in Paris, I just, I don't feel that like at all. And I've been going for like 20 years and every year I just find it like a battle to go and... Really? Yeah, because the calendar never changes really. So you're always going back to the same places. So you kind of have your spots and stuff that you like going to. But Paris, I just, I never, never got to grips with it at all, yeah. Never got to grips with the escargot? No, no. Did you try them? No, I'm not going for the snails. You haven't tried snails? I'm going for the entrecourt. I get stuck into that, yeah. Steak-free or whatever. Okay, fair enough.

10:58Well, the French are probably a little bit unhappy now. Potentially, yeah. You know, they love their food, and I think they can be good at it in certain instances. I'm sure they are. We need to get some people in the comments recommending some French places for you to go in Paris, because I'm sure there's good French places in Paris. Always end up with, like, brasseries and stuff, which is fine, you know, it's fine. Yeah, straightforward stuff. Yeah, yeah, I got you. Okay, so any sort of like naughty, healthy favourite snacks as a kid? Like what was in your tennis bag that you'd take wherever you went?

11:30As a kid? I don't know. Tough to... Tough to think of that. I mean, when we started, there was no, you know, like, I don't know, cereal bars. I remember the first, like my mum used to always buy us like brunch bars when they started coming out, which were good, but they probably got a decent whack of sugar in them. It's really fine if we're running around playing tennis and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, nowadays, there's so many companies like Duno's, cereal bars, energy bars. For me, it's overwhelming trying to choose what's actually the best one for me that's kind of healthy at the same time. Yeah.

12:08I mean, it's definitely in the 90s, right? There wasn't that much food choice and there weren't that many products. But I guess now there is an overwhelming influx of choice. A lot of it filled with sugar, but some better ones out there. but fundamentally i mean i think if you're eating something like a cereal bar and going to play tennis for a couple of hours or whatever it may be you're probably going to be all right because you'll just burn off that sugar right it's most you promise right i promise but you know most likely the issue comes from when people are like having a cereal bar and sitting at their desk for eight hours in a day yeah right that's where you've got that disconnect between the resource and fuel you're putting in your body and what people are actually doing with it yeah okay that's a bit of the challenge i mean people ask me like you know what what do you eat do you really like pay attention to your diet and stuff like and honestly like i don't i'm not like counting calories i'm not good at knowing sugar content of certain foods and stuff but i'm not like eating a burger and chips before i go to play a match but i'm not yeah thinking twice about having a burger and chips in the evening because then at the end of the day in my head i'm like well i'm gonna run around tomorrow somewhere hot it's quite humid like you know i'm gonna be working so it's okay but my issue will be when I finish playing tennis and having to control my portions because just now I can go to town.

13:25You can eat whatever you want. Yeah, but when I stop, and I'm going to be 40 next year, yeah, I have to make some adjustments. I have to make some adjustments. I mean, it's very important, but at the same, you'll figure it out. I think you've probably already got a level of intuition because you're an athlete between what you put in and the output you get. I would imagine you would naturally... You're exposed to more of that information, right? For sure. And, you know, if you're just eating meat and vegetables, you're good. Like I wouldn't even worry about portion control because your body has natural satiety mechanisms that will say I'm full and you'll eat within your boundaries pretty much because that's actually the intuitive way of eating that we all kind of lost.

14:04And then the food industry kind of shortcutted it by making stuff ultra-processed so where it's like highly caloric like a bag of crisps but really low society. So you can smash a whole big share bag of crisps and still be starving, yet you might have just smashed 1 ,000 calories, right? So that's where, again, some of the ultra-processed food has kind of created a disconnect between our normal satiety signals and mechanisms to self-regulate. Okay. I mean, I got back into my McCoy salt vinegars recently. You did? I didn't have crisps for so many years. And then I, I don't know, I saw it one day and I was just craving.

