Apple's Intelligence beta and more AI chaos

27:35It does. It does. It does. Super does. But it's true. The colors are more vibrant, which is getting away from what Apple is doing, or at least that's what the leaks indicate. So we're expecting a new Pixel 9, a Pixel 9 Pro, a Pixel 9 Pro Fold. My God, these names. And then a watch, right? Pixel Buds Pro 2 and a Pixel Watch 3. So that's a pretty complete refresh of the Pixel 9. it feels like the fold should be where the action is but i i just can't tell how much google cares about these devices that's the question isn't it it's so they moved the like the fold was on the product cycle with like it was at um io last time around right and then they've like scooched it so it's more part of the like main um refresh cycle which kind of makes sense.

28:30This is like, is this a flagship phone? It's like the most expensive phone you guys sell, but it's a cycle behind, you know, with the like camera hardware and whatnot. So I think it makes sense moving the fold into this position, but it's, it's a lot of phones. I don't know. Do we need this many phones? Like, how do you think it'll compare to, cause you know, Samsung, you said like their foldables are just basically coasting at this point. So are we at a point where like the pixel fold is something that is like, yay, competition? Or is that just, it's here? Yeah, I'm still of the mind that the OnePlus Open got it right.

29:16Like that is how a foldable, like a book style foldable should be shaped. And then Samsung is just committed to this like remote control shape thing. every year they're like it's a few millimeters like the screen is a few millimeters wider and it still feels like a remote control to use um so i'm curious how different this new pixel fold is because there's a lot of rumors that it's like thinner and lighter because boy was the previous one heavy um but i do like that that like wider aspect ratio for the cover screen um i don't think It needs to be quite as wide as the first-generation Pixel Fold.

29:58So we'll see. Yeah. And then the point of all this is going to be the software, right? This is pretty iterative hardware across the board, some minor camera tweaks, a wacky camera bump. But if you're not paying close attention, I think it's going to be fairly hard to distinguish the hardware from the previous generation. It's the software that's the game. So you can see they're adding Gemini sort of to the first layer of the interface. They've got this new thing called Pixel Screenshots, which is basically just Microsoft Recall, which everyone is scared about, only manual. So instead of constantly taking screenshots, you have to manually take a screenshot.

30:38Very good. A very good differentiation. But I'm kind of into it, right? You take a screenshot, you're like, what is this? You're like, save it for later. There's a chicken walking down the street. Just like, hold on to that for me. and then of course there's circle to search which google is adding to basically everything at this point i will i will coyly say that a friend of mine just put like circle to search to me in the face the other day you might imagine who that friend is who was showing me an android feature and he dunked on me uh with circle to search which was pretty funny but like this is them saying okay there's a new way to think about how this phone works right there's ai gemini's like right here and then you can just point at things or tell the phone to look at things and it will generate information for you, which is a very Google approach to it.

31:24The question is whether that's enough to make people switch, not even from the iPhone, from their Samsung phones, which obviously are dominant. And of course, because it's Google, whether they'll stay committed to any of those ideas for more than 20 minutes. And I just don't know. It's just a confusing time, I think. Even just circle to search, Like, and I use it on the Samsung phones I've been testing and the Google phones, obviously, but like, there's just kind of a lot of different ways to get at circle to search and you're like, so is this replacing these? Like Google lens is still a thing.

32:02I can translate something, but like, did I need to circle to search that? They, they just have a lot of ideas. Yeah. It's like, do you open up Gemini and like take a screenshot of something or a picture of the inside of your refrigerator. I don't know. There's just a lot of like input methods where it just sort of could feel overwhelming, but it's like, seems like they're in that position that we're kind of talking about with smarter Siri where it's like, okay, like you've made the promises. This is going to make our lives easier, blah, blah, blah. Right now it's just a bunch of like, you can switch the faces in these photos or, you know, put a rain cloud in the sky behind you.

32:46And like, that was all nice and everything, but like, let's see something like, can they, the screenshot thing? Sure. That would be cool. I'm going to take a screenshot of a recipe and I have literally have the same like spaghetti and meatball recipe from America's test kitchen bookmarked in my Google photos as a like favorite as if it's a photo of my child. Like I just look at it that often. I'm like too cheap to pay for America's test kitchen and can't commit to writing it down. So I don't know. I think there's a, there's a real use case for help me find this thing in a screenshot. I feel like, you know, I work with both of you very closely in the audience.

33:28I might not know what it's like to work with you, but I bookmarked, I favorited a screenshot of a recipe that I make all the time versus there's a photo of a chicken that I can never find is kind of exactly the difference. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That tracks. That tracks. It tells a whole story. I'm just making my spaghetti and meatballs and being like, where's that chicken? I think about the Brooklyn chicken all the time. It's been so long. I'm not sure this chicken is alive anymore. I may have the only record of this sidewalk walking chicken. Like it's important to me that this chicken lives in my memory.

34:08Please send us a note and describe how your photo storage approaches. Describe your personality. Cause I think there's, there's a lot in there. It's a rich zone to unpack. On a scale of like one to chicken. On the scale of, I'm just scrolling for a photo of a chicken endlessly. I swear it's here. Speaking of photos, Allison, And you've been covering what can only be described as the what is a photo apocalypse somewhat closely. You just wrote a piece about the Samsung to sketch a B and put a B in the photo for you. It seems like the Pixel 9 is just going to continue moving inexorably down this path with this feature called add me that will just add you to photos that you're not in.

34:51Yep. That's what it sounds like. I mean, it's only from a leak. It's only from a leak. that was in a YouTube video that got removed. It was like an ad and it was leaked to YouTube and it got removed. But it just feels like Google has to start communicating about how it will keep our information environment somewhat pure as it adds these features that just pollute it more than ever. Yeah, they were really like tiptoeing up to the line, I feel like last year. And it was like, well, this is just something that people have been doing in Photoshop for a long time. And now more people have the tools.

35:32And then I feel like Samsung kicked the door down with sketch to images, like, put a chicken in your photo, put a blimp, like whatever you want to do, you can have it. And then, yeah, I feel like the floodgates are open. And I don't know how aggressive Google will be, like the add me to the photo thing it seems like there could be guardrails on it or it could just be like pure chaos and it's an election year and what could go wrong so many things could go wrong but i also like it just reminds me of this one family portrait i have so like my family's half split in the us versus uh korea and so we all went to korea to get this family portrait except for one cousin who couldn't go because he was a dual citizen and his military service time was coming up because all Korean men have to do military service before they're 30.

