Apple Intelligence, iPhones, and the rest of WWDC 2024

25:18And that's really how they framed it all day long was this is the beginning of a change. Like, this is the next generation of these devices. This is the next generation of how we use these apps. David at one point said you can squint and you can see the end of the app era here in the way that they're talking about Siri. There's just excitement in a way that I would, for example, contrast with the Vision Pro, which received 45 seconds of like now you can look at your keyboard in immersive mode. Ultra wide displays. Thank you. But, you know, the way they talked about that product four months ago was like, we have to pretend this is the thing.

25:56And the way they talked about Apple Intelligence today was like, this is the thing that changes your experience with this phone forever. What is the cool stuff here? Because, I mean, I was there or wasn't there. I watched it here at this beautiful house. The image playground I was really excited about. But I can just, like, do that right now with most online image generators. What are the other, like, cool things? higher quality. Yeah, yeah. Right, they will look better. My shitpost will be infinitely better with something else. What is cool? We've got ChatGPT integration. We've got Image Playground.

26:30We've got Jemojis, which is like, make your own emojis. That's cool. That rules. What's the other AI stuff? What is this for? The math notes where it will calculate the math? I think that's something of everything. That's like AI, but it's the old... It's the old AI. I mean, this is the weirdest thing about all of the Apple intelligence stuff is like, You and I kept accidentally disagreeing with each other in the live blog, which I really enjoyed. You kept saying, so weird, we're 45 minutes in and there's been no AI. And I kept saying all they're talking about is AI. Because like every single one of these features, it's just AI underneath.

27:02It's not the AI they're talking about. And there is this like long spectrum of what is just software and what is AI and what is like new. And it's all sort of compressing together. I mean, it's not as fuzzy as AI's definition is right now. Yeah, for sure. But like the everything on the iPad, pure AI, and they didn't talk about it as AI at all. They, in fact, pulled it out of the thing where they talked about AI and talked about it separately. But I think all the intelligence stuff to me felt like a sort of developer demo in a very real way. Right. This is a developer conference. And I think it made me think of the Vision Pro thing, actually, because to some extent, like what Apple is doing with all of this is saying, look, we built a bunch of really cool technology.

27:46Here it is. please go do something interesting with it and so far the vision pro not so much we'll get to that later but i i was kind of struck by the same thing of like this is a lot of talk about the logistics of a compute cloud and not a lot of talk about features that people can use yeah and there's a bunch of siri stuff and i think we can talk about what's coming to siri uh but this idea i think especially of the sort of siri app intense thing where you can talk to your phone and it can do stuff on your device for you. That's the whole thing. And I feel like Apple didn't weirdly sort of connect those dots today because they have this big idea of what Apple intelligence can be.

28:25They have to convince everybody that this is going to be humongous and like the size of, you know, the iPhone as an industry, that's how you keep growing. If you're Apple, this whole thing, I just could not stop thinking was like Apple executives talking to investors, like in a very real way was them being like, please, we, we have a growth plan. We're going to be so successful, don't let us be the third most valuable company anymore. Give it back to us. Well, I'll just give you the clearest evidence of this that I can offer you. The keynote ended, and we did not go to look at any demos. Yeah.

28:55We went to – we had lunch. How was it? It was fine. I eat the corporate food with an immense amount of guilt. So it was fine. It was, you know, Apple. They have a good chef at Cafe Max or whatever. But there was not, like, a thing where we, like, ran around playing with a bunch of AI. stuff afterwards. And I even think to some extent the OpenAI partnership is so that no one is comparing Apple to OpenAI. I think the OpenAI partnership is almost exclusively for investors rather than actual people. We have to get the stuff and like Craig said, any place you see a blinking text cursor is a place where you can use this integration in the system.

29:33That's pretty interesting. A lot of it also felt like very Windows-y. Like a lot of the biggest tools, the coolest stuff was like, oh, that's also stuff Microsoft announced. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, we can convince an email. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. It's really, it's like genuinely insane to me how similar everybody is doing AI. Like, God help me if one more company is like, we have an idea for how to summarize your emails so that you can read them faster. Like, I'm good. We have solved that problem that I don't think was a real problem. Did you see the fake email that they made nicer? It was actually very good.

30:10Was it? You should get the screen cap of this from the keynote. But they're like, you know, sometimes you write an email at work and it's a little too spicy and you make it nicer. And there's like they flashed up a mean email and it was like, guys, we have to stop doing this bullshit. And you're like, oh, that's that's how Craig emails. I must insist that you like blah, blah, blah. And they made it nicer. And it was like, gentlemen, I must once again ask that you stop fucking it up. Was it Jeff Bezos who was famous for forwarding customer emails to people with just a question mark? It's very good.

30:40I'm imagining now you take that and highlight the question mark and you're like, make this nice. And it's just like, hello, everyone. I received this email from a customer. There's a real part of this, to your point about features and only the six ideas. They are playing a little bit of catch up, right? Microsoft's been out there making Google dance this whole time. It's hard to demo features and say, we made it more personal until you get to Siri and all the stuff they think Siri can do, which is you just ask Siri, what time do I have to leave to get my daughter's dance recital? This is the example that you used 50 times.

31:13And then Siri has to know that you have a daughter and where she is and where that dance recital is, what your schedule is. I think, Federer, you pointed out, it has to know if you like using Uber or Lyft. You go down the list of things you do on your phone and you need all what they call personal context to make it work. And right now, none of the other compute models we've seen pull this off. Maybe Google will get there on Android. They're less good at making the people who work at Google talk to each other than Apple is. But those are the only two companies that even can. They're the only two companies that come close.

31:47And Google, to some extent, was trying to show these ideas in a less focused way. Apple was straight up like, here's what you're going to do. You're going to pick up Siri. You're going to say, I've got to get to this dance recital. Make it happen. And then Siri is going to run off and tie into all the app intents on your phone. It's going to book a thing. It's going to move a meeting. It's going to call it a day. and you're going to get in the car and look at the dancer's title. You're going to say, edit me a video. Was it fishing trip that was the demo? I went fishing. Make me a video of this fishing trip of my son learning to fish.

32:15And Siri is just going to talk to whatever video editing app is on your phone that you've chosen. It's going to read all the videos for you. It's going to make a thing. It's going to pick a song about fishing from Apple Music. Here you go. Bob's your uncle. You're all done. And this thing, those are the features. They need a bunch of developers to expose all the hooks. so that Siri can actually do it. I think it is very interesting that they're going to App Intents. They're not doing the stuff that we thought they might do, which is like screen reading your phone and clicking around for you. I think everyone has realized that idea sounds great, but is ultimately not trustworthy.

32:51I think it would also break Apple's relationships with its developers. Yeah, it's also unnecessary if you have a gigantic developer ecosystem of people who are very happy to build stuff for your platform. But that means they have to be happy to build stuff for this platform. Which is super debatable right now, I feel like. Yeah, because this would also, your example, that means, okay, I'm not checking Outlook to find the email for when the recital is. I'm not checking Outlook to move this. You can tell I use Outlook to move my calendar around. I'm not going into the Uber app myself or the Lyft app.

33:22It's going to auto-choose all of that. Suddenly, that's lost revenue for a lot of different people just to make my experience. Yeah, Uber SEO is like, all right, when do I upsell you to Uber Plus or whatever nonsense. What this means is the subscription economy in apps goes through the roof because all of a sudden I just need you to sign up for my thing. Right. Like if I'm Uber, I don't actually care if you're in the Uber app for the most part, as long as you're using Uber, because I make money when you use Uber. So actually making it easy for you to use Uber benefits me to some extent. Right.

33:52Whereas if I run Yelp and I'm an ad based system, I have exactly zero incentive to be part of this because all I'm doing is giving you the information that you want. without you having to come look at my ads. So the end of this is, and I think this is true with a lot of AI, is you look at a lot fewer things, but you pay a lot more subscriptions. Yeah. And that, I don't know how I feel about that. I can say I hate that. I don't want to spend more money. Yeah. Yeah, but they did say they will have something called on-screen awareness, which is they will know the state of your phone as you're using it.

34:22They will help you. Again, this is Google Ads. Google Now, baby. A million years ago, we have an entire feature about Google Now from like 10 years ago. Like, these ideas have been floating around for a while. I think it's been very hard for Apple to make them see new in this context because we just came, we're in developer conferences, and this is the end of it, and the same ideas have been done over and over again. The one that struck me as particularly interesting is type to Siri because it kept saying, you know, chatbots are not this. We actually keep people safe by not letting them just do chatbot stuff.

34:55That's how you break this stuff and find its weaknesses and make it do evil stuff. Also, you can now type to Siri. Yeah. And it's like, first of all, they should have had typed to Siri from the very beginning of Siri. I think Paul Miller on this show was like, it is a crime that you can't just like type Siri a command that you have to talk to it. Yeah. It's like an accessibility nightmare. Yeah. It does exist, but you have to pick, which is ridiculous. Yeah. I will just remind everybody that Siri launched like the year The Verge launched. Like that's how old this thing is. Who do you think has done better?

35:26we are told that it's like a billion and a half requests to siri a day yeah just slightly behind the verge yeah people command us to do set timers all day long the verchcast hotline is just like five minutes um but they should have had it from all along and now they do so you can type to siri whether that feels like a chatbot to people or just commands who who knows yeah uh one of the coolest features by the way they added to airpods for siri is now when it asks you if you want to do something, you can just nod yes or shake no. I'm very excited about that. Very cool. So they're just kind of making Siri more natural and more available to you, and then increasing its set of capabilities.