14:42And I just, yeah. Just went for it. six bags and like not in not in a day not in a day but i put them in in my in my home and was like yeah they got they got taken apart yeah do you buy them regularly now no i haven't gone back to the well since i finished them but okay that's that's the key for me it's like i'm the same right i'm just a human if it's in the cupboard i will destroy yeah yeah it's gone there's no way it's lasting more than a few days in the house but i just don't buy it yeah so like i just refuse that's the discipline though right that's the discipline because also if you're you know you know it's like you go to supermarket you choose your stuff you're waiting in line to to pay and there's all these little little treats just they're like screaming at you like how you doing how you doing how you doing and you're like okay if i can take it you know you need to get a fast moving queue or like trying to avoid the queue at all costs because yes that does happen and you're like oh i'd fancy a bit that but one thing is i think i don't know the numbers at all so i'm going to bastardize it but there have been studies done on how much food you put in your trolley when you shop hungry versus full and so you know that ingrained biological mechanism of i'm hungry i need nutrients will mean you put a lot more in your trolley and then are more likely to pick up snacks and ultra processed junk when you're in the supermarket so a key would be to say go full eat your meal then go to the supermarket and you'll probably do a better job of resisting those temptations along the way but so let's take it forward a little bit so obviously you were on tour from a young age and doing the circuit but when you were sort of early 20s you kind of adults tennis into the main tour traveling the world what happened then with your food were you a bit left to your own devices more did you have to learn how to cook or was it just what the tour provided well I mean still at the tournaments is you know you're at the mercy of what they're putting out there which is is loads better than when what it used to be like when I started 2007 I remember going to the states in the summer to play tournaments and you know they're they're putting their in the player restaurant like they're giving you like subway sandwiches papa john's pizzas uh you know crispy cream donuts or dunkin donuts or whatever wow and you're like yeah i don't really want to eat that like i'm you know i'm aware enough to know that like that's not really great athletes food but you know that's what they would that's like quiznos sandwiches or whatever and it's like bloody hell and i was obviously very green whatever but there's you know they're also serving this like andre agassi who's like on his farewell tour you know roger federer playing and like since I'm less like wow like these guys like some of the best athletes in the world like this is what you're providing for them like that's just but surely they weren't eating it were you eating it what did you do well you would you would you would eat it because that's what was there I mean okay sometimes like you might have time to leave the courts to go find somewhere else but yeah it's not like I had a car you know the tournaments will would drive you to the hotel and back but that's and then you were kind of stuck in the hotel yeah it wasn't like uber there i mean it was obviously taxis but yeah yeah so you'd have to have gone out your way yeah yeah so you just kind of yeah you're just kind of taking that on the chin but nowadays i mean you know you're getting pasta gluten-free pasta they got all that seeds nuts great all that stuff now yeah it's way better now than what it used to be but yeah before like it was it was interesting well it's crazy to think that like top of the world athletes are eating Krispy Kreme and Papa John's pizza that's just, it's not going to make you perform on court.

18:27That's the thing and I'm like, you know, you've got the best athletes in the world you want them to be performing their best because it's better for your tournament that these guys are playing well and they're going deep in the tournaments, like you need to provide them with appropriate food, like you don't put diesel in a Ferrari for example, like it's like that isn't it? It's the analogy I always use about fuel in a car, you've got to put the good fuel but have you ever played a competitive match eating a papa john's no i haven't no i see you didn't do it oh but maybe like post-match like it's you know you're hungry like that's all that's that's all that's there yeah yeah i mean yeah it won't help your recovery in the same way but i guess you feel that less i just can't imagine eating a big papa john's and then yeah and running around yeah um okay cool but then i want to get into like most people leave home and that's their kind of moment like oh my god i need to learn to cook but for you a lot of it's provided like have you learned to cook did you learn to cook at some stage in your i could do you i could do you a very good steak i'm proud of that but some people say that's not really cooking because it's pretty easy but you know there's there's definitely you know there's definitely preparation that goes into you know post cooking is important yeah but you gotta you know you can't just bung it straight on the stove or whatever you know you gotta let that get to room temperature you You've got to warm up the muscles.

19:46Dab it down, get some of the stuff away. Come on, talk us through how you prepare. A bit of salt right before it goes on the stove, in the pan or whatever. I mean, I go with butter, but just because I prefer that. It tastes great. Yeah, exactly. Why wouldn't you? I prefer it like medium rare, so I'm cooking it like two, two and a half minutes each side. I let it settle for five, seven minutes. Good. I think you've got all the main points. you've got all the main points in there of how you cook a steak that's brilliant it's tough to i feel like it's tough to go wrong with it if you what's your favorite cut then ribeye it's a ribeye classic good fatty some good healthy fats in there what about what goes with the steak see this is where i let myself down i'm not good at prepping the sides you know so if even you know i don't know if you want certain vegetables or potatoes stuff like that's that's an issue for me yeah That's where I fall down.