36:26And he's just like, I'm just not going to do it. So he had to get photoshopped into the family photo. Oh, no. And if you look at it from a distance, you can't tell that he's been photoshopped in. But if you look up close, you're like, well, lighting on his hair is wrong. Coming from a different angle. You can really like you can just he's just textually not the same as everybody else. Yeah. So you can tell you can tell. And it's just like this huge family portrait and Steve, who's like been photoshopped in. So like, I don't know. Not really, because we can all tell he's not there. So it's sort of like, I don't know.

37:04I feel like my auntie would love to have him in this sort of situation. But I also, you know, having aunties with the power to just add you into anything, that seems also dangerous. It's not like an AI add me feature, at least from the ad that we see. It's like a compositing feature, like a very manual compositing feature where you take a photo and you leave space for literally yourself in the photo. And then someone else holds the camera and it shows you the old photo and you like go stand where you would have been. And then you take a photo and it stitches all the photos together. So it's very manual in its way.

37:46I'm sure there's AI in the background to handle the stitching and alignment and probably the textures and colors and lighting. Give you too many fingers. Yeah. But the idea that it's going to, it's not like deep faking you to put you in the photo. It's taking another photo of you in the same space and then like making a composite, which is still weird. Yeah. It's one of those features that like as a parent now, I'm like, oh, I completely get that. Like best take where it's like you try and take a picture where there's more than two toddlers in it. Like, forget it. Nobody's going to have a good time.

38:24But then it's like, oh, you have all this data and you can just kind of like AI it together into one photo that looks right. So like you get to be in the photo even though you took the photo thing. I'm like, yeah, I'm following along with that. I get that. So it's basically so you never have to ask someone, oh, hey, do you mind taking a photo of us? No, you have to ask them that, but in a much more complicated and ethically challenged way. No, I mean, like, it's in your group. It's in your group. It would be in your group. So, like, yeah, like, you two would take a photo, and then I would take the photo of you two, and then I would hand one of you the phone, and I would go stand next to where you had been standing, and you would take another photo, and the pixel would composite those photos.

39:10together. So it looks like all three of us are standing there. I hate talking to strangers and asking them to take a group photo for me and my group. So this is really going to help me not grow as a person and not talk to strangers more is basically - Oh, see, I love being asked that question because then everyone's like, oh, you know what you're doing, which is great. Oh, people don't know what they're getting into. I'm like, so you've got the Pixel phone. Tell me about your choices here. They're like, who is this lady? the second someone hands you a phone and you turn it to landscape they're like oh my god

39:50but even that's weird like even the thing i'm describing where it's pretty manual right it's not just ai deepficking you but you have to you're making a composite photo what is a photo like it's not a moment in time that that moment quite literally never happened and we're all gonna we're going to pass it off as a photo and i've been thinking about this parents thing because allison every time you write about it you put it in there like the experience of being a parent is just trying to is is like i would like a statistical average of this moment in time that makes me feel good right it's like the goal of like kid photography yeah the reality is too scary yeah you're like if i could just round off the edges and be like this felt great at several moments throughout this day.

40:32Right. Like that would be fine. I don't actually need a pixel perfect recreation of this moment in time. And it's kind of weird. Like that is sort of the goal. And I understand in particular, my parents want that. But it's right next to, are you showing somebody an image of a thing that actually happened? Or are you just creating an illustration? And is that illustration like in the age of influencers on Instagram, is that illustration going to lead to all kinds of weird outcomes about what people's expectations of their own experiences should be like because they don't know they're looking at something fake.

41:06And the entire ecosystem, we talked about the show in the context of like the images of the Trump assassination attempt. The entire ecosystem of validating these images, saying what's real, what's not, which ones are AI, which ones aren't, is just not ready. Like we've talked about it a lot. There are initiatives and alliances and there's labels on meta platforms that are being applied seemingly randomly. But none of it works. No one trusts any of it. And we're just barreling towards this future of completely synthetic images coming off these phones. And I just don't – it doesn't seem like any of the companies give a shit.

41:46Yeah, I feel like there's this just shared understanding we have, especially with a phone camera. It's like you just pointed at a thing. You were there. You took a picture. It happened. You see it on Instagram. It's like, we just have this shared understanding of like, yes, that was a thing that happened exactly, you know, like more or less as we saw it. We all understand that people pose for photos with big hats on in front of gorgeous landscapes or whatever. But yeah, we're just like coming straight at that moment of like, okay, we're going to have to start asking some different questions when you're scrolling through Instagram or just like shifting your mindset.

42:25And it's not even like when I did the sketch to image, I did, you know, mess with a bunch of photos, added cats and pirate ships and like nonsense to them. And I posted a bunch to my Instagram like grid in a post. And I went through the requirements they have for like when you need to add an AI tag. And it didn't even meet them. It was like, you can, you know. It was like something about it was like my own personal photo and I wasn't – the way it had manipulated it was like, it's kind of up to you. You know, put a tag on there, don't, whatever. Like, okay. That's fine. It's all fine. Well, see, the other thing I've noticed a lot of is even just the basic AI features in phones now.

43:17They're overcorrecting and oversharpening. And this is beyond like it looks bad. it's like if you zoom in too far on a lot of modern smartphone photos now you will see that the text is all ai wonky and like signs in the background because ai has tried to denoise and sharpen and you've gotten some weird stuff like really small faces far away and a lot of smartphone photos now look incredibly distorted and demonic because there's like three pixels and it's like well what if i put a face here and it's like i don't really know what a face looks like yet So here's a face, a vaguely face-shaped denoised thing.

43:52I think Samsung phones are more egregious with this than iPhones, but they're all doing it to varying degrees. And that is already confusing people. They're like, these photos are AI generated. And it's like, you're not wrong, but you're also not right. Like that moment in time did happen. And then, you know, a smartphone interpreted this demon face instead of just not having information there. It's weird when it kind of comes to the surface where, what was the photo of the lady trying on a wedding dress? Where, yeah, in the mirror, she's like making two different poses. And like everybody lost their minds and it turned out to be like it was accidentally in panorama mode or something like that.

44:36But just even that is like, you know, this stuff has been going on behind the scenes and just sort of like doing everything it can with that data to make a photo that it thinks you will like. And then when it kind of goes sideways and is obvious, then it's a real weird moment of like, no, yeah, actually your phone's been doing this. Like you just it just didn't look like a demon until right this moment. Yeah, I think there's going to be some moment where the industry, probably not the industry, governments, the EU, they're always doing stuff. They're going to say, if you enable these features, you have to hard watermark these photos as being partially generated by AI.