36:02None of that is coming in the betas of iOS that are going to be out. That is just going to slowly increase over the course of now until the end of iOS 18. And then we'll see what makes it, what gets pushed to iOS 19, whatever. But they're basically saying, like, we're starting now. We're going. Siri's going to become this thing. That's what we want it to be. And they're severely limiting what phones it will work on. Right. Right. And it's unclear whether that's because they want everybody to buy a new phone. They probably want everybody to buy a new phone. I was going to say, you don't think that's clear?

36:34I think that's fairly clear. I think I need to spend more time thinking about the differences between the M1 and sort of like whatever, the A-series, the iPhone, the iPhone 15 Pro. There's some stuff there that's different. But yeah, they probably just want everybody to buy a new phone. and you're not going to get some like m1 macbook air owner to be like i'm doing this in theory if this cloud computing thing works as well as apple says you should actually be able to fail it pretty gracefully down and just do more and more in the cloud as you get to older and older phones well you want yeah you want the older phones or the older cell radios pushing more and more hell yeah let's go maybe the cell radios is it like maybe the cell radio is why yeah who does or they just want to sell a bunch of phones i don't know if you looked at their last quarterly earnings They're desperate for an upgrade cycle.

37:18It's probably a mix. But I do think this is an unusually developer-dependent feature, not only to plug into the Intense, but one of the things Apple did a lot of today, and we should get into it. We have a lot of OSs to get to. But they opened up a lot of new APIs and things people can tap into and gave them access to new stuff that's going on in the system. And they're both giving users more stuff they can noodle around with, but also developers feel like they're getting way more access to like the underlying stuff happening on the device than they have in the past. And I feel like if you're Apple and you want to like make things work across the device, you have to do that.

37:56But it also feels like this is Apple being like, OK, we are sort of throwing open the iPhone in a new way. Please come do cool things with it. Please, we need it so bad. Please come, which is like wild for them to be doing right now when probably their relationship with developers has never been more fraught. yeah yeah i spent a lot of time trying to decide how big a deal i think that is because on the one hand where the hell are you gonna go yeah like what other moves do you have at this point and for apple this is another chance to shore that up because if this increases apple's market share it starts to fight against some of these other ai systems everybody who's like oh open ai is gonna break the paradigm of the smartphone apple can just sit here and be like gotcha come make apps for us again yeah but if you're a rabbit right right but at the same time it is it is true that there are a lot of developers who uh do not believe apple has their best interests at heart right now especially if the point of the all this stuff is to obviate the app right like right uh i think i think like fundamentally it's very interesting to look at apple under a little bit of competitive pressure like where are you gonna go is like that's the monopoly where are you gonna go like we they have all the customers no one right now is like running off to buy an AI-powered Surface Book.

39:12Federighi again today said, technically, we've been shipping AI PCs since 2020. All right. And some people want to call that a category now. And it's like, they are feeling pressure. It's good. Yeah. Like, it's good for all of technology when these companies are ferociously competitive and this stuff has made them ferociously competitive. They all have the same idea. It's all the same stuff. We make this email 10 % nicer. Yeah. Email summarization wars, baby. Let's go. There's just a part of it. But there's a part of this where at the end of it, it's just like i'm sending david a robot email it's his robot summarizing it he's sending me some weird mutant genmoji in response it's like what have we accomplished i i love how it's just abstracting all communication like that's all ai does now is it just abstracts everything we say yeah you'll send the first email and then it'll just be ai forever yeah yeah and then something will end up in your calendar yeah that'll be great some stuff that they did not announce which i I was curious if they would.

40:09They announced AI image removal in the background of photos, but not anything beyond that. So basically, Smart Eraser, which Google Photos has had forever and Lightroom now has. That's really interesting. They're going to add this to more of their products. But you could go even farther and be like, you can just take people out of these photos. And they didn't demo that. Yeah. So Apple is clearly operating within some set of constraints. They did a lot of safety checking around their generative AI tool. which again produces just like horrific cartoons. I'm so excited. It's not nearly as photorealistic as the other stuff that we see on the market.

40:44Like Meta is an actual, it's just like just a weird spaghetti Jesus day and night, right? Apple can't make anything of that quality because it's running everything locally. Well, it's using all of like your images to train on it, right? No. It's not. No, no, no. So where's it training? How's it training? It just has a model. It's a pre-trained model. It's running on your phone. Okay. So pre-trained garbage model. Yeah. And they were very clear actually David wrote this up the Apple just like everybody else. Okay We trained in the public web just for his sex models Yeah, just like yeah, like you do like yeah, and like publishers could have opted out.

41:16It's like what? Publishers like get to make sure Apple bod isn't scraping us Maybe they were and everyone free time about chat You've been one person. I don't even know if we block a disclosure. We have a robots file someone else is in charge of it but like they said they trained their image model on a bunch of apple owned images in order to maintain safety they selected the data they were training with they licensed a bunch of books and news archives and stuff so all that stuff is sitting on the on the phone which is why it's as limited as it is it's not trained on your data i was really training training a model on even just the amount of photos and like a normal phone like your phone would explode yeah yeah also just It's horrible.

42:00I don't want to see anything it does there. That's why you need to go from 35 to 38 to OppSops.

42:09Good comments on YouTube last week. But like that last piece where like, how will we keep it safe? How will we keep it from doing the weird stuff the other models have done? The weirdest part about this is on your own phone, code running locally, on the phone you purchased with the operating system you're on, there's stuff Apple will not let you do. In a way that right now Apple doesn't sit between you and what you type into pages. It doesn't sit between you and what you can record with the camera. It doesn't sit between you and what you can edit in iMovie. But you open Image Playground and you're like, make me some horrific stuff.

42:41And Apple is just going to say no. Because Apple doesn't want to run into what every single other company runs into. Where it's like, oh no, you did a racism. So the difference is all that stuff is happening on a website, controlled by a company, on someone else's server. there's a lot of precedent for you know once you're using cloud service other people get to say what you do with it there's not a lot of precedent for you are running code locally on your computer if you can do it in airplane mode should there be any rules right and the one that I think of all the time I've asked a bunch of people about this the one that comes to mind right now is Adobe Photoshop will not let you print out a dollar bill you scan a dollar into Photoshop and try to print it like no it's a dollar we're not going to let you do counterfeiting the government has asked us very politely to not enable counterfeiting and just like won't do it okay like we've done i think everyone is sort of like accepted over time yeah you know fine like don't do counterfeiting in photoshop yeah but that's very different than like what just reading the paper and what kind of apple tested on and what they're trying to get rid of it's like it's just all the shit posting it's it's all the stuff like yeah sometimes you do want to send something absolutely horrible to you yeah like a bit photoshop will let you print out like a bunch of butts yeah yeah to photoshop will absolutely in fact and a bit apple will not let i don't know firefly is ready for like make a bunch of butts but firefly runs in the cloud right so we've accepted this thing where it's like you're using someone else's computer particularly for free uh and then you say what's good or bad and we have some expectations about what they will allow you're using your own computer there are no there we do not usually allow these things to have rules you can make all the butts you want right if you pick an open source model.

44:20I mean, that is the use case. Finally, a way to sell Chromebooks at scale. AIPCs for Microsoft. All the butts you want. But yeah, if you take an open source model and run it on some PC today, nothing's stopping you. There's not really a way to stop you unless the chip makers prevented it. That's just not going to happen, right? I've asked Lisa Sue this question. I've asked Qualcomm this question. They're like, yeah, if the government tells us not to allow stuff, we want to do it. Anyhow, the point of this is I think people are going to get this. They're going to assume it's their computer, and the thing that it will not be is 100 % their computer anymore.

44:59No, and I kind of find that a little gross. I mean, I think if it was just a straight-up app, if it wasn't, like, integrated into a whole bunch of other apps, I wouldn't feel as gross about it. If it was just like, oh, yeah, that's the Apple image generator app. It won't let you make butts. I'd be like, okay, that's fair. But like, okay, if you want to make butts in any of these other tools, I should be allowed to. Well, I think we're going to have our first test. I'm so excited. Apple, again, the vibe at WDC is like, we know people are going to do weird stuff with our thing. We'll take it down when we need to.

45:33They very much know that the systems will hallucinate and there's going to be some weird outcomes. They're just like ready for it. Yeah. And I think we should take a break and actually talk about all the OSs after this. But the one piece of this that philosophically I'm thinking about is this is the first time an operating system is going to be straight up like. No. No. We're just not going to let you do it. And Apple's approach to it is we're the ones generating it, so we're going to set the rules. That's just, that feels weird to me. It's weird. It's going to be weird. Yeah, I don't like that.

46:02All the other ones are on the cloud. So you can't roll up to Google and be like, here's what I want to do with your data center today. I think I just want to say free the butts. We got to free them. We got to take a break. So we'll take a break. Like, we'll be fine. Everybody think about whatever you need to think about. But free the butts. Free the butts. We'll be right back. Support for this show comes from LinkedIn. When you're a small business owner, your business is on your mind 24-7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs.