20:41What do you do? I've got an air fryer now, but it's not the same. It's not the same cooking. Are you potatoes, french fries, veggies? No, I'd slice up potatoes, maybe put them in the oven or sometimes air fryer depending on time. I mean, I get some vegetables, but it's not my forte. My coach who travels a lot with me, he stays with me. Sometimes when he's down, he's very good at all that stuff. So I'm going to leave that to him. You let him cook. It's tough to have someone stay with you and then make them cook for you, though, isn't it? Well, I mean, if you can't prepare the veggies, you need them to cook for you.

21:14Because you probably need some veggies on that. You do need some vegetables, yeah. You do need some veggies. But, you know, if you're making potatoes in the oven at home, like, that's not unhealthy, right? You're going to need those carbs. So that's fine. The steak's fine. And then probably some greens, maybe. Added would be good. But, you know. Okay, interesting. Interesting. So let's get a bit further forward now into where you are now today. Obviously, you're still a top tennis player, crushing it, playing major tournaments across the world. What do you do before a tennis match? What's your regime to sort of fuel you?

21:48So, I mean, for us, like a lot of times it depends what time of day you're playing, right? Yeah. Because let's say like I'm playing first match at 11 o 'clock. it's very different to if I'm playing at three o 'clock and I can have like a proper lunch and stuff um if I'm playing like in the morning like I'm definitely I'm going big the night before on the food yeah and then in the morning like I would have a decent size breakfast I wouldn't go like massive because I just I don't have time to like digest it all and whatever so what does I'm going A bit of Greek yogurt, cereal, fruit, a bit of honey on top of that.

22:27That sounds like three breakfasts. You are? That sounds like three breakfasts. Greek yogurt, fruit and cereal. Yeah, but like all in the one. Yeah, yeah, all in the one, yeah. I'm going for that. If I've got time, like if I'm at home, I'd maybe make scrambled eggs. Nice. Very good. But yeah, again, like lunch, if I'm at the courts, then it's depending on what they're bringing. But I don't really like to, like, I guess doubles now, there's not a whole lot of endurance to it now with the scoring system so it's not so important for me to like massively like carb load yeah um and also i kind of would rather feel like light so if i get like a fish and some vegetables stuff that's probably good for me maybe a few potatoes if it's around but yeah so the night before meal is just anything or it's specific like a bit of no i'm not like yeah if i wanted to go eat burger and chips i would i would do it i wouldn't worry about it okay because also i did like a sweat test last year in uh washington in the summer and i'd like quite a high sweat content or salt ratio in my sweat whatever a lot of salt in your sweat yeah but anyway i the lady that she was telling me she's like you know do a food diet for the day so i can kind of see what you're doing anyway i'd had shake shack the night before But she was like, oh, that's really good because it'll hold a lot of salt in your system.

23:49So I was like, okay, fair game then. Fair game. Okay, fair enough. 75 % of women who seek menopause care don't receive it. The lying awake at 3am wondering what's happening to your body ends now. MIDI is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause with clinicians who specialize in women's health. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. Midlife needs MIDI. Visit JoinMIDI.com to book your first visit today. That's JoinMIDI.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years.