45:25Because if we don't get all the way there, then we're going to end up in this extremely weird moment where only professionals with like cryptographic signatures and their DSLRs uploading directly to Getty are the source of any truth. And I don't think that's that doesn't seem sustainable. Right. Like only if you buy this one like a camera and you have a contract with Reuters can your photos be trusted. like$10 ,000 camera. Yeah. It just doesn't seem that doesn't seem like what anybody wants. I'm, I'm hopeful that like consumers correct this first, but I suspect that some government somewhere is going to have to make a rule and people are going to have to comply.

46:11Cause we're just headed every time. And I'm, I know the Google people are going to yell at me because every time I'm like the, what is a photo apocalypse is here because of some Google feature. They're like, no, this is just what people want. And I'm like, but people also want sugar. we want a lot of cigarettes like what do you want me to do it always does feel like they have the best case scenario in mind that humans are not goblins who do horrible things to each other sometimes they're like oh no everyone will use it in the way that we intend which is the nice way and it's just like no yeah you only need one one jerk you only need one jerk to ruin everything uh look around uh all right other reviews uh v you reviewed the galaxy watch ultra this week what's uh yes yes what kind of what kind of apple watch is it a good one or a bad one it's it's an apple watch ultra that's sure that sure is what it is but like i actually what it really is is that like if you took the apple watch ultra and drew it from memory that's the samsung galaxy watch ultra or if you like took the apple font it's It's like the Apple Watch Ultra 2, but like in an Android font is just basically what you're doing with this.

47:24It's there's just I was writing the review and then I was like, you know what? It's actually just expedient if I tell you what's different and bullet point everything that is the same because there's too many things that are the same. And then I started doing the major things that are the same. And then I was like, oh, but then there's this and then there's this. And then there's like all these tiny little features that only a psycho like me would know and remember are on each of the watches are there. Like, oh, you can run against your last race performance if you're a runner. Yeah, Apple did that in WatchOS 9.

47:53And now it's here on the Samsung. And, like, why is it here on the Samsung? Because I don't know it was on Apple. They have an orange shortcut button that is the quick button on Samsung and the action button on the Apple Watch. It's the same thing, just in a different font. And that's, like, you could sum up the watch as that. And also it's a squircle. And I don't like it. I had mixed feelings about the squircle going in, and then after two weeks of wear, I don't like the squircle. It is just too chunky on my wrist. I can fit three chopsticks into the gap between the watch and my wrist, and it's just a chonker.

48:34It's a very chunky boy and so orange. The Apple Watch Ultra was orange. orange this is so radioactively biohazard orange it's a little upsetting how orange it is it's it's i don't have it on me right now but it looks like a halloween watch i actually ended up appreciating the regular galaxy watch 7 which i am wearing right now a whole lot more because i was like oh it doesn't hurt me to wear it because it's just too big it's too big for my wrist and like the Apple Watch Ultra is also big for my wrist. I can stick a bunch of stuff in here. There's like a gap. But something about it being a square just made it a lot harder for me to wear.

49:17When I was testing the sleep apnea feature, it was just like, nope, we can't get readings from you. So I actually had to wear the other one to get the readings and test that feature out. So it was, it makes it sound bad, but it's actually a really great Android watch. I would say it's one of the best Android watches that are available, I just, there's a little part of me that hurts that Samsung decided to make an Apple Watch in order to create this excellent Android watch. It just felt wrong. It felt wrong to me because I truly do love how weird and unique the Samsung smartwatches have been with their rotating bezels and just Samsung being weird about how it does health stuff.

49:57The ages metric is just completely bonkers. I don't understand why it's there. I was definitely going to ask you about this. By the way, you said age and that stands for advanced glycation end products. Have they yet told you what that means? So you can there's there's a whole like informational section that you can read and the Samsung Health app about what it is. And it's basically measuring compounds when fats and sugars in your blood oxidize. How is it doing this? Samsung won't say. It just says there's a new three-in-one active biosensor with more LED colors and whatnot. And there's a little spectrum, and it goes from low to high.

50:38And if you're low, I guess you're metabolically younger than your age. And if you're high, I guess you're not your metabolic age. They're measuring this through the skin? Yes. Are they? They're not, like, pricking you. The watch isn't, like, taking your blood. No, everything is non-vasive. And there's not, like, a chemical sensor. it's like in your sweat they're just doing the thing that everyone does they're just shining light into your skin and based on like how it reflects back they're just telling you things that have not been fda cleared it's very experimental like i did not know what this this actual feature was so you know when i was getting briefed on it i went up to samsung and i'm like so what is this and they were basically like well we have this new sensor so we thought why not throw this also in here?

51:23This is the most Samsung answer of all time. And I was like, oh, okay. So like, how do you intend people to use it? And they're like, actually, we don't know. Like, we just kind of want to see how people use it. And so a lot of the new features are quote unquote AI powered and you're getting these AI insights and they're telling me things that I don't know what to do with because on the one hand, the watch was like, hey, you have not been consistent with your sleep, little lady. You should work on that. And then I refresh the app and it's like, great job staying consistent with your sleep schedule.

51:55And I was just like, so which is it? Which is it? Which is it? I had one night where I didn't like have my sleep schedule completely perfect. So I guess that's what it was reacting. That's not helpful. And then the age is metric. They're like, well, if you want to improve your score, I'm smack dab in the middle. So I don't know. I guess that means I'm my age metabolically. Who knows? Wait, I just wait. Can I just stick with the age thing for one second? So they have a metric called age. which I think most people know what a metric called age is meant to measure which is your age yes right that's a well-known label for a thing uh and then it measures first of all let me just quote your own review back to you V yes meanwhile the age metric is baffling is what you have written here yes it is baffling so then it it's shining a light through your wrist and then somehow from what it the reflections of that light it is tracking how protein and fat are oxidized by sugar and then telling you whether that's a low medium or high and then they're saying that is something called age and i just want to point out how deeply meaningfully confusing that is it's your metabolic age so they love to do these things get out of But there's no – but it's like a new metric.

