Tim ‘Bio Hacker’ Gray - Part 2: The Sleep Routine That Makes You Live Longer

0:00Welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, a brand new show with me Richard Coles. And me, Emily Andrews. Every week we'll be going beyond the headlines, lifting the lid, and what life is really like behind the palace walls. Hello, sir. Good morning. I'm the Sun's new royal correspondent. Oh, he said, look at me up and down. Things are looking up. We'll be diving into the moments everyone's talking about. What does the world owe you if all of a sudden you've handed back your crown? Meghan and Harry can't keep hold of their staff. We'll reveal the secrets of an organisation usually shrouded in mystery and explore defining moments of royal history to see how the past still shapes the monarchy today.

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1:02Reverse your biological age, optimize every single aspect of your life, live longer, live happier and at your peak. But the truth is, biohacking is a very trendy, online, saturated term with expensive gadgets, questionable claims. So how do we really know what's going on and what the truth is and can we live to 100? so today on the unprocessed truth we're joined by the uk's leading biohacker tim gray who's going to get into all the truth the myths and the reality of what you should be biohacking for your health okay we've talked a lot about diet so let's get on to your number one for health sleep right it's number one i always say it's the biggest thing you can do it's just get a good night's sleep and you will feel better you will have more energy but how do you really hack your sleep i don't hack it i set my life optimize it yeah um from the moment i wake up through to the moment i go to bed it's optimizing for my sleep and i'll give an example okay i wake up i draw the curtains i get natural sunlight i don't touch the phone i don't let fake light go into my eyes now obviously sunlight up regulates all of our many of our neurotransmitters including serotonin also resets our circadian rhythm so pretty much every organ in our body and i've discussed with dr sandra and panda on the podcast about this pretty much every organ on the body knows the time of day and that comes from light exposure you want all of your organs to be knowing the time zone it's in and all be operating in the same like like a synchronized swimming you know you don't want them to all be all over the place blue light from our phone for instance it confuses the body so in the morning it's not so bad just like blue lighting tells our body it's time to wake up the animals that didn't wake up when sunrise came up were probably eaten like ancestrally okay so that was something in humans that pretty much got weeded out of existence because they didn't wake up they got eaten they didn't reproduce so therefore sleeping at night is prevalent yeah with very few exceptions on the planet so first of all is wake up with natural light so reset your circadian rhythm support your detoxification so drinking water with minerals in it and that supports your energy production don't have coffee not yet because the moment you have coffee you're actually spiking your cortisol fake like you're actually boosting cortisol from having something and you're actually not producing your own to wake you up in the morning you need to rely on your own source before you have coffee so you should wait at least 60 to 90 minutes ideally that's not a reality for most people because they want to get on it yeah water first and then i take my my fasting supplements um and then i have my bulletproof coffee or a variant of these days um about an hour and a half later though so if i'm just talking about sleep i will then not have any coffee past midday 12 30 at latest just based on the half life of coffee so if you have a coffee at three o 'clock for instance it's still around 25 strength by the time you go to bed at 10 o 'clock at night yeah so therefore why would you have a shot a quarter of a shot of coffee before you go to bed that's just madness but what people say that i I don't feel it.