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24:58So what about now? You're obviously a family man. Yeah. Got a little girl and a wife. Yeah, yeah. Do you go home, cook meals for them? What's the home family meal? my wife's done pretty much all the cooking she's like very good cook and i like when we first started together i yeah i produced like some lamb cutlets or something that was just atrocious and she's like yeah i gotta take over here she's like i've got this don't worry yeah but like i couldn't cook something without like following a recipe or you know if it says like you know two minutes on it's going to be two minutes but she cooks like with feel and stuff which is is a few levels above what i can i can provide see i have a theory which is the reason why a lot of people don't cook is because they don't really understand it so then following a recipe when you follow a recipe it sucks right because you have to follow all the specific things half the time you don't have the right ingredients and it's really complicated and you have to constantly keep checking back reading it and then you're like oh I don't know if I've got it right but I when I went traveling as a as a kid before university I went and learned to cook in Thailand and did like a cooking course for a week and then in Africa the same and learned the fundamentals of like how you combine flavors so now my cooking process is like a real pleasurable moment in my day that kind of de-stresses me after work where I'll just go to the fridge see whatever I've got try and throw it all together and put it together and see what happens because that way I know I've always got the ingredients I can make it fun and see what I can create you can kind of tell you learn what goes together and what doesn't but then at the same time you know I'm not following a recipe because if I have to follow a recipe I'm like no I can't be bothered it feels like work yeah the thing is like I have zero knowledge banked or anything so another reason why I don't cook often is because I would come home I'm like oh like it's great to cook but actually I don't have the ability to look in my cupboards and piece like things together and say okay that would look good that'll pair well with that like I could conjure up this so it's like okay I need to go look in a recipe decide well then I need to go to the supermarket buy it come back I'm like I could just order I could just order delivery but I get it right like that is then all of a sudden like a whole process it might take you an hour to cook the recipe but you've got to go to the shop that takes you another hour and then it becomes this whole thing that doesn't need to be but can your wife not maybe teach you like i think yeah she she has she has i've just been like lazy you know lazy yeah you're not a lost cause yet jamie you need to learn feels that way yeah anyone can cook it's really not that hard you just have to try yeah and like you start to figure it out the more you put things together and really it's only like the blend of you know sweet sour acid and salt that kind of you know you have to work out how those things go together and what pairs well and if you've got those baselines you can make anything it's really not you know that hard right so you believe in me so i believe in you jane i think i mean listen if you can be a world number one obe i think you can learn to cook at home okay okay surely i hope so yeah i hope so and then for me when i finish playing and i'm not traveling all the time like training and stuff like i i genuinely want to get into that and like nail it because when i want it when i'm when i go on the ground hopefully in like 40 50 years time i want to know that i've like achieved i was capable of you know producing a decent meal yeah listen i have no doubt you can do that i think anyone genuinely can it's just we tell ourselves these stories that we can't and then we don't try and then it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy whereas if we just go do you know what i need to learn to cook no judgment like let's just figure it out yeah it's like a rite of passage for life isn't it like just being able to well this is it i mean i think for most people in the uk like a lot of people go to uni and then you have to learn to cook because you're a student yeah you got no money so then the cheapest way to do it is just buy raw ingredients and cook yourself and you're you're on your own so you have to figure out obviously you had a bit of a different upbringing being straight on tours where meals were being provided so it kind of makes sense why you haven't because you were traveling all the time and whatever but i think um there's maybe a little next step project for you when you got a bit more time yeah i think so it's i think it's huge if everyone would learn to cook then we just wouldn't buy all the soldier process stuff and we wouldn't be going to takeaways which believe it or not takeaways are like one of the worst for dumping you think you're just getting a chef cooked meal but often you're getting all sorts of stuff dumped into it flavor enhancers additives like they literally put everything in to kind of make it optimally look and feel and taste and texture you know one of the worst offenders of things wasabi will have like 14 e numbers in a bit of sushi and you're like i thought i was just getting rice and seaweed and fish like what happened but they put it all in to keep the color and all that i mean those the wasabis that come in like the box it can't be healthy looking at that the color of it I mean, like the gripe that I have is like, I love pickled ginger.

30:17I think it's phenomenal on sushi, right? But even in the pickled ginger that comes in, we'll have like acosulfone, and artificial sweeteners in it to give it a more sweet pop of a flavor. And I'm just like, do you really have to do that with the ginger? Like, come on, ginger's amazing. So that frustrates me. But, you know, that's why cooking yourself and just buying meat and vegetables is the way to kind of live healthy because it's just you control what's going in your body a bit more. So we've got into what you're doing now. Now we get to the part of the podcast where we need to delve into the good, the bad and the healthy.

30:54So I want to know your kind of good stuff, what you're doing, but also the not so good and find out your real stories. So if we start with the good, the easy part, what's one thing you're proud of in your diet? I don't know if I'm proud, but there's a very high red meat consumption. That's good. I mean, honestly, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the science that shows we should limit red meat consumption. A lot of the studies that were done on red meat were red meat as a food group. and then you know that was measured through self-reported questionnaires in these studies of what were you consuming now they classed a pepperoni pizza as red meat they classed burger and chips as red meat so they there's a i believe there's a big difference between you know a pepperoni pizza or burgers and french fries from mcdonald's to you eating a ribeye steak yeah Like they're two different worlds apart.

31:58And the science typically hasn't made those segregations because of the way studies happen. So, you know, there's the whole carnival movement online, which I think that's a bit extreme. But at the same time, I do believe red meat is a health food if you're just eating steak fundamentally. So you're good on that. Okay. That's my good then. Relax. And I'm not eating pepperoni pieces. Good. Yeah, they're not so good. Processed meats, not so good. They've got nitrates added in and all sorts of stuff. Okay. Red meat is good. All right, so we're good on red meat. And then what about, like, a sweet tree, something that's a bit rubbish, something that you know is a bit naughty but you just love it?