53:16Is this a metric that exists in the literature? It is a metric that exists in research, and scientists are studying it. But in a consumer watch, it means nothing. It means absolutely nothing in a consumer watch. So it tells me that I'm kind of in the medium, neither low or high, in the yellow section, so to speak. and it's like, okay, so to improve your ages metric, here's what you do. Does it know how old you are? Yeah, you do. I did put my, like, demographic information in. So presumably if you're, it's, is it all related to your actual age? Like if you're green, is your metabolic age younger than your actual age?

53:59Yes, that's basically what they're telling you. This is the idea. That's so messed up. This is the idea. Okay, and then how do they. Allison, it's not messed up. It means nothing. It means nothing. So it doesn't have to be messed up. It's just baffling. It makes no sense. I like new metrics. I'm just trying to understand this one. So someone somewhere is like, a 25-year-old has a metabolism of X. And if you tell us you're 25 by shining a light from a smartwatch into your wrist, we can tell you if you're old. This is kind of a new thing that they're doing in wearables. It's not just Samsung. Basically, Aura recently did a thing where it's like, we can tell you what your cardiovascular age is and whether it's aligned with your physical age or not um and so there's just like this obsession with telling you whether you are like physically speaking aligned with expectations for your actual age or whether you're quote-unquote physically physiologically younger than your actual age or older there's a lot of people in silicon valley who are shrinking the blood of the young in order to live forever and i'm not trying to draw a straight line to the galaxy watch ultra i'm just saying there's a path perhaps a winding path there is but it's i do it's i do not want a smart ring to tell me if my heart is dying faster than i am listen listen listen there are there are health nuts who want this information i don't necessarily think it's actually good for their mental health to have this information but the app was just basically like, hey, so here's how you can improve your ages index, a metric that means absolutely nothing.

55:39And you'll never guess what the advice is because it's to eat healthy, sleep well, and exercise. So I'm just like, oh, thanks. It's always that last one it gets you. Never. It's always that last one. All right. Like all Samsung devices, all this works best if you're in the Galaxy ecosystem, right? Yes. I'm assuming none of it works than iPhone. And what gets worse if you have a Pixel or you have a OnePlus? Well, would you like to have your EKGs and AFib detection? You will not get that unless you have a Galaxy phone. Would you like to know if you have sleep apnea? You will not get that unless you have a Galaxy phone.

56:17Because that requires the Samsung Health Monitor app, which is separate from Samsung Health, meaning you're just not going to get that. And some of the AI features are Galaxy phone only as well, which actually I think that's great for you because the AI was very hit or miss for me. And all the advice it gave me, it would be like, hey, your ages is not ideal. Exercise more. And then the AI was like, you're exercising a little too much. You should rest because it's affecting your sleep. And also you're sleeping well and not well at the same time. So it's like, cool. Great. Thanks. I feel like it's a big ask to be like, you need a new watch and a new phone.

56:59And a new ring and all of that stuff. So I did last week, we asked listeners to send us a note if they were all in on the Samsung ecosystem. I'm just going to guess and say that if I asked listeners to send us notes about why they were all in on the Apple ecosystem, we would crash the internet. Right? Like we would just get a lot. I, I like say in a breath, like, I don't think CarPlay is very good. And emails for days, man, all day long. People are like, how dare you? Uh, we asked for galaxy ecosystem users. We got two emails. Um, just putting out there. So one person, Sean, uh, thank you, Sean, for emailing.

57:42Uh, they wrote in, they're upgrading from a fold four to a fold six. Um, which is, you know, great. Uh, they're doing it because the, the Fold 4 broke, the warranty on the devices cashed, and they found a way through the cell phone warranty to get a Fold 6. Yeah. Right? They tried to use the licensed Samsung repair company, You Break, I Fix, that costs money. So then they tried to use their Amex warranty. They were denied. Then Amex called Samsung. They said no. And then they went to cell phone insurance, which they had, and that replaced them with Fold 6. So that is one way to stay in the Samsung ecosystem is a nightmare repair journey because the seals are fold for Brooke.

58:26I would not say this is the type of email we get when we ask why people stay in the Apple ecosystem. So that's one. We got another one. Thank you so much for emailing from Israel. This one says, you asked to hear from a Galaxy ecosystem user. I am that user, which is great. Truly appreciate that line. They wrote to us, I'm typing this in my Galaxy Tab S8 Ultra. I upgraded from Z Fold 4 to Z Fold 6. I use the tablet form factor much more than the phone fold factor, which means they have both a Galaxy tablet and they are constantly using their phone in tablet mode. This is the most Android tablet usage I've ever heard of in my entire life.

59:04That's incredible. Whatever you do, everyone's like, that's 90 % of the usage. They have a Galaxy Watch 5 Pro, and they're waiting on their Galaxy Watch Ultra. and then they have four TVs including a frame TV, their washer and dryer, Samsung. They have the air dresser, the fridge, the oven, a robot vacuum, a smart things hub, a Blu-ray player, you're my people and then it says, and something else I'm forgetting, I'm sure. Are they Korean? And then at the end it says, my husband uses an iPhone and an iPad. Oh, wow. There's a case study. So like, my family. I just want to say one, thank you. I love this.

59:43I'll just I'll I'll write back but you've neglected to say why you have chosen so I would love to know why and if anyone else is out there and wants to send us a note with their list and why I'm dying to read them because we know so much about the Apple ecosystem and how people feel about it trust me we know so much you are not quiet I'm dying to know how people and other ecosystems feel about it and it's like really interesting to get these notes so keep writing in I'm very curious that said my husband uses an iphone ipad is very funny like deeply funny yeah that's there's something going on i love it someone is very excited about rcs oh my gosh oh that's so good yeah i mean look there's a bunch of samsung devices in this house somehow i've ended up in the lg think q ecosystem because that's our washer and dryer and fridge oh boy god only knows why and now i'm like man i better i got an update the other i got a notification the other day that uh new songs for summer were available for the washer and dryer and i was like yes this is the dream oh my god wait wait songs for your washer and dryer to play every quarter lg uh sends new little icons for the seasons and then issues new like songs this is why they couldn't make phones anymore they've like we have to divert those resources to the washer and dryer There's 50 engineers with Casio keyboards being like, and once a quarter they send them to me.

1:01:16And it's great. I truly love it. This is incredible. We can't wrap up the Samsung conversation without talking about Saturday Samsung. Saturday Samsung. So if you don't know, this is what we have started calling Samsung's relentless attempts to sell more products, which are all born of the company losing some money. Sales are flat. And they issued an edict saying everyone had to come to work six days a week until they were covered. Crazy. And it's their corporate employees, which means a bunch of suits are sitting around Samsung headquarters on Saturday being like, some are shit. They're not making any – they're the suits.