4:38So it doesn't affect me. It doesn't matter if you feel it or not. It's like, what does your data say? What does it actually your body and like on an unconscious level, when you look at your heart rate variability or your resting heart rate, if you have a coffee before you go to bed, whether you fall asleep or not, it's irrelevant. It's like, what's it doing to your body? The thing is, is also if you think about this sleep wake time, if you wake at say eight o 'clock, okay. And you go to bed at midnight every day. and you're sleeping for around eight hours now that's eight hours of repair time if you set an alarm clock at 6 30 you're cutting your repair time short so you're losing an hour and a half of repair time so you're not having you should wake naturally when your body says i've had enough sleep to repair for instance if you have a surgery you'll be in bed and you will sleep for extra hours when you've got the flu you will sleep for extra hours because your body is going dude i need more sleep to repair here i need to conserve my energy to use that energy to repair so if you're being woken with an alarm clock in the morning you're cutting that time short you're literally aging faster so you don't set an alarm no no chance it's banned it's like literally banned in my house what if you miss work what do you mean what if you don't set an alarm you don't when i wake up okay it's like you know it is what it is the thing is is if you're employed by own boss and if i don't join the team call it's my own team so they can't really say much yeah but i don't like being in that position it's more well actually i know that i won't wake up on time if i don't go to bed on time right so it forces you to automatically go to bed at the right time because you know that you need seven and a half or eight hours for me the average is seven hours 41 minutes for the last 10 years oh really so you know seven hours 40 is your number yeah is it different for different people yeah it is and it's different from what you're working on with your health for instance when i had i had a tonsil cut out about six five months ago and i had an extra two hours of sleep every night every night and until 10 days was passed and then back to normal again it was very strange so yeah the other thing is is that if you are going to bed at midnight and then you're setting your alarm at 6 30 meaning you're only having six and a half hours sleep and you're not waking when you should do when you get into bed at night and actually aura Ring and some of the others as well like Gabbit say how fast you fall asleep why do they say that well they say that because if you go to bed and you fall asleep within a minute you are exhausted right you should not fall asleep within a minute of putting your head on the pillow that means you are exhausted because you've cut your sleep time short and your body's going get to sleep get sleep get sleep whereas realistically you should take four to seven minutes to fall asleep when you're in bed and if you're faster than that you're exhausted so not only you're cutting your sleep time short you're exhausted when you go to bed on top of that and the final piece for this is three hours before bed i'll start wearing blue blocking glasses okay people say well there's not a lot of science in them there actually is there's actually a lot of studies now behind blue blocking glasses and the effect of blue light on us there's multiple things blue light is actually pro-inflammatory okay but also when we when sunlight hits us we produce serotonin and melatonin melatonin being our sleep hormone the key thing is we produce it we only start secreting our melatonin our sleep hormone when we have an absence of blue light for three hours three hours three hours i i for me it's around two hours it makes no difference for my sleep scores at all and I've tested everywhere four hours down to one hour two hours is the sweet spot for me so I have to wear blue blocking glasses for two hours then I'm secreting my own melatonin and then I get into bed and I sleep very well so if you get into bed you've had blue light in your bathroom or your phone or whatever and you drop into sleep you fall asleep straight away you are sleeping because you're exhausted not because you've had enough repair time okay but let's get into the specifics of that because I've got some blue blocking glasses in my drawer they stay there most of the time because I always forget to wear them but I'm quite strict of like I try and avoid like watching tv late at night you know I hang out with the kids I'm not you know looking at screens I try and avoid my phone sometimes I'll check stuff but like I'll try and put it on the side and leave it alone but a lot of people are just on social media scrolling or watching tv late night movie what's the bigger deal is it the lights above our head is it the tv and the phone what what do you think it's the compound effect of all of them the thing is okay so if we think about what where light is and how it comes around and down during the day so when it's at highest point it's here so if you're walking around with blue lights in the house and i'm not talking you know like red lights i'm talking literally led flickery lights above us what does that tell our body the time of day is no daytime midday midday so if you then have candlelight i mean for instance how many times have you been on a holiday in a cottage somewhere okay i'm getting really specific now on in front of a log fire with your partner and just being tired and fall asleep on the rug it's just okay because it's different spectrum of light lower down campfire evolutionarily that's when we would have typically been falling asleep it's funny that it's not it doesn't it's not coincidence though so exposure in the bathroom they're super bright lights when you're getting ready to take you know women take their makeup off or whatever I have dim lights in fact automatic dim lights in in the room so as I walk around the house it's very dim so I don't need them on I also have automatic red lights in certain places around the house so I don't need to turn the lights on and I wear my blue blocking glasses I don't it sounds like I'm you know routine about it but it's all just set up so I don't even have to think about except for putting the blue blocking glasses on yeah look if your phone's dim you know it doesn't matter too much but it's more about having dim natural calming light not like the extreme opposite is if you go into sweet land on on oxford street right the team are laughing but you know what it's like right you walk down the street and it's like this glowing major store of like there's not a single spot anywhere that is not lit i swear they're money laundering companies but anyway and um like they seem to be open even during covid those things