32:37Just chocolate. Love it. Yeah. Yeah, just anything in any form is good for me, yeah. Any chocolate. What's your go-to? As long as I'm not in America because that's disastrous chocolate. Hershey's and stuff, that's, like, the absolute. I don't know the exact percentages. which is i mean it is the pits because like chocolate in the eu has to have a minimum 25 percent cacao in it okay in the us i think it has to have like nine or something i don't know the exact number but like hershey's almost has no cacao in it it is it is junk it's all sugar awful yeah it's awful i mean yeah i mean for me like if there's dairy milk option like that's getting that's gonna go to yeah yeah but again it's like if i'm if i've got it it's amazing how many times like i'm home in the evening i've had dinner like i'm obviously i've got stuff myself i'm full and then it's just like you got that craving of like i need something sweet i need something sweet which is not great news that but then of course requires discipline to like not go raid your cupboards for chocolate or sugar or whatever like i'm not how much milk are you eating i mean i've got two currently i've got two like i don't know what you call them like the big slabs of them basically sitting there they haven't been opened yet so relatively proud of that but that that will happen yeah and how long will they last i've eaten like i mean i've sat down and eaten like a full terry's chocolate orange like numerous times in my life yeah yeah i mean it's just wrong isn't it it's wrong yeah on many levels but i mean it's like sitting right here i mean you know chocolate cacao in itself is a superfood full of polyphenols but the problem with most mainstream chocolate is it's milk chocolate so it's got only 25 percent in and then the rest is sugar and if you're a fan of dairy milk you'd be surprised to know that dairy milk isn't actually allowed to be called milk chocolate okay if you look at the packaging they do not say milk dairy milk chocolate they just say dairy milk and that's because they have 20 percent cacao in whilst all other chocolates have 25 so the ones that have 25 are within EU regulations of calling it milk chocolate okay Cadbury's created their own it's called family chocolate which allowed them to lower that percentage because cacao is the most expensive part of chocolate I need to move move away from that if you moved away from Cadbury's you'd be getting more of the good stuff and less sugar but obviously I'm a big proponent of dark chocolate you don't do dark yeah do you know what I never really like to like because because when I was ground it's like bourneville that's all you could get yeah that's fine it's not quite it's changed now though i mean there's so many options in the supermarkets and stuff but yeah and i tell myself as well like i know i know that it's better for me but i still you just head down this dairy milk avenue you just love the dairy milk you can't get away for it well i mean you you get away with it probably because of how much sport you do i mean how much tennis you doing a week i guess so i mean i'm training like most days whether it's tennis or gym or something um but yeah but still i mean like it's not my sugar content will be high plus also you know in in the drinks i'm having like the electrolytes there's a lot of sugar in that which is are you drinking lucozade no no but i forget like um i can say the company or yeah i'm not like i use like precision products right then and i eat vello 40 bars which is a few ingredients but they're they're very good i like them a lot heavy on the sugar probably i mean it's yeah i don't think i don't think fellow 40 necessarily is but i mean if you're eating if you're drinking like electrolyte drinks and stuff it's all sugar in that to you know to give you energy and whatever so yeah yeah yeah it's also not great for the teeth either like i was kind of concerns me that i mean it is a problem for teeth but i mean i think the ratios also are important around how to like optimally hydrate because if you're an athlete a level of glucose does improve the hydration of a hydration drink it speeds up that kind of hydration process but typically what you'll find is some of those like sports drinks will have a tiny bit of sodium no magnesium or potassium or calcium or any of the other electrolytes and then a ton of sugar yeah so you get that kind of energy boost and kick from all the sugar but actually we should probably be having a bit less sugar we don't need that much and then we should be having way more electrolytes okay that's the way i would look at it so you've got to check your levels yeah okay how much actually electrolytes are in there because often they'll say like oh it's an electrolyte and then you look at it and it's like 80 milligrams of sodium and it's not going to do anything for you yeah okay so you should check that that's the thing like does your coach not look at that stuff they wouldn't know anything about that stuff really yeah i mean most of the time through my career i've just entrusted like the nutritionist at the lta for example to provide the right products for for me or the other players if he's like recommending this stuff like i'd go buy it whether that's vitamins or electrolytes or or whatever but i wouldn't again i should do because it's my job to know that and obviously it massively impacts my performance but again like you give me all that information i don't know what those ratios should be what exactly i should be looking at in terms of like values or quantities or whatever which is that's that's on me like that's that's silly i get that you know someone from the you know general public doesn't need to know that stuff but for me like it's kind of a job yeah exactly yeah yeah but anyway look it's fine send it to me send me a picture of your your electrolytes i'll be curious what's in it and i'll happily recommend from what i know they might be good i don't actually know i haven't looked at it yet right i'm always i hope it's good I'm always open-minded.