1:01:57What are they going to do? So it's only weird promotions. So we have covered you get a free TV if you buy a TV, which is amazing. We have covered you get a free TV if you buy a phone. also amazing. You would think it would continue in this vein, but no. Last Saturday, I guess, burst of creativity, and they decided that the best way to market the Galaxy Z Flip in America... would be to say that the Z Flip, it's a folding phone. A little flippy guy is ideal for busy police officers to wear as body cam. That's so Samsung. It's very good. Oh, it's so bad. I have put a folding phone on my shirt. I think I'm safe to say I'm one of the few people who's tried that outside of these police officers.

1:02:50It's a dumb idea. It's just not a good idea. But it just doesn't seem secure. also like where are they don't they wear vests this this doesn't look like they worked so they didn't just like issue them like t-mobile phones they partnered there's a there's a post on samsung's website it's titled samsung technology is helping police authority protect the public safety which is a lot um they partnered with a company called visual labs which is quote a leading body camera solution provider. Capitalism. And then two police departments in Missouri did a pilot program with all of this. They have a customized Z Flip that has like slightly different buttons.

1:03:36The phones can be set to automatically begin recording when the phone detects a pursuit. Or if you're in the car when the emergency lights are turned on and then the video footage is sent to the Visual Labs cloud. Okay. This is all very good. By looking at this, looking at this, that's ridiculous. It's so bad. That is so. Well, get ready, V, because 25 more police departments are going to start wearing Z Flip his body cams. Oh, Lord. Oh. Oh, and I was wrong. There's a partnership with T-Mobile. So they are T-Mobile phones. Like, what do you need the rest of the phone on your person for? Like, you just need a camera.

1:04:18I just like the idea that people are going to flip it open and then make a TikTok. Yeah, yeah. They're going to start doing some dances. Yeah. No, it's not okay. This whole press release is great, but there's just other benefits, which are basically like this phone has a camera in it. So one of the benefits is in addition to their use as body-worn cameras, Z Flip devices can help improve evidence gathering and transparency. No. by clearly documenting details of arrests and other interactions. Absolutely not. There's literally a feature on this phone to draw stuff that wasn't there. Body cameras do not have that.

1:04:59This is such a bad idea. Draw in the drugs. Put the cocaine here. Put the cocaine here in the dash. Yes, the Galaxy Z Flip, quote, the Galaxy Z Flip additionally functions as a digital camera needed for taking pictures of crime scene evidence, an audio recorder for witness interviews, and a personnel locator for tracking the officer's location through GPS. This is just a phone. Like, I just want to be very clear. What they have described is a phone. Have you thought about using a phone? There's a body camera. Incredible. It's very good. Draw the suspect in the bushes. I just want you all to imagine the high fives this Saturday afternoon.

1:05:39There's like, you know, there's like one slice of pizza left in the box. the cheese is getting a little weird and they're like what if we just gave it to cops like you know it was like a lightning bolt moment they were out the door in their cars like we did it day's over sales are up sell 25 25 police departments they sell 25 more phones oh god it's it's very good it is truly very good saturday samsung it never never gets old all right we should take a break we are cruising our way to be way over here we're gonna take a break we'll be right back. Support for this show comes from LinkedIn. When you're a small business owner, your business is on your mind 24-7.

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1:07:26All right, we're back. It's time for the lightning round. As ever, unsponsored. I feel like the rudest thing David did was leave for the week and not pay to sponsored lighting rent. Like honestly, if you're going to leave me hanging, bro, like sponsored by David Pierce, you know what I'm saying? Like set the tone. Sadly, he's still unsponsored. We're still in the market. We get a lot of weird emails from people who are like, I'll do my crypto startup. We're not going to let you do that. Sorry. That's just not going to happen. But if you have a, you know, like a real company and a lot of money, talk to us.

1:08:00someone will talk to you. Not me, that's the other side of the house, but someone will talk to you. Alright, here's how I want to do it later on this week. We have like three topics. Two of them just have a lot of headlines. So I'm just going to read all of the headlines and then we'll like figure out what's going on. The first one though is just one headline and it's our fault. Logitech's new CO, Hanukkah Faber, was on Decoder this week. She's the new CO. She just started like late last year. We had the old CO Brack and Daryl on several times. One of my ideas with Decoder is there's more than five companies in the world, and so we should talk to all the companies and pay attention to them.

1:08:40That generally goes well. And Logitech is one of those companies I think is undercovered. They're just around. You don't think about them very much. And it turned out under Brack and Daryl how Logitech worked was bonkers. He's like, I have 23 direct reports. Everyone's just allowed to do whatever they want. I buy companies. I leave them alone. there's no overlap so everyone have a good time which is how you end up with them buying like 50 headphone companies and they're all just kind of like doing their thing and they're like I wonder if they have a strategy the answer was they do which is leave everybody alone which worked just to whatever extent Bracken leaves Logitech he now works for I think it's called VF Brands they own Vans and Supreme and the North Face so the guy who ran Logitech is now the CEO of Supreme incredible we're going to see how that goes I'm going to try to get them back to be like, so supreme.

1:09:29That's the whole thing. And they have a new CEO, Hanukkah, who came from Unilever and Procter & Gamble. She has this background in consumer goods and marketing. Really interesting. And I was like, are you going to change this wacky corporate structure? And that was what I thought Decoder was going to be about. Truly, that's what I thought we were going to talk about. And then we did talk about that for a while. And then she's like, I want to build a forever mouse. And this keeps happening to me on Decoder where I'm like, what? explain and she's like i want to build a really beautiful mouse it's like very heavy very premium and we'll just do software updates forever and that will be your forever mouse like you'll just have it forever and i'm thinking well i've had this mouse forever right it same right it's like 10 years old are people replacing mice yeah so very confused very confused and i you can hear if you listen to it the transcript reads one way but you actually go and listen to coder it's very you You can, I'm just laughing.

1:10:28Like, I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, there's only two ways to monetize hardware over time. It is subscriptions or it is ads. And she's like, yep, those are the two ways. I'm like, so you're going to do a subscription mouse? And she's like, I am. And I encourage you to go listen to this because I'm just like losing my mind. Like laughing. What am I subscribing to with a subscription mouse? Right. So we, it's AI software. No. What is AI software for my mouse? What, are you going to change the DPI based on what I'm doing? No, no, no, no, no. It's not even that. Like, you were like, here's an idea.