yeah the point is right like it's very very small details in someone's evening that can actually have a big impact on the sleep because i when i do do the the blue blocking glasses it actually works and i feel it works and i get more tired it's just i'm not that strict with it to do it on a regular basis but i do consciously also try and like turn off the overhead lights and just keep a much dimmer natural environment it's a good way to start definitely and i think blue blocking glasses for kids is probably one of the best hacks a parent can do interesting not only do the kid feel like they're cool wearing sunglasses yeah but also they're secreting more of their sleep hormone and sleep melatonin is not just sleep hormone it's also like a powerful antioxidant as well and helps kids develop so if they're having blue light even if they're not playing on the phone they're having blue light exposure putting blue blocking glasses on them so that light isn't going to their eyes which is the most photoreceptive part of all of us is our eyes for instance sunlight on our skin will wake us up eyes first which is why we wear eye mask yeah to bed but don't necessarily care about a blackout blind but when you're in a hotel room with a blackout blind you know you wake up it could be 11 in the morning you're like wow how did that happen it's because we get woken from sunlight on our skin and in our eyes as well eyes are the most important part so blue blocking glasses for kids for them to naturally have the sleep hormone that they need which helps them develop with their hormones to be a better human when they grow up is also super important that's something as a dad of two who knows how hard it is to get your kids to bed and it's like critical between me and my wife having an hour together in the day uninterrupted versus they haven't gone to sleep and then we're just both exhausted and go straight to bed as well I haven't tried blue blocking glasses for kids and I will do it and report back.

13:01I'll let you know because I think that could be great. Swanwick do kids glasses. They do. Blue blocking glasses, they look pretty cool as well. Well, we can link to them in the show notes and I'll have to check them out because I think that is, yeah, it could be fundamental. And to be honest, as a parent of two kids, you'll do anything to get your kids to sleep. So, you know, within reason, obviously. But, you know, sometimes you just need a break guys you just need a break i love your crew by the way um all right so let's get into a bit of the gadget side because you talked about your aura ring or not your gabbit ring should i say i've never heard of gabbit but i've heard of aura ring which gadgets and apps and tricks you think are the best like do you need to wear an aura ring i definitely don't i think it goes back to the whole if you haven't driven a car at 30 mile an hour you don't know what 30 mile an hour looks like and you can't drive better if you don't know it's the same with our body what you don't measure you can't manage that's the old adage um but i don't think you need to do it forever i think you just need to get a good gauge of it i like the gabbit ring personally so it stands for good habit okay i like that um for me i found it to be more accurate um and uh a smaller a smaller company that hasn't gone so mainstream and i like supporting smaller businesses um however i find it to be more accurate for me um so first thing is tracking your sleep and that comes with heart rate variability which is obviously a very very very good indicator for overall health resting heart rate blood oxygen saturation body temperature so it can also work for women for their cycles so they can track their cycles so that they you know um not for contraception but to avoid ovulation days for intimacy so therefore is you know pretty pretty accurate with those these days um so i'm a big fan of the aura or gabbit ring something like that that would be a staple for me but it is my career at the same time if i was a general optimizer hell yeah i'd still wear it but i don't think everyone else should necessarily the whole time yeah i mean if i'm honest like because i have tried whoop which also tracks your sleep and gives you a bit of a score and whatever and i've played around with it to see what works for me i'm just in a position where i feel like i know i'm the same as you if i set my alarm which is i need to go to bed by 10 i can wake up at 5 a.m every day with my seven hours and feel fantastic and i don't even need to set an alarm clock to wake up at five and for me that's enough like obviously i avoid the blue light and i'll you know not drink coffee after you know too far after lunch and i'll do these other things but primarily i think i'm good with that i don't need to go any further but i guess it's how far you want to go and different for everyone what would you say is the number one non-negotiable for people's sleep blue blocking glasses number one yeah i mean to on our previous question i just forgot to mention a couple of things is not eating for three hours before bed is actually quite a critical thing for sleep improvement you know generally eat in the light hours of the day would be the best thing and then obviously if you're still processing food when you're sleeping you're using a lot of energy to digest the food and not repairing exactly but um so yeah that my whole day is set up for sleep including eat time you know the last time i eat blue blocking glasses i and i always say this if there's one biohack that i had on the assumption i'm not on a desert island with no fake light it would be blue blocking glasses really no that big it makes such a difference to my life and if i sleep better so many other things work better so and how much are they they're not that expensive anymore 100 quid yeah yeah it's possible and there's quite a few different brands out there i i have i've always bought swanwick um which were the og brands out there there are other ones like rar optics and stuff um i loved swanwick so much in fact i recently bought into it and invested in it just because i believe in them so much and that's not because i'm trying to make money left right and center it's more i've got quite a platform these days and i think the awareness around blue light and blue blocking glasses is so important and i know for instance with my kids when i have them you know without a doubt i have blue blocking classes on them when they're able to and i've seen this with other parents as well that have rolled them out and we had a lot of feedback from swanwick about parents loving them for the kids amazing so i think blue blocking glasses is the number one and you know i've only recently brought that but i've been talking about this with blue blue light and blue blocking glasses now for long time yeah 2017.