38:31I've been making it for about a year now. All right. Okay, so chocolate is your one weakness. What about one of the healthiest, best, good things, swaps that you've implemented in the last couple of years that you're like, yeah, this is it. This has got me dialed in. Do you know what? I don't know if anything is super healthy, but just from like watching your reels and stuff from the last probably couple of years, like now I eat like Jason's sourdough bread, for example, right? Because bread should only have four ingredients, right? Ah, you've been watching. And then butter, so like no Lurpak now, Kerry's Gold, butter.

39:18Perfect.

39:21Plenish almond milk or oat milk or whatever. instead of um oatly very good so like we've made like some adjustments yeah um which i think is like for me like that's why i really appreciated what you what you do because you're actually out there in the supermarket that everyone in the country is going to and saying look like you know this is popular but actually this is naff and you could get this which is actually sitting right next to it which is way better for you you know go buy it and do yourself a favor so for me it's just like you know I've made little adjustments for my you know my daily life like stuff that I'm doing eating regularly that you know over time that's going to be of benefit to you know to me and my family and 100 % I mean that's the key I think getting the staples right and then doing that consistently over time is where you really move the needle long term like it doesn't always have to be a new regime a new diet plan a new like program that people get obsessed with or you know have this whole you know new concept whether it be intimate and fasting or atkins or whatever right keto you know and people struggle to keep up with it right yeah dieting just time and time again fails for so many psychological reasons that you know it might have short-term impact and benefit but then people don't ever sustain it for that long and it's just those basic choices in the supermarket that's all it is make those choices better you'll be healthier no more bagels either you ditch the bagels sesame seed bagels that was a tough one for me i know i was like oh really there is there are some healthy bagel brands out there now uh that make sourdough bagels in fact but you have to get them online okay um so you can't get them in the supermarket yet but like raw milk you're recommending that like from the get me into trouble now yeah i mean look raw milk there's a obviously a big debate around whether it's dangerous versus healthy you know i'd err on this for for most people a you can't get it right yeah because you'd have to go to your local farm to buy it and it's actually illegal to sell in the supermarket um but b will it make a material difference to your health over the long term i i don't necessarily think it's going to be the game changer for most people have i drank raw milk when i lived in the u.s for a bit i had a local farmer's market that sold raw milk and i went and bought it because i do think you know the more natural it is the better it is and there's nothing inherently in raw milk that's bad for us it actually has a lot more enzymes and good bacteria that then help us digest the milk even better but at the same time there is that obviously risk around if you don't heat the milk there's a chance that there could be bad bacteria in there as well right and a lot of that fear came from you know when we were doing it in the 1930s 40s 50s when like farming standards cleanliness you know just weren't there so we kind of needed to heat the milk whereas I'm not sure that's the case anymore um but yeah I mean that's up to everyone to decide what they want to do the other one that cracks me up is like now a lot of products will say you know probiotic we we're we've got probiotics in it forever but i would like never actively buy something that's promoting that because i'm kind of aware that like there might not be like any like good probiotics in there at all just in how it's prepared or produced or yeah it's a bit of a wild wild west really like the way i look at probiotics is the best thing you can do is go for natural fermented foods um so like kimchi sauerkraut uh kefir stuff like that naturally fermented gonna have live cultures in it good bacteria if it's kimchi sauerkraut you're also getting the prebiotic fiber which is really good so that then feeds the good gut bacteria in your thing so natural food stuff's a good probiotics as you know a label that a lot of people slap onto you can now get it in soda or like fizzy drinks where they just add a bit of bacteria into it and then go here's a gut health and i'm like don't really think that's gut health because often they're like low quality strains or not diverse strains and then you know it's actually a sugary soda drink so like you know the sugar is probably offsetting the good bacteria um but then there are acute instances if you're a kid if you've had antibiotics where you might need probiotics and then probiotics can be very helpful and there's a lot more studied strains out there so it's a it's a nuanced conversation okay i got one quite fruit juice right i never drink fruit juice because i just i always think like it's so bad for you because i read stuff like it you know just it goes through like the main intestine into the other intestine and it's just like it's bad news i mean it's just pure sugar yeah essentially so like if you're having a fresh glass of orange juice before you're going to play three hours of tennis go ahead like i don't think it's going to be a big problem but again it's most people will have it at breakfast and then go sit at their desk every day and that's where the disconnect between energy input and output is is a bit of the problem so basically what you're saying is people should exercise more because then they can eat a bit of rubbish and get away with it right no no no no not at all because like i do believe you can't outrun a bad diet if we all fundamentally eat shit like if you're because you to that argument you could say we'll just eat papa john's every time before your game and you'll be fine because you're getting all the calories right yeah of course you know there's this whole world of micronutrients which are very important polyphenols antioxidants fiber like all these other things are fundamental have functions in our body like magnesium as an example is required for every organ in your body every organ doesn't survive without magnesium so you need to be taking your getting it in your diet green leafy vegetables and things like that you know with your steak might help you get more magnesium or taking a supplement and then your bodily will your body will function better um so don't believe in the like just eat whatever you want and then you know you're fine but that energy output thing input output is a big factor right it should be part of the conversation and as always it's way more nuanced than just like one or the other right so it's quite detailed but now we're going to get to the my favorite part of the show where usually we ask our guests bring in a shopping receipt and go through what you've been shopping but given you don't cook and you don't shop much i went to waitress the other day oh you did all good but we're not going to do that we've got a special surprise for you okay special surprise given it's Wimbledon at the moment it's really the famous classic strawberries and cream right 28 tons of strawberries get sold at Wimbledon every year okay do you love them do you eat them I eat them yeah this year I haven't you haven't yeah they haven't been like the player restaurant well I mean they have them in the player restaurant but this year I haven't I thought that would be like a nostalgic moment every year to turn up and eat your strawberries and cream.