1:11:07No, no, no, it's worse than that. They're putting the buttons on the mouse so that when you see a field, like any text field on your computer, the mouse will do the prompting for you. Absolutely not. So they've already rolled this out in Options Plus. No. No. This is a thing in logic mice today for like newer mice. Why older mice are not allowed to have the software? I didn't even get to because I was just, what? Right? Like you can listen to me like de-wire my brain in this conversation. So I was like, so a mouse? And she's like, yeah, this is how our video conferencing software works. And I was like, but that's a service.

1:11:47This is a mouse. And she's like, yeah, a mouse. Like a beautiful, and I believe she said diamond encrusted mouse. So that was Decoder. These things happen to Mandy Coder all the time. What I was not expecting was the idea of the subscription mouse has just like, it's a news cycle. And it was just like the new CEO riffing. But now there's a full news cycle of launch tech doing subscription lights. Oh, no. And I will tell you, not since like HP was like subscription printers have people been this unhappy about any idea that I've ever heard. I mean. There are YouTubers who are making YouTube videos about it.

1:12:24I've seen TikToks. It's crazy. It's living its own little life. People are throwing away their Logitech mice. No, no. We're not throwing away. This is really going to be my forever Logitech mouse now. I'm never giving it up. I will say the mouse on my other computer there is easily 15 years old. Yeah. You just get one out of a box. It's kind of gross. I'm not saying it's not a little gross. They get disgusting. But you're just in an office. You find one out of a box. Someone put it there. 10 years ago. You can see my thumb sweat. What's up, house? You can see my thumb sweat on this mouth. Vee, stop, it's a radio show.

1:12:59Stop showing people your thumb sweat. You're telling me? It's just, you know. Describe it for the audio listener. Anyway, I will tell you, I rarely, rarely get deeply surprised by what happens on Decoder. It's mostly a show about org charts, as the listeners know. and then every now and again these past couple months the zoom ceo came on and was like we're building ai clones of everyone to put in zoom meetings and again i just encourage you you can just listen to me try to try to respond to that in real time and look i'll take the heat on decoder people are like you're too nice whatever like i'm always trying to be better i'm always trying to ask harder questions just imagine what it's like in real time to be faced with someone being like the future of zoom is ai clones and meetings and you have to like acknowledge that like not die and then formulate a series of follow up questions that make any sense that like tell a little story it's harder than it looks is all I'm trying to say and you have to keep them there and you have to keep them talking it's just much more challenging and subscription wise you can hear me just what are you talking about record scratch so I was not intending to cause a full news cycle about mice.

1:14:20It was truly not my intent, but I hope Logitech doesn't do subscription mice. I tried very hard to be like, I don't think that's a good idea. Please don't. But Logitech has this really interesting problem. It is interesting to think of their big problem, which is if you believe that AI is going to be important, and we've talked about it in this episode, it might be that you just talk to your phone a bunch more, right? And it just does stuff for you. It might be that natural interfaces, natural language interfaces, using the camera's interface, all this stuff, starts to take over from traditional PCs more and more and more.

1:14:57This has been the dream for a long time. There's a reason that Google and Microsoft or everybody else calls AI a platform shift. And if that happens, like, my sales go down. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, if we use desktop computers left and we talk to our phones more or whatever, maybe the, like, PC sales will go down and then my sales go down. And then we just, like, if you're a launch deck, You're like, well, how do I preserve the revenue? And you're like, gold-plated, diamond-encrusted subscription mice. And maybe that's not the right solution. But you can see the pressure. It was a good conversation that I was not expecting just that little bit to resonate as much as it does.

1:15:34That said, we have to find the brother laser printers of mice. Oh, the other thing. There were TikToks about subscription mice, and that put me into people complaining about subscriptions TikTok. and then i got to one where a very nice like young woman was like bitching about her a very nice woman um they got me to one where i think an influencer she was just complaining about her subscription printer and all the comments were like buy a brother laser printer and i was like i did it like the verge has accomplished its goal one thing we stand for yeah yeah buy one piece of it lasts forever i think the bridge stands for that all right so that's lightning round one It feels like we're on a consensus that we're not going to do AI-powered subscription mice.

1:16:17No. Don't like it. Don't want it. No, absolutely not. The idea that your mouse is the one that creates the prompt for open AI is bold. It's an idea that sounds like a mouse wrote it.

1:16:34If you're a diehard options plus ecosystem person, write us a note. All right. So, okay. Here's the other two where I'm just going to read a bunch of headlines for the lightning round. The first, very much related to what we've been talking about with photos, there's just a bunch of deepfake news this week. Everyone knows it's a problem. We know we've got to stop it. And then some people are like, screw it, we're doing it anyway. And by some people, I mean Elon Musk, who posted a deepfake video of Kamala Harris that violates X's own policies about deepfake that were implemented under his ownership.

1:17:08This isn't like there was an old rule that he disagrees with and he's bulldozing it. He made a rule about defakes because everyone knows it's a problem. And then he posted this ad with Harris. It's like Harris's campaign ad with the Beyonce song. But they replaced the voiceover with her saying Biden is too old. Okay. You know, like in many ways, this is just standard political parody. Like if I hired a Kamala Harris impersonator to do this, would it be a problem? I don't know. But if you already have the rule that's like, don't do this, you should not as the owner of the platform do it. So he doesn't care.

1:17:46He doesn't give a shit. But that's where we are, right? It's like already happening. There's already these like weird moments occurring because of just bad faith actors on both sides, in particular one side. But it's already happening. Then here's the rest of the headlines. Microsoft wants Congress to outlaw AI-generated deepfakes. Google tweaks search to hide explicit deepfakes. So if Google deranks your website or knocks your website for having deepfakes on it, especially explicit ones, search won't show them to people anymore. They're just going to go away from search. Congress wants to carve out intimate AI deepfakes, which is basically what you – there's a language conversation here about what you should call these.

1:18:32So you might call these like AI revenge porn. Oh. Revenge porn is like a very loaded word for a lot of reasons. So now we're going to try AI, intimate AI deepfakes. So you carve that out from section 230, right? So that means right now you post stuff to a platform like Facebook or X or Instagram or whatever. Those platforms are not liable for what you post. That's section 230. It makes the internet go around. And they're saying, no, actually, if you allow intimate AI deepfakes, you are now liable for them. And that basically means you have to moderate them. So that's one idea. And then the Copyright Office just issued a huge report on AI and copyright, which they've been working on for quite some time.