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49:54All right, we're back with VergeCast, the flagship podcast of leaky user data. There we go. I'm just going to keep saying it. Allison Johnson's here. Welcome, Allison. All right. Outside of the AI stuff, there was a ton of other news. WWDC, Apple updated almost every single one of its operating systems. I say almost because TVOS received virtually no updates. It got some. It got the same updates Amazon has had for years. But only in the Apple TV Plus app for Apple TV originals. Perfect. Yeah. It's the severance box now. That's just what that's for. It's fine. It's the most expensive streamer on the market.

50:32Dave, do you want to run us through all these? Yeah, let's do this. So there are eight platforms I have here, and I'm defining platforms slightly more loosely than Apple did. And I have ordered them in what I would call rough order of my own particular interest. so I feel like the first one we should start with is uh iOS 18 yeah um we should start with the personalization right this is like the thing I was most excited about coming into this um and Allison I'm particularly curious how you feel as someone who uses all the phones and is someone who is like I feel like every single time I look over your shoulder you're like moving things around on your home screen just in life uh add some chaos what did you make of all this yeah it's uh I feel like it's the next step you know with the lock screen customization we've gotten and home lock screen widgets which i love and i don't know if anybody else uses but yeah just a few more options i'm pretty interested in the control center updates they've like kind of rejiggered it and now it's like way more customizable you can like resize the tiles and you can move things around and then that kind of feeds into the lock screen where you can change the shortcuts the like what is it flashlight and camera yeah flashlight bottom left camera bottom right yeah um which for some reason i have trouble hitting those things but you can change them and you can make them pretty much anything that's in the control center options i think yeah the halide folks are very excited because you can just put halide in yeah oh true right on the lock screen yeah which is wild Like, do I want to blame this on EU regulatory pressure?

52:14I would like to blame this. But it's rules, I think. It's great. It's cool. This is like what everybody wants is to be able to reprogram a bunch of these buttons to different kinds of apps. Yeah. I mean, it's something that Android's been doing what? Since it started? A long time. I would say. It is so funny watching Craig Federighi stand on stage and be like, look, I have an app icon. I can put it anywhere I want. And it's like, oh, my God, Craig. By the way, I just want to point out. You can't no you can't thank you. No, it's still a grid I compared it to stage manager in the live blog and a bunch of people gave me shit for it.

52:47I'm right Freeform you can't get to like desktop levels of crazy. Yeah, it's a grid Yeah, and you can put some stuff on one side or the bottom Honestly moving out of the grid and making you be like allowing you to put wherever you want It would be good security for them because if you get somebody's phone you're like I don't fucking know where any of these apps are It's just a pile. It's just a pile. Oh, God. They also announced what I think should just be known as the Grindr feature. The Ashley Madison, if you will. Yeah. Where you can have a folder full of hidden apps that are locked. I was like, oh, what are those hidden apps?

53:25Oh, well, if you're married, I know what those hidden apps are. Sensitive information. I'm going to be suspicious of all of y 'all's phones. That's where I put the notes for things I'm going to buy in my life. I just want her to know ahead of time. You're real sweet. A whole app just for that. No, but so I'm very excited about the apps on the home screen thing. Like that rules. Just the thing where you can put a row of them on the side and nowhere else. Wonderful. Yeah. Like that's where icons should go. Like if you've ever tried to use your phone in one hand, it's stupid that there are icons everywhere.

53:56Anyway, the thing that I think is bad is the color theming that Apple is trying to do. I've seen a bunch of screenshots of this. So in theory, apps will be able to theme their own apps, or theme their own icons, so you'll be able to do lots of different things with it. But you can also, it seems like just brute force a color across the whole home screen. Every single screenshot I've seen of it from devs so far looks like trash. That's because they haven't done it right. It's got to be that really horrible green, and you've got to have the Matrix background on your phone. And then it's going to be sick.

54:28I don't believe that. I don't know if anyone has ever seen Kranz's Slack theme. Unusable. It's an unusable. It's a beautiful security measure. No one's going to be looking over my shoulder at Slack. They're going to be like, nope, mm-mm. You know you have to look at it, right? That's the challenge there. Yeah, but you just harden yourself. This explains a lot of why sometimes I'll Slack you, and eight days later, you're like, oh, hey. Yeah, I don't like it. But no, I thought that was like both the dumbest thing and also my favorite thing. Because like if there's the potential to make it look really pretty, you could theoretically.

55:05But every example they had on there was like horrible. Yeah. Like what Google has done with Material You, I think is great. And they've done a good job of making it match with backgrounds. And that's some of what Apple is trying to do here, it seems like. But I don't know. It's just like a weird brute force thing that I'm not into. Even the sample he did where he's like, it's like the dog and there's a bunch of tennis balls. He was like, yeah, I can choose a color from here and immediately chose the tennis ball color. So like that was like, that was the demo. He made it look like garbage in the demo.

55:33Yeah. All of you underestimate the power of teens to theme their phones. Like this is for some huge percentage of people. This is the reason they have been jailbreaking their phones. No, no, there's going to be so many purple and pink phones very, very soon with like the Comic Sans font. Yeah, that's going to be amazing. I'm very excited for the teenagers to ruin their phones. But this is like table stakes stuff that Apple has not had forever. And now they're like, OK, you can like customize your home screen even more. And the reason they never had it before was because Steve Jobs and maybe only Steve Jobs had the conviction to say most of you have bad taste and I don't want you to make my phone ugly.

56:13And now they're out of those guys. Yeah. Joni left. He's gone. Yeah. What's he going to do? Yeah. And with him, all good taste went to. All the rest of the designers left. They're going to throw up some other design. Here's this guy. He made the fabric band on the Vision Pro. He thinks you have horrible taste. I feel like every year for the past few years, we've been allowed to make our phones a little bit uglier. Yeah. Like, we're just given a little bit more. And we should be allowed to make them as ugly as possible. If I want to look at MySpace, let me. it's it's it's so obviously coming just give it i'm so excited um even though even the control center stuff is really fascinating there it now has pages uh i think ford ceo jim farley was out there posting on threads about how excited he is for the ford pass integration with control center the maquis got like a little cameo yeah you can super unlock your doors from control center now i don't think they even unlocked the doors i think they just turned on the air conditioning in the That was the demo during the keynote, but the integration has, you can unlock the doors from the luxury.

57:19It's just what everybody wanted, was to not have to use the Ford Pass app. But it's like, even that is just, it's a little bit more, just let anything happen here. Yeah. Like Control Center, I think is a successful product for Apple. I think so. It does the thing that everybody wants it to do. And now it's just another Surface to muddy up. I did like, well, because Jim and I have talked about this a lot, where we talk about the smart home stuff. And the smart home controls in the control center were pretty terrible. They weren't great. Yeah. Because they kept on, they moved them around, which is exactly what you don't want to do.

57:53Yeah, you were like, I want to turn off my light. Oh, cool. You decided I never need to turn off my light. Yeah, because the four that they do, they auto-populate based on what you've used last. Horrible. So if you're like, I want to turn off this light, you end up all the way in the home app. Yeah. Whereas the light you turned on yesterday is like, here I am, ready to turn me on again. I know. I never go in that room. Leave me alone. Yeah, so I think the fact that you can customize the home stuff more, that was like, I was like, okay. Because that gives me, that's like, I think about how many swipes it takes me to like turn off a light in my house, right?

58:24Yeah. And right now it's like, okay, I got to go into the home app. I got to find the, look for it. If it's not on that front page, I got to go to the thing. And now be like, swipe, swipe to the home section. And soon you'll be able to just be like, Siri, dark. Yeah. I just have to say, there's now like a lot of ways to do everything on your phone. Yes. Because to some extent, your home screen now has widgets. Your lock screen now has widgets. There's still the weird old like today screen to the left of your home screen. You can put stuff in apps. You can long press on an app icon to do stuff.

58:53You can now, one cool thing that I saw, you can long press on an app icon to turn it into a widget in place on the home screen, which looks very cool. It's neat. They like breezed through this stuff to get to the AI. And there's actually a lot of like little design details in iOS 18 that look really great. uh the new settings for flashlight in the flashlight widget are awesome yeah you can set the width of the beam of the flashlight that's awesome they should have spent an hour on this that's yes i honestly believe like in any other year where apple didn't feel like it either had to or had an ai story to tell uh we would have spent like an hour talking about little tiny design details and there would have been long videos about like i just saw one thing on twitter that now when you press the volume button, the bezel indents slightly on the screen so you can see the button being pressed.

59:40Just this tiny little affordance that it looks like it's being pressed from the side. Oh, that's beautiful. Love it. No, no, no. I know what they're doing with that. You know what they're doing with that. We all know what they're doing with that. They're getting ready to take the buttons away. Yeah, that was my next thought. Oh, that's interesting. I hate both of you for ushering that into existence. Oh, no. I mean, the second I saw them be like, the screen will dink. I'm like, oh, I know what you're doing. Don't make my screen dink. But we have buried the lead long enough. We got our RCS. It's RCS time.

1:00:08Eli screamed. If you listen, I did it well. I wish I had thought about it sooner. So at IO, when they mention RCS, the crowd goes wild. Like Dieter rips his shirt open. At the Apple event, when their RCS shows up and he says it for one second, I don't know, RCS thing. dead silence except for me And I believe Allison also cheered. Yeah, when I realized you were. I was like, oh, I can do a cheer. I should have just screamed, Dieter! Yeah. That would have gotten the laugh, I think. Other than that, there were no sounds. No other sounds were made. I bet you could hear you somewhere in the live stream.