17:48so it shows that i'm not biased to the brand i'm i don't care which brand you buy but i I do think it should be more aware. And in fact, if you buy Reader's Digest or one of these older, I'm trying to think how to word this politely, OAP magazines, you know, or where my grandparents used to get the cutouts for office. They used to have the blue blocking glasses on there, which were like the visor style ones before they became fashionable. Did they? Because they just weren't, yeah, it's like you cut it out for 59 bucks or something or other. And you can see like blue blocking glasses have been a thing now for a long time.

18:19Wow. But there's now studies. and in fact dr sachin panda has been talking about this in his book the circadian code in in great detail there's a lot of a lot of site uh science now around circadian biology and even the pharmaceutical industry is talking about circadian medication of how medications work at different times of day for different people um so yeah blue blocking glasses number one negotiable non-negotiable okay i'm going to change the pace a little bit into living longer yeah how old are you tim 36 46 you don't look at in your 40s at all but what's your biological age 21 according to glycan age 21 according to my telomere length apparently at 32 and a half um so yeah i mean there's various different age testing you can do and they all seem to say something different however my brother who is obviously very similar to me in many ways his glycan age is in the 70s and i'm in the 20s i dedicate my life to my health he doesn't so much is he unhealthy no he's not unhealthy but i just he doesn't look so vibrant i would say as myself and so you know and i see pro athletes that push it too hard and their glycogen age is very high and other people that a chilled life eat well sleep well have a lower score so i think there is some truth in it how accurate is i don't know because i don't think i'm 21 metabolically yeah you know reality is i'm got some good grades for a 21 year old i'm being i'm being called a silver fox from time to time so it's almost obviously not 21 yeah but the i think there is some truth in how you are doing metabolically so I that's where I sit nearly 47 and I only want to live to I'd be happy with 85 I feel like that's your next question well it was going to be actually yeah that's very good you want to go to 85 you don't want to go to 100 no don't need to don't need to see I do want to go to 100 because I think it'd be funny and I think I love life and I think it would just be interesting to get there it's like you want to live to 100 nothing it'd be funny well it just so many people are like no I don't want to live that long it would just be boring and I'd be old and I wouldn't be able to do anything and I'm like I've seen so many of those stories of you know the Mark Sissons of the world who six-pack ripped abs in their 70s and looking phenomenal and just living a good life like I don't see why you can't be healthy at 90 and feel good and enjoy your life like if you enjoy your life why wouldn't you want to live to 100 so my family average is 82 okay and like i want to die young as late as possible that's the line that i use yeah and i love being 46 and 47 year old dude that has the brain of a 12 year old the energy of a 15 year old and you know well yeah you just feel good and i enjoy that and i think we need to like steve jobs to quote him you know we need to clear the way out for the next generation at some point and if everyone becomes obsessed on living forever to 150 or 180 or whatever it's not it's not going to be a great world to be in everyone's going to be old and we want to clear out the way and it's like make use of the time that we have on this planet make it count enjoy it make the world a little bit better than you found it make sure that you make some really great memories make sure that you leave a good legacy and have a good family and teach your kids to be better humans than you were all of these things are super important i don't think the length over 85 really is that important I think what you do up to 85 is also I think there's some element of psychopathic tendencies in terms of needing to live to 150 to 180 someone's ego can't let go of actually one of the most fundamental and most important things about life is dying because that holds us accountable to actually keeping track of what we're doing and so I think the ones that can't let go of it have this issue with death and need to figure something out so for me 85 is good i'm very happy with that if i make it past that also great but you know is what it is you don't need to go to 150 i mean i think there's something to be