1:19:12And their first chapter of this report was about team fakes. And you can read it. It's very long. It's very good. It's very easy to read. We'll link to it in the show notes here. But they were basically like, yeah, copyright law can't do this. We need a new law. This is a disaster. Here's how we think the new law should work. So we're just at this moment where everyone is seeing the problem very clearly. And then lastly, in the Senate, the No Fakes Act has been introduced. It's not close to passing, but yet another bill to ban defix, to regulate defix. So we're at this point now where everybody sees the problem, right?

1:19:47Google as a platform is doing some stuff to stop it. Microsoft as a company is asking Congress to outlaw it. The government is like, we don't have the laws to do it. Some parts of the governments are saying we need to do it. it feels like this is the first big AI regulation that's going to happen. It feels like it's also the first one that has to happen. Deepfake's bad. Deepfake's bad. So, yeah. It's like the Spider-Man pointing at Spider-Man meme. We're like, what's going on? Who's in charge here? Elon Musk is making rules about deepfakes and then not following those rules. Not following them.

1:20:23The government is like, yeah, we don't know. I agree. Deepfake's bad. Especially the ones that are being used to harass people and intimidate people and bully people. Like those are, I think, fully bad. And if you read that Copyright Office report, they're like a lot of our law right now is set up to protect famous people. Like the patchwork of state likeness laws and publicity laws are all basically like if you're a celebrity and Samsung uses you to sell refrigerators, you can't do that. And I say that because that is a real case that happened in our justice system where Samsung made a robot that looked like Vanna White to sell refrigerators.

1:20:59And Vanna White sued Samsung and won because the robot looked too much like Vanna White. Real case. This is a real thing that happened. Oh, my God. And that's like all of our law right now is set up to deal with that problem, which is wonderful. But it's all for famous. You have to be famous enough so that people can be confused. But regular people have no protection because none of them are famous. So the copyright office is saying, no, this problem is going to affect regular people. It's going to affect teenage girls in schools. It already is. It's going to affect teenage boys in schools. It's going to affect everybody.

1:21:29It's if you don't like your teacher and you can defake that, like all of this bullying that can happen with defakes is real. It's happening now. We don't have the laws to stop it. So then you say we could stop it. But that brings you all the way back around to, well, what if I just hire a Trump impersonator to look at a camera and be like, I'm bad. You know, like that is straightforwardly like political speech. It should be protected. The line there is really blurry. And I think we're in for maybe a pendulum swing pretty far in the direction of all of that is not allowed. And then over time, we're going to have to swing it back to, well, you should probably be allowed to hire the Elvis impersonator, right?

1:22:05Like he's dead. Right. But should the Taylor Swift impersonator at the one casino be allowed to act like Taylor Swift? Like probably. how are you going to draw that line? It's pretty unclear right now. What will SNL do at that point? Because then the whole thing is just like, man, I don't envy the people at the copyright office or anywhere just trying to like proactively think about how to deal with this. Because it's a lot easier when it's reactionary, when you're like, oh, bad thing happened. We need to do something. But then to actually think of it in a proactive manner and be like, how are people going to use this?

1:22:41Well, I don't know. we're only as good as the we're only as good as the most unhinged teenage boy in the classroom just thinking up of the most crazy way to use these things I was that boy and don't allow me to have access to computers that was a real mistake the whole time Allison we talk about photos and cameras and device makers all the time Google is changing search to hide explicit deepfakes, Microsoft wants regulations do you see that expressed in the products that they're making at all it's like it's funny that they're kind of like asking for someone to make rules on what they can and can't do and if they don't have the rules they won't stop themselves yeah it's a weird thing of like they're all sort of like well we definitely agree that you know fake bad stuff is bad so but here draw a chicken into your photo or you know it's sort of like there's no agreement between like and we're going to slow down and wait till we've figured this out or you know like have some kind of industry standard that these things are like abiding by it's just sort of like well we're just going to run as fast as we can over here and then like some people will figure out the laws see Allison I told you the blurry bumblebee it absolutely can destroy the fabric of our society you said it wouldn't but it can it all started with the bumblebee I'll just use the no fakes act which I think by the time you listen to this should be in the senate this is basically a reaction to OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson you know the new voice is out with OpenAI, it's actually really impressive in very cool ways.

1:24:37But obviously they made a voice that sounded a lot like Scarlett Johansson. She's really mad. She might sue them. A little kerfuffle. That's a great time for politicians to act. Be like, a kerfuffle? Here's some stuff that I'm doing. So they had a discussion graph last year. They updated it. They have it this year. And now the goal is to give people a federal property right to approve the use of their voice, appearance, or likeness and create liability to people who use their voice, appearance, or likeness without permission. Okay, that's like a lot. But again, SNL exists. Again, like Trump impersonators exist.

1:25:17I sometimes do a British accent. I don't know if I sound like a British person who's real. I think we're probably in for a moment where the pendulum swings way, way too far. And that might be fine. but we just need to like be alert for it because that pendulum swing too far might be appropriate given how damaging deepfakes can be especially for younger people especially in these non-consensual intimate ways but it's also like oh man like you might go you might just add a lot of impersonation along the way and we just like don't know the answer yet but there's a lot of that action happening it seems like the company so that's lightning round one lightning round two sort of related to this last week last week David I'm just going to call David after this He titled the episode, The End of Google as We Know It.

1:25:59And I was like, bro, you just mean search generally. He was like, yeah, I'm going on vacation. He changed it.

1:26:09So we changed it. But we're basically at a moment, and that was the real thesis of last week's episode, is that the entire web and search market is changing. And we keyed that off of Reddit getting Google to pay it to index the site and then blocking everybody else. So there was some backlash to that, right? That's the closing of the open web. So suddenly the only way to search Reddit with a search engine is Google. Weird. That's a weird new outcome that we didn't have before. Microsoft has been blocked. Perplexity is blocked. Reddit CEO Steve Uffman talked to our own Alex Heath this week. He's like, everybody needs to pay me.

1:26:45He's like, Bing, Anthropic, Perplexity, we've all been after them. And then the big quote is, it's a real pain in the ass to block these companies. So he just wants money. And this looks like the future, right? We just want money if you want to build an AI-powered search engine and a crawler site. Similarly, perplexity, which has gotten itself into a lot of trouble, especially showing paywalled content without paying anyone. They're just scraping sites. And a lot of trouble about scraping sites even though it's blocked, which they keep saying, like, you don't know how the web works. And I'm always like, tell me.