1:00:49If you do, send it to us, VergeCastTheVerge.com. Send us an Eli screaming about RCS. There's a very famous bootleg of Jeff Tweedy from Woco playing in Madison, and it forced him to play the song Gun by Uncle Tupelo. And it goes out there, and it's just me going, Gun! And he's like, really? It's out there. You can find it. It's not a legal recording. But no, the RCS, so we talked last week and we were debating like our how big a deal are they going to make out of RCS? And I think where we landed, if I'm not mistaken, was it'll be in the bento box at the end that shows all the features, but they won't name it.

1:01:21And I would say we almost got that. He did say the letters RCS out loud on stage. As the bento box appeared. Yeah, right. It was like a brief. I was kind of like, oh, there's RCS. And then he said, and now we have RCS. And then just breezed past it. Dead side. They spent more time on the satellite messaging. You're in the woods. You can now thumbs up emoji your friend. And then we have RCS. Yeah. And the fact that you can now do text formatting. You can do like a breakthrough in your messages now. Which is definitely not going to work over RCS. I can tell you that with great comments. Yeah, and that's a bunch of features that are iMessage only.

1:01:58They could be like, now we have RCS. By the way, SMS works with a satellite. It's not RCS. I did see that. That's the best of the best of the satellites, but not RCS. I did think it was incredible that in 2024, we went to a keynote by the third richest company in the world. State of the art computing company. And they're like, you can underline this text. And you can also bold it and italicize it. And people were like. When there was a moment in Siri one where he was like, now you can find documents. And we were like, oh, my God, documents. in the iPad where it was like, we've made file browsing easier.

1:02:34It's like, dude, this problem is super solved. Like, you just refuse to solve it. Yeah. A lot of those moments where you just recontextualize old solutions into new places, like you can italicize text and messages. Yeah. I understand why. It's just like, really? It's the I button. It's been in every word processor I've ever used. A little slanty I, you could just push it? Cool. You can do it just anywhere. You can do it on Twitter. Or you could. You can italicize? yeah but you had to like it was like weird you had to like think about it yeah well now you can do it in messages message also got any emojis now a tap back in messages that I actually think is very exciting people are super stoked about that you can make your words jitter and shake and explode right things the other do you guys use that stuff like do you I find I use the tap backs all the time and that's about the only kind of wacky iMessage feature I use consistently except the birthday balloons I love the birthday I rock the balloons every time.

1:03:31I forget about them and I see them. They're very good. Oh, that was nice. I always forget about them until I'm like, oh, congratulations. Oh, I get fireworks. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm very excited about the ability to use any emoji as a tap pack. Yeah. I think that's going to be pretty good. Effectively, now you just have emoji responses, which every other platform supports. Whereas being like, ha ha, I'm just like, this is too sarcastic. Yeah. Right. It's like I use the thumbs up and the bang bang for way too many things. I mean, I use the ha-ha when I'm not truly engaged in the conversation. Yeah, that's what I mean.

1:04:02But I'm like, oh, but that was funny. Point. It's the you tried of emoji reactions. I don't have any more energy for this. I got nothing. It makes you a dick whether or not you want to be one. Like, it's not. So I'm very excited to expand the range. Blood tears is my favorite. Yeah. Oh, you're not going to be able to get custom emojis. I think blood tears might be a custom emoji just in our Slack instance. If you want to know what it's like working in the Verge, often I reply with a picture of a smiley face crying blood. It's true. It's super useful. It expresses so much about what we do here.

1:04:34More than ha-ha. More than ha-ha. Just way more than ha-ha. Okay, starting today, ha-ha means blood tears. Tell everybody. Just make it happen. Tell your friends. We're just going to make this a thing now. You see these words, it means I'm crying blood. I mean sometimes the jokes yeah that's that is a feeling yeah yeah all right let's keep moving we got more platforms to do here uh you don't talk about game mode yeah what's a game mode there you just did that's welcome to game you can now play five-year-old video games poorly on your computer and there's a new it's on the phone whatever the new assassin's creed you can play your phone on your computer now we're gonna talk about apple announcing games from 2017 when we get to the sorry game mode prioritizes wireless performance of controllers on your iphone okay there done great congratulations to all of your wireless controllers let's move on the next platform and this is not technically a platform by apple's definition but i think we should talk about it is photos because photos is like a hugely used app and they announced a bunch of stuff including a giant redesign that i would argue is not a particularly giant redesign it's just that They put a bunch of new albums in your photos app that I am suspicious of their usefulness.

1:05:51But now they exist. Yeah, it's very like memories forward. Like, it seems like the actual photos you're going to look for are just right up there with like, remember this time and here was this thing that happened. Look at all your dead pets. Yeah. Really, really enjoy them. I just remember like there was years ago at an iPad event. I think it was the iPad event they did in New York. They put up this marketing image that was a guy sitting like in a, in the crook of one of the supports on the Brooklyn bridge doodling on his iPad. Sure. And it's like, sure, this is like a normal thing a person does on their device.

1:06:28And every time Apple shows new photos features, I think of that guy sitting on the Brooklyn bridge because it's like this thing where there is a whole album of just all your awesome pictures from yesterday. It's like, no, I don't have any awesome pictures from yesterday. day like i have a bunch of accidental screenshots i have receipts from the plane and i have a picture of my toddler that is the same picture that i take of my toddler that's blurry and weird every single day like i don't need this apple and all of these things are made for like extremely interesting worldly beautiful people who take thousands of photos of themselves every day and i think none of those people exist in the actual world it makes me crazy they exist on instagram They do exist on Instagram.

1:07:10But they try. Most people are just using their phones to take photos. But I do think the idea that the app is now memory forward is fascinating. Because it does imply you're taking more photos and videos than ever. And it's hard to find them. And the device should sort them for you. Which I buy in theory. It's good logic. Yeah. I mean, I don't use Google Photos as my camera roll. Do you? I mean, like on my iPhone. No, I use the Photos app. Right. And I think the sort of conflation of the photos app with the camera roll is like fighting against Apple's goals here, which is to compete with Google Photos and other apps like Google Photos.

1:07:45And so it's just like at some point, I just need to see all the photos I took in a list. Google Photos right now actually is the most infuriating feature is it insists on stacking your photos for you. Oh, I hate that. And it's like, you took five of these frames. It's like, yeah, I know. I would like to see all five of them. I would like to see them. I don't want you to pick one. And I think it gets weird when you think of the Photos app as actually your camera roll and not this memory playground. Well, I wonder also how much of this is the fact that we all review devices. What do you mean? Do most people take screenshots?

1:08:18Yes. Okay. All the time. On purpose? All the time. I take a lot of accidental screenshots. That's real. But I also take a lot of on purpose screenshots. I know people who have 10 ,000 screenshots. in their phone, just like things, conversations, disappearing messages, Snapchats, like all the stuff, like anything that happens in your phone, the easiest, fastest way to capture a screenshot. So you can actually do some segmenting and making that stuff searchable and filterable from the rest. Like there's a lot of good intent in this app and I think the way it looks is like ever, it's even more complicated than it's ever been before.

1:08:53But I also think it is prettier than it's ever been. Like if you think of where we started with iPhotos to now. Gorgeous app compared to iPhotos, right? Sure. Yeah. I care about that. No, I agree. It has gotten a lot better. And I think as a like management system, it makes sense that this is kind of what they're trying to do. It just seems like this idea of we are going to constantly repackage your photos and shove them at you feels like the wrong answer to me. Yeah. But I do think some of the stuff they're doing, like, they, I think, said the exact same you can find your driver's license or your license plate in your photos.

1:09:31The identical demo to Google, which is just like, this is everybody's idea. The driver's license. The driver's license. Okay. Google's was your license plate, right? Right. So, you're, yeah. It was, what is my license plate now? Slightly different. Totally different features. Two phones in order to get all your information. And then I'll know everything about my vehicle. Well, the demo, they are slightly different. They were ever so slightly different. Google was you just asked it. You just like ask Google Photos what my license plate number was. I like told you the answer. This one was you were in a web form and said, enter your driver's license number.

1:10:02And like the Apple intelligence would go and get it and like enter it for you. That's cool. Slightly different demos. Sure. Same exact result. Correct. You filled out a meaningless number of form. Welcome to the AI future. Just a bunch of weird UI affordances. You are going to throw robots at the DMV until the DMV submits. My tax is paid for this shit. Yeah, it was perfect. So that's photos. iPad, which I think was a weird one in that it was both incredibly disappointing and also the single coolest demo of the day by a pretty wide margin. I ended the iPad session by saying I'm sorry. Overwhelmingly what I felt at the end of that.

1:10:45Why did you think that was cool? The math? The math thing was awesome. Just the calculator. Just the single, just in terms of like, holy God, this is cool technology. Just the thing where he's writing down an equation in notes and he writes the equal sign and it just does it in his handwriting. That rips. And another one that I'm like, does this help anyone with anything in reality that exists? I don't know. Where they did the table tennis algebra and then he was like, make a graph of velocities. Yeah. Distance over velocity. He's just doing stuff on Chromebooks now. Like, it's fine. But it was awesome technology.