said for just letting go and you know it is what it is when it happens it happens like i don't think we need to be you know psychopathic about it and want to extend it every day but what you mentioned about your family and your family's like consistent rough age you know what is the split do you think between it's all about genetics versus it's about environment diet lifestyle i saw a meme on instagram six months ago and i'm gonna say it it's like obesity runs in your family i learned someone pointing going no one runs in your family yeah like i don't mean this in any nasty way but the thing is it's like well actually it goes back to that whole community what it's not what's in your fridge it's who within shop and eat you know for instance i've seen many families that are obese obese yeah yeah but when one moves away and gets a partner all of a sudden either the partner gets fatter or they lose or they lose way and so while genetics is kind of the blueprint for instance someone with low methylation status such as myself might automatically feel more likely to eat meat because of the b12 content and the other nutrients that you can't necessarily get so easily from plants okay so i am genetically predisposed to need more meat and more b12 if i was then ethic it's super super super beyond ethical and go i'm not ever going to eat a single animal my health will suffer okay but i'm genetically predisposed to having more meat i will flourish on meat for me personally someone else might flourish on part plants so there is an element of yeah dna does determine the ultimate journey so i think the expression is genetics loads the gun epigenetics environment pulls the trigger yeah so you know if i was living with a carnivorous family for instance my genetics would thrive yeah if i was living with a vegan one it wouldn't struggle so there is an element of both i do think that if the fundamentals are done like i've said several times eating well sleeping well hydrating well moving well loving well most of these issues go away yeah yeah i mean this is the the optimal you know the basics are what's really important for most people um but i've seen you've done videos and let's get into more the controversial side of things you've done videos of telling people to throw away their perfume their deodorant their candles why what's going on there because is that shortening people's lives really like you're not consuming it um first of all one of our most powerful senses is smell and why do we have such a powerful sense when it comes to smell because things that we breathe in can kill us very quickly quicker than most things okay even even uh certain drugs get absorbed absorbed into the body the quickest the nose yeah right it's a powerful area that we don't pay enough attention to what's the number one nutrient well oxygen yeah of course yeah i mean it's such a powerful part of our operating machine our sinuses specifically for instance if you're in an air-conditioned room you know how it dries out we dehydrate from lack of moisture because of breathing through the nose and then we end up waking up with our mouth open and have a dry mouth and then we end up getting teeth issues because we're breathing with the mouth open which then changes our whole face structure because we're not breathing through our sinuses we're being through our mouth so there's a whole element of that our senses when it comes to sinuses smells is super important however we did not evolve with well when we talk about perfumes and fragrances in the label fragrance on any product it can have up to and around 400 different untested on human chemicals what in where it says fragrance or fragrance fragrance on a product it can have up to 400 chemicals that are untested on humans i didn't even know that right and a lot of them are quite volatile and where do people spray them on your neck straight on the thyroid and then they say oh my body temperature is low i get cold hands and feet i mean i'm like i almost want to ask the crew here who gets cold hands and feet from time to time ask it in any stage anywhere in the world and people are like probably 30 to 40 percent of the females in the audience specifically say yeah they get cold hands and feet right because it's a typical thyroid thing and thyroid hormones might look good but the antibodies might be high for instance chemicals in fragrance are pretty damn toxic and i actually shared some content out recently on instagram which we're spraying some on a plant on the leaf and see what it does to the plant overnight it kills it really yeah it kills it and yet we're spraying on our skin some people say well well, I spray it on my jumper and my clothes instead.