1:27:17Tell me how you think it works. And they won't say. but perplexity has started cutting checks to publishers um time dr spiegel which a big german publisher and fortune are in the first batch i assume there will be more i feel like i need to disclose uh opening eye pays our company vox media for its search gpt product you can just put that on the list right opening is paying the atlantic and a bunch of other publishers as well uh new york times is suing opening because it wants more money than it's presumably been offered So like this thing that's like, you've got to pay, search engines have to pay to index our content on the open web is not just like a blip.

1:27:56It's the thing that's happening. Like it is the change that is happening across the industry. Everybody wants to get paid, especially from the new breed of search engines, because everybody made the mistake with Google where they didn't ask for money. And now Google's like, we're doing AI anyway, and no one can turn Google off. Right next to that, I mentioned circle to searches everywhere. And desktop Chrome is getting something that looks a lot like Circle to Search. So you see Google's building AI search-ish experiences right into the browser. And then Chrome is also getting an AI product comparison mode, where if you have a bunch of products open in tabs, Chrome will just synthesize the tabs and build a comparison for you, which is legitimately very cool.

1:28:33And at least you have to load the web pages, which is like a good step. We love that. Yeah. But you see the web is just fully changing. Like whatever you think AI is doing to productivity or workers or whatever, right now at this moment, how we think about the web and in particular search on the web, it's already the past is past. Like it's gone. It's in the rearview mirror. We might only be a little bit far away from it, but it's not coming back. Like, we're just in a mode where you're going to sign up to use a search engine, and maybe we'll have a different set of sources than the next search engine based on the deals they have made, which is going to be really weird.

1:29:15It just strikes me every time, you know, Reddit comes up is that, like, we're racing to have, you know, Google wants to answer your question without you clicking on anything. Chatbots want to answer your question. Or, like, robots can answer your question. But then also, like, Reddit is incredibly valuable. And it's just people talking to people. Like, that's the thing that, you know, we want to get to in search now where I'm like, you know, I have a question about my plant or whatever. It's like, I don't want the AI generated answer. I don't want whatever blurb. Like, I want to read an answer from a person.

1:29:55And it's just strange to me that that's at the center of this, like, what if you could just talk to robots? But the robots need to listen to a person who knows the answer. Yeah. I mean, and Reddit is itself being polluted with AI-generated text. So that's the next turn. And then on top of it, all the new information is a bunch of kids talking to TikTok. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we found out this week that TikTok is one of the biggest customers of OpenAI because they're using all that for the recognition algorithms and sorting. And you're like, oh, this is a weird little circle where there are going to be more silos on the internet than ever before because the open web did not make enough of the people who make the original content enough money.

1:30:44And so, like, no one wants to repeat that. So now it's like, you got to pay us. and like whether that actually comes back to individual redditors who are contributing remains to be seen but reddit itself steve huffin's like i'm just gonna block you like i got my money from google and now everyone else is blocked unless they pay up and i think he can do it because he just needs google like google's gonna send reddit a lot of traffic and that's fine you can block bing and be like pay up or you're dead um and i think eventually they're all gonna end up paying because if you have an ai search product that can't look at reddit i think a lot lot of people are like, well, where's the good stuff?

1:31:18And you're going to, you're just going to end up in a weird loop. We've been covering this a lot. Like we, over a year now, we covered sort of the end of the SEO industry and what that did to the web and all this stuff. Cause we wanted to mark, like, this is what it looks like now. And I didn't, I honestly did not expect it to feel as different as fast as it feels today. Like the, the end of the search era that we knew is I think just firmly here. And you can see even this week, it's just like, here's six more headlines that are just like, here's how it's changing. I keep thinking about a friend who she was buying a new mattress and she's like, I just asked Claude.

1:31:56Yeah. Claude did it for me. I was like, yeah. Which is the, oh, which one is that perplexity? It's anthropic. It's anthropic. Yeah. Oh God. And it was just like, my eyes get wider. I'm like, put the little mattressreview.com that it was scraping. You know, I don't know. That's a whole minefield too. My husband does it. My husband is like an avid chat GPT as a search engine user before it even had this project. And he's been using Gemini and all the other stuff. And he'll be like, oh yeah, I just asked that. This is how I built some code for this. And this is how I like, because Google just doesn't give him the answers that he needs anymore.

1:32:33And so I've just been watching them just completely shift how they use the internet over the last year and I'm just doing the same things that I have always done and I just am like this feels like getting left behind maybe I should try using it maybe I should try using it more in the ways that they do but I just run into the same problem as you do Allison where I'm just like I just I don't like the source that they pull from in these things so I'm just like I don't trust randoblogsite.com give me the other ones I started randoblogsite.com Not all the randovlogsite.com. Respect your elders. Hey, that was my first website.

1:33:16You know, I've been using ChatGP for Olympics trivia because I assume that, you know, like, it's like, what's this cable on the fencer? It's like, that answer has been the same for a long time. Right. And so you're just like, I have ChatGP mapped the action button on my iPhone 15 Pro, and it works. Like, it just delivers an answer to you. And you're like, I don't even know that's right. Right. It's close enough. Yeah, and the stakes are low. Yeah, it's part of the scoring system. I hope that's true. You're not judging the fencing. Exactly. Judges are not using that. Actually, we have a big feature we're on this week about AI being used to judge gymnastics.

1:33:54You should go read that. It's very good. I mention that because we are way over. Thank you. We got to wrap this up. Thank you for indulging in Chaos Furchcast to be announced. That was great. it was fun it was good times David if you're listening you're dead to me you never come back that's the way it goes like a goldfish over here alright that's it that's the Vergecast that was really fun thank you for listening and that's it for the Vergecast this week hey we'd love to hear from you give us a call at 866-VERGE-11 the Vergecast is a production of the Verge and Vox Media Podcast Network Our show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James.

1:34:37That's it. We'll see you next week.

1:34:42Support for this show comes from S.C. Johnson. We've all been there. Choosing not to wear your new white shoes because there's a 10 % chance of rain. Bending awkwardly over the tiny coffee table to enjoy a sip of your latte. Not ordering the red sauce. Those feelings of dread are what we call stainxiety. But now, you can break free from your Stainsiety with Shout's Triple Acting Spray that has stain-fighting ingredients to remove a huge variety of stains, so you can live in the moment and clean up later. Just breathe and shout with Shout Triple Acting Spray. Learn more at ShoutItOut.com.