1:11:17And yet I think, and I'm curious if this is your. the calculator app? Listen, it was awesome. Look, they spent 14 years to make the best jam. People walked into this thinking iPads were going to come out of WWDC running macOS, and you're like, the calculator app did... A thing that is important to say is that the biggest cheer by a wide margin at this year's WWDC was for the calculator app for iPad. Do with that what you will, but it was not close. People saw algebra being done by a computer, and they're like, finally. yeah but i found this one so fascinating because it was like we got the new ipad pro and the new ipads what like a month ago two months ago times whatever uh everybody was like okay this is a device waiting for amazing software and like wwdc is coming this is going to be the one and we just super duper didn't get it yeah like just not even a little bit at all and i don't know if you guys felt this way being in there, but the energy in the room was the lowest as he was describing like share play improvements on the iPad.

1:12:24When he got to, we've added some UI improvements to the iPad and everyone thought it would be like a windowing system. He was like floating tab bar. And then he said the word morph five times in, just seamlessly morphs into the sidebar. I don't know if you've seen anything more famously The robot in Terminator 2 morphs The video for Michael Jackson's black and white Some of the first morphing ever done He turns into a tiger Nothing about this hit on the level of Michael Jackson Turning into a tiger in the video for black and white This was like absolute zero, zero response to this morphing It was The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, I think emotional reactions from everybody in that room.

1:13:09Nothing on this hit the level of the White Ranger coming back. You know what I'm saying? It's an impossible bar. Impossible bar. Nobody else? I'm just surprised you know that much about the White Ranger. I grew up in a time of morphing. These are core childhood memories. Morphing was very popular in the 90s. A lot of late 90s, early 2000s culture really revolved around morphing. And I'm just saying, the guy, he said, watch the tab bar seamlessly morph into the sidebar. I was like, yeah, it is baby morphing. We should move on, but I just want to say, if you ever write like a Sufjan Stevens style album, I grew up in a time of morphing is the title of your single.

1:13:52It's just oddly prevalent. Allison's with me, she knows. Yeah, there was a lot of morphing. There was morphing. They were mighty. only only one verb in there

1:14:08yeah um all right let's move on that's enough for the ipad the ipad still disappointing now with calculator uh i put watch os next but it's really a tie between we say two things there are two things one they announced the most important feature of all for anyone who has a parent with an ipad you can now uh take over their screen oh so when you're facetiming with them. You can share play and they're like, what am I doing? You can draw on their screen to call their attention to something you want them to do, or you can just do it. That's cool. Killer feature. Yeah, that's a good feature. Absolutely killer feature.

1:14:39And then the weird dynamic handwriting font thing they're doing, SmartScript, where you draw on it and it smooths out your handwriting, but then also sort of creates handwriting for you. It's unclear whether there's like a system-wide typeface or it just has a model of your handwriting that you can now copy and paste. You can paste, you can copy text from somewhere else, paste it into a document in your handwriting. That's pretty awesome. You're right. Couldn't you do that on like a Surface device five years ago? Yeah. But now it's on the iPad. Look, they didn't add Windows. They added a morphing taskbar and you get smart.

1:15:14They were like, we're going to set the bar real low. It's very low. And then we're going to go slightly lower. People thought they were going to run macOS on their iPads coming out of this event. Those people were not correct. And David got a calculator. You know what's ironic? All the algebra you do at work. This is actually, this is a good segue into the next one. Let's do Mac OS next because what we actually got is much closer to the exact opposite of getting Mac OS on your iPad. We got iPhones on your Mac. Yes. Mac OS Sequoia. How do you feel about Sequoia? It's like a name. It's fine. It's a name.

1:15:46I've live logged for like 10 years, 15 years now. And when Craig does the bit about the name, I literally just like take a break. Yeah. cracked my knuckles i'm like you're gonna it's a name it's gonna be a mountain yeah they did or didn't get high it's fine uh but yeah the big things we should talk about iphone mirroring because this is one of those things that this is the big thing uh apple probably didn't expect to be as exciting to people as it was but is very exciting and i think is like gonna be a huge deal yeah i mean they're missing a key interface element you mean a digital crown It took the world by storm.

1:16:26It's right up there. It's the click wheel, digital crown. It's the trackpad. Three most important devices. No, they don't have a touchscreen. It's like bananas. I can mirror a phone onto your Mac without a touchscreen. But I think the basic idea that people want to use their phone, there's a bunch of apps on your phone that did not sign up for the Mac App Store when the Mac went to Apple Silicon, which they really thought would happen. It did not happen. How are you going to get the Instagram app on your Mac? How are you going to do it? Was it Catalyst that was supposed to bring all that stuff across?

1:16:55Catalyst was iPad apps being remapped into Mac apps. Okay. But now you can just run iOS apps on Apple Silicon Mac. Straight up, no porting. The Bluetooth lights in the studio at my house have a horrible iPhone app, and it's the only app that has ever I've been like, I wonder if that's here. And it's there because they don't care. Instagram is like, no, we're not letting you do this. TikTok is like, we're not letting you do this. We're not making you a Mac app. You can just mirror your iPhone. And it's just the most brute force. We're just horsepowering this screen onto that screen. Solve the problem.

1:17:31The app's still running on the phone. It's very cool. I think it will work. I think people are going to use it all the time. The coolest part, I don't know if you guys saw this, the notifications get remapped. So your iPhone notifications show up on your Mac. As Mac notifications? As Mac notifications. when you click them and it'll pop open the iPhone mirroring and drop you into the iPhone. I mean, I'm nervous about that. I already don't like how many notifications I get on my iPhone. I'm like, are they going to be on my computer now too? Yeah, so like AP News loves to push a breaking notification for everything.

1:18:03Is that just going to pop up on my Mac? Well, supposedly now, thanks to the magic of AI, all of your notifications are going to be sorted by priority, which couldn't possibly go wrong or be gamed by any systems because Apple has historically done such a good job of managing those applications. Growl back. Like that's, that's all you got to do. No, they Sherlock the hell out of groud. I know they Sherlocked it, but like they didn't make anything better. No, that's not what you do when you use your dominant monopoly to kill your competition. It's not the choice you're making, but I am, I am excited about like the iPhone thing just because I'll be able to never have to get off my couch again when I need to like log into something.

1:18:42that needs two-factor authentication. That's why you get an Apple Watch. Oh, that's a good one. You all think the Apple Watch is a health and fitness device? I think of this as a two-factor dongle. Does it have like... It shames me from time to time. Does it have the authenticators on it? Oh, yeah. I use OctaVerify and Authy on it. Well, I'm gonna... Thanks to you, actually, because you have been proselytizing this for years. We don't use any of those services. We use other ones. This was not a security hole. I don't have any of those on my watch. We use the new Apple password. I'm downloading them right now.

1:19:13This is a two-factor dongle that will occasionally shame you for not standing up, and it's fine. It works. But that thing where they added more iPhone to the Mac, deeply funny. Oh, yeah. They also, we talked a lot about Siri in the AI section. They changed the way Siri looks and works on the Mac to make it more powerful, to give it more of these text inputs. But they didn't change much. The big other feature that got a lot of cheers in the Mac section was automatic window tiling, which Windows has had for 100 years. I have used it so much on Windows and I have an app on my computer that I like when they announced it, I was like, but I thought we already had that.

1:19:48Yeah, it's it's one of those features that it is truly bonkers. It didn't have already. And there are a million apps out there that are free and great for window tiling and will do it better than Sequoia, I'm sure. So go use those. I use one called Rectangle. It's very good. That's a good name for an app. It is. It's very good. It's very good. And it's free and it's wonderful and everybody should use it. But this, it's, yeah, there's so many things in here that are just like Apple sort of slowly checking off boxes of like features. It's insane that have not been here for a decade. Yeah. And that's fine.

1:20:20I'll take it. A lot of people have asked me how to feel, I guess. About Safari. About Safari. And the fact that it has AI summaries built into it now, which is, I know you two love ARK, but a lot of people have feelings about ARK doing that in different ways. Feelings about perplexity doing that in different ways. This one feels much more innocuous because you're browsing the web and it is loading the web pages. I mean, I have it turned off in Arc. I always forget that it's there. You just like Arc. Yeah, I just love Arc. But that distinction you made, I think, is actually really important and is the whole thing, right?

1:20:54Like Apple's way of doing this is you go to a web page and then AI can do things to that web page. Yeah. And like a bunch of it is really clever, right? It's like if you're looking for important information on a web page, it will help you surface it. Like if you ever go to like a restaurant website and you look for the phone number, impossible. And this is like, it will just find you the phone number. Like that's good, but you're already on the website, right? And so now all you're doing is you're solving for awful web design, which I'm fully in favor of. AI should destroy bad web design. But it flips the equation of the thing.

1:21:27Like it's not going to the webpage and then returning information on my behalf. I am going to the webpage and then asking it for information. To be clear, we have not used this to any great extent. No. We've seen some demos. People have the private betas and they're publishing about it, so people are talking about it. But I think there's going to be a lot of back and forth between, hey, this web browser is now doing a lot of summary. You have a big partner with OpenAI, which not everyone is so happy with. Disclosure, our company has a content deal with OpenAI. Cool. I don't know if we have one with anyone else.