27:49It's like, well, actually, these fragrances are so smart because it's such a big industry, they put propellants into it, propellants that make the smell project out and last forever. Because people feel that if they can't smell it on them, it's not there. It's not working. In fact, they end up putting more on them because our senses down-regulate automatically after a while because our body goes, actually, it's safe. For instance, if you're at a campfire or something or other, your senses might go okay no i'm safe over a period of time that would down regulate you won't notice it much and it become background noise and that's what happens with perfume and fragrances so therefore people spray more on it and then they need propellants on it and then someone says oh can you smell my perfume and it's got propellants on it so everyone else can smell it around so it's going into other people's noses it's nuts so it's actually really toxic and i've seen people that have had high thyroid antibodies remove perfume completely and not just spraying on their clothes instead and their thyroid antibodies come down so fragrance is absolutely awful and then when you look at things like candles candles are made from paraffin wax a lot of the time not wax not beeswax which is actually really good um it's actually they release ions into the air so it's actually good for the air if you burn beeswax whereas when you have paraffin wax which comes from petrol you are literally burning toxic fumes in your house and nice you if you have a air device i actually have a jasper um home air filtration system and when it picks up anything toxic it reads the pm 2.5 and whatnot what's the pm 2.5 so particular matter so it's a particular size of um voc and basically air quality meter as soon as i put a candle on it goes crazy if i use a beeswax one it doesn't really yeah and and i've got a meter that does a whole you know all the different pm measurements and um vocs and and whatnot for air quality for london that's why i have air filtration and purification in my home um so they're really bad and it's like it's the fix is simple the fix is really simple perfume buy a non-toxic voc free one which there's a few brands out there yeah candles in fact divinia taylor are i think a mutual friend who has a brand will powders and they have several candles that are made from coconut oil that don't have the nasty fragrances in and pretty good and or you can buy natural beeswax candles i mean it's super easy fix essential oils fine yeah yeah it depends yeah i mean depends on if you burn essential on how and what and carry your rods and stuff but yeah the devil's in the detail too technical and complicated for us okay but let's get into the big things and then let's wrap this up in terms of i want two things from you one of the biggest things that's going to be shaving years off people's life and their long and the biggest thing you can do as anyone today without money to just actually increase their lifespan big questions you've tested it you've got all the data you've tried it on yourself i mean sure we're still all learning there's no perfect answer but in your opinion today i'm gonna just retin on the same thing it's like change the word sleep to repair that's it that would be the number one thing because as soon as you swap that word out you'll start prioritizing it more when the rest of your life gets easier and better so i would say that's the the single most important thing in terms of health um in terms of the worst thing they're to shorten their lifespan alarm clock really or alcohol or alcohol it's got to be alcohol no well alcohol okay unless you're an alcoholic you don't do it too often whereas an alarm clock you do every day it's the little things that compound the compound effect yeah i mean you just have to look at your credit card bill at the end of the month and you go hang on a minute i only brought a few starbucks and a few little bits and pieces all of a sudden it's five grand you know what i mean it's like it's an extreme it is these days these things add up and it's like i only bought a few bits and pieces i didn't even buy a jacket or any clothes or anything and my credit card bills huge how does that happen you just look it's all this adding up and it's the same it's the same on these little habits they all stack up and some people say oh well everything's a chemical or you know you know that can't poison you yeah but the compound effect of these things is significant so if you just said okay from now on I'm going to not have an alarm clock because I'm going to stress I'm going to stress that I'm not going to wake up therefore I'm going to force myself to go to bed earlier every night yeah your life will have a massive impact from that and compounding effect of the time across the week but why is it simply because you're getting more sleep or it's you're not interrupt you're not interrupting your natural sleep cycle not interrupt you're not telling your body i don't care if you're done repairing you're getting up it's like hold on dude you're going to recover and you'll get up when you're recovered it's a completely different mindset shift and if you respect the time you go to sleep properly because you know you're going have to get up yeah you're gonna go to bed earlier okay but i've got two kids i'll wake up when they wake up potentially right for most people because they can get up at six or five you know whatever but like is it really practical for a lot of people yes and no i mean the thing is your habits shape their habits and vice versa it's not just a one-way thing oh they go to bed at that time therefore we go to bed at this time our parents set our habits for our whole life pretty much and and and the