46:43Do you know why I tend to not eat it? It's because they are basically the last point of the sort of restaurant before you go to pay. So by the time I get it, like if I've got like my meal, I'm carrying like my tray and my food and everything and it's not a case of like just pick it up, like you've got to pick up, you've got to pour the cream, all that stuff while I'm holding it and I'm just like I can't even bother. And you have to pay for your own strawberries? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to pay, yeah. Oh, you're joking. Yeah. I mean, this year it's like£2.70. I think it's£2.70 they said. It's the first time it's gone up in like forever.

47:14But I don't know how much they charge in the player restaurant, though. Maybe they charge more. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. What was it before? I think it was£2.50. And this year it's£2.70, yeah. Inflation's got the damn strawberries. Sad. Yeah. Even affecting Wimbledon. Well, I mean, fair play to Wimbledon. It's like the one snack that's associated with a sports event around the world that's actually real food, right? It's strawberries and cream. I don't think there's anything inherently unhealthy about that at all. So, you know, most people are going to the football and having a pint of beer and a pie.

47:47Pop-roll. Pop-roll. In comparison to that, like, it's amazing what they're doing with strawberries and cream. So amazing. All from Kent, right? I think they're local and they're specific. varieties for Wimbledon only apparently so yeah, big deal and I think it just came about in like the 19th century when that's what was in season at the time so it made sense to have a good snack because it was before refrigeration I mean Britain does the best strawberries in the world not even like close hands down strawberries in summer if you get them fresh do you ever go pick your own with your kid? we did that when we were when we were young growing up yeah they had like um i don't know what you call them strawberry fields or something quite quite near my grandparents take us there and fill them up do it with ava yeah it's so cute i did it with my son like a few weeks ago and it's amazing they just love it they're fascinated by it seeing that whole process it's amazing and they taste so much better but we've got some special strawberries and cream for you okay today but this is the m &s the brand new m &s strawberries and cream sandwich i hadn't heard they were doing it until maybe like two or three days ago yeah have you tried it i haven't tried it i haven't i haven't even seen it i hadn't even seen it so now do you want to try it with me that pleasure yeah of course we need to do a review we need to find out what's going down with the m &s strawberries and cream sandwich because it you know they've made a big claim launching this at the same time as Wimbledon.

49:22It's got to live up to the Wimbledon strawberries and cream.