1:22:01um but like i think a lot of a lot of the safari work at one point the person who's presenting safari was like if you haven't used it you should try it it got pretty good yeah it's like oh boy you need to get this back like yeah you gotta get this back on track so they're adding some features to it because as david has been covering an installer like browser wars are back there's like a bunch of very interesting browsers because of ai features and so i think apple needs to capture some of that yeah and the like the reader mode updates that it got was cool readers another one that it's like nobody's mad at reader mode even though it strips everything out because you have to load the web page like it's that's just the whole thing and the there's now the what's it called they call it the viewer mode where it'll just pop up a video that's on the page if you want to watch the video and give you like native picture-in-picture and viewing controls that's very awesome love it it's making bad websites better unbelievable huge fan make me go to the website right the problem with all the other browsers like you'll stop browsing the web right and then there's no more incentive to make web and i think apple's trying to walk the line here yeah yeah but i'm i'm again yeah there's a lot of questions but i'm kind of in favor is does anyone sitting here use safari with any regularity i do do you like on purpose yeah for until i'm switched to arc i would do like edge is my work browser and safari was my personal browser I tried to keep the work separate so what I've learned about you in this podcast so far you are a devoted Mac user who loves Outlook and Edge make better mail and web browser use other devices yeah I have you heard about these AI PCs you love being watched by big corporations the surface is tight dude you were also on this podcast not long ago being like oh what Apple wants to do is build a surface you can just have one I know, but I don't want it.

1:23:51I want Apple to do what I want it to. You just want to ug up your iPhone. Yeah. It's like people in America are so confused about competition. Yeah. They're like, I'll just yell at Apple until it makes me the product I want. I won't just buy the product that exists. Exactly. Party is the thing I want. That's why I'm in the job I'm in. So I can yell everywhere. Can we spend two seconds talking about gaming and then talk about passwords? Literally two seconds. Okay. Apple announced a bunch of games. That's it. Sorry. Time's done. I just want to announce, they're like, you can now play Death Stranding on a Mac that came out in 2019.

1:24:24The Assassin's Creed game. One that is coming out, that's true, but another one that came out in 2019. And then the big finale was Control, now with ray tracing. Control was the game of the year in, like, 2017. Yeah, Control is a game that everybody just uses to show off ray tracing because it has really good ray tracing. Like, that's kind of why it exists in most people's computers now. Control is at the point where you open the PlayStation Store on the right day. It's like, do you just want Control? Yeah, do you. It's really good. You should try it out. The Ubisoft stuff was interesting. It did feel like Apple is trying to kind of force its way back into the gaming conversation.

1:25:02I mean, it's been doing it for the last three or four years. But having the Ubisoft guy on stage, having the new games come out on the iPad, on the Mac, day and date, that's not nothing. Wait, I got this wrong. Control is a game of the year contender in 2019. The Assassin's Creed game came out in 2017. I'm sorry. Apologies to everyone. Yeah, they're all old. But also, this does... I was a different person. This was before the pandemic. It was pre-COVID. It was old. I was breathing on people every day. This does continue Assassin's Creed's perfect streak of being available on every platform invented by anyone ever.

1:25:43If you have a computer and you're like, can I stab someone on this computer? Ubisoft is there. They're like, yes. In a little French accent. The new one is in feudal Japan. All right. That's, that's too much game mode talk. Let's talk about watch OS briefly. This is the one I am perhaps least qualified to talk about because I just went in and turned off all of the fitness notifications on my watch because they were making me sad. Do you want to stand up? And I was like, no, I'm on a call. Leave me alone, Apple. But there's like, Like if you're a fitness person and Allison, you're wearing a watch and seem like a fitness person.

1:26:16There's a lot of new stuff here. This thing is like a super intense health and fitness device. Now it's getting serious. I will say and we'll give this shout out for our colleague V song that you can now finally tell Apple you're taking a rest day. Or like you're sick. You're not going to go do your little jog or whatever. I think V sobbed. Yeah. Like I could feel it. I could feel her, you know, energy. V was typing in our Slack when this got launched and was typing in all caps so fast she was just making thousands of typos. Yeah. Pure joy. But yeah, so you can now take rest days. You can also change your goals day to day throughout the week, which I think is very clever.

1:26:56There's a new Vitals app that'll track new stuff on your body. If I explain it more than that, I will immediately sound as dumb as I am about all of this. You can rate the effort of a workout. It's basically like this is all just health inputs and outputs, right? That is what this device is now. It felt like they added a bunch of stuff that other folks have been doing, like Aura Ring has been doing it. Garmin has been doing it. Especially the health stuff, like Aura has been all over that. And it was like, oh, we've got all those sensors. We've, in fact, got better sensors. We could probably do that.

1:27:28And Apple has just been really weird about it before now. Well, they've been in a pretty healthy lawsuit, the company. That's probably why. That's probably why. but so so it's it's nice to see that yeah you'll be able the rest days is the big one though i think i think that was what the one like i was seeing on threads even everybody was just like yeah that was the one that people asked that forever yeah because yeah sometimes you feel like garbage and your watch is like you haven't moved at all today you piece of shit yeah and you're like because i feel like garbage thanks mom like leave me alone and it seems to get like meaner and meaner as time goes on like if you get to like day three of not closing all your rings your watch is just so disappointed in you yeah it's like yeah you get the message it's like you didn't close any rings yesterday like let's just try for one today i'm like i'm sorry what's the bare minimum you can give me what if you did anything today and i'm like i just didn't even have my watch on yesterday leave me alone stand ring we're gonna go for stand ring once an hour yeah just stand up i'm gonna put my goal to three hours today let's go apple it's good um all right let's burn through the last ones then we can take a break uh airpods we talked a little bit about the airpods you nod head shake nod very good uh unbelievably unconvinced that that works but if it does very excited uh there are a lot of people out there who uh are trying to make that stuff work turns out you move your head a lot i don't know if you've noticed but like in just being a person in the world you move ahead your head a lot and so figuring those gestures out i hope it's the the same way like when you talk to your computer or you use a voice you have like your computer voice I hope you have to like have a computer head nods so you're just like walking down the street doing these really dramatic head nods that would be ideal which is definitely better than talking to yourself yeah yeah not not weird to just constantly be walking down the street in both cases you'll probably get the car to yourself on the subway I was walking on the street in Philadelphia the other day and a woman rode behind her bike and she just goes hey Siri really loud and i was like literally like a lot of people stopped because that was just a weird thing to happen and i said out loud the person i was walking with i've never seen anyone do that in the wild before and they're like that was special and that we had like everyone's like the whole street had a moment because she was like i'm gonna talk to siri while i'm just biking it's hard to do in public because you're like i'm always like hey sir you gotta know she just philly man with her whole chest the whole i love that philly that's where that's where you can just do it yeah there are some towns in america where you can just address your voice assistant yeah the airpods pros they're getting better like phone calls to mic voice isolation yeah which is a feature that has existed for a long time and is deeply buried in settings on all of your devices this is like a thing you can do on phone calls now and it makes you sound so much better and it has always driven me crazy that apple doesn't just turn it on by default but it's a thing that exists on the mac It's a thing that exists on the iPhone, but you have to turn it on for every single call, like in the middle of the call.

1:30:23And that's very stupid. And so the fact that it's just on now, there's also the personalized spatial audio, which, you know, Nealai's favorite feature, so that everyone can sneak up on you during your phone calls. Yeah, that's what you want. But no, I'm into it. The AirPods. They did it. Yeah, they're still AirPods. No more AirPods Maxes. I really thought that we were going to get AirPods today. Either it was going to be a HomePod or a new AirPods Max's, and they were going to make a whole serious story out of it. Nothing. Whatever one thought was that they were going to add macOS to the iPod, and the AirPods would be the focus of all the AI efforts.

1:30:55All of you people were disappointed. So we got a calculator out, and it was sick. tvOS we have covered several times. We'll just move on from there. We're getting a new season. We added 21.9 projector support to tvOS, okay? This is the next hour of the versions. i'm moving on uh to speaking of the next hour of the verge cast vision os i will not name names uh a friend of ours friend of the show came up to us and they're like so they're just giving up on the vision pro and they this person looked bereft bereft that's sad uh and i was like no i think they just they announced four months ago i don't think they had anything left in the tank and like they're giving up on it.

1:31:41Wes Davis was going through all of the updates and he's like, oh, what they didn't say on stage was that they are fixing a ton of bugs and issues he's had with it. Because he's like the one person on stage. He loves it. He loves it. God bless him. He's always like, you want to FaceTime? I'm like, absolutely not. Put that in the fire. But yeah, so apparently there's doing a bunch of updates to it, but they just didn't talk about any of that. They did not, because I think you have to know what is broken about the Vision Pro. in order to appreciate the fixes. Yeah. And most people don't know anything about the Vision Program.

1:32:13And they're like, we're not spending time on that. Because as David is fond of reminding us, it costs$3 ,500. Seven out of 10, baby. Here we go. I stand by my review now more than ever, actually. Not the score, but the review. No, I think it's right. And I think we have continued to find what is that it's better out here than in there. But they did add, they're adding more immersive videos. They're going to release more stuff. They're releasing it in more countries, which actually got a huge cheer. That expands the market. Canon's making a special lens just for the R9, which Allison, I'm curious if you ever read on this.

1:32:44Oh my God. I totally like blanked that out. It looked like, wasn't there a moment where some company was making a 3D lens for the camera? Yeah. Like Fujifilm, I think did the like, you know, when 3D was going to be the next thing. They're like, here's a camera lens that will shoot 3D photos for you. And I was like, we're doing it again. Yeah. I can't tell if the EOS R9, It was specifically the camera they called out has a sensor or a processing system that can take the split image, right? Because what they're doing is they're making a right and left image and then combining it somewhere. So I'm wondering if the camera has some setting, but the Canon is making a lens for one camera.