and if our parents aren't respecting the time that they go to sleep the kids kids will never respect the time they go to sleep and if you're only optimizing the time your kids go to sleep because you want an hour with your partner the kids are going to know that yeah if it's a rule in the house is that hey we go to sleep at this time of night you go to bed at this time of night because we need to repair opposed to mommy and daddy need an hour together yeah so it's like you're training your kids to be a certain way and which way do you want them to be do you want them to be in the same pattern as you're in probably not you want them to be in their own pattern and and that is to train them that way so you know it's easy for me to say i'm not a father yet but i put a lot of thought into this i've been writing a book all about the lessons that i should have had from my parents that i didn't get so i put a lot of thought a lot of writing into this and i really have been playing with this for a long time but it is our habits that shapes our kids and obviously both ways yeah well we definitely have to take responsibility for it and lead from the front i wonder how many parents are listening to this going tim you're full of shit you have no idea what you're talking about because i haven't got kids yet but well i mean the reality is i think you can't control it so much like sometimes you know jack's last night just wouldn't go to bed it was probably 11 o 'clock before he went to bed and that completely screwed up me because i had to kind of stay up with him i was in the room with him and then of course he wakes up at 9 30 today because we didn't set an alarm for him we didn't force him to go to school because we actually think if he needs to sleep he needs to sleep but you can't control that and it goes the other way as well sometimes bodhi was up from midnight till 4 a.m on monday night nothing i could do about it he was just up he's a kid it happens so i think there's an element of as a parent you just have to fucking deal with it and do it but then the more you are consistent with it and have you know the overall right patterns and behaviors i think the more it will rub off but it can never be perfect i know for me when that happens and it's easy for me to say now but my mindset would be why is it that this what my child had that problem at 4 a.m and it's like there's things in place that for instance blue blocking glasses is one of those things that will help will help not eliminate completely but help eliminate and there's various other things that can be done to help calm the kid down before bed as well like for instance the kids magnesium gummies is a classic example not melatonin because you just need blue blocking glasses for that there are things like that can help minimize that but you know it comes from the the top down habits of what so yeah interesting it'd be interesting to get there myself well yeah i look forward to this podcast in a few years time once you've got kids and we can get into how it's working because look i i'm with you like i think sometimes there's you know you can nudge it in the right direction but you know bodie was just ill he was waking up coughing and there's nothing we can do and i've just got to ride it out and this is the way it goes and you just then sometimes you are just surviving you're not always thriving as a parent but it's only for a few years and then they get older and then they sleep properly and then everything gets better so i think you have to as a parent have a few years of compromised sleep because it's an investment in your kids right at the end of the day and you're to care for them and love them which is i think the best thing you can do in the world but anyway 100 last question tim we always finish on this is we've talked about the gadgets we've talked about the technical stuff we've talked about your biological age but what does health mean to you

37:13being healthy happy human that leaves the world a little bit better than they found it that's it and if you're not showing up as a happy human every day and making everyone's life around you better and if everyone did this the world would be a much better place and having a bigger purpose of leaving the world a bit better than you found it you know that's really what health gives us the what's the expression is like a man that has everything wants only more and the guy that doesn't have health only wants one thing you know you got to have health to be able to be an awesome human and i i really work hard on being the best human i can possibly be i'm not perfect but i definitely strive to aim there and i wish everyone else could have the same type of mindset because the world would be a lot healthier and happier and easier it's already hard enough without making it harder and harder so yeah that's what health means for me i love that because happiness is something that we don't often talk about loads but when you're tired you got low energy you basically just become a bit grouchy and a bit bullshit and a bit you know you don't show up as well as you could you know and i even find running a business if i've had a good night's sleep and i have the opportunity to work out i can deal with stuff way better like shit can hit the fan and I'm like oh well it's all right we'll crack on whereas if you haven't slept you feel like the world's imploding in you and that kind of happiness plays into our culture plays into our interactions with everyone in the community like I think it's um really important we just want to live a happy easy good life right awesome thanks so much Tim for coming on the unprocessed truth it's been a lovely conversation I've really enjoyed it thank you for coming thanks for having me