1:33:25It's not just a Canon lens like you would expect. It's for this one camera. So now you can shoot Apple immersive with this one camera. Is it the R9 or the R7? Was it the R7? Duren says it was the R7. Viren's already bought the lens. No? Oh my gosh. Live fact checking. Maybe I just typed it wrong in the live vlog. Now I'm sure. Yeah, again, I would say this is indicative of how important this actually is to the world. But I think this is really wild because there's not enough content for this headset. Right. So they spent a lot of time talking about just like how they're building out the content pipelines for the Canon EOS R7.

1:34:05Thank you, Viren. yeah no it's true it's very clear that Apple thinks content is the thing yep and they announced like new environments new ways to look at the spatial photos like new tools for showing this stuff it's very obvious to me that the two things they're seeing people do in this are use it as a monitor which is why they announced the new ultra wide monitor which looked awesome I'm confident will not look like that in actual use but the idea of having one giant like wall sized monitor in front of you kicks ass and I want it very badly. I am very excited to see if that means macOS will now support ultra-wides, curved ultra-wides.

1:34:43That's interesting. Because right now if you get one of the crazy Samsungs, they just don't work very well. It would be hysterical if it only works with the Vision Pro. It would be perfectly on brand. If you could get a giant curved ultra-wide in the$35 headset, but that same resolution could not be displayed on an actual monitor. Just beautiful. Yeah. We'll see. But people did cheer for that. It is the thing they're using it for. But yeah, I think that just means we're adding more display resolutions to the Mac, which would be good because there's a class of monitors that you really can't use very well with Mac right now.

1:35:15Yeah. Well, and with that, that's the last we're going to hear of the Vision Pro for a pretty long time, I think. But anyway, can I, in my continuing quest to describe the what is a photo apocalypse, they added a feature. Right now you can shoot spatial audio, right now you can shoot spatial video and photos with your iPhone. I don't think you should do it because it actually really reduces the quality of especially in low light so the files are monstrous yeah and you can only look at them in a headset yeah it's just like not worth it right now but uh they are adding a feature where it can spatialize your regular photos which means it is creating a bunch of synthetic data for your eyes to look at out of one photo yep so you've got a left eye vision and it's going to make a right eye or you've got a right eye or whatever it's doing it's just going to create a little bit of a depth map and it's going to just synthesize some information that super wasn't there in the photo is this the greatest what is a photo crime no it is not is it super weird that we're all just racing headlong into the future of synthetic imagery and being like that's fun yeah but that's stuff they've been doing on like tvs for ages right when they do the auto upscaling and stuff Isn't that the same thing where they're just adding pixels?

1:36:30Well, no. So auto upselling is, you know, you take like a 720 image and you just like make it bigger. Yeah. And you get a bunch of stuff in there. This is. And like, that's still right. You're right. That's happening. But you're adding pixels like in a 2D plane. Yeah. This is they're going to add a 3D image. So you're going to get another angle from like assume the picture again is your left eye. you're going to get another angle on the same image and you're going to see like a little bit of the side of someone's head. I cannot wait to look at a little bit of the side of Alison's head, but an AI Alison said.

1:37:05Yeah. You're just going to have like four ears. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be great. It's just like one of those things where you're like, Oh, huh. They're just doing that. They're going to totally synthesize another image for you to look at to create a 3d effect. That image never existed. It did not happen. He did not capture it. This computer is just going to confidently tell you, this is what your other eye would have seen. And you're going to be like, huh, that's weird. It's a weird thing that's happening. I will say, I know people, Liam is always on me for endlessly going on about what is a photo.

1:37:33I ruthlessly used the generative eraser in my room the other day to take people out of the background of a photo of my daughter. I'm as conflicted as you are. I am but a man. How did it make you feel? Do you look at that photo differently now? I felt awesome. I do look at the photo differently because I know what I did. but I don't know that most people have a feeling of shame when they're done using Lightroom. Generative shame is a whole thing we're not even going to put. They should mark it as shame. We're about to, by the way, have a big story. Jess Weatherbett is working on it. Regular photographers are now running into the reality that any use of AI tools appends a watermark, which then Instagram will just say made with AI, and people have real feelings about that label.

1:38:15It's the Virgius Virg story that exists, but Jess is working on it. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all the platforms. There's a lot we didn't get to. I suspect we will talk a lot more about this, both like on Friday and for the rest of our lives. But it was a lot. Like, it was a big. It was a lot. A big day. And I think it was a funny one because in another world, just that run of platforms would have been a two hour. That's right. At the end of it, I was like, are they done? Yeah. And as it was, they just blew through it. Like, I think one of the things we're going to see over the next few days, because the developer betas are out, we're going to learn about so many things that didn't even come up or get mentioned.

1:38:50They're not in blog posts. They weren't on the bentos. Like, there's a lot of stuff in these platforms. The bentos are getting surprisingly less dense. Yeah, they're very sparing now. I think Apple should repack those with information. I think just like a plain text screen. Yeah, here's a list of stuff. Yeah, just full changelog. That's it. We should take a break. You don't want to talk about games some more? No. I don't want to play Assassin's Creed on any of my Apple devices. Leave me alone about it. All right, we'll be right back. Support for this show comes from 1Password. Think for just a moment about the Herculean tasks that your IT security department has to handle.

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1:41:58300 sensors. Over a million data points per second. How does F1 update their fans with every stat in real time? AWS is how. From fastest laps to strategy calls, AWS puts fans in the pit. It's not just racing. It's data-driven innovation at 200 miles per hour. AWS is how leading businesses power next-level innovation. All right, we're back. Welcome back to our show. So we're ending with a lightning round. Unsponsored. Sponsored by the EOS R9. By the way, I would like to thank the very many people who have sent me photos of the Sony ULT speakers in the wild. One person was like, I was in Best Buy and I had to go look for myself.

1:42:48Amazing. Hit the button. Enter the ULT era. They have not sponsored lightning round. I'm just giving this away. But it's lightning round. We're going to do something special here to end. We're going to go around. We're going to say what our two favorite features of WWDC were. And these are like features we will use. Features we will use. Okay. And frustratingly, we picked them before the show. Yeah. Where we all took stands against one another's opinions. Couldn't change it. Not allowed. We're not allowed to change it as we came back in from break. Kranz, let's begin with you. I'm very worried about your choices.

1:43:21Yeah, mine. You and HR are probably going to be very worried because Jidmoji and Image Playground are at the top of my list. Oh, Lord. I have no artistic ability and the ability to make a horse with 12 butts just sounds weird. I want to see what happens. It's a really interesting, no artistic ability and terrible person. It's like a really fascinating combination. But also wildly creative. Yeah. Like if you were like, I have no artistic ability, I'm a bad person, but I couldn't imagine a horse with 12 butts. Like, fine. Go about today. Fran's just like, I got ideas. I want to see. I want to see what happens.

1:43:57so I'm super excited about that. We'll see how long I'm allowed to be excited about it before Apple just shuts me off. Who shut you down at the server level? We got the kill switch in iOS? Fire. As soon as I log in, they're like, nope, that's not for you. Execute. But it's going to be sick. And then my other one I've talked about already is the ugly dark mode apps. Crayons, oh my God. You've seen my Slack now. You know, I just, I want everything. I want all of my devices when I turn them on for you to go again why don't you use Windows and Android which from the base levels of the operating system are designed to be this ugly it's too easy you're not a hacker if you're not hacking by using the system level it feels like hacking when it's on iOS alright Kranz everybody David what are you my two I changed it because I want to talk about two things you changed yours yeah but who can remember what my last one was now it's been too long there were rules I changed it mid show not during the break so it was fine I changed it while you were talking about something or other yeah you were like oh Assassin's Creed and I just started typing you know they shot Control in 2017 my first one my first one is uh weirdly just like a throw in at the end of wwdc which i actually that was very exciting it's transcription and ai summarization in the voice memos and also the phone app and also the phone app yeah so exciting which is like this is the kind of thing that like if you're a reporter is life-changing and if you're a real person is just like sort of whatever but for me like i spend a lot of time talking into things and being talked at on those same things and having a decent recorder is amazing.

1:45:52Like you use a pixel recorder, Alison, I know, because that is like a magical little piece of software at all times. And this feels like it might do the same thing. And I'm very excited about that fact. Yeah. Uh, so that's awesome. Also, maybe the thing that AI is the most consistently good at is transcription and summarization. So like sold, love it. I'll take it. Uh, the other one is all of the organization stuff in mail, which I am more excited about as time goes on because nia is making a face at me which is fair he's just thinking mime stream i'm just i'm like this man who has to run installer and he has to pretend all software is interesting so no it's that all email apps for iphone are bad yeah which is just a fact of the world solved problem on the mac mime stream is excellent everybody should use MimeStream, love it to death.

1:46:42There are no good email apps for the iPhone. And before you hear this or see this and send me one, don't. I've tried it. It sucks. They're all bad. But this thing that Apple did, which is basically just launched Gmail. Yeah. They have an update staff, like the whole thing. Yeah. They do the categorization. They're doing some AI summarization. You can use the tools to rewrite your emails like we were talking about earlier. I'm going to go back to using Apple Mail again because it is like useful. The problem with Apple Mail has always been that search sucks, which I assume is still the case. And it doesn't have the split inboxes in Gmail, which I've actually now come to rely on.

1:47:19They're not very good, but they're better than just dumping everything into your one inbox. And at least when I go to promotions, it's like mostly stuff I don't want. And when I go to updates, it's like mostly newsletters and receipts. Again, not perfect, but pretty good. And if Apple can do that stuff even that well, it immediately becomes the best email app on the iPhone, like by a mile. And so I'm cautiously optimistic. I just, the Gmail app is so bad. I want to believe for you. It's so bad. It's not good. Yeah. That's why you got to use Outlook. No. Can I tell you what sucks about Outlook?

1:47:51Everything. Well, A, everything. B, it's very slow. But C, when you open an email, the archive button, which is the only button that matters on an email app, is all the way at the top right of the screen where it is completely unreachable no matter how you hold your phone. Ridiculous. You archive them? Do you just leave them? Oh, you're, oh, crap. I'm discovering I hate you in this episode. Don't worry about my little number. You have like 12 ,000, don't you? No, it's fine. You read it, then mark it as unread for the chaos and then go about your business, don't you? Yeah, like sometimes I'll be like, oh, that's spam.

1:48:24I'll leave it unread so I can feel one day. No. One. Oh, that hurts my soul. Yes, that's the way they do it. Second, the Gmail app has actually solved this by way of a bug that is still not fixed, which is sometimes when you open an email from the notification on the Gmail app for iOS, it just deletes the email. I've noticed this. And it's just like, how do you get here? How did you arrive at this state, Google? For all that AI, I bet what you wanted to do was immediately delete this email that you actually chose to take an action on. Then action was deleted. And that's how I hit inbox zero. Congratulations.

1:49:03That's really exciting. Yeah. Reading it is not important to getting to inbox zero. I no longer. I just want the robot to summarize the email. I can't believe you picked fucking mail out. I honestly, the more I think about it, the more excited I am. But also the thing where you can now group by sender. So I'm like the one time you go to a restaurant and then they send you an email every day for the rest of your life. Going and clicking the unsubscribe button, too much work. Doing it in Gmail doesn't work. That's just a lie that they tell you. but now you can group them and just delete them all at once.

1:49:30I like that. I'm excited. I'm excited for the same idea everyone else has which is like you're planning a trip and all the emails from your trip are going to be a little digest of trip emails. Love it. Great. I'm super excited for you in MailAge. Thank you. It's going to be an awesome like six days and then somebody will update their app again and I'll be like maybe they fixed it and they didn't but I will try it again. You've got a problem and it's fine because it keeps you writing. I do it for work now. Allison, what are you getting some saying? Yeah. All right. What are yours, Allison? Mine are messaging related.

1:50:06I am, because I test a lot of Android phones, I am usually the person on Android in the group chat. Do you turn iMessage on when you test an iPhone and then off when you stop? Yeah. Does it ruin your life every time you do that? Kind of. Like, possibly I have missed out on friendships, you know, things happening. I don't know. When you de-enroll from iMessage, you miss messages for days. Yeah, yeah. It's insane. I think there's people I just don't talk to anymore. Because they probably try to message me. No, I do this. I do it with RCS. So, yeah, RCS and iMessage is going to fix everything for me.

1:50:47I feel really good about it. That's even more optimistic than David picking mail at it. I love this. Well, you can send high-resolution photos now. the photos because like right now when in the group chat we're sharing photos of our kids doing cute things and i have to be like i'm sorry i'm screwing up the the high you know the quality of the images here can you just send them to my husband or can we put them in a group there's so many google photos albums it's like oh god how are you on any group chats in tech i so i love the idea of everybody sending photos back and forth and then you just sending Google Photos links.

1:51:25Oh my God, yeah. Check out my cool photos. You have really good friends. I know. They are so patient with me. Those are some like rock solid. But you know what? There was one Android guy and he just switched to iPhone too. I was like, now it's just me. Yeah. So that's it. RCS is going to fix everything for me. I feel good about it. That is a good one. Yeah. And scheduling messages. Yes, that's a clutch one. It is iMessage only. I'm going to schedule so many messages for like seven minutes from now. Just so it's not like immediately thirsty, but like within 10 is too much. Right? Yeah. Seven, seven minutes from now.

1:52:06It fixes the like, oh, you just texted me and I'm going to text you right back. But that like seems weird. And then I'm going to forget about it and then never text you back. Those are the only two options that exist. Yeah. Honestly, I'm so glad you both just said that. This is my main problem as a person. Because I will read your message. And if I respond, if I am in the right headspace to respond to it, I'm very responsive. I'm ready. But if I do the thing where I put my phone down, we're done. I'm never, ever getting back to it. And I will just feel an increasing sense of guilt. Like, I could name you right now, off the top of my head, 15 people I owe text messages to who are never getting text messages from me.

1:52:42Do you read them? Name them now. This will be the greatest TikTok in the right-hand history. name the 15 people you know that you are supposed to under no circumstances but all of them know who they are which is the beauty of it uh and i'm just it's seven minutes right they should just add it as a default button send in seven minutes yeah yeah yeah send but be cool yeah this is like the swingers button uh all right it's i can't believe i picked hey neil What are yours? What are your picks? I picked one that I stand by, which is phone mirroring and remote iOS access for grandparent tech support.

1:53:25Game changers. Game changers all the way around. And that's it. Yeah. No, you had one more. What was it? At the time, I did not know what we were picking. I thought we were just picking some cool features. I did not know that I would create false conflict with David in the iPad segment. and I picked the calculator. Okay, Eli, I would like you to do the following. I would like you to right now make the case that the calculator app is the missing thing on the iPad and the iPad is now perfect and complete. I would like you to make that case right now. The problem with the iPad for the past 13 years has been its inability to do simple mathematics.

1:54:04I think as we've all known. And now you can.

1:54:13that was it i do want to say quickly just to pour one out for the app called solver yeah which is an awesome very cool very clever app where you can just like type out the math you're trying to do just like the bill is 65 there's four of us how much does everybody owe the 20 tip and it just answers your math questions like that apple just full sherlocked that app today No, because you would have to get out your iPad and start writing with a pencil at dinner. And I just don't think that's what's happening here. You're like, oh, do you want to sign the check? And you're like, not yet. Hold on. I've got to draw dinner.

1:54:51How much of the apps did you pay? I agree that they took a lot of those ideas. But yeah, I think Solver's fine. Because it's an iPhone app, right? Yeah. It's very good on the iPhone. It's unbelievable they're not adding any of these calculator features to the iPhone. It's like the iPhone and the iPad will never have the same calculator experience. The epiphany that I had during the live blog today was that everybody desperately wants the iPad to become a Mac. And what it actually is is an iPhone with a stylus. Yes. And to the extent that that changes what you can do on it, Apple is pushing really hard on that idea.

1:55:26That because there's a stylus, you can do new things. That's the whole bent of the iPad right now. When we get the folding. Yeah, exactly. It's going to be sick. When it folds. Yeah. It may well be. But it is like it is further and further away from being a Mac all the time. And then you can use your folding iPad on your computer because it will do iPhone mirroring. And then you plug in your Vision Pro and you get a giant ass monitor. Bringing it all together. We fixed it. I think I've never been more depressed about computers after that entire sequence. What? I actually think we saw a lot from Apple today, which indicates this company can actually have new ideas, which is sort of not been the case for a minute.

1:56:12Right. Like they're like, we added theming to iOS for grants. Great. Thank you. Stuff that other platforms have had forever. Even though all these AI features are kind of the same, like as everybody else, they've integrated into the operating system in better ways. have a better story to tell like here's why it's useful as opposed to like here's just the raw amount of compute that we can throw at a problem which is basically how google handles things but i come back to this thing about the ipad and so they still don't know why they make this thing they just don't know yeah it gets increasingly cool without ever getting yeah more itself yeah i think they make it because they sell them yeah and that's kind of and it's like they're They need to kickstart that somehow.

1:56:55Or do they? Because they sell them. That's true. I think my bold prediction here is the iPhone thing is heading towards a touchscreen on a Mac. Because if you put the iPhone's display on a Mac, there's one thing people are going to ask to start doing with it and start touching it. Swipe. Yeah. I just want to swipe TikTok in a tiny window on my Mac. I just want to respond to a Google notification directly on a mirrored iPhone window and immediately delete that message for no reason. it's the future all right is that it is that our show that's it since six hours long we have more we're gonna go through all the betas that we're seeing yep we'll run through additional features on friday what did i say it says monday today's monday for yeah for friday show we're gonna do sort of a cleanup because like i said there's been a ton of new stuff that we've seen if people have been installing the betas we have a lot more white paper reading to do work so we're gonna do a like everything we didn't talk about thing on friday's show so if there is stuff we didn't talk about if you work at another company don't make any news yeah oh my god please honestly i'm begging turn it off we have to talk about the stupid xbox and we have to talk about this so the show is done no more news this week all right that's it thank you for listening thank you allison for joining us we'll be back on friday with uh more of this which you love on all the platforms you love the most.

1:58:14Well, that's it. That's Vergecast Rock and Roll.

1:58:20And that's it for the Vergecast this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at 866-VERGE-11. The Vergecast is a production of The Verge and Vox Media Podcast Network. Our show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James. That's it. We'll see you next week.

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